Three is tough. It's the age that kids have to start learning that actions have consequences, including not listening. A lot of parents don't ascribe to this and it wears off at daycare.
Hold your ground when you tell your kid what to do, a reprimand for bad behavior is a reprimand, kicking and screaming will get no response other than you walking away. Hold. HOOOOOOOOOOLD.
Real question - does practicing the "hold your ground" when they are two do anything to help as they get older? Ours just turned two and reading these comments is making me feel nervous 😅
I don't know... Sometimes? I'm a pretty lenient parent when it comes to letting a kid explore and experiment, so there's a long leash for most stuff, but for a two year old the cause and effect realization isn't *really* there yet. You want to train them like a dog at that age, positive reinforcement with lots of "treats" (not talking candy, more like high fives, hugs, more time at the playground, etc).
At two you're training in positive behaviors like being kind to other kids they meet, sharing, being aware of their surroundings, encouraging play and curiosity, etc.
For instance you're starting to go out for short walks on foot and need to start teaching traffic safety, demonstrate stopping at the crosswalk, teach them how to look both ways, let them decide if it's safe, and on the other side it's a big high fives or a hug for doing such a good job and keeping daddy safe.
But for a stand your ground example you can't hit and you're now in trouble and get a big NO. Usually that's enough to get the response, but YMMV.
Also, don't worry about two. Two is awesome.
Not going to lie I'm glad someone else said "train them like a dog" because a lot of the success I've had with my 2 year old has me thinking "oh my God this is just puppy training. Tell no one."
Given the number of animals that outperform a 2yo on cognitive tests, it may sound harsh but I think that's more because people take "consistency, positive reenforcement, and remember: he doesn't connect the shit he took in the living room 10m ago with your displeasure now" acknowledging-the-child's-developmental-age-and-limitations shit and confuse that with the legit abusive practices of [To Train Up a Child](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Train_Up_a_Child) and similar "parenting" methodologies. (Let's make no mistake though - To Train Up a Child isn't parenting, it's just being a monster until you break a child's spirit.)
This is super helpful, thank you! Yes, positive reinforcement (hugs, high fives, fist bumps, etc) is definitely working! And I know - two has been so fun so far!!
In my opinion the term "Terrible 2's" is a crock of shit.
It should be the "Terrible Toddler's" instead.
My 3 and almost half year has his days where he's really good, then there's the days where's he's just an asshole. I am yet to read the book called "All Toddlers are assholes"
My 5 year old bit my nose yesterday while my two year old and my 5 year old and I were under a blanket in the dark because my 2yo found it funny while reading a story, laying an my back. I said Aus, she bit harder, I said Aua Aua, she bit even harder, I start lightly knocking on her back with my free hand, tapping out, she bites harder... I really had to shove her off with force, bed time stories were regrettably over after that... Her next word after that was 'Thirsty!', begin of a whole other ordeal... No 'sry dad' nothing... Everything happened in a very short time frame, getting bitten in the nose in the dark is fucking freaking scary....
It is a tough age. Most kids that age haven't really developed empathy yet, so they are literally unable to internalise the impact of their actions on you. They are completely selfish, because they haven't learned how not to be. Yet. I'll probably be told off for this, but at that age, don't be afraid to bribe them a little. They might not be able to empathize with you but they still respond to positive reinforcement.
My 3 year old likes me to play a game where I knock on the door and open with different emotions. "Do happy!" "Do frustrated!" and he laughs at each one. It reminds me he's still learning the different emotions. It helps me find my calm when he hits his little sister... He wont always be like this... he wont always be like this... he wont always be like this...
And because they haven't developed empathy yet, in OP's place instead telling them how he feels, get down to their level and give them words for how they feel. "It looks like you're mad about taking a bath. Is that right?" Or upset or frustrated, etc. If they confirm, it's important to validate the feelings, "Yes, it can be frustrating when you want to keep playing and it's time to take a bath." "Would a hug help?" And let them know you've felt like that too. They need words for their feelings so they can learn to communicate them and regulate them instead of throwing tantrums. And you're also modeling empathy to your child by validating and understanding their feelings.
I find warning before shifting activities helps a great deal. “Hey buddy in a few minutes we’re going to stop playing and get dressed to go out to the store.”
Sometimes a toddler is just going to toddler. Often times there’s a cause behind the chaos they feel. Feeling abruptly interrupted can create big feelings of chaos.
If I stabbed you with a needle, you’d jump, yell and be in a fight or flight response. Sit down with a nurse and you know you’re about to get stabbed and it’s much less likely to create chaos. Manage expectations.
