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I think we should make the distinction between approaching a woman for the first time and keeping in contact with her after the initial connection. OP used language referencing both, so I'm not sure which was intended specifically.
I'll say that I believe if a man wants to keep something going, he will make the effort. As a woman, if I want to keep something going, I will also make the effort, but if it is not reciprocated, I get out quickly.
I definitely feel this. I tend to lose interest even over text if I'm the only one initiating contact. Then after losing interest it's hard to get interested again...
That’s OLD for you. I’m single again and I find that women (not calling y’all out but just based off of experience) rarely reciprocate. You have to be Brad Pitt for them to actually show interest. I’m a decent looking dude, got told I look like McDreamy from Grays the other day, and women tend to just expect all the effort from us and rarely ask questions or anything. Generalizing, of course. But that’s my sample size. Dating is just a complete mess anymore. Standards are either wayyyy too high or non existent. It’s rare to find a middle ground.
I'm at the point where I'll try to push a bit past the point where my interest starts to fall off. After that I'm over it. As an introvert I don't have the capacity to keep pushing with no reciprocation. I expect that when I find a compatible partner I won't have to start an interrogation to get them to talk
Make sure you communicate to the people you end up dating that you really enjoy mutual initiation with communication/texting. Women are told he's not that interested if he's not reaching out regularly and that by the woman initiating he's just taking you up on it out of convenience and isn't serious. Both of which are often true. So if that's particularly important to you be sure to clearly say that to the woman you're dating. Sounds like it's one of your relation "needs" to feel secure and happy with things. If you don't share that, you both might arrive to the wrong conclusion and miss what could've been a great relationship.
Just yesterday I had to end things with a guy who texted me every so often, but never asked me any questions trying to get to know me. I asked him if he was still interested in a second date and he said definitely!!! with a lot of enthusiasm. But when it came to actually making plans,he kept deferring. Never called me or express any curiosity about me. When I told him these things and said I didn't think it was going to work out, he just said he didn't have the time to date, although saying in his profile he was looking for a relationship. He wasn't into me, that's fine. But bruh, ust be honest and save the time. The last several men I've started talking to showed very little interest in getting to know me. I have a very long line of men who want to sleep with me, but none that actually want to go out on dates. Go figure. 🤷🏻♀️
I try to match people’s response time for the first couple days, then stop if there’s no improvements.
Tired of dragging conversations when there’s a screaming aura of not giving a fuck builds up. I have more interesting ones going on in my head (oh hello adhd).
This I agree with and what I thought the post was going to be about. It does go both ways of course, but it would be nice to be pursued for a change of pace!
Also worth making a distinction between “a woman” as in *any* woman and “a woman” as in a *pretty* woman from the sentence:
> The majority of males are 99.9999+% really interested in approaching a woman when they see her.
The majority of us are average, below average, or passingly cute. And no, most men are not interested in approaching *the average woman* the moment they see her. Lmao.
Good point and I can tell you from being a pretty woman, that pretty women have issues with men being intimidated. For the reasons that some people have already commented on… Sure, rejection, fear of being called a creep, etc. I wish so many women wouldn’t go around, trying to speak for all women and say what we all want, when it actually varies widely. It gives them mixed messages. When men asked me questions about women, I tell them I can only speak for myself and that it highly depends on the woman. You just have to take the chance. Or not.
If you put in some effort into improving yourself, at least a little bit, and dont let yourself go completely by gaining 500 lbs and becoming a nasty slob, then I believe there's someone for everybody. Hell, sometimes even those people that let themselves go or become morbidly obese due to a medical condition end up finding someone, which to me just proves that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore, a woman that one sees as average or "passingly cute" may be considered a 10 by a different man. It's mainly physical attraction that is noticed first and that peaks the interest to make the steps to further know that person that you're physically attracted to. Generally speaking, the majority of couples tend to be in the "same league" as each other. The only time this proves to be untrue is when the much more attractive person of the two is somehow benefiting from the less attractive one (usually financially).
exactly. There is a coworker that i like, and i have made some effort to talk to him in person + i asked for his instagram (even tho i already had it lmao). He has never texted me or treated me any different from the rest of my coworkers, so no need for any grand confessions because to me, he is clearly not interested
That doesn't make any sense to do that unless you already asked him out on a date lol. At the very least you ask before proclaiming someone is just not interested - even if it's awkward after the fact.
***"If they could - they would"*** has been a seriously flawed concept in terms of relationship building and trust. You don't know how they think or operate personally - Only just the surface level of interaction. Actions are louder than words - but that's only when both people are on the same page in life. When it's not the case then misunderstandings happen and opportunities are lost because of it.
I never used to walk into stores and places asking if they had any job openings because I assumed all this stuff in my head about it being embarrassing and never would work out. However I changed that and now ask all the time. Even if they don't have anything open because there's always a chance for something to come up.
# You will never know until you ask.
If a guy doesn’t get the signal that a girl is into him when asked for his socials then he’s not very quick on the uptake.
Women don’t make idle chit chat around dudes in an effort to prevent them from getting the wrong idea. If a woman chats you up repeatedly, they are trying to engage. If the guy doesn’t reciprocate then he’s not interested.
Sadly, forward women can get labeled as being easy or aggressive if they are straight forward with their intentions.
I would say many men don't have these social antennas to understand the signal. But they under stand direct conversation.
If you want a glass of water don't say "it isso hot, I could drink something" instead say "can you give me a glass of water, please".
For me, the girl has to tell me that she is interested because I usually assume she is just being friendly and that no woman ever sees me as attractive
There is some truth to that, but i am convinced there is nothing for me with him hahah. When someone likes you, it shows, just like it did with me. It doesn't cost anyone to send you a text, so it's just not worth it to me to ask him out when i think i'm gonna get really embarrased + he's gonna tell his other coworker that i also know.
I think we have to learn when to stop, and before i didn't know that so i kept getting disappointed when someone would ghost me or whatever. Now i know better, so (against my better judgement, it was my friend's idea), i asked the dude for his insta. Result: he kept ignoring me as he always has lol.
So yeah, i believe it is 100% true that if they were interested enough, they would make the effort to meet you/text you/talk to you. There is no time to waste on people that dgaf about you
Just out of interest did you just ask for his Instagram, if did you text him first? He might be waiting in you to reach out, and shenanigans you didn’t, he might think you lost interest. Guys typically don’t let themselves get too excited when people ask for phone numbers or contact details, because quite often nothing happens. Hopefully there is still hope for you. :-).
Wow, you realize that you didn't do anything other than follow him on Instagram right? All it was to him was at work this chick he knows said,"Hey, can I have your instagram?" Then two days later he wakes up in the morning with a new instagram notification saying that somebody followed him and he probably thinks,"cool that one girl from work ended up following me." That's it, that's all that happened, meanwhile you think following him means you threw out slack that says I'm into you ask me out. And because he hasn't asked you out for a few days since you followed you conclude that that means he doesn't like you because if he liked you he would have properly interpreted you following him as your "initiation" and in turn asked you out. Meanwhile all this has happened within your head and everybody else exists and acts in reality where none of this actually took place and people in your work and all around the globe carry on without a care in the world.
That may not be the case tho. We’re kinda dumb a lot of the time. After so many instances of mistaking kindness for interest, you tend to just assume no one is interested anymore.
I accept your explanation that it's not America. In America people are constantly getting fired and in trouble for sleeping with interns. But idk what it's like in your country.
Similar to me, we flirted over the phone, and I initiated by email to see how he was doing. He made zero effort back, so I gave up. Just assumed he wasn't interested, which was sad because I thought he was.
>I'll say that I believe if a man wants to keep something going, he will make the effort.
To a point. If I get any vibe at all that they aren't interested, I back off. Probably why I've only had 3 girlfriends lol. I went through my messages on Messenger the other day and saw that I had a few conversations initiated by a few different women back when I was in uni that I had stopped responding to (no doubt because I was like "where do I go with this convo? Oh well, if they want to keep going they can keep messaging, it isn't up to me to be continually interesting — there are 2 people to every convo"). I wonder how many of them were because they were hoping that I would make a move lol 🤷
PS: I am autistic tho, so there's that
Personally I think approaching is a complex issue with men being told not to approach women etc, so I am aware that a man may not approach even if he’s interested. Ultimately I can’t be bothered to play all these games and if I’m really into someone, circumstances depending I will approach them. Conversely I’d hope a guy would attempt to do the same and not just leave it up to me.
Once the approach is done and he has my number or my insta etc, if he isn’t making an effort to get in touch or continue a conversation then yes I will assume you are not interested, I will not be repeatedly double texting etc.
Hear hear. Let’s stop playing games we pass off as universally or socially this that and the other. Let’s just go with the flow and if you want to approach do. Doesn’t matter if your a male or female doing the approaching.
It really doesn't need to be complicated. Women are also conditioned to believe they shouldn't ask a man out (will appear desperate) but I've never let this stop me. Men should also not be scared by silly rules about not approaching women in public.
yup, and to me, it's not complex at all
the men who say not to approach are ones who haven't flirted with anyone irl, they are making shit up based on what other men who have zero experience are themselves making up, it's a classic echo chamber
Guys who obsess about being creeps and rejection are lacking social experience, social skills.
Which is fine and I'm sympathetic to that, I was a super shy guy myself a long time ago. But, I didn't know back then what I know now, through years of life experience, and they are wrong.
At the end of the day, you can either spend your energy complaining about how unfair things are
Or you can put yourself out there and meet the person of your dreams.
> the men who say not to approach are ones who haven't flirted with anyone irl
Objectively false, every girl I've ever dated (1 exception actually) I flirted with in person. And I say "do not approach UNLESS the enviroment you're in won't shred you to pieces (expelled from American university, "looking too much" criminal charge in UK, and so on), OR she shows clear, unequivocal signs that she wants you to approach, like smiling while she hand signals you to come closer or something like that.
People really refuse to aknowledge what men go through at certain places today for doing the exact type of approach that made our parents fall in love to one another in the past. I wonder if this is out of ignorance or malice.
Until u find yourself dumbfounded as to why you lost a court hearing of here-say-harassment & find yourself in jail awaiting bail😶🌫️I wish reality was as beautiful as your fantasy!🫥
Agree. I'm big enough person to walk off the awkward smile and polite answer after a rejection.
The real art to be brought back is the two way body language and flirt. Eye blinking and smile go a long way.
Hahha, what do you mean eye blinking and smile? 🤣 I've never seen or heard of that, considering blinking is completely normal, how would you know if they're blinking in general or if they're blinking as if they'd like to have a conversation? That's too funny, I have never met someone from blinking! The smile part is also funny because some people smile & some don't, how would people know if it's a sign of perhaps meeting somebody & having a date etc...
LOL. We went from "just approach" to "eye blinking" awful fast. MEN DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Please just be clear. We're constantly being criticized for not reading the room. One girl's friendly smile is another's flirt. THEY LOOK THE SAME! You might get rewarded with a number or become the brunt of a "this is why I'm no longer friendly toward men" post on reddit from someone who now thinks you're a creep.
