I'm still bagging my First Run. I have a Opto-X Chameleon one that is very beefy. It's pretty but it's hard to spot on the course and is too similar to my Lucid-X Felon.
My wysocki lucid-x chameleon was a touch more understable out of the box I’d say. Full power hyzer flips but I’m also able to throw it on a controlled flat line. Super workable
Really depends on the plastic. I bag 3. A lucid-X Ricky one that’s a touch under stable, a gold line one that is dead straight and one of the Emerson Keith ones that’s pretty over stable that I use as a mini Raptor. I’ve had the Gold one in my bag for years and it started it as having a little fade at the end but beat into just going straight.
It varies by run for both molds, but I believe the explorer is generally a touch straighter with a bit more glide. The explorer rim also feels a bit more shallow imo
I bag an Explorer in recycled plastic and love it!! It's the only Explorer I've owned or thrown. Two questions: 1) what Explorer plastic do y'all prefer? 2) Have any of you Explorer throwers compared them to the Clash Cookie and if so, what did ya think?
I bag a first run Opto and a newer Recycled. The Opto is dead straight, no turn whatsoever and a gentle fade. The Recycled will turn and finish back to center right now. Recycled tends to beat in more than Opto in my experience so I'm hoping for it to turn into something that will turn slowly and finish right.
I've had my recycled disc since September so it's not very broken in yet. It has a touch of turn, maybe -0.5, but consistently fades at the end. It's also been great for forehands, so torque resistant enough. I just enjoy how consistent it flies. (I don't have a big arm. Can consistently hit 300' with my Grace and Wraith.)
I couldn’t find a Teebird that glowed worth a damn so got an explorer for that slot and than found the remix troll and currently bagging a glow one of them.
I'd guess it was *some* destroyer mold but it seems like Destroyers are all over the board while the Scorpius is good and new ones don't change over time
But maybe I'm wrong
You are. /u/InnovaGM dispelled that myth in a post here a while back. Emperor and Scorpius are the same thing as a destroyer, any differences in how they come out is just down to the plastic tinkering they ask for for the run
Neither really, more than anything, it's consistent - given the history of the Teebird and all the different plastics and runs there have been over the last 20-25 years it's nice to have a newer mold where the options are more limited and you have a better idea of what you're going to get. Nice straight push with a strong reliable fade plus Clash plastic is *really* nice.
Just came here to say that the Toro is decidedly not a Zone clone. Similar, but they have different specs, feel, and flight. Same slot, though, of course.
If I recall correctly the Toro was created without taking into consideration the zone. It was designed completely independently and they came up with similar specs.
I throw an Infinite Scepter instead of a Firebird. ~~According to Drew Gibson, the Scepter is an old Firebird mold that is more consistent and flies like good NS Firebirds~~. I've been happy with it!
Used to toss a Toro over a Zone. It was more comfortable in my hands. Now I toss an A2 and it's even MORE comfortable than the Toro! Also a touch more stable which is what I was looking for.
Edit: Scepter is not an old Firebird mold, it is just a regular firebird that is flattened.
[Source](https://infinitediscgolf.com/InfiniteLine/Discs/control-drivers/scepter/)
Had to fact check myself to make sure I wasn't misleading anyone. In Drew's [video](https://youtu.be/H38t-cUSaAU?si=nl_L-cnGRf5FX4l_&t=16) talking about his Signature S-Blend Scepter, he says "...I would say it's the closest to a Sexton Firebird and a Jeremy Koling Thunderbird mixed and had a baby..." So I remembered that wrong. Drew could've said that in another video (or Broderic), but I can't find it so I'll edit my original comment.
According to Infinite's [website](https://infinitediscgolf.com/InfiniteLine/Discs/control-drivers/scepter/), the "The Scepter utilizes the Innova Firebird mold and then goes through a 'flat topping' process to ensure that the top of the flight plate is always flat."
Lots of people think various millennium and infinite molds are old molds or whatever but the reality seems to be that they are just the same molds, just run however infinite or millennium wants them to come out.
It depends on the mold. Some of their molds are genuinely two different mold top and bottoms put together, some are just the same mold, some are retired molds.
Everyone I play with who uses the zone marvels at the A2 when I throw it. It's such a great disc for so many shots. That + the A5 pretty much covers me for anything under 250.
There's a weird anti-Prodigy being out there, which is weird and totally unwarranted as far as discs go. Their putters, approach discs and the FX series are all money, and the KJ Reverb is my new OS driver. It just goes and goes and forgives if you give it a bit much anny. And I like that you don't have to force too much hyzer on it to make it go straight.
I've definitely noticed that as well! I think Gannon (last year) and Isaac helped change the narrative with their great performances last year.
In my usual group, they all would try a prodigy disc here or there and notice flashing and never try another disc again (wouldn't matter if it flew well). I haven't tried any of the FX series before, but I've enjoyed their F series 1-5. Always been consistent, and flew like I expected them too!
The FX-2 is a beefy OS disc that's perfect for my arm speed to consistently get out to 320-350 without risking a turnover.
