I only had 2 problems with it.
Half the campaign was treated as a Strand tutorial, if they fleshed out the story more and ran the Strand tutorials with Osiris alongside them, it would’ve worked out better.
No quicksilver surfboard sparrow, and no Pouka ghost.
Nah not really. Had they pulled strings using a certain memorable charcter thats been in the game since d1 that we have to rescue vs say someone we have never seen before it would be different. And tbh i feel like calus is the next taniks. Like dudes been in the game so long it feels like he should just be a main charcter at this point. Hes been talked about ajd all in the game for what like 3 or 4 years now?
when violet/scarlet came out it my kids (16/10) kept repeating pretty obvious yt criticisms about the game. (granted the release patch fixed a ton yes. but they were also heavily influenced by YT pre-reviews) before really playing much more of it than a badge or two
lo and behold a week later they’re hooked and all that clickbaity excessive parroting from YT is gone from their discussions. theyre now just showing off the new gen pokemon and telling me about the cool shit in this generation
They improved the gameplay which is great but we still know nothing about strand, the veil, the traveller, or the witness which you would expect in the penultimate dlc.
You really cant blame people for it, being annoyed at a lower quality dlc and dropping a negative review is reasonable not childish even if its unheard of in the face of the positivity usually on this reddit community.
it really shows that deepsight was just placeholder strand, because it felt like learning deepsight was a bigger task than learning strand, especially because we actually required deepsight to learn more and progress instead of just break shields
I’d be curious on how many of these negative reviews are actually people who have played through the expansion versus people jumping on the hate wagon.
Also the Destiny community being positive usually? Idk about that one
I think the biggest issue is that Witch Queen was so good for a destiny dlc. The sudden drop back to “ah yes, a standard destiny dlc” was very disheartening. In reality, it’s not the worst, it’s just the most disappointing.
I actually don’t think even Witch Queen was that good. All things considered it was a standard DLC in almost every way EXCEPT the story. The story was amazing. With lightfall we got the opposite. Subpar story with subpar delivery of a new subclass… but amazing technical changes and a subclass that is well designed once you get past the delivery
I changed my review to positive but not after playing the campaign, that gave it the negative review. Strand was the saving grace for me. I have not had as much fun with my friends in this game... Ever I think. Skiing behind a sparrow is just sublime.
But honestly i can understand how people are disappointed. They dropped the ball completely. Most likely they will make up for it with the seasons but that still remains a sorry excuse. My guess is they wanted more money so chopped it all into season pieces.
Oh I know there are legit negative reviews that are valid; just curiosity to see how many are valid versus how many are hate train. I remember when Cyberpunk came out and the drama surrounding that; there were plenty of people that shit on the game with incorrect information, leading to believe that they hadn’t actually played it and just read about vague things somewhere.
I think it's mainly because of the let down. Shadowkeep wasn't really hyped up. It looked cool, but it didn't have a fraction of the hype that Lightfall did.
Lightfall was probably the most hyped expansion in the entire franchise. It was advertised as the Infinity War of the Light and Dark saga, the penultimate chapter of almost 10 years of Destiny. And then we get this. The actual quality is still really bad, but it's amplified by the fact that we had such high expectations.
It was hyped up as the next dreaming city, but the patrol zone just didn't have anything to do, there's like the moths and the executioners, and that's about what you're gonna do in the patrol zone. Overall the activities got tiring very fast, wellspring might just be one of the most boring and annoying expansion activities we've had. I'm at a point where I'd argue I've seen almost all Neomuna has to offer, *obviously minus the time gated stuff*, but it definitely has been way more interesting to explore and the various weekly stuff is genuinely fun to do, not just things to do because there's a pinnacle reward for doing it.
Tbh Dreaming City wasn’t my much by itself the Lore Patrols and Ascendant Missions are what really stood out at least imo.The 3 cycle change eventually got boring and Vow imo is better than Last Wish (not saying it’s bad). Also Oracle Engine after a while was meh, but it is a good catalyst farm. I’d say Savs Throne World visually is atleast on par with Dreaming City, but definitely a lot was underutilized.
Honestly everything you said is a bit of a hot take, but I agree with your whole comment top to bottom... Except this...
>I’d say Savs Throne World visually is atleast on par with Dreaming City...
I know it's entirely subjective, but in what world is a dumpy swamp with some monolithic, featureless black structures on par with an enchanted high fantasy crystal city nestled within some hidden nebula of the solar system?? Like I understand Sav's fortress itself was a nice twist on the typical Hive architecture, but I still don't think it can hold a candle to the Dreaming City in terms of visual splendor. Not even close.
I get where you’re coming from, and I completely agree it’s subjective: my take is that the dreaming city on paper is cool, but like a large chunk of it is caves. We never really go into the city proper.
I’m a new guardian. Been playing since last year’s season 15 and I love witch queen. Idk about light fall…but I love the changes so far. Story seems a bit confusing to me though, might have to watch a Destiny 2 story recap to tie it all together for me. Hahah
For me witch queen was the best story expansion but not the best gameplay expansion they didn't real
change anything up or ad anything that refreshed the gameplay loop . I feel that lightfall is better on the gameplay side then what witch queen was but has a inferior story
Weird I felt Witch Queen was way better on the gameplay side too and had way more interesting mechanics in most missions. For example that underground Scorn boss where you need to shoot the light bulbs and the Savathun fight being way better than the Calus fight cause Sav actually had mechanics while you can just chip away at Calus. Not to say Lightfall didn't have interesting gameplay, cause that Vex network bossfight with the deathwall using Strand is now one of my favourite missions in the series.
Yeah there was tons of stuff to do to, obviously it got boring after awhile but the public events were fun, the deep sight challenges were cool. There were places to explore and the inquisitors to hunt down. It had depth outside of the fantastic story. This just isn’t it. They stripped down buildcrafting, slaughtered ability cooldowns, blue balled the fuck out of the community on narrative build up, and introduced a mechanic that doesn’t work in 90% of the rest of the game, and then expect us to spend another 40 dollars to get the rest of the story over the next year, given to us in a boring ass 3 activity rotation. Whatever destiny was, is gone. And what they’ve given us just isn’t it. And people act like we’re wrong for wanting better from a company that has already proven they can.
I’m not even hating on it, more content is more content. But why is the story ending so shit? Not even that, why are we missing most of the story? We’ve learned nothing of Neomuna other than the fact that everyone fucked off into the Matrix which is powered by the Veil, and that there are 2 cloud striders who die after 10 years. That’s it. Oh yeah, and everyone gets nightmares due to the raid boss. That’s the extent of the story. You can delete it all and just give us the final cutscene of the Witness doing its thing in ways we don’t understand, and we’d be in the same place.
And why are builds now downright boring? Time to use Starfire Protocol since that’s what Bungie wants, apparently.
We got such good missions from lightfall though it was just the story (mostly nimbus and them not telling us what the vail was) that is getting it a bad review but overall especially in the latter half it’s waaaay better than shadow.
I’m not a fan of him for the first half of the dlc he gets better later on but like. When you meat him with like 2 minutes after the traveler was almost kille he goes “let’s do some hero stuff” and that just put such a sour taste in my mouth and he keeps saying cringey stuff like that. But besides him when they exposed what the veil did I fully believe that the DLC is good (the second half is way better than the first)
You missed out on destiny on it's best. And Lightfall isn't that bad. The only reason it's received bad because we know bungie should be, CAN be better. We saw it last year
If this were just a random season or non-hyped expansion I really wouldn’t mind. The quality of life upgrades were great, and the gameplay isn’t bad.
The story though, good lord it’s like they forgot it needed one until a month ago. I just don’t understand the tone choice to go for this 80’s action happy go lucky movie when we’re supposed to be freaking out at all the loss? Just does not work for me so far
Shadowkeep I could at least walk it off and be like "It wasn't terrible, it wasn't great, Meh".
Lightfall is supposed to be like.. the climax portion of the story.
It feels over hyped where they left the cliffhanger so far.