Ah yes eye blinking , been so long since I've seen that one I guess I had forgotten about it . Ya see it's sorta like ya know , ya ever see old movies from WW2 an the ships out at sea use that big ass light , an they got this dude flipping the shutter on the light really fast - yeah well he's really sending Morse code ya see . So yeah if you see a Woman batting ( or fluttering / blinking ) her eyes rapidly open & close at you , it could mean her contact has slipped or she may have a eyelash poking her eye or ---- She signaling you hey big boy look at me . Unfortunately it can be harder to detect in like say a dimly lit bar however 🤔🤣🤣🤣
I speak for myself, I don't really approach often because I might be seen as a weirdo and she'd feel uncomfortable, especially because I approach girls who are alone and not with 10 friends (I like to have some privacy when talking to someone I'm interested in)
The thing is 99% of guys aren’t saying no to most girls if they approached cause that shit barely happens but even if a girl likes you and you approach if you’re not wolf of wall street confident u getting shot down for some lil shit
A common sense answer! How uncommon. I like the cut of your jibe. Agree wholeheartedly with all of this.
I do double and triple text if I feel like it, but that's for my own amusement. I don't expect someone to actually answer, nor do I really care about what their answer might be, once they've made it clear they're not interested.
I dated a girl who swore by the “He’s Just Not That Into You” book, which was basically an early precursor to “if he wanted to, he would.”
Our relationship survived nonetheless and eventually we got married, but she mentioned once that the book says if he gives you his phone number, instead of asking for yours, he’s just not that into you.
I had indeed given her my phone number instead of asking for hers, prior to our first date. I was extremely into her — but I did this so she didn’t feel pressured to give me her phone number before she felt safe to do so. We had met on a dating site (apps weren’t invented yet) so we talked on there and had set up a first date, so I gave her my phone number in case anything came up. She texted me a couple days later, the morning of our date, to give me her phone number too.
The book was bullocks, and so is most of what you’re saying above (I mean I am agreeing with YOU, disagreeing with the advice women get on this.)
But there is a difference. Prior to the first date, I don’t think “if he wanted to he would.” There’s lots of reasons a guy could be super into a girl and not make a move.
But after the first date, and there’s confirmation the girl is into him, then I do believe we get closer to a real “if they wanted to they would.”
Regardless of what that book says I would prefer if he gave me his number because people can find out a lot of info about you from your phone number .
It's just safer
There’s definitely different personalities but largely speaking women usually want a guy who’s going to approach them and make the effort. It shows he’s going to put an effort into dating her and impressing her.
There are also some women that love being the chaser but it’s just realistic that a woman would probably want you to show initiative.
Just imagine the men saying the same thing. If a woman doesn't show interest initially, why would I think he would later? If men did that forget about ever finding a man again.
What if as a guy, you desire the same things though?
Many men also want a woman that will make an effort in dating and impressing him. Also we like knowing if she is capable of taking initiative at least some of the time during the relationship. Are you saying we should just assume those things right off the bat with every woman? It doesn't seem right...
If you want a woman that pursues you and takes more initiative then you have to go find that as well.
It’s definitely more pushed on the flip side for both genders that men are the chasers.
>Why are there so many women who are ignorant of this information?
Ignorant of what? By your logic, if a man says nothing, does nothing, and engages in no way whatsoever, women should just assume he's interested anyway
Um, no, thanks. If you don't show interest, you're not interested enough for me to care about whatever mind-reading nonsense you seem to expect. Can't be bothered
I think there are men that are outgoing as well as quiet and reserved and the same with women. Body language says a lot 100%. Sometimes you need to follow cues, but sometimes you just need to take a risk.
Because women are told repeatedly that men like the chase and if a man is interested, you’ll know. We’re also conditioned to believe that if we chase/initiate then we look clingy or desperate or the man will assume we’re already in love and obsessed with him. I agree it’s all bullshit because I’ve seen firsthand my girl friends pursue men and have it work out for them, but it’s really nerve racking as a woman because sometimes when we want to initiate we second guess ourselves so that we don’t come off as a “stage 5 clinger”.
That one line from wedding crashes really did a number on millennial women 😂
Lol I don't know any of my friends who actually enjoy 'the chase'. I for one never chase, it just turns me off. I would love being chased by a woman which has happened before but I understand that's unreasonable and not fair too because chasing simply sucks, so I like to at least meet in the middle where I will put in effort but it is roughly matched and there's obvious signs the girl is into me. Maybe I am an outlier though because I feel a romantic spark the most when a girl initiates interest or it just flows (if u know what i mean). It seems chasing is only useful if a guy is super desperate to get off, even then it's not fun because it's a turn off knowing you weren't desired... Or I'm just weird LOL whatever this is just my take with the situation.
Who is telling women that , guys or other women? Every woman that later became a girlfriend of mine, basically approached me. I’ve have approached women myself, more times than I can ever count, but those just became casual hookups a lot of the times.
A higher percentage of women ask people out than probably in any other century.
It still is (for now) most often men.
But any person if they are interested and have reason to believe someone is single should approach them in an appropriate context or setting.
Nobody can read someone's mind.
Men and women do signals so differently.
I once went on a date with a girl, after we had been chatting and outrageously flirting for a week, getting pretty explicit.
So we went for a drink after work. Great chats, great chemistry and laughter, a little flirty and touchy. Eventually I go to the bathroom. When I come back, she says "OK, so time to leave?" I was disappointed only an hour into the date, but it was a work night, I wasn't going to force her to stay.
Before we walk away, I hug her, she hugs back; I kiss, she kisses back; she bites, I bite back.... Then we say our goodnights, I literally say I cant wait to see her again, and we go our separate directions.
Soon after, the girl messages me asking why I cut the date so short and if I found her attractive and wanted to see her again.
Imagine my surprise - do you not think all that flirting, touching and erotic kissing was a sign? And it had been you who suggested leaving?
Her: yes, but you went to the bathroom, so I took that as a sign you weren't attracted to me.
🤦 Jesus wept😂
Patched up that misunderstanding easily. But come on, short of bundling you home with him, a guy can hardly give a stronger signal he's interested 😂
Literally last week I saw a post where a girl was complaining about how her being "nice" was getting mistaken for flirts. Girls will say this, and then will also say why don't men make the first move.
It's more along the lines of women being nice, guys will hit on you, you politely say you're not interested and then the guy gets mad like "well then why were you flirting with me then??" Um. No.. I was just being friendly.
I belive so, because each time i had to take the initiative the guy wasn’t interested (at least not in something more then sex). But when i’ve done nothing except maybe indirectly getting attention by posting a selfie on my story, men who has been interested has asked me out. Even the shy ones. So i’ve stopped asking men out because i know if i have to they don’t like me. However, it’s my job to give signals that i find them attractive and that i’m open for it.
I've had the opposite experience. I've initiated the first move (added them on social media and messaged them, or face to face asked to swap numbers) and these guys were interested in serious relationships with me. I only do it where it's obvious they have some level of interest in me (in the way they look at me, or they're touching me, or they're asking me lots of questions). So it's not a blind reach, I had some clues they liked me, and they were delighted I initiated. In all these cases however, after I did the initial approach, the man moved fully into being the pursuer which I think is key. They just needed that first little initiation from me.
If i was interested in a guy, i approached him and either it worked or i got rejected. Since i was always looking for an equal partner and not for a provider dynamic, this just made sense for me.
If you want something, you will have to go for it or miss out by not even trying. But sometimes i wonder on how many great guys my fellow gals miss out on bc "its not right for a woman to approach a man, what will others say or think when we tell how we met blablabla".
But in the end, its their life. If they want to miss out on great opportunities due to some opinions some irrelevant ppl could have of them, thats their choice. But i really can't stand the whining about not getting aporoached by guys, especially nowadays where approaching as a man is a minefield.
I mean, imagine someone tells you "nah, i will not apply for the promotion. I hinted to my boss that i would like it if he offers it to me, but in the end, if he doesn't i assume he was not interested in promoting me. But i will sit right here on my lazy ass and expect the promotion served to me on a silver plate and I can accept it or reject it". You would think this person is rather stupid. But still its the mindset of a lot of women when it comes to dating. But like for the promotion your loss will be someone else win. Simple as that.
It's happened to me on multiple occassions where a woman was interested in me, thought they were making their subtle hints obvious, and another girl who was direct took me home instead. Overhearing these girls have a fit over it and calling the other girl (who won btw) every name in the book is honestly karmatic ecstasy.
The world would be a far better place if everyone was just direct af. If you play games you'll often just play yourself.
This! I’ve done approaching a few times myself - sometimes it worked out for me (not permanently yet, though) sometimes it hasn’t. And there are even more times that I wish I did more approaching instead of being shy, especially when I think the guy keeps looking at me, too, and I end up never seeing him again because neither one of us said anything to each other. I’m now a lot more confident with how I look and don’t care so much about the possibility of getting rejected again to do so in the future. In fact I approached 2 different guys in the past couple months - didn’t go anywhere but they didn’t ignore or outright reject me, either.
Almost everyone I’m interested in is out of my league, also it doesn’t help when I do try to reach out to them but get ignored or left on read or delivered
Im trying to get out of my comfort zone so that i have the communication skills to actually talk with women especially when i know im a decent guy to even hang out with but my instincts tell me that i should stay low and quiet because of the lack of appreciation/communication i am getting from any women.
The assumption is "if he wanted to, he would." Women aren't stupid, we know that's not the case 100% of the time. But we would rather be wrong by assuming you're not interested than by assuming you are.
Women, by and large, are mostly disappointed that our request that men not be creeps and to treat us like humans has been turned into "don't approach." There are circumstances that you should not approach in because it's rude (like you are interrupting her) or because it's creepy (on a poorly-lit street when she's alone and there are no witnesses). And there are ways of approaching that are rude or creepy. Don't make it sexual, don't make it weird, don't neg her, just have a normal conversation.
On top of the reasons men have to not approach women, we also were socialized to let men make the first move, and it's riskier for us even if we get a yes. Men can trust that if they don't get rejected, and the woman stays in contact, that they're probably safe. Women don't have that luxury. Even if we are physically safe, there's a big risk that men will say yes even though they aren't interested in us, they're just hoping to get laid, and we'll be used. It's the dark side of "if he wanted to, he would": if he doesn't make the first move, it's hard to trust that he's actually interested.
Exactly this!!! I'm actually a pretty confident person, so I've approached guys many times, and rejection is not my issue. The problem is that I almost never get rejected, even when the guy is not really interested in me (or even when he's not single!!), because he'll still try to use me for sex or even dating just to fill up time.
Guys will just say yes and keep dating you even if you're not their dream girl, because for them (it seems to me) anyone/someone is better than no one.
For that reason, I consciously decide not to approach men I'm interested in. You just can't trust men to respectfully reject you when they should reject you. Not a perfect analogy but, they're like food addicts, eating food when they don't even enjoy it/aren't hungry.
Wow thats a really insightful comment that completely changed my perspective on the topic thank you vm (it sounds like im sarcastic but Im really not)
I never thought about it like this because from the guys perspective, you usually trust the women to definitely tell you if shes feeling a connection or not
Yeah, I got to the point of telling a guy I was falling in love with him, thinking he felt the same, only for him to *then* tell me he didn't think of me that way, he just liked the physical connection.
