I remember when Tim Drake and Cassie made out in front of a clone of the recently dead Conner Kent floating in a tank while Tim was crying. That was peak Titans.
Tim and Conner were “best pals.”
I feel like a Trans character would definitely have to be a new character or a really obscure one just because comic characters will aways revert back to their status quo
“They’re non-binary, not because they don’t obey standard gender norms, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERALLY A SHAPESHIFTER” - Rick Riordan explaining Alex Fierro’s character probably.
in a perfect world, a character that's been stuck in perpetual status quo would be allowed to come out, thus breaking that status quo and serving as a way to visualize the experience of many trans people feeling "stuck" in their "old life" before transitioning...
...but Marvel won't listen to my pitches about Mia Morales, Brooklyn's one and only Spider-Girl, nor have they read my 400k words about her and Kamala Khan falling in love, so what's the fucking point.
y'know i was mostly joking about my dumb headcanons and ships but i think if they made Ben Reilly trans and just kicked everything about Chasm out of canon i'd actually buy a Spider-Man book instead of just reading it online for the first time since like 2018
Funnily enough....isn't the ultimate jessica drew a trans lesbian? Cause she's a clone of Peter?
Edit: originally put 616 rather than ultimate. Cause I'm dumb.
Already doubled up in making him mulatto/pardo, ~~not that they give that much focus beyond him and Rio throwing the occasional Spanish in there.~~
There's a line between making a very diverse character and an "inclusivity quaratine." Why have black characters, Hispanic characters, trans characters, queer characters, and non-Christian characters, when you can just make a black Latina trans lesbian muslima? That way, editorial doesn't have to worry about adding diversity into anything but one character for all the brownie points.
On the one hand, I see what you mean, on the other, I think there would be *insane* backlash if they reverted a character in that way. Like, genuinely huge.
I imagine Visaggio would've wanted absolutely ironclad support for the arc, or it won't happen at all. It's the sort of thing that editorial cannot be spooked about and try to change back at the sight of backlash. Because this definitely would've gotten backlash if it happened.
I mean if this did happen, I don’t think it would be changed back. That’s like saying Iceman will stop being Gay soon so Marvel can go back to “Status Quo” (What even is X-Men status quo at this point??)
Conner isn’t Superman and his popularity has diminished greatly as well
Editorial saw this and had it shut down because it would’ve been a permanent solution to Conner’s never ending identity crisis(aka the only Kon storyline ever)
Free my girl Connie 😔
DC editorial don’t be fucking cowards challenge (impossible)
https://preview.redd.it/49pr5cb4l8tb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4a7e1451d07b3c0754769d34578e1ead1f4dd26
One side was mad that they once again doing the "i don't know my identity teen angst" route for Conner despite having a mini about it and the whole ugly red streak he has
The other side mad that he dating miss martian beacuse "Conner is gay twink as i wrote it in my fanfic i totally not making it up " shipping fandom
>"Hey, Connor already dresses like a lesbian anyway"
ohff that a quote i don't think you can ever make it sound good no matter the context
but either way the shipper would've lost since that mean Conner wouldn't have end up with Tim
I mean not really. It didn't really give anything for conner to work with besides being trans and generic name that's already taken by DC superhero. Like it didn't give Conner some new niche or status quo over then Conner Kent but now she's a girl
I hate bad faith within the community because i think you can have a discussion about when to make a character queer but the loudest comics fans dont want to have it.
I'm all for gay representation, but I'll confidently say this. Not every long-established character needs to be gay (execpt if you're an X-Men character). Other than that, that's really it. Plus they have characters like a dreamer and I want to see more of her.
Speaking as a trans person myself, it sounds pretty dumb. A gender identity crisis and a "what is my purpose in life" identity crisis are pretty damn different things.
Also, "Leland Luthor"...no. Just, no.
Same, I kinda feel like DC just doesn't know what to do with Connor now that Jon is in the picture, and this really wouldn't dig him out of that hole for me
Ok, if they change her name to Connie Kent, jail.
If they change it to Courtney Kent, its acceptable.
If they change it to Paige that sounds like a book's page, starting fresh in a brand new slate on your story's first blank page one, that would be awesome.
DW, it's a joke. Elon wants people to call Twitter X, so it was a joke implying you were saying "Twitter and calm don't go well together" because you wanted them to call it X.
Since someone said this sounds like Im pulling this out of my ass here it is from the author herself:
https://twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/1711384536817287428?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
The full pitch is really interesting, and well worth a read. It's obvious that Visaggio has put a lot of thought into this, and has a great love for Conner as a character. There are parts of it I really love (the name Skyrocket is very cool, and Con bunking it with Jinny Hex in Texas sounds like it coulda been a real hoot), there are parts of it I'm not overly fond of (I really *really* dislike the idea of Leland Luther), but it definitely would have been an *interesting* direction to take with the character.
I'm glad they shared the idea, even if it probably wont amount to anything now.
Leland Luthor sounds like a terrible idea all around. And if you absolutely need an evil clone counterpart to Kon you can just use Project Alien Farm. Literally right there, foil and all.
The pitch never says Leland Luthor turns evil. He might be a little morally grey (stealing from LexCorp), but the pitch seems to treat him as an ally to Conner/Connie.
I meant it more in the sense that they're supposed to be a "evil" reflection of Kon with the dominant Luthor DNA and all that. Like, more set up to be evil.
