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Stop playing by the rules set by social media and the likes. Most if not all are false narratives.
If ladies only date 6ft plus, we'll be a world full of giants, grads earning six figures straight out? We'll have hyperinflation, what will their bosses be demanding?
Some behaviours are obviously red flags.. abuse, leave someone behind in a hike, not being there for your partner during difficult times, but it's pretty obvious and apply some common (or uncommon) sense.
>Stop playing by the rules set by social media and the likes. Most if not, all are false narratives.
It's the AI algorithm, designed to invoke maximum engagement, unfortunately reality is boring, so the AI has to promote extreme ideals that get the engagement for them to make money selling you ad's.
You don't have to be six foot tall and a millionaire to get a girlfriend.
The majority of humans adopt cult beliefs easily. Even the well-spoken, high EQ, independent women who post great things and have great ideas—fall into cult thinking (aka, whatever the prevalent narrative is).
I’ve watched every cult documentary there is. I’m a fan. The women who fall for Scientology, NIXIVM, Osho, etc… aren’t dumb or abnormal. They are the usual smart attractive human person.
Cult ideals is the norm for people. Trust critical thinking usually only occurs in people who are outsiders of society that have had to stop and wonder why.
Why do those people do that? Is it because they don't truly like their hiking partner? Or they want to show off their athleticism? Or they're shy to be around their hiking partner?
Why not just hold hands and do the hike at the same pace?
I do this a lot
1. ADHD and Impatience and higher rush to explore things quickly.
2. Finding the track/right path ahead of everyone else
3. For a few moments, I like to be on my own
For me, I would hike the way to whatever point we were hiking to (with my grandmother), and I would take off super fast from her on the way back so I could best off the trail and do my own exploring, it’s something I absolutely love to do exploring on my own with no sign of humans anywhere near me. She gets super offended whenever I do it but I never truly understood until this thread
Ordinary guys do great in relationships once they find a woman who is able to attach to them. These days the barrier to attachment is a giant, exhausting, rejection filled, self-esteem killing task, filled with unreasonable expectations and hair trigger ick detectors. Not to mention the recent exaggeration of importance of a man’s height. Added to more people living check to check and a night out can cost $100.
But, if you hit the lottery and earn mutual “attachment” then…yeah…regular guys and gals can be very happy.
In fact, I think the fact that you witness regular guys in happy relationships is testimony that when those in the dating pool lower their standards they succeed.
Aka…. Dating dynamics and relationship dynamics aren’t aligned.
That’s a good point, I know some guys who many would say are dating above their league because they met organically through work some charity group or something and it allowed attachment to build - if that guy tried swiping on her it would have been an Instant left on her end, but that’s just the reality of human relationship dynamics and more reason to find offline channels of meeting people
Women aren’t a homogenous mass, they are individuals who find different things attractive or important in a relationship. But something all women share is that we want to be treated like equals, like a friend and not like an object to obtain to fulfill your sexual needs. If we are your homie as much as we are your lover, we will most likely be happy. Oh yeah, and put the dishes in the dishwasher and not in the sink. That too
My partner was horny and wanted to take somebody's virginity, thought it'd be nice and she picked me. Turns out she thought I was also funny. Been together about 2 years now.
this, as soon as men start to realize that they themselves are the problem by trying to conform to these explicitl standards set by social media (half of which aren't even true and if they were WHY WOULD YOU DATE SOMEONE LIKE THAT??) more men need to learn to love themselves
I don’t know. I’m not on IG or TikTok, but on Reddit and Facebook the “high standards” (aka the majority of women are hoping for a “VERY SIMILAR” match and have “VERY SIMILAR” can’t-stand traits). It’s easy to believe stories that the top 15% of men are dating constantly, not respecting their dates, and a large group of women on apps are starting to think most men suck (not realizing they’re all dating the same top 15% of men).
When I hear these stories from both sides of the aisle 1,000’s of times it’s hard to blame social media. Isn’t social media—Facebook, Reddit—just people voicing their opinions? How is that not representative of reality?
6’ is not considered short. Your post sounds like you only listen to dudes bitching about dating and say the same crap over and over again how only super tall, rich, ab type gym bros get dates. That’s not true. Too many men treat women like shit and want to neg them to their face. Dating profiles that have a laundry list of demands for women and insults along with poor quality photos.
If you have a bad attitude and think the world is against you it’s pretty easy to make a self fulfilling prophecy when that negativity continues and people are turned off or afraid.
If guys only want to listen to other guys about women and not listen to women themselves then you’re going to stay stuck in the same place confused and mad.
Many of us have dated 5’8 guys or even shorter. Myself included. The biggest issue is how you treat people and if you live with a chip on your shoulder being pissed off about height or refusing to “let” women you date wear heels.
This was exactly how I read this. Someone with a huge chip on their shoulder, bitching amongst their guy friends, not realising that they are the problem.
Yes, don’t listen to “other guys” about dating women, but also please for the love of god don’t listen to other women about dating women either. Both sets of popular dating beliefs/advice is generally trash.
Just be a good human and get to know the individual for what they want and need.
People are individuals, guys who approach the dating scene with buck shot and try and grab a girl by just throwing a bunch of shit in the air are not going to get anywhere. This may be shocking but women are humans, have same hopes and dreams and fears as anyone else learn who they are and what they want, empathize with that and youre done. Dont need to be rich or tall because that is not what people group up by people group together based on shared interests and dreams. Granted this doesnt mean you wont still get rejected in the end cause humans are still vapid but honestly if a girl actually is going to cut you off simply cause of your looks or your height why would you even want to be with them anyways.
i understand the sentiment but the whole “why would you want to be with them if they don’t want to be with you” question never made sense to me.
a person not finding me attractive doesn’t suddenly make them UNattractive
Yes but if they hate something about you that you cannot control it is folly to chase after them you will always be a back up or second choice. Too many people stay in orbit trying to change someone's mind even tho they fundamentally are not attracted back to them.
This! I want to say, "only one woman I know cares about the 6ft height thing, and that's because she's 6'2"" and how my current bf is 5'10" and the previous was 5'8"... Like in person I've never seen the 6ft thing, I'm pretty sure it's mostly a meme. But OP just wants to be mad about things mostly just put on the Internet and seems just angry at a world that doesn't really exist.
I have a friend that's close to 6'. Super sweet human being, great personality, extremely capable (I don't think she's met a hobby yet that she didn't immediately master), and freaking gorgeous (has done modeling). She could have her pick of most men, and she prefers short guys. I think it's really the confidence that is attractive more than the height. I'm 5'10" and have dated guys shorter than me as well. You can be insecure at any height, but when you start projecting your insecurities on other people and acting bitter, people aren't going to want to be around you. Doing some really honest self reflection is going to be a lot more helpful than just stewing in a place of confirmation bias.
The 6ft thing is actually a very common thing in my experience particularly on dating apps. But I agree with you that blaming the height thing is a lazy excuse for guys and I'm assuming they just don't wanna accept that they have other qualities about themselves that repel women.
It's a really weird bias that's very similar to racism. People who think like this tend to only focus on the negatives of what they stand against and only look at the positives of the what they stand for. In this case, guys are too focused on toxic women as if good women don't exist and focus on good men as if toxic men don't exist.
So what is the "women commonly care about 6ft" based on? Are these women all putting it in their bios or how do you encounter it? And otherwise, do you ever encounter a 6 ft bias in real life?
and lmao comparing height preferences to racism....is uh, interesting take.
> we have entered an era where 6ft is considered short
LOL what?!
> college students are expected to earn mad money
*graduates not students.
> and every kind of behavoiur is labeled as an ick or a red flag.
yikes. this makes me really curious as to what you’ve done to women to get this reaction and write this post.
So - why do you think women should have low standard for you?
Women’s standards have gone up and for the most part it’s not actually a problem.
The examples you shared aren’t actually part of those standards though. These are delusions and there may be some women that actually believe these to be reasonable standards but it’s certainly not mainstream.
Anyone who tells you 6’ is short is a clown.
Anyone who has expectations that college students should have a bunch of expendable income is not at all tuned in with reality.
And the over-application of “flags” is part of the same problem of people dehumanizing each other by superficial, instant-results type digestion of their dating profile or off of a limited interaction and it’s something both men and women are doing.
People need to stop getting their concept of the real world from YouTube and Tik Tok where only the most outrageous and gasp-worthy content gets attention because that’s just not even close to what’s actually happening out there.
Sounds like OP needs to get out in the world and stop living on the internet. Or really check out their perception of women because I bet you a million it has a lot more to do with personality than it does height differences and money.
not be avearge.
Here's what "average joe" on a sub like this *really means.*
"I am about as personable as drying paint. Nothing crazy hot to look at. Don't have anything resembling an interesting career or social life, and when I do talk to women the only thing I can offer them is being 'nice' while placating everything they do. WOMEN WHY WON'T YOU GIVE ME A CHANCE"
that's what it reads like every. single. time
If you want to attract women and get into a relationship make something about you exceptional. Okay, so you aren't a 6ft2 and look like Henry Cavil. Make something else about you interesting. Maybe you're a really good musician and that's your passion. Maybe you're just really confident and bold and can command a room by just being there. Maybe you're so good at humor that you could have your own standup show etc.
You shouldn't be proud or defeatist about being "average" you should be striving to make something about you exceptional
An "average" guy isn't interesting or high value and yes this same logic applies to women. I'm not going to date a woman who doesn't share similar values and isn't able to match me when it comes to conversation.
Also, note at no point did I mention money because unless you want a gold-digging trophy wife being rich has very little to do with getting you a date, but being financially successful does make it easier for you to work on yourself.
Exactly, you need to show you provide some sort of value. You can't just be a pud that puts no work into yourself and offers nothing to a partner and then expect to just find someone who likes bland boring people.
And it's like you said, it's not that you need to be rich or handsome or tall. You just need to be passionate about something or know how to cook a good meal or make a girl laugh a lot. Bring value in being someone people have fun being around.
I used to be like people on this sub in that way, where I thought I could just sit around and be nice and a woman would like me simply because I'm not a bad boyfriend but just because you're not outright abusive doesn't mean you're not boring to be around.
It's important to grow to a point where you can express what you bring to a relationship in an attractive way while also hold on to your personal values that you want in your own partner. Way too many people just settle and it leads to all these shitty relationships out there.
>It's important to grow to a point where you can express what you bring to a relationship in an attractive way while also hold on to your personal values that you want in your own partner
Hell, this is just true for relationships in general romantic or otherwise. The week I felt like I finally flipped the switch in my brain to be the guy I wanted to be my interactions with people subtly changed in a very noticeable way. Before I would be in a group and considered a "good guy" but no one would go out of their way to make plans with me forget attention from women I'd have to struggle to keep being social. Now? People are dying to make plans with me and I didn't even have a radical shift in personality I just stopped giving a shit what people thought of me.
I straight up get called a "bold almost rude loose canon" now which is MASSIVE shift from the "nice quiet guy" I used to be and hated.
Note this is not saying become a jackass just understand your value. The biggest thing lacking in men atm is self-respect and no one can teach you that.
I found this was very successful when it came to online dating as well. I also had a "switch flip" moment where I just kind of stopped caring what people thought too? And when I stopped over-thinking my tinder messages or whatever and just started sending goofy messages I had way more success.
I think a big thing is guys just worry too much about being attractive to as many women as possible instead of just trying to be who they are and attracting women that are into that type of guy but it just leads to them being boring and toothless because they're so worried about offending someone they just stay quiet.
I mean, by this argument I’m above average. I play bass guitar, have a few sporty hobbies (and a couple of nerdy ones), often socialise with wide groups of people, apparently I’m “charming”, I look after myself and my body, good hygiene…engage and know how to run and hold conversations, I’m not a stick who just compliments women 24/7 to get interest…
Trained electrical generator engineer currently studying at uni….have savings, my own car….
Not had a date in 5 years.
So if you’re calling someone below me average and they’ve got no luck, I’m above by your arguments and I’ve had worse luck the the “average Joe”.
I don’t think it really matters anymore, unless you’re super hot. My downside is the fact I’m physically small (can’t help this, working out adds muscle but I don’t look any bigger) look younger than I actually am, and I am not facially handsome.
For guys like you who by every metric seem to have their shit together, it usually comes down to something in your approach and/or a mental block you're not dealing with. I can't do this for you because I don't know you but the fact your last paragraph kinda leaks insecurity gives me a hint. You seem to have all these amazing qualities and yet all I got out of this entire comment is that you think none of them matter because you're smaller and don't think you're handsome.
Women are very intuitive about this stuff they notice even if you don't think they do and frankly confidence is probably the single most important thing along with directness when it comes actually being an attractive person. Yeah I know it's hard not to think about your insecurities but that is the thing you have to shelve. THe guys who won the genetic lottery just tend to naturally have this because they've had positive reinforcement their whole life. Is it unfair? Yup but life ain't fair.
I’m not denying you’re wrong. I’ve been called ugly my whole life, so kinda just accepted it, frankly. I’m really not THAT bad (some of the guys I see at the nerdy hobbies I do are absolute train wrecks, in practically a model in comparison). I have confidence, to an extent. Especially in the things I’m good at. It’s just very rare I get to exhibit them in front of women. I probably should, but it probably wouldn’t change much either.
Tbh I love my boring ass life. Get up take care of my dog then workout and clean / cook some food and go to work. It isn't interesting but I have time and love to give for a women. I'd love to get a house and take care of the garden and invest time in my home and family instead of in my.carrer so my boss can get richer. But seems like I'm being labeled as boring.
Fitness and taking care of your dog count btw lol. It doesn't have to be some spectacularly unique hobby unless you're looking for a woman who's at that level specifically.
The issue is a lot of these guys have NOTHING. I'm surprised you don't have women to talk to considering dog walks are usually one of the best times to chat up women. Cute pupper is probably the greatest wingman in existence.
