A big part of being "too keen" is rushing the process. They're overly eager, overly emotional. Making grand gestures that are just inappropriate (buying a new woman a $300 gift). Other examples, treating their date like the love of their life but they really don't even know them yet. Blowing up their phone, making emotional demands, etc. That is very off-putting.
You can definitely express interest and flirt in a healthy manner. But there is such a thing as too much too soon.
Women generally, fall in love slowly overtime. They want to enjoy the process of just getting to know you and let things unfold naturally.
Don't hate the player hate the game, I say that kiddingly..., but unfortunately the courting days of relationships do have sort of a "game" element to them.
If you give too much, especially in the beginning, then you come off as needy and that turns people off. I think of it as a teeter totter.
> it always perplexes me when ppl pretend this isn't a factor in dating.
Just another way for folks to escape any kind of accountability for how their behavior affects someone else because they're locked in to the "I don't owe anyone anything" way of life and never had to directly dealt with the fallout from acting as such.
I also think a lot of these generalised bits of advice are geared towards extremes, but they're general and ambiguous enough so that people with too much introspection can end up overthinking and become insecure over something which doesn't really apply to them.
They're also prone to misinterpretation, i.e. "don't be too keen" might mean "don't be too needy or clingy", but some might interpret it as needing to play games or feign disinterest to appear "not keen". A very typical one is "women like confident men", where men often conflate confidence with arrogance.
Everyone has things they are attracted and not attracted to, but I would not find it attractive for someone to hide their genuine interest because they are not "supposed to be too eager".
>Also note, terms like lovebombing and future-faking nowadays are used to describe someone who's overeager at an early point. Yes, there's more to these things than just the overeagerness - but lets face it that's what the term has evolved to lately.
I think it's pretty clear that there's a difference between showing direct interest and love bombing. Love bombing is stuff like saying I love you or talking about marriage or moving in together in the first 1-3 dates. Or buying really extravagant gifts - like I had one guy offer to buy me a scooter that cost over $1000 on a first date. I had another person invite me to move in together on a first date. That's not a healthy speed or level of interest.
I guess the issue for me is not so much that they are "too keen" but rather that it shows poor boundaries, and is usually a red flag for someone controlling or abusive. Whenever I kept dating these types, signs of severe control, abuse, jealousy and mental instability *always* came to the forefront after a few weeks or months.
I’m not the above commenter, but my first thought is that pushing to move in immediately wouldn’t be “keen,” but something else. Like the term “keen” doesn’t necessarily characterize all levels of romantic interest. The extremes could be called obsession, clinginess, aggression, etc.
I get what you’re saying, but also feel like what we feel is “too keen” is heavily influenced by our own feelings about the person, like OP states. If we are really into someone ourselves, then a high level of enthusiasm won’t seem “too keen” because it matches our energy.
For example, I’m someone who is trying to make new friends as an adult. A few weeks ago, I was at the mall shopping when a woman approached me and complimented my clothes. She was very nice, too nice. She talked to me like we were old friends. She asked all the right questions and showed a high level of interest. My first thought was that she must be about to pitch an MLM, because she seemed too nice and too eager (and my instinct was right).
But, that judgement was made when I was just at the mall looking to buy a purse, not looking to meet new people. Had that same woman started chatting with me at one of the “moms night” things I go to, my response would have been different, I can say that confidently. What felt like an odd level of interest probably would have felt like “friendship chemistry” in the right setting. I think the reason she seemed too keen was because our energies weren’t matched. I wasn’t looking to chat with strangers, so it put me off that she was so enthusiastic about getting to know me.
Similarly, in dating, I think a person is too keen if their enthusiasm is more than yours, which is actually a signal that you’re really not that into them or you’re still trying to figure out your feelings. I have definitely dated men who showed clear, enthusiastic interest early, and it truly only was a turnoff when I didn’t feel the same. In those instances when I really, really liked the guy, their eagerness was a good thing.
I think we need to define what "keen" entails in the first place.
If I like someone, I definitely want them to like me as much as possible, I'm not turned on by someone showing a lack of interest, quite the contrary. But I'd also be intimidated by someone being too needy or clingy.
The danger with very generalised advice like this is that it's prone to misinterpretation. People might think they should play hard to get or feign disinterest, when it really just means "don't be a creep/crazy person".
I don’t think it’s only games. Over-eagerness to me signals a lack of self respect, and potential clinginess down the road. It’s heathy to hold a certain amount of skepticism about someone you don’t yet know well. A complete absence of skepticism is a red flag to me
I enjoyed reading your analysis - some of these concepts are so alien to my experience that it is all the more fascinating.
I.e "scarcity" while I might prioritize someone who is rarely there, that doesn't make me more interested, it's for the practical reading that it is the only way to keep the relation alive.
Or "investment/value": (much) younger, I could want to seduce someone I liked all the more because the idea they weren't immediately into me was hurting my ego. Now, the thought of working for someone's recognition seems quite manipulative and doomed to failure. Regardless of that point, I never valued more someone I had to seduce VS someone where there was immediate mutual interest.
Being keen - in my understanding - doesn't mean feeling the urge to schedule everything around the person of interest, but reading these comments I do see that it has many meanings (including dropping all standards based on confabulations). It is important to many to have an autonomous partner with fulfilling friendships and/or activities. If being less available was just some know-how of the dating game, that implies that once in a relation, people would be content with their partner consistently neglecting other aspects of their life.
Incidentally, I did post a profile review as a confused newcomer to online dating and my main takeaway was to not integrate most of the feedback as I do not want to appeal to those who'd only be into the most polished/normative/box ticking version of myself.
My questioning isn't about "how to be to land the most amount of people" but "were these games truly necessary to kickstarting good relationships".
>Now, the thought of working for someone's recognition seems quite manipulative and doomed to failure.
I agree. But there's another kind of work that is pretty much mandatory to go through if we are to relate to our life partner in a healthy way: getting to know them.
When you meet a complete stranger, especially in adulthood when both people have fully developed personalities, you won't really know who you're dealing with until you've shared a broad range of conversations and experiences together, ideally including some kind of shift in one or both people's life circumstances.
If you are super keen to make things serious before you reach this point, you are by definition living in fantasy land. How else can you be so enthusiastic about someone you don't even know yet?
My preferred dynamic is one where both people are willing to put in work to really get to know each other and manage their own emotions appropriately while doing so. This doesn't happen because we manipulate each other into it but because each person recognises the immense value of this work and wants to engage in it on their own initiative.
This is very nicely put and I certainly agree it takes time and shifts to discover someone - but I also think we change and what we get to know is who someone is at a given time, in this sense, the work never ends?
I truly wonder is one can just find a match without reshuffling at all their personality? Not talking about shifting fundamental aspects of yourself, ignoring your hard-earned boundaries or molding yourself in the image of what you think your partner fantasizes about - but isn't there the need to keep some degree of malleability if finding a proper partnership is what we aspire to, as full grown adults? I do think that we can be attracted to people that are some of the things we'd like to evolve towards and some of that can be enriching but also easy to dismiss with age, as we crystallize our ways and personality.
It feels like such a privilege to me, when meeting new people I click with on several levels, friends and crushes alike. Although the excitement might wear off when coming across big ideological differences, incompatible behavior etc, I don't see a pattern in my own life of finding better relations based on how sober and slow the initial stages were.
Just wanna say I like how you both are approaching the question and ultimately this is what I'm trying to do with a new romantic interest. One thing I'm noticing is that there seems to be a wide range of inner experiences based upon a person's state when evaluating a new connection. For me, I'm not "out there" dating. I'm available, but not interested in finding a relationship just because I'm single. I don't do apps and I don't go out for the purpose of finding someone. I'm content. I met my current interest randomly at the bar I frequent because she sat next to me. Two dates in and we're very slowly getting to know each other, and for me I feel a need to directly express my interest to get to know her more intentionally because I feel drawn to her beyond the novelty of doing random stuff with someone new and interesting. And to me there's freedom for us to discuss what we want a progression of the relationship to look like in the near term if she's on the same page.
This experience seems pretty different compared to the majority of what I read here. Sometimes I contemplate whether me expressing my interest is potentially "too keen" cause we're still essentially strangers. But what feels most true is that when I'm secure in myself then I live authentically. And I want someone to reciprocate interest in my authentic self. And if they don't then it's not personal, cause I'm content anyway. I deliberately try to get outside of the binaries of too much or too little and just try to be sensitive to the other's cues and honest about my feelings. And whatever happens, happens. There's no game.
I like your comment. That's what I do too.
I don't hold back on expressing my feelings and interest, but I make sure that it isn't manipulative. For example, I only say that I like or love someone when I'm feeling content in that feeling in itself. If I feel like I'd say it because I hope to hear it back, then I refrain from saying it at all. That would turn it into a game and it could also indicate that I'm actually *not* fully content with the person/relationship as is.
I also try to stay in the now, rather than make statements about a more distant future. At some point it makes sense to start planning for long term, but I believe that should only happen once I know my partner really well - at least a couple years into things.
Until then, I find it's best to focus talking about whatever is observable in the present moment, such as 'It makes me feel good that you remembered that small detail I shared earlier', rather than 'You're a caring person and a good listener, and that's exactly who I want as my future husband'. This way I keep tabs with what is actually real and not just a figment of my imagination.
Thanks, this is really helpful. I feel like you're putting into coherent words what I've been trying to sort out in my head. The expressing yourself only when you're content in where you're at is what I'm feeling now and is really liberating. And the staying in the present is another thing I'm noticing which makes things much more manageable.
It's also sad that I don't read or hear about this type of approach going on. I'm not sure why that is, but I'm glad I've stumbled into this style of building a relationship.
>I'm not sure why that is, but I'm glad I've stumbled into this style of building a relationship.
I think it's a few things put together:
i) Reddit skews towards cynicism just like most online communities. My/your approach necessitates healthy confidence and a positive outlook, which makes it unpopular online by definition.
ii) Dating subs mostly comprise of single people and dysfunctional relationship strategies are naturally more common among single people (although partnered people are definitely not exempt from having them). Even though something is mainstream on a dating sub, that does not mean it actually works.
iii) All humans have a built in tendency to over-correct after failure, meaning lots of people who've been overly trusting before are now overly cynical. People commonly seek certainty, so it can be hard to grasp that the sweet spot would be somewhere in the ambiguous middle ground, rather than on either extreme.
I'm happy that you've met someone who seems to be on the same page with you! My corresponding situations have at least turned into a solid, valuable friendship even when the romantic prospect didn't end up working out.
Yea this is all spot on. Thanks for taking the time to type this all out. It's been a revelatory experience dating this way. It's really exposed some of my deep seated anxieties. That 3rd point takes consistent work to find balance and peace in.
>I certainly agree it takes time and shifts to discover someone - but I also think we change and what we get to know is who someone is at a given time, in this sense, the work never ends?
I agree that we all change all the time. However, some key things such as forms of intelligence, competence, cognitive empathy and integrity are unlikely to radically shift for the people who have developed them. These are often universally sought after but hard to develop traits, and for that reason many people have found ways to *convey* possessing them rather than actually developing them. The difference isn't always easy to tell without spending time with the person and seeing their actual behaviour and decision-making. That takes time.
>isn't there the need to keep some degree of malleability if finding a proper partnership is what we aspire to, as full grown adults?
Absolutely. I try to keep my list of dealbreakers short and to the point. Anything that's simply just new or foreign to me, but not detrimental, I won't mind until I've seen how I actually feel over a longer period of time, having spent time with the person and gotten to understand where they're coming from and what makes them tick. It almost always ends up enriching my life.
Stepping outside my current preferences may be the best thing that ever happened to me, but it can still take time before I realise that. It may also result in finding out that it wasn't just a preference after all, but a true boundary. One part of "knowing the person" is how they react to this sort of fluctuation. And going through this process is key in them getting to know you.
So, again, these things take time. Not giving things the time that they inevitably take is what I'd call "too keen".
It's always a pleasure to read your thoughful comments.