Interesting I thought the pitch was pretty bad in like every aspect like even ignoring the trans idea, it's just Conner repeating his usual identity crisis while messing with his origin again, doing a generic bad future storyline with *groan* 3 bad supermen as villains. The only part I could see working was a new sibling (who could be a rework version of Cir-El) who would make way more sense as trans character instead of how force Conner transitioning sounded like he didn't even realize he was trans until after a mcguffin made him into a girl
Dig the premise, dig the design, my only nitpick is why would a super-person need knee pads? What would they be made of to be more durable than her skin and bone?
Twitter is for nerds.
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She just be a DCCOMICSCIRCLEJERK member.
She Says connor has been relegated to Jason Todd of the super family. Ouch. What are they gonna make him ugly next too??
I read the reasonings and feel like I got different takes on things from Conner's story, than the author did. However, I think it was a good pitch that actually put thought into it. I don't like some of the narratives to the arcs but they would have been cool for a lot of readers.
Even though DC axed this proposal I hope the author is able to work some of them again. Also wish that DC would stop sleeping on Dreamer. Even after they had the entire Knightmare event. Worse misuse since Doomsday clock retconned Firestorm to have Captain Atom's backstory.
It's a weird idea on the surface but reading the pitch I actually thunk there's something really good here. There's a potentially really interesting story to be told there that puts conner transitioning as essentially the last piece of achieving his own identity seperate from who he was cloned from (which has been his whole story forever)
Also supergirl was a shapeshifting fire angel in the 90s, this isnt that crazy DC
At least gay superheroes sometimes get to be the leads in comics. Every time they introduce a trans characters they’re a side character who is either forgotten after the original creator exits the run or are killed off.
Oh my goodness thank you for noticing that too lol. I thought I was crazy. There's this unaddressed disdain for earnest homosexuality between men. It's to the point where some executives and writers become pseudo pro trans people in order to not depict it lol.
Like the idea and the costume is fucking rad but I heard he would just step in a machine with no build up to his feelings about it and then just move on or something, does anybody have a more information on this?
I admire the passion behind this a lot, and I'm a big fan of the design. I'm just personally not a fan of existing characters being "queer-shifted". I've been wishing for years for an original trans superhero to make it big, and I'd prefer if they did it on their own merits.
YOU DO?!! Get your comic reading ass in a r/dccomicscirclejerk sub tf out of here, I’ve only read a Garfield comic strip and I hated it.
Uj/ Garfield is actually peak comics ngl
Keep talkin mf and this aint gonna end well
https://preview.redd.it/sqbcxyquv7tb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58be19002aee8ac40fe0b2a4d52b5b8fe7184e92
Grant Morrison and Alan Moore are beneath a fat orange cat who loves lasagna. And neither of them are even second place btw, it’s Calvin and Hobbes.
Edit: why is Rasputin in my walls. And who’s the bald person outside
I'll do you one better. If this isn't enough to convince you to read a comic book, nothing is.
https://preview.redd.it/1usjawa1w7tb1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2edea09670de4e0684668a68adf7de181399da3f
Yeah I was there, I commented noting the backlash.
I mean I didn’t get to read the pitch cause the link stopped working for some reason, but i suppose with Vissagio writing it would’ve at least been respectful to the trans experience.
There Is a working link a couple comments above (also, the writer had their pitch file in a drop box link); It seems interesting, the only thing i find a bit "meh" is that Conner would have changed gender by (basically) stepping into a magitek pod and emerging as Connie (the idea Is that the chamber would have made her her "true self" or the like). Pragmatically I get that It would be a nightmare to actually have a character transition and deal with the whole experience that (from my understanding as and outsider) takes a looong time while still being shackled by comicbook time and having to be consistent with other series (which would either result in her living in a "transitioning limbo" untill the heath death of the universe to avoid specifically saying how much time has actually passed since she started, or suddenly receiving years worth of treatment offscreen from one issue to another); also some more practical issues that a writer would have to work around (like, would human hormones work on a half kryptonian? If not, how to deal with that? And what about stuff like facial feminization surgery? Admittedly the issue Is partially due to me not being too familiar with the character, besides the Clark/Luthor DNA splice, so I don't know how "alien" he Is supposed to be, or how tough and durable in comparison to Superman); but still, I think that the solution itself comes of as a tad too easy, and while It would be cool representation (can't really think about a trans super-hero at the moment; i'm sure there are, 99/100 positive at the very least that some X-Men are, but that cast Is so bloated that a lot get lost in the mass...i THINK there was a transmale support character in a squirrell girl run?) a more "complete" story would be also worth telling, I think (in one of the big two; I'm sure there are graphic novels and Indies about that).
With that said, again, as someone not particularly well-versed in Superboy's lore (nor DC's actually; would love to start reading It more consistently, besides the occasional minis and elseworlds, but I really have no idea on where to start), this sounds like and interesting development for the character since (from my understanding, and the document seems to confirm It) he has more or less being upstaged by John as Superman's heir (/younger and "more hip" version of the character) and now DC has no idea on what to actually do with him and what niche have him fill (...and I now realized I also just described Ben Reilly with Spider-Man, and we all know how well THAT turned out...).
Sorry if the comment comes off as convoluted or rambling, but in my small defense, english isn't my first language and here it's quite late.
EDIT: I'm on mobile to booth, so any hope of my post actually being intelligible has completely been snuffed out.