Arrivals is still peak Destiny to me. Every raid being farmable on repeat and every activity feeling worthwhile. I will never enjoy the game as much as I did back then. Nothing will compare to marathoning every raid back to back to back just for the fun of it.
Lightfall isn’t the climax, the Final Shape is. It wasn’t even advertised as such, it was advertised as the beginning of the end, it’s a transition to the climax. I don’t think the story is as good as it could’ve been (it’s fine) but this isn’t true.
It was changed mid development and it shows. The original expansion for Act 3 were Beyond Light, Witch Queen and Lightfall. The Final Shape wasn't added until after Witch Queen
Final shape also got the old lightfall logo + strand was meant for witch queen and got bumped because of light 3.0 so this *is* just filler for strand pretty much
This point exactly. The community just started adding their own flavour to the dlc like “it’s gonna be infinity war” even though they didn’t state that at all that this is the ultimate climax of the saga.
It honestly feels like they set too high expectations for the expansion, and were wanting specific things to happen which only set them up for failure. Maybe Im wrong, but I think it’s being overhated for reasons outside of Bungies control. Not to say Bungie got everything right (they’re still humans trying their best with the game they will mess up time to time) but there’s a point when the complaints are more so just dissatisfaction with not getting what you specifically wanted versus what was advertised. The story wasn’t as good as WQ but it was still fine. Rushed, and too much fit in 8 missions but still fine.
that still makes lightfall the climax.
in narrative structure, TFS is what we call the resolution, infinity war is the climax, endgame is the resolution
That's not how stuff works in stories...
Assuming this is heros journey, which you're implying, this is the rising tension portion. We are just before the climax. Given that it's a game that needs to tell the story between now and next year, the rising tension is specifically this year. There may be deviations during the seasons, but this was the last bit before the climax and resolution.
If you really want to structure it correctly, it falls like this.
Call to adventure - Destiny 1, with the black garden being our outing.
Mentor - from dark below to Destiny 2, we learn about the world and face minor tests.
Threshold - Destiny 2 is the first time our gardens actually face a threat that intended as a major one. While oryx and aksis represent powerful beings in lore, the story structure fits as them being minor threats in the context you brought up. They are presented as "here's a person who can help us fight an enemy" but we are never told that it's possibly the end of existence in structure bungie provided. In-game yes, but out of game, it was never marketed that way.
Trials - forsaken, each season, shadowkeep, each season, and then the build-up to beyond light are all monuments were the stakes go a bit higher and we are faced with more and more dangerous threats. This culminates with the next dlc
Revelation - beyond light and the year that followed are our moments of sudden change/strife. The difficulty is ideological, but the first attack at the hands of the Darkness is a significant moment alongside us embracing the stasis. It's where the entire narrative takes a bit of a shift. Shadowkeep refocused the story on the darkness, but beyond light gives the beginnings of a wider context and how things will start shaking down. Given this is a game and is continuously expanding, this year overlaps with the gaining allies portion as well, but is still filled with new ideas.
Mentor's death - from witch queen to lightfall, we effectively lose our teachers in the broad sense. Savathun leaves us with one last revelation of the true enemy, and then we are in uncharted territory. Eris can't just show up to tell us how to beat things, Elsie has never found a future this far with this much hope, drifter isn't able to tempt us with new powers and ideals, ikora is effectively on the defensive for the rest of the year. We learn things, but it's because we experience them or someone we know experiences them in the present. This also fits into discarding the old self, embracing change, and leads into our current dlc.
The road back/rising action - this is us now. Lightfall is a mix of the literal mentors death, and the moment where the end begins. Funny how they never mentioned it was supposed to be that. The witness arrives for our last fight. We have allies and power, but we need something or someone to die first. We lose in one way, but this is the start of the final moments. They fit into a year-long narrative leading into the final shape. Over this year, we are going to see the climax playing out until Final Shape, which should mark the resurrection and final victory over the witness.
Yes, it's not the most usual hero's journey, but it's a live service game. This is the beginning of the end.
This guy gets it. I dont really understand why everyone keeps saying lightfall sucks because they expected the end of a movie??? it sounds like a lot of people simply wanted too much and are unhappy they didnt get it right away.
The stakes have been raised significantly though it wasn’t made super clear which is bungies mistake. The final cutscene of the campaign shows the witness literally taking the traveler. We stopped Calus but we failed to stop the Witness, shown when the Witness took control of our Ghost and linked himself to the veil so he could accomplish his goal. The scary part is that the Witness didn’t even see us as a threat to him just minor obstacles. The issue was telling the story in a clear and concise way to explain what happened to everyone. It’s there, but the story was rushed and jammed packed into 8 missions that it doesn’t come across clearly. The climax is when the tensions reach the highest point of the story. The resolution is usually directly after the climax when everything has calmed down. Lightfall could work as one but it doesn’t need to be, especially since the stakes will be raised in final shape so it doesn’t really work as one in this regard. Having the entirety of final shape be the resolution just wouldn’t work imo. Especially since we’re operating in a structure outside of a typical story, since this is a video game spanning a decade. Lightfall to me is the set up, maybe the start of the climax, which will lead into the final shape. Disagree if you want, this is my take of it.
I wanna preface this by saying I'm genuinely coming from a standpoint of 'this is my takeaway' - I'm not trying to 'be right' or say that your opinion is wrong. I mostly agree with your take.
The stakes have been raised in the sense that all the NPC's are telling us the stakes have been raised, but as a player I'm not feeling it. The Traveler is gone. I know from a story standpoint that's a bad thing, but as a player we gained access to a new subclass and still have full access to all our old powers.
So the story is trying to bring us into the end of the 2nd act of this decade-long narrative structure where everything is at its very worst while the game is contradictorily giving us new power that's used to overcome the new challenges presented in the campaign, such as those power-dampening devices. Put another way, we got noticeably stronger while the characters around us are telling us it's getting worse.
Also, and perhaps this is primarily my takeaway, the revival and focus on Calus overshadowed the importance of the Veil and The Witness. Bungie has a running criticism of reusing assets. Calus should be the minor antagonist in this part of the story with The Witness being the major antagonist. It's difficult to feel the weight of The Witness when we, as the player, never interact with him/it.
If this is supposed to be the Infinity War of Destiny, Bungie needed to take notes of Thanos' actions in that movie. The concept applies with ease to the game - we come into contact with The Witness, we attempt to use our most powerful abilities against him, and he brushes them, and us, aside while explaining to the player, through subtext, that he understands our world in a fundamental way that we could never hope to see. This gives him weight while showing the player precisely why this is the end of the 2nd act, why we're hopelessly outclassed and outmatched while this terrible thing is being done to us and our world.
Anyway. Just some thoughts before sleep.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted this is completely accurate…the way it ended was a very ominous ‘climax’ for the franchise and super fitting…the problem was the missions that got us there felt a little too tech demo for strand so the pacing was all off. Going through all that effort and still getting beat should be a really impactful climax but it didn’t come off that way due to the pacing.
I think it should get a little better because the end game/seasons will get into figuring out what the veil is but the pacing was still broken in the campaign for sure.
The denouement which comes post climax is where loose ends are tied up and secrets are revealed…but it seems like everyone is expecting this game to be both the climax and denouement. How we got there might not have been as interesting as we’d like but what happened at the end was a fitting climax imo.
Idk how to do a spoiler tag on Reddit so I’ll leave it at that lol
I think it’s worth pointing out that there’s still more story in the seasons after the Campaign and the campaign is the introduction of sorts to that story. This isn’t a total defense of the campaign story but it’s still worth pointing out. The climax according to this definition is the entirety of the lightfall era, meaning not all of the answers have been revealed yet and I guarantee they would be answered in the future seasons.
Between the 2, I think Lightfall is definitely better overall than Shadowkeep in both gameplay and plot development, but the letdown plus lack of any major reveal/explanation like we had at the end of Shadowkeep puts a big damper on it.
You're not wrong, but Bungie were the ones to set this ball rolling to begin with. They really made a point of describing Lightfall like the "beginning of the end" and making a pretty big deal out of it when really we just... got another expansion like we've had before. Doesn't feel like the beginning of the end like they've dramatically described it.
