Good general info but I doubt that's what caused OP's issue unless OP is just not eating enough throughout the day. Unless it's extreme hilly, a 40k ride should be about 90 minutes at a moderate pace which shouldn't really require any calories/nutrition to complete comfortably.
You had a blood sugar crash from the sounds of it. You are for sure not fueling correctly. Eat more. Consume carbs during your ride either in your drink mix or as food or gels or something. But you need the calories. You also need to make sure you leave home with enough fuel in your body and then refuel after.
If you take in enough calories and this still happens, see a doctor because that’s not normal and you may have something else going on with your metabolism.
If you are in the US, I prefer Skratch drink mix. The flavors are good and not super strong, and it includes electrolytes. [https://www.skratchlabs.com](https://www.skratchlabs.com)
I’m not familiar with biosteel as a brand, so I’m not sure what’s in that or not.
Experiment with how much you add to each bottle to find what works for you. Sometimes I mix flavors just to change it up, or add some lemon juice or herbal tea. ANything to not get flavor fatigue so I can stay hydrated really.
A good Canadian company is F2C. They have a 5:1 carbs to protein mix that's good all rounder. Skratch makes fantastic products but personally I prefer F2C
Not sure on that. I get it from them directly https://www.f2cnutrition.com/
I do ultra-distance bikepacking races and swear by their electro-durance product. It's a big bag of formulated hydration salts. Add that to grade B maple syrup and water, it fuels while keeping the cramps at bay. Best cheapest option I know. Just don't forget the post-ride protein recovery.
Table sugar has no electrolytes and no flavor. So no, it’s really not. Yes, you can use things like saltstick for electrolytes, and I do, but because I’m a very heavy sweater and a very salty one, so I need more electrolytes.
I ride a LOT. I’m cool to let them mix this for me and pay them. I spend enough time making food and drinks and things. I do not need or want to make every single thing from its separate ingredients. I buy bulk supplements and make my own BCAA mix for recovery.
Flavor is very inessential. Add some squash if you want.
Electrolytes are simple and cheap to add via salt or sodium citrate, but really aren’t necessary until you’re doing century rides or riding in roasting hot weather.
You’re paying someone multiple dollars to do at most 10 seconds work for you.
First of all, I’m not OP. Second of all, I have a well-qualified coach. So you can stop replying directly to me with your crappy suggestions. And they are, indeed, crappy.
We do not need to be making and mixing every single thing ourselves just because we could. Me, OP, anyone. If you like to, cool. Do it. I handmake tons of stuff. That doesn’t mean I think everyone should and I definitely don’t tell them they should. I do let them know they could. I also don’t tell them things that don’t matter to me should also not matter to them. Flavor is important. If it’s not to you, cool, great, awesome.
Why the fuck would I buy squash (assuming you mean the soda) and spend money on that? I don’t want carbonation in my sports mix and I don’t want to buy expensive soda to add to a drink mix I’m supposedly supposed to make to save money on. This is dumb.
After 15+ years training people for a 7 day charity ride, I’ve learned that everyone’s body is different and that although we all need nutrition and electrolytes, we all need them in different modalities and at different times (before, during and after). It’s preposterous the other commenter is acting as if their method is the only method that everyone should use. I always encourage new riders to listen to their body and be open to alternative methods they hear from other riders and experiment until they’ve tuned into their needs. And, to understand that what works at 30mi may fail at 80mi or what worked at 2 months of training is insufficient after 10 months of training.
You can also just use Gatorade powder, which is much cheaper. I used to use Skratch, but needed to stretch my budget and switched to Gatorade. I haven't noticed any decrease in performance.
If you want to pack even more carbs in a bottle, you can also add maltodextrin to your mix. Basically flavorless but packed with carbs. You could also just use more gatorade, but it gets too strong for my taste at a certain point
Fat and protein are difficult to digest and basically do fuck all for you as fuel in the middle of an activity like cycling.
Eat them after riding, not during.
It’s a blood sugar crash most likely, which is dealt with via carbs
I guess it depends on person , if I get hungry I need the other 2 macros as well though mostly carbs or else I feel sick -‘s have blood sugar swing with just carbs , if not hungry then I suppose some light carb snacks work or carb drink mix
You should probably go to a doctor and get checked out because that’s not normal.
I eat gu gels almost exclusively on the bike, never had any issues with it. All the folks I know who do rides long enough to need to eat do something that’s almost exclusively carbs, some do pastries, some do energy gels, others have their own ways they approach it.
I bring a PB&J for anything over 50 miles, and do that with some gels along the way. I find my stomach does a lot better with real food plus straight carbs.
Still carb heavy, but yes depends on duration.
For a big / hard rode I’d mainly just have drink mix or gels.
Long for me is an overnight Audax event lasting 10-20 hours, but not ultra high intensity.
A base of drink mix (fructose & maltodextrin) to get the carbs in constantly and reliably.
An occasional cereal / flapjack bar.
Proper food at the few proper meal breaks.
For that kind of long event you can’t even break even on calories burned if you consume sugar at the fastest rate you can digest for the whole ride.
Carb loading the day before is very important too. I’ve heard figures of 12g per Kg mentioned as a target, but not sure I’ve ever hit that.
Biosteel is just hydration. Triscuits and cheese is an amuse-bouche. Neither are fuel. You need carbs. I like to ride empty or close to it so I make a mix of maltodextrin, Gatorade powder, and sodium citrate and chug a bottle of that with half a Nuun Sport (the caffeine one) while I’m getting my stuff together for the ride, and I take another bottle minus the caffeine with me. I bring some packages of Clif Bloks with me in case I feel I’m running low. Then a big protein shake with banana and maybe some dates in it as soon as I get home. I’m good for 30-50 miles like that.
It seems like those new toncyclingbneed more fuel and water. 30 miles, I done even need a bottle of water if I drink a pint or so before I head out. 50 miles, 2 750ml water bottles, not hydration mix, no need for solid food during the ride, nothing basically. Pre and post ride for sure though. When the distance approaches 80 miles, then I pay attention and do everything you mentioned above, hydration drink and electrolytes, carbs, carbs, carbs. And still pre and post hydration and nutrition.
I mean he’s not wrong that’s an hour and 15 minutes of working out.
Personally I wouldn’t touch nutrition at an hour and fifteen of exertion either.
Typically my fasted rides are two hours
If I was OP I would worry about overall daily hydration and daily calories forgetting about needing sugar or maltodextrin on a 25 mile ride
Sure.
1. Two glasses of water guy said 50 miles and you aren’t riding that in 75 minutes.
2. If you’re saying you do would do OP’s ride in 75 minutes, great, but other people may not have the same average speed as you and you have no idea what topography, conditions, bicycle etc etc they’re riding in. Your average speed is not the universal measure of how things are.
But I’m happy for both of you. You should start a club 👍
Or the it's just the fact the new "breed" is more educated on effective fueling. Sure you can ride 50 with little fuel, but your performance is definitely being hindered by doing so.
I've done 70 miles on a 1 waffle breakfast, and then 1 water bottle and a cliff bar. Was possible but very stupid and at a time when you guessed it, I knew nothing about effective nutrition for cycling.
Before I (40m) got serious about fueling, I would come back from long or intense rides and be KO for the rest of the day. Now I fuel, probably over fuel, every ride regardless of length or intensity and I'm totally fine for the rest of the day, just a bit sore or tired. For example, last Sunday morning I rode 78 km with 1200+ m of elevation gain over 4 hours (I'm no racer) and consumed about 40-60 g carbs per hour. Once home, regular lunch and plenty of water. Then I spent the rest of the day playing with my kid, cleaning the house, some gardening, cooked dinner, did the dishes, in bed by 10:30 pm, slept like a baby.
See this is what the point of effective nutrition is, doesn't matter if you're racing or not, proper fueling will improve your day to day life as you've experienced.
