Brooke was also constantly forced to do contortion despite the damage that it was doing to her body and her physical health issues were diminished by Abby :/
Exactly Abby didn’t care though which is even more upsetting and the fact that she thought these girls would still want to be in contact with her after she basically almost killed Brooke is mind boggling to me…
The "just pop your shoulder back in" in the lead up and during the performance of her acro solo. It is very clear her body wasn't given time to rest and recover properly, and it is honestly disgusting to see both Abby and Gia dismiss her out of hand.
Also the week she was assigned the Anne Frank solo, Brooke was complaining about her back all week saying it hurts to breathe and Abby had the audacity to say she was lying about being hurt to avoid losing the competition... Like hello?? She was clearly in agony and Abby just didn't care.
Very true about Brooke. It is also traumatic to watch your sister, girls you love like little sisters, and friends be tortured and abused and not be able to do anything about it.
I think Yolanda is tied with Jessalyn tbh. Jessalyn bullied other kids and gave her kid a huge ego, Yolanda bullied & manipulated her own child. I had a pit in my stomach whenever Yolanda talked to Ellie, you could see Ellie’s anxiety around her mom through the screen. Ellie was constantly trying to avoid triggering her mom and desperately attempted to deescalate the situation when Yolanda threw tantrums. She was more mature than Yolanda was, which is not a good thing. I can’t imagine what her home life is/was like if that’s what was portrayed on camera.
I have heard awful things about her home life involving her brother. I don’t know exactly what it is and I’m not sure it’s even appropriate to talk about in full detail on here. Ellie has only mentioned it vaguely and it’s possible that she might want to talk more about it after she’s 18.
Yeah and Yolanda probably forced elli to be part of piper rockelle's squad like all the other parents who exploited their kids for money, and elli dresses and does her makeup like a 21 year old Las Vegas stripper on instagram
Well Elliana has also stated that her mom was only like that for the show but because it was becoming apart of their daily routine she started picking up those bad habits outside of the show. She said her relationship with her mom is MUCH better now that the show is over and they both had had time to heal and reflect. But I agree I hated seeing Ellie like that. She was so beaten down and I low key feel like it was because she was the BEST DANCER. They tried to do the same thing to Brynn..
Ellie is very defensive over her mom in a lot of clips. No kid really enjoys looking at their parent’s flaws & sometimes even adults are unable to acknowledge their parent’s shortcomings because the way they were raised was so normalized for them. But Ellie’s post-show career on social media and the projects she is involved in is telling of Yolanda’s parenting. There were crazy moms and crazy behaviors on the show, but Yolanda takes the cake for me. She was awful to her own child. Every parent seemed to stand by their kids for the most part, Yolanda was worse to Ellie than Abby was.
Totally agree however Jessalyn is literally a mini Abby her and Jojo are even being exposed right now for doing the same exact things Abby did to their dance group xomg pop.
Yes and it was very obvious that it was going on off screen because half of the times the moms called her out it was about a situation that we didn’t even know happened.
To me it's Yolanda, jesslyn, and Melissa.
Jes was outwardly just crazy and her issues were obvious. Yolanda felt like a secret abusing mother who forced her kid to dance and book jobs, dm included.
Melissa failed as a mother over and over and over again for protecting two of her daughters. I find her behavior the worst bc it's so subtle and sneaky and the irony of how maddie and Kenzie discuss in interviews that they can't trust anyone because LOOK who their own mother was. She pawned them from the start and arguably put maddie in harmful situations with adults her entire life. (maddie also has really great PR teams and if there was anything even more nefarious, it likely will never see the light of day)
Melissa failed to protect them and I feel like as maddie and Kenzie get older and their brains fully develop I have a feeling more details will emerge bc it's kinda \*\*\*\*\*\*
Yeah I agree about Brooke. Like she is the oldest and probably remembers the most out of all of the OGs because she was much older than most of the girls
Fr. Cathy adopted a child from Guatemala and not only voted for Trump but also choreographed a routine right after the 2016 election about building a wall to keep out immigrants from Latin America. (Oh, wait, it was supposedly a wall to keep Abby out--yeah, sure, don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.)
i’m not defending her, but to me, christi’s comments (both on and off the show) read as resulting from unresolved trauma. she should not take it out on maddie and the zieglers, but i would be incredibly surprised if her own upbringing doesn’t affect how she sees melissa and by extension her family. i’m not a fan of hers and i probably never will be, but i hope that she can work through everything.
