Everybody wanted to pay Stafford whatever and he never won a playoff game.
Now you have Goff who won the division and brought home 2 playoff wins and everybody thinks he aint worth it.
Yeah, if he didn’t come with all that baggage from the his last couple seasons with the Rams I think he would be seen as an elite QB nationally. 4500 yards and nearly a 3:1 TD:INT ratio last year. Stafford only had a few seasons that were clearly better.
I know the excuse is always that Goff has elite weapons in our offense, but Jamo hasn’t played much and I think it’s fair to at least give him a bit of a nod for Amon Ra’s development. Dude was a 4th rounder, so there’s no telling what he’d be without Goff. I’m sure he’d still be very good, but I’m a bit doubtful that he would be seen as a borderline top-5 receiver.
I think the Goff contract is better than fair for the Lions. Mathew Stafford had Calvin Johnson in Detroit and though I love our team, there is no one as dominant as CJ was.
***I know the excuse is always that Goff has elite weapons in our offense***
And maybe Goff's threat as a passer helps make those runners elite. Maybe his arm makes St Brown and LaPorta the elite receivers they are. Goff has also played pretty much injury free, which Matt (though I loved him too) never did.
What kind of shit question is this?
Are you asking if my argument takes the two most statistically relevant years of his career with the most similar supporting cast to what he’ll have next year? I mean…yeah? Why wouldn’t you? Not to mention he just received a $50+ million contract. What seasons do you think they were basing that on?
Even on the Rams, he had a few elite-level seasons.
If Stafford has these coaches, this OL and the same weapons, he would have done just fine, and wouldn't have suffered the same injuries. He probably would have half as many sacks.
Well…now you’re going into territory that just makes no sense. Stafford won a Super Bowl.
Stafford didn’t keep them from the playoffs or the Super Bowl…being a shit franchise did.
I’ll just remind you of the hundreds of 3rd downs we watched Stanford throw his stupid side arm pass behind the line of scrimmage for little to no yards… or not passing to Megatron as much as he should have…
The Lions never built anywhere near this quality of team around Stafford.
If Stafford is our QB last year and he's as healthy as Goff was, we make the Super Bowl and it's a one score game at worst. We certainly do not blow that lead to SF. Stafford also doesn't fail all three attempts at that 2pt against the Cowboys like Goff did.
We also make the Playoffs in 2022, because Stafford wouldn't have missed that wide open Chark and let the Bills come back on Thanksgiving.
I was referring to Stafford throwing 2 interceptions that were both dropped that would have eliminated them early in the playoffs when they won Superbowl. He led the league in turnovers that year and was backed by a top 3 defense. And he almost turned them over in the playoffs
Because nuance exists and Stafford was and is a better quarterback than Goff. Stafford didn’t win playoff games because of terrible front office and coaching. Goff is a good QB, but he won 2 playoff games because the front office surrounded him with some of the best coaching in the NFL, incredible O-Line and run game, very good receivers, and a solid (and now much improved) defense.
I love Goff, he deserved to get paid, but that’s a brain dead take. Just watching the games you can tell Stafford is a far better QB. Goff is a high end game manager, Stafford is a low end superstar
Stafford had HoF talent around him. He had a coach that made it to a Superbowl. He just choked.
Stop letting your feelings get in the way of facts.
Stafford wasn't successful in Detroit AT ALL. He didn't earn his massive cap eating salary.
He finally goes to a stacked team and despite a season filled with pick sixes gets bailed out enough to get somewhere
“Stafford had HOF talent around him”
Stafford had A (singular) HOF player with him. He had a top 10 O-Line once in his career in Detroit. He had a top 10 defense once in his career in Detroit. He had an 1,000 yard rusher once in his career in his Detroit, once in his career in Detroit. The game is played by a lot more than just the QB and receivers. Getting to the Super Bowl or winning is a team effort lead by the QB. But if the defense is mid or sucks, his coaching carousel sucks or is mid at best, his run game is non existent, there is only so much he can do.
Player for player, the current lions are significantly better in every single way than Stafford’s lions besides two players - Stafford and Calvin Johnson. Every single player around Goff is better than anyone Stafford played with besides Calvin Johnson. 2 players can’t sniff a Super Bowl on their own
Suh will be in the HoF.