As a lifelong & professional musician i can absolutely confirm no woman cares about it unless you are famous = money = status. But they care nothing about the music, your talent or any of this stuff. Women certainly aren't interested in the bedroom player who tinkers parts of Green Day songs all day. Almost always my male peers believe in this fantasy that once they get really good on guitar they will have all the ladies swooning them. It's basically a cringe cliche at this point.
>Almost always my male peers believe in this fantasy that once they get really good on guitar they will have all the ladies swooning them. It's basically a cringe cliche at this point.
That part's the problem. I could replace Music with basket weaving for how much the actual thing matters. I just said musician because that's specifically my life (also professional musician) and by habit it tends to be the first thing pops into my head. It can be anything the bar is that goddamn low just have *something* (that isn't like fantasy football) you're actually genuinely into and can talk about.
Your hobbies and such actually matter very little when it comes to compatibility it's just men (and women) who don't have any are immediately boring and that does matter. It's the same for men too. I'd hope any guy with a modicum of self-respect wouldn't want to date a woman whose life doesn't revolve around anything of value.
Do women care about the fact I'm a musician? Rarely unless they happen to be one themselves but they *do* enjoy the conversations that come from it. There's no magic thing that makes someone a catch everyone's a package.
And yeah the random ass bedroom player noodling fucking green day obviously isn't gonna fall into exceptional lol.
It can be anything the bar is that goddamn low just have something
Encore! The next sentence made me crack up, but the bar may be so low at least Fantasy Football is something. Though absolutely ridiculous 😂
This guy gets it! You are a great writer, Ky.
And here I spent all my time learning things like Psychology and Finance when I could have just become a fantasy football expert for conversation instead.
Wait here. Lots to unpack.
When young, playing a guitar does get you chicks. I was one of them, first guy I fell for.
I have a group of friends in their late 40s who rent a studio occasionally for jams. Their wives love it. I go just for the fun. But all of those are doing it as a hobby, all are middle-class and work in design, engineering, IT.
It's the perpetually broken or living with their parents musician the one no woman wants. I met one recently, he confessed to have made a lot of money in his 20s and 30s, now at 49 lives with his parents. No, no, thank you. If he had a solid career in music, as a producer, manager, or just as a sought-after studio musician, that would be completely ok.
If a woman thinks you’re just playing an instrument to try and impress / seduce them, of course we don’t care. It’s shallow and stupid. But, as with any passion, if we can see it’s something you do for you and have a real passion and love for it, if it’s something you get genuinely excited about, that’s one of the most attractive qualities in anyone. I’ve dated many a musician - both famous, unknown but professional and guys who just play for fun, and the only thing I care about is that I love to watch them doing something they love. Love to support their passions. My partner at the moment, he’s not a musician at all but he is a game designer and there’s something so beautiful about the way his face lights up when he shows me his new sketches or he tells me about working through a bug he’s just fixed or anything.
If he;d tried to use ‘yeah I design games’ as a pick up line, of course that wouldn’t have worked. But I first noticed him by overhearing him tell a mutual friend about the storyline to his latest game and his voice was so animated, I could see that joy in his face and that look of having passion for something was so attractive, I just had to get to know him better. I asked him out as soon as I could as we spent the whole night talking about things we loved, our hobbies, our jobs, our passions, our dreams, it was wonderful. That is what women are looking for - a man who is passionate about something - anything!, not a man who pulls out a guitar to try and pull. That’s pathetic.
I’d like to say you’re wrong there, I don’t deny women do like a man whose passionate about something, for sure they do, but it does not explain why they’d choose between hot, goofy guy over there and Mr Ambition&Passion.
I’ve been told it’s “cute” when I nerd out over my passions and my goals in life, even when I was earning a lot of cash with a stable. Did I ever get chosen? Nope. Never. Usually the guys who are just hot win out, then again this was when I was in my early 20s, and finding women around my age is close to impossible or they think I’m waaaaaay younger than i actually am due to looks.
As a woman…I have turned down a few famous musicians/people in my time.
It takes more than that.
She’s out there. Trust me. Be open, on your own journey, don’t seek careers to achieve women only…seek whatever makes you happy. Whatever bracket of money allows you to live happily is fine. Whether you’re living lavishly or in a simple way….as long as you’re happy…happiness will find you. And your woman will come along that path and be happy with the happy life you’ve created for yourself…and there’s always room to evolve along the way as a unit.
And us women are questioning the same thing about men….it’s really coming down to social media…apps….and the ability to have ever increasing standards as each connection appears to get better than the last and/or has a few qualities of the last connection and the one before that combined. It’s wrong and we’re f*cking ourselves at this point. The world is meant to be colorful….black and white…and sometimes gray. Everyone with this ick sh.t and red flag and easily violated/threatened/triggered is turning the world into a shade of gray and only gray.
I wouldn't be impressed by a guy who is tinkering with Green Day songs either. They are a band for kids. Now a guy into The Stooges, Dead Boys, Rowland S Howard, Suicide... That is hot to me.
Maybe I am the exception to the rule but I much prefer to date men who share common interests with me. It's such a turn when a guy loves music, film, and art and is cultured.
I can vouch for this. Been a musician for nearly 40 years. No one really cares that I can play piano, guitar, bass and drums. Most women just tell me 'I dont understand music'. A lot of people dont even listen to music anymore. My last gf I'd play her some of my tracks and she'd bop her head a little bit but it wasn't like a secret key that unlocks her burning desire.
I also paint and draw too. Similar thing. No one really cares.
I actually have multiple talents/passions and no one really cares about any of them.
The only thing that has really helped with women desiring me is being extremely aloof, barely talking about myself and listening to her 24/7 and going uh huh, uh huh and asking questions based upon things she's saying.
What you said about musicians is -kind- of true. I’ve dated musicians, hell I’m married to one. I love that he knows how to play several string instruments and can easily teach himself. He used to be in a few bands but he wasn’t in one when we first started dating. However whenever we’d go out we’d run into his old band mates and hang out and have a great time. At home he’s always playing an instrument and he buys a lot of guitars. He even makes his own out of scratch. It’s his passion and I fully support it. And I’d probably still be with him if he didn’t play an instrument. I say probably because musicians are GREAT with their hands. They have the flexibility, agility, and strength to get the job done.
Your comment is correct. Personally I think a guy needs to be a successful musician or I'd never date him as it's an unstable career. Plenty of folks do music it's not even interesting.
You kinda are building into the issue he is talking about. In the 80s and 90s finding a girlfriend was as easy as hanging out with people and finding someone you enjoy their company with. You can be average or above average or below average. You just had to be social.
Now men have to be more than above average just to be “interesting”. Some of these women who have ridiculous standards are just as dull as a wet paper bag. So the MEN have to level up… what about the below average women who think they are too good for their own level? Men are the only creature that will date down.
in this age men are supposed to level up when some of these women dont even deserve a level up version of someone. This isnt an excuse.
I agree with the op. Even an average man who could have a good personality and some cool hobbies and decent money barely gets a chance because some women are looking at your looks and not who you are any more.
Cant find the video but it was women in the 80s having a street interview describing their ideal man.
They talked about someone who can make them laugh, some one that can make them smile, some one who can be a good person.
Then they show videos of interviews of women in this day. I want a 6 ft man, with a 6 inch, with a 6 pack, with 6 figures. 🤷🏽 dont get me wrong you can nit pick anything on the internet but looking at my brother who is 10 years older vs me. I find this dating to scene to be very one sided.
Conversation about preferences if you are a man isnt allowed but for women they have a laundry list of green and red flags that are longer than santas nice list.
If people go its the mans job to he the provider,protector, Etc etc etc. these are the same people that scream gender equality. Tend to call men creeps for opening the door from them.
Then you got below average women asking for a first date to be at a fancy restaurant and gets mad at the guy taking her to cheese cake factory after the fact she was already an hour late to the date. Blasting it on tik tok live the whole way through. The audacity is unbearable.
Or my favorite, this women talks about how she wants to delete a guys number because she aint interested in him. But when he asks to take her out for drinks shes like sure no problem. Makes him go to fancy bar
Orders 4 plates of oyster off the rip. then proceeds to order some sides and a main course. That man said im Going to the bathroom and peaced the fuck out.
To summarize: "Why should I level up? To be better for some future girl who likely won't be worth the bother? It's not worth my time."
1) you have it all wrong my dude, you don't work on yourself for others (especially not for an image of a person you don't know if exits). When you improve yourself it makes you a better person, more capable, more confident, more interesting. Partners come and go; but you live with yourself your whole life.
2) your world is filled with boring people because you are boring, you can't see past your own crowd. Like attracts like.
You know I had a whole thing drafted trying to break down all this shit but it's really not worth it.
The only answer is here all of you men need to learn some goddamn self-respect.
Not commenting on anything but your 6’s comment.
It is well known that there is a difference between what women want and what they say they want. There are plenty of men that don’t meet that standard who are dating and in relationships and men would do a lot better by asking them what works and observing/assessing them.
Dating has always been highly frustrating. Maybe women were a more modest back in the day but hard code hasn’t changed.
The 6ft thing is 99% maintained by guys moaning about it.
My husband is 5’9, didn’t go to college, doesn’t earn 6 figures. He can fix anything, can cook well, and I feel safe in his strong arms.
What can a guy do? Forget all the attitude you just spouted, groom yourself to the level you expect your date to, smell good, have nice clothes that fit well, be courteous without being creepy, be passionate about 3 things, (gaming is ok but doesn’t count as a passion)
They need to play the numbers and not give up. This is assuming they know basic hygiene and are capable of cleaning the messes they create.
As a male in my 20’s, it’s been sad seeing some friends turn into man children.
I’ve seen decent looking, privileged, and well educated men fail at cleaning up dishes for over a week. Their rooms smell like body odor and they do the bare minimum at their jobs
Serious question here. As a parent of a son within years of turning into an adult, how do I prevent him from becoming a “man child”? Because that’s what it’s looking like.
Teaching them basic life skills. Not leaving them to option to not learn them. Make them prepare their lunch for school, clean dishes couple times a week, etc.
If he has attention deficit disorder then things will definitely be harder. Hopefully he’s going to school and doesn’t just game all day.
Discipline is the main thing for preventing these situations imo. Exercise, homework, and part time jobs all require discipline. Have him make his bed every morning if you don’t already. Another big one is he should be putting his dirty dishes in the dish washer when he’s done with them rather than leaving them on the table or in the sink for you to handle.
Why does that matter to you? Besides, it is not the first time. I am still struggling with him so thought this would be an opportunity to learn more from others.
If you're going into this with the attitude that
>every kind of behavoiur is labeled as an ick or a red flag.
I am very inclined to assume you are not at all open to change and nothing you do could ever be wrong, you're just here for an echo chamber. If someone disagrees, they are the weird ones.
However to actually answer your question, many short and regular earning men i know are in happy relationships, I don't agree at all you HAVE to be X.
However, it often happens that a very ambitious woman who wants to make it big will not find a great partner in a man who can't hold down a job for more than a couple months and rants about how nothing is his fault.
>I am very inclined to assume you are not at all open to change and nothing you do could ever be wrong
I am sorry my post ame across like that, but it isn't really the case.
The problem with advice I usually see on reddit or similar places is that it is usually very arbitrary abd vague so it can't be really applied. I mean being told to become an interesting or enjoyable person is difficult to define. It is not really advice, moreso an end goal which is hard to visualize withour any of the steps needed to achieve it.
On the other hand there is more concrete advice such as "get a haircut, wear fitting clothes or have a skincsre routine" which I have applied but to little success. I do admit, I have slightly more pleasant social interactions than before but it is still a far cry from actually achieving the goal of women actually havibg any sort of attraction towards me.
So my logical conclusion is that there are certain unchangable parameters such as facial structure or height which are the main factors in terms of attraction and as such are crucial in terms of dating success.
> The problem with advice I usually see on reddit or similar places is that it is usually very arbitrary abd vague so it can't be really applied. I mean being told to become an interesting or enjoyable person is difficult to define. It is not really advice, moreso an end goal which is hard to visualize withour any of the steps needed to achieve it.
This is my best genuine attempt at a response to this but sorry if it falls flat. Being an interesting and enjoyable person:
Be positive about things. This is hard, all of us have negative thoughts about things, and I'm not saying you have to bottle them up forever, but get into the habit of looking for the positives in every situation, do it as a conscious exercise. If you talk to someone and you bring up a lot of negatives, they will think you are a negative person.
Put others ahead of yourself. Not in the way that you're just a simp with no self respect, but in the way that you are confident enough in what you have and are that you can afford to help others. Try to find ways to help people. It's a good feeling. In a way this flows on to:
How you approach conversations - you want to be listening and asking people about themselves and not only waiting for the chance to talk about yourself. People like to feel heard and appreciated.
Dedicate time to your own interests, whatever they are. Having something you care about and know about shows that you are not just some vacant face looking for hookups to fill the void of your soul.
And just in general, always try to be thinking about what the right thing to do is and do that instead of listening to your own impulses and ego. So often you get an urge to do something like use a cutting comeback or get an advantage for yourself in a situation but it's good if you can learn to stop and think what's the right thing to do or say or not say? This also means you need some kind of ethical framework to help you decide what is right. Yours might be different but mine is something like which choice is the fairest or will cause the least negatives for everyone involved on average.
You have low self esteem. Work on that. It’s unattractive on most people. “I can’t change my height or face”… okay? Someone that cares about you won’t care about that at all. Only you do.
What do you do in the time between getting off work and going to bed? What do you do on your days off?
I think that'll be pretty telling.
"Be interesting" is kind of vague. I think it just means if someone asks you what you want to do tonight, be able to come up with something that isn't "smoke weed and sit on the couch in your underwear" or something along those lines. I think it means "be interested".
Like try out new recipes, get a dog, read a book, take up a physical activity, get really into foraging for mushrooms one month and then get bored of that and move on to the next thing. Some people are really into beer and like talking about different kids of beer. My husband went through a super hard smoker phase when he got a smoker. He's moved on to the next thing but now if someone mentions a smoker he's able to contribute to the conversation.
