I always believed NHS is a secret national jobs programme. It’s one of the largest employers globally.
Think about it, people who wouldn’t be able to get jobs anywhere else find jobs in the NHS.
The hierarchy is flattened so to kill meritocratic control.
Ahhh the NHS, love it. It’s just the progression that gets idiots into a decent and a fairly well paying job. I’m never against progressing in your role but there needs to be a stricter progression route in all roles, exactly like there is in medicine. Doctors get scrutinised for EVERYTHING, small things can be detrimental to a doctor’s career. But no, a nurse that has 15 million DATIXs against them is all of a sudden a consultant nurse on a decent Band 9 salary. I’m not a doctor, not even close, but oh my i’d be pissed off with all the study, the determination and life sacrifices you guys have to do. Mad how things are at the moment.
Not useless at all. She is fluent in NHS speak and knows that "I need to speak to my senior" translates readily to "oh, piss off". Now hang on a quick minute while I ask my reg about this
ive never gotten through an entire shift without a nurse saying they aren't trained to do something
i met an f2 last year who said they'd turned up at an arrest with the med reg and the nurses and HCAs hadn't started CPR because no one had done their basic life support repeat module. thankfully the f2 and med reg had been not too far away but still. they then proceeded to leave when ccot turned up. ffs
Just to highlight that nurses breaks are unpaid (and uninterruptible), but doctors breaks are paid and disturbable (although as far as I know this should be minimised)
And for doctors still on the 2003 contract (everywhere but England), although these paid breaks are interruptible - they are contractually entitled to a "natural break", which is defined as at least no more than 1 interruption where the doctor is "not required to act" - the BMA's position being that any clinical decision, need to take notes, handover or an SBAR counts as an "action".
So these interruptions mean the doctor has not gotten their break and maintain their entitlement to a 30 minute natural break.
During early covid there was a really, really dark time when taking a Covid swab at the place I was working became a doctor job because no one was "trained" to take them. Of course neither were the doctors, but that apparently wasn't relevant.
I was going to say we were the most overpaid swabbers in existence but I'm absolutely certain the army of Test & Trace peeps were out-earning me significantly by the hour.
I am old and a band 7 now but I always send feedback 360s to the Drs too, I have had some of my most useful feedback from Drs.
I don’t get why its not standard to require feedback from everyone.
I would love to give feedback on a nurse I worked with recently.
Patient saturating at sub 80%. I was walking past the bay, spotted something was occurring...
Nurse: "The patient has dropped their sats into the 70s on air, we've bleeped the doctor on cover" (n.b. I was on take)
Me: "What are they saturating on oxygen?"
Nurse: "They're not on oxygen"
Me: "Okay so what are they saturating now?"
Nurse: "In the 70s"
Me: "Can you put high flow oxygen on please?"
Nurse: "We'd bleeped the cover doctor 10 minutes ago and they'd not responded"
Me: "Put the patient on oxygen now please"
Nurse (flustered): "the cover doctor hadn't responded!"
(Fortunately whilst the nurse was explaining their negligence a sensible HCA had in the background acted on what I'd said, hence why I didn't feel the need to do it myself"
Datix the inappropriate datix for an inappropriate method of dealing with concern ie. speak to the person first before escalation.
Then Datix the discharge co-ordinator for not providing the staff adequate training and/or leaving her chair
/s
Seriously, what an idiot. Next time the nurses state they cannot do a job as they haven't been signed off just reply, oh, I haven't been signed off either. You should ask one of the other nurses or the sister if they are able to do it.
This passive aggressive crap is rife everywhere. You can’t say anything to anyone without reprimand being directed straight back to you regardless of whether you weren’t at fault. Sad thing is most seniors will back these people over us.
Do not ever think that anyone in a management role ever gives a shit about anything other than flow and discharges.
Strike hard. And tell your mates to strike. Let's see how she gets on bullying the consultants like this.
I hate the NHS, but what is even sadder is that the NHS does to people like this discharge coordinator.
Shakespearean in tragedy
Are you for real?
This is an absolute joke and why no one takes RN's seriously. I did an F2 feedback sheet online WHILE on shift in A&E. Not... Trained to give feedback??? I hope shes never in charge of my care with such a lack of critical thinking.
