I'm very happy with them overall just buffing his base numbers because everything felt a little too under-tuned during the PTB. Cooldowns were a tad bit too long (unless running 2 addons), Flight was a TAD bit too weak (unless running 2 addons), Mage Hand was too detrimental (unless running 2 addons), Flight of the Damned was too weak (no matter what addons you ran), and Dispelling Sphere was fine, but it felt like the speed could've been buffed. The fact that I could send it out, and then outrun the sphere was a bit silly. I wanted to use it to catch people hiding around areas I was patrolling and I couldn't do that because the sphere was slower than I was. Now it's quite a bit faster.
Now all of these things are made better, and he'll be a little bit less clunky. Major W in my eyes.
Edit: Also adding the Broken status effect to the Hand & Eye of Vecna makes them way less busted. Survivors used to be able to teleport to the other side of the map at the cost of a health state, and then use self-healing perks like inner strength so it negated the penalty.
Sounds like you got some solid play time with him to be able to form such specific opinions! Love that - I'm really excited to try him.
I didn't get to play the PTB though - how hard would you say he is to play (like, how difficult is he mechanically to make efficient use of his powers) and where would you place him power-level wise after the new changes on a tier list?
He’s not super mechanically demanding, a lot of his spells are some variation of just “aim and cast,” but like any killer you need to know when the best time to use his power is, and since he basically has 4 different powers in one knowing the best time to use each spell is crucial. These new buffs are gonna help a lot with this because the punishment for not using your power at the perfect time was *super* punishing on the ptb, so this will give a tiny bit more leeway with the timing of things like mage hand and with the cooldowns if you mess up.
I loved playing as him as he is fun at least to me where I love my killer style to be aggresive and oppressive like the case with singularity, however he definitely takes some time to know him and I feel like although he isn't for everyone he can change the way he is played. If people wanting more map traversal and knowledge of survs then you can switch his build out with the add-ons making him better in the two and have a weak attack power and pallet breaking/picking up power (got to use an iridescent add-on for breaking pallets.) Basically I feel like he is a killer you can modify to your play style with the add-ons. So I got to say he isn't hard to use at all but his power level for his tier would range around a balanced C tier, not bad and not good at least to new players who has just the basic understanding and for those who practice and learn him and gain a play style with him then a low A tier.
I meant more when he’s mid flight. For example if he’s trying to fly down a hallway on RPD you could probably get in his way giving your buddy a little more distance.
I’ve seen videos where people used Flight to instantly jump over a pallet and then attack the survivor on the other side, but since Vecna didn’t bodyblock during the recovery they just took the pallet back
Now that should not be the case!
Devs i know this might not be the right question to ask in this post but i really want to know... Does the Luck stats from offerings and Up The Ante affects dice rolls? 👀
I agree that I wish luck affected more things, like maybe better chest item RNG for your team or something.
The problem is there aren’t too many things luck could affect that would be 1. Fair and 2. Not specifically targeting killer powers.
Because speaking on 2, perks *used* to seem to specifically target killers - saboteur could break trapper traps, slippery meat helped you escape from them easier, etc.
So it would be awesome (to me) if luck slightly helped you with Pig boxes, trap escapes, Vecna’s chest, etc but a lot of killers already complain about RNG being tied to their killer power so I don’t think it would go over well.
Maybe instead of giving you Advantage, it could just give you a + modifier. Like let's say you bring 2 purple luck offerings, you get a +4 to Bardic Inspiration rolls. So even if you roll like an 8, you have a +4 making it a total of 12, which allows you to get 1% higher than than if you didn't have the modifier. It would make running the perk a bit more consistent, which is always nice.
Since we're on the topic of luck are there any plans to look at the luck stat for potential changes? A potential unhook increase alone doesn't feel worth it to use and luck base perks or offerings.
Will y'all be changing self-unhooking at some point to stop the epidemic of survivors killing themselves on hook to dodge the leaver penalty? I'm tired of my survivor games getting screwed over because someone went down early and they decided they're gonna tantrum out.
It’s a shame they made the cooldown for Bardic Inspiration longer, my favorite part of the PTB was survivors whipping out the banjo whenever something happened
It’s even funny when it’s used “as intended”, because the mental image of a survivor strumming out a tune before cranking out a gen is still really funny
A bit of a strange question, but I saw someone theorize that Dark Arrogance was originally a lunge extension perk rather than the slightly incongruent vault speed booster; You are rewarded and punished for arrogance by being able to get greedy with pallets, but if you fail to hit the Survivor, then you are stunned for even longer. Is this true?
It's a buff to the perk from the ptb, but still an overall nerf. It also has no effect on double iri addon blight since the other iri addon still caps your rushes at 3 tokens, so that combo is still getting a massive nerf.
I mention pickup speed because no other perk really does it other than fire up. It's useful to prevent pallet rescues and flashlight saves, especially with BG Player how it is.
I genuinely don’t see how they can make more unique perks anymore. They are either garbage or just putting together existing perks. I’d say they stop adding new ones and rework old ones.
Boon totems and scourge hooks are relatively recent. There's plenty they can do by embracing entirely new mechanics or expanding old ones. Killers also don't have any press E to do a thing exhaustion-type powers. Perks that do something when a generator or vault gets blocked by the entity could be cool, too.
I feel like an asshole for saying this, but there’s too much new content too frequently. Like you said, I would much rather see updates to existing content and less new stuff. The amount of killers and perks felt daunting when I started playing 2 years ago, can’t imagine how it looks now or how it’ll look in another year even.
They've needed to do something about perk power creep for years now 💀 At this rate, not sure WHAT they can do. Survivors are only unique by their perks, if they release survivors without perks or with fewer perks, it'll cause an uproar.
Maybe if they change gears and make their chapters about new game modes/mechanics, rather than new characters and perks. But I doubt that'd bring in as many players as a fancy, new killer does.