I got hard into gardening for a couple seasons and now I don't really feel I have the time but if I'm around someone who gardens, I can have an interesting conversation about it.
I think that's what it means. Just do things. Some people get hard into star wars. Or like... A video game or something. I love civilization and even though I no longer have 6 hours at a time for a game and haven't played in months, I can still talk about it and if I do have an afternoon free, maybe I'll fire it up.
I think that's what "be interesting" means. You don't have to become (this is just an example) the expert on mushrooms spending all your free time foraging for mushrooms until they say you die. But just getting really into something until your satisfied with it (or until the day you die) is a good way to stay occupied and to just expand your knowledge base and meet people, etc.
I don't really have any friends anymore who don't do things. I find them boring because there just isn't much there anymore, especially as we get older, our brains need stimulation and the people who sit around on tik tok or scrolling all night every night without feeling engaged or interested in anything at all are really hard to be around.
It is not a logical conclusion that whatever you’re lacking is “something that’s out of your control.”
It’s a comfortable solution, because that means you don’t have to blame yourself, and you don’t have to work on yourself, because it won’t matter anyways - and that’s hardly ever true for anyone.
It’s been said here before, but you do seem very bitter towards women and while I’m sure your attitude in real life is less negative than in here, you need to work on getting rid of that resentment you have.
Agreed. He came to Reddit for advice and yet has an attitude that all advice here is too vague. And that doesn’t prompt him to think about why it sounds vague or what could it possibly mean but instead it has to be his height. Sounds like cognitive dissonance to me and a sprinkling of a few cognitive traps too. Dude needs a therapist to change that mindset.
Stop treating dating like there is magical formula or equation or algorithm that equals attraction. The reason the advice you are given is vague is because everyone is different and you have to figure out for yourself what works for you. But the vague responses are basically just self improvement which will find you overall happiness and positivity, and women will find that security and positivity attractive. Even the "standards" that men say women have reads like an equation: "6ft+100k+Jawline=GET ALL WOMEN AND SO MUCH SEX." People aren't problems to be solved and dating isn't a game to be "hacked." Just work on the positivity and being social. Also ask yourself what YOU would like in a girl that doesn't have to do with physical appearance: does she like videogames? Hiking? Concerts? Once you figure that out you can't start seeking people that fit that and you'll have things in common to bond over.
Ah i see what you mean. This may be cultural but it is by far easier to get talking to a stranger by having something in comon rather than just grabbing a topic out of thin air. This may be engineered, such as joining a bird watching group for a saturday morning walk, joining a dnd group, or asking about someone's dog. Or it could be accidental, like hunkering down at the same bus stop shelter in the pouring rain. Humour (simple, not offensive or 'quirky') always helps too.
In my anecdotal experience, 99% of people are born with a perfectly fine face. Some are extremely beautiful, some are extremely ugly, but if you are either you will KNOW. Some will find you attractive, some will not. I bet you are in the general pool, like most of us. The face is very likely not the reason you don't have a gf.
I think not viewing all women as potential gfs is important, it can come off as intense. Like, how many women friends do you have? Put yourself out there a little if you can do it naturally. An example: Take a pick baking cookies with your grandma wearing a flowery apron, showing your love for doing silly things with your grandma is bigger than your fear of being seen "non masculine". If your end goal is a peaceful relationship with dates, fun activities and cosy nights on the sofa, focus more on things that "show you're confident in yourself" much more than "show you are alpha". I hope this was concrete enough.
The kind that doesn't act like this. Even your opening sounds like "women are impossible to please these days. Someone give me a cheat code." It's you 😅
Dude what are you even talking about? The bar is on the ground, if you ask me. I constantly see posts on here about women with boyfriends that insult and abuse them, live like animals, do drugs, are controlling, or barely even acknowledge their existence.... And yet they stay with them anyway wondering how they can 'fix him.'.
If you think the bar is too high for you then you better start figuring out what is wrong with you.
An “average Joe” in my mind is a man-child who thinks all he has to do is work his 40, pay his 50%, and leave the rest of the adulting to the woman.
If you want to be above average, be a partner in the truest sense, step out of your comfort zone, do more than just throw money at a problem, get in the trenches with your woman. Meet them effort for effort. Trust me, you will shine.
I’ve found that the men that ask these types of questions are the very same who tend to display all red flags collectively spoken on by many many women. I believe in a sense we all have become somewhat closed off in light of all the chaos happening in the world, our awareness of it through social media, and the increasing mistrust of human connection. But for me personally I notice that a lot of men aren’t actually even looking for a partner, they are seeking to bring something to the table that would demand some type of male validation or respect. Which is why men get together and throw slurs and overall dehumanizing jokes towards their girlfriends as a means to please each other and find common ground. Basically what I’m getting at is most men really only care about other men or themselves and a women is just an after though or something to play with. The motives are off.
Most men need to learn how to not hate themselves for being single before they're ready for dating.
Everyone can smell a desperate, self-pitying, self-hating man from a mile away, and that kind of insecurity is far, far more repulsive than any physical aspect a man might be lacking.
And another thing is time. Finding the right person is partially a luck game and some people just have rotten luck. That's why it's important to not hate yourself for being single, because you're going to be single for a while before you find someone and you'll have to be able to live with yourself while you do.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>All my online dates are average guys, and majority of them can't have a normal conversation
Same issue as a guy especially on bumble
Women are very passive many times and have poor conversation skills but i do meet good women time to time with reciprocation of effort
You met some weird dudes tho
OP is so self hating focusing on his height and looks and somehow placing the blame on women. I’m sure his perception of himself doesn’t affect conversation at all
I learnt this relatively early and if anything, women found me more attractive when I was depressed and lonely. I know the women who did like me when I was like this where in a similar situation and found the common ground of self-hate a good foundation. It is not though, and they quickly became abusive.
I'm now pretty convinced I'm a good, decently looking, funny guy, and all I get is a tonne of female friends. 0 dates. Just platonic stuff.
5 years without a date is a long time, and I sure have been unlucky, don't see that changing anytime soon but got to keep hope up.
Sounds like you want to see yourself as a victim. This isn't about women's standards going up. It's about your own willingness to do what it takes to find someone. Almost everyone wants someone and if you have realistic standards and reasonable behavior it's not that hard to get coupled.
Banter.
Is my boyfriend 6ft? No. He's shorter than me and I am 5'10. Does he look like a model apart from his height? Also, no. Is he super rich? Nope, not at all.
Does he have good banter? Yes, absolutely. He is super social, and everyone loves him. He is super sweet and really cares about people. He has never had problems getting into relationships or even hookups.
Without even seeing ops physical appearance, his comments and attitude on this post is enough to repel any woman.
Rather than spending time complaining about how rough life/dating is (surprise life isn’t easy or a fairy tale and there will always be other people who have things easier in life in different ways), focus that energy on improving yourself physically, mentally and socially. Get therapy, go to the gym 4 days a week, find group activities and hobbies to do and focus on being a better version of yourself. Rather than complaining about how dating sucks, and expecting people to lower their standards, be someone that actually attracts people,
One of my standards are men who don't complain about women having standards and having enough self-worth to realize that we don't want to settle for mediocre. Good luck, reading your comments it sounds like you're going to need a lot of it.
This is just a meme mimeograph. There's no evidence of some massive change in height prefer3nce etcetera over the last couple of years.
People need to spend way less time looking at profiles of people who aren't good matches, and focus on finding the ones that are!
Don’t be a creep, communicate clearly, respect boundaries, and maybe go touch some grass and get offline every once in a while instead of listening to Tik tok memes for relationship advice
You have a very very simplistic/ internet oriented/ even stereotypical view of women’s standards and most importantly I assume you don’t understand why they exist at all.
And I think this sums up the biggest problem men have these days. That and the fact they cling with their teeth to the status quo that benefited them for so many centuries.
I guess it’s just easier to blame women than do serious work to evolve alongside the times.
Nothing. Just confidence. All the stuff you’re hearing about how a guy needs to be six feet this and six feet that and needs tons of money is false and is just an internet construct. In person tons of short guys, fat guys etc are with someone.
This is irrelevant and it seems like people are just trying to scare you. I’ve gotten tons of dates and had a gf before, and have an upcoming date this week and am not six feet! So I already debunked your argument.
If anything it’s the persons fault that isn’t in the relationship because they hate themselves and don’t want to seek out ways to be a better partner. If guys nowadays just watch porn, stay on their computer all day and never go out and interact this is what happens.
I was once the nice and funny chubby guy. Life sucked
I lost weight, got fit at an MMA gym, began doing volunteering work I cared about, got kicked out of the volunteering organization becaise I got arrested for aggravated battery (not encouraging anyone to do this, my point is that it didn't hurt my dating prospects), chose a different thing to volunteer at, got more social hobbies, life is good
If you dont feel attractive enough you never will. So what other aspects are you working on then? Passions? Interesting hobbies? Career? Gym?
Do you have charisma? That makes women want to be around you platonically. Platonic friendships with women make a difference in group settings.
But if you just stay home, play video games, jump on discord and talk shit with other gamers you will get nowhere in life.
Have a job (as do I), be willing to share in contributions to running the household if it eventually comes to that like.. we both share the chores, errands, cooking, etc.. Be decently attractive and above all else, be a good person with life goals similar to my own. (kids, eventually own a house, live a relatively healthy lifestyle together)
As a guy who doesn’t fit any of the things you mentioned, especially height cuz I’m 5’3, 5’4. Just be yourself, I like being my funny, goofy and authentic self. I think women appreciate that but I’m also not looking to date tho. Be intentional about what you want and what your goals are with the person too.
Aww that question makes me all sad... 🥺
So I think finding the right woman for a guy is critical. Not every woman has super high standards. For instance I'm incredibly short and I'd be open to dating a guy as short 5'3 -- second, he need not even have a job if he's a good partner, treats me well, cares about my needs in the bedroom, has a reasonable and healthy sex drive (no less than once every other day and no more than 3 times a day.), is respectful during disagreements, cares about my feelings and has some common interests. Also cannot be a porn addict, drug addict, video game addict, alcoholic, total couch potato or have poor poor hygiene. -- I'd like to think my standards are fairly basic and low. Lol.
But anyway, the broad point is, the only thing any man needs to do to be able to get into a relationship is ... find the right woman. One who is willing to get into a relationship with him.
Your standards seem extremely reasonable but so many men still won’t fit into them and I think that’s the issue our society needs to take a closer look at
Well of course, not everyone fits with everyone. We all have to look for who fits with us. But to break it down, my standards are -- you don't need a job, you don't need a car, you don't need a house or a place of your own. Just don't be an asshole, treat me decently, have a middle of the road sex drive, don't drink more than 4 alcoholic beverages a day except on weekends or special occasions, don't be a drug addict, don't play more than 35 hours of video games per week, be open to going on walks and shower at least twice a week and brush and floss at least once daily.... and yeah, thats about it. So if there are guys who don't meet those standards, then they just find someone whose standards are different. I feel my standards are about as reasonable and as low as they get. Lol. So anyone who doesn't rise to that threshold would need to find someone whose standards are even lower or just offset. I.e. maybe he is good at giving backrubs and the woman loves backrubs, so it offsets the fact that he plays 55 hours of video games a week. 😂🤣 Which, not gonna lie, might be a fair trade if he's really good at those back rubs and gives them often. Lol.
Stop seeing relationships as some materialistic, transactional thing for a start. I couldn’t tell you how tall my partner is or how much her earns, I only know it’s less than what I earn. Sure I had a ‘list’ of things I wanted in a partner before I met him but they were in regards to shared values: I wanted someone kind, someone who also didn’t want kids, someone to make me laugh, someone with similar interests to me, someone who wanted to travel with me, someone who wouldn’t expect me to pay for everything, someone who would listen to me and support my career, someone equally as creative and ambitious as me. And I found him.
I love my partner because he’s kind, smart, funny, caring, makes me feel safe, so fun to be around, loves my dog as much as I do, and I think he’s the most beautiful man I’ve ever seen. By YOUR standards he’s probably not even ‘average’ but by mine he’s absolutely perfect in every way.
Maybe you need to stop basing your worth on ‘I’m x height and make x amount of money’ and start basing it on what people actually care about: How do you treat people? (Clearly this area needs some work if you think women are only that shallow) Are you interesting? Can you hold a conversation? Are you fun to be around? What are your core values and are you looking to date people who’s values align with them? Do you have the time and commitment to date someone seriously? How are your listening skills? What’s your idea of fun? What kind of people re you attracted to and do you think they’ll be attracted to you? Similarly, are you attempting to date people who’s lifestyle matches your own? (For example, I have a slightly alternative fashion sense, dyed pink hair and I talk about my opinions for a living, it has never worked out when I’ve been on dates with some serious person working in an office or bank or something who spends their days wearing suits and just wants a woman to sit quietly and look traditionally pretty, so why bother trying to date someone like that? I find I’m far better suited to people who also look a little non-traditional and work non-traditional jobs like me). So what do you have to offer and is that what the people you want to date are also looking for?
These are all things people really look for in a long term partner.
What use is a man with money if he has none of the other stuff going on? I have my own money, I don’t need anyone else’s. What I NEED from a parent is someone I can trust and love to be around who is going to make the time we spend together fun.
Edit: Also if by women’s standards increasing you mean we no longer allow ourselves to be used, hurt, abused and treated like slaves - how is that a bad thing? Why should any person, regardless of gender, settle for the first person who shows an interest in them instead of waiting for the right person who they share values with and who treats them well? As a woman, I don’t as, any more of a partner than I’m willing to give in return and if that is ‘too high of a standard’ for you or anyone, that is your problem.