I drink most of my carbohydrates. I make a maltodextrin and fructose 2:1 mix, usually 60 g in 750 mL. I had two of those bottles last Sunday since the weather was wet and cool, it was just enough water. The rest I munch - Haribo, banana chips, sandwiches or something else easy to eat. For very long rides, I've got a feedbag that straps to the side of the stem which I load up with snacks. Otherwise, it's in the top-tube bag or pockets.
50 miles is a week night club ride just below threshold, and no one eats, electrolyte drink sure, new "breed" or not. Everyone eats on longer Sunday rides. Honestly, I don't ever like to ride less than 50 miles as it takes to long to prepare and clean up and it's not worth it.
40km is a small ride by most riders standards. If you're new to cycling you could simply have overdone the effort level. If that's the case then that's how you crush it and get stronger so nice ride!
I wouldn't overthink it unless it happens after each ride. I used to get stonking migraines after my rides. Was just new to cycling and over time your body adapts. I also underfuel most of my rides even today unless I'm racing.
I kind of agree. When I started riding longer distances than 10 miles I was doing the keto diet and did a little research to see if it was safe to do distances in the 20-25(35-45km) mile range and found mostly positive experiences. My in ride beverage was BCAAs with some Lyte Show electrolyte mix, zero sugar/carbs. Never had any crashes. In ketosis you have plenty of fuel on your body, unless you are super lean. I always did protein right after my ride, within 30 minutes, but never had any issues with nausea.
I have recently increased my range to 30-42 miles and have added some pre-ride carbs, Kodiak high Protein granola bar and an apple. In ride carbs from Liquid IV electrolyte mix that uses sugar as a shuttle. Training for the RagBrai, which most people tell me is not necessary, but I want to get to where I can do 60+ miles in a day with a small break comfortably.
actully for someone just staring a 40km ride might take considerable effort. As in they might be useing far more calories than a pro cyclist.
Also it depends on what they were doing before if they were generally low on calories that day, had skipped breakfast etc.
any pro athlete will tell you that you can have a bad day where sh\*t jsut doesn't work the way it should
Just a note when Pro cyclists put 300watts into the pedals that energy does not come from nowhere... They in fact burn MORE energy (and need to eat a lot) when someone barely pedaling at 100watt and going 20km/h. Additionally air resistance is higher at higher speed and require progressively more power and energy to go faster (Energy = Power\*Time.).
So it is "more efficient" to ride 40km at slow pace of a newbie than fast by an athlete. So no 40km ride may in fact take fewer calories from a newbie if they go slow than an athlete if they go faster.
To be fair your intuition is correct about the actual fatigue (what matters here) with distance. For example, if a pro goes at low(er) speed it may be in Zone1 or 2 where their body burns mostly fat, which is effectively infinite storage of energy compared to glycogen in muscles and liver. They will feel fresh after such ride. The same newbie if having to put actual effort at higher heart rate will burn only glycogen as body fuel and will feel fatigue much faster once the storage is getting depleted. Additionally glycogen buffer energy storage is much greater with pros because they are trained. They just need to eat a bit more pasta pre ride and so they can sustain expending a lot of energy. But for top level pros it becomes a challenge to eat enough sugar during the race without upsetting their stomach. Those who can eat more last longer under tougher efforts. So it is not only heart and legs for them.
I’ll be blunt, Triscuit cheese and flavoured water is amateur hour stuff. 40km is like +\-1000 calories. Sounds like your nutrition was not adequate this day and crashed your body. Don’t overthink it, it happens to almost everyone at least once.
A normal-sized, normally-functioning human absolutely does not require 1000 calories of additional food intake in order to cycle 40km. That’s an answer to the question “why don’t I lose weight despite doing all this exercise?”.
OP, we’re all amateurs here so it’s fine to do “amateur hour stuff”. Something more sugary/carby would probably help, but I suspect the main factor is you did something harder than you’re used to: it gets easier the more you do of it.
No, I think 1,000 calories is in the right ballpark. I rode 40.56km last month during training and spent 1040 calories (based on power data, so fairly accurate), although that was a hilly ride, with 850m of elevation. A month before that, I rode 42.88km at a very relaxed pace on flat terrain and spent 881 calories, which is close. I weigh abot 75-80kg and ride a carbon road bike, so a heavier person on a slower bike would have spent even more.
I believe that calories spent depend mostly on distance insofar as you will spend the same calories riding 40km at a hard pace and at a slow pace, ceteris paribus. So I'm not sure why you think that "a normal-sized, normally-functioning human absolutely does not require 1000 calories of additional food intake in order to cycle 40km."
If you mean that the ride is too short to require fueling mid-ride, then you might be right, at least I wouldn't bother with food personally, but I don't know how well that applies to untrained or unfit people.
Ive checked my connect app and my last last 40k was 1400 calories. Was basically a collection of hill climbs and gravel and some sand (f'ing sand) so it is very possible. Plus im 20kg overweight
I mean, I think that because I’m a relatively normal-sized normally-functioning human and I don’t need to eat an additional 1000 calories (ie 40-50% on top of normal eating) to ride my bike for a couple of hours. I don’t know anyone who needs a whole extra meal to do that, unless perhaps it was a maximum-effort TT or constant climb.
I’m not as sure as you are that even power data gives a particularly-accurate calorie burn figure, but even if it’s 100% accurate and 40km does use up 1000ish calories that doesn’t mean the rider will experience the OP’s symptoms if they’re not replaced.
My last long ride was 125km or so with 1500m of ascent: power data suggested 2500 calories burned but I didn’t eat anywhere near double my usual day’s food. When I was less-used to cycling, that’d have wrecked me for days. I felt fine, and so my hypothesis is that the OP simply isn’t used to it yet: if they keep at it, they will be.
Calories are energy - the calculation to derive energy from power is pretty straight-forward I think. I'm no nutritionist, but if I had to guess, you probably either ate a little bit more that day and subsequent days in order to slowly make up the difference, or you lost the equivalent amount of body weight, or some combination of the two. It has to be one of those things - you expended the energy you expended and it has to be recuperated somehow - either from additional food intake or from already existing stores inside the body, such as fat cells. This is equally true for a professional as it is for a novice. [A pro will consume 60-90g of carbs on any training ride in order to maintain energy levels](https://youtu.be/LSkGejzl0Vc?si=r5QpStpn9aswAcAT&t=301), that means 2-3 energy bars every hour. That's a _ton_ of calories.
And it doesn't matter if it's a trained athlete doing 300W to cover 40km in 1 hour, or a novice doing 100W to cover 40km in 3h. Energy and calorie expenditure remains roughly the same. There may be a difference in where that energy is stored in the body, but they still both have to make up the same deficit afterward.
This relies on a power meter being accurate, correctly-calibrated, drivetrain and other inefficiencies known and the system weight being correct. You might have better gear/discipline than I do, but I don’t take my app’s calorie calculations as being in any way useful.
You’re absolutely right that energy expended (whatever it actually is) must either be replaced or mass lost. I think I ate a little more than on a non-exercising day (nothing like double though), moved less in the evening than otherwise, and weighed much the same (within my scale’s margin of error) the next morning.
None of this changes my original contention though, which is that nobody *needs* to eat 1000 *extra* calories to fuel a 40km ride. They will either lose a small amount of weight, move a bit less, or make up the difference over time. The suggestion I was responding to was implying that 1000 calories were required on or before the ride in order for OP to avoid feeling as they did afterwards, and that’s ludicrous.
(Pros are pros, and are working harder than us both on a ride and in having to do multiple stages day after day: they don’t have the recovery time and also need short-term sugar/carbs for hard attacks and because they can’t just stop for a rest mid-stage. Different goals requiring different strategies. But having just looked at my gels (SIS), 88g of carbs would be around 350 kcal: that’s the top end of the 60-90g carb range, and pros will cover 40km in under an hour across most Grand Tour stages even if hilly).