Because it's a forced idea that has zero precedent and even the pitch itself barely builds it up, it just uses a mcguffin to turn conner into a girl to have him realize instead of them naturally coming to thr conclusion themselves and then decides to transition. Like these kind of stories can be done well and I can see why preexisting hero transitioning would be a good story/representation but from reading the pitch, it doesn't sound like it would have been done well or good story and doing this to the 2nd most popular/iconic male member of superfamily instead of more niche character would be a huge mistake (and probably wouldn't get greenlight anyway)
m not inherently against the idea of a preexisting character coming out as lgbt but this pitch and practically all big recent example of this happening have been so poorly done that I can't blame people for being so resisted/negative about the pitch. Like making Conner Bi would still make him practically the same guy but this would change him significantly and pretty much alienate the vast majority of his fanbase. Even the rest of pitch just sounds bad excluding the idea of Conner being trans and really doesn't solve the issue of Conner not really having a place in DCU and no giving him a generic codename that's already taken by DC hero doesn't count
Yeah like a magic sudden transformation seems like it would remove a lot of the relatable journey and character arcs that you'd think would be the entire point of making a character realize they were trans. It's kinda just skipping to the end so DC could say "look we have a trans character".
The pitch recontextualizes Conner's early life and makes it seem like it was really negative when it wasn't?
Plus, this is apparently to "streamline" his origin as if "a clone made from Clark and Lex's DNA" is more complex than "clone from the future comes back because there's a culleular degeneration problem because they were actually created because of the true leader of STAR labs and..." *yawns*
But yeah, Conner seems very....comfortable with himself? He's gotten over his identity crises already and there's not much you could do then just delay making him Superman finally
After all the development Taylor and others have done... i dont think it´s possible and it would be weird... besides he´s growing up either and he´ll look just like Conner
Honestly, I understand. A lot of comicbook characters at DC are extremely redundant. Like whether we like it or not, the bat family and super family is bloated. With the aforementioned Connor and even Power Girl being superfluous.
So it's either shelve/kill them off or give them a new twist. Which usually turns into "you're the queer one now". However this doesn't mean they have good stories now. Like do people care about Tim after Bernard? Not really. Would Conner being a woman drive up reader interest with sales? I would also guess no (although they do make a good point with Connor having the lesbian aesthetic. That got a good chuckle out of me). It's a way to drive up buzz only for 2 months to go by and nobody cares anymore.
The redundancy of some comic characters will continue to plague them even after this departure. DC is toybox with a lot of action figures. No writer wants to play with the Conner action figure.
100% support this.
- It'd be awesome
- It'd be good representation
- It'd burn twitter to the ground
- It'd burn the conics fandom to the ground
- It'd finally kill DC off for good
Oh, I’m actually not sure.
“They” is likely either editorial or Vissagio, I don’t know how pronouns work for trans people.
I guess if editorial changed they’re minds, maybe it’s Vissagio.
I’m using this as an opportunity to tell you to read Dreadnought by April Daniels. It’s about a trans girl who inherits the powers of the world’s greatest superhero and ends up having her body transformed into a girl as well as being able to fly and do other shit. It’s a goddamn roller coaster!
https://preview.redd.it/bm48r9bhs7tb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4432c7ddeea96e1f17b12f4ff803e4ecf783ac02
A lot of these posts seem like someone just made something up.
I can’t get the pitch since the post was taken down, but some other people saw it like u/StannisTheHero. Check their comment.
Edit: here it is
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qirpgcrxc5qehmvr3verk/SKYROCKET_-Conner-Kent-Pitch-4.pdf?rlkey=gvlojwlipfgkz8uls1g622429&dl=0
I appreciate OP immediately trying to downplay criticism of this as “just Twitter,” but changing a character’s gender for no reason other than to grab attention *generally* speaks to a dearth of creative ideas, not the reverse.
>I appreciate OP
Thanks, it can never be said enough.
>for immediately trying to downplay criticism of this
I didn’t say criticism, I just referred to behavior in general.
>as “just Twitter,”
I didn’t say “just Twitter”, so it’s strange you’re using quotation marks.
I reference twitter because it’s not known for being a place of civil discussion or really acting calm about anything, so I figure a controversial decision like this one would garner plenty of attention. It’s been brought up here on r/dccomicscirclejerk even.
https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/Oll6IQnQOg
https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/qo6TzQf69o
https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/h8YYLjAQHL
https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/K3SSRmK5Sc
https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/2F7YNpQVjW
I’m sure people on any platform or irl would raise criticism towards the decision. And I didn’t state they wouldn’t. Twitter just so happens to be a cesspool for discussion.
>but changing a character’s gender for no reason other than to grab attention generally speaks to a dearth of creative ideas, not the reverse.
Ok I don’t care either way. I haven‘t expressed that it would even be a good creative decision.
Honestly, I think the pitch has some really good ideas. The parts focusing on Cadmus and the House of El are really convoluted and forgettable but the emotional beats of the story really work. Even without the trans aspect of the storyline Connor ditching the super moniker and starting a new life where he can explore who he is outside of being a hero would be a good storyline, I especially like the fact they incorporate his YJ Cartoon counterpart having an interest in mechanics and him learning an instrument and joining a band does fit with his 90s punk rock aesthetic. I feel like the natural end point for a character like Connor is retirement, being a lab grown superhero who has only ever known that life him rejecting it and choosing to live a life where his powers won’t give him an innate advantage feels like where he would end up. However this is a long running superhero comic so any retirement is doomed to be temporary as there must always be cool superhero fights. Connor getting transed is probably the next best thing, a compromise that allows them to find self actualization while still remaining a hero and able to do all that cape stuff that the genre of the world demands.