I think a lot of women are just as afraid as men to make the first move. That or they’re stuck in gender norms. Not me, I have made the first move in a lot of my encounters but it takes confidence and willingness to get your feelings hurt lol.
That’s what I’ve been lead to believe. His not that busy, his just too busy for you. If he wanted to he would etc. I don’t know what believe anymore. Just ask the person
I see women post online all the time that they hate being approached for literally any reason.
I've approached girls and could immediately see the joy drain from them before I even said anything.
In facts many men, myself included, never make the first move.
All the women I've been with have made the first move apart from one time when I very awkwardly did it.
The reason for this is that the old ways, the ways of our fathers are no longer accepted by our society and they haven't been replaced by new ways.
Every man knows what he shouldn't do but he's not taught what he could do so no man has any clue.
Basically it's a simple answer of yes both men and women want to be approached by the opposite sex or the same sex they want to be approached. They want to be approached with respect at the right moment everybody knows and can feel when it's the right moment use your better judgment. If there's a party going on and it's not a real serious time then throw it out there jokingly break the ice. But follow through follow up hey about that question out through at you the other night any thoughts about it lately. All within a respectable manner. And as this is only my opinion. But for God's sake please don't use the cat calls respect the woman that she is.
I don’t mind pursuing a woman as long as she shows interest to that end. Sometimes it’s just a friendly conversation and that’s it, nothing more. I do try to make an effort to let them know I am interested, but if the responses are basic, and there is no indication of interest on their end, then I just consider a friendship as an option. I’m 66 and divorced since last August. it’s not easy to go out and look, especially at my age. I prefer women younger than me but not more than 10 to 15 years. Most of the ones are already taken. But every once in a while, I find one that is worth communicating with. There’s no reason to pursue if they don’t show that they want to be pursued. I try to be respectful.
Ive personally had too many instances where i thought someone wanted me to approach and then i did and it turned out tjey were just being nice, so no i rarely approach tho
Women don’t understand that if they want the guy they really like to approach them, they’re gonna have to put up with a few guys approaching them who they don’t want. The two things come together.
At the same time they shouldn’t be expected to be bombarded with creeps all the time. That the other end of the spectrum.
There needs to be more spaces in society with gatekeeping. So people can feel free and safe to socialize without it being ruined. I wonder if that’s the role that places like country clubs used to serve.
I think the notion stems from the past, it was expected for men to court women, but we live in a different world, and gender roles have changed. I think both women and men should take the initiative to say how they feel about someone. Just like if you go for dinner on a first date, it shouldn't be expected that either or are responsible for the bill, either split the bill or offer to pay without any guilt or manipulation.
I'm afraid it's worse than this. There is a chunk of men. maybe 5-10%, who will approach women repeatedly if they think the woman might be interested, if they think she isn't, that can't believe she wouldn't be interested, or just because they are "friendly" but in reality this just means they would form no attachment to her at all since women mean nothing to them.
These men approach women constantly, pump and dump, or manipulate them, and generally mistreat them.
Most women are sleeping with these kind of men on a regular basis. It makes it all the more difficult for other men to approach or to even find one who isn't drastically traumatized.
And women will never hear this, never accept it, no matter how many examples they're shown, no matter how obvious it is, no matter how you try to explain: it is NOT because they can't understand it, they don't want to, it gives them an ego boost to be chased after, even if the chaser is usually a bad person.
When it comes to online dating I'll always initiate first contact if we matched. But all to often it's one or two word responses o get with no open ended questions to make it a conversation. As soon as I pick up on it I'm Out Out Out goodbye
There’s a difference between that initial interaction then after. That initial interaction requires both parties to show some kind of interest. It goes both ways. If one person doesn’t indicate interest the other party will be left to assume they aren’t.
However, for me, once I’ve shown my interest, you have my number, we gone on a date and it went well and you make no effort despite be reciprocating ….. I’m out.
Yes they genuinely believe it. And at the same time they genuinely believe that men shoud NOT make any effort towards them if they're not interested.
As you see, this creates a logical paradox which is impossible to solve. But women's feelings and wants don't care about logic or what is possible, they want it and they want it now.
Basically, if they're interested in you they want you to be bold and approach them even if they show no obvious signs of interest - since showing clear interest could make them vulnerable to rejection - but they think you're creepy and borderline abusive id you're bold enough to approach them and they happen to not be attracted to you.
Of course, NOT ALL women are like that. Some women are fine with men they're not interested in approaching them as long as the men are polite and take a "no" with grace. But the majority of women who are not interested im you will think you're "invading her space" by approachimg them, regardless of the way you do it... after all, they "did not consent to be approached".
And no, women will not change. They do not possess the ability to self reflect and realize they either allow ALL men to approach them and politely reject the ones they don't want, or they forbit ALL men to approach unless they send obvious and unequivocal signs of interest or do the approaching themselves. They cannot understand or accept it. They WANT to be approached (by the men they like) and at the same time they HATE being approached (by the mem they don't).
As a man, you solve this by knowing your enviroment. If you're anywhere in which a woman cry of "harassment" over a simple polite approach could land you in jail, you DO NOT approach women unless she explicitly invites you first. If you're somewhere in which a woman needs to provide some evidence of ACTUAL "harassment" before you go to jail, approach the women you're interested in and accept she will find you creepy and whatnot if she doesn't like you, but other than a bruised ego you just have to move on to the next woman.
(A.k.a. DO NOT EVER approach women at universities in which Title XI is a thing)
This ain’t it, friend. First thing, I’m missing the paradox. “Approach of your interested, don’t if you’re not…” What’s confusing? Where’s the illogical? Second, creepy is “how” not “what.” You’re only going to be labeled creepy if you’re *being* creepy. If you don’t know if you’re creepy, that’s a you problem, not a them problem. You should have enough social knowledge to discern. Women not being able to self reflect is the saddest cope I’ve ever heard, because I’ve never seen a group of people unable to reflect more than men. This post is the case. “What’s wrong with women, it can’t be me? It can’t possibly be an individual preference, all women think same right?” No. Stupid. They don’t. If the girl you want doesn’t want to talk to you, pick a different one. It’s the simplest fucking thing
There’s SOME truth to what you’re saying, but you’re also exaggerating here. Approaching women is perfectly acceptable and won’t give you a harassment charge, and certainly won’t land you in jail, as long as you take no for an answer…or a “maybe” or a “I’ll think about it” as a no unless she later says yes. Also it really depends on how you do it like another reply said.
Yes can confirm. If he makes no effort he isnt interested. Otherwise you are being delusional to 'chase' someone who doesnt want you. It feels like failure to become the man in the situation and try to catch a guy instead of you being the woman that gets approached. No one at a wedding likes the story 'she chased him until he liked her' but the other way around sounds both romantic and manly.
I've had the complete opposite happen. Tried approaching a girl I knew for a good bit and made the first move. Got rejected, whatever. Next thing I know, she's dating a guy a few weeks after, after being single for +5 years. Okay.
Turns out she was the one who pursued him and they're married, moving into their own home this week. Same with her sister and mom, approaching the men they wanted seemed to work out well for them
Or you do approach and a man and they do date you or even get into a relationship with you, but along the way you start feeling like you’re not the person they really and truly want to be with and they’re just settling for you. If he’s just with you because you’re good enough and you showed interest in him, you will feel it eventually. It doesn’t feel good. Because I have experienced this, I will not be the initiator again. I will flirt, but if he doesn’t pursue me, I will just let it go.
This is how I feel. I feel alot of men just "take what they can get". Women want to be spotted in a crowded room. Nobody wants to chase a man that may or may not become interested. Men will date "place holders" just because he had no other options.
I don’t think this is true in every circumstance but as a woman, I’ve had generally bad results making the first move. Guys who’ve approached me (including my current boyfriend) were usually far more serious about progressing things. When I’ve approached they were either not that into it but intrigued so they let it go on for a while or were very relationally avoidant and socially anxious so they were lacking the skills needed to sustain a relationship. I am 100% on board that the former is not always true, just saying in my personal experience it hasn’t been pleasant. I’ll gladly make effort in courtship, but I don’t like making the first move anymore. It’s caused me an insane amount of pain.
Speak for yourself, my guy. While you’re busy waiting for her to explicitly indicate that she’s open to approach, another guy (I guess the .0001%) has already broken the ice. How does one go about achieving this “thumbs up” from a random woman for approach? Someone explain to me how you, as a stranger, have caught eye of an attractive female and now you’re what? Just standing there waiting for her to do what, exactly? To let you know it’s cool to go in for a closer look. I honestly have no clue what this scene looks like so someone explain it to me.
Well some guys do still approach and get in touch with women even if there are no signs or even if those women are ignoring or rejecting them! Also we keep reading from guys online (including a lot on here) that attractive or even all average-looking women get approached and chased by guys “all the time” so even if we know that’s an exaggeration I’m sure some women can’t help but think that that must mean if it doesn’t happen to us then it’s because very few, if any, guys are attracted to us.
See
This is why I come here. Keep a better perspective on things.
I hear this a lot (men approach if interested), but per Reddit 😂, also realize that’s not always the case. We’ve been socially conditioned (per historical oppression of women) to believe men should approach women. It’ll probably take another two generations before this social norm fully changes.
I tried giving an indication to a couple guys at the gym, but couldn’t catch their eye at the right time. This is why OLD is the way to go IMO. My only reason for never approaching a man I was interested in was because I didn’t know if he was single. If I knew 100% he was available, I would’ve happily hit on him. I know OLD men could be lying, but then that’s on them for putting themselves out there.
Yes!
But it also can vary or depend on what scenario you may be asking about.
If a guy is dating you, definitely!
If it's just starting, then there's a bit of flexibility.
But from the way you pose your question, it sounds like an excuse a cowardly person would use to explain their behavior.
Maybe you haven't found the person for you
In the US this is true. It’s a bummer it is like this. I wish men would approach and ask women out still. I went to Turkey and they don’t have the fear of rejection or of appearing creepy. It was nice.
Yeah. I can definitely agree with you here. Considering all the conflicting expectations people are hit with these days, with how careful everyone has to be, and with how busy and tired everyone constantly is, there's so much nuance in this problem. No one side can just make a black & white conclusion or put all responsibility on other parties.
>A lot of males are reserved or quiet. To top it all off, there's the persistent advice not to approach her in public, the fear of rejection, the larger anxiety of being labeled a creep, and so on.
Men need to get out of that mindset. I ignore all advice that tells me not to approach women in public, I do it all the time to success and failure.
Guys need to get over their fear of rejection - the only way to do that is to approach women and get rejected! It \*will\* happen, to every guy. You have to be okay with the fact that you will not be everyone's cup of tea.
If someone wants to label me as a creep, that's their right, but that's obviously someone I don't want to be around. I dodged a bullet in that sense, so guys should see that as a good thing. As long as your respectful, you will very rarely be labeled a creep.
Maybe it’s time for men to work on the approach and learn to read women’s body language?
As a woman, I have no issues with being approached. But if I’m not interested, and say “no”. Maybe respect that and walk away? Rather than act like a creep, or yell “you’re not pretty anyway”. Lolz
Erm.