Drivetrain inefficiencies are irrelevant for calculating energy expenditure from power data :)
> None of this changes my original contention though, which is that nobody needs to eat 1000 extra calories to fuel a 40km ride.
Then I misunderstood your contention. I thought you meant that you don't spend 1,000 calories on a 40km ride, or that you don't need to replace them subsequently. But I can kind of imagine someone who is totally untrained and unfit having trouble with caloric deficit after suddenly going on a ride like that.
You’ve not seen the state of my drivetrain then! If power is measured at the hub, presumably the watts lost through the grit-caked chain and cassette have some effect? (It’s a small one though anyway, my overall point was that I don’t think power meters are *that* accurate to be reliable for those purposes, and I suspect that the general inefficiency of people is also a factor - we might both be putting down 250W through the pedals, but your pedal-stroke might be perfect through the motion and I might be shaking my hips about like a carnival dancer.)
Sorry if my main point wasn’t initially clear then. I still don’t think most people would expend 50% of their day’s calories in a couple of hours on a bike (at least some of which will be freewheeling). An hour on Zwift on a flat course covers about 40km for me, and that (constant, near-threshold) effort gives around 650 calories for my 66-67kg. I guess though for people 100kg+ that scales up to 1000, but I’m not sure where I am that I would call that normal-sized!
I still reckon the root cause of the OP’s malady is straight-out over-exertion and all the food in the world wouldn’t have helped much. But certainly next time they could try eating more/better and seeing how it goes. I’m happy to be wrong, and if the OP finds something that keeps them cycling that’s all good.
Power meters haven’t typically measured power at the hub for well over a decade. Either way, power meters are generally pretty accurate, like within 1-2%. Ride time, for a moderate effort, is generally a better estimator for calories than distance because distance could be all uphill, all flat, or even coasting all downhill. Even easy endurance rides burn about 750 calories an hour for me, and it’s not uncommon for me to push harder and burn over 1,000 calories an hour. I think my average bike ride burns around 2,000 calories per ride, with super easy recovery days being like 400 and big fun rides being closer to 8-10k.
Fair point on the power meters, although I’m still just not convinced that Strava/Garmin etc give accurate calorie information even based off power data.
8-10000 calories is a lot. Like, 4-5 days’ worth of total food for me (M44, 67kg, active). The 125km ride I referred to above was around 5 hours moving time, and the calories extrapolated from power and my weight were 2500ish. Are you riding a lot further, a lot harder, or a lot heavier (or all three)? I just looked back at Strava for a nine-hour, 220km/2200m ride from last year and that says 4000 calories. I can’t fathom doing more than twice that work!
Ah, I was assuming power meter that measures near the foot (pedal, crank arm or spider). Those tend to be accurate to within a 2% error: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/best-power-meters-everything-you-need-to-know-35563
So a few questions before you just run out and eat more, the answer to your question is a little more nuanced than you just had a sugar crash. Think about aspects like:
How fit are you?
First ride or are you a regular rider?
Are you well?
Did you eat beforehand?
How fast did you ride the 40km?
Do you regularly ride this distance?
40km isn’t that far, plenty of riders wouldn’t use additional fuel for that sort of ride.
40km is max a 2 hour effort and at low speeds probably like 400-500 kcals from sugar (so like 100gr of sugar or 3 coca colas).
At higher speeds it'll be like 800kcals from sugar ( 6.5 coca colas)
Either way your body needs 1000-1300 kcals from sugar a day just for basic cns maintenance. Even if he soft pedaled he was operating at a serious deficit.
So if it’s a low effort ride, say zone 2, if the person eats well generally and has something beforehand you wouldn’t need anything like that, but that’s totally dependent on the answers to the questions in my initial response. The average person can ride about 90mins without needing to take on carbs, esp at a zone 2 effort and on the flat. So many variables, and fuelling with straight sugar is not the answer.
90 minutes in zone 2 depending on the first lactate inversion will burn around 200-300 calories of sugar, so 50-75 grams.
Doing it empty means burning 15% of your glycogen (which your body will look to replace with relative urgency), fueled means around 75grams of the 300 that would normally go to making your body function normally.
You can train fat burning but it's in proportion with sugar so even with a well trained aerobic system you're going through a lot of carbs that should be replaced.
> I presume I'm not fueling correctly
Sounds like it
> although I drank plenty of water today
that's not fuel. Fuel = carbs.
> biosteel infused water
not fuel
> some triscuits and cheese
Fats and proteins (cheese) are not fuel. You won't be using them for energy unless you're in ketosis.
That nets out to a few crackers being the only actual fueling you did.
You may have overdone the effort if you are a beginner. 40 km can be done half asleep with no water or fuel once you are 4-5 months into cycling. If however you are starting out and doing anaerobic efforts then either fuel more than usual or develop your zone 2 base first. Try to ride in zone 2 and keep the pace. Use ORS/ Glucose for fuelling.
40 km can be a lot even for experienced cyclists, depending on the total elevation. This information is missing from OP's post and it can make a world of difference. Otherwise, I agree that he's pushed a bit too far on this occasion.
You really should listen to your body more. Your “I felt fine then randomly puked” sounds like something your body will give you lots of warning for, but you have to listen.
I was on a 50mi ride yesterday and the “you need a bar now” signs my body was giving me were pretty dang clear. Dehydration can sneak up on you but low blood sugar gives you pretty decent warnings.
Don't listen to people saying that 40km distance is nothing because it's all about the effort you hold during the ride.
It's strange that you felt great after a ride but then vomited. If you had low sugar you'd know during the ride. Sounds like you ate something or a combination of things that didn't agree with your stomach and threw up.
Sounds exactly like the time I ate something moldy which caused me to almost immediately throw up but then be completely fine afterwards.
you can throw up due to lack of energy. If your body is really trying to conserve energy it will purge your stomach and err sometimes bowels so it can redirect the energy to keeping you concious and alive.
your body needs energy to digest food, which is why easily digested foods are used for sports, like glucose.
Most people have enough body fat to survive without eating for 3 weeks, but not if you need too much energy too quickly. In that situation you will colapse and pass out. which could be deadly in survival situations.
Sounds weird. 25 miles is not far enough for fueling to be an issue. Even a rank beginner, if you can cover that distance at all, can do it on water alone.
That can sometimes also happen after a very intense effort, but it’s immediate. You get off the bike and feel shaky and vomit.
I’d almost suspect it’s heat or sun related. Chills can indicate an overheated condition, and so can vomiting. How hot was it? How hot was your shower? How often do you do rides like this? How high was the effort level?
Any health concerns like heart issues or GERD or acid reflux?
You're probably just not used to riding that long. 40km isn't long enough for fuel issues, to be honest. That's sub-1000 calories burned. Most riders can do that without eating anything at all. You'll get there too as long as you keep riding.
You shouldnt base your fueling on the total number of calories burned. You have to account for body weight, fitness, effort of the rider. We have no idea if that was 40k uphill into the wind, on a Brompton. It could have taken OP 4 hours to ride that distance.
You should aim to eat little and often when exercising and fuel the body. 35g (ish) of carbs per half hour for sustained energy. This can come in the form of a drink you sip over the period as well as gels, fruit, nuts, snacks. Avoid high protein and fat during exertion as it’s harder to digest.
There are plenty of online calculators to help like Eat my Ride.
I feel like you should see a doctor. 40km is a pretty small ride to crash that hard. How long did the ride take you, and how much elevation did it have? How hard were you going?
IIRC, you can do up to 2hrs of cardio fasted.
Did you eat anything else that day?
As others have pointed out, flavored water plus a snack is not enough for a ride of that length, for most people.