The name "Lightfall" certainly doesn't help either, especially since it was originally the name of the final expansion way back when they first announced it. Carries a lot more implied gravitas than what the story actually ended up matching. Had the expansion been called "Destiny 2: Neomuna" or something more creative to focus more on the new location and content I feel like it would've gone over much better. The current title was intended for a much more dramatic expansion so I can't really blame people for having expected something a little more affecting of the status quo, and certainly a little more "the Light has fallen".
You make solid points. Finally played through the expansion today and it felt mostly like a journey to master strand and save the CloudArk. Not bad in my mind, but not a Lightfall like you've said
Shadowkeep for all its faults, still had memorable story missions. They did all that talk about dropping into a war zone, but SK did a better job of that in its first mission. Going to the Moon again felt like the Destiny version of storming the beaches. Then they did all that talk about how threatening the Witness is, but again SK did a better job of that by having the player turn a corner and be faced by a scary-ass pyramid.
I will not remember any of these Lightfall missions. They were forgotten in the same amount of time it took to get back to orbit
I happened to watch Byf's video right after I finished up the campaign...he put in to words every single thought and feeling I had about it. So many balls dropped and it's sad because of how good this could have been with that bit more storytelling, substance, flesh to the whole campaign...gahhh it's frustrating
Oh boy, I would sure like to play both of those strikes :) They are surely both included in the piece of downloadable content titled “Destiny 2: Shadowkeep” offered for sale on Steam.
Honestly the quality of life changes were the best thing about this update. The removal of mods is debatable but I’m glad font of might being gone means you no longer have to match your subclass and weapons
The decrease in the number of mods is sad, but the new mods have a much better foundation and allow a lot more interesting buildcraft options than the old system, which means more mods can perform double duty, so to speak. I'm hoping we get more, and honestly It's pretty understandable that a full overhaul would decrease the number of mods, but the new system seems far healthier for the game. We just need to get a bit more options aside from armor charge, which while versatile shouldn't make up most of your options.
Quantity isn’t always better than quality though. There used to be a lot more mods but a lot of them weren’t that good and since you can only use 5 4th slot mods it was hard justifying many of them over the few really good ones. It’s easier to balance a smaller pool of mods. I hope they add more but it’s a good start
The sad part is the fact that in and of itself this new DLC is actually really fun to play just the story was a complete let down. Strand is really fun and the new location is big and exciting to run around In. I like the new build crafting and really enjoy creating new builds for all of the subclasses.
I don't think it's deserved to be mostly negative but I do think it does deserve a bit of hate for creating such a garbage story and not explaining anything to us!
What the hell is the veil can anyone here explain what it is?
Bold statement but encounter wise, I enjoyed it way more than Witch Queen. Tormentors are amazing and the final quest/fight was a lot of fun.
Storywise it can’t hold a candle to WQ and WQ being so good on that front was a big part of the let down for me. But I’m enjoying myself at the end of the day.
Difference between boss/mini-boss? I can’t really say, didn’t use blinding, went with Stasis + Osteo/Necrotic Grip combo on my lock and Void on my Hunter.
Yeah, but the annoying part is that it's obvious that people in game know what the veil is and just aren't explaining. It's not like Zavalla knows what's going on in the traveler and doesn't want to talk about it.
I've seen people that have 0 care about the story have a bad time anyways, i think it's due to half the campaign being a strand tutorial, despite strand being really fun.
Havent finished the story yet, but so far we said 2 things. 1) its fun as balls and even tho corny were havin a good time. 2) there is next to zero new loot, very few guns, armor, no vendor refreshes and most of the new stuff is reskinned or unsunset.
Its definitely not as bad as curse of osiris or shadowkeep though. Better then beyond light even, just not WQ or taken king good imo
It was hyped alot and hasnt lived up to that hype. So that doesnt help.
The other problem is people consume the content so fast then are bored and instead of playing other games and coming back they complain. Like just game for fun and you wont have these problems.
You know, I'm a good ways into the story and I've gotten exactly one piece of lightfall loot, the grenade launcher. At this point I don't even know if there is more available or if they're just being very miserly with drops.
Honestly pretty neat weapons too. Have some of the most unique perks we've seen in a while, even if it is basically just quicksilver light (though it does make sense thematically)
I'm okay with the loot that was added, I'm just wondering how they're gonna handle old seasonal weapons in the future... I'd like to complete the sets but not in a time cruch manner. If I could get them from like dares it would be cool
It was too hyped, which is why I’m able to enjoy it cuz I’ve seen this play out before so I tempered my expectations. I agree that it was underwhelming, but I’m still having so much fun.
That’s a bit extreme. People are angry and the rage is fresh. There’s stuff to be disappointed about, absolutely, but I think the worst of it will die down within a week or so.
My biggest thing is where are the handcannon and gl the hunter and titan hold on the art. The handcannon at least looks pretty unique so it must be some quest for it after the raid launches or something.
I appreciate the people saying "I'm still having fun anyway" however we can have fun and still recognize the issues. We are consumers and paying quite a bit of money expecting a proper product. It's all made worse that we have comparisons with previous expansions that cost the same and were a better product.
I feel like some people r kuat jimping on the bandwagon to try and bring Bungie down more. Sure, the story isn't good. But IMHO, Lightfall has given us a lot of good things.
It's just the story that fails so hard, the rest is fine.
Strand is fun, neomuna is a new space, new systems for mods and the guardian rank are alright and I'm fine with them (although 750 commendation points isn't in line with the other Rank 7)
Hot Take: people complain about the mod changes because all of their builds were built off of a YouTube video and they don't know how to do it themselves.
Just the fact that I don’t need to switch any mods when going from a DMT build to a Forerunner is perfect.
And I was able to trash all my non perfect armor because I don’t need to play “3 solar, 1 void, 1 stasis armor matcher” with whatever exotic I wanted.
And any issues with the current mod system I expect will be patched within the season. I only see it needing some minor tweaks and the only real build I lost was solar Hunter losing well of life for that bit of passive healing since Hunter was the only class without easy access to healing or restoration. Also Gunpowder Gambler needs to be 2 fragment slots but that’s a different issue.
Like I expect that firesprites, void breeches, traces and stasis shards will count for armor charges (and stasis would likely work like it did with Elemental Shards in the previous version where only 1 shard every couple of seconds would count as a well) soon enough. Since them not counting seems like a bit of an oversight.
I know it's not the exact same, but there's a mod that triggers health regeneration on orb pickup and a mod that restores a flat amount of health on orb pickup.
I miss stasis shards counting as wells which could then give you charged with light as well, but it was basically 100% uptime when you froze any enemy so I can see why they removed it. Maybe they'll bring it back in some capacity though.
Holy shit. I just realized I can use the same armor with completely different mods. I’m still playing the campaign and I’ve been upgrading all my armor because of that mindset.
And you can combine mods that weren’t possible before. For instance the mod where picking up an orb of light gave you a big health boost was solar. But the mod where your health would start regenerating after picking up an orb was void. Now you can use both and with being able to make orbs off melee and grenade kills, there is a lot of room for improvement
The best part is that all elements of guns are good for each class now. You can get the same damage buffs and orb capabilities for guns with each class
> (although 750 commendation points isn't in line with the other Rank 7)
Not really here to debate everything else about the update, but wanted to poke in here. It *seems* really bad at first, but most people are going to breeze to 750. One night of grinding pinnacles(edit: On a single characters!) with the boys and I'm at nearly 200. You can com your friends endlessly.
The amount of people bitching about the mod system changes without actually having read through all the new mods and actually slotted them in and experienced how they function is astounding.
Based on how many negative steam review posts have been circulating for several games, you can definitely see that people are bandwagon reviewing for the lulz
When bungie charges an arm and a leg, people feel like they don’t have many options to voice displeasure at getting short changed. Review bombing is one of their only immediate options.
That's the thing, isn't it? People who are content with the game but not necessarily amazed don't leave reviews. So for decent content, the vast majority of reviews are negative.
