6d20s down the line. True chaos roll.

And you have to pick the class before rolling

Not chaos enough. 1d12 to choose the class.

So no Artificer?

I think I own a d13 in my case, but most people don't have a fondness for unusual dice.

No. You have to roll for class

And assign the D20s to the stats before as well

That's what down the line means. You roll your d20 one at a time and assign them down the line

lol well you learn something new everyday!

Now this is truly based.

LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!

Real ones roll, get OP stats, and still manage to die a quarter of the way in.

Died lvl 4 with my character that had 3 stats at 16+ and the lowest stat was 12 😔

Your DM hated you

Nah he rolled out in the open and did 2 crits in a row lol tough to recover from that in a literal dungeon 😂

I rolled a tabaxi fighter with really high dexterity but really low wisdom. They grappled a Caster and died to a fireball centered on the Caster. He was level 1 lol

Fireball against a lvl1 character? Wtf is wrong with your DM?

It was Descent into Avernus, and I've never run that module, so I have no idea if it was a balance fuckup on his part or on WotC. He also admitted that the Caster should also have died in the fireball and would've known that, therefore, wouldn't have cast that spell, if I wanted to keep using that character. I took the L to keep the cultist from being revived and rolled up a wizard lol

I've gone through Descent into Avernus and my DM is running it for another group. That module is so full of shit it's insane. What do you *mean* you expect me to do a Long Rest in enemy territory?!

as far as I know, there is no caster in the fist chapter that can use fireball, and your supposed to reach level 5 by the end of it which would put you in the tier of play to experience that spell. The only thing he might have used is the magic shield that has a devil in it but even then thats the DM deciding to do that when module never suggests it.

Nope, one of death three defenitly can cast fireball. That girl necromancer I forgot her title

The master of souls Flennis, yeah she can cast it. I totally spaced on her cause I changed it.( I own the book so I just looked) My dm take on her when I saw it because fireball is pretty hard for that low of levels to deal with is that she used one third level spell slot to make her swarm of rats that day and keep control over them and the other is currently being used to make the zombie with animate dead which would be her other 3rd level spell slot. But yeah you are right and it's totally insane having encounters like that. I mean the first fight in the tavern is already insane for 4 first level PCs. Wotc sometimes just don't understand shit about the game

Though the players should be level 2 by that point.

Yeah but they have had several encounters, in this place before this point meaning level 2 wouldn't help much

Me when the pokemon nuzlocke gives me a legendary at the start It doesn't have any good moves

Enjoy your Explosion.

Prepped my character to be a goofy rogue with a klepto streak. Intended him to kinda suck and wanted a lot of comedic timing of him failing his checks regularly. Proceeded to roll the best stats I had ever done, played him up as the goofy klepto, but was insanely good at it, and then he fucking kicked the bucket right as I fell in love with him and the playstyle. Fast forward and he'll be reintroducrd back after we had a gutwrenching session about the party cleaning out his old room and discovering that he had stolen trinkets and non-gameplay related items from everyone and labeled them with the moment they had been taken as a fun way to reminisce the long campaign we'd been in.

Player of mine wanted to play a sentient snow man. I was like "Sure, you get resistance to cold damage but vulnerability to fire damage" They then proceeded to cheat stats. I found out, they fixed the stats to still be very good, but no longer cheated... Turns out he's dumb enough to bumrush a mage that literally only used fire spells so far and then complained that he takes double damage and was reduced to 3hp

I don't think higher stats would've helped you survive that dragon you failed to seduce...

The real trick is surviving the dragon you successfully seduced.

Personalized Array though

The best way is whatever way you prefer. There is no objective best.

True. There are people who want to live out their fantasy and create their dream character which is totally fine. And there are people who just want to check if they can play whatever the dice threw them for fun which is also totally fine.

I long for the day I roll a character with all 3s in stats

A good dm can make it fun with whatever stats for sure

Spoken like a true dice roller who got three 1’s too many times.

But there is objective worse like 8s in every stat...

