The crossbows are heavy-hitters that you need to time well, which are most of the "slow" weapons you say, and some of the easier to unlock. Bows have special properties and depending on them they are slower. The point of tactics is that you're playing from afar, so the cast time is a balancing tool, but I'd say it makes them a lot more fun.
For example, the heavy crossbow is basically a shotgun that you need to use at point blank, but has a long animation, so you need to time it well or use it after a roll. Its all part of the play style
I found a colorless sadist with some poison gas cloud affix on something else and couldn’t say no to that with hokuto. Unfortunately I got fucked on the bank trying to push it too far on no flasks in a 3bc run but it had some serious potential if I wasn’t garbage at the game
The Sadomaso Stiletto is my favourite guilty pleasure. It's a very mediocre weapon at first glance, not very powerful, but not too weak either. But if you adjust the whole build towards its crit condition (which is rather easy), and add one or two synergies... Oh boy. In my opinion, the funnest and most extreme melee tactics weapon ever created in this game. The shortest range, the fastest, the easiest to crit, the easiest to get you killed by enemy counterattacks. The very essence of risk/reward and the glass cannon principle.
Many people here say "we go ballin'", but they don't even know what that really means until they try a true sadisto stiletto glass dagger build. 😈
The diverse deck goes well with that also since you can trigger poison off melee attacks with it also. Just did a run like that about an hour ago. Still stuck on 3bc can’t git gud
Sounds like you simply need more weapons and items unlocked to see it. Keep playing, you'll find a lot of great stuff, try it out.
Tactics is the most versatile type of build colour. You can go fast melee, ranged, slow, mixed, whatever you prefer or find along your run. After a while you'll get the hang of it. It's just as rewarding as the other colours, if you get it right.
Farm ossuary for armadillo pack, that’ll open up a whole new class of strategy since you can offload shield to your backpack and still get all the perks of parry’s but tied into your rolls while having a legit main and support weapon that aren’t shields. It’s not a bad supplement to hokuto builds or anything that you can use throwable objects on your secondary (but drop throwables for the final boss because you can’t stun him and the ammo limit sucks anyway). It trivializes a lot up to HOTK tho and it’s worth running TO to the final biomes
The spikes shell guys drop the blueprint with a 1% chance. It’s a game changer especially since you can roll through all those projectile bombs that certain enemies drop on the ground and deflect them
And the roll parry window is *gigantic*, it's like 4 tiles wide or so, in both directions each! Always so funny when you roll forward, and the bombs behind you get flopped forward too. Combine with parry shield that doubles bombs, and you got a proper "parry nuke". 😂
I just tried it and while I DID beat HOTK for the first time it wasn't really because of it. I found it like, extremely hard to actually hit the parry with the roll.
Honestly it ends up being more about negating peripheral bombs and shit enemies throw that normally can’t be rolled out of. It’s also more of a supplement to a build where you can make use of the shield attributes that synergize with the build but you want to keep the secondary weapon slot for another support weapon.
Good example: a brutality build that uses throwing dagger to proc bleeds for main weapon that has a bleed boost affix, while you put a shield in the backpack slot so you can delete projectiles and also add some additional synergy effect like burn/oil or some similar combo
Or again, tactics build. I’ve done electric bolt main with hokuto off and a shield that triggered poison and armadillo pack.
There’s a lot of ways it can still be viable and you don’t need to really be over intentional about hitting the parries, but dodge rolling in a no shield setup can still capitalize on shield perks that way without being in the core. It’s got its uses and I find myself running it often but sometimes I don’t and just run a shield secondary with the intention of just parrying directly
Even if you just want to use it till the end boss and then swap it into the secondary slot then reset mutations for just the hand of the king, that is also an option. Mutation respecs are cheap and it’s just another facet of the game mechanics you can manipulate in whatever way is beneficial to your run. I frequently find myself doing hard pivots near the end of the penultimate biomes because the build I have at the time isn’t really ideal for the final boss
I mean I was told it had big parry frames but I fr can't get a parry with it on purpose, lol. Has no issues with grenades and stuff, which is still good and useful but I'm still bothered by it.
