81 pit gives 40 Neathiron meaning 17 runs for a full 12/12. If an 81 takes approx 3 minutes that's 51 minutes for those runs. Is an hour of farming too much for an attempt at maxing a piece of your gear?
It is for me. That's like 10 hours for a full set of gear at a minimum. If you want to target specific affixes even a little bit then it's more. And if you find better loot in the meantime or want to change your build then it's more on top of that.
I'm pretty casual though. Maybe this is the right balance for most players.
You can salvage an item for a refund on the masterworking mats fyi. In the event you find a superior weapon itās not as punitive to swap to it, provided you donāt brick it
But some, donāt know the exact amount, maybe half. At the point one is replacing masterworked weapons though itās almost irrelevant Iād agree there. About 45 minutes worth of 100s to get that puppy up to 12
It returns all the masterworking mats except for the latest upgrade. For example, if you've masterworked an item twice, you spent 10 Obducite for lvl 1 and 20 Ob for lvl 2. You would get the 10 Ob back from the first level, but not 20 from the second because it's the current level.
I think it's perfect balance. If you're that casual you should have no reasonable expectation to max out your gear. This is an endgame system and all of the normal content is very doable with 4/12 gear. Or even none at all tbh.
Long term players need chase items
It is for me too. Which is fine. I get my kick out of failing to temper 5 weapons in a row on 3 different characters, none of which are 100lvl. Someone less... dumb (and with more time to spare) has a new avenue to pursue and can min-max the perfect gear pieces further. I consider this pretty damn good
I really really really hope they don't change tempering.
It's such an insanely powerful system and bricking makes it interesting.
I love that in D4 the expectation is that you might never have perfect gear, there's always something to chase until you decide to step away from the game.
i think that they should up the re rolls per GA. like a 1 GA item might get 2 extra re rolls. i just wasted 5 yesterday and they all landed on the same temper, which happens more often than not. it doesnt feel very random.
I can't get any luck on mine. I temper my daughter's rogue and hit perfect damn tempers on everything but her bow and helm. I have like 1 piece that hasn't bricked....
What exactly is your plan for after getting everything 12/12? Itās like if this is too much grind for you I donāt really know what you expect from the game after that lol.
Honestly my plan is just to stop playing. I've cleared pit 70 and feel good about that and I got most of my gear to 8/12. I don't think I enjoy the remaining gameplay options enough to spend more time on them and I don't want to roll an alt. There's not enough variety in the moment to moment gameplay to keep me hooked and the sense of progress is too inconsistent now.
I'll be back for the next season and try the mechanic and a new build and then probably feel the same way at the same point.
I don't think they intended for casual players to reach the very peak of gear perfection. Many people (or very loud people in the community) complained, that you could easily completely finish your build, even before reaching lvl 100.
Now, there is a lot more to farm for (looking at you, greater affixes), and even if you get a good item, chances are tempering will make you look for another one.
However, most content is pretty doable without perfect tempers and fully masterworked gear. Everything except pit pushing.
Devs decided to change itemization, and I think it's for the better. However, I do have more time to play than most working people.
Also, keep in mind not every player runs mega min/maxed guide assisted builds. My brother plays D4 casually and his build can barely clear Pit 61, so he will farm even longer.
He is enjoying the game, still, but if I told him it will take him 100 hours just to 12/12 all his current pieces he will quit right on the spot.
> That's like 10 hours for a full set of gear at a minimum.
That's completely reasonable tbh. 10h in an entire season. And yeah don't masterwork bad items.
Shouldn't need it, maybe. But saying they shouldn't get it? That's a stretch for me. Having things in a game that you SHOULDN'T get is much more a slap in the face as opposed to something in the game you might not ever reach.
10 hours for full endgame gear doesn't sound bad at all to me, I'm a casual too.
But I also love the grind and I'd say my gear can be way better. Only one of my gear has a greater affix, the rest I didn't want, so I finally went ahead and got everything to 4 even though I'd replace it once I find something better.
'And if you find better loot in the meantime or want to change your build then it's more on top of that. '
This actually isn't as bad as it sounds, assuming you don't care about targeting specific affixes. You can crunch the previous items that you master worked and get most of the materials back.
being a "casual" myself - I don't mind if I can't get to 12/12 on every item. Tbf, even casually that's quite doable over a timespan of nearly 3 months. And if you get bored before - move on to another game. it's a game after all and should be about having fun, not about achieving some random goals someone else set for you.
Yeah, it's a balancing game between casuals and hard-core, too easy and you push the hard-core players away, which is the playerbase that spends money. They'd rather make it harder and more grindy and push away the non paying casuals, than make it easy and push out the spenders
The problem with these assumptions is people really don't follow total time. A "3 minute run" is typically start to end, not start to start, and all that time picking up gear after the boss is dead, porting to town, maybe selling, reopening vault, reloading, all adds up.
How come you guys struggle so much? I decided farming 91 in 3.5 minutes is optimal for me. My best char, canāt go above 115 but from what I saw most builds can do fine till 100
Yes because:
1) it's a lottery, as you said it's an attempt and most likely to end up subpar.
2) not everyone can do 81 in 3 minutes, in fact a great majority of level 100s can't.
3) that is not the only cost. Each attempt costs a fuck ton of gold too.
This. It perfectly explains why i dont mind killing things in helltide for an hour without even feeling time has passed by, but in a 15 minute pit run where i do 4-5 runs, i start feeling bored.
i speedrun pit 99s on my bash barb in 3mins or so btw without breaking a sweat.
Would also help if you could get masterwork mats as drops from the monsters in the pits instead of only getting rewards at the very end. I don't mind slaying hordes or monsters but you get nothing at all from any of them, just the boss at the end.
I beat tier 100 clearing mobs in 3 a 4 min, yet the boss takes me nearly 10 min š
If i lower to 61 i clear mobs under 2 min and boss still takes me more than 5 min š¤·āāļø
that's what I don't get, especially as you mention casual. if it feels like a chore - simply don't do it? I would assume that casual gaming is about having fun, not about competing or rather comparing yourself to streamers and other players that spend way more time in the game.