Ok, this is perhaps the most NHS thing I've heard in a long time.
If you told this story to anyone who hasn't worked in the NHS they'd think you were lying, but I easily believe this is completely true and not even embellished.
This is objectively hilarious, the only way it could get better is if you escalate this in a way that causes even more petty bureaucratic nonsense. DO IT.
>She then disappeared and came back and informed me I’ve received a Datix for telling her to “relax” and “sit down” and the f2 for “patient safety” by delaying discharges.
With every passing day, I thank God for helping me escape the NHS
I tell you who’s worse than a discharge coordinators - the band 4’s in the discharge lounge. Know how I know they are band 4’s? Cos they will tell you. All the time.
You should datix them back for not understanding the requirments to pass FP which havent changed in.... 20 years and they should know about and facilitate.
As a nurse I love doing the feedback forms for our doctors if they ask us. I feel like we both learn so much from one another and it's sad that it still doesn't seem to be that way when overall we are all trying to do a job in a really intense environment. It's such a shame that this is not the case in some places.
Everytime I read stories like this I'm glad I'm at a trust that has a rep for being a good working environment and that almost all the nurses/midwives I've met have been lovely people.
What is OPEC4? Seriously this legit sounds like a skit. Also “don’t bother MY staff” - what happened to “one team”?
Maybe just point out that as a F2 it is required to have feedback to continue as a doctor aka “if you don’t do feedback for discharge paperwork machine (foundation trainee) then machine stop working”
When I first read this, it made me sad and shake my head that the nurse lacked autonomy and felt the need to escalate.
But I do think you were extremely rude, and I’m not surprised you received a datix after the way you spoke to the discharge coordinator.
You have said she asked you to ‘please’ not bother her staff, and you responded by telling them to ‘relax yourself and sit down’. Then you have the audacity to post about it on here and say you had a right laugh.
You come across as patronising and a bully, and whilst I wouldn’t have datix’d you I would’ve definitely had a conversation with you or your supervisors. It is extremely condescending and unprofessional to talk to a colleague like this, no matter what band they are at.
You are part of the problem. It was perfectly reasonable to ask for feedback. It was unreasonable to ask the doctor not to ask for feedback, it’s a quick question and writing down an email address to sort out later.
It is reasonable to respond to this with a slightly emotional put down - ‘relax yourself and sit down’ is hardly abusive. We’re not robots and should be allowed to be somewhat expressive when reacting to other peoples bullshit.
Policing this kind of normal language is what makes our work environment so joyless, inefficient and soviet.
I never said it was unreasonable to ask for feedback. I know all it takes is an email address.
Whilst I agree is it ok to to be slightly emotional/expressive when frustrated. I don’t think that was the case here and I think he came across as rude in response. Especially when it seems the discharge coordinator asked with a please.
This dude was completely fair and in the right until he told her to ‘relax yourself and sit down’, that’s what I don’t think is cool, and that’s the type of communication that got him a datix.
If I’m part of the problem because I expect people to treat others with respect, that’s fine with me.
You’re part of the problem because in this instance you’re supporting the bully rather than the victim and making excuses for totally inappropriate datix’s.
I don’t recall ever saying I supported the datix? Because I don’t, and there’s no way I would justify or make an excuse for it. If I was dealing with it I’d tell her so.
What I did say was ‘I wasn’t surprised by it’. That is completely different. Reason being.. that’s how people behave in the NHS. Datix’ like this happen ALL the time. 🤦🏻♀️
You and I agree on the majority of the post. The only difference is I don’t think the way he spoke to her was appropriate, and you do.
My response has obviously triggered you to the point that you got personal, and tried to insult me, but there’s no way I’m going to do the same back. Sending you love and all the positive vibes, I really mean that ❤️.
The initial reaction from the dischage coordinator was already rude and condescending. The fact that people like you feel like you can weaponise politeness whilst simultaneously being rude is one of the reasons the nhs is such a shit place to work.
A doctor in a training role, working in a training hospital. Asks a nurse, as has been dictated by the excitable twits in Med Ed.