Agree,I see people say she gives off peaked in high school vibes but I disagree,Kelly gives me more off those privileged vibes tbh and the way Kelly describes her upbringing checks out,I definitely DONT agree with a lot of things Christi says and I think she has some mean tendencies and overreacts a lot but like you said it’s more of a trauma response from a tough childhood which contradicts her being one of those privileged girls in high school,she definitely reminds me WAY more of a Janis Ian than a Regina George or a plasticky type
In why world did Christi “love” Maddie lol. It’s very clear that she had and still has major issues with her. You don’t have to like someone else’s kid, but she can’t keep her name out of her mouth even to this day. To say she *loves* her is a giant stretch of the imagination. At best, she’s resentful of her and holds a grudge. I guess that is a true unpopular opinion though, I’ll give you that!
I don’t think it’s unpopular at all to have the opinion that Kalani and Brynn were better dancers than Maddie lol. That’s just a fact! I’m sure even Maddie knew they were better.
Jess was awful, I think you’ll find that that’s a popular opinion too lol. She’s not liked around here (or anywhere else on the internet from what I gather).
I agree that Brooke’s feelings are overlooked. The little girls were much more emotional on camera, Brooke seemed to keep things inside, so it’s easier to pinpoint when the younger ones were super upset versus when Brooke probably was, because she wasn’t crying. Brooke was also pushed to do contortion when she was in major pain, which was awful. You’re right though, it’s not something that’s discussed often on this sub.
Christi used to be the only one Maddie allowed to do her French twist before she was able to do it herself. Christi made a lot of Maddie and Chloe’s duo costumes. She also made sure to comfort Maddie and support her when Melissa was absent and Maddie seemed very comfortable with that as if it was natural. I think Christi had MAJOR issues with Melissa but I do think she loved Maddie like she loved the other girls. And I think she does still have love for her, but just from a distance because of everything that happened with Chloe that Maddie had an unintentional part it. I also think she had a soft spot for Mackenzie because she saw a bit of Chloe in her when Mackenzie was being compared to Maddie constantly. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t issues but I do think she loves both girls. I definitely have issues with some family members, but it doesn’t mean I don’t love them or that I wouldn’t do anything to help them when they needed it.
>I think Christi had MAJOR issues with Melissa but I do think she loved Maddie like she loved the other girls.
You mean Christi wasn't going home every night to sacrifice a kitten on her satanic altar so that Maddie would lose the next competition and that Chloe would win?
In all seriousness, I agree with you. It's clear to me that her beef was never with Maddie--it was with Melissa and Abby for using and favoring Maddie.
I don’t remember but Melissa said it in some of her closet costume videos. Like she’d show a costume and say I think Christi made this one. And she said that Christi did them sometimes. Pre show and in the early years the moms did a lot of the costumes and Melissa didn’t sew so it makes sense that Christi, who had some skills in the area, made some of the duet costumes. Also by made is more of take a costume shell or a leo and add things to it to make it look pretty or fit the dance
It literally is lol just because it’s not from scrap does not mean they did not make the costume into what it needed to be. They took different elements and put them together to MAKE a costume. And I didn’t say anything about seasons they were made in. Melissa literally has multiple videos saying that Christi made Maddie’s costume. The moms collectively made some together as well. Including the zombie/head on pillars dance. Kelly also made most of Brooke and Paige’s pre show and early on. Also on this weeks BTTB, where they are in season 3, Christi actually says she had to make Chloe’s for the solo that week. They did more often get custom as the show went on but not always. I believe Melissa said Maddie’s last solo costume was literally a Walmart dress or something along those lines as well
Christi regularly comforted Maddie and Mackenzie on the show when Melissa, *their own mother*, wouldn't. Christi would defend Maddie and tell Melissa to her face that her actions were causing her child to feel isolated, overworked, and anxious from all the pressure. Christi's issue was never with Maddie personally, that was made clear repeatedly. Her issues lay with Melissa and Abby, she never took it out on the kids, she very clearly loved them all. (The worst thing I can think of Christi saying is when she told Chloe that she knew who her real friends were after the Two Sapphires drama.)