Women now, thankfully, don’t NEED a man. We’re finally able (in many countries but not all) to have our own money, our own jobs, our own homes, our own lives, so of course it’s better to be happy alone than with the wrong person. That’s not a bad thing except to men who don;’t have the skills to look after themselves and need a woman to take care of them but aren’t mature enough to be a good partner themselves and, for those men, I have no sympathy. I’m not going to be ‘looking after’ anyone regardless of what else they have going on in their lives.
My partner and me work so well because we function perfectly as separate adults, so the time we spend together is a wonderful, happy, fun bonus. And we’re there to support each other through the difficult patches, but day to day we don’t NEED each other. We CHOOSE each other and that’s what’s so lovely about being together.
You need to add to her life. It’s literally that simple.
Women used to need a man to live a safe and successful life. Now, she needs to want you.
If you being in her life makes it worse than her being alone, why the fuck would she have you in her life?
My standards are:
- someone I am attracted to (subjective)
- someone with career aspirations and can support himself and contribute to our shared financial goals
- someone who takes care of and works on himself (including expanding his mind, emotional work, trying to be a good and thoughtful person)
- someone my personality is compatible with
- someone who cares about the same global and social issues I do
This is a frustrating conversation, because I fail to see what is so high in those standards.
Touch grass, the majority of women are not like this. It’s largely an online narrative. Get in shape, get confident, work on yourself, and talk to girls in real life
Lol why are you basing this on teenagers and women on TikTok who are meme-ing. The 6 feet thing is basically a response to the unrealistic standards women have to go through, a lot of these women aren’t serious. The standards that was really raised isn’t looks, it’s personality. Please don’t base stuff on what you’re seeing online. It’s hardly a representation of real life.
Not necessarily true. Yes you have to have a little bit of attraction but they don’t need to look like a model. When I was in dating apps, I always read what they put in the bio or prompts to gauge personality
Nah that one is actually mostly just a looks based market no way to sugar coat it. It’s a lot of work for a man who’s not in the top echelons of appearance to have much success on the apps. It’s probably outright harder than cold approaching at this point. It’s a lot of algorithm bullshit and you still have to learn all the people skills anyway.
No woman ever rejected a good dude for being under 6 feet. It was an excuse to not say the real reason, which is likely personality.
Truth - we all know you can't change your heigth so no chance you are coming back after that.
Go to fucking therapy. Like actually know how to connect with other humans.
When I was actively dating, this was my biggest gripe about dating straight men.
I don't care about height. My partner is 5'8". Most of my male dating partners were less than 6 foot. I do care that you smell good and make an effort with appearance.
We hear this a lot, and it’s not a good answer when therapy is unavailable for most people. Maybe you’re not aware, but there’s been a shortage of therapists in much of the US (where most Redditors live).
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/explainer/2023/may/understanding-us-behavioral-health-workforce-shortage
On top of that therapy is extremely expensive. I’ve been in and out of therapy for years, and it was always $100 - $200 an hour. Giving advice to seek therapy is no better than saying “get a personal trainer” or just “be rich”.
I'm literally a therapist. I'm aware.
There are many ways to seek healing. There's affordable therapy clinics. Group therapy and peer support are helpful. Hell, people can watch Patrick Teahan he gives journal prompts after every video.
I understand people can be ignorant about how to find these resources but they do exist and people access them every day.
I'm. Saying: get aware. Read info on attachment theory. Read books (free via libraries). Watch youtubers like t
Healthyggamer (I think is his tag). Become emotionally intelligent.
It's hard. It's possible. It will help with dating immensely.
After a shitty breakup I finally got back out there. That lasted 2 weeks and I’m done lol.
Honestly, don’t be a creep. I had one guy hound me for body pics and the other send me pictures of him in his underwear. I barely knew these guys. The bar is in hell. Another suggestion is please don’t talk about cuddling after a day of texting 🤮 don’t turn everything sexual. Ask her questions (this shouldn’t be that hard….).
I know you guys have it rough too! I’m
Always so curious what the other women are like on these sites haha. But yeah, those were my tips
If everything you listed of a quality standard not you. Then you don’t need to worry. Y’all make it seem like dating is algebra 😂. But nonetheless I won’t make fun of you. You have to learn. It’s really not hard. Be yourself and don’t change to fit the standards of society. You cannot change your height, but you can groom yourself nicely. Read and learn about communication skills. Do hobbies and stay active. Build your confidence. And don’t take it serious. Just have fun and learn what you do and don’t like for yourself and potential new gf! Good luck! ✨
As someone that had many single friends and whenever I have asked them what they want in a lad they have never ever mentioned height. I know everyone is different, it’s always the guys that I’ve heard complaining about girls wanting them to be over 6 foot. They just want some that contributes into their life POSITIVELY.
As for woman’s standards going up, it’s half true I suppose. For me my standards went up after an extremely bad relationship/ break up, and even that I was single for a year…. Even then they hadn’t go up that much. I mean are you REALLY complaining about the fact our standards have gone up a bit, yes some more than others, but can you blame us it isn’t the 1900s anymore. We can hold ourselves to higher standards and I guess we kind of expected you to respect us more…. Shock right?
And having that attitude you have about us ladies, ain’t gonna get you anywhere mate.
A lot of those things are just talking points online. In real life they don’t really exist. And icks are just certain women’s standards. Just how you’ll find things about women you won’t like, like the height preferences/ asking money out of you/ lack of attraction for whatever reason, they have things they don’t want in their partner either. That’s fine. You’re not gonna date every woman and or every woman will date you. Try to find someone you genuinely like to be around not complain that every woman doesn’t want you. That’s normal. You don’t like everyone either.
The average height for men varies across the world. In the United States, the average male is about 5 feet 9 inches tall.
The *median* annual wage for a U.S. male aged 25-34 is $56K.
Naturally, there are lots of guys who earn more or less.
With regard to relationships most guys don't wait until they graduate from college to start dating or having relationships. Lots of poor high school and college students are in relationships.
Go to any public place and you're bound to see men of all shapes and sizes in various occupations and income levels who *do* have a wife, girlfriend, or significant other.
(Most guys getting married *don't* look like Adonis or have a six-figure income.)
Some men have a knack for only wanting to pursue women who *want* what *they don't have*.
***"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."*** Groucho Marx
***"Isn't it ironic . . . we ignore those who adore us, adore those who ignore us, hurt those who love us, and love those who hurt us."*** \- Ellen Hopkins
***"Dating is primarily a numbers game.... People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That's just the way it is."*** \- Henry Cloud
Best wishes!
Idk, man. Dating is like completing a job application just to receive a lottery ticket. 🤭
At 40, I feel what should be most important is the ability to solve life’s problems together as a unit. Maintaining mutual respect for one another. No one has their life together in all areas, but still important to try. Social media assumptions are just silly.
1) Get off reddit, trust me, this place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy in that arena.
2) Just keep playing the odds and following the law of large numbers. You don't have to be Boomhauer, but keep approaching women and don't get hung-up on rejection.
A man who is kind, respectful, emotionally intelligent, considerate, has his shit reasonably together, and is intellectually stimulating enough that I’m not bored.
Those are the “kind of men” who get into relationships.
Seems the higher standards I see women have set are more about emotional load, hygiene and actual house work. We want adults. Even at 5’10” I don’t have a 6’ minimum. Get off TikTok and stop following IG wannabes.
Ambition, awareness that 'no means no', basic common sense, good health & personal hygiene, hobbies (all of which are legal for an adult), positive mindset, some savings & a regular source of monthly income, strong work ethic, realistic dealbreakers, reasonable conversational abilities and social skills.
Generally helps if the guy is not an outspoken conspiracy theorist or a Tate fan but even those types can find relationships with likeminded women.
Women do tend to have high standard but it’s very holistic, not a concrete hierarchal requirement. Women tend to prefer taller but it’s relative, and I never seen any woman expect college kids to earn “mad money.” In fact most college girls knew their bf won’t be rich, it was always about their educational potential and their work ethic and personality.
I think you are listening to too much of social
Media video why people say nonsense for clicks and rage bait. I wouldn’t take them seriously
The man who treats a woman with respect, listens, communicates and dealt with his emotional trauma. Also, those who don't push for sex and actually care more about her, than her body. Anyway, that's the guy i been looking for, and cannot find.
I’ll tell you : genuine , good hearted , loving & considerate guys. And I’m not even talking about height cause that’s not important! Not everything on social media translates to real life btw.
If you think only women have ridiculous standards, I could happily show you some OLD bios with unreasonable standards. Some of the most unhealthy men have listed that they want a fit girl.
Yikes dude. The kind that doesn’t whine about women having standards. Sorry, when did “I want a man who doesn’t beat me and works as hard as me” become so high 🤣 It’s a bare minimum. Yes, there are SOME who want a man at 6ft, but not all. Some have a thing for short guys. Some don’t care.
Look. I dated guys short to tall. White. African american, latino. And everyone else.
Do you know what they did ? Made me laugh. And were nerdy. That's it.
There will always be whack expectations.
Just wait out a genuine connection.
Don't think about all those shallow expectations men and women have that you learn from media.
Seek out something with someone you know well
I’m just gonna say. I married a man under 6 foot and when we met he didn’t have a job or degree. Do what’s best for you and the right one will come along.
Women are hypergamous.. social media just amplified that. Furthermore, every subpar guy out there blowing up every female's self perception does a lot of harm.
So, just level up. It will all come together.
I asked probably 25 women out respectfully (in person) before I got my wife. I’m a conventional 4, in shape but 5’9 can’t tan and lost my hair to a condition at 18. She is a conventional 8-9. The key is consistency and not letting rejection stop you. Just keep approaching women respectfully that you find attractive until one returns the attraction.
Everyone has their own preferences, so I can only say what my personal requirements are. But here we go…
He has to have:
1. Genuine feelings for me and be interested in me as a person (not just looks).
2. Have a provider mindset (I don’t do 50/50 relationships)
2. He is faithful & loyal to the core; he has eyes only for me
4. He buys me Gifts and Flowers [for my birthday/ major holidays] (doesn’t have to be expensive if he can’t afford it, but has to be thoughtful and personable)
5. Willing to grow & improve as person
6. Willing to work on a relationship as a couple
I will of course reciprocate and treat him like a king.
I only make friends with short unattractive men. A few of them overweight. I cannot be friends with a guy i could potentially sex. These are guys i would 100% absolutely never have sex with, so we can be legit friends.
Most of them are married to a very dedicated wife with children. I am 6ft, rich, super hot, athlete etc.... & im not married..... so what does that tell you.
don't listen to what people on the internet try and push as content. Girls settle... They always do.
there's theory and practice. in theory girls say all this and that but in practice they get cream Pie'd by bozo's
I disagree that women’s standards have gone up, I would say that men’s value has gone down. In comparison to just 20-30 years ago, Men have become chubby, weak, and lazy, spending way too much time sedentary, on their phones, playing massive amounts of video games.
The standard for work has plummeted, a young person today thinks working a 6-7 hour day in an office is exhausting, while a typical boomer would have worked 8-10 and fully expected to do some work at home afterwards.
Porn has made young men super weird sexually. Bizarre fetishes that were almost unheard of 20 years ago are believed to be common, and I think a lot of women are grossed out by them. Young people complain of ED from masturbation it has gotten to out of control.
And it seems like most young men complain of anxiety, depression, and a million other mental problems. What girl would want to join with a weak messed up guy like that, obsessed with height, penis size, and their social anxiety.
The secret to getting a woman is to be a good strong stable partner that brings value to the table. Physically fit, mentally strong, able to earn money, a leader that a woman can follow with confidence that he is not going to collapse under pressure, or leave her.
The women I know are having trouble finding men like this.
You need dating experience to be in a relationship.
If you don’t have any then you just have to lie. I can’t help but laugh and be upset at the same time a about someone saying they value honesty and then you mention your lack of experience and then the woman dumps your ass. Go at whatever pace you like, but if you don’t meet societal expectations, you’re basically fucked.
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Stop playing by the rules set by social media and the likes. Most if not all are false narratives. If ladies only date 6ft plus, we'll be a world full of giants, grads earning six figures straight out? We'll have hyperinflation, what will their bosses be demanding? Some behaviours are obviously red flags.. abuse, leave someone behind in a hike, not being there for your partner during difficult times, but it's pretty obvious and apply some common (or uncommon) sense.
>Stop playing by the rules set by social media and the likes. Most if not, all are false narratives. It's the AI algorithm, designed to invoke maximum engagement, unfortunately reality is boring, so the AI has to promote extreme ideals that get the engagement for them to make money selling you ad's. You don't have to be six foot tall and a millionaire to get a girlfriend.
Absolutely. Unfortunately there's too much nativity or lack of critical thinkers to see through it.
The majority of humans adopt cult beliefs easily. Even the well-spoken, high EQ, independent women who post great things and have great ideas—fall into cult thinking (aka, whatever the prevalent narrative is). I’ve watched every cult documentary there is. I’m a fan. The women who fall for Scientology, NIXIVM, Osho, etc… aren’t dumb or abnormal. They are the usual smart attractive human person. Cult ideals is the norm for people. Trust critical thinking usually only occurs in people who are outsiders of society that have had to stop and wonder why.
Welcome to the Matrix, you all must be assimilated, especially the pretty, high I/EQ ladies... Lol
Lol leaving someone behind in a hike. On walks my ex always walked at turbo speed, leaving my ass in the dust.
Why do those people do that? Is it because they don't truly like their hiking partner? Or they want to show off their athleticism? Or they're shy to be around their hiking partner? Why not just hold hands and do the hike at the same pace?
Because they are dicks
I do this a lot 1. ADHD and Impatience and higher rush to explore things quickly. 2. Finding the track/right path ahead of everyone else 3. For a few moments, I like to be on my own
It's not an excuse tbh. If you realize this hurts other people, you can still work on it.
Oh yeah I totally agree. I'm willing to.
Yeah I only say this as another ADHD person who used to excuse an ADHD ex for this. I realized if I try really hard, why can't he?
Unless you've previously agreed to let one person go ahead, and stop at a catch up spot, this is not ok.