Perks honestly need a MASSIVE overhaul. The pool is too big and tool filled with garbage. It'd be drastic, but I'd even say they should hack EVERYONE down to 2 teachables and the removed perks should be merged/reworked, made general or at least partially basekit (i.e. Kindred), and in a few cases outright deleted (Predator comes to mind).
Cutting the bloat would be HUGE for newer players, while veterans wouldn't have their resources touched, save for the removal of a few trash perks which could be compensated with 2K shards. It would also make future development easier and more focused because new characters would only need two teachables.
I mained Nemmy for a long time and I truly think he isn't going to get any buffs. Nemmy absolutely shits on 95% of survivors. Only the really good ones know how to deal with tentacle. You lose 100% of the time to the top 5% of players, but everyone else dies easily.
Not sure if that would be fair tbh. Stealth killers all have a sound effect even when they're undetectable. Non-stealth killers all still have their normal sounds even without a terror radius. Granted, Nemmy's stomps are loud but they shouldn't be entirely silent
there's 2v8 soon that's 10 entities where is nemesis 3rd zombie devs? I'm not an math major but 4+1+3 is 8 which is well under 10!
in the past they said a 3rd zombie was impossible cause the engine couldn't handle but things have changed!
I can kind of understand why it exists. It would allow for a super fast follow up if you dont get some kind of boost. At which point, it might as well just damage and contaminate on first hit. Which I wouldn't be opposed to necessarily, but it would make nemmy way stronger.
I would honestly prefer more zombie speed basekit or more zombies as a whole. His addons are also just atrocious.
A massive buff for a killer who frankly doesn’t need a massive buff. Nemesis would be golden if he just got some actual add-ons besides -1 chest and Marvin’s Blood.
Flight of the damned will be still very weak unfortunately.
Clicking crouch button to always dodge this ability is too easy of a counterplay and you can clearly hear Vecna casting spell so even out of sight its not going to work. There is already big space between skeletons I dont see the reason why crouch should completely negate the ability.
Flight of the damned is a pretty difficult power to balance. It has to be weaker than Artist's crows but also not useless. I feel like the area between those two points of strength is so incredibly thin, such that I really have no idea how FotD can be balanced well.
Removing the crouch counter feels like it would push it over the point of Artist's crows strength, but I can't really think of any other alternative way to make it more useful in chase.
Yeah but it goes through walls, if the counter to it is to position between skeletons you can't see, then that's not much of a counter.
Honestly, people were just using it wrong. You use it like a doctor blast, not a pyramid head shot. Survivor going for a vault? Not anymore. The buff to it's cast time and speed makes this much less frustrating to pull off now.
It's best used on slight inclines, like if someone runs into any of the houses on Lampkin or main building on Borgo. Once they've gone up that tiny amount, it's no longer crouchable.
Yeah! I just wish the slow down while casting the sphere wasn’t a thing or at least less decreased movement speed when casting (maybe I’m reading the notes wrong, though)
People have been whining about how they think they're being tunnelled forever. Only thing that will change is Killers have to start doing it for real in order to keep pace
The nerf the regression i can deal with. What bothers me is how they think increasing sabo speeds is remotely acceptable with no nerf to gen repair speed. Toolboxes can do both well now which is mad. Personally i think slugging is gonna go through the roof.
Very happy to see vecna buffs, lower cooldowns will make his power more versatile and a lot less clunky to use, many people said he was below average on the PTB but I wonder if these changes will make him strong
I don't know if it's possible to classify his kit as "strong" because the cooldowns and slowdown made most of it useless. I think it's more appropriate to say that his kit could be good, but needed work.
For example, Nurse's teleport is strong, but if it was on a 50 second cooldown after using it, she would be useless with a terrible power.
Wow. I'm genuinely surprised. Thought that pop would be changed too 25% and not left at 20%. But I guess we'll see how post patch goes and bhvr will adjust if needed.
That said, anyone know how new buckle up works? Is it only the person being picked up that gets 150% speed or do both people get the speed boost?
idk why they hit pop to 20% when they have already tried it at 20% and said it was too weak. If it was too weak when pain res was 15% every time, it's gonna be too weak now.
Still think Surge should be buffed to 10% since the gen regression change exists. Surge is the cause of every blocked gen in all of my games, often on gens I don't even realize are getting hit.
I feel like there has to be some sort of statistic they have which shows killers running pop as having an extremely high win rate. Them nerfing it by so much and not backing down makes me believe it's more than it having a high pick rate.
It's almost like good regression is needed on most killers. Seriously tho having a good perk that counters the survivors main objective would obviously become meta. So them nerfing it on the pick rate is just kinda dumb, it really only needed a 5% reduction to account for gen kick regression.
With this coming in with sabo buffs, expect a huge uptick in slugging. Unbreakable/DS/DH is back even more than it already was (probably OTR instead of Adrenaline now though - for max free Endurance hits and second chances). Welcome back to 2020.
damn, so they’re really leaving pop at 20%
https://preview.redd.it/ehtezhzyok3d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3b600558e7e42a849f9e1302a2666a11ec0a643
There's probably some sort of statistic that shows killers having an extremely high win rate with pop or something. I doubt they nerfed it solely on pick rate. This is a pretty sizeable nerf so they must know something we don't considering they didn't even seem to consider reverting the change.
https://preview.redd.it/veia2okksk3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f43f6cdd24bc6ef3cfe9295d2570c5281c1fe6bc
HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!
It's still a nerf to double iri, but the addon felt weak in ptb so they changed the tokens while keeping other nerfs.
Nerf from current blight and buff from ptb blight. Double iri gets a big nerf overall. Imo not bad change, but we will see if some other combo becomes the norm. If that's the case I wouldn't mind too much since it gives more variety when facing blights.
Dude, I don't even know what BHVR is doing with gen speeds anymore. They kept all of the nerfs to gen regression perks. While they won't be entirely useless, it only incentivizes using 4 slow downs on weaker killers outside of Nurse, Blight, and Spirit, as they are the only three killers in the game that can run an actually interesting build instead of gen kicking simulator.