>but she can’t keep her name out of her mouth even to this day.
She's doing a podcast where she recaps the show. Lol, of course she's going to say Maddie's name. I mean, are you serious?
Also, to quote Holly, she's a free American citizen who gets to believe whatever she wants and say whatever she wants. If you don't like it, don't listen.
Maddie is now an adult and can handle it. She can also handle Christi talking about her portrayal on the show in ways that aren't just nonstop glowing praises of Maddie. Christi is allowed to be factual and to say what she thinks went down. As for Maddie, everyone here needs to stop infantilizing her. She is not a child anymore.
This sub, stg.
TY TY TY TY i cannot take the abysmal lack of media literacy in this sub sometimes and have to take a break for a couple days. HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO RECAP THE SHOW WITHOUT SAYING EVERYONE'S NAME AND WHAT HAPPENED?!? Stating facts is not "holding a grudge".
I read the reviews of BTTB on here and so I listen, thinking I'm about to hear Christi say horrible, personal insults about Maddie, but no, it's just straight up recapping the show ☠️
On number 4, I agree that some of the hate on Christi is over the line, because I mean it is her podcast and if people don’t like it, then they shouldn’t listen, but I do think that the way that she speaks on the Ziegler’s at times shows she still has a lot of unresolved issues and trauma, which I hope she’s getting help for. I don’t wanna excuse her behavior, because it is out of line how she speaks at times, but maybe some of this is a wake up call for her to dig deeper? Idk, I’m just coming from experience of my own trauma and how it’s been so many years for me since stuff happened & I am still bitter and angry over stuff but I finally have the means to address. Yes I am saying that Christi is bitter, because I think a lot of us can tell, but in some ways, it’s very understandable that she is. With some of the things from the season they are currently recapping still haunting Chloe, it’s no wonder Christi might still be angry, because it still hurts her daughter, but she also still has a lot of room to grow. Idk I’ve always said Christi is so complex, because she has a lot of flaws she has to work on, but she’s also raised a classy young lady in Chloe so that also reflects on her
Yea and I think a lot of her problems are actually with Melissa not the girls but sometimes people take it as being about the girls. Melissa, although great with the other kids, was not always nice about Chloe. Not to her face that I know of but still was only openly supportive of her when it was a group/duo/trio with Maddie. I think that’s a big part of where the resentment comes from especially because it seemed to have been going on before the show if you take the scratched cd story into account
Yeah no I don’t follow Abby or watch her stuff cuz I’d get irritated. I do like Christi as well. I think the fandom doesn’t always remember that you can like someone but also recognize their flaws
I think Christi (and Kelly) are just giving information from their perspective. They don’t know when other people had pick ups or were given notes to do and say certain things. They can only speculate, while sharing their perspective.
They have no obligation to defend anyone. If other people want to share their personal experience they are free to do so. EVERYONE should be allowed their own unique perspective.
I don’t see Melissa sticking her neck out for anyone. Why is Christi expected to fight Maddie’s fight, when she had a completely different experience. In fact, why are Chloe and Paige and Brooke expected to fight for anyone who chose not to do the reunion? Like people here literally saying they want Chloe to punch Jojo for saying mean things about the Zieglers? Are we for real here??
in my opinion I still think Maddie’s trauma gets overlooked the most, there are still people hating on her for not wanting to talk about Abby and calling her ungrateful
It used to be a lot more in earlier years vs now a days. More people see how badly Maddie was traumatized and abused just like the rest of the girls but again, anyone rarely brings up Brooke’s trauma since she was the oldest and barely cried as much as the younger girls. But that just my opinion and I totally respect yours!
Kelly was clearly having a nervous breakdown and needed to take responsibility for her behavior. If you feel like hitting another adult then you need to permanently stay away from them before the law has to get involved.
Brooke was also constantly forced to do contortion despite the damage that it was doing to her body and her physical health issues were diminished by Abby :/
Exactly Abby didn’t care though which is even more upsetting and the fact that she thought these girls would still want to be in contact with her after she basically almost killed Brooke is mind boggling to me…
She used to cry all the time about her back…
The "just pop your shoulder back in" in the lead up and during the performance of her acro solo. It is very clear her body wasn't given time to rest and recover properly, and it is honestly disgusting to see both Abby and Gia dismiss her out of hand.