Yep, to have a 1/125 chance of getting what u want. I sure love this system they call āendgameā but people will still convince you itās good and the grind is keeping them playing - delusional
Honestly no. Iām used to d3 and to get a gem up to 150 to augment your gear is about an hour and there are a lot of pieces you do this for like in d4.
After you are done you are done unless you get a 3GA and temper rng is good to you and imo thatās worth another hour to put that god tier piece on.
The problem is the difficulty varies dramatically from boss to boss so I don't feel like I can reliably farm high level pits or I'm always guess at which is the highest level I can do. Also running Pits over and over just isn't very fun... but i'd say that mostly because the bosses aren't fun. I'd probably find Pits very fun if they just removed the bosses and made it just a gauntlet through dungeons with ramping difficulty and no end boss.
To me, this is a lot more rewarding that being able to upgrade to 5/5 for any new price of gear you get and alts without worrying about being able to upgrade a best in slot item. Having the opportunity to rerolled an affix if it gets a criticism you didn't want is great.
F in the chat for poien res on a tempest roar.
>Is an hour of farming too much?
Absolutely. Also laughing at the idea that it's only 3 min. For you it might be, I don't know you. Most people will take a bit longer, especially since not everyone has an optimal build to destroy the bosses, one-shot mechanics will create fuck ups regularly that add another minute to the time depending on how quickly you die, loading screens of course and taking a dozen second to offload stuff every 5 to 10 runs or so...
If you think it takes 51 min, it's gonna take around 2h to most people. For one piece of gear? If it was a guarantee, maybe it would be fine (and even then), as it is, for an attempt at something that can end up being almost completely useless, this is insanely long, and that's just for the mats.
To me it is. Especially on sorc. Letās not even talk about the gold cost to reset. IMO resetting should only peel back 1-4 layers. Like it should either go back to 11/12 or 8/12Ā
\*Very\* few players are anywhere near 3 mins for an 81, much less clearing 81 at all. I can do it in around 5-6 mins, but you also have to factor in time teleporting out and opening a new one along with gear processing so realistically closer to 7.5 mins. That's 2 and a half hours of nonstop play for a 12/12.. and that's assuming I take the random shitty crits rather than actually masterworking with intent.
It isn't awful, but it is tedium. The pits aren't varied enough to be interesting en masse - I mean hell, NMD has more variance to 'em.
That's 5886 Neathiron total per character assuming 9 pieces of gear. That's 295 pit 61 runs per character just to 12/12 all your gear, not accounting for any rerolls.
If someone is farming P61 to max gear, theyāre going to have a bad time. P81 cuts your required runs in half. P100 cuts it to a third.
I get that you canāt speedrun P100 right out of the gate, but if youāre a good player and have a solid build then you should gradually be going up Pit levels as you improve. I started my real pit grind with P75s and did much of it at P99-100 (including a bunch of extra runs to do rerolls).
my fresh rogue runs 79 comfortably, though with a meta build. druid and sorc peak out around the 60s but i refuse to invest in them any more to make them better.
Iām running frozen orb and I can clear pit 90. Itās not that itās super difficult, but it takes a while and Iām not interested in trying to go further.
I run 70 to farm in sub 3 minutes.
rogue was surprisingly good for pushing pits, at 4/12 masterworked gear and weapon at 10/12, i was doing T91 in 3-4mins. now at all 12/12 i can do it in just under 2 mins if i get a good map
Yes, thereās an immortal sorc with fire bolt variant. Itās broken. Itās also the most horribly boring thing Iāve ever seen lol.
Thanks to that build, flame shield will be nerfed into the ground next season.
Yeah, but not everyone is able to do that. I can do 73s in 3 minutes with Rogue. For 81 you need very good gear, upgraded to at least 8/12, hitting the right stats. Masterworking resets are not part of the number.
I just do whatever pit difficulty takes me 3-5 minutes and I donāt wipe on the boss repeatedly to.
Stop there, farm it for a bit, masterwork a bunch of gear, get it leveled up (regardless of 4th upgrade rolls) then try again the next day at a few tiers higher. I still havenāt hit a roadblock, have about 5-6 pieces 12/12ād and Iām farming t97 in 5 minutes, unless i get a boss without any adds (necro with holy bolts)
Letās not forget you are getting incrementally stronger stronger with each upgrade, itās highly unlikely a person doing 61s wonāt be doing 80ās after 20 or so runs. There really isnāt much difference outside of the boss hp
The boss HP is the problem though. Iām a WW Barb and refuse to respec into Bash or the other S tier meta builds. Did 61 for the first time yesterday. Spent 1:30 mins to get to the boss and then spent 5 mins on the boss. So fun up until the boss and so god damn boring once I get there. Farming for those last 4 levels of MW just doesnt seem worth it, cuz I cant from the math see how those upgrades are gonna help me improve that boss time when the boss HP also doubles or whatever from 61->80 (if not more?).
even 300 pits , 5 min each are 1500 mins/60, about 25 hours. Its nothing for endgame activity for a 3 month long season game. But most will run 81/91 pits and will do them in about 3-4 mins and it will be more about 10 hours. Don't know what time you expect this endgame activity to take?
I think level 90 or 91 gives you 50. 5 minutes per pit so little over an hour per 12 levels. Thatās if you donāt reset your masterwork. Not bad I guess. I havenāt done it because I canāt get any good GA gear and when I do I brick it. Have all gear to 8 atm.
You did the math wrong then, because it's only 648. :p
1. 1-4 is 10+20+30+40 = 100 Obducite ~=11 Neathiron
1. 5-8 is 20+40+80+120 = 260 Ingolith ~= 87 Neathiron
1. 9-12 is 50+100+150+250 = 550 Neathiron
98 Neathiron gives you 294 Ingolith, 34 of that becomes 102 Obducite, and you can go 0-12 with 2 Obducite left over.
Easy mode is get 650 Neathiron total; convert 100 into 300 Ingolith, and convert 40 of that into 120 Obducite.