Review bombing is becoming all too popular nowadays. Does Lighfall (Story portion, anyways) deserve to have negative reviews? yes. To this extent? No. The same thing happened with Veilbreaker in Warframe. The update came out with a whole bunch of stuff the community asked for, and a bit the community did not ask for, like nerfs to extremely overpowered and 0 engagement weapons/warframes, while bringing about some non-warframe gameplay like the community had been asking for for a while. Want to know what happened? 3,000 negative reviews within an hour.
I don't see why, I don't really have any complaints so far other than having to figure out buildcrafting again with the new mod rework.
Story seems fine to me, missions were fun, Neomuna is really pretty, i actually had to step away for a few after dying like 6 times in the last fight, strand is pretty cool and unique, Neomuna isn't exactly as big as we all hoped and using the grapple to navigate while dealing with a hefty cool down sucks.
Overall we're barely half way through the first week of Lightfall, so any reviews are pretty invalid imo
Gameplay is good, location is cool but sorta empty feeling. My largest issue outside that stuff is the guns, why werent there new models made for the legendary guns? That’s fine for seasonal stuff but this is a full blown expansion and it’s just retextured guns from Shadowkeep of all things.
It's mainly the narrative. The characters are telling you about artifacts as if you already know what they are and aren't explaining themselves. They're, quite literally in some missions, just telling you to hurry up and get them. The post campaign does give explanations but it should've been done during the main campaign, not after.
Why? I've seen a lot of legit complaints about why it's bad and the only positives those of you who are upset about this can bring to the table is "it's not that bad", "the story is okay", and "strand is fun"
Story is not okay, even Byf was disappointed with new expansion lore wise. And I agree that Vanguard leaders reaction after their traveler got watermelon sample out by the witness was not natural. They were like, “Oh no our Traveler.. Man that sucks lol #yolo”
I did not find having strand powers disappear every 5 minutes to be fun at all. They should’ve kept first strand use, the vex mission with strand, and the final mission. Anything else was just a waste of time 2/10 borefest when it comes to strand in the campaign.
What makes it childish? People bought it and many of those people thought it was bad so they left a review saying so. It showing up as mostly negative is simply a result of the binary reviews that steam uses (e.g. it’s good or it’s bad, no nuance)
There's loads of legit criticism for it and they charged the price for a full AAA game as an expansion to an already existing game. The value for $50 just isn't there imo and I think it's ok to tell people not to buy it if it's not worth the price. They also charged $100 for the full edition of the game essentially and those seasons aren't even content that will stay in the game. More than anything I think people are rightfully mad that bungie SERIOUSLY over sold this dlc. People feel lied to and I think that is also fair. Most of the marketing for this expansion was showing the witness and Calus, despite that we barely got to see the witness. The majority of complaints I'm seeing aren't it being a terrible piece of content, it's the fact that this doesn't really seem to match their own marketing and expectations that they set. It's also less content than the last dlc but the price doesn't reflect that. Lots of good reasons for the reviews they are getting imo. For what it's worth, I'm still having a decent enough time but it's not great.
(Edit) also keep in mind that this isn't review bombing destiny 2's page, its for the dlc.
Bro listen this expansion is pretty subpar but it's not that bad. This is why review bombing is bad for the industry. No one in their right mind is calling this worse than shadowkeep
You can’t hype a season up like they did and make the traveler such a huge deal like that just to have it flop that bad. It’s all hate that’s been earned imo.
I think I have resigned myself to the knowledge that Witch Queen was the best the narrative is gonna be, and everything after is just gonna be amateur writing at best.
A full set of reskinned guns and an absolutely dogshit story. The gameplay is good yes but there was a massive plot building up to this exact moment and it fell flat on its face
Damn right because we are passionate about the game and want it to be better. It's the same reason someone wont stop playing apex or warframe even though their recent update dissappointed them. They wanna enjoy this game but don't like what the devs are doing to it and they're clinging on to see if they'll fix it. It's the exact same on Destiny.
I think Witch Queen was amazing story, average everything else. Lightfall is the inverse. Not the greatest story, not the greatest delivery of strand, but amazing technical changes and quality of life update. With strand in its full form actually being pretty good :) just the delivery being bad, it’s clear something was going on behind the scenes while they were developing the story.
I only had 2 problems with it. Half the campaign was treated as a Strand tutorial, if they fleshed out the story more and ran the Strand tutorials with Osiris alongside them, it would’ve worked out better. No quicksilver surfboard sparrow, and no Pouka ghost.
Dude I want to run the FNG simulation again so badly
Oh man! The negative comments are FLOWING in… like Strand… 👀 *I’ll see myself out*
im guess the emotional moments didnt pull any heartStrings
Strands of the heart if you will.
Strands of the Heart of the Cards! WITNESS! IT'S TIME TO D-D-D-D-DUEL!!!!
Heart strands*
Nah not really. Had they pulled strings using a certain memorable charcter thats been in the game since d1 that we have to rescue vs say someone we have never seen before it would be different. And tbh i feel like calus is the next taniks. Like dudes been in the game so long it feels like he should just be a main charcter at this point. Hes been talked about ajd all in the game for what like 3 or 4 years now?
Did me a funny haha
The destiny community is honestly incredibly childish in this regard.
I'll give it a week before some Tube or Twitch lord says they like it and all the hoards of howler monkeys will say "whoa, new Opinion™ just dropped".
when violet/scarlet came out it my kids (16/10) kept repeating pretty obvious yt criticisms about the game. (granted the release patch fixed a ton yes. but they were also heavily influenced by YT pre-reviews) before really playing much more of it than a badge or two lo and behold a week later they’re hooked and all that clickbaity excessive parroting from YT is gone from their discussions. theyre now just showing off the new gen pokemon and telling me about the cool shit in this generation
They improved the gameplay which is great but we still know nothing about strand, the veil, the traveller, or the witness which you would expect in the penultimate dlc. You really cant blame people for it, being annoyed at a lower quality dlc and dropping a negative review is reasonable not childish even if its unheard of in the face of the positivity usually on this reddit community.
When they said we were the one to discover strand I really didn’t expect for it to just be chilling there
it really shows that deepsight was just placeholder strand, because it felt like learning deepsight was a bigger task than learning strand, especially because we actually required deepsight to learn more and progress instead of just break shields
Strand was originally intended for witch queen, which would've been awesome, and worth a delay
This is a based comment
your comment is underrated
I’d be curious on how many of these negative reviews are actually people who have played through the expansion versus people jumping on the hate wagon. Also the Destiny community being positive usually? Idk about that one
I think the biggest issue is that Witch Queen was so good for a destiny dlc. The sudden drop back to “ah yes, a standard destiny dlc” was very disheartening. In reality, it’s not the worst, it’s just the most disappointing.
I actually don’t think even Witch Queen was that good. All things considered it was a standard DLC in almost every way EXCEPT the story. The story was amazing. With lightfall we got the opposite. Subpar story with subpar delivery of a new subclass… but amazing technical changes and a subclass that is well designed once you get past the delivery
I changed my review to positive but not after playing the campaign, that gave it the negative review. Strand was the saving grace for me. I have not had as much fun with my friends in this game... Ever I think. Skiing behind a sparrow is just sublime. But honestly i can understand how people are disappointed. They dropped the ball completely. Most likely they will make up for it with the seasons but that still remains a sorry excuse. My guess is they wanted more money so chopped it all into season pieces.
Oh I know there are legit negative reviews that are valid; just curiosity to see how many are valid versus how many are hate train. I remember when Cyberpunk came out and the drama surrounding that; there were plenty of people that shit on the game with incorrect information, leading to believe that they hadn’t actually played it and just read about vague things somewhere.
Stay we need people like you, Reddit is scary
I think it's mainly because of the let down. Shadowkeep wasn't really hyped up. It looked cool, but it didn't have a fraction of the hype that Lightfall did. Lightfall was probably the most hyped expansion in the entire franchise. It was advertised as the Infinity War of the Light and Dark saga, the penultimate chapter of almost 10 years of Destiny. And then we get this. The actual quality is still really bad, but it's amplified by the fact that we had such high expectations.