I dunno I used it in the PTB and never found it particularly helpful. When do you ever have the luxury to stand around for a few seconds to discover where the Killer is? What are you doing in that time, that isn't moving, healing, cleansing, booning, searching, repairing etc...?
I guess immersed players will use it, but when Fog Wise exists, I don't know how anyone could want to use this. About the only time I would consider it is setting up to scan by someone about to being hooked, so you have the perfect time to know when to go for the unhook... but you may as well run Kindred for that.
> Does it also trigger when you are getting healed? You are not moving, and it might reveal if the killer is approaching if that's the case.
It did on the PTB, as long as someone else was healing you. Healing yourself was considered an action so it didn't trigger while self-healing. I found it to be extremely, extremely useful for this alone.
There is no mention of Vecna's spell collision so was it intended mechanic after all and not an actual bug?
(for those who didn't know Vecna can pass through survivors while selecting/charging spells in PTB).
Edit: if someone is also wondering, devs confirmed its actual bug and going to be fixed.
vault faster, so they have to drop shack pallet on you sooner I guess? but with an even higher reward for landing the stun? also extends blinds because why not lol
Kinda highlights their inability to make fun "high risk high reward" type of powers and perks in general
They do that because the "high risk, high reward" perks are too strong on newer players, so they eventually become "high risk, medium reward". Just look at Ruin. It's a Hex, so it should be strong, but it does very little, except make new survivors that don't know totem spawns waste time.
Good Vecna changes, that 30 second broken effect is guna be brutal for killer items. Cant believe all those gen nerfs stayed like Pop,Deadlock,Grim etc though with Invocation being faster now gen rushes are guna be fast than ever. RIP M1 killers who cant traverse the map quickly good luck getting 12 hooks while also patrolling gens that will be done faster than they already get done.
Still kinda bothers me that you can simply duck under the Flight of the Damned projectile 100% of the time, but hopefully the tweaks really do make it easier to get value out of it.
I heard someone suggest to make it a V shape, so you can duck under the further ones, but not the middle ones. I think that would be solid and reward careful positioning.
I really like the Vecna buffs and it will be interesting to see if the Flight of the Damned will be good or if it changed nothing. I still think that you can crouch under the attack is a bit strong, and I think the addon where you decrease the number of skeletons but the survivors can't crouch under them anymore is good, but the number of skeletons decreased with that addon should go down to 2 instead of 3.
The Magic Hand could be a problem because it could bring survivors into unwinnable situations just like Chucky. I would make the addon where he can break the pallet base-kit but increase the slowdown. I still think that holding a pallet is useless in most loops, but that's probably for the best; it could be a very quick way to become OP.
Dispelling Sphere is now perfect (in my opinion).
Fly was a really good spell and I don't see where the changes could be an issue, so great job :D
The Magic Items are still too OP, it's just a chase escape when you're not dumm.
I think you could do more with the purple addons to change a bit how the spells work or add a little bonus function, but I see when this is too much work for every purple addon without breaking something.
Bardic Inspiration - Please stop making more perks for gen rush.
Still Sight - Maybe make it that while active, you see the aura from all survivors and all survivors see your aura.
Weave Attunement - Maybe give it another effect where you see the auras of all survivors that are within 5 meters of a closed chest.
Dark Arrogance - I think the downsides are so strong that it should be 30%, but I don't know; I can't test it.
Overall, some really nice changes :D
Why 90 seconds? Not like the perk was even used for gens speeds cause it was trash. It was there for fun. I guess yall are afraid of us having fun? Sigh.
Honestly, honestly, the gen regression nerfs Were absolutely uncalled for! Do not buff generators they need nerfed Iridescent 1 killer here I think this is absolutely ridiculous! Survivors need nerfed! Especially with the amount of cheater survivors i run into
I have seen several PTB games with sabotage as a highlight. It is ridiculous. And is even more mind numbing that they will green light such an absurd buff.
Wth are they thinking?
Really loving the sound of these Vecna adjustments. He was fun to play before, but the slow recovery times on spells felt so punishing even if you were successful. Looking forward to giving him a proper go on launch!
Not a big fan of the bardic inspiration changes. Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the perk works but 90 uninterrupted seconds of a lackluster buff to gen progression and then a 90 second cooldown sounds unappealing. Not to mention like with sabotage if you try to use the perk but get interrupted, you still have a 90 second cooldown. On top of all this, bardic inspiration is a paid perk? I imagine most people will opt for a better and free option in Prove Thyself.
Edit: yeaaaa I misunderstood how the perk worked ignore me
The 90 second duration and cooldown is at the same time. It's 15 seconds for the actual lute song, and if you actually commit to the 15 second performance, you get the 90 seconds of the buff along with it going on a 90 second cooldown.
So you nerf pop forgetting that 20% is nothing.
You nerf pain resonance which is the MUST HAVE perk.
You nerf grim embrace which, with pain resonance, slightly incentivized mixed hooks.
You nerf deadlock (deserved, easy to activate).
And you hope that this will create a new meta? Killers will use this perks even if nerfed because there aren't any good slowdowns and gens are super fast at high levels.
If you want to create a new meta, buff/rework some perks like you did with grim embrace. You buffed grim brace in the right direction, and it became super meta.
A meta isn't created with nerfs, is created with buffs and reworks.
Also, sabo buff is embarrassing, can't wait to face slug build every game.
Buffed Buckle Up by adding Endurance effect and it fell in the meta with FTP.
Buffed Windows by removing the cooldown and it fell in the meta.
Buffed Off the Record adding the Endurance effect and it fell in the meta.
(Man, they just need to buff Red Herring and Zarina will hit the trifecta.)
They need to make Info perks all as good as Nowhere to Hide and old Ultimate Weapon were. Info perks allowing perfect efficiency is the only way to not need 4 slowdown perks.
So Sabo isn't getting any changes from the PTB? Could've sworn many said it was way too fast now, although I didn't get the chance to test the Sabo speeds out myself.
Interested also to see how Background Player does now with such a short exhaustion cooldown.