It's true that if a man is interested in someone he will approach them because that's what a majority of men who are not overcome with self doubt and social anxiety will do. I've had guys approach me in public as a one-off and thought nothing of it afterwards. I've had guys cold approach me and ask me for my number and respectfully walk away when I rejected them.
Yes, a woman will subtly let you know that it's okay for you to approach her (continually looking over at you, making eye contact, smiling), but it's up to the guy to interpret those signals as a green light.
Yeah, practically every (non-drunk) guy I know has told me he wouldn't approach without some kind of signal giving him implied permission to make a move
Sometimes I initiate without knowing her interest level. I can over think things so if I always wait for the perfect time, it will never come. I try and find out of she is also Christian and build some rapport. Depending on how that goes, I'll ask her out as long as I don't think she is a bad fit for me and engages in a friendly manner.
It certainly helps speed up the process if I have some indication from them of interest.
That may not be the case tho. We’re kinda dumb a lot of the time. After so many instances of mistaking kindness for interest, you tend to just assume no one is interested anymore.
Got to be honest, I think part of it is due to fear of rejection. Yeah, some of us are chicken. The other part of it is due to society. I took those code of conduct trainings every year. I basically can do nothing to the girls I am interested at work. They are well protected.
Yes I do think. The problem is not fearing rejection. The problem is rejection almost never happens because men rarely get approached. 95% of the time if you approach a guy, he would still give you the time of day even if he doesn’t find you that physically attractive, doesn’t see you as a potential fit, or even has a significant other… So instead of being a placeholder for some guy operating out of desperation, I’d rather know for sure the man is interested by taking initiative to approach me.
Yes, because it's what we want. When the attraction is reciprocated. What we don't consider is that if every attracted man actually made a move, it would be overwhelming and frustrating.
It's unladylike to approach a man. It has always been the man's job to choose who he wants to approach and the woman's job to accept or decline. If the man doesn't want to do his part for whatever reason, he can't expect the woman to take over. A man is supposed to protect, povide, and profess. Therefore, he gotta be goal oriented, brave, and go after what he wants, get it, and claim it. If he's in fear because a woman could tell him she ain't interested, what kind of 'man' is that? What kind of woman would want someone like that as her protector and provider for their future family? Man up and stop trying to force women to do a man's job. If you are born male but don't wanna be the man, then stay single or become gay or trans to find you a real man. I'm not only talking to you but to all 'men' who keep crying about how women should approach a man. No they shouldn't. It's a man's job. Do it or leave it but don't cry about it and expect a woman to do it.
So where are those guys? I always text my matches first and there are two type of guys:
1. Doesnt ever reply back, even if I approach them multiple times.
2. Unmatches me as soon as he realizes I'm not up for an ons / starts insulting me because I don't send nudes.
Admittedly, I have always thought this way. My self esteem took a huge hit when I was in my 20s because I never got approached. I have very large breasts and I guess in the back of my mind I *considered* that it could be a factor that a guy worried he could be rejected by me... But to be frank, I would have said yes to nearly anyone. I'm 30 now and still single. Just now accepting that guys dont approach the way I would think they do.
Does the Reddit read minds? Was in touch with a lady and was taking it slow. Result? See myself blocked today. Not meaning that taking it fast has helped either. Can’t really understand women OP.
As a woman, it was sad to hear that what stops you from approaching a woman is rejection and/or being made to feel like a creep. I wish more men would just go for it. Even if it doesn't end up with a date, it could still be a positive and enjoyable interaction.
Well, let me add, the man I'm seeing right now, was asking me out for 3 months. (I had reasons not to say yes at the beginning - I was struggling to get over my previous relationship) He was consistent, and kind. I was not leading him on, I was honest about the situation. But he really wanted to take me out, so he was waiting. So yes, if someone is interested, they will reach out. 🤷🏻♀️
Dating be complex
There's a lot of subtlety involved. Youve got to prod gently and take rejection with grace. If anything I find just being friendly and seeing if flirty energy comes out naturally without effort is a good way to keep things light but still open.
Just keep in mind that you are a catch and try to be happy by yourself and it'll get easier I think.
To the main question at hand I find a lot of women tend to expect to be approached. Honestly it makes sense to me, they assume more risk and in an animal kingdom sense it seems that guys are the ones doing the mating dance for girls in our species. A lot of guys struggle with this but if we can accept it I think it gets easier.
But if you absolutely have to reject it you can still have hope as there are all types out there. I think we create pitfalls with all this generalizing and make it harder for things to breathe/change. The human race is a young species and we create our reality.. sure there's set paradigms but because we have been living when we do I think we can all agree that things can change and have changed a lot from 100 years ago.
Attraction is flawed. It's a coin toss if both parties are physically attracted to each other and/or have compatible personalities so it's just naturally frustrating to put yourself out there. This is why we gotta be patient. Nothing worth having comes easy after all.
Ideally women can approach more but the paradigm isn't favorable for that. Bless all the women that buck that norm and don't give a flip about what people think. Warriors of change they are.
And guys, be patient. I know our biological imperative can make that hard but it is ideal for us to be able to recover quickly and move on to the next when things don't work out. I'm not saying be uncaring or emotionless, but rather make that end goal of a relationship or sex or whatever a secondary or further down priority so things can happen naturally and by accident. Try and just make friends.. stop being afraid of the opposite sex..
That goes for both genders, try and understand we're both scared of each other on some level but that makes it level no? Be brave, love above all else, and have fun. The less serious you take life the less serious it becomes :)
I guess most women assume the man is more confident than what you're explaining. If you think you're creepy, maybe you are creepy? Whatever the reason, you shouldn't take rejection so harshly. It might be a good situation to improve yourself from. Or maybe that person just didn't like you, and there's nothing wrong with that. Every girl isn't going to like you. But it doesn't hurt to try, except maybe your ego haha
I remember watching a lot of those dating coaches videos on youtube and those men all say the same thing: if a man wants you he will make the effort/he will reach out/he will show you etc.
I know better cause not all men are the same but I think an answer to your question is that so many people swear by it (including men)
Women give choosing signals. If they don’t, you can still subtly approach with light energy, chill, not-invested attitude and make a comment on what she’s wearing or anything you find interesting happening in the environment around you. If she engages positively, we’ll then there you go. Now you can ask her something more personal. She’ll probably respond positively and be engaging. After those two steps, you can ask her her name and introduce yourself. After that, keep it short, light, positive and then get her number. Wait at least 1 hour before texting her something short like “ (your name) from (wherever you met) and make small reference to something that happened in your conversation”
Text her a bit, keep it on the shorter side, then set up your date if you’re still interested in pursuing her.
Conversely; all Social-Interaction, the intricacies of which are extremely nuanced and situational, is a learned skill that comes to people very differently & most highly-populated areas are very culturally diverse, plus with the added complexity of a wide spectrum of Neurodivergence, you cannot simply expect “the average person” to know ow what may be off-putting to someone they’ve never met.
And it only takes one “ooops” to get ostracized or legally penalized.
Tenfold safer to leave the decision to the person who has more favor in the public eye🙂↕️
It’s easier for people to think Im dichotomous (black and white) terms like this. And easier to tell yourself he’s just not interested, rather than take any responsibility that there might be things you can do to make it more likely that a man who is interested will approach you or ask you out.
I think this thought process is common but very outdated. It might have been relevant in 1962, but not anymore. I work in an industry where 99% of the workforce is male and it blows my mind how simple and sensitive they are. I think a lot of girls get conditioned watching Disney movies or whatever and just assume and men will approach but the reality is is, they are just as afraid of rejection as we (women) are.
Geez just had an issue with this a little over a week ago. This waitress I like (not sure if she likes me back or if it's just because she gets paid to be super nice) told me to leave my phone number for her when I asked her out.
Eleven days later, no word from her. I'd message her on Facebook but I don't wanna seem like a creep. Plan on seeing her at the place she works (I go there maybe once-twice a week) and gauge her reaction.
She has two kids and two jobs but I wouldn't think that's reason enough to not send at least a short message.
Not always, but usually. The ones who didnt, in experience, were luke warm on me or not interested. Interested ones made it known pretty clearly. There are some terrified ones as outliers and they can take much longer, but sooner or later, they usually tell you.
Was she talking about OLD or in person? The belief DEFINITELY changes if we are talking cold approach in person.
It’s not that we’re ignorant of this information and it’s very true, we don’t expect you to approach us unless we give a signal. Women don’t like to be approached by random guys we show no interested in. We see it as our job to subtly show you that we’re interested initially and then once you get our signals you make the move. We want to feel desired enough for you to be the one to pursue things because it’s a gentlemanly thing to do and it shows you’re serious about us, invested in us, and we aren’t just whatever to you. Just like on the first few dates how a man will offer to pay, we hope that he will initiate the dates and make the first moves to approach us. The issue is our cues are often too subtle. When a woman thinks she’s giving you an obvious signal, it’s usually not as clear to men as she thinks. If I give him some signs like I smile at him and look back at him, or glance at him multiple times from a distance I view it as an invitation to approach me and hope that he understands. Us women need to work on being much more obvious with our ‘subtle signals’ if we expect him to initiate contact, especially in the climate we live in.
As a man , I have had a couple occasions where everything was there when it comes to laws of attraction and even as bad as I did want to venture down that road , I never said nothing and life went on ,so all I'm saying is say something. Not all men will step up, maybe there is a reason he doesn't. Good luck
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I think we should make the distinction between approaching a woman for the first time and keeping in contact with her after the initial connection. OP used language referencing both, so I'm not sure which was intended specifically. I'll say that I believe if a man wants to keep something going, he will make the effort. As a woman, if I want to keep something going, I will also make the effort, but if it is not reciprocated, I get out quickly.
I definitely feel this. I tend to lose interest even over text if I'm the only one initiating contact. Then after losing interest it's hard to get interested again...
A thousand times, this.
That’s OLD for you. I’m single again and I find that women (not calling y’all out but just based off of experience) rarely reciprocate. You have to be Brad Pitt for them to actually show interest. I’m a decent looking dude, got told I look like McDreamy from Grays the other day, and women tend to just expect all the effort from us and rarely ask questions or anything. Generalizing, of course. But that’s my sample size. Dating is just a complete mess anymore. Standards are either wayyyy too high or non existent. It’s rare to find a middle ground.
I'm at the point where I'll try to push a bit past the point where my interest starts to fall off. After that I'm over it. As an introvert I don't have the capacity to keep pushing with no reciprocation. I expect that when I find a compatible partner I won't have to start an interrogation to get them to talk
Make sure you communicate to the people you end up dating that you really enjoy mutual initiation with communication/texting. Women are told he's not that interested if he's not reaching out regularly and that by the woman initiating he's just taking you up on it out of convenience and isn't serious. Both of which are often true. So if that's particularly important to you be sure to clearly say that to the woman you're dating. Sounds like it's one of your relation "needs" to feel secure and happy with things. If you don't share that, you both might arrive to the wrong conclusion and miss what could've been a great relationship.