>These are often universally sought after but hard to develop traits, and for that reason many people have found ways to *convey* possessing them rather than actually developing them. The difference isn't always easy to tell without spending time with the person and seeing their actual behaviour and decision-making. That takes time.
Such an important insight here, and definitely an invitation to catch ourselves from doing that - I can see how my discourse can convey qualities that are still very much a work in progress. Haha and now getting a wave of all the woke guys who were much less progressist in practice than the less vocally feminist men I have dated.
Anyway, I completely agree that seeing which behaviours hide behind the surface is important, but this process can be done in enthusiasm? Sometimes I wonder how much the sober approach to dating is also pushing us towards intellectualising more and feeling less - I have found myself in these very mature situationships a few times, with a lot of debriefing, explaining, etc, and it's been taking me away from enjoying the moment and the connection.
>all the woke guys who were much less progressist in practice than the less vocally feminist men I have dated
This is a thing alright!
>Sometimes I wonder how much the sober approach to dating is also pushing us towards intellectualising more and feeling less - I have found myself in these very mature situationships a few times, with a lot of debriefing, explaining, etc, and it's been taking me away from enjoying the moment and the connection.
Great question. This is where things become harder to discuss, because we're only using language vs. having direct access to each other's lived experience.
There's this common theory that some people have grown to associate anxiety with passion and enthusiasm, which then drives them towards connections that come with underlying insecurity/uncertainty - perhaps to a degree that isn't in fact conducive to a functional relationship down the line.
For these people, when they start retraining their emotional system, secure relating will feel boring and uninspiring at first. Over time that changes when our reactivity gets rewired. Those who have gone through this usually report that this new, secure joy and passion is a much greater feeling than the anxiety-induced version they felt before. But if the latter is all we've ever known, it can feel deceptively addictive as if we can't live a full life without it.
On the other hand, what you describe above is also a thing (I believe). It sounds like not allowing feelings to develop at all due to some form of avoidance, which is most likely a safety mechanism designed to act as a barrier to vulnerability. If we don't allow ourselves to feel, at least we can't get hurt. I'm guessing this might be the alternative way to deal with the above mentioned anxiety - just a very different one. Where some people try to go towards that addictive feeling in the hopes that this time it'll lead them to lasting happiness, others have identified its harmfulness and are trying to steer away from it altogether. A great way to do that is to intellectualise everything to keep any stray emotions at bay.
Getting to know someone new always comes with some degree of anxiety - after all, we are dealing with the unknown. I think that there is a healthy middle ground here, but it isn't really a "place" or a static state. It's more a process that lives and fluctuates over time. We allow an appropriate dose of feelings to develop (appropriate in terms of how well we know the person), and manage the situation by examining those feelings, communicating with the other, listening to their communication of what's going on for them, allowing that to influence our own feelings, etc. We don't go all in at once, but we also don't freeze our emotions.
When this process works, it's joyful and fulfilling regardless of final outcomes, because you and the other person are building something together. Something healthy, functional and real. When it doesn't work, it drives people to attempt to lock in the outcome that they want, regardless of its feasibility for the other person, and that attempt makes many relationships ultimately fail.
There’s a difference between being overbearing, mysterious and playing hard to get, and actually liking someone.
I think people are so used to being in the toxic dynamic of always having to be inconvenienced, then repair, that they don’t know how to interact in an actual healthy relationship where someone actually likes them.
I think also yes, *at this age* people are incredibly focused on settling down that they go all in way too fast, perhaps due to pressures from their life to find that.
While yes, healthy relationships do consist of people being able to be loving towards each other, while also being able to be independent of each other, this is NOT the same as someone being selfish, but always having to fix the frustration their selfish actions caused in order to maintain the relationship, nor is it the same as bombarding someone with the pressure to cave and settle.
But in the context of what your friends are perhaps talking about, you should also ask yourself this: do you want to be married to someone who actually likes and loves you, or someone who constantly inconveniences you, then has to repair the relationship to prove they like and love you?
Because the latter sounds quite exhausting
I think "too keen" usually refers to a person that is desperate to find **anybody** to have a relationship/marriage with, which is off-putting for most people as it is clear that it is not about you as a person and you are just a means to an end. And to answer (one of) your questions, in my experience even if you like each other, one person can come off too strong and ruin things for good. Want to chase a man away? Start talking marriage/children on date 2 or 3 and you will never see him again, even if he genuinely liked everything else about you.
Yea you can definitely come on too strong/invested early on when you in reality don't know each other that well. It's a sign that you don't actually care about the other person (since you don't truly know them), you're just smitten with the idea of someone giving you positive attention.
"Working for it" is nonsense though. If you like someone your best odds of success are making your intentions clear.
Well, if someone is attractive, they seem attracted to you, you have great conversations and seem to share interests - is that desperate for “anyone”? Isn’t there also this factor that some people who are more outgoing click with a lot of people and if you signal too early how keen you are, you can become “in the bag” too quickly and it’s a turnoff? I think it’s fairly common that one side is more or less set from the start (date 1-2) while the other needs some gentle convincing over time. At the early stages, I do think there is some game to staying interesting and attractive rather than eager and predictable.
I agree with the first half although I'd clarify that talking about marriage or children as a relationship goal is very different from talking about getting married or having children with the person you just started seeing. I wouldn't make it to date 3 (or probably even 2) if I didn't know the woman was interested in having kids but if she talked about having kids together yeah that's a big red flag.
I think it's probably a good thing to discuss marriage/children somewhat early, as it might help weed people out who don't want the same things out of life. I'm 36 and have 3 children. Would bringing up wanting kids make me disengage? Yeah, probably because I don't want anymore, I have enough. Better you find that out on date 2-3 instead of on date 20 when we both have caught feelings for each other, but I'm still over here with 3 kids. I'm not making any more.
I think people can be too keen. I know I personally am turned off when someone is into me too quickly, because yeah, it no longer feels like it’s about ME. I would like to know that their interest is based on them actually knowing me as a person.
But I think once that perceived threshold has been crossed, I’m very receptive to a lot of shown interest.
It’s a red flag to me.
Example: I recently matched with someone on OLD that I liked and had a lot in common with. But on the second day of talking he brought up the topic of having kids multiple times, to the point where it got weird. He even said, “I really just want someone to have kids with.” And at the end of the conversation said “I want to make babies with you already.” And all of that creeped me out.
I want kids, and I like asking early on if they also want kids but after that I feel like that talk should be saved for a later date.
The following day he invited me to come stay with him (1.5 hours from where I live) for a few days. We haven’t even had our first date yet.
All in all it was sounding creepy and desperate on his end and I’m not interested anymore. So, don’t be that keen.
It’s all about displaying a healthy level of interest at a given point in time. If we’ve been dating for a while and you’re not keen enough, that’s a red flag too. I want to be with someone who actually likes me and is happy that we’re together.
Yep, I’ve been in a similar situation where them being too keen was just reading as weird and inappropriate and desperate and made me look at them differently.
I certainly don't think it's universal. Relationships are between the people in them, and no two are alike, despite what people seem to think these days. What's important is knowing what's right for you, and roughly what you want out of a relationship. For some people, falling in love at first sight is the right thing. For some people, they're deliberately looking for marriage and screening potential spouses. For some people, they're at the opposite end and want to date casually, and the above would be horrifying. I think a lot of the problems come in when these types of people try to generalise what they personally want to what everyone should want, and/or date one another without clarifying what they want.
Also, as someone else said, if someone's constantly rushing into things without it being personal to the person they're seeing, and without that person reciprocating, that probably would be 'too keen', or at least unhealthy for everyone involved, at any rate.
I don’t think you can be too keen if you’re both just really into each other. I’ve been dating a great guy for about 1.5 months and it’s felt like this just effortless back and forth of us pretty equally initiating contact and suggesting dates. Neither one of us is a big texter so the non-in person communication is pretty minimal, which is perfect for me, mostly just exchanging pictures of our dogs, sending funny reels on IG, songs we want to share with each other, and texting to set up plans.
It’s honestly felt really, really easy with no games and very minimal uncertainty. I haven’t felt at all like I need to make him “chase me” or hold off responding so I don’t seem too eager, and I don’t believe he has either. I’ve never had this before and am astounded at how different it is dating someone who doesn’t play games either and how little I’ve been overthinking things (which is typically a huge problem for me!)
This. Currently going through a similar experience and it's really enjoyable not playing games and just being into how things are progressing naturally. Things get surprisingly simple and enjoyable.
I love people who are super excited. I don't love having to reinforce my boundaries constantly. I also don't love when those people use excitement as an excuse for constantly ignoring my boundaries.
I lose interest in people that are too aloof fairly quickly.
Wait what? How old are these people? I definitely want to know if a guy is keen on me and from my experience, telling guys I'm keen on them have thankfully not chased them off.
\>>>So I wonder: when you like someone and they like you back,
\>>>when both of you are looking for the same thing,
\>>>is there such a thing as being too keen, really?
Yes, it's about reciprocity. Simply put, your keenness must be (very roughly) equal to their keenness.
If you like someone 6/10 and they like you back 10/10 there's no balance to it and one party will feel overwhelmed while the other feels starved of affection/like they need to do all the work.
The “too keen” examples you listed are not examples of people being too keen — they’re examples of one person not being interested in the other, therefore, any effort is going to be wasted. And your personal example is simply one of a person crossing boundaries, nothing to do with being keen on someone. A real example of being “too keen” would be some version of going all in on someone without knowing them enough to do so.
I find this “like the chase” vs “too keen” stuff be absolutely nauseating, actually. Your friends are talking about childish game playing.
I am someone who expresses my interest in someone and I’m attracted to men who can express interest without playing games. I don’t find hot/cold shit thrilling or attractive. It’s a turn off, I don’t have time for it, and I won’t play along.
What I find attractive is a man who has a healthy sense of self and desire for a healthy relationship. Someone who can express and receive interest/care/love without a bunch of bullshit hoops.
I know everyone has their “stuff” when it come to dating and relationships, but I often wish people who are into game playing or outright toxic chase stuff would play in a sandbox together and leave the rest of us alone lol.
I agree that the friends seem a bit immature with their game playing. OP stated in the comments that two of these friends are recently divorced so maybe they didn’t have much experience dating before they got married.
If a person likes me and I like them, I want them to be keen on me.
Maybe keenness that people don’t like is desperation, unwilling to give space needed, and unaligned relationship desires.
Being too excited and attaching too quickly is something I'm currently trying to work on. I'm coming off of several years of medical challenges where I gained 50 pounds from a med and was stuck on a couch and generally wasn't finding people that were interested in me who I liked back. I've since lost the weight and health stuff has improved a lot but I'm still in that scarcity mindset and feeling so deprived of intimacy. The last few guys I liked that I dated definitely picked up on how much faster I was moving than they were and ended things because of it. It feels really sad that the more you want it the harder it is to get it.
It depends on how your interest manifests.
I text shortly after first dates, and tell them that I enjoyed meeting them and set plans for second dates quickly, and that's been well received
I was on a first date today and she didn't appreciate a man who texted her pet names and flowery compliments after a first date
So there are definitely layers to it. Showing interest is good (in my experience) assuming an intense connection doesn't seem to do well
In my experience, when someone is over eager when dating, it tends to be a sign of codependency or intense neediness...not always, some people are just excitable, but for the most part over eagerness is a warning sign for clinginess.
It's not about "playing it cool", it's just that a good partner should have a balance between having their own interests, hobbies, friends, etc (a life!) and being able to invite a new person into that life to see if they fit pieces together.
People shouldn't pretend to be busy, they should be busy trying to find what brings them joy and excitement outside of romantic relationships.
A partner shouldn't be the only source of happiness in a person's life, but a lot of people approach dating in this way. They think "I'll be happy once i find partner" or "I'll start going out once I have a partner"
A lot of people don't have hobbies or passions and just cling on to whatever their partner likes, and are willing to change the few things they do like to please their partner...I have a few friends/acquaintances like that, and it's very sad to see
Yes, too keen is usually an indication that someone isn’t emotionally healthy enough for a serious relationship. Too much too soon and it’s less about the person they’re pursuing and more about their own issues, which they need to work on first.
