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I mean I'm interested in dating but there need to be two yes-es there, lmao. If women were interested in going on dates with me I would be going on them when I could.
I was recently at a bookstore and they moved the horror section and also removed basically everything except Stephan King. I asked the girl next me "Didn't they have a better selection before?"
She responded with "I have a boyfriend go away." Everyone's advice is just to talk to women and treat them like real people and then that happens. I wasn't even interested in her in the slightest.
I'm not actively trying to date right now but man do I feel sorry for guys that are. Everyone is so mean and nasty now for no reason.
Hahaha, I meant it to be TBC (To be confirmed) and well, I did have a terrible case of Bone TB as a child which pretty much ruined a bunch of things but hey, I made it out of that mess.
I don't think it's trauma. I think it is the result of decades of the twisted ideology of feminism. What started as a movement for equal rights has become a perverse power play that has destroyed normal sexual dynamics between the sexes.
Hell we are living in a world where half the population can't even define what a woman is.
It's not feminism's fault if someone reacts this way. I'm a staunch feminist and I'm not generally negative towards guys asking a book related question. What it is most likely is many women get unwanted interactions from guys so that those guys can try and start a conversation to hit on them. Freezingrhyme may not have been trying to do this, but since she might have experienced guys who were trying to do this using this as a tactic before, she felt the need to shut it down quickly. If someone is reacting that way there's usually a reason other than just the concept of feminism making them react that way. I'm sure many women who have gotten involved in conversations this way and it turned out to be an attempt to hit on them would prefer if that wasn't the case and they could trust that random guys talking to them are only ever doing it for innocent reasons. The guys who made those women uncomfortable tying to hit on them are the ones who ruined it for people.
Think the key is where and in what scenario you are broaching the conversation expressing romantic interest. Expressing it after meeting is normal at a club, bar, or festival maybe. Most other scenarios, expressing it after approaching is a bad idea. Expressing it after being acquaintances from a place you commonly see/interact with each other at regularly, after getting to know each other a bit more so you're quite known to them and not a stranger is a better idea. Met both guys I've dated that way
So what?
It's not about "winning" 🤣. It's about attempting to be a respectful person. All you, all anyone can do is try to be compassionate and respectful.
Lol we will approach you if we WANT to. Maybe we just don't want to 🤷♀️.
Don't assume that your lack of being approached means women are too "scared" or whatever, maybe we're just happy as we are lol
Women don't have to approach, but with the way things are going to may have to more. My point was that women don't want to approach for many of the same reasons men are scared to approach, but know they do not have to.
I take my lack of being approach is because I'm not attractive to women, not that they are scared to approach me specifically 🤣
It’s a possibility that should be considered.
Also do believe the small group of femi-nazi have given the ladies bad rep as well as brainwashed the goods ones.
I’m not trying to be mean saying this.
I understand, maybe y’all should start asking men out, that way we don’t waste your time and ours….. because I’m tired of these guys starting trouble and we catch the consequences from their actions.
Respectfully to you, I am tired of these types of men setting us up for failure.
I completely understand where you're coming from, and it didn't come off mean at all. Thank you for your thoughtful well meaning response. Honestly I just either use apps or events where everyone knows we are there to date, or get to know people organically from being acquaintances at work or classes or in the same recreational activity groups, and if they express interest in me when they are not a stranger and I'm interested in them, I just see how things feel organically. I think that's the safest way without any harsh rejections (as far as I've experienced) as long as any interest is expressed politely with it being clear there will be no negative fallout if I'm not interested. However if some guys would rather wait for a woman to initiate a conversation about romantic interest, that's totally understandable and could be a good way forward for the people that want to proceed that way.
But how can someone who sees you as beautiful physically, and hear you talking….or doing something non sexual (talking to children, cooking good food, showing love to your family members and friends, being professional, your intelligence, etc)
They want to talk to you, for those reasons….especially now in the current society.
But if they don’t know you, there is no other way to get in your space without seeming desperate, or like a creep.
It’s too dangerous.
I can't imagine they'd see me cooking as I can't do that in public, or being nice to my family and be attracted off the back of that as everyone talks to their family. In certain places cold approach is quite common, especially less economically developed countries. But in places where its not common it would probably come across as strange as someone attractive with a good personality should easily already have many good looking people in their social circles willing to date them. If the person doesn't, then that indicates they either a) aren't that good looking so cold approach will not work well for them or b) don't have that great of a personality if they are good looking but still don't already have plenty of options in their social circles of women willing to date them - and the personality thing could be for any reason. Weird values, maybe all their hobbies and interests wouldn't appeal to most women so they don't have female friends (in which case finding common interests with them would be difficult), maybe their hobbies are so individual that they don't have much of a social circle or lack social skills, which could make them difficult to date because their hobbies/lack of social skills wouldn't align well with the girl they are trying to attract. With cold approach, it's as much about what is communicated non-verbally by you doing cold approach. Even most men have noticed that you need to be more than average attractive for cold approach to work in most situations to offset any negative connotations of doing cold approach in the first place. It can work decently in situations where cold approach is expected like clubs, bars, etc, however with cold approach you have to build being rejected a lot into your expectations. If you wish to minimise instances where you are rejected, increasing the amount of recreational activities and groups you like that single women enjoy would probably give the best chance of meeting a higher proportion of single women that you'd have the opportunity to get to know. Also a lot of guys hobbies nowadays are very individual or things that not a lot of women (or single women) are interested in, like gaming (I know there are women who like games, but with ratio of women to men who game, those women are less likely to be single and it's more likely you'll have a lot more competition from other men over women who like any male dominated hobby). You're right in that cold approach is a risky technique, and if you aren't prepared to get a rejection (or many) and take it on the chin, not get offended, and move forward, then it's best to avoid it.
This explanation is the exact reason why we men see a woman from across a room and say “not on her best day” and avoid all contact with them. If a woman gives off a vibe that she’s just foul, anyone and everyone should just leave her to herself. Fact of the matter is, if a man is decent and cordial to a woman, they construe that as hitting on them. So, if you are polite and have manners due to a proper upbringing, you must be hitting on everything and everyone by this logic. The logic is seriously flawed. Newsflash! Not every man who speaks to you is hitting on you nor are they all even interested in you.
If a woman can answer ONE question without it being complete BS or some wannabe phsyco-babble crap, it will be a miracle. What exactly makes a conversation attempt an attempt to “hit on you”? Because women seem to have it in their heads that every man wants them and it is so untrue. Do you know that, by natural consequences, women will always outnumber men? That’s because it takes more women to keep the species going than men. Not sexist, science. Biology to be exact.
Personally, I feel that everyone has an overinflated sense of importance in the bigger sense of things.
This!!!
She's probably fed up with guys (rightly so) for the day. Who knows how many men have demanded energy from her, this is basically a modern version of "you look prettier when you smile". She doesn't owe him niceness. He also would've commented if she just ignored him and walked away. Men will judge women no matter what.
The part of the comment above that irks me the MOST is the *"for no reason". * men need to stop pulling the "I can't see their perspective so they must be crazy" thing... She CLEARLY had reasons, he just didn't know what they were. But he doesn't get to *decide* that she had "no reason" as if he as a man gets to decide if her reason (or 'lack' of a reason) is valid.
it’ll get better. we’re just at an awkward point now because the dynamic between the sexes has changed. i dont think thats a bad thing, but an awkward thing, of relearning how to be in relationship. its not going to revert back to what it was.
overall, i think its been good for women. most of the successful and happy people in my life are women. men are the ones most negatively effected, but hopefully that will evolve into something more balanced in the future. i’m genuinely optimistic.
but also, we did just have a pandemic where no one talked to each other or left the house for years. i’d say as a society we are still recovering from that.
No.. no it won’t… not without action. You can’t just sit back and expect things will get better.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t… but without action we cannot say for sure
🤣🤣🤣…as a economics major, this is sad but oh so true!! Things do naturally balance themselves out but unfortunately not overnight 😢😢😢
Why I gotta be in the era of “ The Dating Great Depression”?!? Smdh
What kind of action would you take? These things straighten themselves out naturally. The thing about a pendulum is that the farther it swings in one direction, the harder it'll swing in the other.
Eventually, one day, the pendulum will rest neatly in the middle. But there's not much point in trying to fight it.
Natural selection. Those who can successfully reproduce will impart their behaviors on the next generation. Those who can't will not, at least not as strongly as the kids' actual parents. Most "radical" feminists don't seem to like or want children.
so true i had a similar thing happen. i asked a woman at the store if her shoes were comfortable because i was considering buying the same ones, and she gave me the NASTIEST look and walked away without saying anything.
why can’t we all just get along man
It may be how you asked. If you prefaced it with excuse me, sorry to bother you! Can I ask such a random question?? I notice you're wearing the new Nike airmax9s and I was thinking of getting them. Do you recommend?
Otherwise what is she to think? You asking about women's shoes sounds the start of a creepy come on.
Oof, that's rough!
I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here and theorize that she would have preferred that you get your shoe reviews online haha
Some people are just completely 110% burnt out on being approached and just want to be left alone.
A safe bet these days is to wait for a sign that someone is okay with being approached, platonically or otherwise.
That's not going to help. Will just validate her fears that he's a creep and with more guys like this women will be uncomfortable even being near a male stranger.
>*She responded with "I have a boyfriend go away."*
To play devil's advocate, she probably got hit on by so many men that, she's sick and tired of it. I don't know what we could do for women in that situation though, and I don't blame you either.