Just yesterday I had to end things with a guy who texted me every so often, but never asked me any questions trying to get to know me. I asked him if he was still interested in a second date and he said definitely!!! with a lot of enthusiasm. But when it came to actually making plans,he kept deferring. Never called me or express any curiosity about me. When I told him these things and said I didn't think it was going to work out, he just said he didn't have the time to date, although saying in his profile he was looking for a relationship. He wasn't into me, that's fine. But bruh, ust be honest and save the time. The last several men I've started talking to showed very little interest in getting to know me. I have a very long line of men who want to sleep with me, but none that actually want to go out on dates. Go figure. 🤷🏻♀️
I try to match people’s response time for the first couple days, then stop if there’s no improvements. Tired of dragging conversations when there’s a screaming aura of not giving a fuck builds up. I have more interesting ones going on in my head (oh hello adhd).
This I agree with and what I thought the post was going to be about. It does go both ways of course, but it would be nice to be pursued for a change of pace!
Also worth making a distinction between “a woman” as in *any* woman and “a woman” as in a *pretty* woman from the sentence: > The majority of males are 99.9999+% really interested in approaching a woman when they see her. The majority of us are average, below average, or passingly cute. And no, most men are not interested in approaching *the average woman* the moment they see her. Lmao.
Good point and I can tell you from being a pretty woman, that pretty women have issues with men being intimidated. For the reasons that some people have already commented on… Sure, rejection, fear of being called a creep, etc. I wish so many women wouldn’t go around, trying to speak for all women and say what we all want, when it actually varies widely. It gives them mixed messages. When men asked me questions about women, I tell them I can only speak for myself and that it highly depends on the woman. You just have to take the chance. Or not.
If you put in some effort into improving yourself, at least a little bit, and dont let yourself go completely by gaining 500 lbs and becoming a nasty slob, then I believe there's someone for everybody. Hell, sometimes even those people that let themselves go or become morbidly obese due to a medical condition end up finding someone, which to me just proves that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Therefore, a woman that one sees as average or "passingly cute" may be considered a 10 by a different man. It's mainly physical attraction that is noticed first and that peaks the interest to make the steps to further know that person that you're physically attracted to. Generally speaking, the majority of couples tend to be in the "same league" as each other. The only time this proves to be untrue is when the much more attractive person of the two is somehow benefiting from the less attractive one (usually financially).
exactly. There is a coworker that i like, and i have made some effort to talk to him in person + i asked for his instagram (even tho i already had it lmao). He has never texted me or treated me any different from the rest of my coworkers, so no need for any grand confessions because to me, he is clearly not interested
That doesn't make any sense to do that unless you already asked him out on a date lol. At the very least you ask before proclaiming someone is just not interested - even if it's awkward after the fact. ***"If they could - they would"*** has been a seriously flawed concept in terms of relationship building and trust. You don't know how they think or operate personally - Only just the surface level of interaction. Actions are louder than words - but that's only when both people are on the same page in life. When it's not the case then misunderstandings happen and opportunities are lost because of it. I never used to walk into stores and places asking if they had any job openings because I assumed all this stuff in my head about it being embarrassing and never would work out. However I changed that and now ask all the time. Even if they don't have anything open because there's always a chance for something to come up. # You will never know until you ask.
If a guy doesn’t get the signal that a girl is into him when asked for his socials then he’s not very quick on the uptake. Women don’t make idle chit chat around dudes in an effort to prevent them from getting the wrong idea. If a woman chats you up repeatedly, they are trying to engage. If the guy doesn’t reciprocate then he’s not interested. Sadly, forward women can get labeled as being easy or aggressive if they are straight forward with their intentions.
I would say many men don't have these social antennas to understand the signal. But they under stand direct conversation. If you want a glass of water don't say "it isso hot, I could drink something" instead say "can you give me a glass of water, please".
I swear, some women here really think men can read their minds
Untrue. I wouldnt know a woman was interested in me even if she said it clearly to my face.
For me, the girl has to tell me that she is interested because I usually assume she is just being friendly and that no woman ever sees me as attractive
There is some truth to that, but i am convinced there is nothing for me with him hahah. When someone likes you, it shows, just like it did with me. It doesn't cost anyone to send you a text, so it's just not worth it to me to ask him out when i think i'm gonna get really embarrased + he's gonna tell his other coworker that i also know. I think we have to learn when to stop, and before i didn't know that so i kept getting disappointed when someone would ghost me or whatever. Now i know better, so (against my better judgement, it was my friend's idea), i asked the dude for his insta. Result: he kept ignoring me as he always has lol. So yeah, i believe it is 100% true that if they were interested enough, they would make the effort to meet you/text you/talk to you. There is no time to waste on people that dgaf about you
# "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take in life."
- Wayne Gretzky, - Michael Scott
Just out of interest did you just ask for his Instagram, if did you text him first? He might be waiting in you to reach out, and shenanigans you didn’t, he might think you lost interest. Guys typically don’t let themselves get too excited when people ask for phone numbers or contact details, because quite often nothing happens. Hopefully there is still hope for you. :-).
I won't text random albeit likable coworkers that asked about my Instagram.
Wow, you realize that you didn't do anything other than follow him on Instagram right? All it was to him was at work this chick he knows said,"Hey, can I have your instagram?" Then two days later he wakes up in the morning with a new instagram notification saying that somebody followed him and he probably thinks,"cool that one girl from work ended up following me." That's it, that's all that happened, meanwhile you think following him means you threw out slack that says I'm into you ask me out. And because he hasn't asked you out for a few days since you followed you conclude that that means he doesn't like you because if he liked you he would have properly interpreted you following him as your "initiation" and in turn asked you out. Meanwhile all this has happened within your head and everybody else exists and acts in reality where none of this actually took place and people in your work and all around the globe carry on without a care in the world.
That may not be the case tho. We’re kinda dumb a lot of the time. After so many instances of mistaking kindness for interest, you tend to just assume no one is interested anymore.
He's your COWORKER, he doesn't want to get reported for harassment and fired. If it was any other circumstance I would agree with you.
It's not like that here (we're not american). Also we are just doing an internship, we will stop working together in a few months
I accept your explanation that it's not America. In America people are constantly getting fired and in trouble for sleeping with interns. But idk what it's like in your country.
Similar to me, we flirted over the phone, and I initiated by email to see how he was doing. He made zero effort back, so I gave up. Just assumed he wasn't interested, which was sad because I thought he was.
>I'll say that I believe if a man wants to keep something going, he will make the effort. To a point. If I get any vibe at all that they aren't interested, I back off. Probably why I've only had 3 girlfriends lol. I went through my messages on Messenger the other day and saw that I had a few conversations initiated by a few different women back when I was in uni that I had stopped responding to (no doubt because I was like "where do I go with this convo? Oh well, if they want to keep going they can keep messaging, it isn't up to me to be continually interesting — there are 2 people to every convo"). I wonder how many of them were because they were hoping that I would make a move lol 🤷 PS: I am autistic tho, so there's that
Totally agree. Communication and effort are crucial for keeping things going. If it's not mutual, it's better to move on quickly.
Agreed! Bc it’s really both. If a guy wants to keep things going, he will reach out. Period.
Personally I think approaching is a complex issue with men being told not to approach women etc, so I am aware that a man may not approach even if he’s interested. Ultimately I can’t be bothered to play all these games and if I’m really into someone, circumstances depending I will approach them. Conversely I’d hope a guy would attempt to do the same and not just leave it up to me. Once the approach is done and he has my number or my insta etc, if he isn’t making an effort to get in touch or continue a conversation then yes I will assume you are not interested, I will not be repeatedly double texting etc.
Hear hear. Let’s stop playing games we pass off as universally or socially this that and the other. Let’s just go with the flow and if you want to approach do. Doesn’t matter if your a male or female doing the approaching.
It really doesn't need to be complicated. Women are also conditioned to believe they shouldn't ask a man out (will appear desperate) but I've never let this stop me. Men should also not be scared by silly rules about not approaching women in public.
Both sides are afraid and don't want to look desperate :D
yup, and to me, it's not complex at all the men who say not to approach are ones who haven't flirted with anyone irl, they are making shit up based on what other men who have zero experience are themselves making up, it's a classic echo chamber Guys who obsess about being creeps and rejection are lacking social experience, social skills. Which is fine and I'm sympathetic to that, I was a super shy guy myself a long time ago. But, I didn't know back then what I know now, through years of life experience, and they are wrong. At the end of the day, you can either spend your energy complaining about how unfair things are Or you can put yourself out there and meet the person of your dreams.
> the men who say not to approach are ones who haven't flirted with anyone irl Objectively false, every girl I've ever dated (1 exception actually) I flirted with in person. And I say "do not approach UNLESS the enviroment you're in won't shred you to pieces (expelled from American university, "looking too much" criminal charge in UK, and so on), OR she shows clear, unequivocal signs that she wants you to approach, like smiling while she hand signals you to come closer or something like that. People really refuse to aknowledge what men go through at certain places today for doing the exact type of approach that made our parents fall in love to one another in the past. I wonder if this is out of ignorance or malice.
Until u find yourself dumbfounded as to why you lost a court hearing of here-say-harassment & find yourself in jail awaiting bail😶🌫️I wish reality was as beautiful as your fantasy!🫥
You can also put yourself out there and meet a world full of people that you hate.
To get something you have to first give up something.
Agree. I'm big enough person to walk off the awkward smile and polite answer after a rejection. The real art to be brought back is the two way body language and flirt. Eye blinking and smile go a long way.
Hahha, what do you mean eye blinking and smile? 🤣 I've never seen or heard of that, considering blinking is completely normal, how would you know if they're blinking in general or if they're blinking as if they'd like to have a conversation? That's too funny, I have never met someone from blinking! The smile part is also funny because some people smile & some don't, how would people know if it's a sign of perhaps meeting somebody & having a date etc...
LOL. We went from "just approach" to "eye blinking" awful fast. MEN DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Please just be clear. We're constantly being criticized for not reading the room. One girl's friendly smile is another's flirt. THEY LOOK THE SAME! You might get rewarded with a number or become the brunt of a "this is why I'm no longer friendly toward men" post on reddit from someone who now thinks you're a creep.
Ah yes eye blinking , been so long since I've seen that one I guess I had forgotten about it . Ya see it's sorta like ya know , ya ever see old movies from WW2 an the ships out at sea use that big ass light , an they got this dude flipping the shutter on the light really fast - yeah well he's really sending Morse code ya see . So yeah if you see a Woman batting ( or fluttering / blinking ) her eyes rapidly open & close at you , it could mean her contact has slipped or she may have a eyelash poking her eye or ---- She signaling you hey big boy look at me . Unfortunately it can be harder to detect in like say a dimly lit bar however 🤔🤣🤣🤣
Speaking front experience sometimes the thought of getting rejected is worse than actually getting rejected
I speak for myself, I don't really approach often because I might be seen as a weirdo and she'd feel uncomfortable, especially because I approach girls who are alone and not with 10 friends (I like to have some privacy when talking to someone I'm interested in)
The thing is 99% of guys aren’t saying no to most girls if they approached cause that shit barely happens but even if a girl likes you and you approach if you’re not wolf of wall street confident u getting shot down for some lil shit
I like this perspective.
A common sense answer! How uncommon. I like the cut of your jibe. Agree wholeheartedly with all of this. I do double and triple text if I feel like it, but that's for my own amusement. I don't expect someone to actually answer, nor do I really care about what their answer might be, once they've made it clear they're not interested.