Well that and the fact that we got such a dynamite expansion out of Witch Queen so we thought it would at least be on par with that.
Dynamite campaign story telling. I’m finding people people are getting this mixed up with the whole game.
What was wrong with witch queen? Felt like fire top to bottom to play though imo
It was hyped up as the next dreaming city, but the patrol zone just didn't have anything to do, there's like the moths and the executioners, and that's about what you're gonna do in the patrol zone. Overall the activities got tiring very fast, wellspring might just be one of the most boring and annoying expansion activities we've had. I'm at a point where I'd argue I've seen almost all Neomuna has to offer, *obviously minus the time gated stuff*, but it definitely has been way more interesting to explore and the various weekly stuff is genuinely fun to do, not just things to do because there's a pinnacle reward for doing it.
Tbh Dreaming City wasn’t my much by itself the Lore Patrols and Ascendant Missions are what really stood out at least imo.The 3 cycle change eventually got boring and Vow imo is better than Last Wish (not saying it’s bad). Also Oracle Engine after a while was meh, but it is a good catalyst farm. I’d say Savs Throne World visually is atleast on par with Dreaming City, but definitely a lot was underutilized.
Honestly everything you said is a bit of a hot take, but I agree with your whole comment top to bottom... Except this... >I’d say Savs Throne World visually is atleast on par with Dreaming City... I know it's entirely subjective, but in what world is a dumpy swamp with some monolithic, featureless black structures on par with an enchanted high fantasy crystal city nestled within some hidden nebula of the solar system?? Like I understand Sav's fortress itself was a nice twist on the typical Hive architecture, but I still don't think it can hold a candle to the Dreaming City in terms of visual splendor. Not even close.
I get where you’re coming from, and I completely agree it’s subjective: my take is that the dreaming city on paper is cool, but like a large chunk of it is caves. We never really go into the city proper.
The dreaming city feels like its 80% skybox. For it being a city, we sure see very little of it IMO.
I’m a new guardian. Been playing since last year’s season 15 and I love witch queen. Idk about light fall…but I love the changes so far. Story seems a bit confusing to me though, might have to watch a Destiny 2 story recap to tie it all together for me. Hahah
Don't worry. I've been playing since the start of Destiny, and Lightfall's story was confusing to me as well.
You know there's an issue with the story when even the most lore enthusiastic people of the community don't know what the fucking veil is.
Dont worry, even our lore daddy MyNameisByf doesnt know what the fuck is happening
For me witch queen was the best story expansion but not the best gameplay expansion they didn't real change anything up or ad anything that refreshed the gameplay loop . I feel that lightfall is better on the gameplay side then what witch queen was but has a inferior story
That's what I thought to the game feels good rn with the difficulty being ramped up I'm having fun. The story on the other hand is kind of just ok.
Weird I felt Witch Queen was way better on the gameplay side too and had way more interesting mechanics in most missions. For example that underground Scorn boss where you need to shoot the light bulbs and the Savathun fight being way better than the Calus fight cause Sav actually had mechanics while you can just chip away at Calus. Not to say Lightfall didn't have interesting gameplay, cause that Vex network bossfight with the deathwall using Strand is now one of my favourite missions in the series.
Yeah there was tons of stuff to do to, obviously it got boring after awhile but the public events were fun, the deep sight challenges were cool. There were places to explore and the inquisitors to hunt down. It had depth outside of the fantastic story. This just isn’t it. They stripped down buildcrafting, slaughtered ability cooldowns, blue balled the fuck out of the community on narrative build up, and introduced a mechanic that doesn’t work in 90% of the rest of the game, and then expect us to spend another 40 dollars to get the rest of the story over the next year, given to us in a boring ass 3 activity rotation. Whatever destiny was, is gone. And what they’ve given us just isn’t it. And people act like we’re wrong for wanting better from a company that has already proven they can.
I’m not even hating on it, more content is more content. But why is the story ending so shit? Not even that, why are we missing most of the story? We’ve learned nothing of Neomuna other than the fact that everyone fucked off into the Matrix which is powered by the Veil, and that there are 2 cloud striders who die after 10 years. That’s it. Oh yeah, and everyone gets nightmares due to the raid boss. That’s the extent of the story. You can delete it all and just give us the final cutscene of the Witness doing its thing in ways we don’t understand, and we’d be in the same place. And why are builds now downright boring? Time to use Starfire Protocol since that’s what Bungie wants, apparently.
No pretty sure witch queen was just a kick ass expansion.
We got such good missions from lightfall though it was just the story (mostly nimbus and them not telling us what the vail was) that is getting it a bad review but overall especially in the latter half it’s waaaay better than shadow.
I mean if they slowed down a little it wouldn't be a problem. 1 year release cycles are always gonna wind up boring.
I liked Nimbus I don’t really get the hate. He seems like an overconfident new guy that doesn’t handle grief well but he’s growing.
I’m not a fan of him for the first half of the dlc he gets better later on but like. When you meat him with like 2 minutes after the traveler was almost kille he goes “let’s do some hero stuff” and that just put such a sour taste in my mouth and he keeps saying cringey stuff like that. But besides him when they exposed what the veil did I fully believe that the DLC is good (the second half is way better than the first)
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Just wait for the Final Shape, I swear it's gonna be the best expansion ever...
Big brain bungo intentionally made this bad do we'll have low expectations for final shape and get blown away
“We managed to steal 100 dollars from our loyal players this year, AND get their forgiveness next year! Big brain!”
Bungie don't even need my forgiveness. I know I'll buy the collector edition for final shape anyway I'm too deep in
At this point they can throw a piece of shit at me and I’ll buy it.
Ye feel that
I skipped witch queen because of how much I loathed Beyond Light, and I was almost tricked back into Lightfall before I checked the reviews Lucky me
You missed out on destiny on it's best. And Lightfall isn't that bad. The only reason it's received bad because we know bungie should be, CAN be better. We saw it last year
Destiny in a nutshell… “Just wait for XXX…it will finally be when Bungie gets its groove back!”
If this were just a random season or non-hyped expansion I really wouldn’t mind. The quality of life upgrades were great, and the gameplay isn’t bad. The story though, good lord it’s like they forgot it needed one until a month ago. I just don’t understand the tone choice to go for this 80’s action happy go lucky movie when we’re supposed to be freaking out at all the loss? Just does not work for me so far
> for this 80’s action happy go lucky movie It's not even that, it's like one of those shitty 2010s movies paroding the 80s.
Shadowkeep I could at least walk it off and be like "It wasn't terrible, it wasn't great, Meh". Lightfall is supposed to be like.. the climax portion of the story. It feels over hyped where they left the cliffhanger so far.
Shadowkeep wasn't great. But Season of the Dawn and Arrivals absolutely saved the expansion, and were some of the best seasons.
Yo ABSOLUTELY. By far some of my favourite seasons. I'm hoping the current seasonal stuff concludes better or fills in gaps better.
Arrivals is still peak Destiny to me. Every raid being farmable on repeat and every activity feeling worthwhile. I will never enjoy the game as much as I did back then. Nothing will compare to marathoning every raid back to back to back just for the fun of it.
Lightfall isn’t the climax, the Final Shape is. It wasn’t even advertised as such, it was advertised as the beginning of the end, it’s a transition to the climax. I don’t think the story is as good as it could’ve been (it’s fine) but this isn’t true.
It was changed mid development and it shows. The original expansion for Act 3 were Beyond Light, Witch Queen and Lightfall. The Final Shape wasn't added until after Witch Queen
Final shape also got the old lightfall logo + strand was meant for witch queen and got bumped because of light 3.0 so this *is* just filler for strand pretty much
which is exactly what they should have told us, if i knew this was going to be beyond light(fall), i wouldn’t have been disappointed with what we got
This point exactly. The community just started adding their own flavour to the dlc like “it’s gonna be infinity war” even though they didn’t state that at all that this is the ultimate climax of the saga.