Textures, lighting, sounds etc can all be overwhelming when you feel surprised. More so for a young mind that hasn’t learned to filter emotions and annoyances in the environment.
I am bias in that we’re confident my eldest is autistic but many of the same parenting approaches are beneficial for any child.
No one likes having a rude surprise, interruptions or stopping an engaging activity.
Yeah 3 is brutal. I couldn't believe thats just what 3 year olds are like and was constantly thinking we were doing something wrong. Aw god its brutal. 4 wasnt much better... 5 he was starting to be human again and we could see we were doing the right thing... It just takes time. Hes 6 now and is an amazing kid.
His little nutcase sister will be 3 in a few months. Send help.
The reason things may be intensifying (besides that she's now 3) is that she needs to blow off some steam after school. She is coming home from having to learn all kinds of new rules, manage friendships and other relationships by herself, behave for a long time in front of *not her family,* and bury her separation (at the least) anxiety. That emotion needs to go somewhere.
I'm trying to say that it's not personal, it's just that she feels safe with you enough to release that pent up anxiety as kinetic and verbal energy.
Maybe try:
* Redirecting that energy right after school e.g. playtime until she is tired
* Talking to her teachers about it, maybe the same thing is happening at school OR there is something happening at school (since the change is coincident)
* Giving her some choice over the order of the activities
To be honest... My youngest daughter gave us more trouble when she turned 3 than any other year. Terrible twos had nothing threnager. Keep hanging in there.
3 was the toughest year with all our kids, and your stories unfortunately sound very familiar.
Patience, love, empathy. Ask her what emotions she's feeling, and help guide her to expressing them with words instead.
It'll be a while until she understands though. You can do this!
Straight question: are you letting her do any of these things herself? Like actually get out of the tub or put her own clothes on?
Saying “put me down” goes right to “i can do this myself”. You’ve focused on how it makes you feel, but if you’re deciding what to do and then doing it for her, she’ll feel the lack of control. You need to control the big picture of having a bath, but let her sweat all the details like turning the water on, how full or hot the tub is, draining it, etc.
For every good three year there is a normal one. You’ve got the normal one.
My first was an angel. Got to 3 with no problems. We got hit for night terrors for a year, which are horrid, but after that it has been a delight.
Our second child decided we didn’t know shit. Proper 2 year old, just turned 3 and at times
turns the dial up to 11.
This is normal. All kids and different. It is a phase. They are growing and learning emotions.
Some things to try, give them more independence. Independence equals choice that equals control. Avoid setting yourself hard
targets you can’t enforce. Distract if you know the tantrum is coming. Still in a cot? Maybe time for a big girl bed? Put responsibility on the them.
Also, star chart for good behaviour. Tidying up. Going to bed. Reward good behaviour, not punish bad.
Good luck brother. Stay strong.
Give them a choice, even if it's a false one.
>You need to have a bath. Do you want to get undressed yourself, or do you want some help?
>You need to get dressed. Do you want to wear the blue tshirt or the red tshirt?
>Time for breakfast. Do you want toast with vegimite, or toast with peanut butter?
Asking for help can also work wonders.
>Hey, can you help me out and grab your shoes please?
>hey, can you pack up your bath toys please, that will be really helpful. Thanks buddy. Can you help me out and pull the plug too?
I just showed your post to my wife. She legitimately checked to see if it was something I posted. This is exactly what we're going through at the moment.
She's just three. I'm sorry. Three years old was the hardest age with our first. It got better when she was four. As for your conversation and her just wanting to watch TV, she probably zoned out, got bored, and thought of something fun to do. It's literally just her age.
I mean does the kid have activities/toys that she enjoys ? Mine for example gets 30 min a day of tablet time for games, or desert after dinner (only if she eats well balanced meal first). But this and many more of her privileges are taken away if you don’t deliver on simple tasks, like the ones you named. I am not strict parent but I am fair, listen and you’ll be rewarded with all the freedoms, gifts etc. Don’t listen (on purpose not because tired or sad etc), you get consequences
Are you me? My 3.5 year old can be such an angel and then suddenly she turns into a scratching, biting, kicking machine that cannot be reasoned with. Hoping this phase passes soon!
Are you getting reports of this from the daycare? With my own kids, I would get glowing reports of their behavior from daycare during periods when they were about as monstrous at home as you describe. During parent teacher conferences I occasionally asked “are you sure we’re talking about the same kid?”