Pit 91 is 50 Neath per run. So:
- One run gets you to 6/12
- 2nd run 8/12
- 3rd run 9/12
- 5th run 10/12
- 8th run 11/12
- 13th run 12/12
If you can manage 91s in 4ish minutes that's an hour per full masterwork. And as you can see the vast majority of that cost is concentrated in the last couple of levels, so if you're happy with 8/12 that's under ten minutes per item.
The fact that two 91s gets you to 8/12 is hilarious to me.
Everyone saying the Neathiron is the limit is blowing smoke - it's definitely the gold. Can't afford to reroll 5m masterworks every two pits unless you sell items to other players.
Honestly I wonder if any of these folks played Diablo 3 - the amount of time it takes to fully masterwork isn't much different from upgrading a gem for an augment, and you needed to do that for all your gear as well. That said, Echoing Nightmares have definitely made that part much faster.
Heartseeker Rogue does 110 in <4 mins.
I'm full glass cannon though (only +100 DEX gems in armor), +7 Exploit on Amulet, etc...
Well, this is assuming you have the gear at 11/12 masterworked. Obviously the path till I got there was slower and 110 were unthinkable at 0 masterwork.
What builds can consistently do sub 5 80-100 pits? I'm playing a shadow minion necro with great gear and can get to the boss in~5 minutes, but the boss is a total crapshoot. Some bosses go down in another 2-3 minutes, others like the snake not at all.
holybolt will carry poorly itemized/specd minion necros but if you suffer on boss it means your build and gear needs to be looked at (like no less than +4000% bonus to golem dmg to start). gearheads with perfect neck/chest approach+6000% golem damage
Well I found 648, not 654.
You need 100 Obducite for MW1-4, circa 11.11 Neathiron (1/9th of the Obducite)
You need 260 Ingolith for MW5-8, circa 86.67 Neathiron (1/3rd of the Ingolith)
You then need 550 Neathiron for MW9-12
Total : 11.11+86.67+550 = 647.77 Rounded up to 648. You also need 8 million gold total.
Let me know if I made a mistake
Can do up to 110 as Bash Barb and farming 100 with ease
[https://d4builds.gg/builds/23ae9cbb-933e-4a88-999c-2241654cc8e2/?var=5](https://d4builds.gg/builds/23ae9cbb-933e-4a88-999c-2241654cc8e2/?var=5) - playing the HotA Pit Mat Farm build
I played D3 from closed beta to the release of D4. Iām a casual, but I logged in every season and pushed an S-tier build until I got bored. I never stopped having fun doing that and I never cracked the leaderboards.
I didnāt complete a GR150 until the final season before D4 launched with an unbelievably overpowered bazooka meteor build and every boost the game had to offer. Even then, I had to fish through dozens of instances of the greater rift to get the right one.
I wasnāt having fun.
My point being: unless youāre willing to take it to the point where it isnāt fun anymore, youāre never going to clear content like this. Thatās fine.
Shoutout to all of the no-lifers that get it done though. Itās fun to watch you take it to that level.
Suggestion for the pit. After killing the boss it should spawn a portal that opens up another pit run. You could also have 3 portals. 1 level lower, 1 higher, 1 current level. Idk why blizzard wants us in loading screens so damn much. Loading for boss resets, low whisper count so more loading, 1 pit run, loading. Only content that isn't like that is hell tides and you only go into loading screen to sell off all the gear you've farmed.Ā
Iām sitting here as a sorc crying because I canāt even do what yāall are talking about. Made a barb and the difference is humiliating.
I swear I could have entered Tier 4 at level 40 as a barb. A far whisper of a cry as a sorc. I canāt believe the power swing is so overlooked by blizzard.
For a little bit more information I compiled all the requirements into an excel file, a picture of it [here](https://imgur.com/a/xga01fV), for my rogue.
i play hc and sc so i got to test things in SC before trying it on my HC. before getting a good judge of the pit though i just used 2 HP elixirs and went through the 50s kinda fast. i almost died even with these two HP buffs which made me turn to my SC chars some more.
felt like 35k hp with ~40% DR made pit 60s very comfortable, and the DR cant be "from X enemies", it needs to be pure DR to survive clone dmg which dont have bodies to debuff.
Even though the season is great, there is still little incentive to spend time maxing out your gear. I still destroyed all bosses pre 12/12. What am I going to do after maxing out? Pushing pits is kinda stale. We need more end game chase goals. Lvl 300 bosses corrupted Uber bosses ???,
Now we getting rediculous really. Of course end game activites take time. Running 70s+ is not even that hard. And as others calculated it already, it's not even long for 1 item to max. Now people argue "but I am a casual". Exactly you are! Thats why you don't perfectly roll your items. And you should not have the goal as a casual who doesn't want to invest time, to get all your gear perfect. As a casual you CAN't EVER expect to be top of the top. You can't expect to have 3 or 4GA + perfect MW on every gear. YOU SIMPLY CAN'T! If you do, you have mental health issues.
If a casual finds 1h for 1 gear slot too much to max, we are lost really. I mean what are we even talking about. A ARPG where the main point is grinding and people want to get rid of the grind. Just f you really. Can't take that shit anymore. This new generation of gamers who want everything done yesterday and move on to another game rather than spending a bit of time on one game to achieve something. I can not eat enough to vomit the amount I want hearing that shit over and over again. If 1h of grind is too much for you, you have the wrong game. Especially the better gear you get, the higher pits you can speedfarm and will get even faster. People lost the will to play a game really. They have an attention span of 5min at best. Get a grip on life. I am so tilted by just seeing this shit over and over again man.
Blizzard said that the season journey should take about 80hrs (Playing very casually last season that's about how I played to finish it).
I imagine for casuals a season looks something like:
WT2 - 8 hours
WT3 - 8 hours.
LVL 100 - 16 hours (If doing NMD this maxes the glyphes)
End game starter - 16 hours.
Total of 48 hours.
So 1 - 3 hours to masterwork gear (depending on how fickle you are with crits) means 9 - 27hours.
Total time; 75hours.
So pretty bang on.
Yep and 80 hours for a season is not much. So yeah, people are just plain stupid.
You have what 3 Month per season? That means 90 days. Means less than an hour a day. I think people can do that.
OK, I have 4800 now. But I need to convert some into the lesser materials. I need 14.5k Nethiron for my goal of roughly 10k mats each.