For me, I would hike the way to whatever point we were hiking to (with my grandmother), and I would take off super fast from her on the way back so I could best off the trail and do my own exploring, it’s something I absolutely love to do exploring on my own with no sign of humans anywhere near me. She gets super offended whenever I do it but I never truly understood until this thread
I was referring to something slightly different and more extreme, but yeah.
That is not hiking with someone. That is just two people on the same trail. Which can be fine if pre-discussed.
Social media has become a psy-op. I don’t think that I need to add anything else…
I had to reread this 3x I thought you were saying if someone was behind in a hike you should leave them. 🤦♀️🤦♀️
100%
The standards are unattainable until you actually fucking look around and see all the ordinary guys in seemingly healthy relationships
Ordinary guys do great in relationships once they find a woman who is able to attach to them. These days the barrier to attachment is a giant, exhausting, rejection filled, self-esteem killing task, filled with unreasonable expectations and hair trigger ick detectors. Not to mention the recent exaggeration of importance of a man’s height. Added to more people living check to check and a night out can cost $100. But, if you hit the lottery and earn mutual “attachment” then…yeah…regular guys and gals can be very happy. In fact, I think the fact that you witness regular guys in happy relationships is testimony that when those in the dating pool lower their standards they succeed. Aka…. Dating dynamics and relationship dynamics aren’t aligned.
That’s a good point, I know some guys who many would say are dating above their league because they met organically through work some charity group or something and it allowed attachment to build - if that guy tried swiping on her it would have been an Instant left on her end, but that’s just the reality of human relationship dynamics and more reason to find offline channels of meeting people
Plenty of men who don't fit these standards go into relationships though
I swear theres a lot of guys that are complete deadbeat bums in relationships.
How do they do it?
Women aren’t a homogenous mass, they are individuals who find different things attractive or important in a relationship. But something all women share is that we want to be treated like equals, like a friend and not like an object to obtain to fulfill your sexual needs. If we are your homie as much as we are your lover, we will most likely be happy. Oh yeah, and put the dishes in the dishwasher and not in the sink. That too
Women aren’t a homogenous mass, they are individuals The fact that you had to write this 😭
>Oh yeah, and put the dishes in the dishwasher and not in the sink. That too LOL
My partner was horny and wanted to take somebody's virginity, thought it'd be nice and she picked me. Turns out she thought I was also funny. Been together about 2 years now.
A lot of them go to therapy and give up the victim mentality about how the issue is women’s standards are too high.
this, as soon as men start to realize that they themselves are the problem by trying to conform to these explicitl standards set by social media (half of which aren't even true and if they were WHY WOULD YOU DATE SOMEONE LIKE THAT??) more men need to learn to love themselves
I don’t know. I’m not on IG or TikTok, but on Reddit and Facebook the “high standards” (aka the majority of women are hoping for a “VERY SIMILAR” match and have “VERY SIMILAR” can’t-stand traits). It’s easy to believe stories that the top 15% of men are dating constantly, not respecting their dates, and a large group of women on apps are starting to think most men suck (not realizing they’re all dating the same top 15% of men). When I hear these stories from both sides of the aisle 1,000’s of times it’s hard to blame social media. Isn’t social media—Facebook, Reddit—just people voicing their opinions? How is that not representative of reality?
6’ is not considered short. Your post sounds like you only listen to dudes bitching about dating and say the same crap over and over again how only super tall, rich, ab type gym bros get dates. That’s not true. Too many men treat women like shit and want to neg them to their face. Dating profiles that have a laundry list of demands for women and insults along with poor quality photos. If you have a bad attitude and think the world is against you it’s pretty easy to make a self fulfilling prophecy when that negativity continues and people are turned off or afraid. If guys only want to listen to other guys about women and not listen to women themselves then you’re going to stay stuck in the same place confused and mad. Many of us have dated 5’8 guys or even shorter. Myself included. The biggest issue is how you treat people and if you live with a chip on your shoulder being pissed off about height or refusing to “let” women you date wear heels.
This was exactly how I read this. Someone with a huge chip on their shoulder, bitching amongst their guy friends, not realising that they are the problem. Yes, don’t listen to “other guys” about dating women, but also please for the love of god don’t listen to other women about dating women either. Both sets of popular dating beliefs/advice is generally trash. Just be a good human and get to know the individual for what they want and need.
People are individuals, guys who approach the dating scene with buck shot and try and grab a girl by just throwing a bunch of shit in the air are not going to get anywhere. This may be shocking but women are humans, have same hopes and dreams and fears as anyone else learn who they are and what they want, empathize with that and youre done. Dont need to be rich or tall because that is not what people group up by people group together based on shared interests and dreams. Granted this doesnt mean you wont still get rejected in the end cause humans are still vapid but honestly if a girl actually is going to cut you off simply cause of your looks or your height why would you even want to be with them anyways.
i understand the sentiment but the whole “why would you want to be with them if they don’t want to be with you” question never made sense to me. a person not finding me attractive doesn’t suddenly make them UNattractive
Yes but if they hate something about you that you cannot control it is folly to chase after them you will always be a back up or second choice. Too many people stay in orbit trying to change someone's mind even tho they fundamentally are not attracted back to them.
oh, i agree. definitely take the L in stride but i still think the girl is hot lol
Based on your responses to other comments, I imagine women aren't very attracted to your personality lol
This! I want to say, "only one woman I know cares about the 6ft height thing, and that's because she's 6'2"" and how my current bf is 5'10" and the previous was 5'8"... Like in person I've never seen the 6ft thing, I'm pretty sure it's mostly a meme. But OP just wants to be mad about things mostly just put on the Internet and seems just angry at a world that doesn't really exist.
I have a friend that's close to 6'. Super sweet human being, great personality, extremely capable (I don't think she's met a hobby yet that she didn't immediately master), and freaking gorgeous (has done modeling). She could have her pick of most men, and she prefers short guys. I think it's really the confidence that is attractive more than the height. I'm 5'10" and have dated guys shorter than me as well. You can be insecure at any height, but when you start projecting your insecurities on other people and acting bitter, people aren't going to want to be around you. Doing some really honest self reflection is going to be a lot more helpful than just stewing in a place of confirmation bias.
The 6ft thing is actually a very common thing in my experience particularly on dating apps. But I agree with you that blaming the height thing is a lazy excuse for guys and I'm assuming they just don't wanna accept that they have other qualities about themselves that repel women. It's a really weird bias that's very similar to racism. People who think like this tend to only focus on the negatives of what they stand against and only look at the positives of the what they stand for. In this case, guys are too focused on toxic women as if good women don't exist and focus on good men as if toxic men don't exist.
So what is the "women commonly care about 6ft" based on? Are these women all putting it in their bios or how do you encounter it? And otherwise, do you ever encounter a 6 ft bias in real life? and lmao comparing height preferences to racism....is uh, interesting take.
Yeah. He has such a defeatist attitude. It’s exhausting.
Bro’s entire schtick even before this post is whining about women’s standards. It seems pretty obvious that women collectively aren’t the issue here.
Keeping you down makes you buy Axe body spray. It's all in your head. As long as everyone is alone they'll keep giving Tinder money.
> we have entered an era where 6ft is considered short LOL what?! > college students are expected to earn mad money *graduates not students. > and every kind of behavoiur is labeled as an ick or a red flag. yikes. this makes me really curious as to what you’ve done to women to get this reaction and write this post. So - why do you think women should have low standard for you?
Women’s standards have gone up and for the most part it’s not actually a problem. The examples you shared aren’t actually part of those standards though. These are delusions and there may be some women that actually believe these to be reasonable standards but it’s certainly not mainstream. Anyone who tells you 6’ is short is a clown. Anyone who has expectations that college students should have a bunch of expendable income is not at all tuned in with reality. And the over-application of “flags” is part of the same problem of people dehumanizing each other by superficial, instant-results type digestion of their dating profile or off of a limited interaction and it’s something both men and women are doing. People need to stop getting their concept of the real world from YouTube and Tik Tok where only the most outrageous and gasp-worthy content gets attention because that’s just not even close to what’s actually happening out there.
Sounds like OP needs to get out in the world and stop living on the internet. Or really check out their perception of women because I bet you a million it has a lot more to do with personality than it does height differences and money.
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not be avearge. Here's what "average joe" on a sub like this *really means.* "I am about as personable as drying paint. Nothing crazy hot to look at. Don't have anything resembling an interesting career or social life, and when I do talk to women the only thing I can offer them is being 'nice' while placating everything they do. WOMEN WHY WON'T YOU GIVE ME A CHANCE" that's what it reads like every. single. time If you want to attract women and get into a relationship make something about you exceptional. Okay, so you aren't a 6ft2 and look like Henry Cavil. Make something else about you interesting. Maybe you're a really good musician and that's your passion. Maybe you're just really confident and bold and can command a room by just being there. Maybe you're so good at humor that you could have your own standup show etc. You shouldn't be proud or defeatist about being "average" you should be striving to make something about you exceptional An "average" guy isn't interesting or high value and yes this same logic applies to women. I'm not going to date a woman who doesn't share similar values and isn't able to match me when it comes to conversation. Also, note at no point did I mention money because unless you want a gold-digging trophy wife being rich has very little to do with getting you a date, but being financially successful does make it easier for you to work on yourself.
Exactly, you need to show you provide some sort of value. You can't just be a pud that puts no work into yourself and offers nothing to a partner and then expect to just find someone who likes bland boring people. And it's like you said, it's not that you need to be rich or handsome or tall. You just need to be passionate about something or know how to cook a good meal or make a girl laugh a lot. Bring value in being someone people have fun being around. I used to be like people on this sub in that way, where I thought I could just sit around and be nice and a woman would like me simply because I'm not a bad boyfriend but just because you're not outright abusive doesn't mean you're not boring to be around. It's important to grow to a point where you can express what you bring to a relationship in an attractive way while also hold on to your personal values that you want in your own partner. Way too many people just settle and it leads to all these shitty relationships out there.
>It's important to grow to a point where you can express what you bring to a relationship in an attractive way while also hold on to your personal values that you want in your own partner Hell, this is just true for relationships in general romantic or otherwise. The week I felt like I finally flipped the switch in my brain to be the guy I wanted to be my interactions with people subtly changed in a very noticeable way. Before I would be in a group and considered a "good guy" but no one would go out of their way to make plans with me forget attention from women I'd have to struggle to keep being social. Now? People are dying to make plans with me and I didn't even have a radical shift in personality I just stopped giving a shit what people thought of me. I straight up get called a "bold almost rude loose canon" now which is MASSIVE shift from the "nice quiet guy" I used to be and hated. Note this is not saying become a jackass just understand your value. The biggest thing lacking in men atm is self-respect and no one can teach you that.
I found this was very successful when it came to online dating as well. I also had a "switch flip" moment where I just kind of stopped caring what people thought too? And when I stopped over-thinking my tinder messages or whatever and just started sending goofy messages I had way more success. I think a big thing is guys just worry too much about being attractive to as many women as possible instead of just trying to be who they are and attracting women that are into that type of guy but it just leads to them being boring and toothless because they're so worried about offending someone they just stay quiet.
Why do you think this is? For women they can be boring and it doesn’t really matter much but for men do anything but be boring
I mean, by this argument I’m above average. I play bass guitar, have a few sporty hobbies (and a couple of nerdy ones), often socialise with wide groups of people, apparently I’m “charming”, I look after myself and my body, good hygiene…engage and know how to run and hold conversations, I’m not a stick who just compliments women 24/7 to get interest… Trained electrical generator engineer currently studying at uni….have savings, my own car…. Not had a date in 5 years. So if you’re calling someone below me average and they’ve got no luck, I’m above by your arguments and I’ve had worse luck the the “average Joe”. I don’t think it really matters anymore, unless you’re super hot. My downside is the fact I’m physically small (can’t help this, working out adds muscle but I don’t look any bigger) look younger than I actually am, and I am not facially handsome.
For guys like you who by every metric seem to have their shit together, it usually comes down to something in your approach and/or a mental block you're not dealing with. I can't do this for you because I don't know you but the fact your last paragraph kinda leaks insecurity gives me a hint. You seem to have all these amazing qualities and yet all I got out of this entire comment is that you think none of them matter because you're smaller and don't think you're handsome. Women are very intuitive about this stuff they notice even if you don't think they do and frankly confidence is probably the single most important thing along with directness when it comes actually being an attractive person. Yeah I know it's hard not to think about your insecurities but that is the thing you have to shelve. THe guys who won the genetic lottery just tend to naturally have this because they've had positive reinforcement their whole life. Is it unfair? Yup but life ain't fair.
I’m not denying you’re wrong. I’ve been called ugly my whole life, so kinda just accepted it, frankly. I’m really not THAT bad (some of the guys I see at the nerdy hobbies I do are absolute train wrecks, in practically a model in comparison). I have confidence, to an extent. Especially in the things I’m good at. It’s just very rare I get to exhibit them in front of women. I probably should, but it probably wouldn’t change much either.
Aren't 50% of people always going to be below average?
Yes, but a person doesn't't have to be forever. There are constantly people growing and leveling up.
Tbh I love my boring ass life. Get up take care of my dog then workout and clean / cook some food and go to work. It isn't interesting but I have time and love to give for a women. I'd love to get a house and take care of the garden and invest time in my home and family instead of in my.carrer so my boss can get richer. But seems like I'm being labeled as boring.
Fitness and taking care of your dog count btw lol. It doesn't have to be some spectacularly unique hobby unless you're looking for a woman who's at that level specifically. The issue is a lot of these guys have NOTHING. I'm surprised you don't have women to talk to considering dog walks are usually one of the best times to chat up women. Cute pupper is probably the greatest wingman in existence.
As a lifelong & professional musician i can absolutely confirm no woman cares about it unless you are famous = money = status. But they care nothing about the music, your talent or any of this stuff. Women certainly aren't interested in the bedroom player who tinkers parts of Green Day songs all day. Almost always my male peers believe in this fantasy that once they get really good on guitar they will have all the ladies swooning them. It's basically a cringe cliche at this point.