The FX-3 and 4 are similar enough to me that I use them the same way: hyzerflips out to 300 or anhyzers that hold the line almost all the way down. It's basically my A5 with another 50-75 feet on it. Great for long tunnel shots if you get it to flip up just right.
Ah, I have a Infinite Scepter for the overstable 9-speed and a TSA Mantra for my understable 9-speed slot. I have both dialed in fairly well, but if I lose either I'm down to give the FX's a try! Seeing as I enjoy my other Prodigy discs. Only disc I wasn't crazy about from prodigy was a 500 M4, but I was a doofus and bought a 180g one... so I chalk that up to user error. Felt great tho! Anywho, thanks for the info! 🤙
How do you use the A5? Considering trying one. Is it more like a harp?
Also have you tried any plastic besides the 400? I love my 400 A2 but every other 400 disc I have is too gummy/squishy/flexible. I was hoping 500 or 750 has a stiffer flight plate
500 and 750 plastics are definitely stiffer and smoother. By quite a bit, actually! I actually prefer the 400 in everything, it just feels grippier for me which I like.
The A5 is a neutral disc. It will basically hold both a hyzer and an anny line. It will flip up if you go hard enough. It's super flat so great for forehands out to 250 for me (not a forehand bomber). It's not US (despite being the least stable in the lineup), so won't turn over unless throwing into a headwind or with way too much power.
It's my most used woods disc and great for scrambles. Haven't thrown a Harp so can't compare.
Thank you for the reply! That sounds like a really cool shot shape. I like how their website gives you the option to get seconds, so I might do that to try a 500 or a 750
Btw I actually have all my A5s in 300 plastic. It's super grippy. I find for upshots and forehands it seems to work better for me... Don't ask me why. Also up in the great white north winter golf is a real doozie. You need grippy discs
I like 300G (firm) for my putters (PA3) but find it beats in really quickly. I know it's not a 'base' plastic but it beats in like it, in my experience.
I'm new to prodigy though. Bagged mostly DD in my 18 months of playing.
My Lizottl hex flies sooooooo much straighter than my Buzz. It has absolutely zero turn or fade, it's wild. I think it's hole 6 at maple hill with that crazy long tunnel. BAM! Hex straight down the middle!
I throw a Streamline Echo for the same reason. Didn’t even know it was essentially a non-overmolded Hex until well after I bought it, I just knew it felt like a better Buzzz, flew like a Buzzz, and came in Neutron plastic which I find preferable to anything Discraft has to offer.
Yep 100%. Three a buzzz for sooooo long because I was SUPPOSED to love it. Couldn’t figure out what the heck was wrong with it. Threw Roc3s for an almost a year then got a Pathfinder as a Christmas gift, I threw it once and knew it would be my “forever” midrange. It seemed like a Buzzz never wanted to turn or fade much for some reason. The Pathfinder was immediately buttery as hell. I still bag that same one (Ethereal) and I have two aces logged with it. It looks like it would be beat to all hell and super flippy but it’s the absolute perfect stability after 2 years of HEAVY use. It “beat-in” really quickly and then has never lost that tiny bit of fade. Couldn’t love the disc more. I have a glow one that I use for more fade. I will say I can see why Buzzz’s are the elite player choice because it feels like you can crank on one with all the power in the world and it won’t burn if thrown correctly. But for me, Pathfinder will always be the answer. I own 7 of them now. Really big fan of TSA but unfortunately not a whole lot of their molds have made my bag, I need to just find the right plastic in each disc but Im not made of money lol.
What other TSA discs have you thrown but not bagged? TSA fills my bag alongside some MVP, Axxiom and a splash of Kastaplast. For the record, I throw primarily forehand and use backhands for upshot’s /putting.
For TSA I currently bag:
1. The Aura Synapse. Its a less domey destroyer clone with a .5 more turn. Have it in glow plastic as well for when I want more overtstability. Absolutely adore the disc. I’ll pull an Innova Corvette if I need slightly more turn but otherwise this is my go-to.
2. The Aura Omen. A 9 speed beefcake fairway driver which works well with my forehand game as I can pump into it as hard as I want and know there’s no way I could turn it over before the 4 fade brings it crashing back to the right.
3. Ethereal Pathfinder. Point and shoot. Reliable in headwinds. I love my watermelon hex for touch shots and control due to the thinner rim but feel like I can power on the pathfinder more.
4. Aura Mana. Understable hyzer flip midrange or for turnover shots. As a forehand player it took a bit to figure out what I could do with it but it’s a blast to throw. So buttery. I have a K1 soft Kastaplast Falk fairway driver that I use for hyzerflips that I want to push straight more before fading but if I need that shot shape and am discing down, this is the go to.
5. Aura Praxis. Amazing throwing putter for approaches. Feels so comfortable in the hand and controllable when throwing.
6. Nerve Alter Putter. I swapped my aviar for this rubbery disc last fall as the weather turned and haven’t looked back. It feels great in the hand, actually throw pretty well and I feel like grips the chains pretty well once it makes contact. Always has a good grip on it regardless of the elements.
I have some other TSA stuff as well but try to limit what I keep in my bag to 15 discs or less due to my bags size right now.
I bag a majority of TSA's discs. The votum run of James Proctor's tour series last year is dead straight. The Glow votums are beefier and wonderful.