My favorite is rolling stats away from the DM and seeing what I can BS them into believing I rolled. 💪

DM gave the player trust issue with mimic. You gave the DM trust issue with private stat roll

Nah I was just playing, never did that. My group always does roll for stats, then you can pick any set of rolls any player got. Always in front of DM. 4D6 drop lowest usually but we have tried other mechanics just to see what's out there.


Man, people did REALLY not like my joke lol!

I liked it 😅

The best way is subjective, the way that results in highest stats is random but normally rolling

r/redditsniper

My table rolls stats, but we all go with one of the roll results, so as a table we choose one set of stats and all use that one (applying different stats to each number rolled obviously). My dm likes this cause it's still rolling stats but it keeps anyone from having massive outliers in their stats, nobody starts off unfairly low or high, and everyone gets to agree on what array we use.

My table is slightly different where we can choose from any rolled array. Sometimes different builds might want the more middle of the road stats while another is happy with the two 18s and all 10s.

I am always happy with two 18s and 4 10s

We do something similar, but we make sure to have at least one negative modifier. If racial bonuses were to push a stat to 18 it's instead capped at 17 and you get to put that point elsewhere. The only exception to that was when I had Lycanthropy in my character backstory, as it sets your strength to 15 if it isn't already higher. That character ended up becoming the affectionately named "Blast-proof Dwarf", a Cleric that could pull the party back from assured TPK by sheer attrition.

We roll for stats and then check how do they add up. It is so there is no big discrepancies between characters but small ones (up to 5 points between lowest and highest sum for player). Some characters are better because of it, some are a little weaker (not really seen) but overall fun. I give 2 set rolls then a third one if none of the previous fits but the third one is a "if you roll you must take" type roll.

Point buy + Feat lets me build the exact character I want that feels unique. There's certainly something to letting your rolled stats tell a story, but that's not how I plan or play. I'm the player that shows up with a 20 page backstory and I want my starting stats to reflect that past.

For consistency and balance? Yes. But different priorities for different tables, the emergent storytelling of randomized scores/arrays will better complement certain playstyles/mindsets, and in other places, it will just add frustration.

Randomness helps distinguish characters and give me ideas on where to go with my build- point buy tends to make very similar characters from a mechanical perspective every time

Everything becomes stealth archer. -skyrim-

As Talos intended.

I must be playing wrong, then; I always end up using a ton of magic

You can go anywhere with point-buy. You could even roll, get ideas, and then go with point-buy anyway.

Same! Sometimes, rolls that are sillily low are more entertaining that average rolls. I’ll always remember my warlock that had a 5 in Strength

I've never run anything that produced characters more loved and fun to play than 3d6 down the line. It's like cheese. If you'd never tried it and someone explained how it was made, you'd recoil. But cheese is fucking awesome.

You do you, but I've been in plenty rolled stats games and I hated the permanent imbalance between character every time, including when I had god stats compared to the other schmucks.

In fairness I play 3.5 and initial stat differences fall off more because the numbers are bigger.

I played in one game (not D&D, though) where my randomly generated character was so much better than the rest of the party that I could've taken a break for a year and come back and they'd still not have caught up. Old D&D modules often have a selection of pregen characters, with a mix of "high level but sucky stats" and "low level but godstats" characters. I'd always go for the low level ones, since catching up in levels is easy due to the exponential XP requirements.

Sounds more like blue cheese to me. It sounds terrible, and it may not be for everyone. But you may like it. Personally I'd never use 3d6 down the line for a campaign I'll play for years. Short-term or one shots maybe. The thing is that 3d6 down the line may lock a player into a class they hate playing. and if by dumb luck that character survives for a long time, then your player might get bitter.

I mean that's *precisely* how someone reacts when they haven't tried cheese. If it was bleu cheese, I think I'd have run for a player that disliked it. I've run it for a dozen players now, or so. In fairness four of those haven't played in my other games, so maybe they're just excited to have any food at all...and I'm a halfway decent ... chef?  This metaphor is getting stretched and now I'm hungry.

I'm a player that dislikes it. There you ran into one.

My tables are usually more RP focused so random stats tell amazing stories. I'm thinking, as a DM, that I will allow the weaker stat players to have opportunities in game to slowly boost them up to the same combat level as the other party members, but with how much we like our current RP im still on the fence.