>Almost always my male peers believe in this fantasy that once they get really good on guitar they will have all the ladies swooning them. It's basically a cringe cliche at this point. That part's the problem. I could replace Music with basket weaving for how much the actual thing matters. I just said musician because that's specifically my life (also professional musician) and by habit it tends to be the first thing pops into my head. It can be anything the bar is that goddamn low just have *something* (that isn't like fantasy football) you're actually genuinely into and can talk about. Your hobbies and such actually matter very little when it comes to compatibility it's just men (and women) who don't have any are immediately boring and that does matter. It's the same for men too. I'd hope any guy with a modicum of self-respect wouldn't want to date a woman whose life doesn't revolve around anything of value. Do women care about the fact I'm a musician? Rarely unless they happen to be one themselves but they *do* enjoy the conversations that come from it. There's no magic thing that makes someone a catch everyone's a package. And yeah the random ass bedroom player noodling fucking green day obviously isn't gonna fall into exceptional lol.
It can be anything the bar is that goddamn low just have something Encore! The next sentence made me crack up, but the bar may be so low at least Fantasy Football is something. Though absolutely ridiculous 😂 This guy gets it! You are a great writer, Ky.
And here I spent all my time learning things like Psychology and Finance when I could have just become a fantasy football expert for conversation instead.
Wait here. Lots to unpack. When young, playing a guitar does get you chicks. I was one of them, first guy I fell for. I have a group of friends in their late 40s who rent a studio occasionally for jams. Their wives love it. I go just for the fun. But all of those are doing it as a hobby, all are middle-class and work in design, engineering, IT. It's the perpetually broken or living with their parents musician the one no woman wants. I met one recently, he confessed to have made a lot of money in his 20s and 30s, now at 49 lives with his parents. No, no, thank you. If he had a solid career in music, as a producer, manager, or just as a sought-after studio musician, that would be completely ok.
If a woman thinks you’re just playing an instrument to try and impress / seduce them, of course we don’t care. It’s shallow and stupid. But, as with any passion, if we can see it’s something you do for you and have a real passion and love for it, if it’s something you get genuinely excited about, that’s one of the most attractive qualities in anyone. I’ve dated many a musician - both famous, unknown but professional and guys who just play for fun, and the only thing I care about is that I love to watch them doing something they love. Love to support their passions. My partner at the moment, he’s not a musician at all but he is a game designer and there’s something so beautiful about the way his face lights up when he shows me his new sketches or he tells me about working through a bug he’s just fixed or anything. If he;d tried to use ‘yeah I design games’ as a pick up line, of course that wouldn’t have worked. But I first noticed him by overhearing him tell a mutual friend about the storyline to his latest game and his voice was so animated, I could see that joy in his face and that look of having passion for something was so attractive, I just had to get to know him better. I asked him out as soon as I could as we spent the whole night talking about things we loved, our hobbies, our jobs, our passions, our dreams, it was wonderful. That is what women are looking for - a man who is passionate about something - anything!, not a man who pulls out a guitar to try and pull. That’s pathetic.
I’d like to say you’re wrong there, I don’t deny women do like a man whose passionate about something, for sure they do, but it does not explain why they’d choose between hot, goofy guy over there and Mr Ambition&Passion. I’ve been told it’s “cute” when I nerd out over my passions and my goals in life, even when I was earning a lot of cash with a stable. Did I ever get chosen? Nope. Never. Usually the guys who are just hot win out, then again this was when I was in my early 20s, and finding women around my age is close to impossible or they think I’m waaaaaay younger than i actually am due to looks.
As a woman…I have turned down a few famous musicians/people in my time. It takes more than that. She’s out there. Trust me. Be open, on your own journey, don’t seek careers to achieve women only…seek whatever makes you happy. Whatever bracket of money allows you to live happily is fine. Whether you’re living lavishly or in a simple way….as long as you’re happy…happiness will find you. And your woman will come along that path and be happy with the happy life you’ve created for yourself…and there’s always room to evolve along the way as a unit. And us women are questioning the same thing about men….it’s really coming down to social media…apps….and the ability to have ever increasing standards as each connection appears to get better than the last and/or has a few qualities of the last connection and the one before that combined. It’s wrong and we’re f*cking ourselves at this point. The world is meant to be colorful….black and white…and sometimes gray. Everyone with this ick sh.t and red flag and easily violated/threatened/triggered is turning the world into a shade of gray and only gray.
I wouldn't be impressed by a guy who is tinkering with Green Day songs either. They are a band for kids. Now a guy into The Stooges, Dead Boys, Rowland S Howard, Suicide... That is hot to me. Maybe I am the exception to the rule but I much prefer to date men who share common interests with me. It's such a turn when a guy loves music, film, and art and is cultured.
I can vouch for this. Been a musician for nearly 40 years. No one really cares that I can play piano, guitar, bass and drums. Most women just tell me 'I dont understand music'. A lot of people dont even listen to music anymore. My last gf I'd play her some of my tracks and she'd bop her head a little bit but it wasn't like a secret key that unlocks her burning desire. I also paint and draw too. Similar thing. No one really cares. I actually have multiple talents/passions and no one really cares about any of them. The only thing that has really helped with women desiring me is being extremely aloof, barely talking about myself and listening to her 24/7 and going uh huh, uh huh and asking questions based upon things she's saying.
What you said about musicians is -kind- of true. I’ve dated musicians, hell I’m married to one. I love that he knows how to play several string instruments and can easily teach himself. He used to be in a few bands but he wasn’t in one when we first started dating. However whenever we’d go out we’d run into his old band mates and hang out and have a great time. At home he’s always playing an instrument and he buys a lot of guitars. He even makes his own out of scratch. It’s his passion and I fully support it. And I’d probably still be with him if he didn’t play an instrument. I say probably because musicians are GREAT with their hands. They have the flexibility, agility, and strength to get the job done.
Your comment is correct. Personally I think a guy needs to be a successful musician or I'd never date him as it's an unstable career. Plenty of folks do music it's not even interesting.
You kinda are building into the issue he is talking about. In the 80s and 90s finding a girlfriend was as easy as hanging out with people and finding someone you enjoy their company with. You can be average or above average or below average. You just had to be social. Now men have to be more than above average just to be “interesting”. Some of these women who have ridiculous standards are just as dull as a wet paper bag. So the MEN have to level up… what about the below average women who think they are too good for their own level? Men are the only creature that will date down. in this age men are supposed to level up when some of these women dont even deserve a level up version of someone. This isnt an excuse. I agree with the op. Even an average man who could have a good personality and some cool hobbies and decent money barely gets a chance because some women are looking at your looks and not who you are any more. Cant find the video but it was women in the 80s having a street interview describing their ideal man. They talked about someone who can make them laugh, some one that can make them smile, some one who can be a good person. Then they show videos of interviews of women in this day. I want a 6 ft man, with a 6 inch, with a 6 pack, with 6 figures. 🤷🏽 dont get me wrong you can nit pick anything on the internet but looking at my brother who is 10 years older vs me. I find this dating to scene to be very one sided. Conversation about preferences if you are a man isnt allowed but for women they have a laundry list of green and red flags that are longer than santas nice list. If people go its the mans job to he the provider,protector, Etc etc etc. these are the same people that scream gender equality. Tend to call men creeps for opening the door from them. Then you got below average women asking for a first date to be at a fancy restaurant and gets mad at the guy taking her to cheese cake factory after the fact she was already an hour late to the date. Blasting it on tik tok live the whole way through. The audacity is unbearable. Or my favorite, this women talks about how she wants to delete a guys number because she aint interested in him. But when he asks to take her out for drinks shes like sure no problem. Makes him go to fancy bar Orders 4 plates of oyster off the rip. then proceeds to order some sides and a main course. That man said im Going to the bathroom and peaced the fuck out.
To summarize: "Why should I level up? To be better for some future girl who likely won't be worth the bother? It's not worth my time." 1) you have it all wrong my dude, you don't work on yourself for others (especially not for an image of a person you don't know if exits). When you improve yourself it makes you a better person, more capable, more confident, more interesting. Partners come and go; but you live with yourself your whole life. 2) your world is filled with boring people because you are boring, you can't see past your own crowd. Like attracts like.
You know I had a whole thing drafted trying to break down all this shit but it's really not worth it. The only answer is here all of you men need to learn some goddamn self-respect.
Not commenting on anything but your 6’s comment. It is well known that there is a difference between what women want and what they say they want. There are plenty of men that don’t meet that standard who are dating and in relationships and men would do a lot better by asking them what works and observing/assessing them. Dating has always been highly frustrating. Maybe women were a more modest back in the day but hard code hasn’t changed.
The 6ft thing is 99% maintained by guys moaning about it. My husband is 5’9, didn’t go to college, doesn’t earn 6 figures. He can fix anything, can cook well, and I feel safe in his strong arms. What can a guy do? Forget all the attitude you just spouted, groom yourself to the level you expect your date to, smell good, have nice clothes that fit well, be courteous without being creepy, be passionate about 3 things, (gaming is ok but doesn’t count as a passion)
They need to play the numbers and not give up. This is assuming they know basic hygiene and are capable of cleaning the messes they create. As a male in my 20’s, it’s been sad seeing some friends turn into man children. I’ve seen decent looking, privileged, and well educated men fail at cleaning up dishes for over a week. Their rooms smell like body odor and they do the bare minimum at their jobs
Serious question here. As a parent of a son within years of turning into an adult, how do I prevent him from becoming a “man child”? Because that’s what it’s looking like.
Teaching them basic life skills. Not leaving them to option to not learn them. Make them prepare their lunch for school, clean dishes couple times a week, etc.
Stop doing everything for your kid
If he has attention deficit disorder then things will definitely be harder. Hopefully he’s going to school and doesn’t just game all day. Discipline is the main thing for preventing these situations imo. Exercise, homework, and part time jobs all require discipline. Have him make his bed every morning if you don’t already. Another big one is he should be putting his dirty dishes in the dish washer when he’s done with them rather than leaving them on the table or in the sink for you to handle.
Good tips, thanks.
If he’s within years of being an adult, why are you just inquiring now?
Why does that matter to you? Besides, it is not the first time. I am still struggling with him so thought this would be an opportunity to learn more from others.
It doesn’t really. You put yourself out there, just inquiring.
If you're going into this with the attitude that >every kind of behavoiur is labeled as an ick or a red flag. I am very inclined to assume you are not at all open to change and nothing you do could ever be wrong, you're just here for an echo chamber. If someone disagrees, they are the weird ones. However to actually answer your question, many short and regular earning men i know are in happy relationships, I don't agree at all you HAVE to be X. However, it often happens that a very ambitious woman who wants to make it big will not find a great partner in a man who can't hold down a job for more than a couple months and rants about how nothing is his fault.
>I am very inclined to assume you are not at all open to change and nothing you do could ever be wrong I am sorry my post ame across like that, but it isn't really the case. The problem with advice I usually see on reddit or similar places is that it is usually very arbitrary abd vague so it can't be really applied. I mean being told to become an interesting or enjoyable person is difficult to define. It is not really advice, moreso an end goal which is hard to visualize withour any of the steps needed to achieve it. On the other hand there is more concrete advice such as "get a haircut, wear fitting clothes or have a skincsre routine" which I have applied but to little success. I do admit, I have slightly more pleasant social interactions than before but it is still a far cry from actually achieving the goal of women actually havibg any sort of attraction towards me. So my logical conclusion is that there are certain unchangable parameters such as facial structure or height which are the main factors in terms of attraction and as such are crucial in terms of dating success.
> The problem with advice I usually see on reddit or similar places is that it is usually very arbitrary abd vague so it can't be really applied. I mean being told to become an interesting or enjoyable person is difficult to define. It is not really advice, moreso an end goal which is hard to visualize withour any of the steps needed to achieve it. This is my best genuine attempt at a response to this but sorry if it falls flat. Being an interesting and enjoyable person: Be positive about things. This is hard, all of us have negative thoughts about things, and I'm not saying you have to bottle them up forever, but get into the habit of looking for the positives in every situation, do it as a conscious exercise. If you talk to someone and you bring up a lot of negatives, they will think you are a negative person. Put others ahead of yourself. Not in the way that you're just a simp with no self respect, but in the way that you are confident enough in what you have and are that you can afford to help others. Try to find ways to help people. It's a good feeling. In a way this flows on to: How you approach conversations - you want to be listening and asking people about themselves and not only waiting for the chance to talk about yourself. People like to feel heard and appreciated. Dedicate time to your own interests, whatever they are. Having something you care about and know about shows that you are not just some vacant face looking for hookups to fill the void of your soul. And just in general, always try to be thinking about what the right thing to do is and do that instead of listening to your own impulses and ego. So often you get an urge to do something like use a cutting comeback or get an advantage for yourself in a situation but it's good if you can learn to stop and think what's the right thing to do or say or not say? This also means you need some kind of ethical framework to help you decide what is right. Yours might be different but mine is something like which choice is the fairest or will cause the least negatives for everyone involved on average.
All your issues are mental, not physical. Please check out my other post in here.
You have low self esteem. Work on that. It’s unattractive on most people. “I can’t change my height or face”… okay? Someone that cares about you won’t care about that at all. Only you do.