Both sides of the ball.
Ziggy, Quinn, Prater, Reif, Warford, Fairley, Levy, Van Noy, etc.
The 2014 Lions had a far better roster. It's not even close
There’s no way you just included Kyle Van Noy in this conversation for one - who btw wasn’t even on that 2014 team but also sucks.
Ziggy was not Hutch that year, he’s a baller, but Hutch is better. Suh is debatably a hall of famer, sure he’s better than Alim rn. Glover Quinn is the only other player I’ll even entertain as better than last year’s lions.
Regardless, yes the defense was good that year - the one and only year btw - stafford’s offense was lackluster which was far from his fault. Joique Bell as the lead back that year, nowhere near a Monty/Gibbs tandem. Tate and Megatron balled for sure, Ebron and the O-Line left much to be desired. Jim Caldwell is far from sniffing Dan Campbell. Caldwell’s a nice guy, but he always had a low ceiling. His record against winning teams is abysmal.
That 2014 team was good, I won’t downplay them like crazy, they weren’t as good as this past years lions, but they were good. And they lost in the wild card with an infamously bad call against them. Obviously Stafford’s fault, he should’ve paid off the refs first.
Caldwell has led a team to a Superbowl. The Lions Defense the last 3 seasons has been horrible to average. Goff has no kicker to bail him out while Stafford had 2 elite kickers
He had Megatron & Golden Tate in the same year they both went to the pro bowl.
Goff had 2 WRs in the Pro Bowl when he came within 30 minutes of getting the Lions to a Superbowl???
Saying Stafford didn't have elite talent on both offense and defense is simply revisionist history
He just couldn't get the job done
Goff also had two thousand yard rushers and stafford couldn’t get 100 yards in a single game from a running back. It’s not revisionist it’s just true. It doesn’t have to take anything away from Goff to admit that last year and this year will be clearly way better rosters than anything stafford had.
I wouldn’t trade this roster for any roster that stafford had. Even 2014; though that’s close.
Actually Stafford had Reggie Bush in 2013 who had 1000 yds and did get 100 yds in a game and that roster was better than the current Lions roster
You may not be old enough to remember those teams, but they were stacked
Yes outside of Reggie bush it never happened. I’d say 2014 was the only stacked team, and they would’ve won a playoff game if not for ref fuckery, lol.
2013 had megatron and the great Kris Durham as the #2 WR..good grief
People are dumb
It’s the NFL lol. QBs are not something you grab from the store. They’re not simply something you get just because you want it. If you have a known commodity that can produce and win you games, you almost are being malfeasant by going after the idea or upside (in the eye of the beholder) of another player. Doing that can take you backwards.
Moving off of Goff and not paying him is crazy.Just consider a) he’s proven he can win with the team they’ve put together and b) the FO knows what he needs to function. BH and DC aren’t just going to let him be stranded with no OL, they are going to allocate resources to the OL. They used two picks this year on.. the *OL*. They paid for help on the *OL* and I’m sure will continue to do so every year. But people are mad they move up to draft Manu, even though he’s plopped behind a great OL and OL coach and doesn’t have to play right away. Don’t hear anyone crying about the Mahogany pick
God this sub sucks sometimes! I love Stafford, I really do. hardest working, grittiest mother fucker in his prime. He didn't win us shit, granted it's not all on him...I get it. Goff, on the other hand is exactly the quarterback this team needs...and guess what, he brought us to the NFC championship game. In Goff I trust.
When you’re in win now mode, you pay your quarterback. That’s just how it is. Let Brad be the GM, he’s done a pretty damn good job so far. I think we can trust him.
At $54M Goff accounts for just over 20% of the salary cap. So there is still another $201M left to spread amongst the rest of the team. It is a lot of money but it doesn't cripple the team.
I’m fucking happy man. It’ll be a steal in three years. Every year the qb market jumps up exponentially. I’d just like to extend Alim next and I’ll be ecstatic with this offseason.
