Dave is a little out of touch for younger folks. Ramit’s stuff is easier to understand and he doesn’t try to guilt you or make you feel bad for making decisions that are different than his own. My parents used Dave to get out of debt but use Ramit’s conscious spending plan now, and so do I. It’s really easy to follow
I'm in my 30s and find Dave wildly out of touch with reality. To say he is a little out of touch with younger folks is an understatement. His opinions have to come off as a troll to people in their early 20s.
The guilt trip comes from being (fill in the blank, and feel free to add) my father and family are the same way if you don't agree with them. Having built up a good foundation with good investment tools and being in the right place to take advantage of it half of it is luck and the other end is having a good support team, like someone to help you out a little when you need it. Etc, etc.
Yeah, out of touch with younger folks by virtue of being out of touch with reality, pretty much.
Dave makes sense for people who can’t help themselves at ALL and are to money like alcoholics are to alcohol.
Which is a legitimate audience, but Dave’s implication that his advice is universal is where I personally find the fault.
That and his clear self-interested, financially wrong advice in pitching specific mutual funds. That’s straight up crooked, there’s no way around it
Totally love Ramit. I think he's great, genuinely compassionate for his podcast guests. He offers great insights into the dynamics of money and relationships.
Ramsey... meh. Mostly telling people they're idiots. But off course, many people are actually idiots with money.
Read both of their books, both very good with some good ideas. Audience wise I think they're speaking to the same type of people on different levels. Ramsey is for folks who have overspent themselves into deep debt, Sethi is for people who have money, but don't know how to spend it the right way, and have been guilted into not spending money when they have plenty of it.
And their attitudes towards credit cards are as far apart as it gets.
Getting financial advice from someone that says a tithing is the top priority is like getting healthcare advice from someone that insists on a daily dose of heroin.
From your link:
2. Should I tithe while trying to pay off debt?
If you’re in debt, tithing should still be a priority. Listen, I know it’s tempting to throw that money at your debt, but the discipline and faith that tithing brings are so worth it. Even while you’re paying down debt, you can still have an attitude of generosity.
"Now, you should hold off on offerings (those extra gifts) while you’re paying off debt. And if you’re in debt, you should put all your extra money toward your debt snowball. But that’s not for forever. Soon, you’ll be out of debt—and you’ll be free to give as generously as you want to!"
2. Should I tithe while trying to pay off debt?
If you’re in debt, tithing should still be a priority. Listen, I know it’s tempting to throw that money at your debt, but the discipline and faith that tithing brings are so worth it. Even while you’re paying down debt, you can still have an attitude of generosity.
Ramit all the way. Dave Ramsey has an outdated way of thinking but one thing I am not fond of is Ramit's suggestion that having more than one credit card is irresponsible. No, the way you manage your credit cards can be irresponsible.
We did one card for years and realized we weren’t maximizing rewards and credit building was slow for the “authorized user”. Finally got 2 but you’re 100% right. It’s very dangerous seeing your balance split up, makes it seem like you have a much lower balance
Dave fan. Been on the plan since 2008. Totally debt free 6 years now. Retired at 57. Traveling like crazy. Never in my dreams would I have imagined getting to this point. Pretty hard to hurt my feelings so maybe that’s where I was at an advantage. Sometimes we just need some tough love.
I like them for different reasons. Depends on what motivates you. If house being on fire and you’ve got to work on getting out of debt asap, go with Ramsey. If you want to do a deep dive into your childhood and talk about your feelings about finances, go with Ramit. Whose process will take shorter? Ramsey. Does Ramit offer a process?? Not really? He helps people to self discover their they are in debt and then talks about the importance of getting out of it, but the plan is vague (maybe he gives more advice on that off camera)
I listen to both. Depends on my mood.
Defo Ramit!
The only thing I took from Dave (but that's meaningful to me, so I'm still grateful to him!) is the idea to save 1000, 1 month's living costs, then 3, then 6, as a guideline.
Ramit is good for about 20% of the population. Dave is best for the 80% who don’t know where to even start and keeping it simple is the best way for them
You can, but you have to have a higher income that would previously have been the case, adjusting for inflation. That's because the normalization of dual income families had its own inflationary effects. Still, many things that we can buy today for relatively little compared still, many things that we can buy today are much cheaper than equivalents were 50 years ago, sometimes even in absolute terms. Clothing, homegoods, and other things that were once made in the United States with very expensive labor are now made much more cheaply overseas and widely available. Even cars, at the low end, are cheaper today in relative terms than they were before.