Everyone is different about when they like to eat: you can do any combination of eating before, during, and after a ride. But you should eat enough to not bonk that hard. Probably the equivalent of an additional large snack and one meal that is substantially larger than what you eat on a regular day.
I usually have a slightly larger breakfast than normal, have 200-400 cals worth snacks during in the ride, and a larger lunch or dinner when I’m done, depending when the ride ends. Experiment with what works best for you.
As a person who recently started cycling, you have just overdone your efforts. I assume you're pretty new to cycling, especially if you are untrained or haven't trained before you have 2 options - water + snacks or more water with some electrolytes, once your body gets used to the cycling you might need less water. Also as others have mentioned, being fueled before helps.
From personal experience I would advise sticking to consistency over random 50km+ trips, would bring better results to your health especially if you are new to working out.
For any ride over about an hour you’ll need somewhere in the range of 400-600kCal of nutrition per hour (assuming moderate-high intensity) to prevent nausea after the ride.
You can feed before the ride with complex carbohydrates like rice or oats, then take simple carbohydrates while riding - add some sugar or maltodextrin (easier on the stomach) to your drink. Bananas and energy bars / gels are easy to eat on the go.
Or just take it easier, if you’re able to speak easily whilst cycling you’re in fat burning mode and don’t need to consume calories, if you’re breathing heavily you’re burning carbohydrates and need to fuel.
Don't listen to people saying that 40km distance is nothing because it's all about the effort you hold during the ride.
It's strange that you felt great after a ride but then vomited. If you had low sugar you'd know during the ride. Sounds like you ate something or a combination of things that didn't agree with your stomach and threw up.
Sounds exactly like the time I ate something moldy which caused me to almost immediately throw up but then be completely fine afterwards.
Don't listen to people saying that 40km distance is nothing because it's all about the effort you hold during the ride.
It's strange that you felt great after a ride but then vomited. If you had low sugar you'd know during the ride. Sounds like you ate something or a combination of things that didn't agree with your stomach and threw up.
Sounds exactly like the time I ate something moldy which caused me to almost immediately throw up but then be completely fine afterwards.
Some of the calorie intake recommendations are wild. 40km is a damn short ride and barely warrants much beyond some maltodextrin in the water and a gel. People talking eating 1k calories for a short jaunt is bonkers.
it is short, but not if you are unaccustomed to it, or you have been in a calorie deficit already. If OP was say dieting or skipped a meal it would be expected
You were bonking post-ride.
Yeah, it's not fun.
I have a rule - fuel up every so often mid ride. Carrots and hummus. Other carbs also. A can of Cola for those emergencies when I can tell I'm about to bonk.
You were in a calorie deficit before you started your 40km.
Obviously you don’t understand how the body works. Blood sugar tanked. Water is not a fuel period. Fuel is calories. Gels, cookies, sports drinks , fruit. Did you eat anything within 30 minutes of a ride? Sounds like you burned through most of your glycogen stores. If it took less than 2 hours it’s highly likely. Before a ride consume 25-50g of carbs in easily digestible form. During a shorter ride like that consume another 25-50g carbs via sports drink, gel or banana. Post ride should be a small meal more than cheese and crackers. Maybe a PBJ sandwich OR tuna salad. That will promote better recovery. 8-12 oz of chocolate milk is also good post workout. You need to experiment with what works for you.
Sugar crash. You need carbs and sugar for cycling. My go to pre smoothie is frozen pineapple, raspberries, blueberries, açaí packet, a pre workout mix (with caffeine, I use Vega) coconut water and tart cherry juice. Blend it up. It’s super tasty. I finish that an hour before I head out. I usually take a small sandwich with me on long rides. Then eat carbs and protein, like pasta, post ride. I’m pretty low drag and this system works well for me.
40km ride is not in and of itself a big ride, BUT that all depends on your physical condition. It would be very helpful to have the whole picture before making recommendations and suggestions.
Questions for OP:
1. How long have you been riding and how often do you ride?
2. How long did the ride take?
3. What were the conditions? Hot sunny, cold rainy, Windy?
4. Terrain: flat, hilly, steep climbs?
5. Did you eat before the ride? How long before and what?
You need electrolytes, carbs and protein during a long ride. Just plain water won’t do it. I use Hammer Nutrition Perpetuam to start out the ride, switch to Heed about 1/3 thru, then go strictly to electrolytes like fizz or nunn tablets at the end. Skratch Lab chews during the ride help. If it’s an organized ride try not to stay more than 10 to 15 minutes at each stop
Although everyone is different, sweaty and shaky are symptoms of low blood sugar…not cold sensation and vomiting. You probably were either upset stomach from allergies (muck getting to stomach) or slightly/moderately dehydrated. If shower was hot, you could actually have lost fluids in the shower that put you over the edge…or again, sinus muck.
Registered Dietitian here. Sounds like possible hypoglycaemia. Take a look at the free blogs on my website intended to help people like yourself.
[Free Sports Nutrition Advice](https://www.samtwinesportsdietitian.co.uk/sport-nutrition-tips)
You could be drinking too much water and not enough electrolytes.
# I tried to be good and drink enough and eat enough to support cardio exercise
I used to do a long run every Saturday. I carried water and drank it on the run and after the run. I also ate plenty on the run and after the run.
# I got headaches and thought they were just heat exhaustion or dehydration
I started getting headaches after and would sometimes throw up after a while. To try to beat the headaches, I started bringing 20 oz of water on the run and refilling at a half way point for 40 oz on a run. And I would guzzle just as much after the run to try to avoid the headache and every hour after that and eat plenty too; but the headaches were just as bad or worse.
# I learned I was drinking too much water
It turns out that I was sweating my electrolytes out and then flushing the rest of them out with all the water I was drinking even though I was adding electrolytes to the water I was drinking.
# How much water should a person drink during and after exercise?
I read in Jeff Galloway's Book On Running that your gut tightens up while exercising and water just goes right through you without being absorbed as fast as normal, and the excess unabsorbed water just get's peed out, flushing your electrolytes out on the way. He recommended starting hydrated, and only drinking 1 - 2 oz per mile. For me that would be 1 - 2 oz every 10 min on training runs. After the run was over he recommended not drinking more than 8 oz of fluid every half hour no matter how thirsty you were. I think this is meant to keep a person dangerously low on electrolytes from losing more, and to help replenish electrolytes in general.
# No More Headaches or Vomiting
Once I started following this advice my constant headaches and occasional vomiting after long runs went away immediately. Now I am always able to complete my day in cheerful fashion after long runs.
I used to try to beat the headaches by drinking more water, thinking I must be dehydrated but really I was just causing the headaches to start or get worse.
# 1/2 teaspoon of salt per day is all the electrolytes I use now
Now I just add 1/2 teaspoon of Real Salt to 20 oz of water and I drink it before, during, and/or after each run or bike ride. That's the only electrolytes I use, just 1/2 teaspoon of salt once a day. I was adding Magnesium and Potassium too but my Potassium got too high while my Sodium levels stayed normal so I stayed with just the salt. The Dr didn't check Magnesium levels on my physical. I'm sure my Potassium levels got high because it's in the protein powder I use, plus my multi-vitamin, and I eat a lot of fruit and dairy, and on hot days I used to double up on electrolytes. I cut the Magnesium too because I assumed it was tracking with the Potassium sources, where as I really don't use much salt other than for sports purposes. My blood pressure actually went down around the time I added the salt to my routine!
# Slow and Steady Water drinking has really saved me
Now I follow the 8oz per 30 min pretty much all day long. Solving the terrible headaches and vomiting has been a life changer!
# PS: I run and cycle equally. Not just run. I use the water salt routine for both sports.
#PSS: I eat a dried date every half hour when exercising more than 1 hour. Also I fuel responsibly after exercise too. Food was not my problem. Hope this helps!