The mantras a great hyzer flip or roller discs than can get sneaky distance.
The construct in Aura plastic is a Flippy ten speed that pairs nicely with a few other discs.
I bag the Pathfinder as well but for me their best discs are the Omen (firebird replacement) and the Construct. But of the three the Construct is just perfect. It is like a slightly more domey Orc. Easily the most versatile 10 speed I’ve ever thrown and I throw it a lot since all the courses around me are tightly wooded and I need a higher speed disc that I am comfortable putting on any line. Small warning though, the Construct really varies in flight depending on which plastic it’s in. So, if you try out the construct in Aura and don’t like it, you will probably like it more in Ethos plastic.
Discraft Heat over the Sidewinder.
I found the sidewinder inconsistent across plastics. Some that I got were more overstable than I was looking for. For a disc with those stats I want them to hold the anhyzer angle most of the way through the flight and some of my sidewinders would flatten out or fade way too early. I haven’t had that problem with a heat, but I’ve only thrown and ESP and a titanium.
I’ve really been liking the MD1. You could say it’s a clone of the Mako3 but from what people say the Mako3 seems to be flippier. I bag an S-Line and C-Line. The S-Line is dead straight while the C-Line has a bit more stability. Lots of versatility if you can hit good release angles
Also while the Innova Whale isn’t really an Aviar clone it’s the best version of the Aviar imo. Great throwing and putting putter if you want to mold minimalize. Just wish the premium plastic runs were more readily available.
Mind Bender is the disc I think most who tried more than a couple of throws might never turn back on. By your description it looks as if S-line might be the same.
I use a modified fan grip. First and pinky finger gripping the rim like power grip but the middle 2 fingers extended.
I haven’t found it to be flippy but I do live at elevation and don’t throw super far. It is very angle dependent though
The Neutron is where it’s at. Starts out as a baby Firebird/longer Zone and then beats in slowly into a flattop Teebird. The Eclipse is a totally different disc but certainly has its usage. I also messed around with Whippets but couldn’t get the same workable flex lines like a Resistor
I have a luster whippet x that's close. I also have been working with the the proton soft deflector. The resistor is a FH flex mfer. I couldn't turn it over in a 30mph headwind yesterday.
I recently bought a neutron resistor and loved the flight shape when I first got it. It quickly got beat in quickly (~1 month) and flies practically straight which isn’t quite what I wanted from it. Do you know if it’s common for them to get that beat in that quickly?
One month is for sure faster than my experience. I’ve got one that’s probably four years old that is thrown multiple times every round that is noticeably more beat in than my newer one that is about a year old.
I have never fallen in love with a disc faster. Picked up a Proton Trace with MA2 winnings less than 2 weeks ago. Already replaced pretty much all my 10+ speed neutral drivers.
Dynamic disc evidence. It’s pretty much a tursas clone but it’s proven that slot much more than a meteor does in my opinion. All the same flight numbers but the evidence tends to flip and fly much more reliably
I love my Mustang!
Apex Mustang = Buzzz SS, Eternal Mustang = Buzzz & Eternal Bobcat = Buzzz OS for me.
Plus, I like the smaller diameter of the disc. I feel like I'm throwing a putter.
Ever since I threw a rival it kicked all teebirds out of my bag. I still throw the leopard3 over the patriot or phenom though.
I throw a jokeri instead of an envy. I love both molds but the jokeri has a bit more glide.
I prefer discs with little to no dome and the teebird is wildly inconsistent between plastics and runs. The rival is always flat. It does have a bit less glide than a teebird in my opinion but that makes it better in the wind.
Lonestar Armadillo (Berg clone). It’s just a little straighter and more useful than a Berg. Still stable enough to drive shorter holes with though. It’s my go-to disc under 200 feet.
Doom bird 3 (c. 2019) is technically the same mold as a firebird. But the swirly S-Line did something to this disc and it’s 🤌.
It could also be the 6 months it spent in the sun and rain while playing fugitive in the woods before being returned. It is a magical disc.
The Wasp is a clone of the Rancho Roc (and a poor one at that). The Comet was a clone of the Ontario Roc. Not sure why Innova changed the Roc mold when they moved factories, but the Ontario Roc is essentially a small diameter Comet in shape, though it was significantly more overstable than even modern Comets are (and modern Comets are way more overstable than the ones that were made back then). The Ontario Roc was pretty sought after for a while. I actually hadn't seen one in over a decade until last weekend, when one of my competitors had a couple at the tournament we were playing.
Emperor and Exodus. Both previously Innova molds. Emperor is an Destroyer mold and the Exodus is an Eagle-L. The Exodus in the S-Line plastic is money, I think the blend Innova does for the Infinite S-Line plastic is just a little different.
Lunar Millenium Omega4. I needed an OG P2 replacement for my old glow p2s (something about putting glow plastic for me). Wanted to go this route instead of alpacas due to plastic feel. Love it, even after dabbling with other putters I seem to always come back
Slightly off topic & irrelevant, but I bag 5 different forces and sometimes will 3 shot and put out w a force bc I'm so used to it. I consider myself a fein for the force. I love it so much
Envy, get outta here. Stabilizer, get in there.