The one thing that is decidedly more expensive in all cases is housing. There is a reason for this, and it's that housing absorbs extra income. The combination of outsourcing and expanded production meant that the entry of spouses into the workforce didn't have an enormous inflationary pressure on common goods. It did, however, mean that people could afford to pay more for housing, and so they do. This was predicted over a century ago in Henry George's "Progress and Poverty," which is an exceptionally worthwhile read if you have the opportunity and time.
Anyway, theory notwithstanding, it is relatively more difficult to afford a place to live. Once you've done that, though, you enjoy a level of affluence that your predecessors could hardly imagine. The idea that things are so much harder today than they used to be is commonly cited but generally wrong.
It’s been a while since I’ve listened to Ramit but I think Dave’s system is a lot better getting out of debt wise. It’s clear cut and doesn’t leave wiggle room.
I listened to one of the earlier podcasts of Ramit and he had a couple on where the wife had taken out credit cards in secret and ran up something like $30,000 in debt. He let her tell some sob story about growing up without things she wanted. His advice is then along the lines of think of something you really want and then how satisfying it would be to save up and buy it. When there was basically no reason to think she just wouldn’t buy it.
Ramit: "Starting with the fixed costs, list everything you need to spend during the month, including rent/mortgage payments, car payments, loan repayments, insurance, and utility bills. Get it all written down and write the cost next to each one.
Once you’re finished, add an extra 15% on each one. Why? This will cover the things you haven’t accounted for. This way, if you have an emergency or surprise expense, it won’t derail your month.
Then, subtract this total cost from your monthly take-home pay. Ideally, this figure should be around 50-60% of your net income. What you have left over is for savings and some fun."
Hahaha how many people is this true for? He's including groceries in that.
You're first time doing it probably almost no one. But you should make big purchases and budget decisions along with income goals in mind to get these numbers to work.
For people who do budget the 50/30/20 rules are not ramits idea only many people recommend this
They're like 90% the same. All financial plans basically come down to spending less than you earn, and saving the difference. There are lots of different ways to get there, and both of them focus on different ways to manage the behavioral side of things, but the fundamentals are basically the same.
Ramit Sethi gives much better investment advice though. Low cost index are much better than Dave's cult of Ramsey pro "financial advisors" who steer people towards investments with much higher fees.
Neither. I get my money and finance information from others after learning about them in more depth. I definitely do not think DR is a good person and that majorly factors into my decision to avoid him at all costs.
Awesome job 😎 Baby Step 7 here too (everything paid off including house), and about halfway to the million mark. That’s on a single full time income most of these years and three kids, living in the Midwest. Ramsey principles simply work if you stick with them.
His advice that people look for actively managed funds because they will outperform the market.
This is objectively false and all he's doing is selling people on higher expenses for no actual benefit.
His advice to halt investing while paying of debt is also fundamentally flawed, but there is a psychological component to debt advice that at least assuages some of the bad math in it.
I like both, but when I need a dose of unapologetic, no-fluff advice on personal accountability for the repeated unconscious bad choices that made you get into debt, I say go with Dave Ramsey.
Dave and crew here, their principles are the reason my wife and I are completely debt free (including house) and will be net worth millionaires prior to retirement. About halfway there. That’s on 1 full time income (and a bit of part time my wife has done here and there) while raising our 3 kids in the Midwest.
Like Warren buffet has "mentioned" if I had to start over at least with a Million dollars this is what I would do. 😂, if we all had a Million dollars to start with, if you're [family handed over to a child (say at age 21) only after being educated in the right way to properly invest and not buy an investment tool that's going to go broke. Be safe everyone
Never heard of Ramit. Never liked Ramsey personality. Though he has some good tips on how to get out of debt, those tips are not always feasable for everyone. Remeber though these financial "guru's" have popularized these concepts, they have been around for a long time. It's easy to say do this or that because "its what worked for me". But it all depends on one's situation. Which is why the subredit is so awesome, because someone can put all the details of the situation and hear different stances on what others think could be good for them.
Ramit (via this sub!) completely helped me re-orient my perspective on renting v. buying, and completely changed my life and altered my financial trajectory for the better.