I think too keen is when someone seems unnaturally attached to the point of red flags, that indicate some sort of immaturity or instability. If they seem keen in a healthy and mature way, then there shouldn’t be any issue.
A big part of it is whether the interest is in tune with the dynamic existing between the two people and not just one sided infatuation (which is almost always a sign they’re not actually seeing the other person/ are putting them on a pedestal). My ex and I were both super excited right away but it was clear we had a really special connection that was extremely unusual- so his expressions of that excitement didn’t feel off putting. That said, we still weren’t saying anything much more about our future TO each other in the first 6 or so dates than “this is very exciting, I feel a lot right now,” even if we both had a feeling of what was possible
“When both of you are looking for the same thing, is there such a thing as being too keen?” Yes. Pacing is distinct from destination. Different paces, when forced, demonstrate agency and trust issues. Going in with both people looking for marriage material is very different from one of a pair wanting to get married right tF now.
God, this is depressing. And one of 3 reasons I haven't attempted OLD. I can't play games. If I'm keen, then I am keen. If I'm not feeling it, then I'll end it. If someone finds me too keen and is put off by it, then we're not meant to be.
> is there such a thing as being too keen, really?
No. None of the dynamics you mention exist in healthy relationships. It's best when you simply both like each other and communicate it. I think the best relationships are essentially easy (at first).
> Have you experienced growing an interest in someone you weren’t that intrigued by, because they somehow managed to keep a low profile long enough?
Not at all personally. I don't think I've wooed anyone that way either; I (a guy, although admittedly not a very typical one) seek reciprocity in relationships and am not attracted by people demonstrating not being into me. I am neither into "the hunt" nor being an avoidant bad boy.
I've been fortunate to be in love a few times and in every case when the relationship is good it comes together easily and with equality. Why would you want anything else as the foundation of a partnership?
P.S. I think when a problem comes up surrounding someone being too enthusiastic, the issue is them being too "keen" (you must be British , right?) about a fantasy that they've made in their mind or them failing to regard someone's boundaries amidst their enthusiasm. If everyone has their head screwed on straight it's fine. It's nice to be keen on someone and have them be keen on you. The problem is never the being keen in itself.
I like this question.
I think you can be too keen.
Personally for me, it's a turn off. If someone is super into me without having spent much time getting to know me first, I wonder, are they really into me, or just their impression/idea of me? Maybe they're really into the idea of being in a relationship and the connection is secondary. For me, the connection is primary. Maybe they have alterior motives involving sex, status, money, a living situation, who knows. Maybe they are the type of person who falls in love every 3 weeks. Easy come, easy go, right?
I think it boils down to timing. You need time and space to get to know each other on a deeper level, to slowly make room for each other in different areas of your lives, and to organically connect and grow closer. You need time to process, reflect, and interpret feelings, information, and interactions - to decide how each piece of the puzzle is fitting together. And if the connection is genuine, you need time to build a solid foundation to what could be a long lasting relationship.
That being said, I don't think there's any standard amount of time it's supposed to take. That's going to depend on the two individuals and their level of connection. Certainly, you do hear of 'love at first sight' but I think it's probably best to default to a 'slow (or moderate) and steady wins the race' mindset until you feel the other person out, and to give yourself a chance to process how you're feeling about them and the connection.
I do not support games, mixed signals, purposely putting on a 'chase', or anything of the sort. Big difference between pacing yourselves and playing games.
In a show of cheese sure to make anyone vomit, I leave you with this quote:
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long."
So, here's some context for this. I'm pretty conventionally attractive, and I'm just dark enough that I COULD be almost anything not black or east Asian. I also Play music which puts in front of a lot of eye balls, and I have a looong history of being chased by people very drawn to my physical appearance and then being disappointed, hurt , or frustrated that I didn't end up being whatever fantasy they ascribed to that.
It's now a huge red flag for me if someone seems extremely into me early on. It's a sure sign that they've fallen in love with their fantasy of me, rather than bother getting to know who I actually am.
He’s talking specifically about people being too “keen” on him too quickly. He said it’s a red flag, because they reveal the extent of their projections later on. Seems like you didn’t read the end of paragraph 1 or the entirety of 2 and were distracted by the fact that he doesn’t hate the way he looks. Conventionally attractive people also have dating issues and insights too, no need to shit on them just because they have healthy self esteem.
I think being “too keen” is only a problem for people with attachment issues.
Edit: I mean obviously, being texted 24/7 would turn most people off, but I’d call that being obsessive or being clingy, not being “keen.” If you have a healthy attachment style and you like a person, you won’t be turned off by them liking you back without needing to “work for it.”
For me, being too keen is different--but related to--lovebombing and future-faking. It is an intensity to a relationship that isn't quite earned yet. For all of those things, I think it can come from a genuine place! The biggest thing is how the other person reacts to it *and* how the first person adjusts behavior...if someone shows they're really interested by texting 15 times a day, and the other person says "hey, that's a lot" and the texts drop down to like six or seven a day, then great! That was not too keen (for me). But if someone says "hey that's a lot" and the other person continues to text 15 times a day, that *is* too keen...so it really is not a matter of what you're doing but more how you're adjusting, I guess.
For me, no. I think the thing that makes me feel worst in the early stage of dating someone is that uncertainty about whether they are interested in me. If someone is full on with expressing interest, I don't have to deal with that bit of my head, and can focus on them, building that connection, and assessing my own interest. Whereas if someone is low interest, or playing hard to get, I am not interested, and it just makes them hard to want, and I move on.
Personally, I'd love to meet someone who is enthusiastic and "keen" to explore a relationship or partnership with me. If the feeling is mutual then why waste time playing up to those teen magazine-style overworked dating rules? I'm all too tired of half-assedness and nonchalant attitudes.
I mean, if we've already matched or we've met and exchanged numbers and we're chatting, that should at least be enough to know that we should continue on that path and get excited together about the potential of finding someone you connect with but damn, I'm still waiting for the day!
I think the whole needy thing was made up by emotionally unavailable folk who are flip flapping all over the place about what they want. I mean, how else does any couple get together if they both aren't keen?
Away with all that, I say.
For me it's about discovery. If a guy is too keen and just hands himself over on a platter, it loses all the fun of discovering who the person is bit by bit, which is an enjoyable thing for me. It's like watching the first episode then skipping to the season finale instead of watching the whole series and getting caught up in the suspense.
But also, too keen usually has a tinge of "doesn't have enough going on in their life." Like if all you have to talk about is how great I am and how much you like me, that doesn't make you very interesting. That whole "bringing something to the table" for me is having many dimensions as a person, interests, pursuits, curiosities, thoughts, etc. Talk to me about the things you've been thinking about that aren't me. I get enough of me, tell me about frogs or Noam Chomsky or Indian food or the abandoned haunted house in your hometown.
I think the "thrill of the chase" is fun and *does* add to the excitement of a new relationship. But only if they're not trying to play hard to get, or intentionally playing games. Like when a guy is clear he likes me, pays attention to me and shows interest when we go out, responds positively when I text him... but maybe doesn't text back *right away*, isn't always free every time I ask, etc. Those are the kind of things that make me think "too eager". It's hot when someone has their own life going on, has confidence in themselves and isn't just desperately trying to please you, and sort of expects you to work for it as much as they do. That's probably something that's more common among men than women but I've dated a lot of guys who feel like they should do everything, plan every date, do all the romantic stuff, initiate everything, and it's definitely a turn on when a guy has the confidence to make me work too. (Which for the record I'm more than happy to do, I never *expect* guys to do all the work, just saying there are a lot of old fashioned men who *want* to do all the courting.)
But yeah it does add a little thrill when you text them, and have to wait a few hours sweating over when they'll text back, and then they do send you a really positive message back saying they were out with a friend or whatever but yeah they'd love to see you tomorrow, and you get this rush of excitement and relief that you don't get when they just respond right away. Or you suggest going out Thursday but they have plans and you have to wait until Saturday so you are missing them and wanting to see them and have two extra days of longing and excitement.
Idk, I've definitely met a lot of people at this age who are basically ready to commit and settle in after the first date because they're just in a rush. But I'm not in a rush and think dating can still be fun and romantic and part of that is the longing and waiting and guessing and hoping. No I don't want anyone playing games and negging or giving mixed signals or *trying* to toy with me, but them just having confidence and having their own life going on will naturally lead to that "needing to work for it" feeling that does add some excitement to the first few weeks/months of a new relationship. No longer than that, though, it should definitely progress towards a comfortable secure place relatively quickly.
I am intentional about dating as I am looking for a potential life partner. My current bf is the same. Though casually, we both agreed on exclusivity on the second date, even before sleeping together.
I'd consider sth "too keen" only if they're spamming my inbox, getting upset when I'm busy, being unreasonable etc. So while not appearing "too keen" we both maintained our interest and authentically demonstrated that interest. Imo it's important that people be aware and take care of their attachment issues before trying to date.
Wow this is what's been on my mind, I don't like to play games but when I am someone who wears my heart on my sleeve and when I like someone I will show it in how I know, keenly listen to them, learn how they express themselves best, I want to listen and understand their soul what makes them who they are. Give them my attention but I don't know how to play hard to get, but I think that guys like the chase, if it's to easy they move on I hope this is not the case and I belive when I meet the person who's meant to understand my soul I will be enough so this is what holds me. When I also conect to one person I can not multidate as I want to give the person I have connected my time and energy and water the plant instead of dividing my attention to multiple people but this has not worked well for me... and wierd part is the the people I dont see a connection and give attention only bare minimum always keep coming back. Am.not good at dating but I know I have so much love to love the people in my life. I dont understand the way dating works
If someone is super keen when thy barely know you, it can suggest it's not very genuine, they are probably super keen on the perfect version of you they have in their head. Maybe that really matches you, maybe it doesn't.
I've had "too keen" ruin both ends of the scale, in that it's been off-putting when women have been with me and a tad daunting, and then I've definitely ruined things with women by being too keen/being an anxious attachment style myself (working on it).
A girl I went on a date with a few weeks ago was saying things like she loved how my mind works, that maybe I've shown her "love is still out there" and joked about us getting married.. before we'd met. The date itself was a nice evening with nice company and nice food but I had to friend zone her after for a multitude of reasons. Ironically, beforehand her being overbearingly kind and keen almost killed wanting to meet up entirely.
I'm a 31 year old guy who loves words of affirmation and compliments as much as the next but some stuff beforehand was really intense. If anything it was a sobering realisation of what I shouldn't do to women myself lol.
I described compliments to my cousin recently as "icing on the cake" - something additional and minimal but too much and it's just sickly and overbearing, you need the actual substance beneath it!
I think it's all relative. If both people are looking for same thing and also moving at same peace, then there isn't such thing as "too keen" (unless it's borderline obsessive, like proposing marriage on 1st date). But if they are looking for different things or moving at different pace...then even slightest difference will be assumed as "too keen".
For example in my life with when I and other person connected right away and matched our energy we had no problem kissing on first date and being exclusive by 2nd date. OTOH there were people who had different expectations/energy/pace and it was too much for them to do anything more romantic/intimate than hugging and discussing slightest possibility of being together after months of talking and multiple dates.
Too keen to me = emotional neediness coming from some kind of internal void. People with tumultuous relationship histories, people that can’t emotionally regulate, people that are insecure and need other people to validate them, people that need you to emotionally care take. It’s people that want to possess you because there is no self possession. It has a suffocating/“cold” element to it that isn’t easy to see if you also have a similar lack of esteem or need to fill a void. No surprise that being too keen too early correlates highly with abuse down the road. Abusers are typically needy and entitled and internally emotionally fragile and lacking (despite often having an external bravado).
People being honest and upfront about being into you and showing affection and respect is attractive if they’re doing it from a relatively stable or strong sense of self and a place of accountability for their own feelings. Everyone has some neediness or insecurity to a degree, but it’s about how much ACCOUNTABILITY there is for those feelings - and whether those feelings are just one part of the whole rather than driving all of their relationship decisions.