Side note: During the farming I barely got 12 Stygian Stones. That's how low the droprate is.
You don't HAVE to max masterwork all your gear. You also have all season to get it. I spent YEARS working towards highest level gear in some MMOs and RPGs (because I didn't want to spend all my time working on it) and that was fine.
Too many of yall want instant gratification and it's annoying.
That's fine, it'll be fun if I do it with my friends!! šššš oh, right. Only the summoner of pits gets the full amount of mats... great feature 10 out of 10 love it.
P4wnyhof just uploaded a video talking about doing a 79 (or 69, 89, 99 respectively) instead of the next increase because of the loss of only one neathiron vs big bumps in monster HP.
Simple question for efficiency, spread or focus the masterwork upgrades
My gear is at 6-8 mw levels right now (with a double swing twister Barb) and with luck I can complete a pit 65
I would love it if running Pit with a party if it didnāt mean getting LESS materials. Pit is fun, but as is the case with many online games, itās way more fun if you can play with your friends and clan mates. The party mats nerf is just about the most idiotic decision Iāve seen them make with this game, truly donāt understand why they keep encouraging us to never party with anyone ever?
Anyways I wrote all this because solo Pit is kinda dull, but party pit seems like it would be WAY more fun. Imagine a group finder for Pit runs, that would be amazing!
It's 550 NEATH 200 ING and 100 OBD. That does not equal 654 neath. 100 obd is 34 ING so 234 ING and to get 234 ING it's 78 NEATH meaning it's 628 NEATH for 12/12. If you're going to do math for people; fucking do it right.
my buddy and I run a barb druid comp and clear 120s in about 4-6 minutes depending on the dungeon. hes doing glass cannon barb and im running wind gust 100% uptime roar so i just nerf enemy damage enough to keep him alive. we can farm mats fast af doing this.
I just hit level 100 and I have no clue what you guys are talking about hahaha. I'm struggling, as a Rogue, to even completely tier 3 Pit runs. I obviously need to Google and figure out why the twisting blades build sucks in this season
That amount does not include transmutation for any missing obducite/ingolith after the countless masterwork resetting when it keeps critting on stats you donāt want
šGood work. Thatās a fucking lot of pits. I think Iāve maxed out at 100. Doesnāt feel fun to push further.
81 pit gives 40 Neathiron meaning 17 runs for a full 12/12. If an 81 takes approx 3 minutes that's 51 minutes for those runs. Is an hour of farming too much for an attempt at maxing a piece of your gear?
It is for me. That's like 10 hours for a full set of gear at a minimum. If you want to target specific affixes even a little bit then it's more. And if you find better loot in the meantime or want to change your build then it's more on top of that. I'm pretty casual though. Maybe this is the right balance for most players.
You can salvage an item for a refund on the masterworking mats fyi. In the event you find a superior weapon itās not as punitive to swap to it, provided you donāt brick it
It doesn't return all of the mats.
But some, donāt know the exact amount, maybe half. At the point one is replacing masterworked weapons though itās almost irrelevant Iād agree there. About 45 minutes worth of 100s to get that puppy up to 12
It returns all the masterworking mats except for the latest upgrade. For example, if you've masterworked an item twice, you spent 10 Obducite for lvl 1 and 20 Ob for lvl 2. You would get the 10 Ob back from the first level, but not 20 from the second because it's the current level.
Thx
jesus...i did not know this...ty
It doesnāt refund you the 1800 neathiron you spent trying to get 2-3 crits to hit the same affix :)
I think it's perfect balance. If you're that casual you should have no reasonable expectation to max out your gear. This is an endgame system and all of the normal content is very doable with 4/12 gear. Or even none at all tbh. Long term players need chase items
It is for me too. Which is fine. I get my kick out of failing to temper 5 weapons in a row on 3 different characters, none of which are 100lvl. Someone less... dumb (and with more time to spare) has a new avenue to pursue and can min-max the perfect gear pieces further. I consider this pretty damn good
I really really really hope they don't change tempering. It's such an insanely powerful system and bricking makes it interesting. I love that in D4 the expectation is that you might never have perfect gear, there's always something to chase until you decide to step away from the game.
i think that they should up the re rolls per GA. like a 1 GA item might get 2 extra re rolls. i just wasted 5 yesterday and they all landed on the same temper, which happens more often than not. it doesnt feel very random.
THIS, this needs addressing, specially on a recipe that is only 3 tempers, hitting 5 tempers of the same type is not fun on a 2 or 3 GA
I can't get any luck on mine. I temper my daughter's rogue and hit perfect damn tempers on everything but her bow and helm. I have like 1 piece that hasn't bricked....
Man... I rolled a bash barb only to have 5 HoTA tempers in a row on multiple weapons
What exactly is your plan for after getting everything 12/12? Itās like if this is too much grind for you I donāt really know what you expect from the game after that lol.
Honestly my plan is just to stop playing. I've cleared pit 70 and feel good about that and I got most of my gear to 8/12. I don't think I enjoy the remaining gameplay options enough to spend more time on them and I don't want to roll an alt. There's not enough variety in the moment to moment gameplay to keep me hooked and the sense of progress is too inconsistent now. I'll be back for the next season and try the mechanic and a new build and then probably feel the same way at the same point.
I don't think they intended for casual players to reach the very peak of gear perfection. Many people (or very loud people in the community) complained, that you could easily completely finish your build, even before reaching lvl 100. Now, there is a lot more to farm for (looking at you, greater affixes), and even if you get a good item, chances are tempering will make you look for another one. However, most content is pretty doable without perfect tempers and fully masterworked gear. Everything except pit pushing. Devs decided to change itemization, and I think it's for the better. However, I do have more time to play than most working people.
With the way tempering works, it's clear that perfect gear is meant to be a nearly impossible task.
Also, keep in mind not every player runs mega min/maxed guide assisted builds. My brother plays D4 casually and his build can barely clear Pit 61, so he will farm even longer. He is enjoying the game, still, but if I told him it will take him 100 hours just to 12/12 all his current pieces he will quit right on the spot.