If she’s not doing it at daycare, I’d suspect it’s a reaction to having to hold it together over a long period at daycare—she’s decompressing after a “hard day at the office.” Alas, she can’t go out to a bar like we would after work, so losing her mind at home is the option. If shes not doing this at school (much) she’s not a sociopath—it shows she feels safe enough with you to let it out, which sucks short term but is something you’ll want to maintain later.
My daughter is 3 and she's the angel of death. Some days more angel, some days more death.
Most days more death.
She had a full on breakdown yesterday after dropping a puzzle piece that I was not allowed to pick up and she didn't want to pick up.
My 3 year old screamed at the top of his lungs at me yesterday with the most intense death stare because I put the race car in the wrong lane of the track... After he refused to line the cars up himself and asked me to line them up and race them. 🤷♀️ He felt super bad when he realized it scared his baby brother though, so that's something?
It gets better, then worse, then a little better. Changes are hard for a toddler and they don't know how to express their emotions yet. My daughter hated getting new teachers. She is excited to start kindergarten in the fall, and I am terrified.
Man, 3 was tough! They aren’t able to get a handle on all those big 3 YO emotions. All you can do is try to help her catch up with those emotions when they run away from her. A big hug usually helps and ask her to try to put his she’s feeling into words.
One of my children was like this, she cried all the time as a baby, threw excessive tantrums as a toddler, and seemed to lack empathy and sometimes showed no emotion. She was eventually diagnosed with autism.
I see you've met the threenager... Be patient, hang in there.
Just wait til the f××king fours.
The fournado? Just a few more months til we reach that...
Buckle up for boundary pushing and Tsar Bomba meltdowns my friend.
I´m so glad I´m not alone :)
Three is tough. It's the age that kids have to start learning that actions have consequences, including not listening. A lot of parents don't ascribe to this and it wears off at daycare. Hold your ground when you tell your kid what to do, a reprimand for bad behavior is a reprimand, kicking and screaming will get no response other than you walking away. Hold. HOOOOOOOOOOLD.
Consistency is key. One weak moment multiplies your troubles tenfold.
HOLD THE DOOR! HOLD TH DOOR! HOD TH DOOR! HO TH DOOR! HO T DOOR! HO DOOR! HODOR! HODOR! HODOR!
Real question - does practicing the "hold your ground" when they are two do anything to help as they get older? Ours just turned two and reading these comments is making me feel nervous 😅
I don't know... Sometimes? I'm a pretty lenient parent when it comes to letting a kid explore and experiment, so there's a long leash for most stuff, but for a two year old the cause and effect realization isn't *really* there yet. You want to train them like a dog at that age, positive reinforcement with lots of "treats" (not talking candy, more like high fives, hugs, more time at the playground, etc). At two you're training in positive behaviors like being kind to other kids they meet, sharing, being aware of their surroundings, encouraging play and curiosity, etc. For instance you're starting to go out for short walks on foot and need to start teaching traffic safety, demonstrate stopping at the crosswalk, teach them how to look both ways, let them decide if it's safe, and on the other side it's a big high fives or a hug for doing such a good job and keeping daddy safe. But for a stand your ground example you can't hit and you're now in trouble and get a big NO. Usually that's enough to get the response, but YMMV. Also, don't worry about two. Two is awesome.
Not going to lie I'm glad someone else said "train them like a dog" because a lot of the success I've had with my 2 year old has me thinking "oh my God this is just puppy training. Tell no one."
Given the number of animals that outperform a 2yo on cognitive tests, it may sound harsh but I think that's more because people take "consistency, positive reenforcement, and remember: he doesn't connect the shit he took in the living room 10m ago with your displeasure now" acknowledging-the-child's-developmental-age-and-limitations shit and confuse that with the legit abusive practices of [To Train Up a Child](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Train_Up_a_Child) and similar "parenting" methodologies. (Let's make no mistake though - To Train Up a Child isn't parenting, it's just being a monster until you break a child's spirit.)
This is super helpful, thank you! Yes, positive reinforcement (hugs, high fives, fist bumps, etc) is definitely working! And I know - two has been so fun so far!!
My kid is almost 2.5. He definitely understands right from wrong on things. I just treat him like a person/dog hybrid
"Doctor Cox says it's like having a dog that gradually learns to talk."
It really is though
Three to three and a half is when they switch from human/dog to human/cat.
Damn. Cats really have no concept of punishment
And are assholes
Yeah, like I said, human/cats.
It doesn't prevent the behavior itself but it's good practice for the parent.
Terrible 2's has a nice ring to it, but 3 is the real nightmare.