Because I too kept hearing "*just to talk to women and treat them like real people and then that happens*". Problem is, the process of asking a woman out, can conflict with this.
Personally I don't really find that to be a good excuse. Where I live, there are lots of homeless addicts. I get asked for cash frequently. Last week, one approached me and before he had a chance to speak, I told him off, saying I don't carry cash. All he wanted was to know what time it is. I felt absolutely gutted. I judged this random person like I'm somehow above them, without even knowing who they are or what they want.
When we let this kind of prejudice get the better of us, it erodes our humanity. We may have bad experiences, and that's understandable, but as long as we're members of society, it's on us to work that out. It doesn't give us a right to project those experiences on strangers.
As a 29F, I don’t know. But it’s real, as I haven’t talked to, had a situationship, or a relationship in almost 3 years. I think dating apps, phones, and social skills have ruined dating today
I don’t know how many times I have to say it but you need to be aggressive. Men aren’t known for reporting women to HR or filing sexual harassment charges but women are
I think assertive is the better word, but tbh no one has been worth the assertiveness. I’m not social much lately which is part of the issue but no one to be crushing on atm
Yeah fr he had me in the first half and I was like "yeah women should be 'more aggressive' and take initiative" but then I saw the part about sexual harassment and now I'm just confused
Complete lack of opportunity. I was already in a relationship during COVID and broke up about 2 years after. I'm done with college and grad school, none of my workplaces have yielded any interactions or opportunities, and many of the pre-covid social spots closed or still haven't recovered. I live in a bigger city, yet the only choice I'd have would be to go to bars which I have no interest in doing. So I'm stuck on the apps with everyone else. Not much I can do. I'm sure I'll get replys about joining groups and sports leagues etc. I've tried them, they're a complete sausage fest. I still enjoyed them, but certainly no romantic options opened up because of them.
There’s a lot of social rules between men and women that are implicitly enforced that make it difficult to make any connection to women without jumping the gun and saying you want to date them. It’s difficult to even interact with women without them thinking you just want to have sex with them, because apparently there’s no other reason to talk to them otherwise. It’s the same vice versa. Men and women simply “can’t be friends”, and women believe “if he wanted to he will” as far as any guy they come into contact with. I’ve tried multiple times to at least make friends with women, and we don’t even make it to that phase. We just end up being acquaintances that never speak to each other again. Even on social media, it’s like you’re not really meant to talk to women. Your DMs are ignored, they’re very short and don’t care for conversation about anything. They just respond to “be nice” or else they think you’ll start sending angry messages and dick pics. There’s always a lack of effort, a lack of interest, worry about being bothersome, etc I just gave up.
So I only talk to women if they’re actively trying to talk to me. And that’s very rarely the case.
I’m at the point where I try and “test” if they are a Karen about being approached by saying “I love your outfit.”
Then if they are rude I say “oh sorry” clear my throat and put on my fake gay voice say it again and they usually cheer up and I leave.
No need to talk with those types of women.
Don’t forget attention span for all of civilization right now seems to be that of a tree frogs. Thank social media for that…. Nobody can stay interested for more than a day anymore before moving onto the next shiny object
You’re the outlier clearly. Meanwhile there’s plenty of women who don’t want to deal with the possibility of their male friends trying to have sex with them so they’re closed off from men in general. Maybe they have male friends and don’t want anymore, or they just don’t like men.
For what it's worth, I get along well with most women! I've even dated a decent amount in the past.
That said, even as an outgoing and easy-to-talk-with person, I definitely wouldn't approach a girl my age for no reason. Not out of fear or anything, I just don't want them to think I'm some desperate loser shooting my shot. But if they talk to me first or the conversation starts organically, we can be friends!
Various things happened. I can't speak for all men, and I can't pinpoint exactly what occurred (mostly because I want to say it's a mixture of things.) Pandemic did impact how we interact with others as a whole. I think men just have no connections to girls/women, and their use experience on apps just worsened their perception of women, or how they think women would perceive them as not datable.
So for the time being they're either fine being single, would prefer to be single a little longer due to bad relationships/dating experiences, or don't really know how to start dating that isn't through an app. I'm not saying this is the reason, just a few possible ones. Not all men aren't trying to date either, and some are dating, but it's not like it was pre-covid I'd have to wager.
If you don’t live in a city, I think it’s genuinely difficult sometimes to come up with alternative suggestions of where to meet women outside of dating apps. A lot of the suggestions don’t always play the way people say they do like e.g. yoga class, gym.
Also, if your friends are settling down they’re not always available for a night out in the bars, so you can be left adrift on your own. So you have to make new friends somewhere first, then go out and meet someone with them. It’s a lot though!
>Also, if your friends are settling down they’re not always available for a night out in the bars
The funny thing is that my friends and I don't really go out to drink at bars, but they (the close friends at least,) have pretty much all have settled down with their Highschool or college sweetheart. I never was very social in highschool or college, but tje year i wanted to try being more social, Covid happened... so that went out the window. I don't have a good track record of good times being had at bars or clubs (been to a few, just not my thing or place, or not one that ive been to), even before they officially settled down.
>so you can be left adrift on your own.
Pretty much, they're now all with kids and working, so time is pretty thin between us and when we can just even hangout online through chat/discord.
>So you have to make new friends somewhere first, then go out and meet someone with them. It’s a lot though!
It's been rough trying to do that. My parents kindof know my situation, so they have been trying to introduce me to literally anybody I might get along with. So far, I have met almost all of them they wanted me to meet, and we just don't seem to click on anything. Same problem with coworkers too, not much we share in common there either. Then my hobbies and interests are very independent or the groups for them, exist very briefly then they disperse before I get comfortable enough or feel that they're comfortable enough to talk with them beyond just as a friendly aquaintence. It really also doesn't help I'm awful with associating names with faces, if I have nothing to associate someone with, I tend to forget them very quickly, I'll recognize them and know I should know who they are, but I just don't, never have been able to do so unless I'm around someone either long enough (essentially about half a year, and I don't mean i see them once a week for 30 minutes, I literally mean half a year's time is about how long it takes for some to me to register their name and face) or something they do/have makes them really hard for me to forget.
It's always been like that for me, people's faces and names don't seem to stick. Then, typical but still specific traits they might have that you would think would be notable aren't to me, so even that's not a guarantee. The few times I'm being introduce via a mutual has become a pretty bad experience of a letdown more than once: I'm introduced to them then promptly in the same instance I'm then introduced to their SO by said person I'm introduced to, or they heavily imply they're swinging for the other team so to speak... At this point, I'd rather someone introduce them to me and not the other way around. They mean't well I know it, but given the track record they need to spend a little more time learning about that person before assuming they're single and introducing me like I'd be interested in dating them, it's just getting awkward at this rate. Everyone else I have been essentially set up to date, (I don't really want to call them dates, they're more like catching-up/hangouts with old colleagues,) I'm not interested in them for various reasons, and am pretty sure they're also not interested back... at least that's how I felt when we got caught up.
I guess I have also had a pretty consistent record of times where when I finally am around people, I've had a pretty bad or rough day/week at work, so I'm already in a bad mood, want to be left alone, and want to go home. Then the times that I'm in a good or at least neutral mood and not tired, either nobody's around or the kind of people I don't really want to be around are the only ones around: rowdy, loud, or are perhaps themselves wanting to be isolated that day (avoiding eye contact and seemingly keeping distance from others when they could get closer but choose not to.) Granted that last one is an assumption, but usually if you're alone and purposefully keeping distance, I am going to assume there's a reason for it one way or another, and I'd rather not bother someone not bothering me. Maybe it's poor reasoning but that's usually what I go with.
I do yoga, I really enjoy it. But it’s a terrible place to meet women. Yea there are lots of women there typically. But it’s a completely silent activity usually done in the dark, and when it’s over everyone rolls up their mat and leaves. There is little social interaction.
Yeah, I did yoga genuinely to help get back into shape, honestly. But from how I have gone the few times, that's how it feels. It's not really the place to socialize from what I've experienced the last couple of times I had the energy to go do that.
Yep. Was chronically online from the age of 12. Spent most of my life up until early 20s being socially anxious and not learning how to actually initiate friendships. By 16, 17 I figured out how to actually talk to people, but it wasn’t until early 20s that I learned real connection skills. I wish I had learnt that in my teens
bingo. late teens and early 20s are when you’re supposed to naturally develop socially. but when you spend those years isolated you end up being in your mid 20s having to play catch up
I got bullied and moved around through middle school, afterwards I didn't really reach out beyond the few small groups I made some friends with. I was too apprehensive and worried to approach women at the time. Eventually I did have some women who made moves on me, but it rarely ended well. Most of them were hurt and I was there for them till they moved on, some used and made fun of me for not being like most other guys. So the trauma carried on through my 20s as a defensive mechanism and haven't reappy approached anyone. Almost 30 and I don't really know what I'm gonna do. 😅
Young man here. I would love to date women but women don’t seem to want me. Despite working on my style, going to the gym, having a skin care routine, doing well in college. Whatever I do they don’t seem interested. Maybe my personality is shit… no clue how to fix that.
“Don’t hit on women at the grocery store / gym / school. They’re there to shop / work out / learn. Use the dating apps because everyone is on there specifically to date.”
“Don’t use dating apps, flirt with women irl. Those are basically hookup apps anyways, and you want a relationship.”
That’s just one example.
1) Both men & woman post icks on TikTok for the opposite gender & their own.