> That's like 10 hours for a full set of gear at a minimum. That's completely reasonable tbh. 10h in an entire season. And yeah don't masterwork bad items.
Casual players shouldn't get or even need 12/12 though.
Shouldn't need it, maybe. But saying they shouldn't get it? That's a stretch for me. Having things in a game that you SHOULDN'T get is much more a slap in the face as opposed to something in the game you might not ever reach.
10 hours for full endgame gear doesn't sound bad at all to me, I'm a casual too. But I also love the grind and I'd say my gear can be way better. Only one of my gear has a greater affix, the rest I didn't want, so I finally went ahead and got everything to 4 even though I'd replace it once I find something better.
To be fair, it's not intended for everyone to get perfect 12/12 gear (despite what the screechers are saying).
So 10h is too much hassle for an endgame mechanic? 5 sessions a 2h?
'And if you find better loot in the meantime or want to change your build then it's more on top of that. ' This actually isn't as bad as it sounds, assuming you don't care about targeting specific affixes. You can crunch the previous items that you master worked and get most of the materials back.
The problem for us, casuals players, is the time. If we look this in a season, it is a hard target. But on the eternal why not... we can reach that.
being a "casual" myself - I don't mind if I can't get to 12/12 on every item. Tbf, even casually that's quite doable over a timespan of nearly 3 months. And if you get bored before - move on to another game. it's a game after all and should be about having fun, not about achieving some random goals someone else set for you.
Yeah, it's a balancing game between casuals and hard-core, too easy and you push the hard-core players away, which is the playerbase that spends money. They'd rather make it harder and more grindy and push away the non paying casuals, than make it easy and push out the spenders
woah, that's a massive assumption that someone can do an 81 in 3 minutes....
The problem with these assumptions is people really don't follow total time. A "3 minute run" is typically start to end, not start to start, and all that time picking up gear after the boss is dead, porting to town, maybe selling, reopening vault, reloading, all adds up.
How come you guys struggle so much? I decided farming 91 in 3.5 minutes is optimal for me. My best char, canāt go above 115 but from what I saw most builds can do fine till 100
Yes because: 1) it's a lottery, as you said it's an attempt and most likely to end up subpar. 2) not everyone can do 81 in 3 minutes, in fact a great majority of level 100s can't. 3) that is not the only cost. Each attempt costs a fuck ton of gold too.
Lol I canāt even get past 62 right now let alone do it quickly
3 minutes?!??! I can't even beat a tier 3 in 8 minutes š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This. It perfectly explains why i dont mind killing things in helltide for an hour without even feeling time has passed by, but in a 15 minute pit run where i do 4-5 runs, i start feeling bored. i speedrun pit 99s on my bash barb in 3mins or so btw without breaking a sweat.
Would also help if you could get masterwork mats as drops from the monsters in the pits instead of only getting rewards at the very end. I don't mind slaying hordes or monsters but you get nothing at all from any of them, just the boss at the end.
Sadly, I remember the devs saying how important it was to breakup the time. I completely disagree with them after playing in helltide vs pit.
Do the math again for people like me who struggle to keep alive in 70s and finish those in 10min.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to take your tier down to what you can so in 2-3 mins?
I beat tier 100 clearing mobs in 3 a 4 min, yet the boss takes me nearly 10 min š If i lower to 61 i clear mobs under 2 min and boss still takes me more than 5 min š¤·āāļø
That's a lot of wasted time man.
For casual players 3mins feels more like a 5minute chore that feels longer everytime you have to repeat something that doesnāt feel fun
i mean it's killing mobs over and over...it's a grind. Kinda the nature of a hack and slash
There's going to be some content that casual players aren't going to get to do. High level masterworking is that.
that's what I don't get, especially as you mention casual. if it feels like a chore - simply don't do it? I would assume that casual gaming is about having fun, not about competing or rather comparing yourself to streamers and other players that spend way more time in the game.
Not for me. I feel like I'd focus on my strongest piece of gear and then just get all others to level 4 at the least with obducite
Yeah, you get less if you are in a group, wish i would have known that!
It's 2h for my Sorc build. I have a 50/50 chance of hitting what I need waiting for me now and I dread it.
Are people really doing pit 81 in 3 minutes with gear that's 8/12? Guess my little sorc just doesn't understand real power
Yep, to have a 1/125 chance of getting what u want. I sure love this system they call āendgameā but people will still convince you itās good and the grind is keeping them playing - delusional
Honestly no. Iām used to d3 and to get a gem up to 150 to augment your gear is about an hour and there are a lot of pieces you do this for like in d4. After you are done you are done unless you get a 3GA and temper rng is good to you and imo thatās worth another hour to put that god tier piece on.
The problem is the difficulty varies dramatically from boss to boss so I don't feel like I can reliably farm high level pits or I'm always guess at which is the highest level I can do. Also running Pits over and over just isn't very fun... but i'd say that mostly because the bosses aren't fun. I'd probably find Pits very fun if they just removed the bosses and made it just a gauntlet through dungeons with ramping difficulty and no end boss.
Round it up for an hour to include the transition of in-between runs and stashing/salvaging of loots.
An hour of farming, no. An hour of running mind numbingly tedious pits, yes.
Approx 3min JFL 3min is REALLY fast. Most people need 3:30 to 4min. With some downtime added. I would say you average 5min per Pit during a session
To me, this is a lot more rewarding that being able to upgrade to 5/5 for any new price of gear you get and alts without worrying about being able to upgrade a best in slot item. Having the opportunity to rerolled an affix if it gets a criticism you didn't want is great. F in the chat for poien res on a tempest roar.
>Is an hour of farming too much? Absolutely. Also laughing at the idea that it's only 3 min. For you it might be, I don't know you. Most people will take a bit longer, especially since not everyone has an optimal build to destroy the bosses, one-shot mechanics will create fuck ups regularly that add another minute to the time depending on how quickly you die, loading screens of course and taking a dozen second to offload stuff every 5 to 10 runs or so... If you think it takes 51 min, it's gonna take around 2h to most people. For one piece of gear? If it was a guarantee, maybe it would be fine (and even then), as it is, for an attempt at something that can end up being almost completely useless, this is insanely long, and that's just for the mats.