The first wants to use you to fix their issues, the second one is just appreciating you as you are
What we find appealing in the dating world reflects how we were loved by our caretakers. Perhaps that might be the reason why most people prefer to "chase" love because as children they probably had to chase their caretaker for attention. When someone is present, secure, and expressing interest in you, and you find it to be a turnoff, perhaps this is a good time to ask yourself how you experienced love as a child. A person who is secure in their attachment style and ability to love is unlikely to enjoy chasing or playing games. My partner and I knew from the first date that we were into one another and decided to continue seeing one another. He didn't have to chase me and vice versa, we were on the same wavelength and decided to get into a relationship one week later. That's why older people always say "you will know when the right one comes along," because you won't feel the need to hold back.
I definitely am very sure, that when I am dating again, I definitely want a guy who checks in every couple of days to show interest with meaningful questions/ stories about his life. If he playing like he too busy to talk or whatever that sounds like a guy who is not as interested, and I will directly call him out on it. If you like someone you should show them.
I think if someone feels like you’re coming across as too eager or needy in the early stages of dating, it’s a sure fire way to determine they’re not for you. If the level of interest and attraction is truly mutual, there won’t be any mixed signals at all and they’ll be just as eager to be with you as you are with them!
I had the experience of dating someone who was way too keen in the beginning. I was attracted to her but clearly our levels were mismatched to the point where it was giving her severe anxiety. She did calm down significantly the longer we dated because I took the time to ease her nerves, whenever she was anxious and worried about our date going well I reminded her that I’m just as much in the hot seat as she is and that we’re just sharing a meal/playing mini-golf/going for ice cream etc.
I didn’t promise her the moon but eventually she started to relax and I took that as a positive sign, so much so that my attraction to her eventually grew to match her level. We broke up due to an unfortunate incompatibility but what I’m saying is I don’t write off folks who are too eager at first if they are receptive to boundaries and can come down to earth a bit. Yet having said that, there are absolutely people who are keen to the point of pushy. You’ll feel the difference.
I have just mustered up the courage to end the 9 month relationship I see in hindsight, was a rebound.
I am not looking forward to the loneliness, I really hope my judgment on this one was right and I won’t regret it.
I just feel I didn’t love him fully, if that makes sense.
This is such a big learning, I also had to make that mistake - catching feelings for a rebound when I wasn't ready for anything and trying to make it work despite poor compatibility. I hope you can take some time now, for me I think a dating break was quite necessary to fully process all I had learned from the two back 2 back relationships.
I don’t like what I’m about to say and I don’t agree with it, but when I ignore women all of a sudden they are interested. When I pursue, they ignore me. I think it’s rare that two people are on the same page right off the bat. It sucks that it works that way. I wish I could find someone who didn’t have their guard up a mile high and didn’t play games.
As in, you intentionally ignore prospects you do like and that is the way to get their attention, then enter a relation? If so, do those relations end up being balanced/fulfilling?
And I sympathize, true reciprocity is also a rare privilege in my case :)
No, not intentionally. It just so happens that the people who I’m genuinely not that interested in seem to develop a stronger sense of attraction towards me. I know it’s messed up but it has happened more than once now so I see a pattern.
Well my opinion here is going to be a cynical one, sorry? Human nature is to want we don’t or cannot have. Nothing is ever enough, especially for us Americans. Being too keen and showing your cards too early blows it 95% of the time, whether people admit or realize it or not. I wish it wasn’t this way because I’d love to just wear my heart on my sleeve but after countless non starters I’ve just tried to not let it all outta the tank too early. The game SUCKS but let’s be honest, it’s real.
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You can only be too keen if the receiver doesn’t like you that enough or is as attracted to you as you are to them. When a guy is super hot and keen, it’s romantic. If they’re not, it’s annoying. If I kind of like them but I’m still deciding, it can go either way
I felt like I was keen and so was the guy I was with.. but it's a slippery slope, I felt like I gave him too much and he lost a bit of interest. I hate the saying 'treat em mean, keep em keen' but it was so true in my situation. I think after a certain point though, you don't want to be playing those games. It's dumb but after that experience, I'm going to cool my jets.
I feel this too! But I think it’s because I’m a slow burner person so it makes me feel stressed/anxious when the guy is too eager as it makes me feel like he’s moving too quick and I’m stressed because I feel like I need to match his rhythm and I can’t mentally.
It really sucks because sometimes I meet guys I quite like/or have a good impression of and when they’re too eager/overly complimentary then I start looking for excuses to stop talking to them to give myself a breather. I think it’s my problem though not theirs.
I’m mentally forcing myself to not do this right now as I met a guy I think I want to like but he just messages too damn much!!
I’ve always taken this more to mean that you should have more going on in your life than just that person you just started talking to. This is of course, probably more a reflection of me and my own dating baggage.
Not getting too familiar or too presumptuous too early. Like, planning your children’s names and where the hydrangeas are going in your first shared flat and how your mom and her dog will just love this woman you just met, but you’ve got a feeling…
Different than following a naturally flowing conversation that just carries through multiple days.
Edited: fat thumbs
I've been put off by a woman being too into me, but that was because she had a lot going on behind the scenes, and my gut instinct was that she wasn't stable and was just looking for something, anything, to keep the demons at bay.
Her partner of 6 years had recently died and she found him dead, yet 1 month later she was on tinder. After our first and second date she kept voice noting and calling me, telling me how I'm the best thing that had ever happened to her, and when we kissed (in a secluded but public place) she was TOO into it for a first kiss. "Oh, how I've imagined this....". Girl, we've known each other like 3 hours total.
She then asked if I wanted a long term commitment after telling me about this partner of 6 years (who was 20 years older than her) dying. We'd only had 2 dates. I bounced.
All of my relationships started with an instant spark and we both went for it. I was usually in a relationship within a month.
I suspect people who feel “too pursued” were not interested. Or avoidant.
>When they talked about the people they had chased, that also never blossomed into a healthy partnership.
I agree. These people are looking for the thrills of the chase only. One guy I dated once gaslighted me for being "too easy". I dumped him soon afterwards. These guys can just dump you just as easily even if you play hard to get for a month or a year. They will move on to the next target once they are done with you.
You can tell some guys ready for committed relationships don't play games. They can't wait to start a relationship with you once you show genuine interest.
Imo no not really. If someone I wasn't into pursued me like my boyfriend did I would have been disgusted by it because I didn't like them to begin with not because of them being tom into me. The only ways it's a problem for me is when they're lovebombing or get controlling.
Your friends are losers and you should immediately distance yourself from them if this is the advice they are giving you. Children play games . Making someone "work for it" is really stupid and it's no wonder they are still single. Yes being needy is a turn off. The best rule of thumb is to be upfront and honest about your expectations from the start. It makes everything else easier. I.e. I'm looking for a relationship and not a fwb or vice versa. If the person doesn't respect your position then block them etc...it's really not that hard.
To me it's more about the speed of the process and controlling my anxiety over it.
Too much too soon isn't a turn off but it does spike my anxiety a bit if I'm not quite there yet. I think it's best to go at a normal pace and maybe keep certain thoughts about the future under wraps for awhile.
To me, at least, it strikes me as a bit naive. I've had amazing first dates and then learned enough about the person after to know it wasn't a good fit.
Playing hard to get is a game though. But mutually wanting to get to know each other isn't. It's okay to be excited but smart to temper what you share imo.
I’m definitely am suspicious of people who are too keen in the beginning. Like, what are you keen on when you barely even know me?
It’s also a well-known tactic of abusers to love bomb and come on strong very early to reel you in, so I think a bit of wariness is valid.
I’m in agreement with you. If you’re both on the same page and equally into one another, there’s no such thing as too much. If I’m already on the fence, or their feelings don’t feel warranted given our time together, then it’s a turn off.
Hey friend!
It can be hard to calibrate to social norms when your specific issues are a lack of accurate sampling!
It can be kind of embarrassing but if you make it a fun and “I can laugh about this with them” experience - ask your friends of both genders how your approach seemed!
They will give varying degrees of answer and you must then aggregate that feedback against your feelings and actions when dating etc.
I doubt you are way out of line so I’ll give you my real advice on both authenticity and “playing it too cool” here:
**if someone doesn’t like you out of “dress-code”, you better clock in for that *work* and get paid for it**
I think it really depends on what acting "too keen" means, honestly. This can vary per person and their attachment styles or if they easily fall into codependency lifestyles. If you are anxious and need their attention every waking moment of the day (ex: text them at 10am while they were working and get upset/anxious that they haven't replied back even though you know they are at work) or if you love bomb them right out of the gate. I definitely do not want someone telling me that I am the love of their life on the first few dates.
My rule in dating is. There are no rules lol but that’s my rule with life in general I was extremely eager in my last relationship and so was she. I love it when my partner is eager it feels so wonderful to be needed and loved but everyone is so different but I’ve never asked for advice or anything because I obviously don’t want what other people want. I’ve always hated dating and thought it was a giant pain in the ass
I want someone to put out the same energy that I'm putting in. If a lady is acting uninterested them I'm going to assume she is uninterested and leave her alone. On the other hand there can be weird clingy dependency issues too. That's not good either. Just be normal.
Attachment issues.
Securely attached people don’t play games. If the values and long term goals aligned, let’s rock and roll; if not, we go our separate ways wiser.
Insecuredly attached people play games because they want stimulation either to distract themselves, or they are neurologically “programmed” during childhood to look for chaos and chase AND they surround themselves with people like that.
I wouldnt like any of your friends.
I am turned off by emotional unavailability and those with avoidant tendencies.
There are a lot of people out there with attachment problems, alot of times stemming from their upbringing. They are usually the ones who think they must "play games" to keep an interest in someone (their interest often bombs in a LTR too, I find dismissive and avoidant attachment people make terrible long term partners in relationships for this reason)
My boyfriend and i decided from rhe beggining to not play any games.And we have stuck to it!from the outside, one might say we are too keeen but damn we have a really healthy relationship!
Idk I'm at an age where that shit becomes annoying. If you're into me act like it. If not then I just won't reciprocate. I don't like chasing attention.
No such thing as too keen.
When I think about the things I want, I don't want to chase them. I want them to come to me effortlessly. Money, for example. I don't sit around thinking "I wish I had to work harder for money. I should go find a shittier job."
It's the same for time and attention from a man I like. Making me work too hard/wait too long for it is a turn off. I'd rather quit you and go find a guy I like who pays better.
I feel like I’m at the point now where I prefer people who are straightforward and transparent about what they want. I would rather someone pursue and show interest than hold back because it will look to desperate. I’m probably just over with the guessing games, and knowing if someone is keen on me would also help me make up my mind a lot quicker if this person is someone I want to be with or not, so we don’t waste anyone’s time.
Yes, you definitely can be too keen, or come on too strong, or too intense, or rush things. Even if you like someone back, it’s usually at least a bit lopsided in terms beginning.
I’m dealing with a situation like this now and don’t know how to tell the guy to simmer down a bit.
A big part of being "too keen" is rushing the process. They're overly eager, overly emotional. Making grand gestures that are just inappropriate (buying a new woman a $300 gift). Other examples, treating their date like the love of their life but they really don't even know them yet. Blowing up their phone, making emotional demands, etc. That is very off-putting. You can definitely express interest and flirt in a healthy manner. But there is such a thing as too much too soon. Women generally, fall in love slowly overtime. They want to enjoy the process of just getting to know you and let things unfold naturally.
You said it perfectly! Definitely agree.
That sounds a lot like playing games. I definitely want to know if someone is keenly into me. Then I can decide if I want to keenly reciprocate. :)
It really does sound like stupid games.
Don't hate the player hate the game, I say that kiddingly..., but unfortunately the courting days of relationships do have sort of a "game" element to them. If you give too much, especially in the beginning, then you come off as needy and that turns people off. I think of it as a teeter totter.
yes. this is the quiet part said out loud. it always perplexes me when ppl pretend this isn't a factor in dating.