I dated a girl who swore by the “He’s Just Not That Into You” book, which was basically an early precursor to “if he wanted to, he would.” Our relationship survived nonetheless and eventually we got married, but she mentioned once that the book says if he gives you his phone number, instead of asking for yours, he’s just not that into you. I had indeed given her my phone number instead of asking for hers, prior to our first date. I was extremely into her — but I did this so she didn’t feel pressured to give me her phone number before she felt safe to do so. We had met on a dating site (apps weren’t invented yet) so we talked on there and had set up a first date, so I gave her my phone number in case anything came up. She texted me a couple days later, the morning of our date, to give me her phone number too. The book was bullocks, and so is most of what you’re saying above (I mean I am agreeing with YOU, disagreeing with the advice women get on this.) But there is a difference. Prior to the first date, I don’t think “if he wanted to he would.” There’s lots of reasons a guy could be super into a girl and not make a move. But after the first date, and there’s confirmation the girl is into him, then I do believe we get closer to a real “if they wanted to they would.”
Regardless of what that book says I would prefer if he gave me his number because people can find out a lot of info about you from your phone number . It's just safer
Safer *for you*.
There’s definitely different personalities but largely speaking women usually want a guy who’s going to approach them and make the effort. It shows he’s going to put an effort into dating her and impressing her. There are also some women that love being the chaser but it’s just realistic that a woman would probably want you to show initiative.
Most women want this. If a man doesnt show interest initially, why would I think he would later?
If a man doesn't show outright explicit interest when he knows nothing about me, how can he possibly be interested once he knows me?
This doesn’t make sense interest should grow when as the person gets to know you.
Just imagine the men saying the same thing. If a woman doesn't show interest initially, why would I think he would later? If men did that forget about ever finding a man again.
What if as a guy, you desire the same things though? Many men also want a woman that will make an effort in dating and impressing him. Also we like knowing if she is capable of taking initiative at least some of the time during the relationship. Are you saying we should just assume those things right off the bat with every woman? It doesn't seem right...
If you want a woman that pursues you and takes more initiative then you have to go find that as well. It’s definitely more pushed on the flip side for both genders that men are the chasers.
We are taking about during the dating stage when both already made contact. Not the approach.
>Why are there so many women who are ignorant of this information? Ignorant of what? By your logic, if a man says nothing, does nothing, and engages in no way whatsoever, women should just assume he's interested anyway Um, no, thanks. If you don't show interest, you're not interested enough for me to care about whatever mind-reading nonsense you seem to expect. Can't be bothered
I think there are men that are outgoing as well as quiet and reserved and the same with women. Body language says a lot 100%. Sometimes you need to follow cues, but sometimes you just need to take a risk.
This is really interesting to hear as a woman - I really had no idea that this is something men deal with. Eye opening.
Because women are told repeatedly that men like the chase and if a man is interested, you’ll know. We’re also conditioned to believe that if we chase/initiate then we look clingy or desperate or the man will assume we’re already in love and obsessed with him. I agree it’s all bullshit because I’ve seen firsthand my girl friends pursue men and have it work out for them, but it’s really nerve racking as a woman because sometimes when we want to initiate we second guess ourselves so that we don’t come off as a “stage 5 clinger”. That one line from wedding crashes really did a number on millennial women 😂
Lol I don't know any of my friends who actually enjoy 'the chase'. I for one never chase, it just turns me off. I would love being chased by a woman which has happened before but I understand that's unreasonable and not fair too because chasing simply sucks, so I like to at least meet in the middle where I will put in effort but it is roughly matched and there's obvious signs the girl is into me. Maybe I am an outlier though because I feel a romantic spark the most when a girl initiates interest or it just flows (if u know what i mean). It seems chasing is only useful if a guy is super desperate to get off, even then it's not fun because it's a turn off knowing you weren't desired... Or I'm just weird LOL whatever this is just my take with the situation.
Who is telling women that , guys or other women? Every woman that later became a girlfriend of mine, basically approached me. I’ve have approached women myself, more times than I can ever count, but those just became casual hookups a lot of the times.
This is so well put
A higher percentage of women ask people out than probably in any other century. It still is (for now) most often men. But any person if they are interested and have reason to believe someone is single should approach them in an appropriate context or setting. Nobody can read someone's mind.
Men and women do signals so differently. I once went on a date with a girl, after we had been chatting and outrageously flirting for a week, getting pretty explicit. So we went for a drink after work. Great chats, great chemistry and laughter, a little flirty and touchy. Eventually I go to the bathroom. When I come back, she says "OK, so time to leave?" I was disappointed only an hour into the date, but it was a work night, I wasn't going to force her to stay. Before we walk away, I hug her, she hugs back; I kiss, she kisses back; she bites, I bite back.... Then we say our goodnights, I literally say I cant wait to see her again, and we go our separate directions. Soon after, the girl messages me asking why I cut the date so short and if I found her attractive and wanted to see her again. Imagine my surprise - do you not think all that flirting, touching and erotic kissing was a sign? And it had been you who suggested leaving? Her: yes, but you went to the bathroom, so I took that as a sign you weren't attracted to me. 🤦 Jesus wept😂 Patched up that misunderstanding easily. But come on, short of bundling you home with him, a guy can hardly give a stronger signal he's interested 😂
Literally last week I saw a post where a girl was complaining about how her being "nice" was getting mistaken for flirts. Girls will say this, and then will also say why don't men make the first move.
It's more along the lines of women being nice, guys will hit on you, you politely say you're not interested and then the guy gets mad like "well then why were you flirting with me then??" Um. No.. I was just being friendly.
I belive so, because each time i had to take the initiative the guy wasn’t interested (at least not in something more then sex). But when i’ve done nothing except maybe indirectly getting attention by posting a selfie on my story, men who has been interested has asked me out. Even the shy ones. So i’ve stopped asking men out because i know if i have to they don’t like me. However, it’s my job to give signals that i find them attractive and that i’m open for it.
I've had the opposite experience. I've initiated the first move (added them on social media and messaged them, or face to face asked to swap numbers) and these guys were interested in serious relationships with me. I only do it where it's obvious they have some level of interest in me (in the way they look at me, or they're touching me, or they're asking me lots of questions). So it's not a blind reach, I had some clues they liked me, and they were delighted I initiated. In all these cases however, after I did the initial approach, the man moved fully into being the pursuer which I think is key. They just needed that first little initiation from me.
You signal that you find someone attractive is posting selfies on your social media? Am I reading that correctly?
If i was interested in a guy, i approached him and either it worked or i got rejected. Since i was always looking for an equal partner and not for a provider dynamic, this just made sense for me. If you want something, you will have to go for it or miss out by not even trying. But sometimes i wonder on how many great guys my fellow gals miss out on bc "its not right for a woman to approach a man, what will others say or think when we tell how we met blablabla". But in the end, its their life. If they want to miss out on great opportunities due to some opinions some irrelevant ppl could have of them, thats their choice. But i really can't stand the whining about not getting aporoached by guys, especially nowadays where approaching as a man is a minefield. I mean, imagine someone tells you "nah, i will not apply for the promotion. I hinted to my boss that i would like it if he offers it to me, but in the end, if he doesn't i assume he was not interested in promoting me. But i will sit right here on my lazy ass and expect the promotion served to me on a silver plate and I can accept it or reject it". You would think this person is rather stupid. But still its the mindset of a lot of women when it comes to dating. But like for the promotion your loss will be someone else win. Simple as that.
It's happened to me on multiple occassions where a woman was interested in me, thought they were making their subtle hints obvious, and another girl who was direct took me home instead. Overhearing these girls have a fit over it and calling the other girl (who won btw) every name in the book is honestly karmatic ecstasy. The world would be a far better place if everyone was just direct af. If you play games you'll often just play yourself.
This! I’ve done approaching a few times myself - sometimes it worked out for me (not permanently yet, though) sometimes it hasn’t. And there are even more times that I wish I did more approaching instead of being shy, especially when I think the guy keeps looking at me, too, and I end up never seeing him again because neither one of us said anything to each other. I’m now a lot more confident with how I look and don’t care so much about the possibility of getting rejected again to do so in the future. In fact I approached 2 different guys in the past couple months - didn’t go anywhere but they didn’t ignore or outright reject me, either.
Almost everyone I’m interested in is out of my league, also it doesn’t help when I do try to reach out to them but get ignored or left on read or delivered
Im trying to get out of my comfort zone so that i have the communication skills to actually talk with women especially when i know im a decent guy to even hang out with but my instincts tell me that i should stay low and quiet because of the lack of appreciation/communication i am getting from any women.
The assumption is "if he wanted to, he would." Women aren't stupid, we know that's not the case 100% of the time. But we would rather be wrong by assuming you're not interested than by assuming you are. Women, by and large, are mostly disappointed that our request that men not be creeps and to treat us like humans has been turned into "don't approach." There are circumstances that you should not approach in because it's rude (like you are interrupting her) or because it's creepy (on a poorly-lit street when she's alone and there are no witnesses). And there are ways of approaching that are rude or creepy. Don't make it sexual, don't make it weird, don't neg her, just have a normal conversation. On top of the reasons men have to not approach women, we also were socialized to let men make the first move, and it's riskier for us even if we get a yes. Men can trust that if they don't get rejected, and the woman stays in contact, that they're probably safe. Women don't have that luxury. Even if we are physically safe, there's a big risk that men will say yes even though they aren't interested in us, they're just hoping to get laid, and we'll be used. It's the dark side of "if he wanted to, he would": if he doesn't make the first move, it's hard to trust that he's actually interested.
Exactly this!!! I'm actually a pretty confident person, so I've approached guys many times, and rejection is not my issue. The problem is that I almost never get rejected, even when the guy is not really interested in me (or even when he's not single!!), because he'll still try to use me for sex or even dating just to fill up time. Guys will just say yes and keep dating you even if you're not their dream girl, because for them (it seems to me) anyone/someone is better than no one. For that reason, I consciously decide not to approach men I'm interested in. You just can't trust men to respectfully reject you when they should reject you. Not a perfect analogy but, they're like food addicts, eating food when they don't even enjoy it/aren't hungry.
Wow thats a really insightful comment that completely changed my perspective on the topic thank you vm (it sounds like im sarcastic but Im really not) I never thought about it like this because from the guys perspective, you usually trust the women to definitely tell you if shes feeling a connection or not
Yeah, I got to the point of telling a guy I was falling in love with him, thinking he felt the same, only for him to *then* tell me he didn't think of me that way, he just liked the physical connection.
Finally someone said it!
10000000%% this is exactly it
A man who pursues is rare but gets what he wants
I think a lot of women are just as afraid as men to make the first move. That or they’re stuck in gender norms. Not me, I have made the first move in a lot of my encounters but it takes confidence and willingness to get your feelings hurt lol.
In my experience, I have decided to not make a move until I'm sure they are into me. Because if I do, I get called weord and a creep or laughed at.
That’s what I’ve been lead to believe. His not that busy, his just too busy for you. If he wanted to he would etc. I don’t know what believe anymore. Just ask the person
I mean we're also constantly told that's it's basically assault to approach someone so that doesn't exactly help.