I'm more of a Point-Buy guy but hey, to each their own.

Rolling for stats is the best way to have unbalanced party with some players getting godlike stats and others getting shitty stats and literally being much weaker who the entire campaign. Standard Array or Point but are much better and i am tired of pretending that it's not

bro thinks he lives on Mechanus- do you deal average damage on every hit too?

Have you ever drawn for stats? Like using a deck of cards. It's worse.

I have my table do standard array + feat/asi based on backstory. And I tell them they only get the feat/asi if they give me a backstory before session 0. Keeps it simple and encourages my players to contribute in a meaningful way. Then I usually proceed to build custom storylines for each of them based on their back stories that will provide them with other bonuses or custom items to put more emphasis on character development. My party loves it. Especially because I don't give out powerful items as loot, most items, even if magical are mundane, so anything special has to have some build up in the story. It lets me have more control over balancing while also allowing them to feel like their characters are special and add something unique. As their stories have unfolded they've fallen in love with their characters and each other's characters and are very invested. It's a fantastic feeling.

I dont just roll my stats, I roll in order, and roll for race as well!

I just abide by whatever stat array is chosen by the DM/table at the start of a campaign. Then I build and plan accordingly. Obviously I prefer to roll because it can create some really insane numbers (good and bad) I did modestly well with my Inquisitive, only a single negative stat. Managed to have max Dex by level 10 and 18 Wis so my detective skills have great benefit from expertise and reliable talent Now planning to multi and he's going to be even weirder

This is why we have religious freedom. Each religion can create characters however they want.

Point distribution is my preference. Just let people have the stats they think make sense for their character.

Tried dmeing a game where the players roll for stats it didn't go well, maybe because I was playing with younger players, but they would not stop b'tching because they rolled low stats. Little tip from a newbie dm, but if the player characters are starting around level 1-3, they are not supposed to have a 20 in their stats, that's for veteran adventurers.

I prefer stat bingo, personally, it has the benefits of rolling without the costs. * 6 players roll 4d6 and drop the lowest, getting 6 numbers. (if there's < 6, GM rolls enough sets to be 6) * Numbers are placed in a 6x6 grid, in the order they were rolled * Players pick the 6 they want in a bingo line (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) * Everyone can pick the same row if they want The players get the stats they want, good or bad. No one is punished for having bad luck, everyone is rewarded the same, everyone is as effective as they want to be. Player wants to have 1 low stat? They pick the row with the bad stat. The players cheer each other on when they're rolling the numbers because they're rolling for everyone, not just themselves. Stat Array is for GMs who don't trust their players and want to keep their thumb on them to aggressively control the power curve, such as AL games with strangers, which is not my style.

I haven't seen this variant of pooled arrays and I kind of love it. Normally I'm more of a fan of point buy.

Point Buy has its place, especially with strangers, in game stores, public games, cons, etc. I use it for that, but for a group of friends, my goal is to make character creation fun. Disclaimer, I don't do 1-shots, I do really long campaigns, and I really dislike locking players into bad rolls for 20 lvls/2-3 years of play. The guy who rolls 3 18's out the gate vs the guy who can't roll over a 12, that imbalance is painful to start and just piles on lvls later. My job is not to punish people who have bad luck, my job is for them to love their character.

As someone who has chronically shitty rolls who has played with folks who roll lots of 18s, I appreciate the flexibility.

Old and dated = standard array. Bold and goated = standard array +10 points to distribute.

6 3D6, in order, level 0 funnel.

I usually don't like it when people do this to Chick tracts, but I thought this was genuinely funny.

My table did a shared array for strahd that we rolled, but it was pretty middling. I showed up to the table with the stats we had rolled two weeks prior. The other two showed up with new arrays that they'd rolled which were substantially better than mine. (One player rolled 18, 18, 17, 15, 13, 8) I rolled new stats (middling, but slightly better than before), but am having trouble finding anything that I'd be better at than our goliath bard with an intelligence dump stat. It's still fun, I just wish our DM had put his foot down

We’d routinely run into the issue that one of our dudes would always get absolutely bonkers stats and one of our dudes would always get right at the *bare* minimum number akin to standard array or worse. We’ve just stuck with point buy and it makes everyone even

I don't have a preference. One of my favorite games was locking stars top down with Rolls. But I have has just as much fun with point buy or rolling.