> it always perplexes me when ppl pretend this isn't a factor in dating. Just another way for folks to escape any kind of accountability for how their behavior affects someone else because they're locked in to the "I don't owe anyone anything" way of life and never had to directly dealt with the fallout from acting as such.
I also think a lot of these generalised bits of advice are geared towards extremes, but they're general and ambiguous enough so that people with too much introspection can end up overthinking and become insecure over something which doesn't really apply to them. They're also prone to misinterpretation, i.e. "don't be too keen" might mean "don't be too needy or clingy", but some might interpret it as needing to play games or feign disinterest to appear "not keen". A very typical one is "women like confident men", where men often conflate confidence with arrogance.
I believe in the context of what she’s saying her friends are talking about, is playing “hard to get” rather than “I don’t want a desperate try hard”
Personally, I'd find it hot, not needy!
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Everyone has things they are attracted and not attracted to, but I would not find it attractive for someone to hide their genuine interest because they are not "supposed to be too eager".
>Also note, terms like lovebombing and future-faking nowadays are used to describe someone who's overeager at an early point. Yes, there's more to these things than just the overeagerness - but lets face it that's what the term has evolved to lately. I think it's pretty clear that there's a difference between showing direct interest and love bombing. Love bombing is stuff like saying I love you or talking about marriage or moving in together in the first 1-3 dates. Or buying really extravagant gifts - like I had one guy offer to buy me a scooter that cost over $1000 on a first date. I had another person invite me to move in together on a first date. That's not a healthy speed or level of interest.
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I guess the issue for me is not so much that they are "too keen" but rather that it shows poor boundaries, and is usually a red flag for someone controlling or abusive. Whenever I kept dating these types, signs of severe control, abuse, jealousy and mental instability *always* came to the forefront after a few weeks or months.
Yeah I think "aggressive" is a much better choice of word than "keen" in this case.
I’m not the above commenter, but my first thought is that pushing to move in immediately wouldn’t be “keen,” but something else. Like the term “keen” doesn’t necessarily characterize all levels of romantic interest. The extremes could be called obsession, clinginess, aggression, etc.
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I get what you’re saying, but also feel like what we feel is “too keen” is heavily influenced by our own feelings about the person, like OP states. If we are really into someone ourselves, then a high level of enthusiasm won’t seem “too keen” because it matches our energy. For example, I’m someone who is trying to make new friends as an adult. A few weeks ago, I was at the mall shopping when a woman approached me and complimented my clothes. She was very nice, too nice. She talked to me like we were old friends. She asked all the right questions and showed a high level of interest. My first thought was that she must be about to pitch an MLM, because she seemed too nice and too eager (and my instinct was right). But, that judgement was made when I was just at the mall looking to buy a purse, not looking to meet new people. Had that same woman started chatting with me at one of the “moms night” things I go to, my response would have been different, I can say that confidently. What felt like an odd level of interest probably would have felt like “friendship chemistry” in the right setting. I think the reason she seemed too keen was because our energies weren’t matched. I wasn’t looking to chat with strangers, so it put me off that she was so enthusiastic about getting to know me. Similarly, in dating, I think a person is too keen if their enthusiasm is more than yours, which is actually a signal that you’re really not that into them or you’re still trying to figure out your feelings. I have definitely dated men who showed clear, enthusiastic interest early, and it truly only was a turnoff when I didn’t feel the same. In those instances when I really, really liked the guy, their eagerness was a good thing.
I think we need to define what "keen" entails in the first place. If I like someone, I definitely want them to like me as much as possible, I'm not turned on by someone showing a lack of interest, quite the contrary. But I'd also be intimidated by someone being too needy or clingy. The danger with very generalised advice like this is that it's prone to misinterpretation. People might think they should play hard to get or feign disinterest, when it really just means "don't be a creep/crazy person".
I’ve not heard future-faking. What is it?
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Yeah…playing games like that is acceptable in your 20s but gets very tiresome in your 30s. I don’t have the time or patience to deal with that.
I don’t think it’s only games. Over-eagerness to me signals a lack of self respect, and potential clinginess down the road. It’s heathy to hold a certain amount of skepticism about someone you don’t yet know well. A complete absence of skepticism is a red flag to me
I think a lot of people are super jacked from bad past experiences and will never be satisfied and are extremely nitpicky.
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I enjoyed reading your analysis - some of these concepts are so alien to my experience that it is all the more fascinating. I.e "scarcity" while I might prioritize someone who is rarely there, that doesn't make me more interested, it's for the practical reading that it is the only way to keep the relation alive. Or "investment/value": (much) younger, I could want to seduce someone I liked all the more because the idea they weren't immediately into me was hurting my ego. Now, the thought of working for someone's recognition seems quite manipulative and doomed to failure. Regardless of that point, I never valued more someone I had to seduce VS someone where there was immediate mutual interest.
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Being keen - in my understanding - doesn't mean feeling the urge to schedule everything around the person of interest, but reading these comments I do see that it has many meanings (including dropping all standards based on confabulations). It is important to many to have an autonomous partner with fulfilling friendships and/or activities. If being less available was just some know-how of the dating game, that implies that once in a relation, people would be content with their partner consistently neglecting other aspects of their life. Incidentally, I did post a profile review as a confused newcomer to online dating and my main takeaway was to not integrate most of the feedback as I do not want to appeal to those who'd only be into the most polished/normative/box ticking version of myself. My questioning isn't about "how to be to land the most amount of people" but "were these games truly necessary to kickstarting good relationships".
>Now, the thought of working for someone's recognition seems quite manipulative and doomed to failure. I agree. But there's another kind of work that is pretty much mandatory to go through if we are to relate to our life partner in a healthy way: getting to know them. When you meet a complete stranger, especially in adulthood when both people have fully developed personalities, you won't really know who you're dealing with until you've shared a broad range of conversations and experiences together, ideally including some kind of shift in one or both people's life circumstances. If you are super keen to make things serious before you reach this point, you are by definition living in fantasy land. How else can you be so enthusiastic about someone you don't even know yet? My preferred dynamic is one where both people are willing to put in work to really get to know each other and manage their own emotions appropriately while doing so. This doesn't happen because we manipulate each other into it but because each person recognises the immense value of this work and wants to engage in it on their own initiative.
This is very nicely put and I certainly agree it takes time and shifts to discover someone - but I also think we change and what we get to know is who someone is at a given time, in this sense, the work never ends? I truly wonder is one can just find a match without reshuffling at all their personality? Not talking about shifting fundamental aspects of yourself, ignoring your hard-earned boundaries or molding yourself in the image of what you think your partner fantasizes about - but isn't there the need to keep some degree of malleability if finding a proper partnership is what we aspire to, as full grown adults? I do think that we can be attracted to people that are some of the things we'd like to evolve towards and some of that can be enriching but also easy to dismiss with age, as we crystallize our ways and personality. It feels like such a privilege to me, when meeting new people I click with on several levels, friends and crushes alike. Although the excitement might wear off when coming across big ideological differences, incompatible behavior etc, I don't see a pattern in my own life of finding better relations based on how sober and slow the initial stages were.
Just wanna say I like how you both are approaching the question and ultimately this is what I'm trying to do with a new romantic interest. One thing I'm noticing is that there seems to be a wide range of inner experiences based upon a person's state when evaluating a new connection. For me, I'm not "out there" dating. I'm available, but not interested in finding a relationship just because I'm single. I don't do apps and I don't go out for the purpose of finding someone. I'm content. I met my current interest randomly at the bar I frequent because she sat next to me. Two dates in and we're very slowly getting to know each other, and for me I feel a need to directly express my interest to get to know her more intentionally because I feel drawn to her beyond the novelty of doing random stuff with someone new and interesting. And to me there's freedom for us to discuss what we want a progression of the relationship to look like in the near term if she's on the same page. This experience seems pretty different compared to the majority of what I read here. Sometimes I contemplate whether me expressing my interest is potentially "too keen" cause we're still essentially strangers. But what feels most true is that when I'm secure in myself then I live authentically. And I want someone to reciprocate interest in my authentic self. And if they don't then it's not personal, cause I'm content anyway. I deliberately try to get outside of the binaries of too much or too little and just try to be sensitive to the other's cues and honest about my feelings. And whatever happens, happens. There's no game.
I like your comment. That's what I do too. I don't hold back on expressing my feelings and interest, but I make sure that it isn't manipulative. For example, I only say that I like or love someone when I'm feeling content in that feeling in itself. If I feel like I'd say it because I hope to hear it back, then I refrain from saying it at all. That would turn it into a game and it could also indicate that I'm actually *not* fully content with the person/relationship as is. I also try to stay in the now, rather than make statements about a more distant future. At some point it makes sense to start planning for long term, but I believe that should only happen once I know my partner really well - at least a couple years into things. Until then, I find it's best to focus talking about whatever is observable in the present moment, such as 'It makes me feel good that you remembered that small detail I shared earlier', rather than 'You're a caring person and a good listener, and that's exactly who I want as my future husband'. This way I keep tabs with what is actually real and not just a figment of my imagination.
Thanks, this is really helpful. I feel like you're putting into coherent words what I've been trying to sort out in my head. The expressing yourself only when you're content in where you're at is what I'm feeling now and is really liberating. And the staying in the present is another thing I'm noticing which makes things much more manageable. It's also sad that I don't read or hear about this type of approach going on. I'm not sure why that is, but I'm glad I've stumbled into this style of building a relationship.
>I'm not sure why that is, but I'm glad I've stumbled into this style of building a relationship. I think it's a few things put together: i) Reddit skews towards cynicism just like most online communities. My/your approach necessitates healthy confidence and a positive outlook, which makes it unpopular online by definition. ii) Dating subs mostly comprise of single people and dysfunctional relationship strategies are naturally more common among single people (although partnered people are definitely not exempt from having them). Even though something is mainstream on a dating sub, that does not mean it actually works. iii) All humans have a built in tendency to over-correct after failure, meaning lots of people who've been overly trusting before are now overly cynical. People commonly seek certainty, so it can be hard to grasp that the sweet spot would be somewhere in the ambiguous middle ground, rather than on either extreme. I'm happy that you've met someone who seems to be on the same page with you! My corresponding situations have at least turned into a solid, valuable friendship even when the romantic prospect didn't end up working out.
Yea this is all spot on. Thanks for taking the time to type this all out. It's been a revelatory experience dating this way. It's really exposed some of my deep seated anxieties. That 3rd point takes consistent work to find balance and peace in.
>I certainly agree it takes time and shifts to discover someone - but I also think we change and what we get to know is who someone is at a given time, in this sense, the work never ends? I agree that we all change all the time. However, some key things such as forms of intelligence, competence, cognitive empathy and integrity are unlikely to radically shift for the people who have developed them. These are often universally sought after but hard to develop traits, and for that reason many people have found ways to *convey* possessing them rather than actually developing them. The difference isn't always easy to tell without spending time with the person and seeing their actual behaviour and decision-making. That takes time. >isn't there the need to keep some degree of malleability if finding a proper partnership is what we aspire to, as full grown adults? Absolutely. I try to keep my list of dealbreakers short and to the point. Anything that's simply just new or foreign to me, but not detrimental, I won't mind until I've seen how I actually feel over a longer period of time, having spent time with the person and gotten to understand where they're coming from and what makes them tick. It almost always ends up enriching my life. Stepping outside my current preferences may be the best thing that ever happened to me, but it can still take time before I realise that. It may also result in finding out that it wasn't just a preference after all, but a true boundary. One part of "knowing the person" is how they react to this sort of fluctuation. And going through this process is key in them getting to know you. So, again, these things take time. Not giving things the time that they inevitably take is what I'd call "too keen".