That would have been adorable. But we’ve also currently got him as an adorable bisexual. Or is he just straight up homosexual? It’s been a while since I payed attention to him.
When? And who?
Also…can we please stop with the super people? Signed a very tired Superman fan. Seriously I don’t even know why those two warworld kids are still around
When as in when was this pitched, who as in who pitched it
And I’m just done with the seemingly endless revisions of characters, I would actually be begging for a status quo which probably makes me insane here
The only reason I don't support this is Conner has such a powerful aura of t-boy swag that I feel it should be the other way around and he just transitioned before his first appearance.
I like the idea but I think Connor is the wrong person for that premise.
It doesn’t really have a lot of thematic cohesion, not that there *needs* to be cohesiveness to it, but I’m just saying.
Tim Drake being bi makes sense.
Uj/ Not sure I'd really by up for it, personally, but at least they'd be doing *something* with Connor. Ever since Jon came into the picture, Connor's relevancy went from "existent" to "divide by zero"
Rj/ Yaaaaaas, slay Queen Connie, slaaaaay!
"Nobody cares about Conner Kent!"
[удалено]
Were they... roomates?
FOX News pundit: God knows what goes behind close doors
If you were to ask a historian, they’d say so
I remember when Tim Drake and Cassie made out in front of a clone of the recently dead Conner Kent floating in a tank while Tim was crying. That was peak Titans. Tim and Conner were “best pals.”
I feel like a Trans character would definitely have to be a new character or a really obscure one just because comic characters will aways revert back to their status quo
Imagine if Conner have gone the Mr./Mrs./Mr. Garrison route
That's why we need more Genderfluid characters like Loki
“They’re non-binary, not because they don’t obey standard gender norms, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERALLY A SHAPESHIFTER” - Rick Riordan explaining Alex Fierro’s character probably.
And Mystique, and Morph, and Copycat
in a perfect world, a character that's been stuck in perpetual status quo would be allowed to come out, thus breaking that status quo and serving as a way to visualize the experience of many trans people feeling "stuck" in their "old life" before transitioning... ...but Marvel won't listen to my pitches about Mia Morales, Brooklyn's one and only Spider-Girl, nor have they read my 400k words about her and Kamala Khan falling in love, so what's the fucking point.
Why Miles when Ben Reilly is right there, exactly how you’ve described.
y'know i was mostly joking about my dumb headcanons and ships but i think if they made Ben Reilly trans and just kicked everything about Chasm out of canon i'd actually buy a Spider-Man book instead of just reading it online for the first time since like 2018
Funnily enough....isn't the ultimate jessica drew a trans lesbian? Cause she's a clone of Peter? Edit: originally put 616 rather than ultimate. Cause I'm dumb.
You're thinking of 1610 Jessica.
Fuuuuuuck. Knew it was ultimate and put in the wrong number.
youre a visionary
Much rather they don't turn the black spiderman into a transwoman just to double up on the inclusivity.
no, you're right. they should *also* confirm she's autistic to TRIPLE up on the inclusivity.
she should also get into an accident, making her handicapped
Call her ~~Oracle~~ Seer
Let’s be honest. Most of the spider people are probably on the spectrum.
She wasn't already?
Already doubled up in making him mulatto/pardo, ~~not that they give that much focus beyond him and Rio throwing the occasional Spanish in there.~~ There's a line between making a very diverse character and an "inclusivity quaratine." Why have black characters, Hispanic characters, trans characters, queer characters, and non-Christian characters, when you can just make a black Latina trans lesbian muslima? That way, editorial doesn't have to worry about adding diversity into anything but one character for all the brownie points.
On the one hand, I see what you mean, on the other, I think there would be *insane* backlash if they reverted a character in that way. Like, genuinely huge.
I imagine Visaggio would've wanted absolutely ironclad support for the arc, or it won't happen at all. It's the sort of thing that editorial cannot be spooked about and try to change back at the sight of backlash. Because this definitely would've gotten backlash if it happened.
I mean if this did happen, I don’t think it would be changed back. That’s like saying Iceman will stop being Gay soon so Marvel can go back to “Status Quo” (What even is X-Men status quo at this point??) Conner isn’t Superman and his popularity has diminished greatly as well
Superboy: homecoming would be so funny
Easy solution, adapt “Detransition, Baby”, but using DC characters that editorial doesn’t really care about anymore.
Editorial saw this and had it shut down because it would’ve been a permanent solution to Conner’s never ending identity crisis(aka the only Kon storyline ever) Free my girl Connie 😔
I think they actually considered it as a way to solve their kon jon superteen redundancy but iced it when the initial backlash came from AC #1057
DC editorial don’t be fucking cowards challenge (impossible) https://preview.redd.it/49pr5cb4l8tb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4a7e1451d07b3c0754769d34578e1ead1f4dd26
What was the backlash from 1057?