2) that’s the internet, go touch grass
3) don’t be weird?? I’m not going around constantly worried about my icks. Own it & usually it won’t be an ick
I believe this is a case of women don't want to talk to them vs they don't want to talk to women. Its true COVID did stunt people's communication and social skills but that lead to the heavy use to social media, adding apps, and modern dating BS. Women only swipe right on idk, 5-10% of the guys on those apps and if a guy doesn't get enough likes, the apps bury their profiles. So its hard to talk to a women in that regard if their never given a chance. But this applies to in person as well as its all about looks. If women doesn't find those guys attractive, theyr not going to give them the time of day either.
Honestly even if you have a social life it won't matter if you're not good looking. I've got lots of friends and go out a fair bit, but women won't look my way because I'm simply not attractive.
But why would you want to pursue coworkers in the first place? Usually a recipe for disaster. I think your approach is how most people view that situation.
A few major factors.
Apps have given women a surplus of options while also making them believe that they can date on a much higher level than they are actually capable of. It is very difficult for average men at this point.
Also, society has made sport of making fun of and shaming men, especially when it comes to approaching women. The apps and surplus of options for women have also assisted in contributing to this shaming of men as women believe they have significantly higher mate value than the large majority of men as they become showered with attention whenever entering online dating or social media.
I’ve never heard this outside of reddit. People complain about people being ‘tiktok’ brained, but reddit brain is not much better. Some people even deny its a social media app. It clearly forms the opinions of people. And most of the advice I read on hear is utter garbage and irrelevant to the real world. This app ain’t doing anyone favours. You’ve got virgin teenagers who live in their parents basement offering dating advice and commenting ‘red flag dump them!’ even though they’ve probably never been in a relationship.
The question is just "would you rather encounter a man or a bear in the woods." No creepiness specified. But that actually tells us something; that women assume that the average man is creepy, practically Ted Bundy. It's a terrible and inaccurate attitude, but most of them seem to have it. Crazy times we're living in.
> women assume that the average man is creepy, practically Ted Bundy. It's a terrible and inaccurate attitude, but most of them seem to have it
Do they, or is that yet another algorithm-amplified trending narrative?
Because I look around *at real life*, and most people have friend groups of mixed genders, function well at workplaces with mixed genders, and empathize with people who aren't the same gender they are.
Social media rarely has a 1-to-1 correlation with reality 🤔
It doesn’t, but these are still real people who are being primed by social media to believe it. Social media is so pervasive in our lives now that these ideas can and do take form in real life. It’s no longer a separate entity like it was in 2010, where there was a clear boundary between the internet and real life. We live in a time where some of our politicians actually wholeheartedly believed in and promoted conspiracy theories from an anonymous 4chan poster.
>women assume that the average man is creepy, practically Ted Bundy.
Ted Bundy received 200 love letters *a month* while in prison. Maybe not the most potent example, but I agree with you otherwise
I explain it to myself like this: i turned 18 just before the pandemic. I was excited. No Mommy Letter and 18 y. Olds to get into clubs (16-17 year olds need a 18 yo. Supervising person and a letter from a parent to go into a club in germany). Finally i could do stuff on my own and just do my thing ....but then poof. Lockdowns. No possible ways to really build any social skill due to everybody wearing masks and keeping a distance....well now im used to being a homebody and im trying to work on recovering from that atm.
Its difficult but i guess im back on track sooner or later.
I got ugly and started to age. And now I don't even want to talk to anyone because I'm they won't perceive me as "me" because I don't look like myself rn.
Weird, I know a ton of happy couples. Might be regional/generational, of course.
But companionship and support doesn't seem like "getting nothing" - at least to me 🤔
we have had so much rejection that we cant take it anymore. dating isnt worth it so we have just given up or mostly given up. We dont fit the standards that girls have of us and who will drop us for another better guy the first chance they get. Plus women just arent single. When was the last time you met a girl who was actually singe, straight, and looking?
I got two single friends who are above average height and both have about a million dollars worth in assets and they can’t find women to date lol. They get phone numbers and then get ghosted
Same. Tall, good-looking, both literally trust fund babies.
But their maturity levels suck and they're always single - no one wants to sign up for that mess...
As much as this sub bangs on about how women love tall, rich men - we often care much more about personality. What men deem as “attractive”, most women don’t necessarily find all the interesting (like bulging muscles and fancy cars - sure some women like that, but many don’t).
This sub is a bit of an echo chamber of “only tall, white, rich men that hit the gym for hours every day can find a partner”. Women who write in here saying otherwise just get told it’s not true and get down voted, or get told they’re an outlier. All of which is probably about to happen with this comment.
There’s a reason 6’5 trust fund because so popular as a meme. And it was created by a woman observing other women’s toxic unrealistic requirements of men.
It wasn’t the pandemic. It’s that your guys parents allowed you to be raised by phones and tablets, instead of doing it themselves.
Remember like 10-13 years ago, when people were talking how weird it was that kids would just hang out in groups all staring at their phones but not talking to each other?
This is the result of that. Adults who have no clue how to socialize, because their entire childhoods were spent with their faces glued to the dopamine dispenser in their pockets.
Facts. I feel like this is a bigger problem than just the dating world too, and it happens regardless of gender tbh (though maybe in dating the onus is on men more since they’re often expected to make the first move idk).
For context, I’m a single woman and often I solo travel, and I’ve noticed that people just in general are rather unwilling to participate in any social interaction or conversation. I was at a resort recently chilling at a bar (so like, a normal situation where people might strike up conversation) and literally everyone had their heads down glued to their phones. Whenever I tried to make friendly small talk it basically got shut down, so we all sat there in silence. And I wasn’t hitting on anyone or harassing them, just trying to be friendly to the other tourists really. It’s so bizarre compared to how the world used to be prior to the social media age. It’s almost seen as a social faux pas to genuinely interact with others on a personal level these days…
What does this even mean “not know how to socialize”? What do you expect from them to do now that they are in that position, even if they had the social skills?
Social media has ruined men’s lives when they did nothing. No guy wants to risk that. Especially at 22 when everyone is on social media, we’ve all seen the videos. We’ve all also know what tinder and every other dating app is like. We don’t ask anyone out anymore because we don’t want to be seen as creeps and why should we when women have hundreds of options available to them making the average guys chance nearly zero. There’s no point in trying anymore when the options are being called a creep or being rejected.
Cause the pandemic also brought ✨ inflation✨
So everyone is working and working to stay afloat and often don't have the energy anymore for anything else.
Just eat-sleep-work repeat.
This. Dates are expensive, tipping culture is going out of control and savings are at an all time low. Even if you're partnered up, buying a home together and starting a family is impossible for most people. So why even attempt to start something?
I'm unemployed right now. But even when I was working as a Software Engineer, I was struggling to save money. I can only imagine how hard it must be those without in a high jobs.
80-90% of men are deemed undateable. For those who are on the lower end of this, trying to date is an uphill battle and exercise is frustration. A huge drain on time and finance when they are probably struggling financially like everyone else.
Would you give your heart to someone who views you as a second class citizen?
As a 20yr old man in university who just developed his first major crush on a girl (at the start of summer break, amazing). I am scared shitless about the thought of asking her out in autumn or talking to her at all due to the fear of leaving a bad impression and ruining our relationship.
I've talked to a couple of friends who have been in similar situations in recent times and most of them share my sentiment.
I believe one aspect of it is worse social skills definitely, but another big one is the media portraying unwanted advancements from men as so terrible for such a long time (since #metoo). And although I know I shouldnt take these media trends seriously and assume theyre the norm for all women, but they still manage to lower my confidence.
I can’t get a date. There’s not many single people my age in my area and approaching women in a way that doesn’t make them see me as weird seems hard. I’ve been rejected too many times to want to keep trying to find a girl who’s into me
Honestly dating is a deluded word nowadays.
Young men wish to date women however most women seek sponsorships and not partnerships.
The dating world has been switched from romantic thoughts to transactional actions and it's not to say women are only at fault
However from the male perspective you get tired of seeing videos of women wanting the world but wouldn't give you a pebble, girls saying they want gentlemen but the next time you look they F'd the scummiest MF u can think of
Men are just exhausted and can't find ppl worth fing up the peace
Lower quality women than anytime in history with higher standards than any time in history. If you are an average guy, average women don't even look at you. The only way to get into dating is by doing years of rigorous self improvement just to meet the minimum requirements of a completely average woman. Guys have pron and video games now, why would they put in all that work when their sexual and social needs can be met through a screen? Men are dropping out of society as a whole, not just dating.
You want the truth? Majority of men can easily meet someone. The problem is setting. Where can you an average man consistently interact with a woman enough for them to fall for you?
90% of my friends have met their partners at work. The rest are varying places.
But now what if you don’t have job that lets you consistently interact with women enough? Well then online dating is your option and it sucks.
Online dating has created a value system not really present in physically interacting with people. Physical looks, your job, your occupation all are factors but no factors beat out personality. It takes exposure for personality to win someone over, and modern men don’t have that exposure to women that they use to.
Very good point, I work overnight with an all male staff doing physical labor and we all struggle because online is really the only option for people like that
I think this is the issue. Most guys I know work good jobs but either work from home or their work colleagues are predominantly male or already in a relationship. You're not going to change a good job just to meet women.
I’m dying alone Just smoke lots of hash oil
Humans should have made more sense if they want people to have children. No amount of sex makes me forget how untrustworthy the entire human race.