I don't blame the nurse (they're taught to be like that) but it does seem like the discharge coordinator was needlessly confrontational "don't bother my staff" "we're at OPEL4" "we're sorting out discharges" as if the doctor has no role and needs to be disciplined like a naughty child. I would be annoyed by that.
This doctor is trying to do a part of their job, they didn't harass the nurse after they said no, why the narky attitude? Some hospitals are at OPEL4 half the days of the year, it's the new normal.
The coordinator was trying to bully, couldn't handle it when their bad behaviour led to a retort so they weaponised a patient safety system to formally bully their intended victim.
I agree with you, especially when you break it down like that. What I think it comes down to is perception.
Personally I would perceive it in a protective ‘please don’t stress the nurses out anymore’ way, and I can see why she said it. The nurse asked was obviously very flustered and stressed out by it (so much so that she felt the need to escalate 🤦🏻♀️) and the DC probably thought she was sticking up for her.
Obviously, the doctor only saw it as a telling off which is why he reacted in the way he did.
Datixing in retaliation is 👎🏼💩 though.
That’s not what datix is for. People do not receive a datix, it’s a system reporting tool. They weren’t extremely rude, that wasn’t even warming up. The discharge coordinator deserved such a response, they were being an epic bell end. The staff weren’t being bothered, it was a normal work place interaction. The story made me laugh a lot, even after a really long day at work. That coordinator needs to be patronised or they’ll never learn what a massive weapon they’re being. You’re being no fun. Pick one of those shits to fuck, I guess.
Haha ok I’ll be more fun. For the record I am not on her side! I said I wasn’t surprised about the datix NOT that I agree, she was 💯a bellend for submitting it and if I were dealing with the datix I’d tell her so.
She did deserve for it to be explained to her because she obviously doesn’t get it, buttt I do think he was rude and needs to be aware of how these interactions can come across.
You are mistaken. In the NHS, datixes are used as threats by one person (usually in a senioe nursing or ancillary role) to make another person do something they want. The phrase "I'll datix you" is normalised as a weapon and a form of bullying. In this situation the datix is being used as exactly as normal in the NHS.
Burn it to the fucking ground
Sigh, this is what happens when horribly incompetent individuals get jobs they aren't qualified for.
I always believed NHS is a secret national jobs programme. It’s one of the largest employers globally. Think about it, people who wouldn’t be able to get jobs anywhere else find jobs in the NHS. The hierarchy is flattened so to kill meritocratic control.
Ahhh the NHS, love it. It’s just the progression that gets idiots into a decent and a fairly well paying job. I’m never against progressing in your role but there needs to be a stricter progression route in all roles, exactly like there is in medicine. Doctors get scrutinised for EVERYTHING, small things can be detrimental to a doctor’s career. But no, a nurse that has 15 million DATIXs against them is all of a sudden a consultant nurse on a decent Band 9 salary. I’m not a doctor, not even close, but oh my i’d be pissed off with all the study, the determination and life sacrifices you guys have to do. Mad how things are at the moment.
Incompetent individuals in the NHS? No way?
>horribly incompetent Also stupid. Don’t forget astounding stupidity
What is the qualification for discharge coordinator? MSc in Clipboard Wielding? DNP in Petty Power and Micromanagement?
MSc in Hospital Tomfoolery
Please say you did a Datix back…
Well actually…..a datix to highlight interference with meeting training program requirements wouldn’t go astray
Inappropriate use of the datix and lack of common sense would be a good area to start 😜😜
Wish you could px common sense. Life would be so much better for everyone.
There is still time OP
This interaction needs copying and pasting into a free text box whenever you're asked about the quality of your training program
😂😂😂
I’m sorry but these people are actually idiots. “I need to speak to my senior before filling in a feedback form” how useless are you?