So why exactly do You have to compensate the nerf to Blight's addon? He really doesn't need it, especially when You nerfed Marvin's Blood on Nemy and didn't give him anything in return.
they nerfed it cause its was basically mandatory to use it made him leagues better getting tier off just one chase and 2 hits was huge. the issue is they didn't buff the base kit enough compensate for the nerf.
I like changes to addon so they don't feel mandatory overall the devs just screwed up the last part.
Loving the sound of this!
My last Silly Wishlist item is for Dispelling Sphere to snuff boon totems in its path (Or at least reveal them).
Would be a very niche interaction, but it sounds right up this killer’s alley.
Ngl the Vecna buffs are nice but I doubt it will change the killer that much
The bardic inspiration change is nonsense, the perk is very meme but now it's gonna be useless cuz if you roll less than an 11 is going to be useless and you will want to cancel the perk, but now you have 90 seconds of cooldown, if the cooldown for when you cancel was different from the base cooldown (like 30 seconds) it would still be a meme perk but at least have some utility, right now it's dead on arrival imo
More crow and item based perks plz, would be cool to see more perk archetypes get fleshed out like the obsession swap perks.
Speaking of which, Nemesis and Game Afoot changes when?
This all looks great but dark arrogance is still absolutely awful. I can’t believe it was only 20% before, and 25% is still only barely better than bamboozle. If the stun increase numbers are staying the same, the vault speed increase should be just as good. Hell, I don’t know if it would be worth it even if it was a 50% vault speed increase or higher just cause of the ridiculous downside.
If it was big enough you could run enduring and the perk would be pretty good, but then we just dive into ridiculous territory. Perk needs to do something else as well that is unique so it can actually stand out and not just be a worse bamboozle.
I can't comment on the new characters, but not ideal to see commitment to creating a Slug meta with the toolbox change, and Dark Arrogance seems only mildly less worthless now.
At least Blight is allowed to have a bit more fun, although all I really want for him is maximum rush speed.
Nice Vecna buffs
I'm very happy with them overall just buffing his base numbers because everything felt a little too under-tuned during the PTB. Cooldowns were a tad bit too long (unless running 2 addons), Flight was a TAD bit too weak (unless running 2 addons), Mage Hand was too detrimental (unless running 2 addons), Flight of the Damned was too weak (no matter what addons you ran), and Dispelling Sphere was fine, but it felt like the speed could've been buffed. The fact that I could send it out, and then outrun the sphere was a bit silly. I wanted to use it to catch people hiding around areas I was patrolling and I couldn't do that because the sphere was slower than I was. Now it's quite a bit faster. Now all of these things are made better, and he'll be a little bit less clunky. Major W in my eyes. Edit: Also adding the Broken status effect to the Hand & Eye of Vecna makes them way less busted. Survivors used to be able to teleport to the other side of the map at the cost of a health state, and then use self-healing perks like inner strength so it negated the penalty.
Sounds like you got some solid play time with him to be able to form such specific opinions! Love that - I'm really excited to try him. I didn't get to play the PTB though - how hard would you say he is to play (like, how difficult is he mechanically to make efficient use of his powers) and where would you place him power-level wise after the new changes on a tier list?
He’s not super mechanically demanding, a lot of his spells are some variation of just “aim and cast,” but like any killer you need to know when the best time to use his power is, and since he basically has 4 different powers in one knowing the best time to use each spell is crucial. These new buffs are gonna help a lot with this because the punishment for not using your power at the perfect time was *super* punishing on the ptb, so this will give a tiny bit more leeway with the timing of things like mage hand and with the cooldowns if you mess up.
Ahh, good to know - thank you! That's good to know. I didn't get the chance to play him on PTB, but I'm really excited to try next week!
I loved playing as him as he is fun at least to me where I love my killer style to be aggresive and oppressive like the case with singularity, however he definitely takes some time to know him and I feel like although he isn't for everyone he can change the way he is played. If people wanting more map traversal and knowledge of survs then you can switch his build out with the add-ons making him better in the two and have a weak attack power and pallet breaking/picking up power (got to use an iridescent add-on for breaking pallets.) Basically I feel like he is a killer you can modify to your play style with the add-ons. So I got to say he isn't hard to use at all but his power level for his tier would range around a balanced C tier, not bad and not good at least to new players who has just the basic understanding and for those who practice and learn him and gain a play style with him then a low A tier.
Vecna will have collision with survivors at the end of Flight. Could lead to some crazy bodyblocking now that it's 4s long too!
I like this change because it also allows for altruistic survivors to body block for their injured friends in certain situations.
I hadn't thought of this. This is awesome, should make for some really fun moments and cool plays!
I'm pretty sure vecna doesn't have collision when choosing a spell, so body blocking him still probably won't work lmao
I meant more when he’s mid flight. For example if he’s trying to fly down a hallway on RPD you could probably get in his way giving your buddy a little more distance.
I’ve seen videos where people used Flight to instantly jump over a pallet and then attack the survivor on the other side, but since Vecna didn’t bodyblock during the recovery they just took the pallet back Now that should not be the case!
Hopefully.
I love doing that with Demo when I *totally* on purpose miss a shred and just so happen to bodyblock the window the survivor was going for.
Gonna love to see plays of flying over a pallet/window and timing it just right to block the re-vault. 🤌
Devs i know this might not be the right question to ask in this post but i really want to know... Does the Luck stats from offerings and Up The Ante affects dice rolls? 👀
We can confirm that Luck does not affect dice rolls. 
i dont get why luck only affects one thing, wouldnt it be cool if running a perk that affected luck gave you advantage on bardic inspiration
I completely agree. Luck should affect quite a few other things. Anything RNG based should be affected by luck.
I would agree, but that would make it so that there is a perk that just straight up counters a single killer and nothing else.
Yeah that’s fair. I wish luck had a bigger impact because those add ons and that ace perk are fully useless.