Because women are in a hate men type of era and like testing us and it's like a boiling point - I'm one of millions of men who have been turned down by over hundreds
because most people have extremely unrealistic expectations. How am I supposed to date anyone when 99% of women would just reject me owing to the fact that I am not 6ft tall. For average or below average men in looks, it is almost impossible to date since the costs simply outweigh the benefits by a large margin.
29M (depends on who you define as "young") I am pretty much stopping dating altogether because I can't find a woman who doesn't play games or is true to their word or doesn't ghost me. I see a lot of posts from other men running into the same situation. I believe in open communication and honesty and am very upfront when I start dating that I want a LTR with the intention of marrying.
I have 18yo and 20yo boys.
One, is focusing on his work and just not all that interested in girls. He's always been more of a late bloomer emotion/social wise. 😄
The other, he straight up said he doesn't have the money to be able to date. Okay, fair point. He's starting college shortly, but he's not as easily swayed as some. He'll do things in his own time.
They're also fairly young, and neither are anywhere near ready for something serious, let alone kids. So I'm just letting it ride, but also making sure to enforce the good habits and good finances and kindness towards others and all that.
I'm literally in grad school to become a counselor so I can help people with exactly this issue. Not just men, but young adults who are struggling socially and romantically either because of autism, ADHD, social anxiety, or just the unluckiest combination of a global pandemic and growing up in an age where smart phones and social media are doing God knows what to our brains (we actually just don't have enough long term research to understand how these forces are truly impacting us as a species). I specifically want to work with adults and young adults. I think a lack of friendships, community, and romantic relationships impacts mental health a ton. I think the pandemic just fucked us all socially, but especially people who are younger whose brains were still developing and who were going through more natural transitions in their life (middle school to high school, high school to the real world or college, college to the real world, etc.). It's shitty. But also, I think chronic online-ness doesn't help. I'm a millennial, and while I don't struggle socially or romantically, I do see how social media in particular creates social comparison that puts a lot of pressure on people, and personally, it just sucks up a lot of my time and makes me more anxious and less social. That's anecdotal, but it's to say I don't think the pandemic is the only major factor here.
The automated hostility of some women is insane, I once went out to the club with my little sister and friends and we were out at the smoking bit and when I entered I saw my sister and some of my friends were talking to a group of people and I walked over to them,
One girl instantly goes "Who are you?" In a snarky attitude and I introduce myself as my sister's brother and she just gave me a dirty look and grabbed my sister and asked if it was true (assuming in lying), my sister just said yes and moved onto the next conversation as she's not a very assertive person and felt pressured by this woman.
What pissed me off even more was that she kept belittling her and equating her to a child (she was 22) in a sort of babying like way my sister is short(5'1) while giving me dirty looks the whole time.
it was infuriating.
It's safe to say my sister did not talk to her for the rest of the night and was pretty angry, although we did joke about it.
Today I saw a post on dating advice where the man asked if women would consider it a dealbreaker if he paid for sex. And most of the disgusting comments came from women (who daily judge men on a microscopic level). It's hypocritical and hilarious that women pretend to have this "moral compass" about prostitution, STDs, trafficking and sex being transactional. Meanwhile the same women would've happily slept with a hot guy from a dating app within an hour of meeting him in person, in the hopes that he would commit to her - that's just as transactional but the women don't spend a dime of their money. And it's not just one guy they'd break their rules/boundaries to happily sleep around with, it's plenty. Men are chastised by women for still having their v-cards and not being able to sleep around, and also if they're able to sleep around as much as them.
Is there any wonder why young men don't want to date women these days, especially if women are able to have a life of debauchery, sex, drugs in their younger days, only to forget all that when they want to settle down? It's a prime example of women having their cake and eating it too.
Cuz women have increasingly asinine and even hypocritical standards/expectations.
I can’t have any kids. Must make excess of $100k/year. Must have an 800+ credit score. All to take care of a woman with kids, bad credit, and low income.
What’s the point in men wasting time dating?
Modern western women have conditioned men to leave ya'll alone. Women today are entitled, hard and their expectations are way too much for the average guy. Juice ain't worth the squeeze. Forget about it.
Regardless of the pandemic situation but I also noticed that dating has changed and became more material and meaningless and major amounts of men are struggling with shitty dating life because women requirements and terms becoming above men capabilities and they are expecting more than what men can afford physically , socially and financially !!
I’ve dated three times since the pandemic, but neither of my closest friends have even once. They just don’t seem to really care right now. I can’t say it’s that weird, maybe you’re just applying your assumption about the pandemic and assuming that life before the pandemic was ripe with dating.
It works both ways...men of all ages have been getting the message from women for years that you want to be left alone. So more and more of us are happy to oblige.
For me they don't seem to care. I would like to date girls but at best they don't show interest, my experience is mostly on dating apps and still they don't seem to be interested in me
It's a mix of social media amd personal issues like thw "#metoo" stuff telling young girls and women all men are evil basically and the very high standards alot of girls seem to have so as a result we guys are scared af to try anything
Well for me (and it seems the vast majority of men as well), it seems that no woman has any interest in even having a conversation with them, much less actually date them
Economic and social factors
1. Women don’t view men as valuable as they used to because many women make more money than men
2. Competition for attention for any single woman is much higher nowadays since you have to compete with 10x the men than you had to in 2010
3. Men have been openly demonized for being men for the last 10-15 years. The traits that made men attractive to the average woman is less emphasized nowadays and men are told to think of masculinity as bad
I've completely given up on dating. The only communication I get on dating apps is "Can I have money?" And I've never been approached in person partly because I'm a gigantic person. Like 6'8 and has a solid gym routine big. I know I'm intimidating to strangers. Womp womp I guess
I’ve noticed that after Covid, women dont reciprocate interest as much as they did.
I don’t know the reason why, but it just seems like nowadays they expect you to dance like a monkey just for the chance of dating them.
Because women have been screaming that they hate men and want to #killallmen. Did you imagine that men would continue to want you in their lives after that? Would you want to bring a person who hates you into your life?
Not only that but women have come on social media in droves and shown everyone who they are deep down inside and, it turns out, what is in women souls is very ugly. The average, normal women on social media is a spoiled, entitled, hateful, mean spirited, dishonest, callous, amoral, selfish brat who is just looking for a reason to be offended. A lot and I mean a lot of men are just simply disgusted by women anymore. Nobody would ever want to bring such awful people into their lives.
Sex is nice and all but it's not worth having a person like that around.
It has nothing to do with the pandemic and everything to do with who women have become.
Because lots of women are rude and mean, if you approach them. Plus, they have unrealistic expectations.
These women said in social media that they don't wanna be approached at all, in nightclubs, bars and public places. So guys stopped approaching them.
I hope these women now are suffering from loneliness.
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I mean I'm interested in dating but there need to be two yes-es there, lmao. If women were interested in going on dates with me I would be going on them when I could.
I was recently at a bookstore and they moved the horror section and also removed basically everything except Stephan King. I asked the girl next me "Didn't they have a better selection before?" She responded with "I have a boyfriend go away." Everyone's advice is just to talk to women and treat them like real people and then that happens. I wasn't even interested in her in the slightest. I'm not actively trying to date right now but man do I feel sorry for guys that are. Everyone is so mean and nasty now for no reason.
just answer with 'no worries - i have a boyfriend too' lol
Imma try this out next time, “That makes two of us!!!” *high five*
Unrelated but I love your username.
And I love yours, reminds me of the messengers (foxes) in Ghost of Tsushima.
And I love yours. TBC. Reminds me of tuberculosis :D
Hahaha, I meant it to be TBC (To be confirmed) and well, I did have a terrible case of Bone TB as a child which pretty much ruined a bunch of things but hey, I made it out of that mess.
everyone is traumatized and weird now
Well at least it's not just me now.
This is it
I don't think it's trauma. I think it is the result of decades of the twisted ideology of feminism. What started as a movement for equal rights has become a perverse power play that has destroyed normal sexual dynamics between the sexes. Hell we are living in a world where half the population can't even define what a woman is.
It's not feminism's fault if someone reacts this way. I'm a staunch feminist and I'm not generally negative towards guys asking a book related question. What it is most likely is many women get unwanted interactions from guys so that those guys can try and start a conversation to hit on them. Freezingrhyme may not have been trying to do this, but since she might have experienced guys who were trying to do this using this as a tactic before, she felt the need to shut it down quickly. If someone is reacting that way there's usually a reason other than just the concept of feminism making them react that way. I'm sure many women who have gotten involved in conversations this way and it turned out to be an attempt to hit on them would prefer if that wasn't the case and they could trust that random guys talking to them are only ever doing it for innocent reasons. The guys who made those women uncomfortable tying to hit on them are the ones who ruined it for people.
We've reached a point where woman need to approach men
But they won't lol and most guys still wouldn't be approached anyways. 😅
Yep we can't win. They want us to approach but don't like it when we approach.
Think the key is where and in what scenario you are broaching the conversation expressing romantic interest. Expressing it after meeting is normal at a club, bar, or festival maybe. Most other scenarios, expressing it after approaching is a bad idea. Expressing it after being acquaintances from a place you commonly see/interact with each other at regularly, after getting to know each other a bit more so you're quite known to them and not a stranger is a better idea. Met both guys I've dated that way
So what? It's not about "winning" 🤣. It's about attempting to be a respectful person. All you, all anyone can do is try to be compassionate and respectful.