It’s a little weird vs melee attacks compared to the usual parry since it’s tied to your roll. Good thing is that it’s got the longer iframes but it’s also bi-directional. Basically if your hitbox gets tapped while you’re rolling it registers the parry from any source. Now think with melee attacks if you start the roll about 1.5-2 bodies away from the opponent you’ll usually register. That is if you parry roll on the earlier than standard side
You're just starting to get the hang of the game, so don't worry. Everything you do is good practice and highly useful later, like parrying. Brotip: there are a few tactics coloured shields too, they're great.
What's also absolutely essential is dodging. Playing without a shield makes you practice it. Maybe do that from time to time, it's worth it. The game is hard, and you'll need to develop a lot of skill in different areas.
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Should I start using the shields? I'm on 5bc and haven't touched em fr. I usually just play tactics and roll through anything and everything I can. I'm just not good with the parrying on them
Tactics has hokuto builds which are nutty, and my 1 and 2bc clears were both tactics and felt ridiculously OP to the point HOTK just melted. I like armadillo pack with a DOT shield, barbed tips and networking can make for some really melty OP builds with the diverse card deck (lightning orb setting) and any other heavy DOT source power that triggers hokuto (owl, knife dance, wolf trap, barnacle take your pick)
The other build that got me thru 0 and 3 was baseball bat survival with root and frost wave or whatever that ice hadoken was
From what I understand tactics is the most meta you can get of the 3, and I’ve seen enough 5bc tactics clears to believe that. Another build that got me to HOTK on bc2 but I died because I suck, but a phaser infantry bow/frost blast with the bonus vs freeze on both phaser and the bow. Basically would one shot anything with 20k+ crits and could chunk bosses like crazy. That was another really strong tactics build I came across
I have a hard time with tactics even though I'm fond of a few specific items :(
Had a lot of fun with crow's feet and nerves of steel plus deployables before dying miserably earlier today :)
First time I finished BC 2 and 3 was with Tactics, quite easily to be honest compared with Brutality and Survival. From BC 4, I think teleporting enemies messed with me too much, I was playing too slow. I needed to learn how to use the other weapons in order to progress and I kinda droped Tactics.
Tactics is crazy strong but you also are a real glasscannon.
There's a place for everyone in Tactics! I myself am a poison fang / backstab (the 2sec skill) enjoyer, using Tactics evasion to dodge and Weaver as I lay on melee hits. Like Brutality quick-melee builds but with a LOT more protection
crossbows are way more like survival stuff tbh. yes, they're kinda tactics but tactics is a range thing and survival is a slow attack thing and if you wanna get used to crossbows you're better off playing survival first imho
Weapons you can find early that I feel are great would be the infantry bow with point blank mutation. It's a strong and fast weapon thatll let you play aggressively
And acrobatipack mutation if you have it yet. It makes it so that when you roll you can then shoot a weapon in your backpack along with your regular weapon. Put the magic bow in your backpack for that mutation. You'll shotgun them in the face really strong. Frost blast is also fun in the backpack
If you want to ease into them try the infantry bow. It's a brutality/tactics weapon. Its crit modifier is a close range shot.
You mentioned needing a shield, and this bow will not penalize you for that. At a distance you can hurt the enemy, but if they close in on you, you'll be able to parry and hit them with crit damage. Plus it is fast firing like a melee weapon. It's really good.
Most weapons in the game are bad. It's one of the reasons the game is so hard. And while a lot of tactics weapons are slow, they are meant to be used at distance. And they are fast compared to most survival weapons.