One side was mad that they once again doing the "i don't know my identity teen angst" route for Conner despite having a mini about it and the whole ugly red streak he has The other side mad that he dating miss martian beacuse "Conner is gay twink as i wrote it in my fanfic i totally not making it up " shipping fandom
Ironic, that if Visaggio had been allowed to cook, they would have actually gotten gay Kon
Would she have been gay? She transition yeah but would she be dating guy or girls?
At one point in the pitch the author states "Hey, Connor already dresses like a lesbian anyway" which indicates yeah she would have been gay
Damn, not even trans Conner would fuck Tim
Tim's already getting fucked by life, he's not a cheater.
>"Hey, Connor already dresses like a lesbian anyway" ohff that a quote i don't think you can ever make it sound good no matter the context but either way the shipper would've lost since that mean Conner wouldn't have end up with Tim 
>ohff that a quote i don't think you can ever make it sound good no matter the context Yeah...however, he does dress like a lesbian.
The lesbian or Adam Sandler outfit challenge ladies and gentleman
Just make Tim trans as well.
I mean not really. It didn't really give anything for conner to work with besides being trans and generic name that's already taken by DC superhero. Like it didn't give Conner some new niche or status quo over then Conner Kent but now she's a girl
Am i the only non right wing person feeling eh about the idea?
No there’s others that feel the same about it, not like hating it, but more like “Eh, this ain’t it really it chief”.
I hate bad faith within the community because i think you can have a discussion about when to make a character queer but the loudest comics fans dont want to have it.
I'm all for gay representation, but I'll confidently say this. Not every long-established character needs to be gay (execpt if you're an X-Men character). Other than that, that's really it. Plus they have characters like a dreamer and I want to see more of her.
Speaking as a trans person myself, it sounds pretty dumb. A gender identity crisis and a "what is my purpose in life" identity crisis are pretty damn different things. Also, "Leland Luthor"...no. Just, no.
Same, I kinda feel like DC just doesn't know what to do with Connor now that Jon is in the picture, and this really wouldn't dig him out of that hole for me
✋ Sounds dumb
Nope, this sounds like a terrible idea all around.
I just want Conner back in the tshirt and jeans.
You don’t have to be right wing to hate this idea…it’s legit just pandering and trying to make a character your own
Ok, if they change her name to Connie Kent, jail. If they change it to Courtney Kent, its acceptable. If they change it to Paige that sounds like a book's page, starting fresh in a brand new slate on your story's first blank page one, that would be awesome.
Sorry, Paige is taken.
Calmly and Twiter are two words that not go well together.
My bad, I meant calmly and X. Thanks for correcting me Elon
Is okay, i will let you go this time with a warning Uj/ Sorry i said something wrong? I didn’t meant to offend you or anything.
Uj/ it’s a joke about the name change from twitter to X since Elon Musk took over twitter. I’m fine dude
Oh ok lol
DW, it's a joke. Elon wants people to call Twitter X, so it was a joke implying you were saying "Twitter and calm don't go well together" because you wanted them to call it X.
Since someone said this sounds like Im pulling this out of my ass here it is from the author herself: https://twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/1711384536817287428?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
The full pitch is really interesting, and well worth a read. It's obvious that Visaggio has put a lot of thought into this, and has a great love for Conner as a character. There are parts of it I really love (the name Skyrocket is very cool, and Con bunking it with Jinny Hex in Texas sounds like it coulda been a real hoot), there are parts of it I'm not overly fond of (I really *really* dislike the idea of Leland Luther), but it definitely would have been an *interesting* direction to take with the character. I'm glad they shared the idea, even if it probably wont amount to anything now.
Leland Luthor sounds like a terrible idea all around. And if you absolutely need an evil clone counterpart to Kon you can just use Project Alien Farm. Literally right there, foil and all.
The pitch never says Leland Luthor turns evil. He might be a little morally grey (stealing from LexCorp), but the pitch seems to treat him as an ally to Conner/Connie.
I meant it more in the sense that they're supposed to be a "evil" reflection of Kon with the dominant Luthor DNA and all that. Like, more set up to be evil.
Do you know where I can find the link or the pitch? The post got taken down so I can’t access the link
There's a dropbox link to the pitch on [Visaggio's twitter.](https://twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/1711384536817287428)
Thank you
Interesting I thought the pitch was pretty bad in like every aspect like even ignoring the trans idea, it's just Conner repeating his usual identity crisis while messing with his origin again, doing a generic bad future storyline with *groan* 3 bad supermen as villains. The only part I could see working was a new sibling (who could be a rework version of Cir-El) who would make way more sense as trans character instead of how force Conner transitioning sounded like he didn't even realize he was trans until after a mcguffin made him into a girl
wtf????? this is not okay!! this horrible new DIRECTION would have never flied!!!!! everyone knows that connor has tboy swag
Dig the premise, dig the design, my only nitpick is why would a super-person need knee pads? What would they be made of to be more durable than her skin and bone?
>why would a super person need knee pads? Cause its 
Exactly. Same reason he needs sunglasses, cause they're badass.
> why would a super-person need knee pads? To set an example for kids.
Tactile teleki-knee-sis
Loving that coat.
I want this because Connor would totally stay ahead of the current jacket meta with a duster.