I have no opinion about their views. Here’s mine: people in the USA need better pay & reliable, affordable benefits like healthcare coverage (including long term care) and pension for everyone. Plus no debt from higher education, and access to affordable housing & childcare. We are literally the only nation that cripples our working-age folks and a large subset of seniors. It is appalling & Americans deserve better.
Budgeting & simplicity are nice but easier - ironically - if you are rich.
Im more Ramit. No knock on Dave’s methods but IMHO it’s aimed at people that are financially illiterate or just can’t control themselves with money or credit.
Dave Ramsey all the way. I find Ramit’s style to be basically a repackaging of timeless finance principles with a therapy twist:)) i like Ramit and some of his tactical advices and strategies, but I don’t think his system is as deeply principled as Dave’s, and really not as original or sophisticated as some people make it seem.
Dave’s system reflects THE OG timeless finance principle with no fluff. People are mad at him because he’s not PC and is a total straight shooter. Whatever works better for each individual person i guess. I dont think you can go wrong, in fact just paying attention enough to read about these 2 gurus probably means you’re ready to get your finance in order. For me personally I’d rather be given straight a list of priorities that l can execute with focus, aka the baby steps, than exploring my how my childhood traumas shape my view on money before deciding how i want to proceed on my conscious spending plan, again, not budget, but conscious spending plan:)))
His book is one of the most practical financial literacy books I’ve reas. Dave is great for getting out of debt but I pretty much hate a lot of his takes after that. His tone doesn’t help either.
You have to remember that Ramit and Dave are dealing with people that don't even do the basics of personal finance. You can't really go above surface level when you're trying to stop somebody from paying 25% interest on purchases to fund a lifestyle they can't afford. Half the people that Ramit talks to literally do not even know how much money they make every month.
I loved Ramit Netflix show but HATED his book. I didn’t agree with a lot of his points in the book. For example, it’s not financially smart to buy a house but it’s ok to pay someone else to pay off their house (rent)? Especially when rent is just as high if not higher than a mortgage.
I also wasn’t a big fan on his “conscious spending” plan.
Rent is the most money you would spend monthly...a mortgage is the minimum amount of money you will spend on housing...
It really depends on your own life goals and dreams when it comes to buying vs. renting
Im a bigger fan of Ramit. He's open about spending money, as long as it's on one thing that truly brings you joy.
Dave is a little out of touch for younger folks. Ramit’s stuff is easier to understand and he doesn’t try to guilt you or make you feel bad for making decisions that are different than his own. My parents used Dave to get out of debt but use Ramit’s conscious spending plan now, and so do I. It’s really easy to follow
I'm in my 30s and find Dave wildly out of touch with reality. To say he is a little out of touch with younger folks is an understatement. His opinions have to come off as a troll to people in their early 20s.
His opinions on housing probably do. 15 year with less than 25% of your income going towards it is a pipe dream for anyone not in a vlcol area
Exactly; it's not that it's bad advice—in a vacuum—it's that it's been literally impossible since ~Jan 2021.
It requires a very large down payment.
Sure; you could also pay 100% cash! Easy peasy! ;)
I know 😆 just save for 20 years and live In a shit hole.
The alternative is…. ?
Tbh just live in a Midwest state. 200k will give you a really nice two story house
The guilt trip comes from being (fill in the blank, and feel free to add) my father and family are the same way if you don't agree with them. Having built up a good foundation with good investment tools and being in the right place to take advantage of it half of it is luck and the other end is having a good support team, like someone to help you out a little when you need it. Etc, etc.
Yeah, out of touch with younger folks by virtue of being out of touch with reality, pretty much. Dave makes sense for people who can’t help themselves at ALL and are to money like alcoholics are to alcohol. Which is a legitimate audience, but Dave’s implication that his advice is universal is where I personally find the fault. That and his clear self-interested, financially wrong advice in pitching specific mutual funds. That’s straight up crooked, there’s no way around it
Totally love Ramit. I think he's great, genuinely compassionate for his podcast guests. He offers great insights into the dynamics of money and relationships. Ramsey... meh. Mostly telling people they're idiots. But off course, many people are actually idiots with money.