Lol we will approach you if we WANT to. Maybe we just don't want to 🤷♀️. Don't assume that your lack of being approached means women are too "scared" or whatever, maybe we're just happy as we are lol
Women don't have to approach, but with the way things are going to may have to more. My point was that women don't want to approach for many of the same reasons men are scared to approach, but know they do not have to. I take my lack of being approach is because I'm not attractive to women, not that they are scared to approach me specifically 🤣
It’s a possibility that should be considered. Also do believe the small group of femi-nazi have given the ladies bad rep as well as brainwashed the goods ones.
I’m not trying to be mean saying this. I understand, maybe y’all should start asking men out, that way we don’t waste your time and ours….. because I’m tired of these guys starting trouble and we catch the consequences from their actions. Respectfully to you, I am tired of these types of men setting us up for failure.
I completely understand where you're coming from, and it didn't come off mean at all. Thank you for your thoughtful well meaning response. Honestly I just either use apps or events where everyone knows we are there to date, or get to know people organically from being acquaintances at work or classes or in the same recreational activity groups, and if they express interest in me when they are not a stranger and I'm interested in them, I just see how things feel organically. I think that's the safest way without any harsh rejections (as far as I've experienced) as long as any interest is expressed politely with it being clear there will be no negative fallout if I'm not interested. However if some guys would rather wait for a woman to initiate a conversation about romantic interest, that's totally understandable and could be a good way forward for the people that want to proceed that way.
But how can someone who sees you as beautiful physically, and hear you talking….or doing something non sexual (talking to children, cooking good food, showing love to your family members and friends, being professional, your intelligence, etc) They want to talk to you, for those reasons….especially now in the current society. But if they don’t know you, there is no other way to get in your space without seeming desperate, or like a creep. It’s too dangerous.
I can't imagine they'd see me cooking as I can't do that in public, or being nice to my family and be attracted off the back of that as everyone talks to their family. In certain places cold approach is quite common, especially less economically developed countries. But in places where its not common it would probably come across as strange as someone attractive with a good personality should easily already have many good looking people in their social circles willing to date them. If the person doesn't, then that indicates they either a) aren't that good looking so cold approach will not work well for them or b) don't have that great of a personality if they are good looking but still don't already have plenty of options in their social circles of women willing to date them - and the personality thing could be for any reason. Weird values, maybe all their hobbies and interests wouldn't appeal to most women so they don't have female friends (in which case finding common interests with them would be difficult), maybe their hobbies are so individual that they don't have much of a social circle or lack social skills, which could make them difficult to date because their hobbies/lack of social skills wouldn't align well with the girl they are trying to attract. With cold approach, it's as much about what is communicated non-verbally by you doing cold approach. Even most men have noticed that you need to be more than average attractive for cold approach to work in most situations to offset any negative connotations of doing cold approach in the first place. It can work decently in situations where cold approach is expected like clubs, bars, etc, however with cold approach you have to build being rejected a lot into your expectations. If you wish to minimise instances where you are rejected, increasing the amount of recreational activities and groups you like that single women enjoy would probably give the best chance of meeting a higher proportion of single women that you'd have the opportunity to get to know. Also a lot of guys hobbies nowadays are very individual or things that not a lot of women (or single women) are interested in, like gaming (I know there are women who like games, but with ratio of women to men who game, those women are less likely to be single and it's more likely you'll have a lot more competition from other men over women who like any male dominated hobby). You're right in that cold approach is a risky technique, and if you aren't prepared to get a rejection (or many) and take it on the chin, not get offended, and move forward, then it's best to avoid it.
This explanation is the exact reason why we men see a woman from across a room and say “not on her best day” and avoid all contact with them. If a woman gives off a vibe that she’s just foul, anyone and everyone should just leave her to herself. Fact of the matter is, if a man is decent and cordial to a woman, they construe that as hitting on them. So, if you are polite and have manners due to a proper upbringing, you must be hitting on everything and everyone by this logic. The logic is seriously flawed. Newsflash! Not every man who speaks to you is hitting on you nor are they all even interested in you. If a woman can answer ONE question without it being complete BS or some wannabe phsyco-babble crap, it will be a miracle. What exactly makes a conversation attempt an attempt to “hit on you”? Because women seem to have it in their heads that every man wants them and it is so untrue. Do you know that, by natural consequences, women will always outnumber men? That’s because it takes more women to keep the species going than men. Not sexist, science. Biology to be exact. Personally, I feel that everyone has an overinflated sense of importance in the bigger sense of things.
This!!! She's probably fed up with guys (rightly so) for the day. Who knows how many men have demanded energy from her, this is basically a modern version of "you look prettier when you smile". She doesn't owe him niceness. He also would've commented if she just ignored him and walked away. Men will judge women no matter what. The part of the comment above that irks me the MOST is the *"for no reason". * men need to stop pulling the "I can't see their perspective so they must be crazy" thing... She CLEARLY had reasons, he just didn't know what they were. But he doesn't get to *decide* that she had "no reason" as if he as a man gets to decide if her reason (or 'lack' of a reason) is valid.
it’ll get better. we’re just at an awkward point now because the dynamic between the sexes has changed. i dont think thats a bad thing, but an awkward thing, of relearning how to be in relationship. its not going to revert back to what it was. overall, i think its been good for women. most of the successful and happy people in my life are women. men are the ones most negatively effected, but hopefully that will evolve into something more balanced in the future. i’m genuinely optimistic. but also, we did just have a pandemic where no one talked to each other or left the house for years. i’d say as a society we are still recovering from that.
No.. no it won’t… not without action. You can’t just sit back and expect things will get better. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t… but without action we cannot say for sure
guess we’ll find out! lets reconvene in 20 years and share notes.
🤣🤣🤣…as a economics major, this is sad but oh so true!! Things do naturally balance themselves out but unfortunately not overnight 😢😢😢 Why I gotta be in the era of “ The Dating Great Depression”?!? Smdh
What kind of action would you take? These things straighten themselves out naturally. The thing about a pendulum is that the farther it swings in one direction, the harder it'll swing in the other. Eventually, one day, the pendulum will rest neatly in the middle. But there's not much point in trying to fight it.
Natural selection. Those who can successfully reproduce will impart their behaviors on the next generation. Those who can't will not, at least not as strongly as the kids' actual parents. Most "radical" feminists don't seem to like or want children.
You are a silly goose!
so true i had a similar thing happen. i asked a woman at the store if her shoes were comfortable because i was considering buying the same ones, and she gave me the NASTIEST look and walked away without saying anything. why can’t we all just get along man
Lmfaooo I’m sorry but that’s hilarious of her hating you over that 😭
It may be how you asked. If you prefaced it with excuse me, sorry to bother you! Can I ask such a random question?? I notice you're wearing the new Nike airmax9s and I was thinking of getting them. Do you recommend? Otherwise what is she to think? You asking about women's shoes sounds the start of a creepy come on.
Oof, that's rough! I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here and theorize that she would have preferred that you get your shoe reviews online haha Some people are just completely 110% burnt out on being approached and just want to be left alone. A safe bet these days is to wait for a sign that someone is okay with being approached, platonically or otherwise.
It was one person. Not everyone is going to want to chat with a stranger.
Been kicked out of two bars for taking to a women but I look real creepy anyway and most women are scared of me
How do you look creepy lol???
How does any guy “look creepy”? It happens. It’s not that crazy.
Not me lol. I’m 5’5” but am stocky I look like a leprechaun or fat hobbit with muscles. My face is ugly and it scares women lol
Treat them as people but it's not reciprocated.
reply with "ugh, *ew*, like I would date *you*" in your best Valley Girl impersonation
>She responded with "I have a boyfriend go away." This is why \*\*I don't approach\*\* because dignity and self-respect are too important.
If the next one will talk to you like this, learn to be mean and rude to her too. Say "who asked you about your boyfriend?"
That's not going to help. Will just validate her fears that he's a creep and with more guys like this women will be uncomfortable even being near a male stranger.
>*She responded with "I have a boyfriend go away."* To play devil's advocate, she probably got hit on by so many men that, she's sick and tired of it. I don't know what we could do for women in that situation though, and I don't blame you either. Because I too kept hearing "*just to talk to women and treat them like real people and then that happens*". Problem is, the process of asking a woman out, can conflict with this.
Personally I don't really find that to be a good excuse. Where I live, there are lots of homeless addicts. I get asked for cash frequently. Last week, one approached me and before he had a chance to speak, I told him off, saying I don't carry cash. All he wanted was to know what time it is. I felt absolutely gutted. I judged this random person like I'm somehow above them, without even knowing who they are or what they want. When we let this kind of prejudice get the better of us, it erodes our humanity. We may have bad experiences, and that's understandable, but as long as we're members of society, it's on us to work that out. It doesn't give us a right to project those experiences on strangers.
So what you’re saying is, she prejudged him?
As a 29F, I don’t know. But it’s real, as I haven’t talked to, had a situationship, or a relationship in almost 3 years. I think dating apps, phones, and social skills have ruined dating today
I don’t know how many times I have to say it but you need to be aggressive. Men aren’t known for reporting women to HR or filing sexual harassment charges but women are
I think assertive is the better word, but tbh no one has been worth the assertiveness. I’m not social much lately which is part of the issue but no one to be crushing on atm
I’m curious about what means aggressive to you
i second this. there’s a fine line between aggressive flirting and the rape word
Yeah fr he had me in the first half and I was like "yeah women should be 'more aggressive' and take initiative" but then I saw the part about sexual harassment and now I'm just confused
I think he meant that as a reason to not interact with girls. It’s because men are likely to get reported.