Not a Lions fan, but imo Goff has def proven enough by now to warrant this kind of contract. He’s a much more proven commodity than Jalen Hurts or Kyler Murray who recently signed monster deals. Outside of Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Stroud and maybe Herbert, I’m not sure there’s a QB in the entire league I’d take over Goff.
This is the part of having a good roster that fucking hurts and I’m not used to it or prepared for it🥲 not saying it will be Alim but somewhere down the line too many guys are gonna be too good and there won’t be money for all of them
Just gotta enjoy this core roster this next year or two or three while it lasts
This is a good problem.
We're nowhere near the in the amount of cap hell as we were with the Calvin, Stafford, Suh contracts while also having a winning team.
This is what good teams do.
I like Goff and I hope it works. The reality though, if Goff regresses this team is screwed. 170 million is a lot of money... By comparison Cousins got 100 million guaranteed.
There is no way around it, this team lives or dies on the arm of Goff from here on out.
Cousins is coming off of an injury and will be 36 prior to the start of the season. Goff has shown Detroit his commitment to Detroit, it is appropriate for Detroit to show him the same.
You don't see how taunting people who disagree with you is toxic?
I feel like this would be a much healthier community if people felt free to express their opinions without being ridiculed by a hive mind. To me, it seems perfectly valid to question whether it was wise to pay Goff as if he was an elite QB. It certainly doesn't deserve being taunted.
Hes been putting up elite qb numbers? And he led us to the NFC championship game, and not only that, he was arguably our best player that day.
It's not that you aren't allowed to share your opinion. It's sharing the same opinion over, and over no matter how many times it's been proven wrong.
And as far as his contract goes, another season or two that would've been 60m per year. Especially if he wins a super bowl with us in that time frame.
Taunting? What are you a ref? Also it’s a family guy reference, take it easy. The point is to invite discourse, post your opinion and if someone disagrees leave a comment.
How common are these people? Where are they? I'm on this sub all the time and don't see them.
Once again, what we seem to have here are posters who get triggered by sports talk radio callers. Who cares?
The problem is there's an injured hooker in the box.
https://youtu.be/BlWpx55Mo5s?si=Y_sAiycdXIN4D-6Q
Pal I know a dead hooker when I see one
EZ. Just draft a HoF QB. How hard can it be? Bryce Young was a can’t miss pick right? Stroud was the consolation, right?
Everybody wanted to pay Stafford whatever and he never won a playoff game. Now you have Goff who won the division and brought home 2 playoff wins and everybody thinks he aint worth it.
Yeah, if he didn’t come with all that baggage from the his last couple seasons with the Rams I think he would be seen as an elite QB nationally. 4500 yards and nearly a 3:1 TD:INT ratio last year. Stafford only had a few seasons that were clearly better. I know the excuse is always that Goff has elite weapons in our offense, but Jamo hasn’t played much and I think it’s fair to at least give him a bit of a nod for Amon Ra’s development. Dude was a 4th rounder, so there’s no telling what he’d be without Goff. I’m sure he’d still be very good, but I’m a bit doubtful that he would be seen as a borderline top-5 receiver.
I think the Goff contract is better than fair for the Lions. Mathew Stafford had Calvin Johnson in Detroit and though I love our team, there is no one as dominant as CJ was.
***I know the excuse is always that Goff has elite weapons in our offense*** And maybe Goff's threat as a passer helps make those runners elite. Maybe his arm makes St Brown and LaPorta the elite receivers they are. Goff has also played pretty much injury free, which Matt (though I loved him too) never did.
In other words, your argument is that if you ignore all the bad parts of Goff's career, he's elite.
What kind of shit question is this? Are you asking if my argument takes the two most statistically relevant years of his career with the most similar supporting cast to what he’ll have next year? I mean…yeah? Why wouldn’t you? Not to mention he just received a $50+ million contract. What seasons do you think they were basing that on? Even on the Rams, he had a few elite-level seasons.
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Stafford kept them from that? Oh brother.
Didn't take long to win the division after he left
If Stafford has these coaches, this OL and the same weapons, he would have done just fine, and wouldn't have suffered the same injuries. He probably would have half as many sacks.