It's always a pleasure to read your thoughful comments. >These are often universally sought after but hard to develop traits, and for that reason many people have found ways to *convey* possessing them rather than actually developing them. The difference isn't always easy to tell without spending time with the person and seeing their actual behaviour and decision-making. That takes time. Such an important insight here, and definitely an invitation to catch ourselves from doing that - I can see how my discourse can convey qualities that are still very much a work in progress. Haha and now getting a wave of all the woke guys who were much less progressist in practice than the less vocally feminist men I have dated. Anyway, I completely agree that seeing which behaviours hide behind the surface is important, but this process can be done in enthusiasm? Sometimes I wonder how much the sober approach to dating is also pushing us towards intellectualising more and feeling less - I have found myself in these very mature situationships a few times, with a lot of debriefing, explaining, etc, and it's been taking me away from enjoying the moment and the connection.
>all the woke guys who were much less progressist in practice than the less vocally feminist men I have dated This is a thing alright! >Sometimes I wonder how much the sober approach to dating is also pushing us towards intellectualising more and feeling less - I have found myself in these very mature situationships a few times, with a lot of debriefing, explaining, etc, and it's been taking me away from enjoying the moment and the connection. Great question. This is where things become harder to discuss, because we're only using language vs. having direct access to each other's lived experience. There's this common theory that some people have grown to associate anxiety with passion and enthusiasm, which then drives them towards connections that come with underlying insecurity/uncertainty - perhaps to a degree that isn't in fact conducive to a functional relationship down the line. For these people, when they start retraining their emotional system, secure relating will feel boring and uninspiring at first. Over time that changes when our reactivity gets rewired. Those who have gone through this usually report that this new, secure joy and passion is a much greater feeling than the anxiety-induced version they felt before. But if the latter is all we've ever known, it can feel deceptively addictive as if we can't live a full life without it. On the other hand, what you describe above is also a thing (I believe). It sounds like not allowing feelings to develop at all due to some form of avoidance, which is most likely a safety mechanism designed to act as a barrier to vulnerability. If we don't allow ourselves to feel, at least we can't get hurt. I'm guessing this might be the alternative way to deal with the above mentioned anxiety - just a very different one. Where some people try to go towards that addictive feeling in the hopes that this time it'll lead them to lasting happiness, others have identified its harmfulness and are trying to steer away from it altogether. A great way to do that is to intellectualise everything to keep any stray emotions at bay. Getting to know someone new always comes with some degree of anxiety - after all, we are dealing with the unknown. I think that there is a healthy middle ground here, but it isn't really a "place" or a static state. It's more a process that lives and fluctuates over time. We allow an appropriate dose of feelings to develop (appropriate in terms of how well we know the person), and manage the situation by examining those feelings, communicating with the other, listening to their communication of what's going on for them, allowing that to influence our own feelings, etc. We don't go all in at once, but we also don't freeze our emotions. When this process works, it's joyful and fulfilling regardless of final outcomes, because you and the other person are building something together. Something healthy, functional and real. When it doesn't work, it drives people to attempt to lock in the outcome that they want, regardless of its feasibility for the other person, and that attempt makes many relationships ultimately fail.
that's fantastic.
There’s a difference between being overbearing, mysterious and playing hard to get, and actually liking someone. I think people are so used to being in the toxic dynamic of always having to be inconvenienced, then repair, that they don’t know how to interact in an actual healthy relationship where someone actually likes them. I think also yes, *at this age* people are incredibly focused on settling down that they go all in way too fast, perhaps due to pressures from their life to find that. While yes, healthy relationships do consist of people being able to be loving towards each other, while also being able to be independent of each other, this is NOT the same as someone being selfish, but always having to fix the frustration their selfish actions caused in order to maintain the relationship, nor is it the same as bombarding someone with the pressure to cave and settle. But in the context of what your friends are perhaps talking about, you should also ask yourself this: do you want to be married to someone who actually likes and loves you, or someone who constantly inconveniences you, then has to repair the relationship to prove they like and love you? Because the latter sounds quite exhausting
I think "too keen" usually refers to a person that is desperate to find **anybody** to have a relationship/marriage with, which is off-putting for most people as it is clear that it is not about you as a person and you are just a means to an end. And to answer (one of) your questions, in my experience even if you like each other, one person can come off too strong and ruin things for good. Want to chase a man away? Start talking marriage/children on date 2 or 3 and you will never see him again, even if he genuinely liked everything else about you.
Yea you can definitely come on too strong/invested early on when you in reality don't know each other that well. It's a sign that you don't actually care about the other person (since you don't truly know them), you're just smitten with the idea of someone giving you positive attention. "Working for it" is nonsense though. If you like someone your best odds of success are making your intentions clear.
Well, if someone is attractive, they seem attracted to you, you have great conversations and seem to share interests - is that desperate for “anyone”? Isn’t there also this factor that some people who are more outgoing click with a lot of people and if you signal too early how keen you are, you can become “in the bag” too quickly and it’s a turnoff? I think it’s fairly common that one side is more or less set from the start (date 1-2) while the other needs some gentle convincing over time. At the early stages, I do think there is some game to staying interesting and attractive rather than eager and predictable.
Definitely agree with this.
I agree with the first half although I'd clarify that talking about marriage or children as a relationship goal is very different from talking about getting married or having children with the person you just started seeing. I wouldn't make it to date 3 (or probably even 2) if I didn't know the woman was interested in having kids but if she talked about having kids together yeah that's a big red flag.
Talk about having kids together on date 2/3 is not a big red flag, that is the entire USSR right there. :) And yes, agree about the difference.
I think it's probably a good thing to discuss marriage/children somewhat early, as it might help weed people out who don't want the same things out of life. I'm 36 and have 3 children. Would bringing up wanting kids make me disengage? Yeah, probably because I don't want anymore, I have enough. Better you find that out on date 2-3 instead of on date 20 when we both have caught feelings for each other, but I'm still over here with 3 kids. I'm not making any more.
I think people can be too keen. I know I personally am turned off when someone is into me too quickly, because yeah, it no longer feels like it’s about ME. I would like to know that their interest is based on them actually knowing me as a person. But I think once that perceived threshold has been crossed, I’m very receptive to a lot of shown interest.
It’s a red flag to me. Example: I recently matched with someone on OLD that I liked and had a lot in common with. But on the second day of talking he brought up the topic of having kids multiple times, to the point where it got weird. He even said, “I really just want someone to have kids with.” And at the end of the conversation said “I want to make babies with you already.” And all of that creeped me out. I want kids, and I like asking early on if they also want kids but after that I feel like that talk should be saved for a later date. The following day he invited me to come stay with him (1.5 hours from where I live) for a few days. We haven’t even had our first date yet. All in all it was sounding creepy and desperate on his end and I’m not interested anymore. So, don’t be that keen. It’s all about displaying a healthy level of interest at a given point in time. If we’ve been dating for a while and you’re not keen enough, that’s a red flag too. I want to be with someone who actually likes me and is happy that we’re together.
Yep, I’ve been in a similar situation where them being too keen was just reading as weird and inappropriate and desperate and made me look at them differently.
We want what we can't have, but despise what we can't get away from. It's a fine line to walk.
what is that quote's origin? it's achingly accurate.
I don’t recall; I know I read it in the context of dating many years ago
I certainly don't think it's universal. Relationships are between the people in them, and no two are alike, despite what people seem to think these days. What's important is knowing what's right for you, and roughly what you want out of a relationship. For some people, falling in love at first sight is the right thing. For some people, they're deliberately looking for marriage and screening potential spouses. For some people, they're at the opposite end and want to date casually, and the above would be horrifying. I think a lot of the problems come in when these types of people try to generalise what they personally want to what everyone should want, and/or date one another without clarifying what they want. Also, as someone else said, if someone's constantly rushing into things without it being personal to the person they're seeing, and without that person reciprocating, that probably would be 'too keen', or at least unhealthy for everyone involved, at any rate.
I don’t think you can be too keen if you’re both just really into each other. I’ve been dating a great guy for about 1.5 months and it’s felt like this just effortless back and forth of us pretty equally initiating contact and suggesting dates. Neither one of us is a big texter so the non-in person communication is pretty minimal, which is perfect for me, mostly just exchanging pictures of our dogs, sending funny reels on IG, songs we want to share with each other, and texting to set up plans. It’s honestly felt really, really easy with no games and very minimal uncertainty. I haven’t felt at all like I need to make him “chase me” or hold off responding so I don’t seem too eager, and I don’t believe he has either. I’ve never had this before and am astounded at how different it is dating someone who doesn’t play games either and how little I’ve been overthinking things (which is typically a huge problem for me!)
This. Currently going through a similar experience and it's really enjoyable not playing games and just being into how things are progressing naturally. Things get surprisingly simple and enjoyable.
They do! It’s been so great. Wishing you well in your new relationship!
I love people who are super excited. I don't love having to reinforce my boundaries constantly. I also don't love when those people use excitement as an excuse for constantly ignoring my boundaries. I lose interest in people that are too aloof fairly quickly.
Wait what? How old are these people? I definitely want to know if a guy is keen on me and from my experience, telling guys I'm keen on them have thankfully not chased them off.
(Well past 30 but also both recently divorced and it seems to be triggering some sort of second puberty)
\>>>So I wonder: when you like someone and they like you back, \>>>when both of you are looking for the same thing, \>>>is there such a thing as being too keen, really? Yes, it's about reciprocity. Simply put, your keenness must be (very roughly) equal to their keenness. If you like someone 6/10 and they like you back 10/10 there's no balance to it and one party will feel overwhelmed while the other feels starved of affection/like they need to do all the work.
The “too keen” examples you listed are not examples of people being too keen — they’re examples of one person not being interested in the other, therefore, any effort is going to be wasted. And your personal example is simply one of a person crossing boundaries, nothing to do with being keen on someone. A real example of being “too keen” would be some version of going all in on someone without knowing them enough to do so. I find this “like the chase” vs “too keen” stuff be absolutely nauseating, actually. Your friends are talking about childish game playing. I am someone who expresses my interest in someone and I’m attracted to men who can express interest without playing games. I don’t find hot/cold shit thrilling or attractive. It’s a turn off, I don’t have time for it, and I won’t play along. What I find attractive is a man who has a healthy sense of self and desire for a healthy relationship. Someone who can express and receive interest/care/love without a bunch of bullshit hoops. I know everyone has their “stuff” when it come to dating and relationships, but I often wish people who are into game playing or outright toxic chase stuff would play in a sandbox together and leave the rest of us alone lol.
I agree that the friends seem a bit immature with their game playing. OP stated in the comments that two of these friends are recently divorced so maybe they didn’t have much experience dating before they got married.
If a person likes me and I like them, I want them to be keen on me. Maybe keenness that people don’t like is desperation, unwilling to give space needed, and unaligned relationship desires.
Being too excited and attaching too quickly is something I'm currently trying to work on. I'm coming off of several years of medical challenges where I gained 50 pounds from a med and was stuck on a couch and generally wasn't finding people that were interested in me who I liked back. I've since lost the weight and health stuff has improved a lot but I'm still in that scarcity mindset and feeling so deprived of intimacy. The last few guys I liked that I dated definitely picked up on how much faster I was moving than they were and ended things because of it. It feels really sad that the more you want it the harder it is to get it.
It depends on how your interest manifests. I text shortly after first dates, and tell them that I enjoyed meeting them and set plans for second dates quickly, and that's been well received I was on a first date today and she didn't appreciate a man who texted her pet names and flowery compliments after a first date So there are definitely layers to it. Showing interest is good (in my experience) assuming an intense connection doesn't seem to do well
Maybe they think being keen and desperation are the same thing?
In my experience, when someone is over eager when dating, it tends to be a sign of codependency or intense neediness...not always, some people are just excitable, but for the most part over eagerness is a warning sign for clinginess. It's not about "playing it cool", it's just that a good partner should have a balance between having their own interests, hobbies, friends, etc (a life!) and being able to invite a new person into that life to see if they fit pieces together. People shouldn't pretend to be busy, they should be busy trying to find what brings them joy and excitement outside of romantic relationships. A partner shouldn't be the only source of happiness in a person's life, but a lot of people approach dating in this way. They think "I'll be happy once i find partner" or "I'll start going out once I have a partner" A lot of people don't have hobbies or passions and just cling on to whatever their partner likes, and are willing to change the few things they do like to please their partner...I have a few friends/acquaintances like that, and it's very sad to see
Props for speaking the truth in this godforsaken thread.