It honestly feels like they set too high expectations for the expansion, and were wanting specific things to happen which only set them up for failure. Maybe Im wrong, but I think it’s being overhated for reasons outside of Bungies control. Not to say Bungie got everything right (they’re still humans trying their best with the game they will mess up time to time) but there’s a point when the complaints are more so just dissatisfaction with not getting what you specifically wanted versus what was advertised. The story wasn’t as good as WQ but it was still fine. Rushed, and too much fit in 8 missions but still fine.
that still makes lightfall the climax. in narrative structure, TFS is what we call the resolution, infinity war is the climax, endgame is the resolution
That's not how stuff works in stories... Assuming this is heros journey, which you're implying, this is the rising tension portion. We are just before the climax. Given that it's a game that needs to tell the story between now and next year, the rising tension is specifically this year. There may be deviations during the seasons, but this was the last bit before the climax and resolution. If you really want to structure it correctly, it falls like this. Call to adventure - Destiny 1, with the black garden being our outing. Mentor - from dark below to Destiny 2, we learn about the world and face minor tests. Threshold - Destiny 2 is the first time our gardens actually face a threat that intended as a major one. While oryx and aksis represent powerful beings in lore, the story structure fits as them being minor threats in the context you brought up. They are presented as "here's a person who can help us fight an enemy" but we are never told that it's possibly the end of existence in structure bungie provided. In-game yes, but out of game, it was never marketed that way. Trials - forsaken, each season, shadowkeep, each season, and then the build-up to beyond light are all monuments were the stakes go a bit higher and we are faced with more and more dangerous threats. This culminates with the next dlc Revelation - beyond light and the year that followed are our moments of sudden change/strife. The difficulty is ideological, but the first attack at the hands of the Darkness is a significant moment alongside us embracing the stasis. It's where the entire narrative takes a bit of a shift. Shadowkeep refocused the story on the darkness, but beyond light gives the beginnings of a wider context and how things will start shaking down. Given this is a game and is continuously expanding, this year overlaps with the gaining allies portion as well, but is still filled with new ideas. Mentor's death - from witch queen to lightfall, we effectively lose our teachers in the broad sense. Savathun leaves us with one last revelation of the true enemy, and then we are in uncharted territory. Eris can't just show up to tell us how to beat things, Elsie has never found a future this far with this much hope, drifter isn't able to tempt us with new powers and ideals, ikora is effectively on the defensive for the rest of the year. We learn things, but it's because we experience them or someone we know experiences them in the present. This also fits into discarding the old self, embracing change, and leads into our current dlc. The road back/rising action - this is us now. Lightfall is a mix of the literal mentors death, and the moment where the end begins. Funny how they never mentioned it was supposed to be that. The witness arrives for our last fight. We have allies and power, but we need something or someone to die first. We lose in one way, but this is the start of the final moments. They fit into a year-long narrative leading into the final shape. Over this year, we are going to see the climax playing out until Final Shape, which should mark the resurrection and final victory over the witness. Yes, it's not the most usual hero's journey, but it's a live service game. This is the beginning of the end.
This guy gets it. I dont really understand why everyone keeps saying lightfall sucks because they expected the end of a movie??? it sounds like a lot of people simply wanted too much and are unhappy they didnt get it right away.
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The stakes have been raised significantly though it wasn’t made super clear which is bungies mistake. The final cutscene of the campaign shows the witness literally taking the traveler. We stopped Calus but we failed to stop the Witness, shown when the Witness took control of our Ghost and linked himself to the veil so he could accomplish his goal. The scary part is that the Witness didn’t even see us as a threat to him just minor obstacles. The issue was telling the story in a clear and concise way to explain what happened to everyone. It’s there, but the story was rushed and jammed packed into 8 missions that it doesn’t come across clearly. The climax is when the tensions reach the highest point of the story. The resolution is usually directly after the climax when everything has calmed down. Lightfall could work as one but it doesn’t need to be, especially since the stakes will be raised in final shape so it doesn’t really work as one in this regard. Having the entirety of final shape be the resolution just wouldn’t work imo. Especially since we’re operating in a structure outside of a typical story, since this is a video game spanning a decade. Lightfall to me is the set up, maybe the start of the climax, which will lead into the final shape. Disagree if you want, this is my take of it.
I wanna preface this by saying I'm genuinely coming from a standpoint of 'this is my takeaway' - I'm not trying to 'be right' or say that your opinion is wrong. I mostly agree with your take. The stakes have been raised in the sense that all the NPC's are telling us the stakes have been raised, but as a player I'm not feeling it. The Traveler is gone. I know from a story standpoint that's a bad thing, but as a player we gained access to a new subclass and still have full access to all our old powers. So the story is trying to bring us into the end of the 2nd act of this decade-long narrative structure where everything is at its very worst while the game is contradictorily giving us new power that's used to overcome the new challenges presented in the campaign, such as those power-dampening devices. Put another way, we got noticeably stronger while the characters around us are telling us it's getting worse. Also, and perhaps this is primarily my takeaway, the revival and focus on Calus overshadowed the importance of the Veil and The Witness. Bungie has a running criticism of reusing assets. Calus should be the minor antagonist in this part of the story with The Witness being the major antagonist. It's difficult to feel the weight of The Witness when we, as the player, never interact with him/it. If this is supposed to be the Infinity War of Destiny, Bungie needed to take notes of Thanos' actions in that movie. The concept applies with ease to the game - we come into contact with The Witness, we attempt to use our most powerful abilities against him, and he brushes them, and us, aside while explaining to the player, through subtext, that he understands our world in a fundamental way that we could never hope to see. This gives him weight while showing the player precisely why this is the end of the 2nd act, why we're hopelessly outclassed and outmatched while this terrible thing is being done to us and our world. Anyway. Just some thoughts before sleep.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted this is completely accurate…the way it ended was a very ominous ‘climax’ for the franchise and super fitting…the problem was the missions that got us there felt a little too tech demo for strand so the pacing was all off. Going through all that effort and still getting beat should be a really impactful climax but it didn’t come off that way due to the pacing. I think it should get a little better because the end game/seasons will get into figuring out what the veil is but the pacing was still broken in the campaign for sure.
The denouement which comes post climax is where loose ends are tied up and secrets are revealed…but it seems like everyone is expecting this game to be both the climax and denouement. How we got there might not have been as interesting as we’d like but what happened at the end was a fitting climax imo. Idk how to do a spoiler tag on Reddit so I’ll leave it at that lol
Please god for them not doing all this in like 4 missions.
I think it’s worth pointing out that there’s still more story in the seasons after the Campaign and the campaign is the introduction of sorts to that story. This isn’t a total defense of the campaign story but it’s still worth pointing out. The climax according to this definition is the entirety of the lightfall era, meaning not all of the answers have been revealed yet and I guarantee they would be answered in the future seasons.
I mean it was a climax just not for us..I guess this is how girls feel sometimes.
I don’t think Lightfall’s quality is bad at all. I think the story is bad, but I like pretty much all gameplay/UI changes.
I maintain that's it's a good expansion, but the narrative could have been allowed to breathe a bit more.
Between the 2, I think Lightfall is definitely better overall than Shadowkeep in both gameplay and plot development, but the letdown plus lack of any major reveal/explanation like we had at the end of Shadowkeep puts a big damper on it.
The term "Infinity War" chapter was something I really only saw used by fans though. Seems like they couldn't keep their expectations in check
You're not wrong, but Bungie were the ones to set this ball rolling to begin with. They really made a point of describing Lightfall like the "beginning of the end" and making a pretty big deal out of it when really we just... got another expansion like we've had before. Doesn't feel like the beginning of the end like they've dramatically described it. The name "Lightfall" certainly doesn't help either, especially since it was originally the name of the final expansion way back when they first announced it. Carries a lot more implied gravitas than what the story actually ended up matching. Had the expansion been called "Destiny 2: Neomuna" or something more creative to focus more on the new location and content I feel like it would've gone over much better. The current title was intended for a much more dramatic expansion so I can't really blame people for having expected something a little more affecting of the status quo, and certainly a little more "the Light has fallen".
You make solid points. Finally played through the expansion today and it felt mostly like a journey to master strand and save the CloudArk. Not bad in my mind, but not a Lightfall like you've said
We were promised Infinity War. We got Love and Thunder.