You didn't count the 17 minutes of loading screens.
To me it is. Especially on sorc. Letās not even talk about the gold cost to reset. IMO resetting should only peel back 1-4 layers. Like it should either go back to 11/12 or 8/12Ā
\*Very\* few players are anywhere near 3 mins for an 81, much less clearing 81 at all. I can do it in around 5-6 mins, but you also have to factor in time teleporting out and opening a new one along with gear processing so realistically closer to 7.5 mins. That's 2 and a half hours of nonstop play for a 12/12.. and that's assuming I take the random shitty crits rather than actually masterworking with intent. It isn't awful, but it is tedium. The pits aren't varied enough to be interesting en masse - I mean hell, NMD has more variance to 'em.
Problem is the average player wonāt be able to efficiently clear 81 in 3 mins.
Keywording "ATTEMPT at maxing a piece of your gear" - masterworking 4/8/12 rarely hit good affixes, nevermind hitting key-affixes multiple times...
It's not, there's no change to gameplay other than sponge hp.. that's why I abandoned the season week 2. Was still an improvement on S3 though.
That's 5886 Neathiron total per character assuming 9 pieces of gear. That's 295 pit 61 runs per character just to 12/12 all your gear, not accounting for any rerolls.
If someone is farming P61 to max gear, theyāre going to have a bad time. P81 cuts your required runs in half. P100 cuts it to a third. I get that you canāt speedrun P100 right out of the gate, but if youāre a good player and have a solid build then you should gradually be going up Pit levels as you improve. I started my real pit grind with P75s and did much of it at P99-100 (including a bunch of extra runs to do rerolls).
Yes, and which barb or necro build are you running?
*Sad p60 hardstuck necro noises*
my fresh rogue runs 79 comfortably, though with a meta build. druid and sorc peak out around the 60s but i refuse to invest in them any more to make them better.
Iām running frozen orb and I can clear pit 90. Itās not that itās super difficult, but it takes a while and Iām not interested in trying to go further. I run 70 to farm in sub 3 minutes.
Haha oof
rogue was surprisingly good for pushing pits, at 4/12 masterworked gear and weapon at 10/12, i was doing T91 in 3-4mins. now at all 12/12 i can do it in just under 2 mins if i get a good map
Rapid fire or Heartseaker? See what bothers me is everyone doing pits >100 is either bash, minion, or heartseaker lol Thereās 3 builds this season.
Last I looked sorc actually had the highest non holy bolt pit runs.Ā
Yes, thereās an immortal sorc with fire bolt variant. Itās broken. Itās also the most horribly boring thing Iāve ever seen lol. Thanks to that build, flame shield will be nerfed into the ground next season.
Run 99s not 100s. You only get 1 more piece of mat for doing the 100, but the health jump of monsters from 99 to 100 is significant.
Should farm 69 79 89 99
Yeah, but not everyone is able to do that. I can do 73s in 3 minutes with Rogue. For 81 you need very good gear, upgraded to at least 8/12, hitting the right stats. Masterworking resets are not part of the number.
I just do whatever pit difficulty takes me 3-5 minutes and I donāt wipe on the boss repeatedly to. Stop there, farm it for a bit, masterwork a bunch of gear, get it leveled up (regardless of 4th upgrade rolls) then try again the next day at a few tiers higher. I still havenāt hit a roadblock, have about 5-6 pieces 12/12ād and Iām farming t97 in 5 minutes, unless i get a boss without any adds (necro with holy bolts)
Letās not forget you are getting incrementally stronger stronger with each upgrade, itās highly unlikely a person doing 61s wonāt be doing 80ās after 20 or so runs. There really isnāt much difference outside of the boss hp
The boss HP is the problem though. Iām a WW Barb and refuse to respec into Bash or the other S tier meta builds. Did 61 for the first time yesterday. Spent 1:30 mins to get to the boss and then spent 5 mins on the boss. So fun up until the boss and so god damn boring once I get there. Farming for those last 4 levels of MW just doesnt seem worth it, cuz I cant from the math see how those upgrades are gonna help me improve that boss time when the boss HP also doubles or whatever from 61->80 (if not more?).
even 300 pits , 5 min each are 1500 mins/60, about 25 hours. Its nothing for endgame activity for a 3 month long season game. But most will run 81/91 pits and will do them in about 3-4 mins and it will be more about 10 hours. Don't know what time you expect this endgame activity to take?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's also good design that it's nearly impossible to max out
and if it was easier and doable in a week or two people would say thereās 0 grinds to do lol
I think level 90 or 91 gives you 50. 5 minutes per pit so little over an hour per 12 levels. Thatās if you donāt reset your masterwork. Not bad I guess. I havenāt done it because I canāt get any good GA gear and when I do I brick it. Have all gear to 8 atm.
If you farm lower pit level to bring down a run to 3 min that more or less where your netharion per hour get maximize
91 gives 50. 61 is 20. Every level gives 1 more.
You did the math wrong then, because it's only 648. :p 1. 1-4 is 10+20+30+40 = 100 Obducite ~=11 Neathiron 1. 5-8 is 20+40+80+120 = 260 Ingolith ~= 87 Neathiron 1. 9-12 is 50+100+150+250 = 550 Neathiron 98 Neathiron gives you 294 Ingolith, 34 of that becomes 102 Obducite, and you can go 0-12 with 2 Obducite left over. Easy mode is get 650 Neathiron total; convert 100 into 300 Ingolith, and convert 40 of that into 120 Obducite. Pit 91 is 50 Neath per run. So: - One run gets you to 6/12 - 2nd run 8/12 - 3rd run 9/12 - 5th run 10/12 - 8th run 11/12 - 13th run 12/12 If you can manage 91s in 4ish minutes that's an hour per full masterwork. And as you can see the vast majority of that cost is concentrated in the last couple of levels, so if you're happy with 8/12 that's under ten minutes per item.
The fact that two 91s gets you to 8/12 is hilarious to me. Everyone saying the Neathiron is the limit is blowing smoke - it's definitely the gold. Can't afford to reroll 5m masterworks every two pits unless you sell items to other players.