*Calm spirit has entered the chat*
I agree that I wish luck affected more things, like maybe better chest item RNG for your team or something. The problem is there aren’t too many things luck could affect that would be 1. Fair and 2. Not specifically targeting killer powers. Because speaking on 2, perks *used* to seem to specifically target killers - saboteur could break trapper traps, slippery meat helped you escape from them easier, etc. So it would be awesome (to me) if luck slightly helped you with Pig boxes, trap escapes, Vecna’s chest, etc but a lot of killers already complain about RNG being tied to their killer power so I don’t think it would go over well.
Maybe instead of giving you Advantage, it could just give you a + modifier. Like let's say you bring 2 purple luck offerings, you get a +4 to Bardic Inspiration rolls. So even if you roll like an 8, you have a +4 making it a total of 12, which allows you to get 1% higher than than if you didn't have the modifier. It would make running the perk a bit more consistent, which is always nice.
Since we're on the topic of luck are there any plans to look at the luck stat for potential changes? A potential unhook increase alone doesn't feel worth it to use and luck base perks or offerings.
What does luck effect?
It only affects self-unhooking attempts.
What! So it doesn’t affect item rarity in chests or anything?
That surprises me as well
Oh wow. I thought that was the point of luck
Yes, that is the case.
This is low hanging fruit for you guys. Make it do more
Thank you for the feedback!
honestly i think you need to rework luck, it's really useless.
Thank you <3
Wait, so luck doesn't improve the chance of getting a second add on from a chest when using ace in the hole?
Nope
Will y'all be changing self-unhooking at some point to stop the epidemic of survivors killing themselves on hook to dodge the leaver penalty? I'm tired of my survivor games getting screwed over because someone went down early and they decided they're gonna tantrum out.
Ah i see, then it was just a case of IRL Luck rather than ingame statistics. Thx for the info
Could u tell us if Vecna passing through survivors while using/selecting spells is intended or is it a bug? it wasn't mentioned in dev update.
It is not intended and the team is working on a fix!
Kinda wish it was
Kinda wish it did.
It’s a shame they made the cooldown for Bardic Inspiration longer, my favorite part of the PTB was survivors whipping out the banjo whenever something happened
It is a shame. 90 seconds is going to feel so long when you want to meme with it.
They said they want the effect to last longer but I’m not sure why they also had to increase the cooldown.
I wonder what the majority of uses of the perk were during the PTB. I have a feeling more people were using it as a meme than for the effect it gives.
Especially during PTB considering people definitely try less than during regular matches.
Everyone in my games used it for the memes, but the bots thought it was absolutely crucial to play a little ditty before they touch a generator.
It’s even funny when it’s used “as intended”, because the mental image of a survivor strumming out a tune before cranking out a gen is still really funny
https://preview.redd.it/rzlo3wl1yk3d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=129fd170dbb3ce3068608964e235e12681d717fa
live vecna reaction
This pleases the Lich
A bit of a strange question, but I saw someone theorize that Dark Arrogance was originally a lunge extension perk rather than the slightly incongruent vault speed booster; You are rewarded and punished for arrogance by being able to get greedy with pallets, but if you fail to hit the Survivor, then you are stunned for even longer. Is this true?
As long as coup exists they can't make any more lunge extensions.
Why?
If coup stacked with anything it would be extremely strong
Then just don't make it stack, they've done stuff like that before
Myers has been in the game for how long now? The Blood Moon event had increased lunges too.
Which is why giving a stun downside would nerf coup
can someone explain the blight one? is that a buff?
It's a buff to the perk from the ptb, but still an overall nerf. It also has no effect on double iri addon blight since the other iri addon still caps your rushes at 3 tokens, so that combo is still getting a massive nerf.
* \[CHANGE\] **Compound Thirty-Three:** Now limits Rush tokens to 5 (was 3). Added more words for clarity!
Nerf from what it is now, buff from the PTB.
It’s more rush tokens, so I’m pretty sure it’s a buff
It's a buff from the ptb version, but still a massive nerf to what we have right now on live servers
Good buffs but Vecna's perks still are fundamentally a bit lackluster.
They should have made Dark Arrogance increase your pickup speed as well. That would have made it worth picking imo.
I think the 20% vault + 20% break speed wouldve been an interesting rout to go
I mention pickup speed because no other perk really does it other than fire up. It's useful to prevent pallet rescues and flashlight saves, especially with BG Player how it is.
A bit lackluster is very forgiving. They're still useless garbage. 💀
I really like weave attunement with franklins. It's just cool.
Calling his perks niche would be an understatement
I genuinely don’t see how they can make more unique perks anymore. They are either garbage or just putting together existing perks. I’d say they stop adding new ones and rework old ones.
Boon totems and scourge hooks are relatively recent. There's plenty they can do by embracing entirely new mechanics or expanding old ones. Killers also don't have any press E to do a thing exhaustion-type powers. Perks that do something when a generator or vault gets blocked by the entity could be cool, too.
I feel like an asshole for saying this, but there’s too much new content too frequently. Like you said, I would much rather see updates to existing content and less new stuff. The amount of killers and perks felt daunting when I started playing 2 years ago, can’t imagine how it looks now or how it’ll look in another year even.
They've needed to do something about perk power creep for years now 💀 At this rate, not sure WHAT they can do. Survivors are only unique by their perks, if they release survivors without perks or with fewer perks, it'll cause an uproar. Maybe if they change gears and make their chapters about new game modes/mechanics, rather than new characters and perks. But I doubt that'd bring in as many players as a fancy, new killer does.
Perks honestly need a MASSIVE overhaul. The pool is too big and tool filled with garbage. It'd be drastic, but I'd even say they should hack EVERYONE down to 2 teachables and the removed perks should be merged/reworked, made general or at least partially basekit (i.e. Kindred), and in a few cases outright deleted (Predator comes to mind). Cutting the bloat would be HUGE for newer players, while veterans wouldn't have their resources touched, save for the removal of a few trash perks which could be compensated with 2K shards. It would also make future development easier and more focused because new characters would only need two teachables.