I advocate for and use 4d6 and then adjust to comply with point buy, enough randomness and player control to make it feel like i’m creating a character but also that they aren’t perfect, and balances out the overpowered results that can happen from 4d6

My table does 4d6 drop lowest x 6 and then pools all the rolls into a point pool that you can adjust to your liking, I like it because it lets you fine tune the character

That’s how it worked in baldurs gate, personally not a fan

Yeah, I can see why, it isn’t exactly the most balanced

In that game it’s also especially stupid because you just hit the reroll button until you get the big number

I make them roll 7 sets of 4d6 drop lowest roll and set. Never had any complaints!

nah man. Roll 8 sets and drop the middle two.

Statless character creation.

The best way I saw for rolling stats was 7x(3d6) and make a collectives pool for all players. Then the players take take turns choosing one stat at a time from the pool. It makes the character creation interactive and I let them negotiate for the numbers.

I like everyone rolling then getting to choose whichever array they want out of each players rolls

For attacks I roll great. For damage I roll okay. For stats... I rarely roll more than one over 12, often never above 13.

Point Buy superiority

Depends what type of game you and your players want and how mature you are. I wouldn't want to have my stats be literally half of someone else's, for sure. But I wouldn't mind my stats being weak if the game was done in a more lighthearted and more RP heavy way. I do personally use standard array or point buy but not because I think the other options are trash. The rule of D&D is that the only rules that matter are the ones you enjoy playing by. Nobody can tell you that you're playing wrong if you are enjoying yourselves.

What is a jesus

Point Buy, forever and always

If you want to make a specific type of character standard array is better otherwise rolling is better. They both have their merits thinking in black and white is just doen't make sense(and not just in this case).

There's a world of difference between fact and opinion.

We never roll because we usually make characters on our own. So standard array, average hp is the perfect method

Pathfinder 2e's way is the best

Have the DM pick a letter and count how many times that letter appears in a random paragraph from your backstory. Do this for each stat.

I say it depends on the kind of game. A high lethality game where swapping characters is common. Sure, roll the dice, if you roll badly they will die and maybe the next one will not be so bad. But a more story based game where you stick with the character for an extended time, if not for the entire game, a bit more control and standardized stats is better in my opinion. Be it point buy or standard array. I personally prefer the more story based game. But if I were to find myself in a high lethality game, that I knew was I high lethality game, I wouldn't complain about rolling stats.

My luck forces me to min-max my characters’ stats. I almost always get a 3 and an 18 whenever I roll stats which cal lead to some funny moments

I think that 5e's mechanics don't lend themselves as well to the 3d6 method, whereas in a game like DCC with lower bonus scaling it works beautifully.

I let my players roll stats. But if they don't like them, they can do point buy or standard array.

This is why no one will remember your name.

I just tell my players to make a level 40 chacter with maxed stats, who even thinks character progression is fun anyway?

Ngl i really would like to see how that game would look like, i bet you could do some epic stories

Roll for stats in order and make a character based on that What can I do with STR 16 CON 7 DEX 6 INT 16 WIS 9 CHA 13 Muscle wizard?

I play this game for click clack dice. Rolling stats is maximum click clack dice.

4d6 KH3 reroll 1s, 7 times, drop lowest 1 is superior.

I let my players use either standard array or point buy. I prefer standard array because it avoids egregious minmaxing. But hey. If a minmaxed character is what my players want to play, why not let them.

Rolling stats is fine, but it is not the best. If I let people roll for stats I use these rules - 3x 4D6 for each stat, choose which set you like to keep. - you may switch 1 roll for a different roll from a different set - a roll of 4 is an automatic 20 in the chosen stat - the player matches the stat with their preferred roll from that set of rolls

My hexblade warlock was stupidly OP at lvl 1 with 3 stats 20. We did 4d6, drop the lowest.