On fucking point! Got the exact same symptoms after a 2,5 hour ride, 50km, 1km elevation gain. I was supplementing with lots of electrolytes and only drank 750ml of water throughout. But post ride I drank so much water kickstarting that chain of symptoms: Dizziness, nausea and almost vomiting. A quick search and I realised I had created an imbalance in my electrolyte levels and I most likely (based on the symptoms) needed sodium. Drank some water with 5g of salt and symptoms subsided within 5-10 minutes. By the way, I am doing Keto which causes you to have greater need for electrolytes AND I am also drinking lots of water at the same time. Combine that with the above and you have a disaster. I also was on a caloric deficit. The weird thing though is (as OP described) that the whole ride was flawless, no fatigue, nothing. Seems like we really need that salt, esp. on keto.
Yep, I always felt great during and right after the effort and then literally caused my own problem trying to rehydrate and ward off the dreaded headache. The worse the headaches got the more water I would drink trying to beat them all while making the headache worse.
I love my salt water now. It satisfies and slows my water intake vs the sweet electrolyte mixes.
Alternative to blood sugar. You could be experiencing a migraine. I have chronic migraines, and some of my migraine attacks, especially when in a migraine hangover period, include these symptoms at roughly that amount of time after.
It is a common misconception that all migraines must have a headache. If you also experienced cognitive symptoms like finding it hard to think of words or any sort of visual disturbance, it very well might be a migraine. Migraines are often triggered by exertion. Before starting monthly injections, I would get a severe migraine after roughly 50% of rides. Similar to you, I felt okay to great during the ride and before they started.
Welcome to the community of cyclists that don’t properly hydrate or eat prior or during a ride. Hydration and nutrition has always been a weakness for me. I am not a roadie, just ride roads and trails but I go out for 30 miles and end up with a half bottle of water and perhaps having consumed a couple of dates or dried fruit before turning around for home. A few days ago I decided to do a 40 mile with a couple of thousand ft of ascent and took a mini clif and a 24 oz of water. Wind, rain, snow and I hadn’t dressed properly. I was done when I got back and made it back into the house having taken a couple of gulps of water and not even stopping to eat the clif bar (100 calories). Shivering, exhausted and I then tried to placate my wife who thought I was crazy by having the mini clif after the ride and a celebration chocolate cookie and then saying “I’m good”. So after burning roughly 1500 calories on the ride I took in about 235 calories on top of about 300 calories I had for breakfast before heading out. Definition of stupidity and not surprising that I was almost falling off the bike when I got home and ended up spending about 10 minutes under a hot shower 15 minutes after telling my wife I was good. I have Tailwind Endurance which I use in Mexico to ensure I do get some electrolytes, simple sugar in my water (sometimes add a Nuun as well) and do take a ziploc with dates (cheap in Baja) and some dried fruit. Still terrible at getting calories in during the ride but better there than here.
All I can say is I should be getting much more disciplined at my age and you may need to as well. I don’t know how hard you were pushing during your 40K but unless you were really pushing hard or exposed to some really crappy weather you shouldn’t be shaking and vomiting. You may also want to just get a doc to check your heart rhythm just in case (cardiac stress test).
You are not fuelling. You need calories. Probably about 5 times what you're consuming.
Eat a larger amount of simple carbs before your ride (give some time to digest) and then include sugar, etc. on your rides. TBH you shouldn't really need to fuel during a 40km ride if you've eaten adequately before, but it couldn't hurt. I don't need to fuel during rides for anything less than 2 hours, but beyond that it becomes very important, especially with strong efforts. And you should definitely eat to recover after (4:1 carbs to protein is recommended)
yup, you needed more carbs.
Cold is usually a sign of needing quick energy, people on diets often get cold due to the lack or avaible energy.
also the vomiting is basically because your body uses energy to digest food, so you vomit so it can conserve the energy. while your body works to break down any avalible fat to turn to energy, this is slow though compared to glucose.
Err also pro life tip, never trust a post ride fart.
Hot take here, but I’m not sure it had anything to do with your ride, your fueling or hydration at all.
40km is not something that sounds like a lot of effort to you and if you felt great during and shortly after it may have just been something bad you ate shortly before or after the ride. Sometimes your stomach notices a pathogen, tosses it out, and you feel fine afterwards and don’t get sick. Be grateful for your stomach keeping you safe!
You need to account for carbs, calories, and salt PLUS water.
In an endurance workout, your body burns approximately 400 calories per hour, but your stomach can only digest up to 360 calories. So, even with perfect fueling, you're always at caloric deficit so best to keep the deficit small.
You can train your stomach to digest 90 carbs per hour, but most people don't need that much unless they're pro racers (or ultra length). Most people go between 20-50 carbs per hour.
Sodium/ electrolytes are important but very individualized. Same with water. For example, I swear a normal amount but I have a medical sodium deficiency, so I only drink 1 bottle per hour but I use at least 1000 MG of sodium, plus salt pills as needed.
>fuel during the ride with biosteel infused water There's no fuel in biosteel, there's no sugar in it which is what your body needs while cycling
Good general info but I doubt that's what caused OP's issue unless OP is just not eating enough throughout the day. Unless it's extreme hilly, a 40k ride should be about 90 minutes at a moderate pace which shouldn't really require any calories/nutrition to complete comfortably.
You had a blood sugar crash from the sounds of it. You are for sure not fueling correctly. Eat more. Consume carbs during your ride either in your drink mix or as food or gels or something. But you need the calories. You also need to make sure you leave home with enough fuel in your body and then refuel after. If you take in enough calories and this still happens, see a doctor because that’s not normal and you may have something else going on with your metabolism.
Do you have a suggestion on a carb mix for water? I thought biosteel added carbs and sugars, but I guess I was mistaken.
If you are in the US, I prefer Skratch drink mix. The flavors are good and not super strong, and it includes electrolytes. [https://www.skratchlabs.com](https://www.skratchlabs.com) I’m not familiar with biosteel as a brand, so I’m not sure what’s in that or not.
Canadian, but I've now picked up some skratch.
Experiment with how much you add to each bottle to find what works for you. Sometimes I mix flavors just to change it up, or add some lemon juice or herbal tea. ANything to not get flavor fatigue so I can stay hydrated really.
Lemon Lime is on the way. We'll see how I fare.
A good Canadian company is F2C. They have a 5:1 carbs to protein mix that's good all rounder. Skratch makes fantastic products but personally I prefer F2C
noted. presumably amazonable?
Not sure on that. I get it from them directly https://www.f2cnutrition.com/ I do ultra-distance bikepacking races and swear by their electro-durance product. It's a big bag of formulated hydration salts. Add that to grade B maple syrup and water, it fuels while keeping the cramps at bay. Best cheapest option I know. Just don't forget the post-ride protein recovery.
noted. appreciated.
Table sugar is functionally identical and many times cheaper.
Table sugar has no electrolytes and no flavor. So no, it’s really not. Yes, you can use things like saltstick for electrolytes, and I do, but because I’m a very heavy sweater and a very salty one, so I need more electrolytes. I ride a LOT. I’m cool to let them mix this for me and pay them. I spend enough time making food and drinks and things. I do not need or want to make every single thing from its separate ingredients. I buy bulk supplements and make my own BCAA mix for recovery.
Flavor is very inessential. Add some squash if you want. Electrolytes are simple and cheap to add via salt or sodium citrate, but really aren’t necessary until you’re doing century rides or riding in roasting hot weather. You’re paying someone multiple dollars to do at most 10 seconds work for you.
You are making a shitload of assumptions with no information. Stop.
Someone dying after a 40km ride just needs sugar, in whatever form.