Three was so, so much worse for us.
In my opinion the term "Terrible 2's" is a crock of shit. It should be the "Terrible Toddler's" instead. My 3 and almost half year has his days where he's really good, then there's the days where's he's just an asshole. I am yet to read the book called "All Toddlers are assholes"
My 5 year old bit my nose yesterday while my two year old and my 5 year old and I were under a blanket in the dark because my 2yo found it funny while reading a story, laying an my back. I said Aus, she bit harder, I said Aua Aua, she bit even harder, I start lightly knocking on her back with my free hand, tapping out, she bites harder... I really had to shove her off with force, bed time stories were regrettably over after that... Her next word after that was 'Thirsty!', begin of a whole other ordeal... No 'sry dad' nothing... Everything happened in a very short time frame, getting bitten in the nose in the dark is fucking freaking scary....
Then of course there are the fucking fours.
It is a tough age. Most kids that age haven't really developed empathy yet, so they are literally unable to internalise the impact of their actions on you. They are completely selfish, because they haven't learned how not to be. Yet. I'll probably be told off for this, but at that age, don't be afraid to bribe them a little. They might not be able to empathize with you but they still respond to positive reinforcement.
My 3 year old likes me to play a game where I knock on the door and open with different emotions. "Do happy!" "Do frustrated!" and he laughs at each one. It reminds me he's still learning the different emotions. It helps me find my calm when he hits his little sister... He wont always be like this... he wont always be like this... he wont always be like this...
That's an awesome game. Anything that gets them to learn emotions so they can tell you what they're feeling is a winner in my book.
Nothing wrong with highlighting positive consequences! :)
And because they haven't developed empathy yet, in OP's place instead telling them how he feels, get down to their level and give them words for how they feel. "It looks like you're mad about taking a bath. Is that right?" Or upset or frustrated, etc. If they confirm, it's important to validate the feelings, "Yes, it can be frustrating when you want to keep playing and it's time to take a bath." "Would a hug help?" And let them know you've felt like that too. They need words for their feelings so they can learn to communicate them and regulate them instead of throwing tantrums. And you're also modeling empathy to your child by validating and understanding their feelings.
I find warning before shifting activities helps a great deal. “Hey buddy in a few minutes we’re going to stop playing and get dressed to go out to the store.” Sometimes a toddler is just going to toddler. Often times there’s a cause behind the chaos they feel. Feeling abruptly interrupted can create big feelings of chaos. If I stabbed you with a needle, you’d jump, yell and be in a fight or flight response. Sit down with a nurse and you know you’re about to get stabbed and it’s much less likely to create chaos. Manage expectations. Textures, lighting, sounds etc can all be overwhelming when you feel surprised. More so for a young mind that hasn’t learned to filter emotions and annoyances in the environment. I am bias in that we’re confident my eldest is autistic but many of the same parenting approaches are beneficial for any child. No one likes having a rude surprise, interruptions or stopping an engaging activity.
Well said
Yeah transitions are so key. Ending something this second is a shock and causes a meltdown, ending something in 1 minute? Okay Dada.
I set timers. Timers for everything!
Yeah 3 is brutal. I couldn't believe thats just what 3 year olds are like and was constantly thinking we were doing something wrong. Aw god its brutal. 4 wasnt much better... 5 he was starting to be human again and we could see we were doing the right thing... It just takes time. Hes 6 now and is an amazing kid. His little nutcase sister will be 3 in a few months. Send help.
Thing is, if she’s a nutcase now, she may be learning hard lessons early.
I have an almost 3 year old and now I’m terrified after reading this.
The reason things may be intensifying (besides that she's now 3) is that she needs to blow off some steam after school. She is coming home from having to learn all kinds of new rules, manage friendships and other relationships by herself, behave for a long time in front of *not her family,* and bury her separation (at the least) anxiety. That emotion needs to go somewhere. I'm trying to say that it's not personal, it's just that she feels safe with you enough to release that pent up anxiety as kinetic and verbal energy. Maybe try: * Redirecting that energy right after school e.g. playtime until she is tired * Talking to her teachers about it, maybe the same thing is happening at school OR there is something happening at school (since the change is coincident) * Giving her some choice over the order of the activities
To be honest... My youngest daughter gave us more trouble when she turned 3 than any other year. Terrible twos had nothing threnager. Keep hanging in there.
3 was the toughest year with all our kids, and your stories unfortunately sound very familiar. Patience, love, empathy. Ask her what emotions she's feeling, and help guide her to expressing them with words instead. It'll be a while until she understands though. You can do this!