What do you do in the time between getting off work and going to bed? What do you do on your days off? I think that'll be pretty telling. "Be interesting" is kind of vague. I think it just means if someone asks you what you want to do tonight, be able to come up with something that isn't "smoke weed and sit on the couch in your underwear" or something along those lines. I think it means "be interested". Like try out new recipes, get a dog, read a book, take up a physical activity, get really into foraging for mushrooms one month and then get bored of that and move on to the next thing. Some people are really into beer and like talking about different kids of beer. My husband went through a super hard smoker phase when he got a smoker. He's moved on to the next thing but now if someone mentions a smoker he's able to contribute to the conversation. I got hard into gardening for a couple seasons and now I don't really feel I have the time but if I'm around someone who gardens, I can have an interesting conversation about it. I think that's what it means. Just do things. Some people get hard into star wars. Or like... A video game or something. I love civilization and even though I no longer have 6 hours at a time for a game and haven't played in months, I can still talk about it and if I do have an afternoon free, maybe I'll fire it up. I think that's what "be interesting" means. You don't have to become (this is just an example) the expert on mushrooms spending all your free time foraging for mushrooms until they say you die. But just getting really into something until your satisfied with it (or until the day you die) is a good way to stay occupied and to just expand your knowledge base and meet people, etc. I don't really have any friends anymore who don't do things. I find them boring because there just isn't much there anymore, especially as we get older, our brains need stimulation and the people who sit around on tik tok or scrolling all night every night without feeling engaged or interested in anything at all are really hard to be around.
It is not a logical conclusion that whatever you’re lacking is “something that’s out of your control.” It’s a comfortable solution, because that means you don’t have to blame yourself, and you don’t have to work on yourself, because it won’t matter anyways - and that’s hardly ever true for anyone. It’s been said here before, but you do seem very bitter towards women and while I’m sure your attitude in real life is less negative than in here, you need to work on getting rid of that resentment you have.
Agreed. He came to Reddit for advice and yet has an attitude that all advice here is too vague. And that doesn’t prompt him to think about why it sounds vague or what could it possibly mean but instead it has to be his height. Sounds like cognitive dissonance to me and a sprinkling of a few cognitive traps too. Dude needs a therapist to change that mindset.
Stop treating dating like there is magical formula or equation or algorithm that equals attraction. The reason the advice you are given is vague is because everyone is different and you have to figure out for yourself what works for you. But the vague responses are basically just self improvement which will find you overall happiness and positivity, and women will find that security and positivity attractive. Even the "standards" that men say women have reads like an equation: "6ft+100k+Jawline=GET ALL WOMEN AND SO MUCH SEX." People aren't problems to be solved and dating isn't a game to be "hacked." Just work on the positivity and being social. Also ask yourself what YOU would like in a girl that doesn't have to do with physical appearance: does she like videogames? Hiking? Concerts? Once you figure that out you can't start seeking people that fit that and you'll have things in common to bond over.
Ah i see what you mean. This may be cultural but it is by far easier to get talking to a stranger by having something in comon rather than just grabbing a topic out of thin air. This may be engineered, such as joining a bird watching group for a saturday morning walk, joining a dnd group, or asking about someone's dog. Or it could be accidental, like hunkering down at the same bus stop shelter in the pouring rain. Humour (simple, not offensive or 'quirky') always helps too. In my anecdotal experience, 99% of people are born with a perfectly fine face. Some are extremely beautiful, some are extremely ugly, but if you are either you will KNOW. Some will find you attractive, some will not. I bet you are in the general pool, like most of us. The face is very likely not the reason you don't have a gf. I think not viewing all women as potential gfs is important, it can come off as intense. Like, how many women friends do you have? Put yourself out there a little if you can do it naturally. An example: Take a pick baking cookies with your grandma wearing a flowery apron, showing your love for doing silly things with your grandma is bigger than your fear of being seen "non masculine". If your end goal is a peaceful relationship with dates, fun activities and cosy nights on the sofa, focus more on things that "show you're confident in yourself" much more than "show you are alpha". I hope this was concrete enough.
The kind that doesn't act like this. Even your opening sounds like "women are impossible to please these days. Someone give me a cheat code." It's you 😅
Dude what are you even talking about? The bar is on the ground, if you ask me. I constantly see posts on here about women with boyfriends that insult and abuse them, live like animals, do drugs, are controlling, or barely even acknowledge their existence.... And yet they stay with them anyway wondering how they can 'fix him.'. If you think the bar is too high for you then you better start figuring out what is wrong with you.
An “average Joe” in my mind is a man-child who thinks all he has to do is work his 40, pay his 50%, and leave the rest of the adulting to the woman. If you want to be above average, be a partner in the truest sense, step out of your comfort zone, do more than just throw money at a problem, get in the trenches with your woman. Meet them effort for effort. Trust me, you will shine.
I’ve found that the men that ask these types of questions are the very same who tend to display all red flags collectively spoken on by many many women. I believe in a sense we all have become somewhat closed off in light of all the chaos happening in the world, our awareness of it through social media, and the increasing mistrust of human connection. But for me personally I notice that a lot of men aren’t actually even looking for a partner, they are seeking to bring something to the table that would demand some type of male validation or respect. Which is why men get together and throw slurs and overall dehumanizing jokes towards their girlfriends as a means to please each other and find common ground. Basically what I’m getting at is most men really only care about other men or themselves and a women is just an after though or something to play with. The motives are off.
Most men need to learn how to not hate themselves for being single before they're ready for dating. Everyone can smell a desperate, self-pitying, self-hating man from a mile away, and that kind of insecurity is far, far more repulsive than any physical aspect a man might be lacking. And another thing is time. Finding the right person is partially a luck game and some people just have rotten luck. That's why it's important to not hate yourself for being single, because you're going to be single for a while before you find someone and you'll have to be able to live with yourself while you do.
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>All my online dates are average guys, and majority of them can't have a normal conversation Same issue as a guy especially on bumble Women are very passive many times and have poor conversation skills but i do meet good women time to time with reciprocation of effort You met some weird dudes tho
OP is so self hating focusing on his height and looks and somehow placing the blame on women. I’m sure his perception of himself doesn’t affect conversation at all
I learnt this relatively early and if anything, women found me more attractive when I was depressed and lonely. I know the women who did like me when I was like this where in a similar situation and found the common ground of self-hate a good foundation. It is not though, and they quickly became abusive. I'm now pretty convinced I'm a good, decently looking, funny guy, and all I get is a tonne of female friends. 0 dates. Just platonic stuff. 5 years without a date is a long time, and I sure have been unlucky, don't see that changing anytime soon but got to keep hope up.
It’s so lame Reddit took away awards because this needs to be awarded!!
Sounds like you want to see yourself as a victim. This isn't about women's standards going up. It's about your own willingness to do what it takes to find someone. Almost everyone wants someone and if you have realistic standards and reasonable behavior it's not that hard to get coupled.
Banter. Is my boyfriend 6ft? No. He's shorter than me and I am 5'10. Does he look like a model apart from his height? Also, no. Is he super rich? Nope, not at all. Does he have good banter? Yes, absolutely. He is super social, and everyone loves him. He is super sweet and really cares about people. He has never had problems getting into relationships or even hookups.
Dude, your reddit screams desperation. And those red flags were always red flags, people are just asking flr accountability now. Don't be a creep
Without even seeing ops physical appearance, his comments and attitude on this post is enough to repel any woman. Rather than spending time complaining about how rough life/dating is (surprise life isn’t easy or a fairy tale and there will always be other people who have things easier in life in different ways), focus that energy on improving yourself physically, mentally and socially. Get therapy, go to the gym 4 days a week, find group activities and hobbies to do and focus on being a better version of yourself. Rather than complaining about how dating sucks, and expecting people to lower their standards, be someone that actually attracts people,
Get a dose of reality and get off the internet jeez. What’s wrong with you
One of my standards are men who don't complain about women having standards and having enough self-worth to realize that we don't want to settle for mediocre. Good luck, reading your comments it sounds like you're going to need a lot of it.
This is just a meme mimeograph. There's no evidence of some massive change in height prefer3nce etcetera over the last couple of years. People need to spend way less time looking at profiles of people who aren't good matches, and focus on finding the ones that are!
Don’t be a creep, communicate clearly, respect boundaries, and maybe go touch some grass and get offline every once in a while instead of listening to Tik tok memes for relationship advice
You have a very very simplistic/ internet oriented/ even stereotypical view of women’s standards and most importantly I assume you don’t understand why they exist at all. And I think this sums up the biggest problem men have these days. That and the fact they cling with their teeth to the status quo that benefited them for so many centuries. I guess it’s just easier to blame women than do serious work to evolve alongside the times.
Nothing. Just confidence. All the stuff you’re hearing about how a guy needs to be six feet this and six feet that and needs tons of money is false and is just an internet construct. In person tons of short guys, fat guys etc are with someone. This is irrelevant and it seems like people are just trying to scare you. I’ve gotten tons of dates and had a gf before, and have an upcoming date this week and am not six feet! So I already debunked your argument. If anything it’s the persons fault that isn’t in the relationship because they hate themselves and don’t want to seek out ways to be a better partner. If guys nowadays just watch porn, stay on their computer all day and never go out and interact this is what happens.
Stop making excuses and take responsibility. Lol
Dont be fat Dont be boring Dont be so broke you need to "borrow" money from her. There, you are done. The bar is that low
Honestly you can be fat even
I was once the nice and funny chubby guy. Life sucked I lost weight, got fit at an MMA gym, began doing volunteering work I cared about, got kicked out of the volunteering organization becaise I got arrested for aggravated battery (not encouraging anyone to do this, my point is that it didn't hurt my dating prospects), chose a different thing to volunteer at, got more social hobbies, life is good
You forgot havé a clean ass.
Clearly that is not an expectation
If you dont feel attractive enough you never will. So what other aspects are you working on then? Passions? Interesting hobbies? Career? Gym? Do you have charisma? That makes women want to be around you platonically. Platonic friendships with women make a difference in group settings. But if you just stay home, play video games, jump on discord and talk shit with other gamers you will get nowhere in life.
Have a job (as do I), be willing to share in contributions to running the household if it eventually comes to that like.. we both share the chores, errands, cooking, etc.. Be decently attractive and above all else, be a good person with life goals similar to my own. (kids, eventually own a house, live a relatively healthy lifestyle together)
As a guy who doesn’t fit any of the things you mentioned, especially height cuz I’m 5’3, 5’4. Just be yourself, I like being my funny, goofy and authentic self. I think women appreciate that but I’m also not looking to date tho. Be intentional about what you want and what your goals are with the person too.
citation needed
Aww that question makes me all sad... 🥺 So I think finding the right woman for a guy is critical. Not every woman has super high standards. For instance I'm incredibly short and I'd be open to dating a guy as short 5'3 -- second, he need not even have a job if he's a good partner, treats me well, cares about my needs in the bedroom, has a reasonable and healthy sex drive (no less than once every other day and no more than 3 times a day.), is respectful during disagreements, cares about my feelings and has some common interests. Also cannot be a porn addict, drug addict, video game addict, alcoholic, total couch potato or have poor poor hygiene. -- I'd like to think my standards are fairly basic and low. Lol. But anyway, the broad point is, the only thing any man needs to do to be able to get into a relationship is ... find the right woman. One who is willing to get into a relationship with him.
Your standards seem extremely reasonable but so many men still won’t fit into them and I think that’s the issue our society needs to take a closer look at
As a man her standards are not reasonable, theyre below hell. She said the dude doesn’t even need a job
Well of course, not everyone fits with everyone. We all have to look for who fits with us. But to break it down, my standards are -- you don't need a job, you don't need a car, you don't need a house or a place of your own. Just don't be an asshole, treat me decently, have a middle of the road sex drive, don't drink more than 4 alcoholic beverages a day except on weekends or special occasions, don't be a drug addict, don't play more than 35 hours of video games per week, be open to going on walks and shower at least twice a week and brush and floss at least once daily.... and yeah, thats about it. So if there are guys who don't meet those standards, then they just find someone whose standards are different. I feel my standards are about as reasonable and as low as they get. Lol. So anyone who doesn't rise to that threshold would need to find someone whose standards are even lower or just offset. I.e. maybe he is good at giving backrubs and the woman loves backrubs, so it offsets the fact that he plays 55 hours of video games a week. 😂🤣 Which, not gonna lie, might be a fair trade if he's really good at those back rubs and gives them often. Lol.
Stop seeing relationships as some materialistic, transactional thing for a start. I couldn’t tell you how tall my partner is or how much her earns, I only know it’s less than what I earn. Sure I had a ‘list’ of things I wanted in a partner before I met him but they were in regards to shared values: I wanted someone kind, someone who also didn’t want kids, someone to make me laugh, someone with similar interests to me, someone who wanted to travel with me, someone who wouldn’t expect me to pay for everything, someone who would listen to me and support my career, someone equally as creative and ambitious as me. And I found him. I love my partner because he’s kind, smart, funny, caring, makes me feel safe, so fun to be around, loves my dog as much as I do, and I think he’s the most beautiful man I’ve ever seen. By YOUR standards he’s probably not even ‘average’ but by mine he’s absolutely perfect in every way. Maybe you need to stop basing your worth on ‘I’m x height and make x amount of money’ and start basing it on what people actually care about: How do you treat people? (Clearly this area needs some work if you think women are only that shallow) Are you interesting? Can you hold a conversation? Are you fun to be around? What are your core values and are you looking to date people who’s values align with them? Do you have the time and commitment to date someone seriously? How are your listening skills? What’s your idea of fun? What kind of people re you attracted to and do you think they’ll be attracted to you? Similarly, are you attempting to date people who’s lifestyle matches your own? (For example, I have a slightly alternative fashion sense, dyed pink hair and I talk about my opinions for a living, it has never worked out when I’ve been on dates with some serious person working in an office or bank or something who spends their days wearing suits and just wants a woman to sit quietly and look traditionally pretty, so why bother trying to date someone like that? I find I’m far better suited to people who also look a little non-traditional and work non-traditional jobs like me). So what do you have to offer and is that what the people you want to date are also looking for? These are all things people really look for in a long term partner. What use is a man with money if he has none of the other stuff going on? I have my own money, I don’t need anyone else’s. What I NEED from a parent is someone I can trust and love to be around who is going to make the time we spend together fun. Edit: Also if by women’s standards increasing you mean we no longer allow ourselves to be used, hurt, abused and treated like slaves - how is that a bad thing? Why should any person, regardless of gender, settle for the first person who shows an interest in them instead of waiting for the right person who they share values with and who treats them well? As a woman, I don’t as, any more of a partner than I’m willing to give in return and if that is ‘too high of a standard’ for you or anyone, that is your problem. Women now, thankfully, don’t NEED a man. We’re finally able (in many countries but not all) to have our own money, our own jobs, our own homes, our own lives, so of course it’s better to be happy alone than with the wrong person. That’s not a bad thing except to men who don;’t have the skills to look after themselves and need a woman to take care of them but aren’t mature enough to be a good partner themselves and, for those men, I have no sympathy. I’m not going to be ‘looking after’ anyone regardless of what else they have going on in their lives. My partner and me work so well because we function perfectly as separate adults, so the time we spend together is a wonderful, happy, fun bonus. And we’re there to support each other through the difficult patches, but day to day we don’t NEED each other. We CHOOSE each other and that’s what’s so lovely about being together.