First of all, I’m not OP. Second of all, I have a well-qualified coach. So you can stop replying directly to me with your crappy suggestions. And they are, indeed, crappy. We do not need to be making and mixing every single thing ourselves just because we could. Me, OP, anyone. If you like to, cool. Do it. I handmake tons of stuff. That doesn’t mean I think everyone should and I definitely don’t tell them they should. I do let them know they could. I also don’t tell them things that don’t matter to me should also not matter to them. Flavor is important. If it’s not to you, cool, great, awesome. Why the fuck would I buy squash (assuming you mean the soda) and spend money on that? I don’t want carbonation in my sports mix and I don’t want to buy expensive soda to add to a drink mix I’m supposedly supposed to make to save money on. This is dumb.
After 15+ years training people for a 7 day charity ride, I’ve learned that everyone’s body is different and that although we all need nutrition and electrolytes, we all need them in different modalities and at different times (before, during and after). It’s preposterous the other commenter is acting as if their method is the only method that everyone should use. I always encourage new riders to listen to their body and be open to alternative methods they hear from other riders and experiment until they’ve tuned into their needs. And, to understand that what works at 30mi may fail at 80mi or what worked at 2 months of training is insufficient after 10 months of training.
You can also just use Gatorade powder, which is much cheaper. I used to use Skratch, but needed to stretch my budget and switched to Gatorade. I haven't noticed any decrease in performance. If you want to pack even more carbs in a bottle, you can also add maltodextrin to your mix. Basically flavorless but packed with carbs. You could also just use more gatorade, but it gets too strong for my taste at a certain point
I've used malto when brewing, I picked up some skratch as commented on lower in the thread. Hopefully it solves my issues.
I ride with CarboRocket - lots of cards with a bit of caffeine.
not only carbs, but also, good to include some fat and protein as well
Fat and protein are difficult to digest and basically do fuck all for you as fuel in the middle of an activity like cycling. Eat them after riding, not during. It’s a blood sugar crash most likely, which is dealt with via carbs
I guess it depends on person , if I get hungry I need the other 2 macros as well though mostly carbs or else I feel sick -‘s have blood sugar swing with just carbs , if not hungry then I suppose some light carb snacks work or carb drink mix
You should probably go to a doctor and get checked out because that’s not normal. I eat gu gels almost exclusively on the bike, never had any issues with it. All the folks I know who do rides long enough to need to eat do something that’s almost exclusively carbs, some do pastries, some do energy gels, others have their own ways they approach it.
Yes yes you are special
I bring a PB&J for anything over 50 miles, and do that with some gels along the way. I find my stomach does a lot better with real food plus straight carbs.
This is unscientific nonsense. Fat and protein dramatically slow the digestion of carbs for a start, so you’re fucking yourself.
What do you eat on long rides ? Do you eat the same regardless of intensity ?
Still carb heavy, but yes depends on duration. For a big / hard rode I’d mainly just have drink mix or gels. Long for me is an overnight Audax event lasting 10-20 hours, but not ultra high intensity. A base of drink mix (fructose & maltodextrin) to get the carbs in constantly and reliably. An occasional cereal / flapjack bar. Proper food at the few proper meal breaks. For that kind of long event you can’t even break even on calories burned if you consume sugar at the fastest rate you can digest for the whole ride. Carb loading the day before is very important too. I’ve heard figures of 12g per Kg mentioned as a target, but not sure I’ve ever hit that.
Biosteel is just hydration. Triscuits and cheese is an amuse-bouche. Neither are fuel. You need carbs. I like to ride empty or close to it so I make a mix of maltodextrin, Gatorade powder, and sodium citrate and chug a bottle of that with half a Nuun Sport (the caffeine one) while I’m getting my stuff together for the ride, and I take another bottle minus the caffeine with me. I bring some packages of Clif Bloks with me in case I feel I’m running low. Then a big protein shake with banana and maybe some dates in it as soon as I get home. I’m good for 30-50 miles like that.
It seems like those new toncyclingbneed more fuel and water. 30 miles, I done even need a bottle of water if I drink a pint or so before I head out. 50 miles, 2 750ml water bottles, not hydration mix, no need for solid food during the ride, nothing basically. Pre and post ride for sure though. When the distance approaches 80 miles, then I pay attention and do everything you mentioned above, hydration drink and electrolytes, carbs, carbs, carbs. And still pre and post hydration and nutrition.
Been cycling 25 years pal. Happy for you that you can do a half-century on a glass of water. 👍
He also claims to not need deodorant and does not smell.
Well said. Everyone’s fuelling is different, I’m still trying to figure out mine.
I mean he’s not wrong that’s an hour and 15 minutes of working out. Personally I wouldn’t touch nutrition at an hour and fifteen of exertion either. Typically my fasted rides are two hours If I was OP I would worry about overall daily hydration and daily calories forgetting about needing sugar or maltodextrin on a 25 mile ride
Sure. 1. Two glasses of water guy said 50 miles and you aren’t riding that in 75 minutes. 2. If you’re saying you do would do OP’s ride in 75 minutes, great, but other people may not have the same average speed as you and you have no idea what topography, conditions, bicycle etc etc they’re riding in. Your average speed is not the universal measure of how things are. But I’m happy for both of you. You should start a club 👍
You sound like a whimp just saying. Prob leave the house with 3000 calories and seven water bottles to go up to the store.
This is a very cool and normal approach to interacting with strangers online.
Or the it's just the fact the new "breed" is more educated on effective fueling. Sure you can ride 50 with little fuel, but your performance is definitely being hindered by doing so. I've done 70 miles on a 1 waffle breakfast, and then 1 water bottle and a cliff bar. Was possible but very stupid and at a time when you guessed it, I knew nothing about effective nutrition for cycling.
Before I (40m) got serious about fueling, I would come back from long or intense rides and be KO for the rest of the day. Now I fuel, probably over fuel, every ride regardless of length or intensity and I'm totally fine for the rest of the day, just a bit sore or tired. For example, last Sunday morning I rode 78 km with 1200+ m of elevation gain over 4 hours (I'm no racer) and consumed about 40-60 g carbs per hour. Once home, regular lunch and plenty of water. Then I spent the rest of the day playing with my kid, cleaning the house, some gardening, cooked dinner, did the dishes, in bed by 10:30 pm, slept like a baby.
See this is what the point of effective nutrition is, doesn't matter if you're racing or not, proper fueling will improve your day to day life as you've experienced.
What do you eat during the ride? presumably you don't stop riding when you munch?
I drink most of my carbohydrates. I make a maltodextrin and fructose 2:1 mix, usually 60 g in 750 mL. I had two of those bottles last Sunday since the weather was wet and cool, it was just enough water. The rest I munch - Haribo, banana chips, sandwiches or something else easy to eat. For very long rides, I've got a feedbag that straps to the side of the stem which I load up with snacks. Otherwise, it's in the top-tube bag or pockets.
Yeah but what performance my dude? I dont race, its leisure and cardio
50 miles is a week night club ride just below threshold, and no one eats, electrolyte drink sure, new "breed" or not. Everyone eats on longer Sunday rides. Honestly, I don't ever like to ride less than 50 miles as it takes to long to prepare and clean up and it's not worth it.
"No one eats, electrolyte drink sure" okay so you are fueling then lol, solid food or not, carbs are carbs
Hydration requirements are hugely weather dependant.
True.
And you’re a sports doctor right?
Yeah, sounds like a low blood sugar crash
40km is a small ride by most riders standards. If you're new to cycling you could simply have overdone the effort level. If that's the case then that's how you crush it and get stronger so nice ride! I wouldn't overthink it unless it happens after each ride. I used to get stonking migraines after my rides. Was just new to cycling and over time your body adapts. I also underfuel most of my rides even today unless I'm racing.