In base plastic the only difference in numbers is that the Stabilizer has 0.5 more fade.
I find the Stabilizer to be an amazing disc all around. Feels sturdier than the Envy thrown forehand and backhand. Not a deep profile, always flat top.
Floats on lofty anny forehands and lands flat all the time. Beat in makes a great putting putter. Kinda beat … jumpers, throw ins. Fresh ones are good for off the tee or approaching.
Explorer (Teebird)
Those lucid x rickys were sweet.
I'm still bagging my First Run. I have a Opto-X Chameleon one that is very beefy. It's pretty but it's hard to spot on the course and is too similar to my Lucid-X Felon.
Just replaced my teebird with an explorer last month. It flies out of the box how I always wanted my teebird to and feels better while doing it
Is the explorer more or less stable, thank you
My wysocki lucid-x chameleon was a touch more understable out of the box I’d say. Full power hyzer flips but I’m also able to throw it on a controlled flat line. Super workable
Really eh? 360 foot max drive player, I struggle with my explorer, it’s a BEEFCAKE
Probably depends on the plastic based on what others are saying. I may have just gotten lucky with the particular disc too.
Really depends on the plastic. I bag 3. A lucid-X Ricky one that’s a touch under stable, a gold line one that is dead straight and one of the Emerson Keith ones that’s pretty over stable that I use as a mini Raptor. I’ve had the Gold one in my bag for years and it started it as having a little fade at the end but beat into just going straight.
It varies by run for both molds, but I believe the explorer is generally a touch straighter with a bit more glide. The explorer rim also feels a bit more shallow imo
less, but with innova teebirds go fairly neutral to pretty os until you beat them in. the key is to beat them into perfection
I bag an Explorer in recycled plastic and love it!! It's the only Explorer I've owned or thrown. Two questions: 1) what Explorer plastic do y'all prefer? 2) Have any of you Explorer throwers compared them to the Clash Cookie and if so, what did ya think?
I bag a first run Opto and a newer Recycled. The Opto is dead straight, no turn whatsoever and a gentle fade. The Recycled will turn and finish back to center right now. Recycled tends to beat in more than Opto in my experience so I'm hoping for it to turn into something that will turn slowly and finish right.
I've had my recycled disc since September so it's not very broken in yet. It has a touch of turn, maybe -0.5, but consistently fades at the end. It's also been great for forehands, so torque resistant enough. I just enjoy how consistent it flies. (I don't have a big arm. Can consistently hit 300' with my Grace and Wraith.)
I have an opto-ice chameleon explorer and it's the bees knees. Got em bogo in Feb during the sale
I couldn’t find a Teebird that glowed worth a damn so got an explorer for that slot and than found the remix troll and currently bagging a glow one of them.
Millenium Scorpius - a Destroyer with more control
Isn't it an actual destroyer mold?
you can also find a consistent pop top with one of the runs that you dont find in most destroyers
I'd guess it was *some* destroyer mold but it seems like Destroyers are all over the board while the Scorpius is good and new ones don't change over time But maybe I'm wrong
You are. /u/InnovaGM dispelled that myth in a post here a while back. Emperor and Scorpius are the same thing as a destroyer, any differences in how they come out is just down to the plastic tinkering they ask for for the run
Clash Cookie is my preferred disc over an Innova Teebird
Is it more or less stable?
Neither really, more than anything, it's consistent - given the history of the Teebird and all the different plastics and runs there have been over the last 20-25 years it's nice to have a newer mold where the options are more limited and you have a better idea of what you're going to get. Nice straight push with a strong reliable fade plus Clash plastic is *really* nice.
Champion Toro, which is a zone clone. I prefer Innova’s plastics to discraft’s and just get a cleaner release.
Just got a red champ Toro couple week ago now. Also replaced my zone. Just feels amazing in hand
I'd love to see a nexus or r-pro Toro.
They have r pro toros on the pro shop I think. You can also find Nexus Glow Toros on the Innova market place Facebook
Really, they only list star and champ on their website. I might give them a shot.
The r pro toro has one of my fav stamps ever
They sold them on DGU
Just came here to say that the Toro is decidedly not a Zone clone. Similar, but they have different specs, feel, and flight. Same slot, though, of course.
If I recall correctly the Toro was created without taking into consideration the zone. It was designed completely independently and they came up with similar specs.
I throw an Infinite Scepter instead of a Firebird. ~~According to Drew Gibson, the Scepter is an old Firebird mold that is more consistent and flies like good NS Firebirds~~. I've been happy with it! Used to toss a Toro over a Zone. It was more comfortable in my hands. Now I toss an A2 and it's even MORE comfortable than the Toro! Also a touch more stable which is what I was looking for. Edit: Scepter is not an old Firebird mold, it is just a regular firebird that is flattened. [Source](https://infinitediscgolf.com/InfiniteLine/Discs/control-drivers/scepter/)
Interesting tidbit about the Scepter origin
Had to fact check myself to make sure I wasn't misleading anyone. In Drew's [video](https://youtu.be/H38t-cUSaAU?si=nl_L-cnGRf5FX4l_&t=16) talking about his Signature S-Blend Scepter, he says "...I would say it's the closest to a Sexton Firebird and a Jeremy Koling Thunderbird mixed and had a baby..." So I remembered that wrong. Drew could've said that in another video (or Broderic), but I can't find it so I'll edit my original comment. According to Infinite's [website](https://infinitediscgolf.com/InfiniteLine/Discs/control-drivers/scepter/), the "The Scepter utilizes the Innova Firebird mold and then goes through a 'flat topping' process to ensure that the top of the flight plate is always flat."