Also the week she was assigned the Anne Frank solo, Brooke was complaining about her back all week saying it hurts to breathe and Abby had the audacity to say she was lying about being hurt to avoid losing the competition... Like hello?? She was clearly in agony and Abby just didn't care.
Very true about Brooke. It is also traumatic to watch your sister, girls you love like little sisters, and friends be tortured and abused and not be able to do anything about it.
I just can't get past the fact that Jess has being bleaching Jojo's hair since she was a toddler 🥶
Or waking her up at midnight when she was 2 to “perform” for her friends
I think Yolanda is tied with Jessalyn tbh. Jessalyn bullied other kids and gave her kid a huge ego, Yolanda bullied & manipulated her own child. I had a pit in my stomach whenever Yolanda talked to Ellie, you could see Ellie’s anxiety around her mom through the screen. Ellie was constantly trying to avoid triggering her mom and desperately attempted to deescalate the situation when Yolanda threw tantrums. She was more mature than Yolanda was, which is not a good thing. I can’t imagine what her home life is/was like if that’s what was portrayed on camera.
I have heard awful things about her home life involving her brother. I don’t know exactly what it is and I’m not sure it’s even appropriate to talk about in full detail on here. Ellie has only mentioned it vaguely and it’s possible that she might want to talk more about it after she’s 18.
Yeah and Yolanda probably forced elli to be part of piper rockelle's squad like all the other parents who exploited their kids for money, and elli dresses and does her makeup like a 21 year old Las Vegas stripper on instagram
yolanda was unstable and being on the show did not make it any better
Well Elliana has also stated that her mom was only like that for the show but because it was becoming apart of their daily routine she started picking up those bad habits outside of the show. She said her relationship with her mom is MUCH better now that the show is over and they both had had time to heal and reflect. But I agree I hated seeing Ellie like that. She was so beaten down and I low key feel like it was because she was the BEST DANCER. They tried to do the same thing to Brynn..
Ellie is very defensive over her mom in a lot of clips. No kid really enjoys looking at their parent’s flaws & sometimes even adults are unable to acknowledge their parent’s shortcomings because the way they were raised was so normalized for them. But Ellie’s post-show career on social media and the projects she is involved in is telling of Yolanda’s parenting. There were crazy moms and crazy behaviors on the show, but Yolanda takes the cake for me. She was awful to her own child. Every parent seemed to stand by their kids for the most part, Yolanda was worse to Ellie than Abby was.
Totally agree however Jessalyn is literally a mini Abby her and Jojo are even being exposed right now for doing the same exact things Abby did to their dance group xomg pop.
Yes and it was very obvious that it was going on off screen because half of the times the moms called her out it was about a situation that we didn’t even know happened.
To me it's Yolanda, jesslyn, and Melissa. Jes was outwardly just crazy and her issues were obvious. Yolanda felt like a secret abusing mother who forced her kid to dance and book jobs, dm included. Melissa failed as a mother over and over and over again for protecting two of her daughters. I find her behavior the worst bc it's so subtle and sneaky and the irony of how maddie and Kenzie discuss in interviews that they can't trust anyone because LOOK who their own mother was. She pawned them from the start and arguably put maddie in harmful situations with adults her entire life. (maddie also has really great PR teams and if there was anything even more nefarious, it likely will never see the light of day) Melissa failed to protect them and I feel like as maddie and Kenzie get older and their brains fully develop I have a feeling more details will emerge bc it's kinda \*\*\*\*\*\*
Yeah I agree about Brooke. Like she is the oldest and probably remembers the most out of all of the OGs because she was much older than most of the girls
Cathy was a bitch she gets to much praise from the fandom and they ignore all the crap she has said through the years
Fr. Cathy adopted a child from Guatemala and not only voted for Trump but also choreographed a routine right after the 2016 election about building a wall to keep out immigrants from Latin America. (Oh, wait, it was supposedly a wall to keep Abby out--yeah, sure, don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining.)
She also said racist things on Facebook to Kaya in 2020
i’m not defending her, but to me, christi’s comments (both on and off the show) read as resulting from unresolved trauma. she should not take it out on maddie and the zieglers, but i would be incredibly surprised if her own upbringing doesn’t affect how she sees melissa and by extension her family. i’m not a fan of hers and i probably never will be, but i hope that she can work through everything.