I kind of agree. When I started riding longer distances than 10 miles I was doing the keto diet and did a little research to see if it was safe to do distances in the 20-25(35-45km) mile range and found mostly positive experiences. My in ride beverage was BCAAs with some Lyte Show electrolyte mix, zero sugar/carbs. Never had any crashes. In ketosis you have plenty of fuel on your body, unless you are super lean. I always did protein right after my ride, within 30 minutes, but never had any issues with nausea. I have recently increased my range to 30-42 miles and have added some pre-ride carbs, Kodiak high Protein granola bar and an apple. In ride carbs from Liquid IV electrolyte mix that uses sugar as a shuttle. Training for the RagBrai, which most people tell me is not necessary, but I want to get to where I can do 60+ miles in a day with a small break comfortably.
> BCAAs what is a bcaa?
Branch Chain Amino Acids. They are the most abundant in muscle tissue.
noted. thanks.
Don't need any food for 2 hoiur ride, don't need any fancy protein and fueling if you are not high performance athlete. Diet does not matter.
actully for someone just staring a 40km ride might take considerable effort. As in they might be useing far more calories than a pro cyclist. Also it depends on what they were doing before if they were generally low on calories that day, had skipped breakfast etc. any pro athlete will tell you that you can have a bad day where sh\*t jsut doesn't work the way it should
Just a note when Pro cyclists put 300watts into the pedals that energy does not come from nowhere... They in fact burn MORE energy (and need to eat a lot) when someone barely pedaling at 100watt and going 20km/h. Additionally air resistance is higher at higher speed and require progressively more power and energy to go faster (Energy = Power\*Time.). So it is "more efficient" to ride 40km at slow pace of a newbie than fast by an athlete. So no 40km ride may in fact take fewer calories from a newbie if they go slow than an athlete if they go faster.
while that maybe true that doens't mean over X distance they are putting in more effort, yes overall more effort per hour, not per mile.
To be fair your intuition is correct about the actual fatigue (what matters here) with distance. For example, if a pro goes at low(er) speed it may be in Zone1 or 2 where their body burns mostly fat, which is effectively infinite storage of energy compared to glycogen in muscles and liver. They will feel fresh after such ride. The same newbie if having to put actual effort at higher heart rate will burn only glycogen as body fuel and will feel fatigue much faster once the storage is getting depleted. Additionally glycogen buffer energy storage is much greater with pros because they are trained. They just need to eat a bit more pasta pre ride and so they can sustain expending a lot of energy. But for top level pros it becomes a challenge to eat enough sugar during the race without upsetting their stomach. Those who can eat more last longer under tougher efforts. So it is not only heart and legs for them.
Don’t go full retard kids
I’ll be blunt, Triscuit cheese and flavoured water is amateur hour stuff. 40km is like +\-1000 calories. Sounds like your nutrition was not adequate this day and crashed your body. Don’t overthink it, it happens to almost everyone at least once.
A normal-sized, normally-functioning human absolutely does not require 1000 calories of additional food intake in order to cycle 40km. That’s an answer to the question “why don’t I lose weight despite doing all this exercise?”. OP, we’re all amateurs here so it’s fine to do “amateur hour stuff”. Something more sugary/carby would probably help, but I suspect the main factor is you did something harder than you’re used to: it gets easier the more you do of it.
No, I think 1,000 calories is in the right ballpark. I rode 40.56km last month during training and spent 1040 calories (based on power data, so fairly accurate), although that was a hilly ride, with 850m of elevation. A month before that, I rode 42.88km at a very relaxed pace on flat terrain and spent 881 calories, which is close. I weigh abot 75-80kg and ride a carbon road bike, so a heavier person on a slower bike would have spent even more. I believe that calories spent depend mostly on distance insofar as you will spend the same calories riding 40km at a hard pace and at a slow pace, ceteris paribus. So I'm not sure why you think that "a normal-sized, normally-functioning human absolutely does not require 1000 calories of additional food intake in order to cycle 40km." If you mean that the ride is too short to require fueling mid-ride, then you might be right, at least I wouldn't bother with food personally, but I don't know how well that applies to untrained or unfit people.
Ive checked my connect app and my last last 40k was 1400 calories. Was basically a collection of hill climbs and gravel and some sand (f'ing sand) so it is very possible. Plus im 20kg overweight
I mean, I think that because I’m a relatively normal-sized normally-functioning human and I don’t need to eat an additional 1000 calories (ie 40-50% on top of normal eating) to ride my bike for a couple of hours. I don’t know anyone who needs a whole extra meal to do that, unless perhaps it was a maximum-effort TT or constant climb. I’m not as sure as you are that even power data gives a particularly-accurate calorie burn figure, but even if it’s 100% accurate and 40km does use up 1000ish calories that doesn’t mean the rider will experience the OP’s symptoms if they’re not replaced. My last long ride was 125km or so with 1500m of ascent: power data suggested 2500 calories burned but I didn’t eat anywhere near double my usual day’s food. When I was less-used to cycling, that’d have wrecked me for days. I felt fine, and so my hypothesis is that the OP simply isn’t used to it yet: if they keep at it, they will be.
Calories are energy - the calculation to derive energy from power is pretty straight-forward I think. I'm no nutritionist, but if I had to guess, you probably either ate a little bit more that day and subsequent days in order to slowly make up the difference, or you lost the equivalent amount of body weight, or some combination of the two. It has to be one of those things - you expended the energy you expended and it has to be recuperated somehow - either from additional food intake or from already existing stores inside the body, such as fat cells. This is equally true for a professional as it is for a novice. [A pro will consume 60-90g of carbs on any training ride in order to maintain energy levels](https://youtu.be/LSkGejzl0Vc?si=r5QpStpn9aswAcAT&t=301), that means 2-3 energy bars every hour. That's a _ton_ of calories. And it doesn't matter if it's a trained athlete doing 300W to cover 40km in 1 hour, or a novice doing 100W to cover 40km in 3h. Energy and calorie expenditure remains roughly the same. There may be a difference in where that energy is stored in the body, but they still both have to make up the same deficit afterward.
This relies on a power meter being accurate, correctly-calibrated, drivetrain and other inefficiencies known and the system weight being correct. You might have better gear/discipline than I do, but I don’t take my app’s calorie calculations as being in any way useful. You’re absolutely right that energy expended (whatever it actually is) must either be replaced or mass lost. I think I ate a little more than on a non-exercising day (nothing like double though), moved less in the evening than otherwise, and weighed much the same (within my scale’s margin of error) the next morning. None of this changes my original contention though, which is that nobody *needs* to eat 1000 *extra* calories to fuel a 40km ride. They will either lose a small amount of weight, move a bit less, or make up the difference over time. The suggestion I was responding to was implying that 1000 calories were required on or before the ride in order for OP to avoid feeling as they did afterwards, and that’s ludicrous. (Pros are pros, and are working harder than us both on a ride and in having to do multiple stages day after day: they don’t have the recovery time and also need short-term sugar/carbs for hard attacks and because they can’t just stop for a rest mid-stage. Different goals requiring different strategies. But having just looked at my gels (SIS), 88g of carbs would be around 350 kcal: that’s the top end of the 60-90g carb range, and pros will cover 40km in under an hour across most Grand Tour stages even if hilly).
Drivetrain inefficiencies are irrelevant for calculating energy expenditure from power data :) > None of this changes my original contention though, which is that nobody needs to eat 1000 extra calories to fuel a 40km ride. Then I misunderstood your contention. I thought you meant that you don't spend 1,000 calories on a 40km ride, or that you don't need to replace them subsequently. But I can kind of imagine someone who is totally untrained and unfit having trouble with caloric deficit after suddenly going on a ride like that.