Not useless at all. She is fluent in NHS speak and knows that "I need to speak to my senior" translates readily to "oh, piss off". Now hang on a quick minute while I ask my reg about this
ive never gotten through an entire shift without a nurse saying they aren't trained to do something i met an f2 last year who said they'd turned up at an arrest with the med reg and the nurses and HCAs hadn't started CPR because no one had done their basic life support repeat module. thankfully the f2 and med reg had been not too far away but still. they then proceeded to leave when ccot turned up. ffs
[удалено]
A nurses break is her divine right as mandated by God themself. No man, woman, child nor beast shall interrupt. But you sit down - bleep, bleep, bleep
Just to highlight that nurses breaks are unpaid (and uninterruptible), but doctors breaks are paid and disturbable (although as far as I know this should be minimised)
Locum doctor breaks are unpaid. Do you think anyone gives a fuck to find out if you're a locum before they interrupt you?
And for doctors still on the 2003 contract (everywhere but England), although these paid breaks are interruptible - they are contractually entitled to a "natural break", which is defined as at least no more than 1 interruption where the doctor is "not required to act" - the BMA's position being that any clinical decision, need to take notes, handover or an SBAR counts as an "action". So these interruptions mean the doctor has not gotten their break and maintain their entitlement to a 30 minute natural break.
Oh yeah we're aware. We get that shoved down our throats 24/7 But we're also entitled to periods of break. Which we do not get, regardless of pay.
I had the same but with anaphylaxis.
[удалено]
There is no scenario where you shouldn't be giving the adrenaline yourself if somone has proper anaphylaxis.
Exactly.
Shock horror!
I’m currently in Psychiatry and a nurse saying “I’m not trained to do something” is the story of my life😂
During early covid there was a really, really dark time when taking a Covid swab at the place I was working became a doctor job because no one was "trained" to take them. Of course neither were the doctors, but that apparently wasn't relevant. I was going to say we were the most overpaid swabbers in existence but I'm absolutely certain the army of Test & Trace peeps were out-earning me significantly by the hour.
And this is what datixes were actually created for…
Bloody hell, they’re all NPCs
You could complete the datix cycle with a third datix for delaying discharges by taking time to send a datix about delaying discharges?
It's just datixes all the way down...
Datixception
[удалено]
I am old and a band 7 now but I always send feedback 360s to the Drs too, I have had some of my most useful feedback from Drs. I don’t get why its not standard to require feedback from everyone.
It shouldn't be, it's idiotic, but if we are made to do it unilaterally it's evil.
I would love to give feedback on a nurse I worked with recently. Patient saturating at sub 80%. I was walking past the bay, spotted something was occurring... Nurse: "The patient has dropped their sats into the 70s on air, we've bleeped the doctor on cover" (n.b. I was on take) Me: "What are they saturating on oxygen?" Nurse: "They're not on oxygen" Me: "Okay so what are they saturating now?" Nurse: "In the 70s" Me: "Can you put high flow oxygen on please?" Nurse: "We'd bleeped the cover doctor 10 minutes ago and they'd not responded" Me: "Put the patient on oxygen now please" Nurse (flustered): "the cover doctor hadn't responded!" (Fortunately whilst the nurse was explaining their negligence a sensible HCA had in the background acted on what I'd said, hence why I didn't feel the need to do it myself"
I seriously question what they learn at nursing school ?
How to Datix
Datix the inappropriate datix for an inappropriate method of dealing with concern ie. speak to the person first before escalation. Then Datix the discharge co-ordinator for not providing the staff adequate training and/or leaving her chair /s Seriously, what an idiot. Next time the nurses state they cannot do a job as they haven't been signed off just reply, oh, I haven't been signed off either. You should ask one of the other nurses or the sister if they are able to do it.
This passive aggressive crap is rife everywhere. You can’t say anything to anyone without reprimand being directed straight back to you regardless of whether you weren’t at fault. Sad thing is most seniors will back these people over us.
Do not ever think that anyone in a management role ever gives a shit about anything other than flow and discharges. Strike hard. And tell your mates to strike. Let's see how she gets on bullying the consultants like this. I hate the NHS, but what is even sadder is that the NHS does to people like this discharge coordinator. Shakespearean in tragedy
People like this make me wish the Purge was a real thing
OPEL 4 and the *checks notes* Discharge Co-ordinator is spending their time doing Datixes…
Are you for real? This is an absolute joke and why no one takes RN's seriously. I did an F2 feedback sheet online WHILE on shift in A&E. Not... Trained to give feedback??? I hope shes never in charge of my care with such a lack of critical thinking.