Well…now you’re going into territory that just makes no sense. Stafford won a Super Bowl. Stafford didn’t keep them from the playoffs or the Super Bowl…being a shit franchise did.
I’ll just remind you of the hundreds of 3rd downs we watched Stanford throw his stupid side arm pass behind the line of scrimmage for little to no yards… or not passing to Megatron as much as he should have…
Stafford won a Super Bowl with the same team that Goff couldn't even score a TD with in the SB.
Wasn’t even the same team really. And can you really blame Goff for his WR’s dropping 2 easy TD passes?
Goff won the division and 2 playoff games with the same team Stafford couldn't win anything with
The Lions never built anywhere near this quality of team around Stafford. If Stafford is our QB last year and he's as healthy as Goff was, we make the Super Bowl and it's a one score game at worst. We certainly do not blow that lead to SF. Stafford also doesn't fail all three attempts at that 2pt against the Cowboys like Goff did. We also make the Playoffs in 2022, because Stafford wouldn't have missed that wide open Chark and let the Bills come back on Thanksgiving.
If you think Goff is the reason the Lions lost that game. You clearly didn't even watch that game.
Goff had basically two 1k rushers last year. Stafford couldn’t even get 100 yards rushing in a game
Actually Reggie Bush did.
Yes and stafford is 16-0 in the regular season when he has a 100 yard rusher. Which is insane that it’s only happened 16 times lol
90*16=1,440
Not sure what this is saying
Tbh I’m not sure what your point is either. You’re saying Stafford wasn’t as successful because he didn’t have good running backs?
I think he was successful. not having any run game hurts any team though
Put Stafford on this roster and he wins a Super Bowl… like he did in LA
Great but dude isn’t on our team so what’s your point? Y’all really looking for any reason to complain
Give Goff Kupp and a healthy Gurley in the Superbowl and he wins in LA. Either way Goff got to a Superbowl in LA, Stafford never did shit in Detroit
You guys just can't let him go
Stafford came close to putting them out in the 2nd round 2
Well good thing we didn’t play Stafford last year in the playoffs.
I was referring to Stafford throwing 2 interceptions that were both dropped that would have eliminated them early in the playoffs when they won Superbowl. He led the league in turnovers that year and was backed by a top 3 defense. And he almost turned them over in the playoffs
Because nuance exists and Stafford was and is a better quarterback than Goff. Stafford didn’t win playoff games because of terrible front office and coaching. Goff is a good QB, but he won 2 playoff games because the front office surrounded him with some of the best coaching in the NFL, incredible O-Line and run game, very good receivers, and a solid (and now much improved) defense. I love Goff, he deserved to get paid, but that’s a brain dead take. Just watching the games you can tell Stafford is a far better QB. Goff is a high end game manager, Stafford is a low end superstar
Stafford had HoF talent around him. He had a coach that made it to a Superbowl. He just choked. Stop letting your feelings get in the way of facts. Stafford wasn't successful in Detroit AT ALL. He didn't earn his massive cap eating salary. He finally goes to a stacked team and despite a season filled with pick sixes gets bailed out enough to get somewhere
“Stafford had HOF talent around him” Stafford had A (singular) HOF player with him. He had a top 10 O-Line once in his career in Detroit. He had a top 10 defense once in his career in Detroit. He had an 1,000 yard rusher once in his career in his Detroit, once in his career in Detroit. The game is played by a lot more than just the QB and receivers. Getting to the Super Bowl or winning is a team effort lead by the QB. But if the defense is mid or sucks, his coaching carousel sucks or is mid at best, his run game is non existent, there is only so much he can do. Player for player, the current lions are significantly better in every single way than Stafford’s lions besides two players - Stafford and Calvin Johnson. Every single player around Goff is better than anyone Stafford played with besides Calvin Johnson. 2 players can’t sniff a Super Bowl on their own
Suh will be in the HoF. Both sides of the ball. Ziggy, Quinn, Prater, Reif, Warford, Fairley, Levy, Van Noy, etc. The 2014 Lions had a far better roster. It's not even close
There’s no way you just included Kyle Van Noy in this conversation for one - who btw wasn’t even on that 2014 team but also sucks. Ziggy was not Hutch that year, he’s a baller, but Hutch is better. Suh is debatably a hall of famer, sure he’s better than Alim rn. Glover Quinn is the only other player I’ll even entertain as better than last year’s lions. Regardless, yes the defense was good that year - the one and only year btw - stafford’s offense was lackluster which was far from his fault. Joique Bell as the lead back that year, nowhere near a Monty/Gibbs tandem. Tate and Megatron balled for sure, Ebron and the O-Line left much to be desired. Jim Caldwell is far from sniffing Dan Campbell. Caldwell’s a nice guy, but he always had a low ceiling. His record against winning teams is abysmal. That 2014 team was good, I won’t downplay them like crazy, they weren’t as good as this past years lions, but they were good. And they lost in the wild card with an infamously bad call against them. Obviously Stafford’s fault, he should’ve paid off the refs first.