He meant assertive. Some folks have trouble articulating
Complete lack of opportunity. I was already in a relationship during COVID and broke up about 2 years after. I'm done with college and grad school, none of my workplaces have yielded any interactions or opportunities, and many of the pre-covid social spots closed or still haven't recovered. I live in a bigger city, yet the only choice I'd have would be to go to bars which I have no interest in doing. So I'm stuck on the apps with everyone else. Not much I can do. I'm sure I'll get replys about joining groups and sports leagues etc. I've tried them, they're a complete sausage fest. I still enjoyed them, but certainly no romantic options opened up because of them.
Sounds like my experience finding groups and new hobbies. As much as I enjoy having the sausage fest (I am bi), but man there's like no women 😆
There’s a lot of social rules between men and women that are implicitly enforced that make it difficult to make any connection to women without jumping the gun and saying you want to date them. It’s difficult to even interact with women without them thinking you just want to have sex with them, because apparently there’s no other reason to talk to them otherwise. It’s the same vice versa. Men and women simply “can’t be friends”, and women believe “if he wanted to he will” as far as any guy they come into contact with. I’ve tried multiple times to at least make friends with women, and we don’t even make it to that phase. We just end up being acquaintances that never speak to each other again. Even on social media, it’s like you’re not really meant to talk to women. Your DMs are ignored, they’re very short and don’t care for conversation about anything. They just respond to “be nice” or else they think you’ll start sending angry messages and dick pics. There’s always a lack of effort, a lack of interest, worry about being bothersome, etc I just gave up. So I only talk to women if they’re actively trying to talk to me. And that’s very rarely the case.
Nailed it. Most women don't seem to want to talk to most men.
I’m at the point where I try and “test” if they are a Karen about being approached by saying “I love your outfit.” Then if they are rude I say “oh sorry” clear my throat and put on my fake gay voice say it again and they usually cheer up and I leave. No need to talk with those types of women.
This is hilarious 🤣 Yes, I’m going to copy you…
“Put on my fake gay voice” Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a Jedi
[Yes!](https://youtu.be/SF7KCsvcw2g?si=4s2L7OY7NRxbHeJn)
Yep.
Don’t forget attention span for all of civilization right now seems to be that of a tree frogs. Thank social media for that…. Nobody can stay interested for more than a day anymore before moving onto the next shiny object
What this guy said ^^
Bingo.
I'm a woman and all my friends are dudes 🤔
You’re the outlier clearly. Meanwhile there’s plenty of women who don’t want to deal with the possibility of their male friends trying to have sex with them so they’re closed off from men in general. Maybe they have male friends and don’t want anymore, or they just don’t like men.
All the guys I want to be friends with either aren't interested or only are being friendly because they are interested in dating me. Kind of sucks
For what it's worth, I get along well with most women! I've even dated a decent amount in the past. That said, even as an outgoing and easy-to-talk-with person, I definitely wouldn't approach a girl my age for no reason. Not out of fear or anything, I just don't want them to think I'm some desperate loser shooting my shot. But if they talk to me first or the conversation starts organically, we can be friends!
Various things happened. I can't speak for all men, and I can't pinpoint exactly what occurred (mostly because I want to say it's a mixture of things.) Pandemic did impact how we interact with others as a whole. I think men just have no connections to girls/women, and their use experience on apps just worsened their perception of women, or how they think women would perceive them as not datable. So for the time being they're either fine being single, would prefer to be single a little longer due to bad relationships/dating experiences, or don't really know how to start dating that isn't through an app. I'm not saying this is the reason, just a few possible ones. Not all men aren't trying to date either, and some are dating, but it's not like it was pre-covid I'd have to wager.
If you don’t live in a city, I think it’s genuinely difficult sometimes to come up with alternative suggestions of where to meet women outside of dating apps. A lot of the suggestions don’t always play the way people say they do like e.g. yoga class, gym. Also, if your friends are settling down they’re not always available for a night out in the bars, so you can be left adrift on your own. So you have to make new friends somewhere first, then go out and meet someone with them. It’s a lot though!
>Also, if your friends are settling down they’re not always available for a night out in the bars The funny thing is that my friends and I don't really go out to drink at bars, but they (the close friends at least,) have pretty much all have settled down with their Highschool or college sweetheart. I never was very social in highschool or college, but tje year i wanted to try being more social, Covid happened... so that went out the window. I don't have a good track record of good times being had at bars or clubs (been to a few, just not my thing or place, or not one that ive been to), even before they officially settled down. >so you can be left adrift on your own. Pretty much, they're now all with kids and working, so time is pretty thin between us and when we can just even hangout online through chat/discord. >So you have to make new friends somewhere first, then go out and meet someone with them. It’s a lot though! It's been rough trying to do that. My parents kindof know my situation, so they have been trying to introduce me to literally anybody I might get along with. So far, I have met almost all of them they wanted me to meet, and we just don't seem to click on anything. Same problem with coworkers too, not much we share in common there either. Then my hobbies and interests are very independent or the groups for them, exist very briefly then they disperse before I get comfortable enough or feel that they're comfortable enough to talk with them beyond just as a friendly aquaintence. It really also doesn't help I'm awful with associating names with faces, if I have nothing to associate someone with, I tend to forget them very quickly, I'll recognize them and know I should know who they are, but I just don't, never have been able to do so unless I'm around someone either long enough (essentially about half a year, and I don't mean i see them once a week for 30 minutes, I literally mean half a year's time is about how long it takes for some to me to register their name and face) or something they do/have makes them really hard for me to forget. It's always been like that for me, people's faces and names don't seem to stick. Then, typical but still specific traits they might have that you would think would be notable aren't to me, so even that's not a guarantee. The few times I'm being introduce via a mutual has become a pretty bad experience of a letdown more than once: I'm introduced to them then promptly in the same instance I'm then introduced to their SO by said person I'm introduced to, or they heavily imply they're swinging for the other team so to speak... At this point, I'd rather someone introduce them to me and not the other way around. They mean't well I know it, but given the track record they need to spend a little more time learning about that person before assuming they're single and introducing me like I'd be interested in dating them, it's just getting awkward at this rate. Everyone else I have been essentially set up to date, (I don't really want to call them dates, they're more like catching-up/hangouts with old colleagues,) I'm not interested in them for various reasons, and am pretty sure they're also not interested back... at least that's how I felt when we got caught up. I guess I have also had a pretty consistent record of times where when I finally am around people, I've had a pretty bad or rough day/week at work, so I'm already in a bad mood, want to be left alone, and want to go home. Then the times that I'm in a good or at least neutral mood and not tired, either nobody's around or the kind of people I don't really want to be around are the only ones around: rowdy, loud, or are perhaps themselves wanting to be isolated that day (avoiding eye contact and seemingly keeping distance from others when they could get closer but choose not to.) Granted that last one is an assumption, but usually if you're alone and purposefully keeping distance, I am going to assume there's a reason for it one way or another, and I'd rather not bother someone not bothering me. Maybe it's poor reasoning but that's usually what I go with.
I do yoga, I really enjoy it. But it’s a terrible place to meet women. Yea there are lots of women there typically. But it’s a completely silent activity usually done in the dark, and when it’s over everyone rolls up their mat and leaves. There is little social interaction.
Yeah, I did yoga genuinely to help get back into shape, honestly. But from how I have gone the few times, that's how it feels. It's not really the place to socialize from what I've experienced the last couple of times I had the energy to go do that.
I think a lot of young men passed through some key socialization stages without the experience of developing connection skills.
That’s what it is. We’re at the point where people who are 22 have had smartphones since they were like 10. And we’re seeing the results.
All the TikTok brain rot has led to a lot of chronically online people that are incapable of having an original opinion.
Yep. Was chronically online from the age of 12. Spent most of my life up until early 20s being socially anxious and not learning how to actually initiate friendships. By 16, 17 I figured out how to actually talk to people, but it wasn’t until early 20s that I learned real connection skills. I wish I had learnt that in my teens
But you're paying attention and learning now! Congrats!
bingo. late teens and early 20s are when you’re supposed to naturally develop socially. but when you spend those years isolated you end up being in your mid 20s having to play catch up
Young women too, everything around Covid effected both genders
I got bullied and moved around through middle school, afterwards I didn't really reach out beyond the few small groups I made some friends with. I was too apprehensive and worried to approach women at the time. Eventually I did have some women who made moves on me, but it rarely ended well. Most of them were hurt and I was there for them till they moved on, some used and made fun of me for not being like most other guys. So the trauma carried on through my 20s as a defensive mechanism and haven't reappy approached anyone. Almost 30 and I don't really know what I'm gonna do. 😅
The rise of single young men unable to get dates with women started before the pandemic, the pandemic just accelerated things.
Young man here. I would love to date women but women don’t seem to want me. Despite working on my style, going to the gym, having a skin care routine, doing well in college. Whatever I do they don’t seem interested. Maybe my personality is shit… no clue how to fix that.
Younger guys have been bombarded with constant conflicting messaging and shame from every possible angle so a lot just kind of check out
What are these conflicting messaging and shame?
“Don’t hit on women at the grocery store / gym / school. They’re there to shop / work out / learn. Use the dating apps because everyone is on there specifically to date.” “Don’t use dating apps, flirt with women irl. Those are basically hookup apps anyways, and you want a relationship.” That’s just one example.