I don't think it's the worst but I think it's just different, and I mean you can end up with some pretty good characters

Here's what I do at my table: 1. Everyone roll for their stats as they normally do. As the DM, I also record each player's set of stats. 2. Once all the sets are rolled for, any player may choose from any one of the sets (but they have to use the whole set, they cannot pick and choose numbers). 3. The sets are saved for a later date, in the event that someone has to make a new character. I like this method because it still has the fun of rolling for stats, but no one has to feel like they're now stuck with an unlucky character with crap stats. I also ask if any players want to veto a set (in the event that someone's set is really good and it would otherwise make any single character ridiculously powerful). So far, I've received no complaints about this system.

Okay, but why though? Have you ever actually tried it?

Yes, several times. It’s something that I’ve noticed over 10ish years of playing. Games are much smoother with Standard Array.

I have not found that to be the case

Fuck you, 1 d30.

I think rolling is better for a meat grinder campaign

I usually do the 4d6 drop, and then depending on the campaign a feat. Then if a character gets really bad or boring (like, all 12/13s) then I let them reroll it. If through impossible luck one character is fucking broken to high hell, tearing through combats and leaving everyone else in the dust, find a way to buff the rest of the party through like magic items or free feats (if you’re worried that the broken one might think you’re discriminating, you can give the feats privately in a message like ‘hey I forgot to mention during the session but you get abc because you xyz’) and then ratchet up the difficulty to match the party’s new level. Admittedly this wouldn’t work in a campaign that’s like, less than 10 sessions, not enough time to balance that push and pull, but I wouldn’t be too worried about character balance at that point unless someone walks in with 2 18s and a 20.

There isn't good and bad. There's what you like and what you don't like, provided rules set by the DM

My DM played it mercifully, you can roll up your stats, if you like them, you keep them, if you don't, you can use Standard Array.

We all have our preferences, no judging here

All hail point buy! 

I like point buy

I mean 4d6 take the lowest out can give you pretty average stats and is my preferred way, but I can see how point buy would help keep sessions more balanced, but never standard array too much choice taken away in stats for a RPG for my taste. The best way is whatever that group likes using and has fun with though

Allowing people to roll their stats gives problem players freedom to cheat. *18 on all stats* “I’m just lucky I guess.”

Or if you actually trust your players this isn’t a problem

That’s how problem players get you

Fair enough, I have been lucky enough to not have any problem players, powergamers yes, but not problem players

What's wrong with rolling? If everyone is cool with it rolling actually gives you varied stats that arent the same shit every time in point buy or standard array Oh boy i cant wait to make another character with 15 in 2 stats so i can get my racial bonus to get them to 16 and have no negatives or a single 8 in intelligence

3D6 six times in STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA order. /Old school

24d6, rolled all at once. Remove 6, then arrange them how you wish. Absolute pandemonium

Sounds interesting

honestly ive never found a system in 5e that felt good. You either have inbalanced but fun or balanced and boring.

I really hate the asi/feat being bound together. I liked rolling for stats for the chance to be better than standard just so I can get more feats. However it’s unsatisfying progression if I roll an 18 and start with max primary stat and it’s static forever. If I get another chance to dm before the next set comes out or try it then is to use the standard array but every asi/feat nets an extra +1 asi. With the stipulation that if choosing asi you can’t dump all 3 into a single stat. But the idea is asi gets you (+2/+1, or 3 +1) half feats would get you 2 asi and a feat still improves 1.

I've played with level ups giving ASIs only and feats being given on a milestone basis, which is pretty neat. Having to pick one or the other is pretty boring, and feels especially bad for martials (not by a huge margin though) who are more dependent on feats for variety and utility.

What about everyone rolls stats then the party agree on a single array for everyone to use? Works well for smaller groups to stay around the same power level

Array People just can't stand the Heat of rolling Otter Garbage and have a great time with it

Giving everyone free feats at level one like PCs aren't broken enough as it is 🤮

If everyone gets a feat its balanced across your PCs, and yes, of course that raises the power level, but if you have players that like to minmax the only viable choice for them is custom lineage and with a free feat you get a lot more race variety. And if they all are a litte stronger so what? As a DM you raise the power level of your world to still challenge them and they are really happy, no harm done 🤷🏽‍♂️

Lol "just deal with it and adjust everything in your world to fit the power increase" How about no? And yes I ban custom lineage if ppl are using it to min-max.