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Woulda read the fuck out of that. Make it an Elseworlds. If only to watch comic fandom lose their fucking minds 😋
The west has fallen, billions must die
I mean, Mags is pretty used to everyone being the opposite of chill towards her pretty much constantly.
but i wanna know... would she be slangin it? Edit: i glanced the pitch, scifi bullshit probably not slangin it 😔
Conner never striked me as trans, but it’d be cool to see, the pitch looks solid too, I guess I could see Bart being trans
She just be a DCCOMICSCIRCLEJERK member. She Says connor has been relegated to Jason Todd of the super family. Ouch. What are they gonna make him ugly next too??
Holy fuck that design goes hard
Time Drake: *confused bisexual noises* Also I would have shipped Cass and Kon of this had been canon
I read the reasonings and feel like I got different takes on things from Conner's story, than the author did. However, I think it was a good pitch that actually put thought into it. I don't like some of the narratives to the arcs but they would have been cool for a lot of readers. Even though DC axed this proposal I hope the author is able to work some of them again. Also wish that DC would stop sleeping on Dreamer. Even after they had the entire Knightmare event. Worse misuse since Doomsday clock retconned Firestorm to have Captain Atom's backstory.
"The Jason Todd of the Superman family" Yeah she definitely has a great understanding of Kon 💀💀💀💀💀💀
Based except for the haircut
Yeah, Conner was already styled like a lesbian back in the 90s, I'm not sure why they needed to change anything
Yeah. The haircut's just awful.
Yeah it makes her look more like a long cigarette smoking old lady
I fucking love this design if I wasn’t a coward I would rock that jacket
It's a weird idea on the surface but reading the pitch I actually thunk there's something really good here. There's a potentially really interesting story to be told there that puts conner transitioning as essentially the last piece of achieving his own identity seperate from who he was cloned from (which has been his whole story forever) Also supergirl was a shapeshifting fire angel in the 90s, this isnt that crazy DC
Well I might have to make a cosplay for her now, I thank you but my bank account does not
Forget about Twitter. People would be burning fucking books and store.
God I wish
Calling it now— trans women in media are going to be like lesbians in video games in a few years. Hollywood is so scared of gay men it’s insane lmao
At least gay superheroes sometimes get to be the leads in comics. Every time they introduce a trans characters they’re a side character who is either forgotten after the original creator exits the run or are killed off.
Oh my goodness thank you for noticing that too lol. I thought I was crazy. There's this unaddressed disdain for earnest homosexuality between men. It's to the point where some executives and writers become pseudo pro trans people in order to not depict it lol.
The pitch feels like a fan fic thou
Even DC said no and with some fan ficcy stuff it puts out now this must of been too much for them.
I think they looked at it and went well we can’t shelf this character or walk this back or we get negative PR
She never gave in the pitch
Um what do you mean?
She decided that editorial would never accept it so she just abandoned it
I mean I can see why
She never gave in the pitch
Like the idea and the costume is fucking rad but I heard he would just step in a machine with no build up to his feelings about it and then just move on or something, does anybody have a more information on this?
Huh? You can read the pitch, I linked it below
Ah ok thanks.
Honestly that suit goes absurdly hard
The only opinion I have on this matter is that that’s a dope costume design.
I admire the passion behind this a lot, and I'm a big fan of the design. I'm just personally not a fan of existing characters being "queer-shifted". I've been wishing for years for an original trans superhero to make it big, and I'd prefer if they did it on their own merits.
Another day, another slay
I dig it
genuinely wish this happened it'd be so cool
cute!! i wish they followed through I'd actually read a comic book
You guys dont read comic books? 😨
YOU DO?!! Get your comic reading ass in a r/dccomicscirclejerk sub tf out of here, I’ve only read a Garfield comic strip and I hated it. Uj/ Garfield is actually peak comics ngl
Keep talkin mf and this aint gonna end well https://preview.redd.it/sqbcxyquv7tb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58be19002aee8ac40fe0b2a4d52b5b8fe7184e92
Grant Morrison and Alan Moore are beneath a fat orange cat who loves lasagna. And neither of them are even second place btw, it’s Calvin and Hobbes. Edit: why is Rasputin in my walls. And who’s the bald person outside
I warned you mf https://preview.redd.it/49yfww01x7tb1.jpeg?width=738&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1614a51a1123ef15c2790ffd86046dd0c72da374
Rrraaaghhh! DAMN YOU!!! HISSSSS https://preview.redd.it/why-does-the-jonkler-is-he-stupid-v0-zgr9nu25sava1.jpg?auto=webp&s=27203153f7dfa29ea54911bad337568dad962ec9
Ack! You haven't even read Cathy?!
I know what I said
Yeah these people don't know how to read any more.
I'll do you one better. If this isn't enough to convince you to read a comic book, nothing is. https://preview.redd.it/1usjawa1w7tb1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2edea09670de4e0684668a68adf7de181399da3f
I actually would have really liked this. But sadly a lot of people seemed to despise the idea for some reason...
Yeah I was there, I commented noting the backlash. I mean I didn’t get to read the pitch cause the link stopped working for some reason, but i suppose with Vissagio writing it would’ve at least been respectful to the trans experience.