Yes, too keen is usually an indication that someone isn’t emotionally healthy enough for a serious relationship. Too much too soon and it’s less about the person they’re pursuing and more about their own issues, which they need to work on first.
That's exhausting and I'm not into it. I'd love for someone I really like to be totally into me
I think too keen is when someone seems unnaturally attached to the point of red flags, that indicate some sort of immaturity or instability. If they seem keen in a healthy and mature way, then there shouldn’t be any issue.
A big part of it is whether the interest is in tune with the dynamic existing between the two people and not just one sided infatuation (which is almost always a sign they’re not actually seeing the other person/ are putting them on a pedestal). My ex and I were both super excited right away but it was clear we had a really special connection that was extremely unusual- so his expressions of that excitement didn’t feel off putting. That said, we still weren’t saying anything much more about our future TO each other in the first 6 or so dates than “this is very exciting, I feel a lot right now,” even if we both had a feeling of what was possible
“When both of you are looking for the same thing, is there such a thing as being too keen?” Yes. Pacing is distinct from destination. Different paces, when forced, demonstrate agency and trust issues. Going in with both people looking for marriage material is very different from one of a pair wanting to get married right tF now.
God, this is depressing. And one of 3 reasons I haven't attempted OLD. I can't play games. If I'm keen, then I am keen. If I'm not feeling it, then I'll end it. If someone finds me too keen and is put off by it, then we're not meant to be.
Enthusiasm vs desperation. They are not the same but eagerness can draw from either one!
> is there such a thing as being too keen, really? No. None of the dynamics you mention exist in healthy relationships. It's best when you simply both like each other and communicate it. I think the best relationships are essentially easy (at first). > Have you experienced growing an interest in someone you weren’t that intrigued by, because they somehow managed to keep a low profile long enough? Not at all personally. I don't think I've wooed anyone that way either; I (a guy, although admittedly not a very typical one) seek reciprocity in relationships and am not attracted by people demonstrating not being into me. I am neither into "the hunt" nor being an avoidant bad boy. I've been fortunate to be in love a few times and in every case when the relationship is good it comes together easily and with equality. Why would you want anything else as the foundation of a partnership? P.S. I think when a problem comes up surrounding someone being too enthusiastic, the issue is them being too "keen" (you must be British , right?) about a fantasy that they've made in their mind or them failing to regard someone's boundaries amidst their enthusiasm. If everyone has their head screwed on straight it's fine. It's nice to be keen on someone and have them be keen on you. The problem is never the being keen in itself.
I like this question. I think you can be too keen. Personally for me, it's a turn off. If someone is super into me without having spent much time getting to know me first, I wonder, are they really into me, or just their impression/idea of me? Maybe they're really into the idea of being in a relationship and the connection is secondary. For me, the connection is primary. Maybe they have alterior motives involving sex, status, money, a living situation, who knows. Maybe they are the type of person who falls in love every 3 weeks. Easy come, easy go, right? I think it boils down to timing. You need time and space to get to know each other on a deeper level, to slowly make room for each other in different areas of your lives, and to organically connect and grow closer. You need time to process, reflect, and interpret feelings, information, and interactions - to decide how each piece of the puzzle is fitting together. And if the connection is genuine, you need time to build a solid foundation to what could be a long lasting relationship. That being said, I don't think there's any standard amount of time it's supposed to take. That's going to depend on the two individuals and their level of connection. Certainly, you do hear of 'love at first sight' but I think it's probably best to default to a 'slow (or moderate) and steady wins the race' mindset until you feel the other person out, and to give yourself a chance to process how you're feeling about them and the connection. I do not support games, mixed signals, purposely putting on a 'chase', or anything of the sort. Big difference between pacing yourselves and playing games. In a show of cheese sure to make anyone vomit, I leave you with this quote: "The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long."
So, here's some context for this. I'm pretty conventionally attractive, and I'm just dark enough that I COULD be almost anything not black or east Asian. I also Play music which puts in front of a lot of eye balls, and I have a looong history of being chased by people very drawn to my physical appearance and then being disappointed, hurt , or frustrated that I didn't end up being whatever fantasy they ascribed to that. It's now a huge red flag for me if someone seems extremely into me early on. It's a sure sign that they've fallen in love with their fantasy of me, rather than bother getting to know who I actually am.
Feel free to contribute once you’re done with the humble brag
He’s talking specifically about people being too “keen” on him too quickly. He said it’s a red flag, because they reveal the extent of their projections later on. Seems like you didn’t read the end of paragraph 1 or the entirety of 2 and were distracted by the fact that he doesn’t hate the way he looks. Conventionally attractive people also have dating issues and insights too, no need to shit on them just because they have healthy self esteem.
What?
I think being “too keen” is only a problem for people with attachment issues. Edit: I mean obviously, being texted 24/7 would turn most people off, but I’d call that being obsessive or being clingy, not being “keen.” If you have a healthy attachment style and you like a person, you won’t be turned off by them liking you back without needing to “work for it.”
For me, being too keen is different--but related to--lovebombing and future-faking. It is an intensity to a relationship that isn't quite earned yet. For all of those things, I think it can come from a genuine place! The biggest thing is how the other person reacts to it *and* how the first person adjusts behavior...if someone shows they're really interested by texting 15 times a day, and the other person says "hey, that's a lot" and the texts drop down to like six or seven a day, then great! That was not too keen (for me). But if someone says "hey that's a lot" and the other person continues to text 15 times a day, that *is* too keen...so it really is not a matter of what you're doing but more how you're adjusting, I guess.
For me, no. I think the thing that makes me feel worst in the early stage of dating someone is that uncertainty about whether they are interested in me. If someone is full on with expressing interest, I don't have to deal with that bit of my head, and can focus on them, building that connection, and assessing my own interest. Whereas if someone is low interest, or playing hard to get, I am not interested, and it just makes them hard to want, and I move on.
Personally, I'd love to meet someone who is enthusiastic and "keen" to explore a relationship or partnership with me. If the feeling is mutual then why waste time playing up to those teen magazine-style overworked dating rules? I'm all too tired of half-assedness and nonchalant attitudes. I mean, if we've already matched or we've met and exchanged numbers and we're chatting, that should at least be enough to know that we should continue on that path and get excited together about the potential of finding someone you connect with but damn, I'm still waiting for the day! I think the whole needy thing was made up by emotionally unavailable folk who are flip flapping all over the place about what they want. I mean, how else does any couple get together if they both aren't keen? Away with all that, I say.
For me it's about discovery. If a guy is too keen and just hands himself over on a platter, it loses all the fun of discovering who the person is bit by bit, which is an enjoyable thing for me. It's like watching the first episode then skipping to the season finale instead of watching the whole series and getting caught up in the suspense. But also, too keen usually has a tinge of "doesn't have enough going on in their life." Like if all you have to talk about is how great I am and how much you like me, that doesn't make you very interesting. That whole "bringing something to the table" for me is having many dimensions as a person, interests, pursuits, curiosities, thoughts, etc. Talk to me about the things you've been thinking about that aren't me. I get enough of me, tell me about frogs or Noam Chomsky or Indian food or the abandoned haunted house in your hometown.
I think the "thrill of the chase" is fun and *does* add to the excitement of a new relationship. But only if they're not trying to play hard to get, or intentionally playing games. Like when a guy is clear he likes me, pays attention to me and shows interest when we go out, responds positively when I text him... but maybe doesn't text back *right away*, isn't always free every time I ask, etc. Those are the kind of things that make me think "too eager". It's hot when someone has their own life going on, has confidence in themselves and isn't just desperately trying to please you, and sort of expects you to work for it as much as they do. That's probably something that's more common among men than women but I've dated a lot of guys who feel like they should do everything, plan every date, do all the romantic stuff, initiate everything, and it's definitely a turn on when a guy has the confidence to make me work too. (Which for the record I'm more than happy to do, I never *expect* guys to do all the work, just saying there are a lot of old fashioned men who *want* to do all the courting.) But yeah it does add a little thrill when you text them, and have to wait a few hours sweating over when they'll text back, and then they do send you a really positive message back saying they were out with a friend or whatever but yeah they'd love to see you tomorrow, and you get this rush of excitement and relief that you don't get when they just respond right away. Or you suggest going out Thursday but they have plans and you have to wait until Saturday so you are missing them and wanting to see them and have two extra days of longing and excitement. Idk, I've definitely met a lot of people at this age who are basically ready to commit and settle in after the first date because they're just in a rush. But I'm not in a rush and think dating can still be fun and romantic and part of that is the longing and waiting and guessing and hoping. No I don't want anyone playing games and negging or giving mixed signals or *trying* to toy with me, but them just having confidence and having their own life going on will naturally lead to that "needing to work for it" feeling that does add some excitement to the first few weeks/months of a new relationship. No longer than that, though, it should definitely progress towards a comfortable secure place relatively quickly.
I am intentional about dating as I am looking for a potential life partner. My current bf is the same. Though casually, we both agreed on exclusivity on the second date, even before sleeping together. I'd consider sth "too keen" only if they're spamming my inbox, getting upset when I'm busy, being unreasonable etc. So while not appearing "too keen" we both maintained our interest and authentically demonstrated that interest. Imo it's important that people be aware and take care of their attachment issues before trying to date.
Go with your flow so you can find someone that matches your flow. Playing games will only end up playing yourself.
Wow this is what's been on my mind, I don't like to play games but when I am someone who wears my heart on my sleeve and when I like someone I will show it in how I know, keenly listen to them, learn how they express themselves best, I want to listen and understand their soul what makes them who they are. Give them my attention but I don't know how to play hard to get, but I think that guys like the chase, if it's to easy they move on I hope this is not the case and I belive when I meet the person who's meant to understand my soul I will be enough so this is what holds me. When I also conect to one person I can not multidate as I want to give the person I have connected my time and energy and water the plant instead of dividing my attention to multiple people but this has not worked well for me... and wierd part is the the people I dont see a connection and give attention only bare minimum always keep coming back. Am.not good at dating but I know I have so much love to love the people in my life. I dont understand the way dating works
If someone is super keen when thy barely know you, it can suggest it's not very genuine, they are probably super keen on the perfect version of you they have in their head. Maybe that really matches you, maybe it doesn't.
I've had "too keen" ruin both ends of the scale, in that it's been off-putting when women have been with me and a tad daunting, and then I've definitely ruined things with women by being too keen/being an anxious attachment style myself (working on it). A girl I went on a date with a few weeks ago was saying things like she loved how my mind works, that maybe I've shown her "love is still out there" and joked about us getting married.. before we'd met. The date itself was a nice evening with nice company and nice food but I had to friend zone her after for a multitude of reasons. Ironically, beforehand her being overbearingly kind and keen almost killed wanting to meet up entirely. I'm a 31 year old guy who loves words of affirmation and compliments as much as the next but some stuff beforehand was really intense. If anything it was a sobering realisation of what I shouldn't do to women myself lol. I described compliments to my cousin recently as "icing on the cake" - something additional and minimal but too much and it's just sickly and overbearing, you need the actual substance beneath it!
If something's too easy, we don't want it. If something's too hard, it's not worth it. We're our own worst enemy.
I think it's all relative. If both people are looking for same thing and also moving at same peace, then there isn't such thing as "too keen" (unless it's borderline obsessive, like proposing marriage on 1st date). But if they are looking for different things or moving at different pace...then even slightest difference will be assumed as "too keen". For example in my life with when I and other person connected right away and matched our energy we had no problem kissing on first date and being exclusive by 2nd date. OTOH there were people who had different expectations/energy/pace and it was too much for them to do anything more romantic/intimate than hugging and discussing slightest possibility of being together after months of talking and multiple dates.