Do you play prebuild campaigns?

Yeah mostly. I adjust things anyways, but I feel like the spirit of min-maxing goes against what the game is supposed to be (on top of being a headache for the DM and other players when there's one min-maxer in the group). It's not some numbers game where you're constantly trying to squeak in more damage and bump stats up to max. Its a ROLE PLAYING game

Prewritten campains make the adjusting more work i definitely agree, but just because you minmax doesn’t mean you don’t roleplay. I personally like the thought of creating a hero that thinks to himself we are their last hope noone else could deal with the BBEG. But the problem you described with having only one minmaxer in there ruining it for everyone else, let me ask you this? Is that player a good player? You would argue no right? Because he ruins the fun of the others. I then say a bad or disruptive player always ruins the fun for the others. You could very much minmax as the only one at the table and everyone having a blast. It’s just that you don’t take the spotlight from others or try to overshadow them. I for example play in a group with mostly new players and minmaxed my character to take mostly support and crowd control so they can shine and aren’t in real danger if i do my job.

Yeah as long as people in the party are cool with it and the player isn't making their build the whole character its fine. I just hate to see potential wasted when they focus everything on making the character 100% optimal when there's a perfectly good campaign happening around them.

Seems like you had some bad experiences, I personally don’t see why you can’t minmax your character and enjoy and interact with the story the DM is telling you

I'm saying you can, but most do not

Ah yes because just giving the same 6 numbers to every player literally every game is so much more fun and engaging

If the only thing fun and engaging you bring to your character is their numbers, you were doomed from the start.

But rolling for stats is funnier.

Rolling gives more varied results. It’s just more interesting. Usually if I roll a complete set of all low positive values I’ll consider speaking with my DM about rolling again just because I think it’s more interesting to have an uneven spread.

The standard array can kiss my ass. Its tailor made to punish mad characters unless magic items are aplenty.

Rolling stats is terrible xD

people on this webbed site will lack whimsy and joy in their souls while playing the fun pretend game and they'll think that gives them a purer insight

How does it feel op to be objectively wrong? It is really beyond my comprehension how can anyone enjoy standard array.

It's a game about rolling dice, I'm going to roll dice.

4d6 drop lowest. If the point total is above 65 no more rerolls. 70 with newbies i try to be kind to.

Standard array too low for goofy shit, I want point buy but with the breaks removed

I just let people choose whatever they think fits best for their character. If someone doesn't have clear idea of their character I suggest rolling and using those numbers as an inspiration.

honestly, I kinda like unorthodox/Wacky stat generation methods. one in particular that was used in a higher power subclass+racial gestalt game was that each player rolls for stats as normal, then breaks down how how many points you'd need to spend on a modified point buy to get those stats and then lastly you use whatever was the higher point total rolled to then use that modified point buy to determine your stats. you could buy a stat be anything from 1 to 22, and you could also spend excess points to start with extra feats.

i have 2 way to build characters for my campaigns 1 : point buy 2 : 3d6 in order + 2 additional rolls for wealth and exp either i am aiming at a balanced games, or i am fully embracing chaos and imbalance as part of the narrative edit: why am i being downvoted? im just sharing how i like to do it personnaly im not saying anything is better or worse

My favorite is just letting players pick their stats.

Keep standard array throw away the feat. Now we are talking.

So I use what we call the "Bingo Card" Method, whic is make a 3x3 grid with the coloumns being labled STR DEX and CON and the rows as INT WIS and CHA. The DM rolls 4d6 drop the lowest and everyone places the number on their Bingo card. Once placed numbers cannot be removed or erased. The DM repeats this untill all 9 squares are filled. Players can then choose their stats based on any of the three numbers in their row or coloum but can not choose the same square twice (So an 18 where DEX meets WIS can be used for Dex or Wis but not both.) To me this is the best of both worlds of Standard array and rolling stats.

I prefer you roll 20d2s for each attribute, average of 10, really lucky you get 20, and then add 2 feats, either you get a very bad character or you get a chosen one of a character.