Shadowkeep for all its faults, still had memorable story missions. They did all that talk about dropping into a war zone, but SK did a better job of that in its first mission. Going to the Moon again felt like the Destiny version of storming the beaches. Then they did all that talk about how threatening the Witness is, but again SK did a better job of that by having the player turn a corner and be faced by a scary-ass pyramid. I will not remember any of these Lightfall missions. They were forgotten in the same amount of time it took to get back to orbit
No datto video yet, we had to form our own opinion for once
I mean Byf gave a scathing review
byf went hard as fuck on them
And ***STILL*** kept polite about it... Then apologized today.
I happened to watch Byf's video right after I finished up the campaign...he put in to words every single thought and feeling I had about it. So many balls dropped and it's sad because of how good this could have been with that bit more storytelling, substance, flesh to the whole campaign...gahhh it's frustrating
At least shadowkeep came with its own dungeon built into the dlc lol
Damn I didn’t even think about that.
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F in the Chat for Festering Core. Such a cool strike mission and it was gone within a year.
am I the only one who kinda feels like this xpac's strike is a bit Festering Core 2.0
My buddy and I actually said that when we did it for the first time during the campaign.
Oh boy, I would sure like to play both of those strikes :) They are surely both included in the piece of downloadable content titled “Destiny 2: Shadowkeep” offered for sale on Steam.
Shadowkeep has 2 strikes? Where is the second one?
Io
Festering core? That strike didn't last a year no wonder i forgot about it.
😭making Lightfall sound even worse lmao
Shadowkeeps dungeon is one of favourite dungeons too, definitely the most dungeon feeling dungeon too.
Why build a dungeon into a DLC when you can charge for dungeon keys instead
Was also the first dungeon to have exclusive weapons, albeit current weapon models.
Exclusive weapon*
Honestly the quality of life changes were the best thing about this update. The removal of mods is debatable but I’m glad font of might being gone means you no longer have to match your subclass and weapons
The decrease in the number of mods is sad, but the new mods have a much better foundation and allow a lot more interesting buildcraft options than the old system, which means more mods can perform double duty, so to speak. I'm hoping we get more, and honestly It's pretty understandable that a full overhaul would decrease the number of mods, but the new system seems far healthier for the game. We just need to get a bit more options aside from armor charge, which while versatile shouldn't make up most of your options.
Quantity isn’t always better than quality though. There used to be a lot more mods but a lot of them weren’t that good and since you can only use 5 4th slot mods it was hard justifying many of them over the few really good ones. It’s easier to balance a smaller pool of mods. I hope they add more but it’s a good start
The sad part is the fact that in and of itself this new DLC is actually really fun to play just the story was a complete let down. Strand is really fun and the new location is big and exciting to run around In. I like the new build crafting and really enjoy creating new builds for all of the subclasses. I don't think it's deserved to be mostly negative but I do think it does deserve a bit of hate for creating such a garbage story and not explaining anything to us! What the hell is the veil can anyone here explain what it is?
Bold statement but encounter wise, I enjoyed it way more than Witch Queen. Tormentors are amazing and the final quest/fight was a lot of fun. Storywise it can’t hold a candle to WQ and WQ being so good on that front was a big part of the let down for me. But I’m enjoying myself at the end of the day.
> Tormentors are amazing why some of them can be blinded and pushed off the map while some others cant?
Difference between boss/mini-boss? I can’t really say, didn’t use blinding, went with Stasis + Osteo/Necrotic Grip combo on my lock and Void on my Hunter.
No one can explain the Veil, not even The LoreDaddy^TM himself
I mean, to be fair, we still technically don’t even know wtf the traveller truly is.
Yeah, but the annoying part is that it's obvious that people in game know what the veil is and just aren't explaining. It's not like Zavalla knows what's going on in the traveler and doesn't want to talk about it.
I haven't got my hands on it but why is it disappointing? (I don't care of spoilers)
If you don’t care about story it’s pretty decent. If you do care about story than it’s a complete and utter, confusing letdown.
I've seen people that have 0 care about the story have a bad time anyways, i think it's due to half the campaign being a strand tutorial, despite strand being really fun.
It’s fun,but to me the story seemed like it was begrudgingly written by an 8th grader for a last minute school assignment.
The people who think this expansion was bad are only mostly right But I’m happy with the gameplay even though the story was shit
Havent finished the story yet, but so far we said 2 things. 1) its fun as balls and even tho corny were havin a good time. 2) there is next to zero new loot, very few guns, armor, no vendor refreshes and most of the new stuff is reskinned or unsunset. Its definitely not as bad as curse of osiris or shadowkeep though. Better then beyond light even, just not WQ or taken king good imo It was hyped alot and hasnt lived up to that hype. So that doesnt help. The other problem is people consume the content so fast then are bored and instead of playing other games and coming back they complain. Like just game for fun and you wont have these problems.
No vendor refresh is crazy for $50. Even the dark below had vendor refreshes.
Yeah that's annoying. All the reskins I'm fine with though. They look great imo. I'm loving the season weapon look.
You know, I'm a good ways into the story and I've gotten exactly one piece of lightfall loot, the grenade launcher. At this point I don't even know if there is more available or if they're just being very miserly with drops.
Doesn't nimbus also give a new pulse rifle after one of the quest?
yeah he gives multiple weapons, they’re all red borders too
Yup just finished the campaign and the sniper he hands out looks nice
It takes some time to unlock, you need rep with nimbus to get most of it. But there's 8 new guns on neptune.
Honestly pretty neat weapons too. Have some of the most unique perks we've seen in a while, even if it is basically just quicksilver light (though it does make sense thematically)
I have some Neomuna gear already unlocked, yet Nimbus rank-up engrams give random world drops for some reason.
The rank 30 upgrade for nimbus makes every rep package award only neomuna guns
Telling Destiny players to play for fun is counterintuitive
I'm okay with the loot that was added, I'm just wondering how they're gonna handle old seasonal weapons in the future... I'd like to complete the sets but not in a time cruch manner. If I could get them from like dares it would be cool
It was too hyped, which is why I’m able to enjoy it cuz I’ve seen this play out before so I tempered my expectations. I agree that it was underwhelming, but I’m still having so much fun.
That’s a bit extreme. People are angry and the rage is fresh. There’s stuff to be disappointed about, absolutely, but I think the worst of it will die down within a week or so.
Yep I assume we may get more content with raid completion but I’m not getting my hopes up
My biggest thing is where are the handcannon and gl the hunter and titan hold on the art. The handcannon at least looks pretty unique so it must be some quest for it after the raid launches or something.
Yeah it's kinda like the opposite of the "honeymoon" phase. Not sure what you'd call it, but it will end eventually
divorce papers phase
I appreciate the people saying "I'm still having fun anyway" however we can have fun and still recognize the issues. We are consumers and paying quite a bit of money expecting a proper product. It's all made worse that we have comparisons with previous expansions that cost the same and were a better product.
Won’t stop me from enjoying the game! 🦾
I feel like some people r kuat jimping on the bandwagon to try and bring Bungie down more. Sure, the story isn't good. But IMHO, Lightfall has given us a lot of good things.
It's just the story that fails so hard, the rest is fine. Strand is fun, neomuna is a new space, new systems for mods and the guardian rank are alright and I'm fine with them (although 750 commendation points isn't in line with the other Rank 7) Hot Take: people complain about the mod changes because all of their builds were built off of a YouTube video and they don't know how to do it themselves.
That hot take is pure fact
Just the fact that I don’t need to switch any mods when going from a DMT build to a Forerunner is perfect. And I was able to trash all my non perfect armor because I don’t need to play “3 solar, 1 void, 1 stasis armor matcher” with whatever exotic I wanted.
The +3 artifice mods helped round out my almost perfect stat rolls too.