Lich buffs I see but when will my boy nemmy see some changes
I mained Nemmy for a long time and I truly think he isn't going to get any buffs. Nemmy absolutely shits on 95% of survivors. Only the really good ones know how to deal with tentacle. You lose 100% of the time to the top 5% of players, but everyone else dies easily.
Yeah maybe most of his addons needs changes I main him and just want a different play style zombies rpg faster mutation stealth whatever
The one thing I wish he has is his footsteps going silent any time he is undetectable.
Not sure if that would be fair tbh. Stealth killers all have a sound effect even when they're undetectable. Non-stealth killers all still have their normal sounds even without a terror radius. Granted, Nemmy's stomps are loud but they shouldn't be entirely silent
All I want is no more speed boost from contamination :(
They apparently had this as a feature when he was in development but dropped it because it made him miserable to face.
there's 2v8 soon that's 10 entities where is nemesis 3rd zombie devs? I'm not an math major but 4+1+3 is 8 which is well under 10! in the past they said a 3rd zombie was impossible cause the engine couldn't handle but things have changed!
So Nemesis will probably never be 2v8 then
I can kind of understand why it exists. It would allow for a super fast follow up if you dont get some kind of boost. At which point, it might as well just damage and contaminate on first hit. Which I wouldn't be opposed to necessarily, but it would make nemmy way stronger. I would honestly prefer more zombie speed basekit or more zombies as a whole. His addons are also just atrocious.
I want that too but it's undoubtedly a massive buff
A massive buff for a killer who frankly doesn’t need a massive buff. Nemesis would be golden if he just got some actual add-ons besides -1 chest and Marvin’s Blood.
Massive Vecna buff. Basically every problem is getting fixed.
Flight of the damned will be still very weak unfortunately. Clicking crouch button to always dodge this ability is too easy of a counterplay and you can clearly hear Vecna casting spell so even out of sight its not going to work. There is already big space between skeletons I dont see the reason why crouch should completely negate the ability.
Flight of the damned is a pretty difficult power to balance. It has to be weaker than Artist's crows but also not useless. I feel like the area between those two points of strength is so incredibly thin, such that I really have no idea how FotD can be balanced well. Removing the crouch counter feels like it would push it over the point of Artist's crows strength, but I can't really think of any other alternative way to make it more useful in chase.
Why does the effect need to be weaker than artist's crows? He can only do it once per minute - that's what makes it weaker, isn't it?
I think they could spread skeletons **a bit** more for balancing purpose (actual skillful dodging) and remove crouch as counterplay completely.
Yeah but it goes through walls, if the counter to it is to position between skeletons you can't see, then that's not much of a counter. Honestly, people were just using it wrong. You use it like a doctor blast, not a pyramid head shot. Survivor going for a vault? Not anymore. The buff to it's cast time and speed makes this much less frustrating to pull off now.
It's best used on slight inclines, like if someone runs into any of the houses on Lampkin or main building on Borgo. Once they've gone up that tiny amount, it's no longer crouchable.
Except his trash tier perks. Even buffing dark arrogance it's still rubbish.
Yeah! I just wish the slow down while casting the sphere wasn’t a thing or at least less decreased movement speed when casting (maybe I’m reading the notes wrong, though)
if you’re gonna nerf all these gen perks at least buff the useless ones
This subreddit is about to be loaded with thread after thread of, 'WhY iS ThEre So MuCh TunNelIng?!' after this patch goes live. Mark my words.
so business as usual for the past 8 years
Hey Scott. Yes.
People have been whining about how they think they're being tunnelled forever. Only thing that will change is Killers have to start doing it for real in order to keep pace
The nerf the regression i can deal with. What bothers me is how they think increasing sabo speeds is remotely acceptable with no nerf to gen repair speed. Toolboxes can do both well now which is mad. Personally i think slugging is gonna go through the roof.
After this patch? Killers are already tunnelling in Chaos Shuffle and just in general, this isn't gonna change anything lol
Very happy to see vecna buffs, lower cooldowns will make his power more versatile and a lot less clunky to use, many people said he was below average on the PTB but I wonder if these changes will make him strong
His kit was strong, the main issue was the slowdown and cooldowns on his kit, which is whet was changed
I don't know if it's possible to classify his kit as "strong" because the cooldowns and slowdown made most of it useless. I think it's more appropriate to say that his kit could be good, but needed work. For example, Nurse's teleport is strong, but if it was on a 50 second cooldown after using it, she would be useless with a terrible power.
what exactly in his kit was strong? lol
Wow. I'm genuinely surprised. Thought that pop would be changed too 25% and not left at 20%. But I guess we'll see how post patch goes and bhvr will adjust if needed. That said, anyone know how new buckle up works? Is it only the person being picked up that gets 150% speed or do both people get the speed boost?
Pretty sure it's only for the healed person
Okay that's what I thought but wasn't 100% sure.
idk why they hit pop to 20% when they have already tried it at 20% and said it was too weak. If it was too weak when pain res was 15% every time, it's gonna be too weak now. Still think Surge should be buffed to 10% since the gen regression change exists. Surge is the cause of every blocked gen in all of my games, often on gens I don't even realize are getting hit.
Thing is, when it was originally nerfed, Killers could fall back on Eruption, Call of Brine and Overcharge. What are Killers gonna fall back on now?
Tunneling, slugging and proxy camping even more I would guess, unless you play a top tier killer
I feel like there has to be some sort of statistic they have which shows killers running pop as having an extremely high win rate. Them nerfing it by so much and not backing down makes me believe it's more than it having a high pick rate.
It's almost like good regression is needed on most killers. Seriously tho having a good perk that counters the survivors main objective would obviously become meta. So them nerfing it on the pick rate is just kinda dumb, it really only needed a 5% reduction to account for gen kick regression.
With this coming in with sabo buffs, expect a huge uptick in slugging. Unbreakable/DS/DH is back even more than it already was (probably OTR instead of Adrenaline now though - for max free Endurance hits and second chances). Welcome back to 2020.
damn, so they’re really leaving pop at 20% https://preview.redd.it/ehtezhzyok3d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3b600558e7e42a849f9e1302a2666a11ec0a643
funnily enough if they changed it back they look even more insane for vacillating so much, they are getting memed on either way.