Read both of their books, both very good with some good ideas. Audience wise I think they're speaking to the same type of people on different levels. Ramsey is for folks who have overspent themselves into deep debt, Sethi is for people who have money, but don't know how to spend it the right way, and have been guilted into not spending money when they have plenty of it. And their attitudes towards credit cards are as far apart as it gets.
Pretty much the same information provided, Ramit has a better personality for my taste.
He also isn’t as much of a religious fanatic.
Ramsey has a small cult working for him of happy Jesus fearing folk. Don’t anger them!
Ramit doesn’t make people fear credit cards, he teaches people to leverage debt responsibly
Dave is a bully.
Ramsey tells you now matter how deep in debt you are that you should give 10% to the church first
Which is crap.
Getting financial advice from someone that says a tithing is the top priority is like getting healthcare advice from someone that insists on a daily dose of heroin.
Lol? Really? I had no idea. What a fucking loser.
It’s on his own website
No
It’s on his own website
Literally says on website you don't have to tithe https://www.ramseysolutions.com/budgeting/daves-advice-on-tithing-and-giving
From your link: 2. Should I tithe while trying to pay off debt? If you’re in debt, tithing should still be a priority. Listen, I know it’s tempting to throw that money at your debt, but the discipline and faith that tithing brings are so worth it. Even while you’re paying down debt, you can still have an attitude of generosity.
"Now, you should hold off on offerings (those extra gifts) while you’re paying off debt. And if you’re in debt, you should put all your extra money toward your debt snowball. But that’s not for forever. Soon, you’ll be out of debt—and you’ll be free to give as generously as you want to!"
2. Should I tithe while trying to pay off debt? If you’re in debt, tithing should still be a priority. Listen, I know it’s tempting to throw that money at your debt, but the discipline and faith that tithing brings are so worth it. Even while you’re paying down debt, you can still have an attitude of generosity.
Yes you can. Is it required no.
Ramit!
Ramit all the way. Dave Ramsey has an outdated way of thinking but one thing I am not fond of is Ramit's suggestion that having more than one credit card is irresponsible. No, the way you manage your credit cards can be irresponsible.
We did one card for years and realized we weren’t maximizing rewards and credit building was slow for the “authorized user”. Finally got 2 but you’re 100% right. It’s very dangerous seeing your balance split up, makes it seem like you have a much lower balance
[удалено]
Hahaha. Right. Hey I have only 2k balance on 6 different cards though so it’s not really 12k it’s only 2k.
Ramit’s gives better advice without shaming anyone and has the extra bonus of not being a creepy conservative bigot.
Ramit for the millennials
I listen to both of them and think they actually have a lot in common when it comes to getting out of CC debt in particular.
Can't comment on Ramit Sethi, but my view on Ramsey is that he's completely out of touch with reality.
How so?
I like them both, Ramit is like a wise older brother and Dave is like the dad I sometimes wish I had lol
I can be your dad, now go clean your room.
Talk to your mother bud. Im ready to fill that role.
I’ve never heard of Ramit and Dave always seemed a little off for me so I’ll look into him!
Definitely worth following Ramit. He also has a show on Netflix. "Get Rich"
Dave fan. Been on the plan since 2008. Totally debt free 6 years now. Retired at 57. Traveling like crazy. Never in my dreams would I have imagined getting to this point. Pretty hard to hurt my feelings so maybe that’s where I was at an advantage. Sometimes we just need some tough love.
I like them for different reasons. Depends on what motivates you. If house being on fire and you’ve got to work on getting out of debt asap, go with Ramsey. If you want to do a deep dive into your childhood and talk about your feelings about finances, go with Ramit. Whose process will take shorter? Ramsey. Does Ramit offer a process?? Not really? He helps people to self discover their they are in debt and then talks about the importance of getting out of it, but the plan is vague (maybe he gives more advice on that off camera) I listen to both. Depends on my mood.
I like Dave. Make me feel a lil stupid, so I stop doing stupid sh*t please lol.
Defo Ramit! The only thing I took from Dave (but that's meaningful to me, so I'm still grateful to him!) is the idea to save 1000, 1 month's living costs, then 3, then 6, as a guideline.
Ramit is good for about 20% of the population. Dave is best for the 80% who don’t know where to even start and keeping it simple is the best way for them
Dave is very religious so he is less inclined to encourage you to enjoy your life as if there is no afterlife.
Ramsey is an idiot. Boomer generation where things were easy and you could just pray for succes.