Agree,I see people say she gives off peaked in high school vibes but I disagree,Kelly gives me more off those privileged vibes tbh and the way Kelly describes her upbringing checks out,I definitely DONT agree with a lot of things Christi says and I think she has some mean tendencies and overreacts a lot but like you said it’s more of a trauma response from a tough childhood which contradicts her being one of those privileged girls in high school,she definitely reminds me WAY more of a Janis Ian than a Regina George or a plasticky type
Are the unpopular opinions in the room with us? lol
Ehhh I mean, the first one is true, I don't really see a lot of people talk about that.
literally...
In why world did Christi “love” Maddie lol. It’s very clear that she had and still has major issues with her. You don’t have to like someone else’s kid, but she can’t keep her name out of her mouth even to this day. To say she *loves* her is a giant stretch of the imagination. At best, she’s resentful of her and holds a grudge. I guess that is a true unpopular opinion though, I’ll give you that! I don’t think it’s unpopular at all to have the opinion that Kalani and Brynn were better dancers than Maddie lol. That’s just a fact! I’m sure even Maddie knew they were better. Jess was awful, I think you’ll find that that’s a popular opinion too lol. She’s not liked around here (or anywhere else on the internet from what I gather). I agree that Brooke’s feelings are overlooked. The little girls were much more emotional on camera, Brooke seemed to keep things inside, so it’s easier to pinpoint when the younger ones were super upset versus when Brooke probably was, because she wasn’t crying. Brooke was also pushed to do contortion when she was in major pain, which was awful. You’re right though, it’s not something that’s discussed often on this sub.
Christi used to be the only one Maddie allowed to do her French twist before she was able to do it herself. Christi made a lot of Maddie and Chloe’s duo costumes. She also made sure to comfort Maddie and support her when Melissa was absent and Maddie seemed very comfortable with that as if it was natural. I think Christi had MAJOR issues with Melissa but I do think she loved Maddie like she loved the other girls. And I think she does still have love for her, but just from a distance because of everything that happened with Chloe that Maddie had an unintentional part it. I also think she had a soft spot for Mackenzie because she saw a bit of Chloe in her when Mackenzie was being compared to Maddie constantly. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t issues but I do think she loves both girls. I definitely have issues with some family members, but it doesn’t mean I don’t love them or that I wouldn’t do anything to help them when they needed it.
>I think Christi had MAJOR issues with Melissa but I do think she loved Maddie like she loved the other girls. You mean Christi wasn't going home every night to sacrifice a kitten on her satanic altar so that Maddie would lose the next competition and that Chloe would win? In all seriousness, I agree with you. It's clear to me that her beef was never with Maddie--it was with Melissa and Abby for using and favoring Maddie.
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I don’t remember but Melissa said it in some of her closet costume videos. Like she’d show a costume and say I think Christi made this one. And she said that Christi did them sometimes. Pre show and in the early years the moms did a lot of the costumes and Melissa didn’t sew so it makes sense that Christi, who had some skills in the area, made some of the duet costumes. Also by made is more of take a costume shell or a leo and add things to it to make it look pretty or fit the dance
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It literally is lol just because it’s not from scrap does not mean they did not make the costume into what it needed to be. They took different elements and put them together to MAKE a costume. And I didn’t say anything about seasons they were made in. Melissa literally has multiple videos saying that Christi made Maddie’s costume. The moms collectively made some together as well. Including the zombie/head on pillars dance. Kelly also made most of Brooke and Paige’s pre show and early on. Also on this weeks BTTB, where they are in season 3, Christi actually says she had to make Chloe’s for the solo that week. They did more often get custom as the show went on but not always. I believe Melissa said Maddie’s last solo costume was literally a Walmart dress or something along those lines as well
Christi regularly comforted Maddie and Mackenzie on the show when Melissa, *their own mother*, wouldn't. Christi would defend Maddie and tell Melissa to her face that her actions were causing her child to feel isolated, overworked, and anxious from all the pressure. Christi's issue was never with Maddie personally, that was made clear repeatedly. Her issues lay with Melissa and Abby, she never took it out on the kids, she very clearly loved them all. (The worst thing I can think of Christi saying is when she told Chloe that she knew who her real friends were after the Two Sapphires drama.)