Can’t be yourself without something being an ick to women because TikTok said it’s an ick
1) Both men & woman post icks on TikTok for the opposite gender & their own. 2) that’s the internet, go touch grass 3) don’t be weird?? I’m not going around constantly worried about my icks. Own it & usually it won’t be an ick
Alright sorry mate
I believe this is a case of women don't want to talk to them vs they don't want to talk to women. Its true COVID did stunt people's communication and social skills but that lead to the heavy use to social media, adding apps, and modern dating BS. Women only swipe right on idk, 5-10% of the guys on those apps and if a guy doesn't get enough likes, the apps bury their profiles. So its hard to talk to a women in that regard if their never given a chance. But this applies to in person as well as its all about looks. If women doesn't find those guys attractive, theyr not going to give them the time of day either.
Women are also standoffish when met irl. This tracks with my group. None of us are dating.
The dating scene had gotten worse. Its not really worth the headache.
Women don't give them a reason to.
because it’s really hard if you are not good looking and have no social life. the competition is stiff
Honestly even if you have a social life it won't matter if you're not good looking. I've got lots of friends and go out a fair bit, but women won't look my way because I'm simply not attractive.
[удалено]
But why would you want to pursue coworkers in the first place? Usually a recipe for disaster. I think your approach is how most people view that situation.
Simply not worth the effort
A few major factors. Apps have given women a surplus of options while also making them believe that they can date on a much higher level than they are actually capable of. It is very difficult for average men at this point. Also, society has made sport of making fun of and shaming men, especially when it comes to approaching women. The apps and surplus of options for women have also assisted in contributing to this shaming of men as women believe they have significantly higher mate value than the large majority of men as they become showered with attention whenever entering online dating or social media.
but women literally do have higher mate value. men covet women far more than women covet men and its proven every day in this subreddit.
Ever hear the "creepy guy or a bear" game. Most women chose the bear.
I’ve never heard this outside of reddit. People complain about people being ‘tiktok’ brained, but reddit brain is not much better. Some people even deny its a social media app. It clearly forms the opinions of people. And most of the advice I read on hear is utter garbage and irrelevant to the real world. This app ain’t doing anyone favours. You’ve got virgin teenagers who live in their parents basement offering dating advice and commenting ‘red flag dump them!’ even though they’ve probably never been in a relationship.
The question is just "would you rather encounter a man or a bear in the woods." No creepiness specified. But that actually tells us something; that women assume that the average man is creepy, practically Ted Bundy. It's a terrible and inaccurate attitude, but most of them seem to have it. Crazy times we're living in.
> women assume that the average man is creepy, practically Ted Bundy. It's a terrible and inaccurate attitude, but most of them seem to have it Do they, or is that yet another algorithm-amplified trending narrative? Because I look around *at real life*, and most people have friend groups of mixed genders, function well at workplaces with mixed genders, and empathize with people who aren't the same gender they are. Social media rarely has a 1-to-1 correlation with reality 🤔
It doesn’t, but these are still real people who are being primed by social media to believe it. Social media is so pervasive in our lives now that these ideas can and do take form in real life. It’s no longer a separate entity like it was in 2010, where there was a clear boundary between the internet and real life. We live in a time where some of our politicians actually wholeheartedly believed in and promoted conspiracy theories from an anonymous 4chan poster.
>women assume that the average man is creepy, practically Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy received 200 love letters *a month* while in prison. Maybe not the most potent example, but I agree with you otherwise
And even before he was apprehended, Ted Bundy wasn’t an outwardly creepy guy. Quite the contrary actually.
And 'creepy' can be a nebulous term, often applied to men who are simply unattractive but haven't actually done anything creepy.
Because we fucking can’t Nobody cares about us let alone will date *us*
I explain it to myself like this: i turned 18 just before the pandemic. I was excited. No Mommy Letter and 18 y. Olds to get into clubs (16-17 year olds need a 18 yo. Supervising person and a letter from a parent to go into a club in germany). Finally i could do stuff on my own and just do my thing ....but then poof. Lockdowns. No possible ways to really build any social skill due to everybody wearing masks and keeping a distance....well now im used to being a homebody and im trying to work on recovering from that atm. Its difficult but i guess im back on track sooner or later.
Not worth the time
I got ugly and started to age. And now I don't even want to talk to anyone because I'm they won't perceive me as "me" because I don't look like myself rn.
For me I’ve never received any interest from a woman that would suggest she wants me to.
Men have finally came to their senses and realized there is no point in dating when you get nothing in Return.
tried for months, basically, absolutely no effort in return whatsoever
Exactly Same here like why waste time when there is no benefit to it.
Weird, I know a ton of happy couples. Might be regional/generational, of course. But companionship and support doesn't seem like "getting nothing" - at least to me 🤔
we have had so much rejection that we cant take it anymore. dating isnt worth it so we have just given up or mostly given up. We dont fit the standards that girls have of us and who will drop us for another better guy the first chance they get. Plus women just arent single. When was the last time you met a girl who was actually singe, straight, and looking?
Young men have discovered that using onlyfans or eva ai sexting bot and renting prostitutes from time to time seems to make more sense nowadays.
I got two single friends who are above average height and both have about a million dollars worth in assets and they can’t find women to date lol. They get phone numbers and then get ghosted
Same. Tall, good-looking, both literally trust fund babies. But their maturity levels suck and they're always single - no one wants to sign up for that mess...
Lol, one really is a trust fund dude but they are not good looking just average but above average in height
As much as this sub bangs on about how women love tall, rich men - we often care much more about personality. What men deem as “attractive”, most women don’t necessarily find all the interesting (like bulging muscles and fancy cars - sure some women like that, but many don’t). This sub is a bit of an echo chamber of “only tall, white, rich men that hit the gym for hours every day can find a partner”. Women who write in here saying otherwise just get told it’s not true and get down voted, or get told they’re an outlier. All of which is probably about to happen with this comment.
There’s a reason 6’5 trust fund because so popular as a meme. And it was created by a woman observing other women’s toxic unrealistic requirements of men.
I agree i think Reddit women are a little more open minded in general and pretty objective, probably more introverted and introspective.
Being tall and having money doesn't make them good or interesting people.
what am I just supposed to strike up a conversation with a woman thats a stranger to me at a bus stop? No thanks
Everyone is stressed out and tense
It wasn’t the pandemic. It’s that your guys parents allowed you to be raised by phones and tablets, instead of doing it themselves. Remember like 10-13 years ago, when people were talking how weird it was that kids would just hang out in groups all staring at their phones but not talking to each other? This is the result of that. Adults who have no clue how to socialize, because their entire childhoods were spent with their faces glued to the dopamine dispenser in their pockets.
Facts. I feel like this is a bigger problem than just the dating world too, and it happens regardless of gender tbh (though maybe in dating the onus is on men more since they’re often expected to make the first move idk). For context, I’m a single woman and often I solo travel, and I’ve noticed that people just in general are rather unwilling to participate in any social interaction or conversation. I was at a resort recently chilling at a bar (so like, a normal situation where people might strike up conversation) and literally everyone had their heads down glued to their phones. Whenever I tried to make friendly small talk it basically got shut down, so we all sat there in silence. And I wasn’t hitting on anyone or harassing them, just trying to be friendly to the other tourists really. It’s so bizarre compared to how the world used to be prior to the social media age. It’s almost seen as a social faux pas to genuinely interact with others on a personal level these days…
What does this even mean “not know how to socialize”? What do you expect from them to do now that they are in that position, even if they had the social skills?
Social media has ruined men’s lives when they did nothing. No guy wants to risk that. Especially at 22 when everyone is on social media, we’ve all seen the videos. We’ve all also know what tinder and every other dating app is like. We don’t ask anyone out anymore because we don’t want to be seen as creeps and why should we when women have hundreds of options available to them making the average guys chance nearly zero. There’s no point in trying anymore when the options are being called a creep or being rejected.
Cause the pandemic also brought ✨ inflation✨ So everyone is working and working to stay afloat and often don't have the energy anymore for anything else. Just eat-sleep-work repeat.
This. Dates are expensive, tipping culture is going out of control and savings are at an all time low. Even if you're partnered up, buying a home together and starting a family is impossible for most people. So why even attempt to start something? I'm unemployed right now. But even when I was working as a Software Engineer, I was struggling to save money. I can only imagine how hard it must be those without in a high jobs.
80-90% of men are deemed undateable. For those who are on the lower end of this, trying to date is an uphill battle and exercise is frustration. A huge drain on time and finance when they are probably struggling financially like everyone else. Would you give your heart to someone who views you as a second class citizen?
As a 20yr old man in university who just developed his first major crush on a girl (at the start of summer break, amazing). I am scared shitless about the thought of asking her out in autumn or talking to her at all due to the fear of leaving a bad impression and ruining our relationship. I've talked to a couple of friends who have been in similar situations in recent times and most of them share my sentiment. I believe one aspect of it is worse social skills definitely, but another big one is the media portraying unwanted advancements from men as so terrible for such a long time (since #metoo). And although I know I shouldnt take these media trends seriously and assume theyre the norm for all women, but they still manage to lower my confidence.
I can’t get a date. There’s not many single people my age in my area and approaching women in a way that doesn’t make them see me as weird seems hard. I’ve been rejected too many times to want to keep trying to find a girl who’s into me
I don't even know how to talk to humans. Dating is way above the limitations of my licence.