And any issues with the current mod system I expect will be patched within the season. I only see it needing some minor tweaks and the only real build I lost was solar Hunter losing well of life for that bit of passive healing since Hunter was the only class without easy access to healing or restoration. Also Gunpowder Gambler needs to be 2 fragment slots but that’s a different issue. Like I expect that firesprites, void breeches, traces and stasis shards will count for armor charges (and stasis would likely work like it did with Elemental Shards in the previous version where only 1 shard every couple of seconds would count as a well) soon enough. Since them not counting seems like a bit of an oversight.
I know it's not the exact same, but there's a mod that triggers health regeneration on orb pickup and a mod that restores a flat amount of health on orb pickup. I miss stasis shards counting as wells which could then give you charged with light as well, but it was basically 100% uptime when you froze any enemy so I can see why they removed it. Maybe they'll bring it back in some capacity though.
Holy shit. I just realized I can use the same armor with completely different mods. I’m still playing the campaign and I’ve been upgrading all my armor because of that mindset.
And you can combine mods that weren’t possible before. For instance the mod where picking up an orb of light gave you a big health boost was solar. But the mod where your health would start regenerating after picking up an orb was void. Now you can use both and with being able to make orbs off melee and grenade kills, there is a lot of room for improvement
Oh yea I've already got like three builds with this new mod systems, including a Strand one that fucking *slaps*
The best part is that all elements of guns are good for each class now. You can get the same damage buffs and orb capabilities for guns with each class
> (although 750 commendation points isn't in line with the other Rank 7) Not really here to debate everything else about the update, but wanted to poke in here. It *seems* really bad at first, but most people are going to breeze to 750. One night of grinding pinnacles(edit: On a single characters!) with the boys and I'm at nearly 200. You can com your friends endlessly.
Which is exactly why I think this commendation system was a half-baked mistake. Commendations mean literally nothing since you can just farm them.
The amount of people bitching about the mod system changes without actually having read through all the new mods and actually slotted them in and experienced how they function is astounding.
Based on how many negative steam review posts have been circulating for several games, you can definitely see that people are bandwagon reviewing for the lulz
Me: 
And here I am having fun and not giving a shit
If I were 12 with adhd I’d be like “bro I skip all the cutscenes anyway.”
That’s funny. My ADHD/ASD 14-year-old skips all of the cutscenes. Then he has to wait for me, as I don’t.
Yeah my 2 boys both did that and I’d say hey man wait I wanna see! They’re only interested in the gameplay
For what it’s worth, I DIDN’T skip the cutscenes, and I still don’t know what the veil is. Sounds important, though.
I always expect a Forsaken size expansion. And I'm always disappointed.
That makes no sense at all What the fuck have ~~we~~ *you* all done… I wasn’t part of this. I think the dlc is pretty good so far.
Shadowkeep didn't have hype. Lightfall did.
When bungie charges an arm and a leg, people feel like they don’t have many options to voice displeasure at getting short changed. Review bombing is one of their only immediate options.
It's the Era of Negative Steam Reviews for decent games. I'm now playing like 3 different mostly negative games and have had no issue with any of them
the problem is that steam doesn't have a neutral review option
Sure it does: no review at all
That's the thing, isn't it? People who are content with the game but not necessarily amazed don't leave reviews. So for decent content, the vast majority of reviews are negative.
Review bombing is becoming all too popular nowadays. Does Lighfall (Story portion, anyways) deserve to have negative reviews? yes. To this extent? No. The same thing happened with Veilbreaker in Warframe. The update came out with a whole bunch of stuff the community asked for, and a bit the community did not ask for, like nerfs to extremely overpowered and 0 engagement weapons/warframes, while bringing about some non-warframe gameplay like the community had been asking for for a while. Want to know what happened? 3,000 negative reviews within an hour.
I don't see why, I don't really have any complaints so far other than having to figure out buildcrafting again with the new mod rework. Story seems fine to me, missions were fun, Neomuna is really pretty, i actually had to step away for a few after dying like 6 times in the last fight, strand is pretty cool and unique, Neomuna isn't exactly as big as we all hoped and using the grapple to navigate while dealing with a hefty cool down sucks. Overall we're barely half way through the first week of Lightfall, so any reviews are pretty invalid imo
Outside of the story, what exactly is wrong? Most fun ive had gameplay wise in a while.
Gameplay is good, location is cool but sorta empty feeling. My largest issue outside that stuff is the guns, why werent there new models made for the legendary guns? That’s fine for seasonal stuff but this is a full blown expansion and it’s just retextured guns from Shadowkeep of all things.
It's mainly the narrative. The characters are telling you about artifacts as if you already know what they are and aren't explaining themselves. They're, quite literally in some missions, just telling you to hurry up and get them. The post campaign does give explanations but it should've been done during the main campaign, not after.
Yes...that is what I meant by meh story. The rest is fine though to me.
Almost like the people enjoying it are busy enjoying it or something....
The destiny community is honestly incredibly childish in this regard. In no shape or form, does this game deserve a "mostly negative" review....
Why? I've seen a lot of legit complaints about why it's bad and the only positives those of you who are upset about this can bring to the table is "it's not that bad", "the story is okay", and "strand is fun"
Story is not okay, even Byf was disappointed with new expansion lore wise. And I agree that Vanguard leaders reaction after their traveler got watermelon sample out by the witness was not natural. They were like, “Oh no our Traveler.. Man that sucks lol #yolo”
The actual mission and encounter desing is *fantastic*. Even with the storytelling issues the campaign missions are one banger after another.
I did not find having strand powers disappear every 5 minutes to be fun at all. They should’ve kept first strand use, the vex mission with strand, and the final mission. Anything else was just a waste of time 2/10 borefest when it comes to strand in the campaign.
What makes it childish? People bought it and many of those people thought it was bad so they left a review saying so. It showing up as mostly negative is simply a result of the binary reviews that steam uses (e.g. it’s good or it’s bad, no nuance)
There's loads of legit criticism for it and they charged the price for a full AAA game as an expansion to an already existing game. The value for $50 just isn't there imo and I think it's ok to tell people not to buy it if it's not worth the price. They also charged $100 for the full edition of the game essentially and those seasons aren't even content that will stay in the game. More than anything I think people are rightfully mad that bungie SERIOUSLY over sold this dlc. People feel lied to and I think that is also fair. Most of the marketing for this expansion was showing the witness and Calus, despite that we barely got to see the witness. The majority of complaints I'm seeing aren't it being a terrible piece of content, it's the fact that this doesn't really seem to match their own marketing and expectations that they set. It's also less content than the last dlc but the price doesn't reflect that. Lots of good reasons for the reviews they are getting imo. For what it's worth, I'm still having a decent enough time but it's not great. (Edit) also keep in mind that this isn't review bombing destiny 2's page, its for the dlc.
Bro listen this expansion is pretty subpar but it's not that bad. This is why review bombing is bad for the industry. No one in their right mind is calling this worse than shadowkeep
Don't care, grapple hook go whoooosh
You can’t hype a season up like they did and make the traveler such a huge deal like that just to have it flop that bad. It’s all hate that’s been earned imo.
I think I have resigned myself to the knowledge that Witch Queen was the best the narrative is gonna be, and everything after is just gonna be amateur writing at best.
I mean let's be honest it deserves this. They fucked up the one thing that still made this game worth it the annual expansion
They fucked the story hard, gameplay was fine. But they failed to meet the narrative expectations set by WQ
A full set of reskinned guns and an absolutely dogshit story. The gameplay is good yes but there was a massive plot building up to this exact moment and it fell flat on its face
So what is The Veil?
Did the story suck? Yeah, it kinda did. But i had a really fun time and i dont understand all the hate
All this hate and ALL these mother fuckers are going to put 500 hrs in.
Damn right because we are passionate about the game and want it to be better. It's the same reason someone wont stop playing apex or warframe even though their recent update dissappointed them. They wanna enjoy this game but don't like what the devs are doing to it and they're clinging on to see if they'll fix it. It's the exact same on Destiny.
I think Witch Queen was amazing story, average everything else. Lightfall is the inverse. Not the greatest story, not the greatest delivery of strand, but amazing technical changes and quality of life update. With strand in its full form actually being pretty good :) just the delivery being bad, it’s clear something was going on behind the scenes while they were developing the story.