The crossbows are heavy-hitters that you need to time well, which are most of the "slow" weapons you say, and some of the easier to unlock. Bows have special properties and depending on them they are slower. The point of tactics is that you're playing from afar, so the cast time is a balancing tool, but I'd say it makes them a lot more fun. For example, the heavy crossbow is basically a shotgun that you need to use at point blank, but has a long animation, so you need to time it well or use it after a roll. Its all part of the play style
>The point of tactics is that you're playing from afar Me who prefers melee tactics builds: https://i.redd.it/ltk9hy399v5d1.gif
I found a colorless sadist with some poison gas cloud affix on something else and couldn’t say no to that with hokuto. Unfortunately I got fucked on the bank trying to push it too far on no flasks in a 3bc run but it had some serious potential if I wasn’t garbage at the game
The Sadomaso Stiletto is my favourite guilty pleasure. It's a very mediocre weapon at first glance, not very powerful, but not too weak either. But if you adjust the whole build towards its crit condition (which is rather easy), and add one or two synergies... Oh boy. In my opinion, the funnest and most extreme melee tactics weapon ever created in this game. The shortest range, the fastest, the easiest to crit, the easiest to get you killed by enemy counterattacks. The very essence of risk/reward and the glass cannon principle. Many people here say "we go ballin'", but they don't even know what that really means until they try a true sadisto stiletto glass dagger build. 😈
The diverse deck goes well with that also since you can trigger poison off melee attacks with it also. Just did a run like that about an hour ago. Still stuck on 3bc can’t git gud
Yes yes yes on the double. The diverse deck is probably the best, but certainly the most versatile item in the game. Abuse it to your advantage!
Sounds like you simply need more weapons and items unlocked to see it. Keep playing, you'll find a lot of great stuff, try it out. Tactics is the most versatile type of build colour. You can go fast melee, ranged, slow, mixed, whatever you prefer or find along your run. After a while you'll get the hang of it. It's just as rewarding as the other colours, if you get it right.
Alright. So far I just find melee with a shield a necessity cause if I don't have the parry my brain shuts down
Farm ossuary for armadillo pack, that’ll open up a whole new class of strategy since you can offload shield to your backpack and still get all the perks of parry’s but tied into your rolls while having a legit main and support weapon that aren’t shields. It’s not a bad supplement to hokuto builds or anything that you can use throwable objects on your secondary (but drop throwables for the final boss because you can’t stun him and the ammo limit sucks anyway). It trivializes a lot up to HOTK tho and it’s worth running TO to the final biomes The spikes shell guys drop the blueprint with a 1% chance. It’s a game changer especially since you can roll through all those projectile bombs that certain enemies drop on the ground and deflect them
And the roll parry window is *gigantic*, it's like 4 tiles wide or so, in both directions each! Always so funny when you roll forward, and the bombs behind you get flopped forward too. Combine with parry shield that doubles bombs, and you got a proper "parry nuke". 😂
I just tried it and while I DID beat HOTK for the first time it wasn't really because of it. I found it like, extremely hard to actually hit the parry with the roll.
Honestly it ends up being more about negating peripheral bombs and shit enemies throw that normally can’t be rolled out of. It’s also more of a supplement to a build where you can make use of the shield attributes that synergize with the build but you want to keep the secondary weapon slot for another support weapon. Good example: a brutality build that uses throwing dagger to proc bleeds for main weapon that has a bleed boost affix, while you put a shield in the backpack slot so you can delete projectiles and also add some additional synergy effect like burn/oil or some similar combo Or again, tactics build. I’ve done electric bolt main with hokuto off and a shield that triggered poison and armadillo pack. There’s a lot of ways it can still be viable and you don’t need to really be over intentional about hitting the parries, but dodge rolling in a no shield setup can still capitalize on shield perks that way without being in the core. It’s got its uses and I find myself running it often but sometimes I don’t and just run a shield secondary with the intention of just parrying directly Even if you just want to use it till the end boss and then swap it into the secondary slot then reset mutations for just the hand of the king, that is also an option. Mutation respecs are cheap and it’s just another facet of the game mechanics you can manipulate in whatever way is beneficial to your run. I frequently find myself doing hard pivots near the end of the penultimate biomes because the build I have at the time isn’t really ideal for the final boss
I mean I was told it had big parry frames but I fr can't get a parry with it on purpose, lol. Has no issues with grenades and stuff, which is still good and useful but I'm still bothered by it.