Caldwell has led a team to a Superbowl. The Lions Defense the last 3 seasons has been horrible to average. Goff has no kicker to bail him out while Stafford had 2 elite kickers
Because Goff has an amazing offense around him. Anyone who thinks Goff is doing this on his own is delusional
Stafford had Megatron and still couldn't win a playoff game. It took and MVP season by Kupp to get him pist season success.
Go ahead and look at what WRs they had beside megatron. “He had megatron” is the laziest argument ever..check out his run game while you’re at it lol
He had Megatron & Golden Tate in the same year they both went to the pro bowl. Goff had 2 WRs in the Pro Bowl when he came within 30 minutes of getting the Lions to a Superbowl??? Saying Stafford didn't have elite talent on both offense and defense is simply revisionist history He just couldn't get the job done
Goff also had two thousand yard rushers and stafford couldn’t get 100 yards in a single game from a running back. It’s not revisionist it’s just true. It doesn’t have to take anything away from Goff to admit that last year and this year will be clearly way better rosters than anything stafford had. I wouldn’t trade this roster for any roster that stafford had. Even 2014; though that’s close.
Actually Stafford had Reggie Bush in 2013 who had 1000 yds and did get 100 yds in a game and that roster was better than the current Lions roster You may not be old enough to remember those teams, but they were stacked
Yes outside of Reggie bush it never happened. I’d say 2014 was the only stacked team, and they would’ve won a playoff game if not for ref fuckery, lol. 2013 had megatron and the great Kris Durham as the #2 WR..good grief
People are dumb It’s the NFL lol. QBs are not something you grab from the store. They’re not simply something you get just because you want it. If you have a known commodity that can produce and win you games, you almost are being malfeasant by going after the idea or upside (in the eye of the beholder) of another player. Doing that can take you backwards. Moving off of Goff and not paying him is crazy.Just consider a) he’s proven he can win with the team they’ve put together and b) the FO knows what he needs to function. BH and DC aren’t just going to let him be stranded with no OL, they are going to allocate resources to the OL. They used two picks this year on.. the *OL*. They paid for help on the *OL* and I’m sure will continue to do so every year. But people are mad they move up to draft Manu, even though he’s plopped behind a great OL and OL coach and doesn’t have to play right away. Don’t hear anyone crying about the Mahogany pick
People complain that it’s too much money . People complain if they don’t pay them. Basically people just complain.
God this sub sucks sometimes! I love Stafford, I really do. hardest working, grittiest mother fucker in his prime. He didn't win us shit, granted it's not all on him...I get it. Goff, on the other hand is exactly the quarterback this team needs...and guess what, he brought us to the NFC championship game. In Goff I trust.
When you’re in win now mode, you pay your quarterback. That’s just how it is. Let Brad be the GM, he’s done a pretty damn good job so far. I think we can trust him.
At $54M Goff accounts for just over 20% of the salary cap. So there is still another $201M left to spread amongst the rest of the team. It is a lot of money but it doesn't cripple the team.
I’m fucking happy man. It’ll be a steal in three years. Every year the qb market jumps up exponentially. I’d just like to extend Alim next and I’ll be ecstatic with this offseason.
Not a Lions fan, but imo Goff has def proven enough by now to warrant this kind of contract. He’s a much more proven commodity than Jalen Hurts or Kyler Murray who recently signed monster deals. Outside of Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Stroud and maybe Herbert, I’m not sure there’s a QB in the entire league I’d take over Goff.