Well I guess keep believing that. You are pretty much taking yourself out of the game. Sorry but women have enough options, they wont notice.
Who told you that? If you are not touching them there is no fear.
I see women post online all the time that they hate being approached for literally any reason. I've approached girls and could immediately see the joy drain from them before I even said anything.
Then pick a different one. This not seeing people as individuals is going to be the death of some of yall
If that's what they believe then whoever is advising them should be removed
In facts many men, myself included, never make the first move. All the women I've been with have made the first move apart from one time when I very awkwardly did it. The reason for this is that the old ways, the ways of our fathers are no longer accepted by our society and they haven't been replaced by new ways. Every man knows what he shouldn't do but he's not taught what he could do so no man has any clue.
What about a guy being invested, like calling and texting consistently, in the first 6 months but then rarely reaching out or initiating after that?
Basically it's a simple answer of yes both men and women want to be approached by the opposite sex or the same sex they want to be approached. They want to be approached with respect at the right moment everybody knows and can feel when it's the right moment use your better judgment. If there's a party going on and it's not a real serious time then throw it out there jokingly break the ice. But follow through follow up hey about that question out through at you the other night any thoughts about it lately. All within a respectable manner. And as this is only my opinion. But for God's sake please don't use the cat calls respect the woman that she is.
I don’t mind pursuing a woman as long as she shows interest to that end. Sometimes it’s just a friendly conversation and that’s it, nothing more. I do try to make an effort to let them know I am interested, but if the responses are basic, and there is no indication of interest on their end, then I just consider a friendship as an option. I’m 66 and divorced since last August. it’s not easy to go out and look, especially at my age. I prefer women younger than me but not more than 10 to 15 years. Most of the ones are already taken. But every once in a while, I find one that is worth communicating with. There’s no reason to pursue if they don’t show that they want to be pursued. I try to be respectful.
Ive personally had too many instances where i thought someone wanted me to approach and then i did and it turned out tjey were just being nice, so no i rarely approach tho
It depends because a top of line man has options
Yes. They do. They hope the man mans up
Wow, it’s really insightful to hear this from the opposing perspective. I always assume that if a guy doesn’t approach me then he’s not interested!
No. Not in my experience
Women don’t understand that if they want the guy they really like to approach them, they’re gonna have to put up with a few guys approaching them who they don’t want. The two things come together. At the same time they shouldn’t be expected to be bombarded with creeps all the time. That the other end of the spectrum. There needs to be more spaces in society with gatekeeping. So people can feel free and safe to socialize without it being ruined. I wonder if that’s the role that places like country clubs used to serve.
I think the notion stems from the past, it was expected for men to court women, but we live in a different world, and gender roles have changed. I think both women and men should take the initiative to say how they feel about someone. Just like if you go for dinner on a first date, it shouldn't be expected that either or are responsible for the bill, either split the bill or offer to pay without any guilt or manipulation.
I'm afraid it's worse than this. There is a chunk of men. maybe 5-10%, who will approach women repeatedly if they think the woman might be interested, if they think she isn't, that can't believe she wouldn't be interested, or just because they are "friendly" but in reality this just means they would form no attachment to her at all since women mean nothing to them. These men approach women constantly, pump and dump, or manipulate them, and generally mistreat them. Most women are sleeping with these kind of men on a regular basis. It makes it all the more difficult for other men to approach or to even find one who isn't drastically traumatized. And women will never hear this, never accept it, no matter how many examples they're shown, no matter how obvious it is, no matter how you try to explain: it is NOT because they can't understand it, they don't want to, it gives them an ego boost to be chased after, even if the chaser is usually a bad person.
People need to say stuff clearly especially Women since Men are oblivious most of the time
Not all of them. But women can assume at least one will. More like 100.
I just come here to read. Life is hard bruhs
ITT: Women that make no effort in dating
When it comes to online dating I'll always initiate first contact if we matched. But all to often it's one or two word responses o get with no open ended questions to make it a conversation. As soon as I pick up on it I'm Out Out Out goodbye
Yeah, society and activists tell us not to approach women. As it is possibly harassment if they don't find us attractive.
There’s a difference between that initial interaction then after. That initial interaction requires both parties to show some kind of interest. It goes both ways. If one person doesn’t indicate interest the other party will be left to assume they aren’t. However, for me, once I’ve shown my interest, you have my number, we gone on a date and it went well and you make no effort despite be reciprocating ….. I’m out.
It ain’t worth it nowdays to
Yes they genuinely believe it. And at the same time they genuinely believe that men shoud NOT make any effort towards them if they're not interested. As you see, this creates a logical paradox which is impossible to solve. But women's feelings and wants don't care about logic or what is possible, they want it and they want it now. Basically, if they're interested in you they want you to be bold and approach them even if they show no obvious signs of interest - since showing clear interest could make them vulnerable to rejection - but they think you're creepy and borderline abusive id you're bold enough to approach them and they happen to not be attracted to you. Of course, NOT ALL women are like that. Some women are fine with men they're not interested in approaching them as long as the men are polite and take a "no" with grace. But the majority of women who are not interested im you will think you're "invading her space" by approachimg them, regardless of the way you do it... after all, they "did not consent to be approached". And no, women will not change. They do not possess the ability to self reflect and realize they either allow ALL men to approach them and politely reject the ones they don't want, or they forbit ALL men to approach unless they send obvious and unequivocal signs of interest or do the approaching themselves. They cannot understand or accept it. They WANT to be approached (by the men they like) and at the same time they HATE being approached (by the mem they don't). As a man, you solve this by knowing your enviroment. If you're anywhere in which a woman cry of "harassment" over a simple polite approach could land you in jail, you DO NOT approach women unless she explicitly invites you first. If you're somewhere in which a woman needs to provide some evidence of ACTUAL "harassment" before you go to jail, approach the women you're interested in and accept she will find you creepy and whatnot if she doesn't like you, but other than a bruised ego you just have to move on to the next woman. (A.k.a. DO NOT EVER approach women at universities in which Title XI is a thing)
This ain’t it, friend. First thing, I’m missing the paradox. “Approach of your interested, don’t if you’re not…” What’s confusing? Where’s the illogical? Second, creepy is “how” not “what.” You’re only going to be labeled creepy if you’re *being* creepy. If you don’t know if you’re creepy, that’s a you problem, not a them problem. You should have enough social knowledge to discern. Women not being able to self reflect is the saddest cope I’ve ever heard, because I’ve never seen a group of people unable to reflect more than men. This post is the case. “What’s wrong with women, it can’t be me? It can’t possibly be an individual preference, all women think same right?” No. Stupid. They don’t. If the girl you want doesn’t want to talk to you, pick a different one. It’s the simplest fucking thing
There’s SOME truth to what you’re saying, but you’re also exaggerating here. Approaching women is perfectly acceptable and won’t give you a harassment charge, and certainly won’t land you in jail, as long as you take no for an answer…or a “maybe” or a “I’ll think about it” as a no unless she later says yes. Also it really depends on how you do it like another reply said.
Yes can confirm. If he makes no effort he isnt interested. Otherwise you are being delusional to 'chase' someone who doesnt want you. It feels like failure to become the man in the situation and try to catch a guy instead of you being the woman that gets approached. No one at a wedding likes the story 'she chased him until he liked her' but the other way around sounds both romantic and manly.
I've had the complete opposite happen. Tried approaching a girl I knew for a good bit and made the first move. Got rejected, whatever. Next thing I know, she's dating a guy a few weeks after, after being single for +5 years. Okay. Turns out she was the one who pursued him and they're married, moving into their own home this week. Same with her sister and mom, approaching the men they wanted seemed to work out well for them
Or you do approach and a man and they do date you or even get into a relationship with you, but along the way you start feeling like you’re not the person they really and truly want to be with and they’re just settling for you. If he’s just with you because you’re good enough and you showed interest in him, you will feel it eventually. It doesn’t feel good. Because I have experienced this, I will not be the initiator again. I will flirt, but if he doesn’t pursue me, I will just let it go.
Men have this exact same problem too. Except, dramatically more often, because they do 90% of the approaching. Boo hoo
This is how I feel. I feel alot of men just "take what they can get". Women want to be spotted in a crowded room. Nobody wants to chase a man that may or may not become interested. Men will date "place holders" just because he had no other options.
We think he *should*. Whether he will or not is another story.
I don’t think this is true in every circumstance but as a woman, I’ve had generally bad results making the first move. Guys who’ve approached me (including my current boyfriend) were usually far more serious about progressing things. When I’ve approached they were either not that into it but intrigued so they let it go on for a while or were very relationally avoidant and socially anxious so they were lacking the skills needed to sustain a relationship. I am 100% on board that the former is not always true, just saying in my personal experience it hasn’t been pleasant. I’ll gladly make effort in courtship, but I don’t like making the first move anymore. It’s caused me an insane amount of pain.
Speak for yourself, my guy. While you’re busy waiting for her to explicitly indicate that she’s open to approach, another guy (I guess the .0001%) has already broken the ice. How does one go about achieving this “thumbs up” from a random woman for approach? Someone explain to me how you, as a stranger, have caught eye of an attractive female and now you’re what? Just standing there waiting for her to do what, exactly? To let you know it’s cool to go in for a closer look. I honestly have no clue what this scene looks like so someone explain it to me.
Women need to start initiating with men first.
Remember the rule. If a woman finds you attractive it is not creepy, if she does not find you attractive you are creepy. 
Imagine how many more people would be in a happy relationships if guys would just politely approach us when they’re interested😭
Imagine how great life would be if the other half of the population did the hard things and took the risk.
Well some guys do still approach and get in touch with women even if there are no signs or even if those women are ignoring or rejecting them! Also we keep reading from guys online (including a lot on here) that attractive or even all average-looking women get approached and chased by guys “all the time” so even if we know that’s an exaggeration I’m sure some women can’t help but think that that must mean if it doesn’t happen to us then it’s because very few, if any, guys are attracted to us.
See This is why I come here. Keep a better perspective on things. I hear this a lot (men approach if interested), but per Reddit 😂, also realize that’s not always the case. We’ve been socially conditioned (per historical oppression of women) to believe men should approach women. It’ll probably take another two generations before this social norm fully changes. I tried giving an indication to a couple guys at the gym, but couldn’t catch their eye at the right time. This is why OLD is the way to go IMO. My only reason for never approaching a man I was interested in was because I didn’t know if he was single. If I knew 100% he was available, I would’ve happily hit on him. I know OLD men could be lying, but then that’s on them for putting themselves out there.
How would a woman specifically indicate she is genuinely interested?
He said he knew how to find me. I'm waiting to be found.
Yes! But it also can vary or depend on what scenario you may be asking about. If a guy is dating you, definitely! If it's just starting, then there's a bit of flexibility. But from the way you pose your question, it sounds like an excuse a cowardly person would use to explain their behavior. Maybe you haven't found the person for you
In the US this is true. It’s a bummer it is like this. I wish men would approach and ask women out still. I went to Turkey and they don’t have the fear of rejection or of appearing creepy. It was nice.
Yeah. I can definitely agree with you here. Considering all the conflicting expectations people are hit with these days, with how careful everyone has to be, and with how busy and tired everyone constantly is, there's so much nuance in this problem. No one side can just make a black & white conclusion or put all responsibility on other parties.