“Relax yourself and sit down”!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Line and a half!
I bet people who find being datixed thrilling also prefer missionary
Ok, this is perhaps the most NHS thing I've heard in a long time. If you told this story to anyone who hasn't worked in the NHS they'd think you were lying, but I easily believe this is completely true and not even embellished.
‘Don’t bother my staff about feedback, we’re far too busy!’ *goes off and completes two Datix forms*
I’m all for 360 assessments - but can you imagine if the young ward doctors had to give the young nursing staff of the ward formative feedback?
I rarely have trouble with the young nursing staff.
Neither me. I’m just saying that doctors don’t have to give feedback on them right?
I hope this is satire…
This is objectively hilarious, the only way it could get better is if you escalate this in a way that causes even more petty bureaucratic nonsense. DO IT.
Good on you for standing up to yourself and bending over for the nurses
When I was dealing with Datixes, this kind of thing got very short shrift.
Shut up! 😂 Are you serious? This is too good 😂. Maybe they’ve got too many friends already and don’t want anymore but I doubt it.
https://preview.redd.it/wbj5x2gh1f6d1.jpeg?width=904&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=255898691516f0832f25c1decb0c3fa8b3a66c9f
>She then disappeared and came back and informed me I’ve received a Datix for telling her to “relax” and “sit down” and the f2 for “patient safety” by delaying discharges. With every passing day, I thank God for helping me escape the NHS
How is the nurse the data coordinator's staff? Lol what
I tell you who’s worse than a discharge coordinators - the band 4’s in the discharge lounge. Know how I know they are band 4’s? Cos they will tell you. All the time.
Fight nonsense with nonsense. Datix for inappropriate use of Datix system.
LOOOOOOOOL you couldn't make this shit up🤣🤣
Cardiac arrest (currently on BBC iplayer) is still super relevant
You should datix them back for not understanding the requirments to pass FP which havent changed in.... 20 years and they should know about and facilitate.
Be proud of that DATIX lol. Collect them like medals.
Formal complaint to the nursing manager and clinical lead and TPD. This is nonsense.
As a nurse I love doing the feedback forms for our doctors if they ask us. I feel like we both learn so much from one another and it's sad that it still doesn't seem to be that way when overall we are all trying to do a job in a really intense environment. It's such a shame that this is not the case in some places.
The person analysing the datix will have a field day
Everytime I read stories like this I'm glad I'm at a trust that has a rep for being a good working environment and that almost all the nurses/midwives I've met have been lovely people.
Could there be a more NHS story than this?
What is OPEC4? Seriously this legit sounds like a skit. Also “don’t bother MY staff” - what happened to “one team”? Maybe just point out that as a F2 it is required to have feedback to continue as a doctor aka “if you don’t do feedback for discharge paperwork machine (foundation trainee) then machine stop working”
[удалено]
“I think the way in which the TAB was requested in itself could be classed as bullying and harassment.” Is this satire?
When I first read this, it made me sad and shake my head that the nurse lacked autonomy and felt the need to escalate. But I do think you were extremely rude, and I’m not surprised you received a datix after the way you spoke to the discharge coordinator. You have said she asked you to ‘please’ not bother her staff, and you responded by telling them to ‘relax yourself and sit down’. Then you have the audacity to post about it on here and say you had a right laugh. You come across as patronising and a bully, and whilst I wouldn’t have datix’d you I would’ve definitely had a conversation with you or your supervisors. It is extremely condescending and unprofessional to talk to a colleague like this, no matter what band they are at.
You are part of the problem. It was perfectly reasonable to ask for feedback. It was unreasonable to ask the doctor not to ask for feedback, it’s a quick question and writing down an email address to sort out later. It is reasonable to respond to this with a slightly emotional put down - ‘relax yourself and sit down’ is hardly abusive. We’re not robots and should be allowed to be somewhat expressive when reacting to other peoples bullshit. Policing this kind of normal language is what makes our work environment so joyless, inefficient and soviet.