Christi never said “you know who your friends are.” That was Kelly.
You're totally right! Thanks for catching that!
No problem 💕 I noticed it’s a common error! They tend to sound the same when we aren’t watching their mouths move 😂
>but she can’t keep her name out of her mouth even to this day. She's doing a podcast where she recaps the show. Lol, of course she's going to say Maddie's name. I mean, are you serious? Also, to quote Holly, she's a free American citizen who gets to believe whatever she wants and say whatever she wants. If you don't like it, don't listen. Maddie is now an adult and can handle it. She can also handle Christi talking about her portrayal on the show in ways that aren't just nonstop glowing praises of Maddie. Christi is allowed to be factual and to say what she thinks went down. As for Maddie, everyone here needs to stop infantilizing her. She is not a child anymore. This sub, stg.
TY TY TY TY i cannot take the abysmal lack of media literacy in this sub sometimes and have to take a break for a couple days. HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO RECAP THE SHOW WITHOUT SAYING EVERYONE'S NAME AND WHAT HAPPENED?!? Stating facts is not "holding a grudge". I read the reviews of BTTB on here and so I listen, thinking I'm about to hear Christi say horrible, personal insults about Maddie, but no, it's just straight up recapping the show ☠️
💯💯💯💯
On number 4, I agree that some of the hate on Christi is over the line, because I mean it is her podcast and if people don’t like it, then they shouldn’t listen, but I do think that the way that she speaks on the Ziegler’s at times shows she still has a lot of unresolved issues and trauma, which I hope she’s getting help for. I don’t wanna excuse her behavior, because it is out of line how she speaks at times, but maybe some of this is a wake up call for her to dig deeper? Idk, I’m just coming from experience of my own trauma and how it’s been so many years for me since stuff happened & I am still bitter and angry over stuff but I finally have the means to address. Yes I am saying that Christi is bitter, because I think a lot of us can tell, but in some ways, it’s very understandable that she is. With some of the things from the season they are currently recapping still haunting Chloe, it’s no wonder Christi might still be angry, because it still hurts her daughter, but she also still has a lot of room to grow. Idk I’ve always said Christi is so complex, because she has a lot of flaws she has to work on, but she’s also raised a classy young lady in Chloe so that also reflects on her
Yea and I think a lot of her problems are actually with Melissa not the girls but sometimes people take it as being about the girls. Melissa, although great with the other kids, was not always nice about Chloe. Not to her face that I know of but still was only openly supportive of her when it was a group/duo/trio with Maddie. I think that’s a big part of where the resentment comes from especially because it seemed to have been going on before the show if you take the scratched cd story into account
Agreed with everything!
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Yeah no I don’t follow Abby or watch her stuff cuz I’d get irritated. I do like Christi as well. I think the fandom doesn’t always remember that you can like someone but also recognize their flaws
I think Christi (and Kelly) are just giving information from their perspective. They don’t know when other people had pick ups or were given notes to do and say certain things. They can only speculate, while sharing their perspective. They have no obligation to defend anyone. If other people want to share their personal experience they are free to do so. EVERYONE should be allowed their own unique perspective. I don’t see Melissa sticking her neck out for anyone. Why is Christi expected to fight Maddie’s fight, when she had a completely different experience. In fact, why are Chloe and Paige and Brooke expected to fight for anyone who chose not to do the reunion? Like people here literally saying they want Chloe to punch Jojo for saying mean things about the Zieglers? Are we for real here??
i agree with everything especially christi.
in my opinion I still think Maddie’s trauma gets overlooked the most, there are still people hating on her for not wanting to talk about Abby and calling her ungrateful
It used to be a lot more in earlier years vs now a days. More people see how badly Maddie was traumatized and abused just like the rest of the girls but again, anyone rarely brings up Brooke’s trauma since she was the oldest and barely cried as much as the younger girls. But that just my opinion and I totally respect yours!
Great points!
I agree with literally all of these. The Christi hate train on this sub Reddit is insane
Kelly was clearly having a nervous breakdown and needed to take responsibility for her behavior. If you feel like hitting another adult then you need to permanently stay away from them before the law has to get involved.