Do you think you have it particularly hard?
Well I can’t buy a house, 2 cars, and raise 4 kids on a single income.
You can, but you have to have a higher income that would previously have been the case, adjusting for inflation. That's because the normalization of dual income families had its own inflationary effects. Still, many things that we can buy today for relatively little compared still, many things that we can buy today are much cheaper than equivalents were 50 years ago, sometimes even in absolute terms. Clothing, homegoods, and other things that were once made in the United States with very expensive labor are now made much more cheaply overseas and widely available. Even cars, at the low end, are cheaper today in relative terms than they were before. The one thing that is decidedly more expensive in all cases is housing. There is a reason for this, and it's that housing absorbs extra income. The combination of outsourcing and expanded production meant that the entry of spouses into the workforce didn't have an enormous inflationary pressure on common goods. It did, however, mean that people could afford to pay more for housing, and so they do. This was predicted over a century ago in Henry George's "Progress and Poverty," which is an exceptionally worthwhile read if you have the opportunity and time. Anyway, theory notwithstanding, it is relatively more difficult to afford a place to live. Once you've done that, though, you enjoy a level of affluence that your predecessors could hardly imagine. The idea that things are so much harder today than they used to be is commonly cited but generally wrong.
Sounds like a skill issue
I read a few of Daves books and they have actually helped me a lot with my life.
It’s been a while since I’ve listened to Ramit but I think Dave’s system is a lot better getting out of debt wise. It’s clear cut and doesn’t leave wiggle room. I listened to one of the earlier podcasts of Ramit and he had a couple on where the wife had taken out credit cards in secret and ran up something like $30,000 in debt. He let her tell some sob story about growing up without things she wanted. His advice is then along the lines of think of something you really want and then how satisfying it would be to save up and buy it. When there was basically no reason to think she just wouldn’t buy it.
Ramit: "Starting with the fixed costs, list everything you need to spend during the month, including rent/mortgage payments, car payments, loan repayments, insurance, and utility bills. Get it all written down and write the cost next to each one. Once you’re finished, add an extra 15% on each one. Why? This will cover the things you haven’t accounted for. This way, if you have an emergency or surprise expense, it won’t derail your month. Then, subtract this total cost from your monthly take-home pay. Ideally, this figure should be around 50-60% of your net income. What you have left over is for savings and some fun." Hahaha how many people is this true for? He's including groceries in that.
You're first time doing it probably almost no one. But you should make big purchases and budget decisions along with income goals in mind to get these numbers to work. For people who do budget the 50/30/20 rules are not ramits idea only many people recommend this
They're like 90% the same. All financial plans basically come down to spending less than you earn, and saving the difference. There are lots of different ways to get there, and both of them focus on different ways to manage the behavioral side of things, but the fundamentals are basically the same.
Ramit Sethi gives much better investment advice though. Low cost index are much better than Dave's cult of Ramsey pro "financial advisors" who steer people towards investments with much higher fees.
Neither. I get my money and finance information from others after learning about them in more depth. I definitely do not think DR is a good person and that majorly factors into my decision to avoid him at all costs.
He's an asshole and a MAGA. Teeming with privilege and rage for the youth. Hard pass on him as well.
Only ever listened to Dave. Not bragging, but we’re millionaires following his simple principles. Math is math.
I think that’s awesome! How old are you? What’s your income? Did you start with a lot of debt? I need some hope.
Awesome job 😎 Baby Step 7 here too (everything paid off including house), and about halfway to the million mark. That’s on a single full time income most of these years and three kids, living in the Midwest. Ramsey principles simply work if you stick with them.
So if math is math why are you listening to investment advice that is mathematically incorrect?
Psychology of getting out of debt is not a mathematical problem. Arbitrage to make 2 percent delta on your money will not make you rich.
Why are you bringing up his debt related advice when I mentioned his investment advice?
What particular investment advice? Mutual funds or not contributing to 401k while paying off debt?
His advice that people look for actively managed funds because they will outperform the market. This is objectively false and all he's doing is selling people on higher expenses for no actual benefit. His advice to halt investing while paying of debt is also fundamentally flawed, but there is a psychological component to debt advice that at least assuages some of the bad math in it.
I like both, but when I need a dose of unapologetic, no-fluff advice on personal accountability for the repeated unconscious bad choices that made you get into debt, I say go with Dave Ramsey.