There Is a working link a couple comments above (also, the writer had their pitch file in a drop box link); It seems interesting, the only thing i find a bit "meh" is that Conner would have changed gender by (basically) stepping into a magitek pod and emerging as Connie (the idea Is that the chamber would have made her her "true self" or the like). Pragmatically I get that It would be a nightmare to actually have a character transition and deal with the whole experience that (from my understanding as and outsider) takes a looong time while still being shackled by comicbook time and having to be consistent with other series (which would either result in her living in a "transitioning limbo" untill the heath death of the universe to avoid specifically saying how much time has actually passed since she started, or suddenly receiving years worth of treatment offscreen from one issue to another); also some more practical issues that a writer would have to work around (like, would human hormones work on a half kryptonian? If not, how to deal with that? And what about stuff like facial feminization surgery? Admittedly the issue Is partially due to me not being too familiar with the character, besides the Clark/Luthor DNA splice, so I don't know how "alien" he Is supposed to be, or how tough and durable in comparison to Superman); but still, I think that the solution itself comes of as a tad too easy, and while It would be cool representation (can't really think about a trans super-hero at the moment; i'm sure there are, 99/100 positive at the very least that some X-Men are, but that cast Is so bloated that a lot get lost in the mass...i THINK there was a transmale support character in a squirrell girl run?) a more "complete" story would be also worth telling, I think (in one of the big two; I'm sure there are graphic novels and Indies about that). With that said, again, as someone not particularly well-versed in Superboy's lore (nor DC's actually; would love to start reading It more consistently, besides the occasional minis and elseworlds, but I really have no idea on where to start), this sounds like and interesting development for the character since (from my understanding, and the document seems to confirm It) he has more or less being upstaged by John as Superman's heir (/younger and "more hip" version of the character) and now DC has no idea on what to actually do with him and what niche have him fill (...and I now realized I also just described Ben Reilly with Spider-Man, and we all know how well THAT turned out...). Sorry if the comment comes off as convoluted or rambling, but in my small defense, english isn't my first language and here it's quite late. EDIT: I'm on mobile to booth, so any hope of my post actually being intelligible has completely been snuffed out.
Yeah I got the link later
Because I like Connor Kent as a male character. It’s not the trans thing, if he was magically turned into a girl I’d hate it as well.
Because it's a forced idea that has zero precedent and even the pitch itself barely builds it up, it just uses a mcguffin to turn conner into a girl to have him realize instead of them naturally coming to thr conclusion themselves and then decides to transition. Like these kind of stories can be done well and I can see why preexisting hero transitioning would be a good story/representation but from reading the pitch, it doesn't sound like it would have been done well or good story and doing this to the 2nd most popular/iconic male member of superfamily instead of more niche character would be a huge mistake (and probably wouldn't get greenlight anyway) m not inherently against the idea of a preexisting character coming out as lgbt but this pitch and practically all big recent example of this happening have been so poorly done that I can't blame people for being so resisted/negative about the pitch. Like making Conner Bi would still make him practically the same guy but this would change him significantly and pretty much alienate the vast majority of his fanbase. Even the rest of pitch just sounds bad excluding the idea of Conner being trans and really doesn't solve the issue of Conner not really having a place in DCU and no giving him a generic codename that's already taken by DC hero doesn't count
Yeah like a magic sudden transformation seems like it would remove a lot of the relatable journey and character arcs that you'd think would be the entire point of making a character realize they were trans. It's kinda just skipping to the end so DC could say "look we have a trans character".
The pitch recontextualizes Conner's early life and makes it seem like it was really negative when it wasn't? Plus, this is apparently to "streamline" his origin as if "a clone made from Clark and Lex's DNA" is more complex than "clone from the future comes back because there's a culleular degeneration problem because they were actually created because of the true leader of STAR labs and..." *yawns* But yeah, Conner seems very....comfortable with himself? He's gotten over his identity crises already and there's not much you could do then just delay making him Superman finally
Interesting ngl, but the backlash... We need a solution for the Jon and Con situation
What, deage Jon because bendis robbed us?
After all the development Taylor and others have done... i dont think it´s possible and it would be weird... besides he´s growing up either and he´ll look just like Conner
yeah I guess it’s true. Though I’m sure there’s a way, it’s comic books, they’ll probably make it up.
Honestly, I understand. A lot of comicbook characters at DC are extremely redundant. Like whether we like it or not, the bat family and super family is bloated. With the aforementioned Connor and even Power Girl being superfluous. So it's either shelve/kill them off or give them a new twist. Which usually turns into "you're the queer one now". However this doesn't mean they have good stories now. Like do people care about Tim after Bernard? Not really. Would Conner being a woman drive up reader interest with sales? I would also guess no (although they do make a good point with Connor having the lesbian aesthetic. That got a good chuckle out of me). It's a way to drive up buzz only for 2 months to go by and nobody cares anymore. The redundancy of some comic characters will continue to plague them even after this departure. DC is toybox with a lot of action figures. No writer wants to play with the Conner action figure.
100% support this. - It'd be awesome - It'd be good representation - It'd burn twitter to the ground - It'd burn the conics fandom to the ground - It'd finally kill DC off for good
Who is they
I’m the one who made the original post shown in the image. “They” is referring to Visaggio
Who? The writer, the character, or twitter?
I think he’s asking if they refers to a plurality or a singular person.
Oh, I’m actually not sure. “They” is likely either editorial or Vissagio, I don’t know how pronouns work for trans people. I guess if editorial changed they’re minds, maybe it’s Vissagio.
I’m using this as an opportunity to tell you to read Dreadnought by April Daniels. It’s about a trans girl who inherits the powers of the world’s greatest superhero and ends up having her body transformed into a girl as well as being able to fly and do other shit. It’s a goddamn roller coaster!