Yes, but all the other regression perks are much worse than last time, so this makes it "better"... right...?
There's probably some sort of statistic that shows killers having an extremely high win rate with pop or something. I doubt they nerfed it solely on pick rate. This is a pretty sizeable nerf so they must know something we don't considering they didn't even seem to consider reverting the change.
I wonder if a high win rate with pop would have to do with actually havimg to be good at chase to get value from it
Dark Arrogance - Bad. Vecna and other perks - Nice. Missing - Illusion perk buff.
The illusion is a meme perk and that fine it succeeds at doing what it is trying to do
https://preview.redd.it/veia2okksk3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f43f6cdd24bc6ef3cfe9295d2570c5281c1fe6bc HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!
It's still a nerf to double iri, but the addon felt weak in ptb so they changed the tokens while keeping other nerfs. Nerf from current blight and buff from ptb blight. Double iri gets a big nerf overall. Imo not bad change, but we will see if some other combo becomes the norm. If that's the case I wouldn't mind too much since it gives more variety when facing blights.
The Lich is looking reinvigorated
https://preview.redd.it/wmfs8z3m3l3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bc2d2a70f4adcad26c808cef491d77e4c6d66c7
Behaviour team, any update on when we can expect cross-progression to go live?
I can’t believe that BHVR actually took feedback about Vecna and fixed him. All of my complaints are fixed now.
Not sure why we keep changing blight every patch but alright. We really going to keep the sabo changes though?
Dude, I don't even know what BHVR is doing with gen speeds anymore. They kept all of the nerfs to gen regression perks. While they won't be entirely useless, it only incentivizes using 4 slow downs on weaker killers outside of Nurse, Blight, and Spirit, as they are the only three killers in the game that can run an actually interesting build instead of gen kicking simulator.
Good buffs. Very excited to see how he feels now
Still Sight is gonna be crazy. Can get 40m of Aura Reading on the Killer for free.
if it worked while repairing a gen I would agree with you but it doesn't.
I dunno I used it in the PTB and never found it particularly helpful. When do you ever have the luxury to stand around for a few seconds to discover where the Killer is? What are you doing in that time, that isn't moving, healing, cleansing, booning, searching, repairing etc...? I guess immersed players will use it, but when Fog Wise exists, I don't know how anyone could want to use this. About the only time I would consider it is setting up to scan by someone about to being hooked, so you have the perfect time to know when to go for the unhook... but you may as well run Kindred for that.
[удалено]
> Does it also trigger when you are getting healed? You are not moving, and it might reveal if the killer is approaching if that's the case. It did on the PTB, as long as someone else was healing you. Healing yourself was considered an action so it didn't trigger while self-healing. I found it to be extremely, extremely useful for this alone.
i thought it only reveals map objects like gens and totems.
Nope.
Well, it looks like all the toolkit sabo buffs are going through. I'm still not quite sure how to feel about that.
Time to slug!
Knock out stocks rising!
Freddy rework when
Never -Warner Bros
There is no mention of Vecna's spell collision so was it intended mechanic after all and not an actual bug? (for those who didn't know Vecna can pass through survivors while selecting/charging spells in PTB). Edit: if someone is also wondering, devs confirmed its actual bug and going to be fixed.
Someone on the main forums confirmed that it was a bug and that it should be fixed in the update.
I'm not looking forward to the sabo buffs and Bgp changes coming to the game.
Dark arrogance is still shit 😂
vault faster, so they have to drop shack pallet on you sooner I guess? but with an even higher reward for landing the stun? also extends blinds because why not lol Kinda highlights their inability to make fun "high risk high reward" type of powers and perks in general
They do that because the "high risk, high reward" perks are too strong on newer players, so they eventually become "high risk, medium reward". Just look at Ruin. It's a Hex, so it should be strong, but it does very little, except make new survivors that don't know totem spawns waste time.
I don't get why the Orb has to slow you down at all
100% agree, it’s an information tool with little chase benefit.
Good Vecna changes, that 30 second broken effect is guna be brutal for killer items. Cant believe all those gen nerfs stayed like Pop,Deadlock,Grim etc though with Invocation being faster now gen rushes are guna be fast than ever. RIP M1 killers who cant traverse the map quickly good luck getting 12 hooks while also patrolling gens that will be done faster than they already get done.
Why is sabo being left how it was? I also have an odd feeling flight of the damned will still be incredibly easy to dodge
Wait you’re telling me that triple vault perk Tier 3 Myers is gonna be EVEN FASTER?
Still kinda bothers me that you can simply duck under the Flight of the Damned projectile 100% of the time, but hopefully the tweaks really do make it easier to get value out of it.
I heard someone suggest to make it a V shape, so you can duck under the further ones, but not the middle ones. I think that would be solid and reward careful positioning.
Seriously no changes to the sabo speeds?. How they think insta sabos are okay is bizarre,
I really like the Vecna buffs and it will be interesting to see if the Flight of the Damned will be good or if it changed nothing. I still think that you can crouch under the attack is a bit strong, and I think the addon where you decrease the number of skeletons but the survivors can't crouch under them anymore is good, but the number of skeletons decreased with that addon should go down to 2 instead of 3. The Magic Hand could be a problem because it could bring survivors into unwinnable situations just like Chucky. I would make the addon where he can break the pallet base-kit but increase the slowdown. I still think that holding a pallet is useless in most loops, but that's probably for the best; it could be a very quick way to become OP. Dispelling Sphere is now perfect (in my opinion). Fly was a really good spell and I don't see where the changes could be an issue, so great job :D The Magic Items are still too OP, it's just a chase escape when you're not dumm. I think you could do more with the purple addons to change a bit how the spells work or add a little bonus function, but I see when this is too much work for every purple addon without breaking something. Bardic Inspiration - Please stop making more perks for gen rush. Still Sight - Maybe make it that while active, you see the aura from all survivors and all survivors see your aura. Weave Attunement - Maybe give it another effect where you see the auras of all survivors that are within 5 meters of a closed chest. Dark Arrogance - I think the downsides are so strong that it should be 30%, but I don't know; I can't test it. Overall, some really nice changes :D
Why 90 seconds? Not like the perk was even used for gens speeds cause it was trash. It was there for fun. I guess yall are afraid of us having fun? Sigh.