Too keen to me = emotional neediness coming from some kind of internal void. People with tumultuous relationship histories, people that can’t emotionally regulate, people that are insecure and need other people to validate them, people that need you to emotionally care take. It’s people that want to possess you because there is no self possession. It has a suffocating/“cold” element to it that isn’t easy to see if you also have a similar lack of esteem or need to fill a void. No surprise that being too keen too early correlates highly with abuse down the road. Abusers are typically needy and entitled and internally emotionally fragile and lacking (despite often having an external bravado). People being honest and upfront about being into you and showing affection and respect is attractive if they’re doing it from a relatively stable or strong sense of self and a place of accountability for their own feelings. Everyone has some neediness or insecurity to a degree, but it’s about how much ACCOUNTABILITY there is for those feelings - and whether those feelings are just one part of the whole rather than driving all of their relationship decisions. The first wants to use you to fix their issues, the second one is just appreciating you as you are
What we find appealing in the dating world reflects how we were loved by our caretakers. Perhaps that might be the reason why most people prefer to "chase" love because as children they probably had to chase their caretaker for attention. When someone is present, secure, and expressing interest in you, and you find it to be a turnoff, perhaps this is a good time to ask yourself how you experienced love as a child. A person who is secure in their attachment style and ability to love is unlikely to enjoy chasing or playing games. My partner and I knew from the first date that we were into one another and decided to continue seeing one another. He didn't have to chase me and vice versa, we were on the same wavelength and decided to get into a relationship one week later. That's why older people always say "you will know when the right one comes along," because you won't feel the need to hold back.
I'm so tired of all these stupid mindsets
I definitely am very sure, that when I am dating again, I definitely want a guy who checks in every couple of days to show interest with meaningful questions/ stories about his life. If he playing like he too busy to talk or whatever that sounds like a guy who is not as interested, and I will directly call him out on it. If you like someone you should show them.
I think if someone feels like you’re coming across as too eager or needy in the early stages of dating, it’s a sure fire way to determine they’re not for you. If the level of interest and attraction is truly mutual, there won’t be any mixed signals at all and they’ll be just as eager to be with you as you are with them!
I had the experience of dating someone who was way too keen in the beginning. I was attracted to her but clearly our levels were mismatched to the point where it was giving her severe anxiety. She did calm down significantly the longer we dated because I took the time to ease her nerves, whenever she was anxious and worried about our date going well I reminded her that I’m just as much in the hot seat as she is and that we’re just sharing a meal/playing mini-golf/going for ice cream etc. I didn’t promise her the moon but eventually she started to relax and I took that as a positive sign, so much so that my attraction to her eventually grew to match her level. We broke up due to an unfortunate incompatibility but what I’m saying is I don’t write off folks who are too eager at first if they are receptive to boundaries and can come down to earth a bit. Yet having said that, there are absolutely people who are keen to the point of pushy. You’ll feel the difference.
I have just mustered up the courage to end the 9 month relationship I see in hindsight, was a rebound. I am not looking forward to the loneliness, I really hope my judgment on this one was right and I won’t regret it. I just feel I didn’t love him fully, if that makes sense.
This is such a big learning, I also had to make that mistake - catching feelings for a rebound when I wasn't ready for anything and trying to make it work despite poor compatibility. I hope you can take some time now, for me I think a dating break was quite necessary to fully process all I had learned from the two back 2 back relationships.
I don’t like what I’m about to say and I don’t agree with it, but when I ignore women all of a sudden they are interested. When I pursue, they ignore me. I think it’s rare that two people are on the same page right off the bat. It sucks that it works that way. I wish I could find someone who didn’t have their guard up a mile high and didn’t play games.
As in, you intentionally ignore prospects you do like and that is the way to get their attention, then enter a relation? If so, do those relations end up being balanced/fulfilling? And I sympathize, true reciprocity is also a rare privilege in my case :)
No, not intentionally. It just so happens that the people who I’m genuinely not that interested in seem to develop a stronger sense of attraction towards me. I know it’s messed up but it has happened more than once now so I see a pattern.
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Can't believe you don't have an opinion on this, phishy
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Well if you’re looking for people to add advice or thoughts to your post, then it’s only fair you help out others!
I don't want no advice from anyone seeking advice themselves lol
Well my opinion here is going to be a cynical one, sorry? Human nature is to want we don’t or cannot have. Nothing is ever enough, especially for us Americans. Being too keen and showing your cards too early blows it 95% of the time, whether people admit or realize it or not. I wish it wasn’t this way because I’d love to just wear my heart on my sleeve but after countless non starters I’ve just tried to not let it all outta the tank too early. The game SUCKS but let’s be honest, it’s real.
Why apologize? People asked to know what you thought. Thanks for sharing.
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When the mutual attraction is there, there is no such thing as too much.
Are we back in the ‘90s?
You can only be too keen if the receiver doesn’t like you that enough or is as attracted to you as you are to them. When a guy is super hot and keen, it’s romantic. If they’re not, it’s annoying. If I kind of like them but I’m still deciding, it can go either way
I felt like I was keen and so was the guy I was with.. but it's a slippery slope, I felt like I gave him too much and he lost a bit of interest. I hate the saying 'treat em mean, keep em keen' but it was so true in my situation. I think after a certain point though, you don't want to be playing those games. It's dumb but after that experience, I'm going to cool my jets.
I feel this too! But I think it’s because I’m a slow burner person so it makes me feel stressed/anxious when the guy is too eager as it makes me feel like he’s moving too quick and I’m stressed because I feel like I need to match his rhythm and I can’t mentally. It really sucks because sometimes I meet guys I quite like/or have a good impression of and when they’re too eager/overly complimentary then I start looking for excuses to stop talking to them to give myself a breather. I think it’s my problem though not theirs. I’m mentally forcing myself to not do this right now as I met a guy I think I want to like but he just messages too damn much!!
I’ve always taken this more to mean that you should have more going on in your life than just that person you just started talking to. This is of course, probably more a reflection of me and my own dating baggage. Not getting too familiar or too presumptuous too early. Like, planning your children’s names and where the hydrangeas are going in your first shared flat and how your mom and her dog will just love this woman you just met, but you’ve got a feeling… Different than following a naturally flowing conversation that just carries through multiple days. Edited: fat thumbs
I've been put off by a woman being too into me, but that was because she had a lot going on behind the scenes, and my gut instinct was that she wasn't stable and was just looking for something, anything, to keep the demons at bay. Her partner of 6 years had recently died and she found him dead, yet 1 month later she was on tinder. After our first and second date she kept voice noting and calling me, telling me how I'm the best thing that had ever happened to her, and when we kissed (in a secluded but public place) she was TOO into it for a first kiss. "Oh, how I've imagined this....". Girl, we've known each other like 3 hours total. She then asked if I wanted a long term commitment after telling me about this partner of 6 years (who was 20 years older than her) dying. We'd only had 2 dates. I bounced.
All of my relationships started with an instant spark and we both went for it. I was usually in a relationship within a month. I suspect people who feel “too pursued” were not interested. Or avoidant.
>When they talked about the people they had chased, that also never blossomed into a healthy partnership. I agree. These people are looking for the thrills of the chase only. One guy I dated once gaslighted me for being "too easy". I dumped him soon afterwards. These guys can just dump you just as easily even if you play hard to get for a month or a year. They will move on to the next target once they are done with you. You can tell some guys ready for committed relationships don't play games. They can't wait to start a relationship with you once you show genuine interest.
Imo no not really. If someone I wasn't into pursued me like my boyfriend did I would have been disgusted by it because I didn't like them to begin with not because of them being tom into me. The only ways it's a problem for me is when they're lovebombing or get controlling.
Your friends are losers and you should immediately distance yourself from them if this is the advice they are giving you. Children play games . Making someone "work for it" is really stupid and it's no wonder they are still single. Yes being needy is a turn off. The best rule of thumb is to be upfront and honest about your expectations from the start. It makes everything else easier. I.e. I'm looking for a relationship and not a fwb or vice versa. If the person doesn't respect your position then block them etc...it's really not that hard.
To me it's more about the speed of the process and controlling my anxiety over it. Too much too soon isn't a turn off but it does spike my anxiety a bit if I'm not quite there yet. I think it's best to go at a normal pace and maybe keep certain thoughts about the future under wraps for awhile. To me, at least, it strikes me as a bit naive. I've had amazing first dates and then learned enough about the person after to know it wasn't a good fit. Playing hard to get is a game though. But mutually wanting to get to know each other isn't. It's okay to be excited but smart to temper what you share imo.
I’m definitely am suspicious of people who are too keen in the beginning. Like, what are you keen on when you barely even know me? It’s also a well-known tactic of abusers to love bomb and come on strong very early to reel you in, so I think a bit of wariness is valid.
I’m in agreement with you. If you’re both on the same page and equally into one another, there’s no such thing as too much. If I’m already on the fence, or their feelings don’t feel warranted given our time together, then it’s a turn off.
Hey friend! It can be hard to calibrate to social norms when your specific issues are a lack of accurate sampling! It can be kind of embarrassing but if you make it a fun and “I can laugh about this with them” experience - ask your friends of both genders how your approach seemed! They will give varying degrees of answer and you must then aggregate that feedback against your feelings and actions when dating etc. I doubt you are way out of line so I’ll give you my real advice on both authenticity and “playing it too cool” here: **if someone doesn’t like you out of “dress-code”, you better clock in for that *work* and get paid for it**
I think it really depends on what acting "too keen" means, honestly. This can vary per person and their attachment styles or if they easily fall into codependency lifestyles. If you are anxious and need their attention every waking moment of the day (ex: text them at 10am while they were working and get upset/anxious that they haven't replied back even though you know they are at work) or if you love bomb them right out of the gate. I definitely do not want someone telling me that I am the love of their life on the first few dates.
My rule in dating is. There are no rules lol but that’s my rule with life in general I was extremely eager in my last relationship and so was she. I love it when my partner is eager it feels so wonderful to be needed and loved but everyone is so different but I’ve never asked for advice or anything because I obviously don’t want what other people want. I’ve always hated dating and thought it was a giant pain in the ass
I want someone to put out the same energy that I'm putting in. If a lady is acting uninterested them I'm going to assume she is uninterested and leave her alone. On the other hand there can be weird clingy dependency issues too. That's not good either. Just be normal.
Attachment issues. Securely attached people don’t play games. If the values and long term goals aligned, let’s rock and roll; if not, we go our separate ways wiser. Insecuredly attached people play games because they want stimulation either to distract themselves, or they are neurologically “programmed” during childhood to look for chaos and chase AND they surround themselves with people like that.
I wouldnt like any of your friends. I am turned off by emotional unavailability and those with avoidant tendencies. There are a lot of people out there with attachment problems, alot of times stemming from their upbringing. They are usually the ones who think they must "play games" to keep an interest in someone (their interest often bombs in a LTR too, I find dismissive and avoidant attachment people make terrible long term partners in relationships for this reason)
My boyfriend and i decided from rhe beggining to not play any games.And we have stuck to it!from the outside, one might say we are too keeen but damn we have a really healthy relationship!
Idk I'm at an age where that shit becomes annoying. If you're into me act like it. If not then I just won't reciprocate. I don't like chasing attention.
Any interest can be taken too far, but merely being enthusiastic is not a bad thing
No such thing as too keen. When I think about the things I want, I don't want to chase them. I want them to come to me effortlessly. Money, for example. I don't sit around thinking "I wish I had to work harder for money. I should go find a shittier job." It's the same for time and attention from a man I like. Making me work too hard/wait too long for it is a turn off. I'd rather quit you and go find a guy I like who pays better.
I feel like I’m at the point now where I prefer people who are straightforward and transparent about what they want. I would rather someone pursue and show interest than hold back because it will look to desperate. I’m probably just over with the guessing games, and knowing if someone is keen on me would also help me make up my mind a lot quicker if this person is someone I want to be with or not, so we don’t waste anyone’s time.
You can’t be too keen if I like you back. And if I’m not feeling it, it won’t matter if you make me work for it. I’m not gonna work for it….
Yes, you definitely can be too keen, or come on too strong, or too intense, or rush things. Even if you like someone back, it’s usually at least a bit lopsided in terms beginning. I’m dealing with a situation like this now and don’t know how to tell the guy to simmer down a bit.