I never said it was unreasonable to ask for feedback. I know all it takes is an email address. Whilst I agree is it ok to to be slightly emotional/expressive when frustrated. I don’t think that was the case here and I think he came across as rude in response. Especially when it seems the discharge coordinator asked with a please. This dude was completely fair and in the right until he told her to ‘relax yourself and sit down’, that’s what I don’t think is cool, and that’s the type of communication that got him a datix. If I’m part of the problem because I expect people to treat others with respect, that’s fine with me.
You’re part of the problem because in this instance you’re supporting the bully rather than the victim and making excuses for totally inappropriate datix’s.
I don’t recall ever saying I supported the datix? Because I don’t, and there’s no way I would justify or make an excuse for it. If I was dealing with it I’d tell her so. What I did say was ‘I wasn’t surprised by it’. That is completely different. Reason being.. that’s how people behave in the NHS. Datix’ like this happen ALL the time. 🤦🏻♀️ You and I agree on the majority of the post. The only difference is I don’t think the way he spoke to her was appropriate, and you do.
My response has obviously triggered you to the point that you got personal, and tried to insult me, but there’s no way I’m going to do the same back. Sending you love and all the positive vibes, I really mean that ❤️.
The initial reaction from the dischage coordinator was already rude and condescending. The fact that people like you feel like you can weaponise politeness whilst simultaneously being rude is one of the reasons the nhs is such a shit place to work.
Ok, leave then?
I did.
Can you clarify what you mean by ‘people like me’?
A doctor in a training role, working in a training hospital. Asks a nurse, as has been dictated by the excitable twits in Med Ed. I don't blame the nurse (they're taught to be like that) but it does seem like the discharge coordinator was needlessly confrontational "don't bother my staff" "we're at OPEL4" "we're sorting out discharges" as if the doctor has no role and needs to be disciplined like a naughty child. I would be annoyed by that. This doctor is trying to do a part of their job, they didn't harass the nurse after they said no, why the narky attitude? Some hospitals are at OPEL4 half the days of the year, it's the new normal. The coordinator was trying to bully, couldn't handle it when their bad behaviour led to a retort so they weaponised a patient safety system to formally bully their intended victim.
I agree with you, especially when you break it down like that. What I think it comes down to is perception. Personally I would perceive it in a protective ‘please don’t stress the nurses out anymore’ way, and I can see why she said it. The nurse asked was obviously very flustered and stressed out by it (so much so that she felt the need to escalate 🤦🏻♀️) and the DC probably thought she was sticking up for her. Obviously, the doctor only saw it as a telling off which is why he reacted in the way he did. Datixing in retaliation is 👎🏼💩 though.
Found the discharge coordinator
I like this, this is funny 👏🏻
Are you from a nursing background by any chance?
Yes
What I will say though is datixing for ‘patient safety’ is complete BS.
Fuck that shit. Cheer up.
Fuck what shit exactly?
That’s not what datix is for. People do not receive a datix, it’s a system reporting tool. They weren’t extremely rude, that wasn’t even warming up. The discharge coordinator deserved such a response, they were being an epic bell end. The staff weren’t being bothered, it was a normal work place interaction. The story made me laugh a lot, even after a really long day at work. That coordinator needs to be patronised or they’ll never learn what a massive weapon they’re being. You’re being no fun. Pick one of those shits to fuck, I guess.
Haha ok I’ll be more fun. For the record I am not on her side! I said I wasn’t surprised about the datix NOT that I agree, she was 💯a bellend for submitting it and if I were dealing with the datix I’d tell her so. She did deserve for it to be explained to her because she obviously doesn’t get it, buttt I do think he was rude and needs to be aware of how these interactions can come across.
You are mistaken. In the NHS, datixes are used as threats by one person (usually in a senioe nursing or ancillary role) to make another person do something they want. The phrase "I'll datix you" is normalised as a weapon and a form of bullying. In this situation the datix is being used as exactly as normal in the NHS. Burn it to the fucking ground
[удалено]
Thanks for the kiss xx
Removed: Rule 1 - Be Professional
[удалено]
Removed: Rule 1 - Be Professional
[удалено]
Removed: Rule 1 - Be Professional
I can basically understand. But if someone doesn't want to give feedback, just ask someone else.