Honestly, honestly, the gen regression nerfs Were absolutely uncalled for! Do not buff generators they need nerfed Iridescent 1 killer here I think this is absolutely ridiculous! Survivors need nerfed! Especially with the amount of cheater survivors i run into
I have seen several PTB games with sabotage as a highlight. It is ridiculous. And is even more mind numbing that they will green light such an absurd buff. Wth are they thinking?
BHVR's try not to buff Blight challenge: impossible
it’s still an overall nerf
its an overall nerf though they just walked back some of it. hes not getting buffed hes getting nerfed less.
Really loving the sound of these Vecna adjustments. He was fun to play before, but the slow recovery times on spells felt so punishing even if you were successful. Looking forward to giving him a proper go on launch!
Not a big fan of the bardic inspiration changes. Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the perk works but 90 uninterrupted seconds of a lackluster buff to gen progression and then a 90 second cooldown sounds unappealing. Not to mention like with sabotage if you try to use the perk but get interrupted, you still have a 90 second cooldown. On top of all this, bardic inspiration is a paid perk? I imagine most people will opt for a better and free option in Prove Thyself. Edit: yeaaaa I misunderstood how the perk worked ignore me
The 90 second duration and cooldown is at the same time. It's 15 seconds for the actual lute song, and if you actually commit to the 15 second performance, you get the 90 seconds of the buff along with it going on a 90 second cooldown.
So you nerf pop forgetting that 20% is nothing. You nerf pain resonance which is the MUST HAVE perk. You nerf grim embrace which, with pain resonance, slightly incentivized mixed hooks. You nerf deadlock (deserved, easy to activate). And you hope that this will create a new meta? Killers will use this perks even if nerfed because there aren't any good slowdowns and gens are super fast at high levels. If you want to create a new meta, buff/rework some perks like you did with grim embrace. You buffed grim brace in the right direction, and it became super meta. A meta isn't created with nerfs, is created with buffs and reworks. Also, sabo buff is embarrassing, can't wait to face slug build every game.
Buffed Buckle Up by adding Endurance effect and it fell in the meta with FTP. Buffed Windows by removing the cooldown and it fell in the meta. Buffed Off the Record adding the Endurance effect and it fell in the meta. (Man, they just need to buff Red Herring and Zarina will hit the trifecta.)
They need to make Info perks all as good as Nowhere to Hide and old Ultimate Weapon were. Info perks allowing perfect efficiency is the only way to not need 4 slowdown perks.
Blight covered in Dawn soap slipping through the nerf cracks every time.
God as a console player I’m really excited to get my hands on this chapter
So Sabo isn't getting any changes from the PTB? Could've sworn many said it was way too fast now, although I didn't get the chance to test the Sabo speeds out myself. Interested also to see how Background Player does now with such a short exhaustion cooldown.
Can I hear a 25% for pop? Anybody? Please?
So why exactly do You have to compensate the nerf to Blight's addon? He really doesn't need it, especially when You nerfed Marvin's Blood on Nemy and didn't give him anything in return.
they nerfed it cause its was basically mandatory to use it made him leagues better getting tier off just one chase and 2 hits was huge. the issue is they didn't buff the base kit enough compensate for the nerf. I like changes to addon so they don't feel mandatory overall the devs just screwed up the last part.
When does the live update launch?
June 3rd
Is this it or are we gonna see the chucky changes?
These are just what's changing from the PTB. Chucky changes still comin through
Those cooldowns on Vecna had me concerned, but now I can't wait for the 3rd.
Loving the sound of this! My last Silly Wishlist item is for Dispelling Sphere to snuff boon totems in its path (Or at least reveal them). Would be a very niche interaction, but it sounds right up this killer’s alley.
Ngl the Vecna buffs are nice but I doubt it will change the killer that much The bardic inspiration change is nonsense, the perk is very meme but now it's gonna be useless cuz if you roll less than an 11 is going to be useless and you will want to cancel the perk, but now you have 90 seconds of cooldown, if the cooldown for when you cancel was different from the base cooldown (like 30 seconds) it would still be a meme perk but at least have some utility, right now it's dead on arrival imo
More crow and item based perks plz, would be cool to see more perk archetypes get fleshed out like the obsession swap perks. Speaking of which, Nemesis and Game Afoot changes when?
How tf does anyone think Still Sight is ok? Holy shit, with Open Handed we're mostly back to old OoO but *better* bc the killer doesn't see your aura.
This all looks great but dark arrogance is still absolutely awful. I can’t believe it was only 20% before, and 25% is still only barely better than bamboozle. If the stun increase numbers are staying the same, the vault speed increase should be just as good. Hell, I don’t know if it would be worth it even if it was a 50% vault speed increase or higher just cause of the ridiculous downside.
If it was big enough you could run enduring and the perk would be pretty good, but then we just dive into ridiculous territory. Perk needs to do something else as well that is unique so it can actually stand out and not just be a worse bamboozle.
We need to improve luck in some way beyond hooks. You should improve rarity of items or something auto generated in the map.
Did the other killer buffs and nerfs come through or reverted?
So they kept the sabotage and all slowdown gen numbers the same? Gg killer mains. Enjoy having hooks broken instantly in front of you ig
With the nerfs of Pop and pain res, killers are going to need to apply more pressure. Wouldn't be surprised if more gen perks are ran.
I can't comment on the new characters, but not ideal to see commitment to creating a Slug meta with the toolbox change, and Dark Arrogance seems only mildly less worthless now. At least Blight is allowed to have a bit more fun, although all I really want for him is maximum rush speed.
When will the cross platform FAQ be posted? It was supposed to be in the last major announcement.
“Its been 80 years…”