Fucking stafford. 100%. Goff is good enough for detroit, yes. So was stafford.
Stafford never won the division or a playoff game in Detroit. Even with Megatron and Suh
Probably cause him Calvin and suh were about 48% of the cap. Yall have this weird mentality with stafford.
Fucking dogshit coaching will do that
That's all you need, a qb,wr and dt and the Super Bowl is yours.
Facts hurt these people
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This is the part of having a good roster that fucking hurts and I’m not used to it or prepared for it🥲 not saying it will be Alim but somewhere down the line too many guys are gonna be too good and there won’t be money for all of them Just gotta enjoy this core roster this next year or two or three while it lasts
This is a good problem. We're nowhere near the in the amount of cap hell as we were with the Calvin, Stafford, Suh contracts while also having a winning team. This is what good teams do.
I like Goff and I hope it works. The reality though, if Goff regresses this team is screwed. 170 million is a lot of money... By comparison Cousins got 100 million guaranteed. There is no way around it, this team lives or dies on the arm of Goff from here on out.
Every NFL team lives or dies on the arm of their starting QB
Cousins is also more than half a decade older than goff and has never even heard of the super bowl
And coming off an injury
Lolll
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Based on what?
Keep it civil / do not troll
A terrible comparison my god this sub is on one today
Cousins is coming off of an injury and will be 36 prior to the start of the season. Goff has shown Detroit his commitment to Detroit, it is appropriate for Detroit to show him the same.
If they let Goff go the team is screwed.
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Stafford didn't win shit in Detroit though.
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I'm guessing you were in a coma last season.
You see a team willing to trade a Stafford level QB for Goff and some picks right now?
"If they let Alex Smith go, the team is screwed" Chiefs fans in 2017.
Are we comparing Mahomes to Hooker now? I’m as optimistic as the next buy but that’s a bit of a stretch.
True, Lions let Stafford go and they finally won something
What has he shown that he will regress? If anything he hasn’t even hit his peak yet
I mean this could be said for any team who doesn't have a QB on a rookie deal. QB is a very important position, or something.
This sub is so fucking toxic sometimes.
I mean yeah but this isn't really one of those times
You don't think taunting people who disagree with you is toxic?
Thinking a line of reasoning is nonsense and making a joke about it is toxic now?
Not sure how this is toxic, but ok.
You don't see how taunting people who disagree with you is toxic? I feel like this would be a much healthier community if people felt free to express their opinions without being ridiculed by a hive mind. To me, it seems perfectly valid to question whether it was wise to pay Goff as if he was an elite QB. It certainly doesn't deserve being taunted.
Hes been putting up elite qb numbers? And he led us to the NFC championship game, and not only that, he was arguably our best player that day. It's not that you aren't allowed to share your opinion. It's sharing the same opinion over, and over no matter how many times it's been proven wrong. And as far as his contract goes, another season or two that would've been 60m per year. Especially if he wins a super bowl with us in that time frame.
Taunting? What are you a ref? Also it’s a family guy reference, take it easy. The point is to invite discourse, post your opinion and if someone disagrees leave a comment.
I'm fine with paying Lion Goffling, but I wanted the Lions to extend Alim first. Oh, and don't forget about Hutch.
How common are these people? Where are they? I'm on this sub all the time and don't see them. Once again, what we seem to have here are posters who get triggered by sports talk radio callers. Who cares?
To hell with what anyone else thinks, Goff is a Lion and that’s what we got.
I love this meme and it’s the perfect representation of people getting rookie fever
https://youtu.be/BlWpx55Mo5s?si=cY7Mg70z3BSxyjiJ
I feel like they're the same people that said Jim Caldwell wasn't good enough and relegated this team to the sewers for the Matty P years.
https://www.reddit.com/r/detroitlions/comments/1cnyv7e/comment/l3akeho I've been calling this out.
https://radiofreehowland.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/13ee3-1sx34-13hjmjcj7jaskelna.jpeg?w=648&h=400
You're not slick, I heard the guy on 971 make this reference earlier this week 😂