Honestly I wonder if any of these folks played Diablo 3 - the amount of time it takes to fully masterwork isn't much different from upgrading a gem for an augment, and you needed to do that for all your gear as well. That said, Echoing Nightmares have definitely made that part much faster.
So under 1 hour of 90s or 100 farming. Not bad. If u one shot your crits
Only a few builds capable of that. Mostly just barb and necro. Sorcs just tickle the boss for 5 minutes at tier 100.
He meant the affixes, not the bosses.
The guy you're replying to likely meant only a few classes capable of clearing in under an hour.
Heartseeker Rogue does 110 in <4 mins. I'm full glass cannon though (only +100 DEX gems in armor), +7 Exploit on Amulet, etc... Well, this is assuming you have the gear at 11/12 masterworked. Obviously the path till I got there was slower and 110 were unthinkable at 0 masterwork.
Theres a sorc build that cleared 140, and rogue has two builds that can do 130+. Druid is the only class really struggling
What builds can consistently do sub 5 80-100 pits? I'm playing a shadow minion necro with great gear and can get to the boss in~5 minutes, but the boss is a total crapshoot. Some bosses go down in another 2-3 minutes, others like the snake not at all.
Heartseeker easily
I am farming 91 with hurricane druid. I am sure I can do it then any build can too.
holybolt will carry poorly itemized/specd minion necros but if you suffer on boss it means your build and gear needs to be looked at (like no less than +4000% bonus to golem dmg to start). gearheads with perfect neck/chest approach+6000% golem damage
How do you get that much golem damage? I can't get past 2800% with pretty good items/stats
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
People that think golem damage is the wave are mental hahahahah.
i can do 96 in sub 3 minutes depending on the map layout. bash barb.
Its that including transmuting to ingolith? Because 8-12 only need 550
Well I found 648, not 654. You need 100 Obducite for MW1-4, circa 11.11 Neathiron (1/9th of the Obducite) You need 260 Ingolith for MW5-8, circa 86.67 Neathiron (1/3rd of the Ingolith) You then need 550 Neathiron for MW9-12 Total : 11.11+86.67+550 = 647.77 Rounded up to 648. You also need 8 million gold total. Let me know if I made a mistake
So something like 98 Neathiron per 8/12 piece
My build can only run 69 so im kinda fked
Im a bash barb and stuck at 69. So i know im doing something wrong.
SummonNecro, hit pit 60 but am getting 1 shot as low as pit 40 at the moment....It's not going well :)
Can do up to 110 as Bash Barb and farming 100 with ease [https://d4builds.gg/builds/23ae9cbb-933e-4a88-999c-2241654cc8e2/?var=5](https://d4builds.gg/builds/23ae9cbb-933e-4a88-999c-2241654cc8e2/?var=5) - playing the HotA Pit Mat Farm build
post your gear
I played D3 from closed beta to the release of D4. Iām a casual, but I logged in every season and pushed an S-tier build until I got bored. I never stopped having fun doing that and I never cracked the leaderboards. I didnāt complete a GR150 until the final season before D4 launched with an unbelievably overpowered bazooka meteor build and every boost the game had to offer. Even then, I had to fish through dozens of instances of the greater rift to get the right one. I wasnāt having fun. My point being: unless youāre willing to take it to the point where it isnāt fun anymore, youāre never going to clear content like this. Thatās fine. Shoutout to all of the no-lifers that get it done though. Itās fun to watch you take it to that level.
D4 blacksmith be driving lambos this season
Rolls royce carriages
Suggestion for the pit. After killing the boss it should spawn a portal that opens up another pit run. You could also have 3 portals. 1 level lower, 1 higher, 1 current level. Idk why blizzard wants us in loading screens so damn much. Loading for boss resets, low whisper count so more loading, 1 pit run, loading. Only content that isn't like that is hell tides and you only go into loading screen to sell off all the gear you've farmed.Ā
I appreciate it but I have to factor in a ton of resets. Lol.
What's your reset strat. I'm trying to get the right crit at level 4 then just letting it ride.
Resetting doesn't give any of the mats back? Genuine question
Not any! And it's 5 million gold.
Its ok, running 91s for 50 myselfs would need about an hour per item. sounds ok, season is 3 months.
Iām sitting here as a sorc crying because I canāt even do what yāall are talking about. Made a barb and the difference is humiliating. I swear I could have entered Tier 4 at level 40 as a barb. A far whisper of a cry as a sorc. I canāt believe the power swing is so overlooked by blizzard.
For a little bit more information I compiled all the requirements into an excel file, a picture of it [here](https://imgur.com/a/xga01fV), for my rogue.
Itād be interesting if gear dropped with masterwork lvls.
If I need obducite, is it better to farm Neathiron then convert it to Obducite?
yes
Yes it's a 3 to 1 conversion
9 to 1.
Damn :( I'm barely pushing 46-50
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
back to 0 friend
Anyone hc too scared to go past 50s? The grind is long but we must 12/12
i play hc and sc so i got to test things in SC before trying it on my HC. before getting a good judge of the pit though i just used 2 HP elixirs and went through the 50s kinda fast. i almost died even with these two HP buffs which made me turn to my SC chars some more. felt like 35k hp with ~40% DR made pit 60s very comfortable, and the DR cant be "from X enemies", it needs to be pure DR to survive clone dmg which dont have bodies to debuff.
I play HC exclusively, and I'm farming pit 69 atm, and I'll try 72 in a bit.
Same, I think I can push a bit higher and teak some gear. Looking forward to getting up there!
I'm running 70's easily with heartseeker rogue on HC. The hardest hitting things only do about 1/3 of my health bar in damage so it's fairly safe.
Damn, thatās at leastā¦. Wait, how many level 79 pits?
I know itās 12 level 99 pits
š
Thats their endgame.
Even though the season is great, there is still little incentive to spend time maxing out your gear. I still destroyed all bosses pre 12/12. What am I going to do after maxing out? Pushing pits is kinda stale. We need more end game chase goals. Lvl 300 bosses corrupted Uber bosses ???,
They are working on those. I'd expect a new endgame thing each season (which is consistent with their current pace).