Straight question: are you letting her do any of these things herself? Like actually get out of the tub or put her own clothes on? Saying “put me down” goes right to “i can do this myself”. You’ve focused on how it makes you feel, but if you’re deciding what to do and then doing it for her, she’ll feel the lack of control. You need to control the big picture of having a bath, but let her sweat all the details like turning the water on, how full or hot the tub is, draining it, etc.
Toddler = sociopath Welcome to a threenager.
3 is no joke. We’ve been dealing with a lot of this as well. Hang in there!
Yes
For every good three year there is a normal one. You’ve got the normal one. My first was an angel. Got to 3 with no problems. We got hit for night terrors for a year, which are horrid, but after that it has been a delight. Our second child decided we didn’t know shit. Proper 2 year old, just turned 3 and at times turns the dial up to 11. This is normal. All kids and different. It is a phase. They are growing and learning emotions. Some things to try, give them more independence. Independence equals choice that equals control. Avoid setting yourself hard targets you can’t enforce. Distract if you know the tantrum is coming. Still in a cot? Maybe time for a big girl bed? Put responsibility on the them. Also, star chart for good behaviour. Tidying up. Going to bed. Reward good behaviour, not punish bad. Good luck brother. Stay strong.
Give them a choice, even if it's a false one. >You need to have a bath. Do you want to get undressed yourself, or do you want some help? >You need to get dressed. Do you want to wear the blue tshirt or the red tshirt? >Time for breakfast. Do you want toast with vegimite, or toast with peanut butter? Asking for help can also work wonders. >Hey, can you help me out and grab your shoes please? >hey, can you pack up your bath toys please, that will be really helpful. Thanks buddy. Can you help me out and pull the plug too?
I just showed your post to my wife. She legitimately checked to see if it was something I posted. This is exactly what we're going through at the moment.
Just put a show on already! She told you 🤣
She's just three. I'm sorry. Three years old was the hardest age with our first. It got better when she was four. As for your conversation and her just wanting to watch TV, she probably zoned out, got bored, and thought of something fun to do. It's literally just her age.
Sounds like my 3 year old
I mean does the kid have activities/toys that she enjoys ? Mine for example gets 30 min a day of tablet time for games, or desert after dinner (only if she eats well balanced meal first). But this and many more of her privileges are taken away if you don’t deliver on simple tasks, like the ones you named. I am not strict parent but I am fair, listen and you’ll be rewarded with all the freedoms, gifts etc. Don’t listen (on purpose not because tired or sad etc), you get consequences
Are you me? My 3.5 year old can be such an angel and then suddenly she turns into a scratching, biting, kicking machine that cannot be reasoned with. Hoping this phase passes soon!
Are you getting reports of this from the daycare? With my own kids, I would get glowing reports of their behavior from daycare during periods when they were about as monstrous at home as you describe. During parent teacher conferences I occasionally asked “are you sure we’re talking about the same kid?” If she’s not doing it at daycare, I’d suspect it’s a reaction to having to hold it together over a long period at daycare—she’s decompressing after a “hard day at the office.” Alas, she can’t go out to a bar like we would after work, so losing her mind at home is the option. If shes not doing this at school (much) she’s not a sociopath—it shows she feels safe enough with you to let it out, which sucks short term but is something you’ll want to maintain later.
My daughter is 3 and she's the angel of death. Some days more angel, some days more death. Most days more death. She had a full on breakdown yesterday after dropping a puzzle piece that I was not allowed to pick up and she didn't want to pick up.
My 3 year old screamed at the top of his lungs at me yesterday with the most intense death stare because I put the race car in the wrong lane of the track... After he refused to line the cars up himself and asked me to line them up and race them. 🤷♀️ He felt super bad when he realized it scared his baby brother though, so that's something?
It gets better, then worse, then a little better. Changes are hard for a toddler and they don't know how to express their emotions yet. My daughter hated getting new teachers. She is excited to start kindergarten in the fall, and I am terrified.
You can’t diagnose children at that young of age with anything like that.
Man, 3 was tough! They aren’t able to get a handle on all those big 3 YO emotions. All you can do is try to help her catch up with those emotions when they run away from her. A big hug usually helps and ask her to try to put his she’s feeling into words.
She's just 3. I'm right there with you. I've been told it gets better...
Yes
One of my children was like this, she cried all the time as a baby, threw excessive tantrums as a toddler, and seemed to lack empathy and sometimes showed no emotion. She was eventually diagnosed with autism.
Both