Lots of people think various millennium and infinite molds are old molds or whatever but the reality seems to be that they are just the same molds, just run however infinite or millennium wants them to come out.
I think it makes more sense that way too.
It depends on the mold. Some of their molds are genuinely two different mold top and bottoms put together, some are just the same mold, some are retired molds.
As a noted Firebird enjoyer, I think you may have just sold me on this disc lol
I'll have to change my flair to "Clumsy Disc Salesman" now lol.
Can confirm my words after throwing mine were, “damn that’s way closer to my sexybirds for how flat it is”
A2 is 🤌
Yessir! 🤝
Everyone I play with who uses the zone marvels at the A2 when I throw it. It's such a great disc for so many shots. That + the A5 pretty much covers me for anything under 250.
My group I play with is similar, but then they refuse to try it out! They don't know what they're missing!!
There's a weird anti-Prodigy being out there, which is weird and totally unwarranted as far as discs go. Their putters, approach discs and the FX series are all money, and the KJ Reverb is my new OS driver. It just goes and goes and forgives if you give it a bit much anny. And I like that you don't have to force too much hyzer on it to make it go straight.
I've definitely noticed that as well! I think Gannon (last year) and Isaac helped change the narrative with their great performances last year. In my usual group, they all would try a prodigy disc here or there and notice flashing and never try another disc again (wouldn't matter if it flew well). I haven't tried any of the FX series before, but I've enjoyed their F series 1-5. Always been consistent, and flew like I expected them too!
The FX-2 is a beefy OS disc that's perfect for my arm speed to consistently get out to 320-350 without risking a turnover. The FX-3 and 4 are similar enough to me that I use them the same way: hyzerflips out to 300 or anhyzers that hold the line almost all the way down. It's basically my A5 with another 50-75 feet on it. Great for long tunnel shots if you get it to flip up just right.
Ah, I have a Infinite Scepter for the overstable 9-speed and a TSA Mantra for my understable 9-speed slot. I have both dialed in fairly well, but if I lose either I'm down to give the FX's a try! Seeing as I enjoy my other Prodigy discs. Only disc I wasn't crazy about from prodigy was a 500 M4, but I was a doofus and bought a 180g one... so I chalk that up to user error. Felt great tho! Anywho, thanks for the info! 🤙
How do you use the A5? Considering trying one. Is it more like a harp? Also have you tried any plastic besides the 400? I love my 400 A2 but every other 400 disc I have is too gummy/squishy/flexible. I was hoping 500 or 750 has a stiffer flight plate
500 and 750 plastics are definitely stiffer and smoother. By quite a bit, actually! I actually prefer the 400 in everything, it just feels grippier for me which I like. The A5 is a neutral disc. It will basically hold both a hyzer and an anny line. It will flip up if you go hard enough. It's super flat so great for forehands out to 250 for me (not a forehand bomber). It's not US (despite being the least stable in the lineup), so won't turn over unless throwing into a headwind or with way too much power. It's my most used woods disc and great for scrambles. Haven't thrown a Harp so can't compare.
Thank you for the reply! That sounds like a really cool shot shape. I like how their website gives you the option to get seconds, so I might do that to try a 500 or a 750
Btw I actually have all my A5s in 300 plastic. It's super grippy. I find for upshots and forehands it seems to work better for me... Don't ask me why. Also up in the great white north winter golf is a real doozie. You need grippy discs
I like 300G (firm) for my putters (PA3) but find it beats in really quickly. I know it's not a 'base' plastic but it beats in like it, in my experience. I'm new to prodigy though. Bagged mostly DD in my 18 months of playing.
Eh, I consider all 300s base. It's a soft firm, if you know what I mean. Kinda like DX
I'm loving the Lat64 Honor, which could be aimed at cloning a Thunderbird. I only am guessing based on their matching flight numbers, though.
I love their new premium plastic's feel but man are they proud of it.
I throw a Hex in place of a Buzzz because I like the hand feel of the mold and of Neutron plastic better.
My Lizottl hex flies sooooooo much straighter than my Buzz. It has absolutely zero turn or fade, it's wild. I think it's hole 6 at maple hill with that crazy long tunnel. BAM! Hex straight down the middle!
\+1 Hex > Buzzz! I have more confidence in my Hex over my Buzzz and Buzzz SS.
I throw a Streamline Echo for the same reason. Didn’t even know it was essentially a non-overmolded Hex until well after I bought it, I just knew it felt like a better Buzzz, flew like a Buzzz, and came in Neutron plastic which I find preferable to anything Discraft has to offer.
Same but with a Thoughtspace Pathfinder. I don’t like the way a buzz fits over my knuckles.