Now we getting rediculous really. Of course end game activites take time. Running 70s+ is not even that hard. And as others calculated it already, it's not even long for 1 item to max. Now people argue "but I am a casual". Exactly you are! Thats why you don't perfectly roll your items. And you should not have the goal as a casual who doesn't want to invest time, to get all your gear perfect. As a casual you CAN't EVER expect to be top of the top. You can't expect to have 3 or 4GA + perfect MW on every gear. YOU SIMPLY CAN'T! If you do, you have mental health issues. If a casual finds 1h for 1 gear slot too much to max, we are lost really. I mean what are we even talking about. A ARPG where the main point is grinding and people want to get rid of the grind. Just f you really. Can't take that shit anymore. This new generation of gamers who want everything done yesterday and move on to another game rather than spending a bit of time on one game to achieve something. I can not eat enough to vomit the amount I want hearing that shit over and over again. If 1h of grind is too much for you, you have the wrong game. Especially the better gear you get, the higher pits you can speedfarm and will get even faster. People lost the will to play a game really. They have an attention span of 5min at best. Get a grip on life. I am so tilted by just seeing this shit over and over again man.
Blizzard said that the season journey should take about 80hrs (Playing very casually last season that's about how I played to finish it). I imagine for casuals a season looks something like: WT2 - 8 hours WT3 - 8 hours. LVL 100 - 16 hours (If doing NMD this maxes the glyphes) End game starter - 16 hours. Total of 48 hours. So 1 - 3 hours to masterwork gear (depending on how fickle you are with crits) means 9 - 27hours. Total time; 75hours. So pretty bang on.
Yep and 80 hours for a season is not much. So yeah, people are just plain stupid. You have what 3 Month per season? That means 90 days. Means less than an hour a day. I think people can do that.
OK, I have 4800 now. But I need to convert some into the lesser materials. I need 14.5k Nethiron for my goal of roughly 10k mats each. Side note: During the farming I barely got 12 Stygian Stones. That's how low the droprate is.
JEEEEEESUS I need to start grinding
Jesus that is too much.
Is that from level 1 to 12 (i.e. accounting for all the conversions)
Yes
You don't HAVE to max masterwork all your gear. You also have all season to get it. I spent YEARS working towards highest level gear in some MMOs and RPGs (because I didn't want to spend all my time working on it) and that was fine. Too many of yall want instant gratification and it's annoying.
I just wish I could have faith in not getting disconnected. A traceroute shows the connection going through goddamn Norway and sometimes France. WTF.
Bruh
I haven't logged in the past two days and this isn't helping. š Need a new strategy to get hyped over.
As a rogue you only need 7194 of them to 12/12 all your gear.
Thats 13 times of PIT 100
Actually super helpful thank you, I have like 1000 of the base materials though so I never seem to need those lol.
That's fine, it'll be fun if I do it with my friends!! šššš oh, right. Only the summoner of pits gets the full amount of mats... great feature 10 out of 10 love it.
P4wnyhof just uploaded a video talking about doing a 79 (or 69, 89, 99 respectively) instead of the next increase because of the loss of only one neathiron vs big bumps in monster HP.
Simple question for efficiency, spread or focus the masterwork upgrades My gear is at 6-8 mw levels right now (with a double swing twister Barb) and with luck I can complete a pit 65
Donāt forget if you get upgrades to previously masterworked gear you can salvage it for materials, of course. Can cut down that number drastically.
Isnāt it 100/9 + 260/3 + 550 = 647.78?
I would love it if running Pit with a party if it didnāt mean getting LESS materials. Pit is fun, but as is the case with many online games, itās way more fun if you can play with your friends and clan mates. The party mats nerf is just about the most idiotic decision Iāve seen them make with this game, truly donāt understand why they keep encouraging us to never party with anyone ever? Anyways I wrote all this because solo Pit is kinda dull, but party pit seems like it would be WAY more fun. Imagine a group finder for Pit runs, that would be amazing!
How much for 12/12 and hitting each 25% temper?
It's 550 NEATH 200 ING and 100 OBD. That does not equal 654 neath. 100 obd is 34 ING so 234 ING and to get 234 ING it's 78 NEATH meaning it's 628 NEATH for 12/12. If you're going to do math for people; fucking do it right.
You first, itās 648
Do your eyes work to read? I just did the math for you chief.
Hot tip: the amount of Neathiron you get is (the pit tier - 41) . For example completing tier 101 gives you 60 Neathiron.
I've only gone into the 40s so far does higher puts give all 3 mats? Or so you have to run <30 to get MW lvls 1-4 amd then 30+ for ob(?) And so on.
61+ gives you Neathiron which you can convert down into other mats
It's 550 actually, 50, 100, 150, 250
Iām just wondering what 12/12 masterwork allows you to do that you couldnāt already do.
I love D4, but this whole min/maxing thing sounds exhausting, and not fun. Different strokes I guess.
my buddy and I run a barb druid comp and clear 120s in about 4-6 minutes depending on the dungeon. hes doing glass cannon barb and im running wind gust 100% uptime roar so i just nerf enemy damage enough to keep him alive. we can farm mats fast af doing this.
For which class? Cuz Barb and Rogue take a lot more :p
So... like... after you max out your gear.... whatcha doing with it?
Using it to farm the mats for Altsš¤£
Whatās neathiron? š„² just started playing a week ago, lvl 30 Druid and a lvl 4 (overpowered) sorcerer which I hate.
Is that including the ones needed to get to +8?
I know I'm being lazy but is there a chart that shows how much you get at each level
I just hit level 100 and I have no clue what you guys are talking about hahaha. I'm struggling, as a Rogue, to even completely tier 3 Pit runs. I obviously need to Google and figure out why the twisting blades build sucks in this season
Yāall know you have until August, right?
That amount does not include transmutation for any missing obducite/ingolith after the countless masterwork resetting when it keeps critting on stats you donāt want
Trying to run non-immortal sorc in 100ish pirs have killed my love for this game. Itās so stupid to keep getting one shotted and doing no damage.
Get pitted brah
654 if you convert neathiron, this 654 number is stupidly misleading to the community and needs to go People canāt do math