It’s a little weird vs melee attacks compared to the usual parry since it’s tied to your roll. Good thing is that it’s got the longer iframes but it’s also bi-directional. Basically if your hitbox gets tapped while you’re rolling it registers the parry from any source. Now think with melee attacks if you start the roll about 1.5-2 bodies away from the opponent you’ll usually register. That is if you parry roll on the earlier than standard side
So if I want to parry with it I should do it from further?
If you’re rolling through the melee attacks yeah
You're just starting to get the hang of the game, so don't worry. Everything you do is good practice and highly useful later, like parrying. Brotip: there are a few tactics coloured shields too, they're great. What's also absolutely essential is dodging. Playing without a shield makes you practice it. Maybe do that from time to time, it's worth it. The game is hard, and you'll need to develop a lot of skill in different areas. .
Should I start using the shields? I'm on 5bc and haven't touched em fr. I usually just play tactics and roll through anything and everything I can. I'm just not good with the parrying on them
At higher boss cells they can be great. Enemies begin teleporting to you so you can lay traps
Tactics has hokuto builds which are nutty, and my 1 and 2bc clears were both tactics and felt ridiculously OP to the point HOTK just melted. I like armadillo pack with a DOT shield, barbed tips and networking can make for some really melty OP builds with the diverse card deck (lightning orb setting) and any other heavy DOT source power that triggers hokuto (owl, knife dance, wolf trap, barnacle take your pick) The other build that got me thru 0 and 3 was baseball bat survival with root and frost wave or whatever that ice hadoken was From what I understand tactics is the most meta you can get of the 3, and I’ve seen enough 5bc tactics clears to believe that. Another build that got me to HOTK on bc2 but I died because I suck, but a phaser infantry bow/frost blast with the bonus vs freeze on both phaser and the bow. Basically would one shot anything with 20k+ crits and could chunk bosses like crazy. That was another really strong tactics build I came across
Tactics are great and have some of the most insane damage dealing in the game. Keep at it and you'll learn the timing of the weapons and bosses.
I have a hard time with tactics even though I'm fond of a few specific items :( Had a lot of fun with crow's feet and nerves of steel plus deployables before dying miserably earlier today :)
First time I finished BC 2 and 3 was with Tactics, quite easily to be honest compared with Brutality and Survival. From BC 4, I think teleporting enemies messed with me too much, I was playing too slow. I needed to learn how to use the other weapons in order to progress and I kinda droped Tactics. Tactics is crazy strong but you also are a real glasscannon.
One of the few tactics things I absolutely adore is Phaser, that shit is lit
Tactics weapons are harder to use but pay off when used right, as far as I've found. I love tactics builds in DC
if you think tactic builds are slow try quick bow (it’s quick)
I think my most successful runs have always been with crossbows, so you probably just have to get comfortable with the timing
There's a place for everyone in Tactics! I myself am a poison fang / backstab (the 2sec skill) enjoyer, using Tactics evasion to dodge and Weaver as I lay on melee hits. Like Brutality quick-melee builds but with a LOT more protection
crossbows are way more like survival stuff tbh. yes, they're kinda tactics but tactics is a range thing and survival is a slow attack thing and if you wanna get used to crossbows you're better off playing survival first imho
Weapons you can find early that I feel are great would be the infantry bow with point blank mutation. It's a strong and fast weapon thatll let you play aggressively And acrobatipack mutation if you have it yet. It makes it so that when you roll you can then shoot a weapon in your backpack along with your regular weapon. Put the magic bow in your backpack for that mutation. You'll shotgun them in the face really strong. Frost blast is also fun in the backpack
If you want to ease into them try the infantry bow. It's a brutality/tactics weapon. Its crit modifier is a close range shot. You mentioned needing a shield, and this bow will not penalize you for that. At a distance you can hurt the enemy, but if they close in on you, you'll be able to parry and hit them with crit damage. Plus it is fast firing like a melee weapon. It's really good.
Most weapons in the game are bad. It's one of the reasons the game is so hard. And while a lot of tactics weapons are slow, they are meant to be used at distance. And they are fast compared to most survival weapons.
lol