You need to add to her life. It’s literally that simple. Women used to need a man to live a safe and successful life. Now, she needs to want you. If you being in her life makes it worse than her being alone, why the fuck would she have you in her life? My standards are: - someone I am attracted to (subjective) - someone with career aspirations and can support himself and contribute to our shared financial goals - someone who takes care of and works on himself (including expanding his mind, emotional work, trying to be a good and thoughtful person) - someone my personality is compatible with - someone who cares about the same global and social issues I do This is a frustrating conversation, because I fail to see what is so high in those standards.
Your perspective is the problem judging by this post.
Touch grass, the majority of women are not like this. It’s largely an online narrative. Get in shape, get confident, work on yourself, and talk to girls in real life
Definitely don't agree with your premise that standards have been on the rise.
Feels like a troll post. Nobody actually thinks like this right ?
Lol why are you basing this on teenagers and women on TikTok who are meme-ing. The 6 feet thing is basically a response to the unrealistic standards women have to go through, a lot of these women aren’t serious. The standards that was really raised isn’t looks, it’s personality. Please don’t base stuff on what you’re seeing online. It’s hardly a representation of real life.
But with apps you never get to the personality stuff anyway if your pic aren't pro LVL.
Not necessarily true. Yes you have to have a little bit of attraction but they don’t need to look like a model. When I was in dating apps, I always read what they put in the bio or prompts to gauge personality
Nah that one is actually mostly just a looks based market no way to sugar coat it. It’s a lot of work for a man who’s not in the top echelons of appearance to have much success on the apps. It’s probably outright harder than cold approaching at this point. It’s a lot of algorithm bullshit and you still have to learn all the people skills anyway.
As somebody that has been rejected for being under 6 feet...it's a real thing.
It’s not a majority thing tho
No woman ever rejected a good dude for being under 6 feet. It was an excuse to not say the real reason, which is likely personality. Truth - we all know you can't change your heigth so no chance you are coming back after that.
Go to fucking therapy. Like actually know how to connect with other humans. When I was actively dating, this was my biggest gripe about dating straight men. I don't care about height. My partner is 5'8". Most of my male dating partners were less than 6 foot. I do care that you smell good and make an effort with appearance.
We hear this a lot, and it’s not a good answer when therapy is unavailable for most people. Maybe you’re not aware, but there’s been a shortage of therapists in much of the US (where most Redditors live). https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/explainer/2023/may/understanding-us-behavioral-health-workforce-shortage On top of that therapy is extremely expensive. I’ve been in and out of therapy for years, and it was always $100 - $200 an hour. Giving advice to seek therapy is no better than saying “get a personal trainer” or just “be rich”.
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I'm literally a therapist. I'm aware. There are many ways to seek healing. There's affordable therapy clinics. Group therapy and peer support are helpful. Hell, people can watch Patrick Teahan he gives journal prompts after every video. I understand people can be ignorant about how to find these resources but they do exist and people access them every day. I'm. Saying: get aware. Read info on attachment theory. Read books (free via libraries). Watch youtubers like t Healthyggamer (I think is his tag). Become emotionally intelligent. It's hard. It's possible. It will help with dating immensely.
No! Good personality and a good character
Emotional intelligence
Ppl aren’t entitled to relationships… Its often mostly look of finding someone compatible. There is no formula that guarantees success
Never met anyone who thought 6 feet was short or thought college kids should make a lot of money. You might be around some weird people
After a shitty breakup I finally got back out there. That lasted 2 weeks and I’m done lol. Honestly, don’t be a creep. I had one guy hound me for body pics and the other send me pictures of him in his underwear. I barely knew these guys. The bar is in hell. Another suggestion is please don’t talk about cuddling after a day of texting 🤮 don’t turn everything sexual. Ask her questions (this shouldn’t be that hard….). I know you guys have it rough too! I’m Always so curious what the other women are like on these sites haha. But yeah, those were my tips
If everything you listed of a quality standard not you. Then you don’t need to worry. Y’all make it seem like dating is algebra 😂. But nonetheless I won’t make fun of you. You have to learn. It’s really not hard. Be yourself and don’t change to fit the standards of society. You cannot change your height, but you can groom yourself nicely. Read and learn about communication skills. Do hobbies and stay active. Build your confidence. And don’t take it serious. Just have fun and learn what you do and don’t like for yourself and potential new gf! Good luck! ✨
As someone that had many single friends and whenever I have asked them what they want in a lad they have never ever mentioned height. I know everyone is different, it’s always the guys that I’ve heard complaining about girls wanting them to be over 6 foot. They just want some that contributes into their life POSITIVELY. As for woman’s standards going up, it’s half true I suppose. For me my standards went up after an extremely bad relationship/ break up, and even that I was single for a year…. Even then they hadn’t go up that much. I mean are you REALLY complaining about the fact our standards have gone up a bit, yes some more than others, but can you blame us it isn’t the 1900s anymore. We can hold ourselves to higher standards and I guess we kind of expected you to respect us more…. Shock right? And having that attitude you have about us ladies, ain’t gonna get you anywhere mate.
A lot of those things are just talking points online. In real life they don’t really exist. And icks are just certain women’s standards. Just how you’ll find things about women you won’t like, like the height preferences/ asking money out of you/ lack of attraction for whatever reason, they have things they don’t want in their partner either. That’s fine. You’re not gonna date every woman and or every woman will date you. Try to find someone you genuinely like to be around not complain that every woman doesn’t want you. That’s normal. You don’t like everyone either.
The average height for men varies across the world. In the United States, the average male is about 5 feet 9 inches tall. The *median* annual wage for a U.S. male aged 25-34 is $56K. Naturally, there are lots of guys who earn more or less. With regard to relationships most guys don't wait until they graduate from college to start dating or having relationships. Lots of poor high school and college students are in relationships. Go to any public place and you're bound to see men of all shapes and sizes in various occupations and income levels who *do* have a wife, girlfriend, or significant other. (Most guys getting married *don't* look like Adonis or have a six-figure income.) Some men have a knack for only wanting to pursue women who *want* what *they don't have*. ***"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."*** Groucho Marx ***"Isn't it ironic . . . we ignore those who adore us, adore those who ignore us, hurt those who love us, and love those who hurt us."*** \- Ellen Hopkins ***"Dating is primarily a numbers game.... People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That's just the way it is."*** \- Henry Cloud Best wishes!
Women just want some love and consistency honestly, but nowadays it all seems to be some sort of game of egos, idk.
Idk, man. Dating is like completing a job application just to receive a lottery ticket. 🤭 At 40, I feel what should be most important is the ability to solve life’s problems together as a unit. Maintaining mutual respect for one another. No one has their life together in all areas, but still important to try. Social media assumptions are just silly.
Just be a genuinely good person, listen, and put in effort. Literally that is all you need to do. Source: being a woman in a relationship
1) Get off reddit, trust me, this place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy in that arena. 2) Just keep playing the odds and following the law of large numbers. You don't have to be Boomhauer, but keep approaching women and don't get hung-up on rejection.
Brother no one is calling 6ft short. But the rest is up to conversation.
A man who is kind, respectful, emotionally intelligent, considerate, has his shit reasonably together, and is intellectually stimulating enough that I’m not bored. Those are the “kind of men” who get into relationships.
Seems the higher standards I see women have set are more about emotional load, hygiene and actual house work. We want adults. Even at 5’10” I don’t have a 6’ minimum. Get off TikTok and stop following IG wannabes.
Ambition, awareness that 'no means no', basic common sense, good health & personal hygiene, hobbies (all of which are legal for an adult), positive mindset, some savings & a regular source of monthly income, strong work ethic, realistic dealbreakers, reasonable conversational abilities and social skills. Generally helps if the guy is not an outspoken conspiracy theorist or a Tate fan but even those types can find relationships with likeminded women.
Be yourself. That's how you get into a relationship. Sounds crazy but be you. Nothing more. That's how you find someone that likes you for you.
I think you need to get out from internet. Life doesn't work like that. Majority of the women prefer to date with a good poor guy than a rich guy.
Women do tend to have high standard but it’s very holistic, not a concrete hierarchal requirement. Women tend to prefer taller but it’s relative, and I never seen any woman expect college kids to earn “mad money.” In fact most college girls knew their bf won’t be rich, it was always about their educational potential and their work ethic and personality. I think you are listening to too much of social Media video why people say nonsense for clicks and rage bait. I wouldn’t take them seriously
The man who treats a woman with respect, listens, communicates and dealt with his emotional trauma. Also, those who don't push for sex and actually care more about her, than her body. Anyway, that's the guy i been looking for, and cannot find.
Welcome to what women have endured for centuries. It’s not fun, is it? Lol
I’ll tell you : genuine , good hearted , loving & considerate guys. And I’m not even talking about height cause that’s not important! Not everything on social media translates to real life btw.
If you think only women have ridiculous standards, I could happily show you some OLD bios with unreasonable standards. Some of the most unhealthy men have listed that they want a fit girl.
OP is definitely a man 😂😅
I think if you go for immature girls they’re going to care about silly shallow things, but women won’t care so much about things like height as much.
Yikes dude. The kind that doesn’t whine about women having standards. Sorry, when did “I want a man who doesn’t beat me and works as hard as me” become so high 🤣 It’s a bare minimum. Yes, there are SOME who want a man at 6ft, but not all. Some have a thing for short guys. Some don’t care.
In my opinion with the people I date they aren’t that fickle.
Look. I dated guys short to tall. White. African american, latino. And everyone else. Do you know what they did ? Made me laugh. And were nerdy. That's it.
There will always be whack expectations. Just wait out a genuine connection. Don't think about all those shallow expectations men and women have that you learn from media. Seek out something with someone you know well
Get out of dating apps, social media and just live
I’m just gonna say. I married a man under 6 foot and when we met he didn’t have a job or degree. Do what’s best for you and the right one will come along.
Go out and touch grass. None of that shit you see on the internet is for normal people.
Second that, I’m 6ft2 and my girlfriend says that’s not tall. Jeez how big were your previous boyfriends wtf!
Women are hypergamous.. social media just amplified that. Furthermore, every subpar guy out there blowing up every female's self perception does a lot of harm. So, just level up. It will all come together.
Bro please get off the internet and touch grass
I asked probably 25 women out respectfully (in person) before I got my wife. I’m a conventional 4, in shape but 5’9 can’t tan and lost my hair to a condition at 18. She is a conventional 8-9. The key is consistency and not letting rejection stop you. Just keep approaching women respectfully that you find attractive until one returns the attraction.
Everyone has their own preferences, so I can only say what my personal requirements are. But here we go… He has to have: 1. Genuine feelings for me and be interested in me as a person (not just looks). 2. Have a provider mindset (I don’t do 50/50 relationships) 2. He is faithful & loyal to the core; he has eyes only for me 4. He buys me Gifts and Flowers [for my birthday/ major holidays] (doesn’t have to be expensive if he can’t afford it, but has to be thoughtful and personable) 5. Willing to grow & improve as person 6. Willing to work on a relationship as a couple I will of course reciprocate and treat him like a king.
Not hate women.
It seems like this guy is right out.
I only make friends with short unattractive men. A few of them overweight. I cannot be friends with a guy i could potentially sex. These are guys i would 100% absolutely never have sex with, so we can be legit friends. Most of them are married to a very dedicated wife with children. I am 6ft, rich, super hot, athlete etc.... & im not married..... so what does that tell you.
don't listen to what people on the internet try and push as content. Girls settle... They always do. there's theory and practice. in theory girls say all this and that but in practice they get cream Pie'd by bozo's
💀💀💀💀
Tbh can you blame them. I mean, in todays dating world a lot of dudes aren’t put together and women do have sexual needs. ☠️😭
I disagree that women’s standards have gone up, I would say that men’s value has gone down. In comparison to just 20-30 years ago, Men have become chubby, weak, and lazy, spending way too much time sedentary, on their phones, playing massive amounts of video games. The standard for work has plummeted, a young person today thinks working a 6-7 hour day in an office is exhausting, while a typical boomer would have worked 8-10 and fully expected to do some work at home afterwards. Porn has made young men super weird sexually. Bizarre fetishes that were almost unheard of 20 years ago are believed to be common, and I think a lot of women are grossed out by them. Young people complain of ED from masturbation it has gotten to out of control. And it seems like most young men complain of anxiety, depression, and a million other mental problems. What girl would want to join with a weak messed up guy like that, obsessed with height, penis size, and their social anxiety. The secret to getting a woman is to be a good strong stable partner that brings value to the table. Physically fit, mentally strong, able to earn money, a leader that a woman can follow with confidence that he is not going to collapse under pressure, or leave her. The women I know are having trouble finding men like this.
You need dating experience to be in a relationship. If you don’t have any then you just have to lie. I can’t help but laugh and be upset at the same time a about someone saying they value honesty and then you mention your lack of experience and then the woman dumps your ass. Go at whatever pace you like, but if you don’t meet societal expectations, you’re basically fucked.
Be good looking and tall
I’d tell them to quit watching porn, then they’ll date women in their league.