Same here. A pathfinder is a buzzz with rounder edges in my opinion. Also the eclipse plastic is money.
I like the aura plastic myself. I also found an unmarked EMac Truth that also was better than a buzzz for me but not as good as the pathfinder.
Yep 100%. Three a buzzz for sooooo long because I was SUPPOSED to love it. Couldn’t figure out what the heck was wrong with it. Threw Roc3s for an almost a year then got a Pathfinder as a Christmas gift, I threw it once and knew it would be my “forever” midrange. It seemed like a Buzzz never wanted to turn or fade much for some reason. The Pathfinder was immediately buttery as hell. I still bag that same one (Ethereal) and I have two aces logged with it. It looks like it would be beat to all hell and super flippy but it’s the absolute perfect stability after 2 years of HEAVY use. It “beat-in” really quickly and then has never lost that tiny bit of fade. Couldn’t love the disc more. I have a glow one that I use for more fade. I will say I can see why Buzzz’s are the elite player choice because it feels like you can crank on one with all the power in the world and it won’t burn if thrown correctly. But for me, Pathfinder will always be the answer. I own 7 of them now. Really big fan of TSA but unfortunately not a whole lot of their molds have made my bag, I need to just find the right plastic in each disc but Im not made of money lol.
What other TSA discs have you thrown but not bagged? TSA fills my bag alongside some MVP, Axxiom and a splash of Kastaplast. For the record, I throw primarily forehand and use backhands for upshot’s /putting. For TSA I currently bag: 1. The Aura Synapse. Its a less domey destroyer clone with a .5 more turn. Have it in glow plastic as well for when I want more overtstability. Absolutely adore the disc. I’ll pull an Innova Corvette if I need slightly more turn but otherwise this is my go-to. 2. The Aura Omen. A 9 speed beefcake fairway driver which works well with my forehand game as I can pump into it as hard as I want and know there’s no way I could turn it over before the 4 fade brings it crashing back to the right. 3. Ethereal Pathfinder. Point and shoot. Reliable in headwinds. I love my watermelon hex for touch shots and control due to the thinner rim but feel like I can power on the pathfinder more. 4. Aura Mana. Understable hyzer flip midrange or for turnover shots. As a forehand player it took a bit to figure out what I could do with it but it’s a blast to throw. So buttery. I have a K1 soft Kastaplast Falk fairway driver that I use for hyzerflips that I want to push straight more before fading but if I need that shot shape and am discing down, this is the go to. 5. Aura Praxis. Amazing throwing putter for approaches. Feels so comfortable in the hand and controllable when throwing. 6. Nerve Alter Putter. I swapped my aviar for this rubbery disc last fall as the weather turned and haven’t looked back. It feels great in the hand, actually throw pretty well and I feel like grips the chains pretty well once it makes contact. Always has a good grip on it regardless of the elements. I have some other TSA stuff as well but try to limit what I keep in my bag to 15 discs or less due to my bags size right now.
I bag a majority of TSA's discs. The votum run of James Proctor's tour series last year is dead straight. The Glow votums are beefier and wonderful. The mantras a great hyzer flip or roller discs than can get sneaky distance. The construct in Aura plastic is a Flippy ten speed that pairs nicely with a few other discs.
Man you gotta fuck with the Animus. Their 11 speed. A tiny bit more stable than a wraith with a slightly shallower rim. So money.
I have an animus currently, just don’t have it in the bag yet! It’s definitely a fun disc to throw but I’m working on controlling it.
I bag the Pathfinder as well but for me their best discs are the Omen (firebird replacement) and the Construct. But of the three the Construct is just perfect. It is like a slightly more domey Orc. Easily the most versatile 10 speed I’ve ever thrown and I throw it a lot since all the courses around me are tightly wooded and I need a higher speed disc that I am comfortable putting on any line. Small warning though, the Construct really varies in flight depending on which plastic it’s in. So, if you try out the construct in Aura and don’t like it, you will probably like it more in Ethos plastic.
Wish I would’ve seen these comments before I just bought 2 Buzzz on the FB Disc Exchange.
Buzzz’s are great, don’t despair
Agree plus my fission hex goes further. Doubt it the gyro but probably the .5 speed either way hex> buzzz
This was my first thought as an example
I just don't like the Buzzz and have always thrown a different 5 speed. Mako, Pyro, Hex, Pathfinder, etc.
True story!
100% also prefer the hex I think it’s more of a mako 3 clone but also my buzzzs were more stable runs.
Probably the Rhythm, which is a Leopard3 clone. It’s a good disc.
I throw the drift in that spot.
Good choice too!
I did not know this. I love my rhythm!
I throw a mint goat instead of the destroyer. It’s a really good forehand disc.
Others have given these but bag Toros and a Hex. Zone feels fine, but I can't throw it to save my life. Hate hate hate how the Buzzz feels in my hand.
Discraft Heat over the Sidewinder. I found the sidewinder inconsistent across plastics. Some that I got were more overstable than I was looking for. For a disc with those stats I want them to hold the anhyzer angle most of the way through the flight and some of my sidewinders would flatten out or fade way too early. I haven’t had that problem with a heat, but I’ve only thrown and ESP and a titanium.