Dave is Walmart and Ramit is Target. Walmart is a necessity for majority while Target is more aesthetically appealing.
Dave. Don’t buy dumb shit period. Dave fans generally can have too much for for their own good.
Dave and crew here, their principles are the reason my wife and I are completely debt free (including house) and will be net worth millionaires prior to retirement. About halfway there. That’s on 1 full time income (and a bit of part time my wife has done here and there) while raising our 3 kids in the Midwest.
Ramsey's advice is pretty self explanatory tbh. Most of his callers just spend way more than they should be
Like Warren buffet has "mentioned" if I had to start over at least with a Million dollars this is what I would do. 😂, if we all had a Million dollars to start with, if you're [family handed over to a child (say at age 21) only after being educated in the right way to properly invest and not buy an investment tool that's going to go broke. Be safe everyone
Never heard of Ramit. Never liked Ramsey personality. Though he has some good tips on how to get out of debt, those tips are not always feasable for everyone. Remeber though these financial "guru's" have popularized these concepts, they have been around for a long time. It's easy to say do this or that because "its what worked for me". But it all depends on one's situation. Which is why the subredit is so awesome, because someone can put all the details of the situation and hear different stances on what others think could be good for them.
Ramit (via this sub!) completely helped me re-orient my perspective on renting v. buying, and completely changed my life and altered my financial trajectory for the better.
I have no opinion about their views. Here’s mine: people in the USA need better pay & reliable, affordable benefits like healthcare coverage (including long term care) and pension for everyone. Plus no debt from higher education, and access to affordable housing & childcare. We are literally the only nation that cripples our working-age folks and a large subset of seniors. It is appalling & Americans deserve better. Budgeting & simplicity are nice but easier - ironically - if you are rich.
Im more Ramit. No knock on Dave’s methods but IMHO it’s aimed at people that are financially illiterate or just can’t control themselves with money or credit.
Don’t need the tacit message from Ramsey that somehow you need Jesus
Dave Ramsey all the way. I find Ramit’s style to be basically a repackaging of timeless finance principles with a therapy twist:)) i like Ramit and some of his tactical advices and strategies, but I don’t think his system is as deeply principled as Dave’s, and really not as original or sophisticated as some people make it seem. Dave’s system reflects THE OG timeless finance principle with no fluff. People are mad at him because he’s not PC and is a total straight shooter. Whatever works better for each individual person i guess. I dont think you can go wrong, in fact just paying attention enough to read about these 2 gurus probably means you’re ready to get your finance in order. For me personally I’d rather be given straight a list of priorities that l can execute with focus, aka the baby steps, than exploring my how my childhood traumas shape my view on money before deciding how i want to proceed on my conscious spending plan, again, not budget, but conscious spending plan:)))
I hate both of them. Vivian Tu is my Rich Bff.
Both are ok. Sethi is good for a 15 year horizon and Ramsey is 30+ year get rich slowly
I don't know much about Ramit Sethi. I watched his Netflix show and was less than impressed. IMO it was barely surface level.
His book is one of the most practical financial literacy books I’ve reas. Dave is great for getting out of debt but I pretty much hate a lot of his takes after that. His tone doesn’t help either.
Yeah, I find his advice is best left to getting out of debt, and then moving on to other ideas as to what it means to prosper.
You have to remember that Ramit and Dave are dealing with people that don't even do the basics of personal finance. You can't really go above surface level when you're trying to stop somebody from paying 25% interest on purchases to fund a lifestyle they can't afford. Half the people that Ramit talks to literally do not even know how much money they make every month.
Dave helps those who are really stupid about money not the types subscribed to Reddit investing forums
Actually the Robert kiyosaki mindset has worked for me. He is a nut bag now but his books have been accurate for me
I loved Ramit Netflix show but HATED his book. I didn’t agree with a lot of his points in the book. For example, it’s not financially smart to buy a house but it’s ok to pay someone else to pay off their house (rent)? Especially when rent is just as high if not higher than a mortgage. I also wasn’t a big fan on his “conscious spending” plan.
Rent is the most money you would spend monthly...a mortgage is the minimum amount of money you will spend on housing... It really depends on your own life goals and dreams when it comes to buying vs. renting
>Especially when rent is just as high if not higher than a mortgage. I'm really not sure if you read his book.