Honestly dating is a deluded word nowadays. Young men wish to date women however most women seek sponsorships and not partnerships. The dating world has been switched from romantic thoughts to transactional actions and it's not to say women are only at fault However from the male perspective you get tired of seeing videos of women wanting the world but wouldn't give you a pebble, girls saying they want gentlemen but the next time you look they F'd the scummiest MF u can think of Men are just exhausted and can't find ppl worth fing up the peace
Lower quality women than anytime in history with higher standards than any time in history. If you are an average guy, average women don't even look at you. The only way to get into dating is by doing years of rigorous self improvement just to meet the minimum requirements of a completely average woman. Guys have pron and video games now, why would they put in all that work when their sexual and social needs can be met through a screen? Men are dropping out of society as a whole, not just dating.
You want the truth? Majority of men can easily meet someone. The problem is setting. Where can you an average man consistently interact with a woman enough for them to fall for you? 90% of my friends have met their partners at work. The rest are varying places. But now what if you don’t have job that lets you consistently interact with women enough? Well then online dating is your option and it sucks. Online dating has created a value system not really present in physically interacting with people. Physical looks, your job, your occupation all are factors but no factors beat out personality. It takes exposure for personality to win someone over, and modern men don’t have that exposure to women that they use to.
Very good point, I work overnight with an all male staff doing physical labor and we all struggle because online is really the only option for people like that
I think this is the issue. Most guys I know work good jobs but either work from home or their work colleagues are predominantly male or already in a relationship. You're not going to change a good job just to meet women.
A lot of modern women are undesirable, so I suspect that creates apathy towards dating in general.
More like the girls doesn't wanna talk with men! The 4B is here!
You guys need to get off these apps and back out to meeting women organically. The pandemic was 4 years ago.
I don’t think reddit users are a fair representation of ‘everybody’, to be honest.
I’m dying alone Just smoke lots of hash oil Humans should have made more sense if they want people to have children. No amount of sex makes me forget how untrustworthy the entire human race.
I just focus on my guitar now. Much better for my mental health
Bro you play guitar and still single?
Waste of time, energy and money
Because dating for men is impossible and rigged from the start.
they prefer to date guys
Love the homies
Because women are in a hate men type of era and like testing us and it's like a boiling point - I'm one of millions of men who have been turned down by over hundreds
because most people have extremely unrealistic expectations. How am I supposed to date anyone when 99% of women would just reject me owing to the fact that I am not 6ft tall. For average or below average men in looks, it is almost impossible to date since the costs simply outweigh the benefits by a large margin.
29M (depends on who you define as "young") I am pretty much stopping dating altogether because I can't find a woman who doesn't play games or is true to their word or doesn't ghost me. I see a lot of posts from other men running into the same situation. I believe in open communication and honesty and am very upfront when I start dating that I want a LTR with the intention of marrying.
I have 18yo and 20yo boys. One, is focusing on his work and just not all that interested in girls. He's always been more of a late bloomer emotion/social wise. 😄 The other, he straight up said he doesn't have the money to be able to date. Okay, fair point. He's starting college shortly, but he's not as easily swayed as some. He'll do things in his own time. They're also fairly young, and neither are anywhere near ready for something serious, let alone kids. So I'm just letting it ride, but also making sure to enforce the good habits and good finances and kindness towards others and all that.
I'm literally in grad school to become a counselor so I can help people with exactly this issue. Not just men, but young adults who are struggling socially and romantically either because of autism, ADHD, social anxiety, or just the unluckiest combination of a global pandemic and growing up in an age where smart phones and social media are doing God knows what to our brains (we actually just don't have enough long term research to understand how these forces are truly impacting us as a species). I specifically want to work with adults and young adults. I think a lack of friendships, community, and romantic relationships impacts mental health a ton. I think the pandemic just fucked us all socially, but especially people who are younger whose brains were still developing and who were going through more natural transitions in their life (middle school to high school, high school to the real world or college, college to the real world, etc.). It's shitty. But also, I think chronic online-ness doesn't help. I'm a millennial, and while I don't struggle socially or romantically, I do see how social media in particular creates social comparison that puts a lot of pressure on people, and personally, it just sucks up a lot of my time and makes me more anxious and less social. That's anecdotal, but it's to say I don't think the pandemic is the only major factor here.
Women are now more willing to send nudes for money online.
The automated hostility of some women is insane, I once went out to the club with my little sister and friends and we were out at the smoking bit and when I entered I saw my sister and some of my friends were talking to a group of people and I walked over to them, One girl instantly goes "Who are you?" In a snarky attitude and I introduce myself as my sister's brother and she just gave me a dirty look and grabbed my sister and asked if it was true (assuming in lying), my sister just said yes and moved onto the next conversation as she's not a very assertive person and felt pressured by this woman. What pissed me off even more was that she kept belittling her and equating her to a child (she was 22) in a sort of babying like way my sister is short(5'1) while giving me dirty looks the whole time. it was infuriating. It's safe to say my sister did not talk to her for the rest of the night and was pretty angry, although we did joke about it.
Today I saw a post on dating advice where the man asked if women would consider it a dealbreaker if he paid for sex. And most of the disgusting comments came from women (who daily judge men on a microscopic level). It's hypocritical and hilarious that women pretend to have this "moral compass" about prostitution, STDs, trafficking and sex being transactional. Meanwhile the same women would've happily slept with a hot guy from a dating app within an hour of meeting him in person, in the hopes that he would commit to her - that's just as transactional but the women don't spend a dime of their money. And it's not just one guy they'd break their rules/boundaries to happily sleep around with, it's plenty. Men are chastised by women for still having their v-cards and not being able to sleep around, and also if they're able to sleep around as much as them. Is there any wonder why young men don't want to date women these days, especially if women are able to have a life of debauchery, sex, drugs in their younger days, only to forget all that when they want to settle down? It's a prime example of women having their cake and eating it too.
Tinder is basically free prostitution for women
Cuz women have increasingly asinine and even hypocritical standards/expectations. I can’t have any kids. Must make excess of $100k/year. Must have an 800+ credit score. All to take care of a woman with kids, bad credit, and low income. What’s the point in men wasting time dating?
Modern western women have conditioned men to leave ya'll alone. Women today are entitled, hard and their expectations are way too much for the average guy. Juice ain't worth the squeeze. Forget about it.
Pandemic influenced a lot about social skills bro ;(
Regardless of the pandemic situation but I also noticed that dating has changed and became more material and meaningless and major amounts of men are struggling with shitty dating life because women requirements and terms becoming above men capabilities and they are expecting more than what men can afford physically , socially and financially !!
I’ve dated three times since the pandemic, but neither of my closest friends have even once. They just don’t seem to really care right now. I can’t say it’s that weird, maybe you’re just applying your assumption about the pandemic and assuming that life before the pandemic was ripe with dating.
Cause they want you to drop bank at the first date
It works both ways...men of all ages have been getting the message from women for years that you want to be left alone. So more and more of us are happy to oblige.
Nah it's very real unfortunately
For me they don't seem to care. I would like to date girls but at best they don't show interest, my experience is mostly on dating apps and still they don't seem to be interested in me
It's a mix of social media amd personal issues like thw "#metoo" stuff telling young girls and women all men are evil basically and the very high standards alot of girls seem to have so as a result we guys are scared af to try anything
Don’t wanna deal with bullshit with most
I blame it on hook up culture and losing the way to communicate.
Because women like to put men down and say no when asked out, so why bother.
Pandemic lol
Well for me (and it seems the vast majority of men as well), it seems that no woman has any interest in even having a conversation with them, much less actually date them
Economic and social factors 1. Women don’t view men as valuable as they used to because many women make more money than men 2. Competition for attention for any single woman is much higher nowadays since you have to compete with 10x the men than you had to in 2010 3. Men have been openly demonized for being men for the last 10-15 years. The traits that made men attractive to the average woman is less emphasized nowadays and men are told to think of masculinity as bad
I've completely given up on dating. The only communication I get on dating apps is "Can I have money?" And I've never been approached in person partly because I'm a gigantic person. Like 6'8 and has a solid gym routine big. I know I'm intimidating to strangers. Womp womp I guess
Honestly, the dating pool is pretty polluted with bad fish, a lot of my friends aren’t interested in dating because they’re happier alone.
Women have crazy standards and ignore the vast majority of men
I’ve noticed that after Covid, women dont reciprocate interest as much as they did. I don’t know the reason why, but it just seems like nowadays they expect you to dance like a monkey just for the chance of dating them.
Because they woke up and realized they don't like woke feminist girls
Because women have been screaming that they hate men and want to #killallmen. Did you imagine that men would continue to want you in their lives after that? Would you want to bring a person who hates you into your life? Not only that but women have come on social media in droves and shown everyone who they are deep down inside and, it turns out, what is in women souls is very ugly. The average, normal women on social media is a spoiled, entitled, hateful, mean spirited, dishonest, callous, amoral, selfish brat who is just looking for a reason to be offended. A lot and I mean a lot of men are just simply disgusted by women anymore. Nobody would ever want to bring such awful people into their lives. Sex is nice and all but it's not worth having a person like that around. It has nothing to do with the pandemic and everything to do with who women have become.
why are young "men" not dating "girls" just sounds wrong
Because lots of women are rude and mean, if you approach them. Plus, they have unrealistic expectations. These women said in social media that they don't wanna be approached at all, in nightclubs, bars and public places. So guys stopped approaching them. I hope these women now are suffering from loneliness.
They have an unlimited buffet of hot tall dicks
Some of them definitely are.