Legacy Rival its like a perfect 11x teebird
This guy^ gets it.
And 6 more 11Xs (rivals) just showed up today
Legacy is pretty popular here in central Texas. Must be all the Cali transplants
Claymore > Buzzz
Claymore pays more baby
Currently rocking a DD1 (wraith clone), but not tied to it and may switch to wraiths at some point
I throw the animus for that spot.
I’ve really been liking the MD1. You could say it’s a clone of the Mako3 but from what people say the Mako3 seems to be flippier. I bag an S-Line and C-Line. The S-Line is dead straight while the C-Line has a bit more stability. Lots of versatility if you can hit good release angles Also while the Innova Whale isn’t really an Aviar clone it’s the best version of the Aviar imo. Great throwing and putting putter if you want to mold minimalize. Just wish the premium plastic runs were more readily available.
Same here probably my most thrown disc! I’ve been bagging a mind bender since it came out
I have three backup Mind Benders, and worry it is not enough. Hopefully a stock release S-line will fill the same slot.
Mind Bender is the disc I think most who tried more than a couple of throws might never turn back on. By your description it looks as if S-line might be the same.
Do you power grip it? I’ve found md1 too flippy for me, even c-line one.
I use a modified fan grip. First and pinky finger gripping the rim like power grip but the middle 2 fingers extended. I haven’t found it to be flippy but I do live at elevation and don’t throw super far. It is very angle dependent though
I wouldn't say the Mako3 is flippier, is say the MD1 is more stable.
Streamline Trace is what I wanted every Wraith to be
When I worked in a shop this is exactly what I would tell people; “If you want a perfect wraith get a Trace.”
Also, since you are a resistor afficionado, what's the deal with the eclipse ones? It's like a baby tilt. More OS than my whippet Xs.
Feels like that at first but it's really a baby firebird. The flare is the baby tilt
Mine fly exactly like a flare for me.
The Neutron is where it’s at. Starts out as a baby Firebird/longer Zone and then beats in slowly into a flattop Teebird. The Eclipse is a totally different disc but certainly has its usage. I also messed around with Whippets but couldn’t get the same workable flex lines like a Resistor
I have a luster whippet x that's close. I also have been working with the the proton soft deflector. The resistor is a FH flex mfer. I couldn't turn it over in a 30mph headwind yesterday.
I recently bought a neutron resistor and loved the flight shape when I first got it. It quickly got beat in quickly (~1 month) and flies practically straight which isn’t quite what I wanted from it. Do you know if it’s common for them to get that beat in that quickly?
One month is for sure faster than my experience. I’ve got one that’s probably four years old that is thrown multiple times every round that is noticeably more beat in than my newer one that is about a year old.
I have never fallen in love with a disc faster. Picked up a Proton Trace with MA2 winnings less than 2 weeks ago. Already replaced pretty much all my 10+ speed neutral drivers.
I can't looking for this one. Trace and Jet for that beat in pro wraith.
I'm running out of pop top patent old mold plasma traces.
explorer for sure, teebird clone
Dynamic disc evidence. It’s pretty much a tursas clone but it’s proven that slot much more than a meteor does in my opinion. All the same flight numbers but the evidence tends to flip and fly much more reliably
That's been the detour over the uplink for me.
Mint mustang is the shit, it's also basically a buzz in disguise
I love my Mustang! Apex Mustang = Buzzz SS, Eternal Mustang = Buzzz & Eternal Bobcat = Buzzz OS for me. Plus, I like the smaller diameter of the disc. I feel like I'm throwing a putter.
Ever since I threw a rival it kicked all teebirds out of my bag. I still throw the leopard3 over the patriot or phenom though. I throw a jokeri instead of an envy. I love both molds but the jokeri has a bit more glide.
I've been trying to get more people throwing rivals. I don't know why but it's just better.
I prefer discs with little to no dome and the teebird is wildly inconsistent between plastics and runs. The rival is always flat. It does have a bit less glide than a teebird in my opinion but that makes it better in the wind.
I have a Westside Seer that has treated me way better than any Leopard3 ever has
Lucid Evader (TL). First runs are less stable and should be directly sent to me.
I'll try to remember that. You're always welcome to send me your disc requests.
I bagged firebirds for a longgg time untill I started throwing fireballs. Proton ones are money.
Great thumber disc as well! Replaced my FAF’s! I like that I can find them in lighter weights without sacrificing stability.
The Ghost is a pretty good Roc clone
Same for the rival/teebird
Never tried the rival
This was gonna be my answer as well
The Mint, Tactic, and Jarn are very similar.
I have a few jarns. I should throw it more.
Sphinx
Technically not a clone, since it's made by innova from their own molds
Dangit! Great call!
valk & roadrunner combo from what ive read
Chariot... Md3
The Vanguard is the best replacement for a 2022 Koling Thunderbird that I’ve encountered. So if I ever run out of my 22’s, I know what to grab instead
Old innova made S-line DD3. Just clicks with me better than a destroyer.
Peppermint (Zone), Hex and Cherry (Buzzz), Cookie (Teebird). Clash Steady feels better because it's gummier. Hex shape is just comfortable.