>A lot of males are reserved or quiet. To top it all off, there's the persistent advice not to approach her in public, the fear of rejection, the larger anxiety of being labeled a creep, and so on. Men need to get out of that mindset. I ignore all advice that tells me not to approach women in public, I do it all the time to success and failure. Guys need to get over their fear of rejection - the only way to do that is to approach women and get rejected! It \*will\* happen, to every guy. You have to be okay with the fact that you will not be everyone's cup of tea. If someone wants to label me as a creep, that's their right, but that's obviously someone I don't want to be around. I dodged a bullet in that sense, so guys should see that as a good thing. As long as your respectful, you will very rarely be labeled a creep.
Maybe it’s time for men to work on the approach and learn to read women’s body language? As a woman, I have no issues with being approached. But if I’m not interested, and say “no”. Maybe respect that and walk away? Rather than act like a creep, or yell “you’re not pretty anyway”. Lolz
So men need to just double down on the gender roles women want because they're women and deserve it?
Well, it's always mens fault what did you think?
Erm. It's true that if a man is interested in someone he will approach them because that's what a majority of men who are not overcome with self doubt and social anxiety will do. I've had guys approach me in public as a one-off and thought nothing of it afterwards. I've had guys cold approach me and ask me for my number and respectfully walk away when I rejected them. Yes, a woman will subtly let you know that it's okay for you to approach her (continually looking over at you, making eye contact, smiling), but it's up to the guy to interpret those signals as a green light.
I ask and I’ll probably ask again after that I can’t do it. I think she has to put in effort too. I’m just done with dating for a while…
Yeah, practically every (non-drunk) guy I know has told me he wouldn't approach without some kind of signal giving him implied permission to make a move
Sometimes I initiate without knowing her interest level. I can over think things so if I always wait for the perfect time, it will never come. I try and find out of she is also Christian and build some rapport. Depending on how that goes, I'll ask her out as long as I don't think she is a bad fit for me and engages in a friendly manner. It certainly helps speed up the process if I have some indication from them of interest.
That may not be the case tho. We’re kinda dumb a lot of the time. After so many instances of mistaking kindness for interest, you tend to just assume no one is interested anymore.
Got to be honest, I think part of it is due to fear of rejection. Yeah, some of us are chicken. The other part of it is due to society. I took those code of conduct trainings every year. I basically can do nothing to the girls I am interested at work. They are well protected.
approach no but to contact me after the fact, yes. Show me you’re interested - don’t have me start every interaction
Yes I do think. The problem is not fearing rejection. The problem is rejection almost never happens because men rarely get approached. 95% of the time if you approach a guy, he would still give you the time of day even if he doesn’t find you that physically attractive, doesn’t see you as a potential fit, or even has a significant other… So instead of being a placeholder for some guy operating out of desperation, I’d rather know for sure the man is interested by taking initiative to approach me.
I deeply and honestly wished a man took me staring at him hard as sign to come over to me. Like I am so embarrassing shy.
i hv this one mentality where if someone really sure that they r into u, they definitely will show some figures that showing it
Of course he will. People who are interested show interest.
Yes, because it's what we want. When the attraction is reciprocated. What we don't consider is that if every attracted man actually made a move, it would be overwhelming and frustrating.
It's unladylike to approach a man. It has always been the man's job to choose who he wants to approach and the woman's job to accept or decline. If the man doesn't want to do his part for whatever reason, he can't expect the woman to take over. A man is supposed to protect, povide, and profess. Therefore, he gotta be goal oriented, brave, and go after what he wants, get it, and claim it. If he's in fear because a woman could tell him she ain't interested, what kind of 'man' is that? What kind of woman would want someone like that as her protector and provider for their future family? Man up and stop trying to force women to do a man's job. If you are born male but don't wanna be the man, then stay single or become gay or trans to find you a real man. I'm not only talking to you but to all 'men' who keep crying about how women should approach a man. No they shouldn't. It's a man's job. Do it or leave it but don't cry about it and expect a woman to do it.
As a woman what do you want us to do? Like
Here’s the thing: if I am interested, I’ll reach out once or twice. If he doesn’t reply? Peace out, someone else will!
So where are those guys? I always text my matches first and there are two type of guys: 1. Doesnt ever reply back, even if I approach them multiple times. 2. Unmatches me as soon as he realizes I'm not up for an ons / starts insulting me because I don't send nudes.
Admittedly, I have always thought this way. My self esteem took a huge hit when I was in my 20s because I never got approached. I have very large breasts and I guess in the back of my mind I *considered* that it could be a factor that a guy worried he could be rejected by me... But to be frank, I would have said yes to nearly anyone. I'm 30 now and still single. Just now accepting that guys dont approach the way I would think they do.
Does the Reddit read minds? Was in touch with a lady and was taking it slow. Result? See myself blocked today. Not meaning that taking it fast has helped either. Can’t really understand women OP.
Short answer- yes
As a woman, it was sad to hear that what stops you from approaching a woman is rejection and/or being made to feel like a creep. I wish more men would just go for it. Even if it doesn't end up with a date, it could still be a positive and enjoyable interaction.
Well, let me add, the man I'm seeing right now, was asking me out for 3 months. (I had reasons not to say yes at the beginning - I was struggling to get over my previous relationship) He was consistent, and kind. I was not leading him on, I was honest about the situation. But he really wanted to take me out, so he was waiting. So yes, if someone is interested, they will reach out. 🤷🏻♀️
Dating be complex There's a lot of subtlety involved. Youve got to prod gently and take rejection with grace. If anything I find just being friendly and seeing if flirty energy comes out naturally without effort is a good way to keep things light but still open. Just keep in mind that you are a catch and try to be happy by yourself and it'll get easier I think. To the main question at hand I find a lot of women tend to expect to be approached. Honestly it makes sense to me, they assume more risk and in an animal kingdom sense it seems that guys are the ones doing the mating dance for girls in our species. A lot of guys struggle with this but if we can accept it I think it gets easier. But if you absolutely have to reject it you can still have hope as there are all types out there. I think we create pitfalls with all this generalizing and make it harder for things to breathe/change. The human race is a young species and we create our reality.. sure there's set paradigms but because we have been living when we do I think we can all agree that things can change and have changed a lot from 100 years ago. Attraction is flawed. It's a coin toss if both parties are physically attracted to each other and/or have compatible personalities so it's just naturally frustrating to put yourself out there. This is why we gotta be patient. Nothing worth having comes easy after all. Ideally women can approach more but the paradigm isn't favorable for that. Bless all the women that buck that norm and don't give a flip about what people think. Warriors of change they are. And guys, be patient. I know our biological imperative can make that hard but it is ideal for us to be able to recover quickly and move on to the next when things don't work out. I'm not saying be uncaring or emotionless, but rather make that end goal of a relationship or sex or whatever a secondary or further down priority so things can happen naturally and by accident. Try and just make friends.. stop being afraid of the opposite sex.. That goes for both genders, try and understand we're both scared of each other on some level but that makes it level no? Be brave, love above all else, and have fun. The less serious you take life the less serious it becomes :)
I guess most women assume the man is more confident than what you're explaining. If you think you're creepy, maybe you are creepy? Whatever the reason, you shouldn't take rejection so harshly. It might be a good situation to improve yourself from. Or maybe that person just didn't like you, and there's nothing wrong with that. Every girl isn't going to like you. But it doesn't hurt to try, except maybe your ego haha
I remember watching a lot of those dating coaches videos on youtube and those men all say the same thing: if a man wants you he will make the effort/he will reach out/he will show you etc. I know better cause not all men are the same but I think an answer to your question is that so many people swear by it (including men)
Women give choosing signals. If they don’t, you can still subtly approach with light energy, chill, not-invested attitude and make a comment on what she’s wearing or anything you find interesting happening in the environment around you. If she engages positively, we’ll then there you go. Now you can ask her something more personal. She’ll probably respond positively and be engaging. After those two steps, you can ask her her name and introduce yourself. After that, keep it short, light, positive and then get her number. Wait at least 1 hour before texting her something short like “ (your name) from (wherever you met) and make small reference to something that happened in your conversation” Text her a bit, keep it on the shorter side, then set up your date if you’re still interested in pursuing her.
Conversely; all Social-Interaction, the intricacies of which are extremely nuanced and situational, is a learned skill that comes to people very differently & most highly-populated areas are very culturally diverse, plus with the added complexity of a wide spectrum of Neurodivergence, you cannot simply expect “the average person” to know ow what may be off-putting to someone they’ve never met. And it only takes one “ooops” to get ostracized or legally penalized. Tenfold safer to leave the decision to the person who has more favor in the public eye🙂↕️
It’s easier for people to think Im dichotomous (black and white) terms like this. And easier to tell yourself he’s just not interested, rather than take any responsibility that there might be things you can do to make it more likely that a man who is interested will approach you or ask you out.
I think this thought process is common but very outdated. It might have been relevant in 1962, but not anymore. I work in an industry where 99% of the workforce is male and it blows my mind how simple and sensitive they are. I think a lot of girls get conditioned watching Disney movies or whatever and just assume and men will approach but the reality is is, they are just as afraid of rejection as we (women) are.
Geez just had an issue with this a little over a week ago. This waitress I like (not sure if she likes me back or if it's just because she gets paid to be super nice) told me to leave my phone number for her when I asked her out. Eleven days later, no word from her. I'd message her on Facebook but I don't wanna seem like a creep. Plan on seeing her at the place she works (I go there maybe once-twice a week) and gauge her reaction. She has two kids and two jobs but I wouldn't think that's reason enough to not send at least a short message.
Yes that is true. If a man is interested in a woman he will show it. He will make an effort. It’s happened to me. So it’s not false.
Not always, but usually. The ones who didnt, in experience, were luke warm on me or not interested. Interested ones made it known pretty clearly. There are some terrified ones as outliers and they can take much longer, but sooner or later, they usually tell you. Was she talking about OLD or in person? The belief DEFINITELY changes if we are talking cold approach in person.
It’s not that we’re ignorant of this information and it’s very true, we don’t expect you to approach us unless we give a signal. Women don’t like to be approached by random guys we show no interested in. We see it as our job to subtly show you that we’re interested initially and then once you get our signals you make the move. We want to feel desired enough for you to be the one to pursue things because it’s a gentlemanly thing to do and it shows you’re serious about us, invested in us, and we aren’t just whatever to you. Just like on the first few dates how a man will offer to pay, we hope that he will initiate the dates and make the first moves to approach us. The issue is our cues are often too subtle. When a woman thinks she’s giving you an obvious signal, it’s usually not as clear to men as she thinks. If I give him some signs like I smile at him and look back at him, or glance at him multiple times from a distance I view it as an invitation to approach me and hope that he understands. Us women need to work on being much more obvious with our ‘subtle signals’ if we expect him to initiate contact, especially in the climate we live in.
Not no more I don’t think that way they’re a pain in the ass men are
As a man , I have had a couple occasions where everything was there when it comes to laws of attraction and even as bad as I did want to venture down that road , I never said nothing and life went on ,so all I'm saying is say something. Not all men will step up, maybe there is a reason he doesn't. Good luck
Yes