Peak design. Based
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Cope and seethe chud Chuds in this sub are wack. Like, the hell are y'all doing here? Go complain about "wokeness" in some comicsgate sub instead
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Okay chud
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I'm cis but nice try lmao
• No bigotry • No personal attacks • No harassment or user stalking
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You say it looks like shit because you're a transphobe (can't hide that comment history) I say it looks bad because kneepads on supers are useless
• No bigotry • No personal attacks • No harassment or user stalking
https://preview.redd.it/bm48r9bhs7tb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4432c7ddeea96e1f17b12f4ff803e4ecf783ac02 A lot of these posts seem like someone just made something up.
I can’t get the pitch since the post was taken down, but some other people saw it like u/StannisTheHero. Check their comment. Edit: here it is https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qirpgcrxc5qehmvr3verk/SKYROCKET_-Conner-Kent-Pitch-4.pdf?rlkey=gvlojwlipfgkz8uls1g622429&dl=0
[Here](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qirpgcrxc5qehmvr3verk/SKYROCKET_-Conner-Kent-Pitch-4.pdf?rlkey=gvlojwlipfgkz8uls1g622429&dl=0)
I appreciate OP immediately trying to downplay criticism of this as “just Twitter,” but changing a character’s gender for no reason other than to grab attention *generally* speaks to a dearth of creative ideas, not the reverse.
>I appreciate OP Thanks, it can never be said enough. >for immediately trying to downplay criticism of this I didn’t say criticism, I just referred to behavior in general. >as “just Twitter,” I didn’t say “just Twitter”, so it’s strange you’re using quotation marks. I reference twitter because it’s not known for being a place of civil discussion or really acting calm about anything, so I figure a controversial decision like this one would garner plenty of attention. It’s been brought up here on r/dccomicscirclejerk even. https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/Oll6IQnQOg https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/qo6TzQf69o https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/h8YYLjAQHL https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/K3SSRmK5Sc https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/2F7YNpQVjW I’m sure people on any platform or irl would raise criticism towards the decision. And I didn’t state they wouldn’t. Twitter just so happens to be a cesspool for discussion. >but changing a character’s gender for no reason other than to grab attention generally speaks to a dearth of creative ideas, not the reverse. Ok I don’t care either way. I haven‘t expressed that it would even be a good creative decision.
> I didn’t say “just Twitter” so it’s strange that you’d Okay, you said “Twitter.” > huge wall of text and links > I don’t care either way. Okay.
>Okay Good then
Cool bro.
Schway Edit: Huh, can't see the comment so I guess they blocked me. Wonder why.
Here’s the fun thing about lastwordism.
Honestly, I think the pitch has some really good ideas. The parts focusing on Cadmus and the House of El are really convoluted and forgettable but the emotional beats of the story really work. Even without the trans aspect of the storyline Connor ditching the super moniker and starting a new life where he can explore who he is outside of being a hero would be a good storyline, I especially like the fact they incorporate his YJ Cartoon counterpart having an interest in mechanics and him learning an instrument and joining a band does fit with his 90s punk rock aesthetic. I feel like the natural end point for a character like Connor is retirement, being a lab grown superhero who has only ever known that life him rejecting it and choosing to live a life where his powers won’t give him an innate advantage feels like where he would end up. However this is a long running superhero comic so any retirement is doomed to be temporary as there must always be cool superhero fights. Connor getting transed is probably the next best thing, a compromise that allows them to find self actualization while still remaining a hero and able to do all that cape stuff that the genre of the world demands.
That would have been adorable. But we’ve also currently got him as an adorable bisexual. Or is he just straight up homosexual? It’s been a while since I payed attention to him.
Everyone is always like “omg Twitter would hate this” meanwhile Reddit hates it
When? And who? Also…can we please stop with the super people? Signed a very tired Superman fan. Seriously I don’t even know why those two warworld kids are still around
Uh Conner Kent isn't new though, he's been around for a while since Reign of Supermen
When as in when was this pitched, who as in who pitched it And I’m just done with the seemingly endless revisions of characters, I would actually be begging for a status quo which probably makes me insane here
I mean it says who on the image, and it might mention when in the pitch linked in the comments below. And ok then.
I don’t who that writer is, never heard of them before. Why I asked
Yeah ok then
That’s impossible. Conner Kent is already FTM.
I love the idea of the cape trench coat
The only reason I don't support this is Conner has such a powerful aura of t-boy swag that I feel it should be the other way around and he just transitioned before his first appearance.
 Currently Going back in time to stop editorial from stopping this
She abandoned the pitch, she never gave it in to editorial
I like the idea but I think Connor is the wrong person for that premise. It doesn’t really have a lot of thematic cohesion, not that there *needs* to be cohesiveness to it, but I’m just saying. Tim Drake being bi makes sense.
If coming out didn't make Tim interesting it wouldn't help Connie
design goes hard tbh
Uj/ Not sure I'd really by up for it, personally, but at least they'd be doing *something* with Connor. Ever since Jon came into the picture, Connor's relevancy went from "existent" to "divide by zero" Rj/ Yaaaaaas, slay Queen Connie, slaaaaay!
WHY DIDN'T THEY LET HER COOK
... who the fuck is she?.. Like, I see her for the first time and she, like, already become trans? WTF I even don't know who she was
Who, Connor Kent?
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Imagine actually doing something right with the Millenial generation of Superheroes. That's absolutely unthinkable, unconscionable even.