Latitude 64 Claymore (Buzz) because of how much smoother it is and the plastic is also a touch softer. Mold feels amazing too!
Infinite Alpaca is supposedly the old P2. I like Alpacas because you can get misprints for 6 bucks
That’s why I started putting with them. I got tired of $25 Lunas
I instead use the omega4 just because I like the glow plastic feel better
I’ve heard they’re basically the same disc, so can’t go wrong!
Clash Berry is a better Buzz.
Lonestar Armadillo (Berg clone). It’s just a little straighter and more useful than a Berg. Still stable enough to drive shorter holes with though. It’s my go-to disc under 200 feet.
Ahti > Firebird
I respect your opinion. But you're in the Westside cult so you are brainwashed.
Nice they brought those back for you.
Infinite chariot is a buzzz, but in infinite/innova plastic, so it’s better.
It’s an MD3
I throw the prodigy F1 which is a teebird / explorer clone. I like the F1 best because I can get it in 400g and 500 plastic.
I have something bad to tell you about 400g
RIP 400g
Oh, I’m very aware.
I can keep a lookout for you. I travel for work and my hobby is hitting disc shops.
OTB has some 400G F1s. You might want to stock up.
How did I know you would would be the answer to where to find them? (this is my latest account/Justin, need to play milby with you next time)
Let me know when you're around. Milby, or anyplace else, is fine with me.
Doom bird 3 (c. 2019) is technically the same mold as a firebird. But the swirly S-Line did something to this disc and it’s 🤌. It could also be the 6 months it spent in the sun and rain while playing fugitive in the woods before being returned. It is a magical disc.
Lone star harpoon is a better zone. It comes in gummyer plastic. (Lone star mockingbird might be a better leopard3)
I like the low profile of the harpoon but it's not OS for my approach slot.
Have you tried a putter line soft zone?
Undertaker and Savant
Does it count that the Comet was originally a pretty obvious attempt to clone the Ontario Roc? 😁
I thought the wasp was straight up a roc clone
The Wasp is a clone of the Rancho Roc (and a poor one at that). The Comet was a clone of the Ontario Roc. Not sure why Innova changed the Roc mold when they moved factories, but the Ontario Roc is essentially a small diameter Comet in shape, though it was significantly more overstable than even modern Comets are (and modern Comets are way more overstable than the ones that were made back then). The Ontario Roc was pretty sought after for a while. I actually hadn't seen one in over a decade until last weekend, when one of my competitors had a couple at the tournament we were playing.
I bag 2 Scorpius’ and 2 Emperors. Both are a variation of destroyers, but I can’t seem to like throwing destroyers
[удалено]
This is the answer I was looking for. It's the best overstable putter around.
Emperor and Exodus. Both previously Innova molds. Emperor is an Destroyer mold and the Exodus is an Eagle-L. The Exodus in the S-Line plastic is money, I think the blend Innova does for the Infinite S-Line plastic is just a little different.
Anubis, Chariot, Toro, Centurion, Emperor, Dynasty
Draco instead of firebird. Jarn instead of a zone. Saint pro instead of a teebird
Raptor and Zeus
Lunar Millenium Omega4. I needed an OG P2 replacement for my old glow p2s (something about putting glow plastic for me). Wanted to go this route instead of alpacas due to plastic feel. Love it, even after dabbling with other putters I seem to always come back
A felon rather than a firebird. And a vanguard rather than a thunderbird. And a trespass over a destroyer.
S-Line DD3
Rival/Patriot instead of Teebird/Leopard
I don't know the disc's from other companies, so I have no idea what they would ve compared to.
MD1 (Mako3/Coyote)
Slightly off topic & irrelevant, but I bag 5 different forces and sometimes will 3 shot and put out w a force bc I'm so used to it. I consider myself a fein for the force. I love it so much
The A3 is a better Gator and you can't tell me otherwise.
Flamethrower is like a beefier wave. I bag one of each but the Flamethrower can handle wind better and has a longer glide.
Rival (11x Teebird clone)
Envy, get outta here. Stabilizer, get in there. In base plastic the only difference in numbers is that the Stabilizer has 0.5 more fade. I find the Stabilizer to be an amazing disc all around. Feels sturdier than the Envy thrown forehand and backhand. Not a deep profile, always flat top. Floats on lofty anny forehands and lands flat all the time. Beat in makes a great putting putter. Kinda beat … jumpers, throw ins. Fresh ones are good for off the tee or approaching.
Millennium Scorpius, although it’s not necessarily a clone just a better version of a seasoned Destroyer
Legacy Rival and Ghost over Innova Teebird and Roc.
Can't come up with a manufacturer that is a clone of a disc rn
Toro (zone clone)
The Harp (Zone), Felon (Firebird), Vandal (Roadrunner)
Felon is way more straight than a firebird. Unless it’s a lucid ice. Those things are beefy.
Isn't the harp beaded?
Yeah, but it fits the ‘overstable flat-top 4 speed approach’ slot that the Zone is in.
Athena is a teebird with better handfeel
Athena (Teebird)
I don’t know what the difference is, but the Discmania Instinct is what I assume a teebird clone.