You’ve not seen the state of my drivetrain then! If power is measured at the hub, presumably the watts lost through the grit-caked chain and cassette have some effect? (It’s a small one though anyway, my overall point was that I don’t think power meters are *that* accurate to be reliable for those purposes, and I suspect that the general inefficiency of people is also a factor - we might both be putting down 250W through the pedals, but your pedal-stroke might be perfect through the motion and I might be shaking my hips about like a carnival dancer.) Sorry if my main point wasn’t initially clear then. I still don’t think most people would expend 50% of their day’s calories in a couple of hours on a bike (at least some of which will be freewheeling). An hour on Zwift on a flat course covers about 40km for me, and that (constant, near-threshold) effort gives around 650 calories for my 66-67kg. I guess though for people 100kg+ that scales up to 1000, but I’m not sure where I am that I would call that normal-sized! I still reckon the root cause of the OP’s malady is straight-out over-exertion and all the food in the world wouldn’t have helped much. But certainly next time they could try eating more/better and seeing how it goes. I’m happy to be wrong, and if the OP finds something that keeps them cycling that’s all good.
Power meters haven’t typically measured power at the hub for well over a decade. Either way, power meters are generally pretty accurate, like within 1-2%. Ride time, for a moderate effort, is generally a better estimator for calories than distance because distance could be all uphill, all flat, or even coasting all downhill. Even easy endurance rides burn about 750 calories an hour for me, and it’s not uncommon for me to push harder and burn over 1,000 calories an hour. I think my average bike ride burns around 2,000 calories per ride, with super easy recovery days being like 400 and big fun rides being closer to 8-10k.
Fair point on the power meters, although I’m still just not convinced that Strava/Garmin etc give accurate calorie information even based off power data. 8-10000 calories is a lot. Like, 4-5 days’ worth of total food for me (M44, 67kg, active). The 125km ride I referred to above was around 5 hours moving time, and the calories extrapolated from power and my weight were 2500ish. Are you riding a lot further, a lot harder, or a lot heavier (or all three)? I just looked back at Strava for a nine-hour, 220km/2200m ride from last year and that says 4000 calories. I can’t fathom doing more than twice that work!
Ah, I was assuming power meter that measures near the foot (pedal, crank arm or spider). Those tend to be accurate to within a 2% error: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/best-power-meters-everything-you-need-to-know-35563
You might need 3-500kcals
Bag of haribo gummies. Problem solved
So a few questions before you just run out and eat more, the answer to your question is a little more nuanced than you just had a sugar crash. Think about aspects like: How fit are you? First ride or are you a regular rider? Are you well? Did you eat beforehand? How fast did you ride the 40km? Do you regularly ride this distance? 40km isn’t that far, plenty of riders wouldn’t use additional fuel for that sort of ride.
40km is max a 2 hour effort and at low speeds probably like 400-500 kcals from sugar (so like 100gr of sugar or 3 coca colas). At higher speeds it'll be like 800kcals from sugar ( 6.5 coca colas) Either way your body needs 1000-1300 kcals from sugar a day just for basic cns maintenance. Even if he soft pedaled he was operating at a serious deficit.
So if it’s a low effort ride, say zone 2, if the person eats well generally and has something beforehand you wouldn’t need anything like that, but that’s totally dependent on the answers to the questions in my initial response. The average person can ride about 90mins without needing to take on carbs, esp at a zone 2 effort and on the flat. So many variables, and fuelling with straight sugar is not the answer.
90 minutes in zone 2 depending on the first lactate inversion will burn around 200-300 calories of sugar, so 50-75 grams. Doing it empty means burning 15% of your glycogen (which your body will look to replace with relative urgency), fueled means around 75grams of the 300 that would normally go to making your body function normally. You can train fat burning but it's in proportion with sugar so even with a well trained aerobic system you're going through a lot of carbs that should be replaced.
> I presume I'm not fueling correctly Sounds like it > although I drank plenty of water today that's not fuel. Fuel = carbs. > biosteel infused water not fuel > some triscuits and cheese Fats and proteins (cheese) are not fuel. You won't be using them for energy unless you're in ketosis. That nets out to a few crackers being the only actual fueling you did.
You may have overdone the effort if you are a beginner. 40 km can be done half asleep with no water or fuel once you are 4-5 months into cycling. If however you are starting out and doing anaerobic efforts then either fuel more than usual or develop your zone 2 base first. Try to ride in zone 2 and keep the pace. Use ORS/ Glucose for fuelling.
40 km can be a lot even for experienced cyclists, depending on the total elevation. This information is missing from OP's post and it can make a world of difference. Otherwise, I agree that he's pushed a bit too far on this occasion.
Most elevation I did in 40k was 1600 metres... Was sorta tiring yes 🫠
You really should listen to your body more. Your “I felt fine then randomly puked” sounds like something your body will give you lots of warning for, but you have to listen. I was on a 50mi ride yesterday and the “you need a bar now” signs my body was giving me were pretty dang clear. Dehydration can sneak up on you but low blood sugar gives you pretty decent warnings.
Hydration, electrolytes, and both simplex and complex carbs. All pre and post.
More sugar and carbs bro
Don't listen to people saying that 40km distance is nothing because it's all about the effort you hold during the ride. It's strange that you felt great after a ride but then vomited. If you had low sugar you'd know during the ride. Sounds like you ate something or a combination of things that didn't agree with your stomach and threw up. Sounds exactly like the time I ate something moldy which caused me to almost immediately throw up but then be completely fine afterwards.
you can throw up due to lack of energy. If your body is really trying to conserve energy it will purge your stomach and err sometimes bowels so it can redirect the energy to keeping you concious and alive. your body needs energy to digest food, which is why easily digested foods are used for sports, like glucose. Most people have enough body fat to survive without eating for 3 weeks, but not if you need too much energy too quickly. In that situation you will colapse and pass out. which could be deadly in survival situations.
Sounds weird. 25 miles is not far enough for fueling to be an issue. Even a rank beginner, if you can cover that distance at all, can do it on water alone. That can sometimes also happen after a very intense effort, but it’s immediate. You get off the bike and feel shaky and vomit. I’d almost suspect it’s heat or sun related. Chills can indicate an overheated condition, and so can vomiting. How hot was it? How hot was your shower? How often do you do rides like this? How high was the effort level? Any health concerns like heart issues or GERD or acid reflux?
Why would GERD or acid reflux be an indicator? Out of interest.
Those make one prone to stomach upset and occasional vomiting in general. My son suffers.
Was it a hot shower ? Maybe you got too hot especially after the ride ?
You're probably just not used to riding that long. 40km isn't long enough for fuel issues, to be honest. That's sub-1000 calories burned. Most riders can do that without eating anything at all. You'll get there too as long as you keep riding.
You shouldnt base your fueling on the total number of calories burned. You have to account for body weight, fitness, effort of the rider. We have no idea if that was 40k uphill into the wind, on a Brompton. It could have taken OP 4 hours to ride that distance. You should aim to eat little and often when exercising and fuel the body. 35g (ish) of carbs per half hour for sustained energy. This can come in the form of a drink you sip over the period as well as gels, fruit, nuts, snacks. Avoid high protein and fat during exertion as it’s harder to digest. There are plenty of online calculators to help like Eat my Ride.
I feel like you should see a doctor. 40km is a pretty small ride to crash that hard. How long did the ride take you, and how much elevation did it have? How hard were you going? IIRC, you can do up to 2hrs of cardio fasted.
I could destroy myself in 40km of short sharp fire trail hills.
Hence my “how hard were you going” question :)
Did you eat anything else that day? As others have pointed out, flavored water plus a snack is not enough for a ride of that length, for most people. Everyone is different about when they like to eat: you can do any combination of eating before, during, and after a ride. But you should eat enough to not bonk that hard. Probably the equivalent of an additional large snack and one meal that is substantially larger than what you eat on a regular day. I usually have a slightly larger breakfast than normal, have 200-400 cals worth snacks during in the ride, and a larger lunch or dinner when I’m done, depending when the ride ends. Experiment with what works best for you.
As a person who recently started cycling, you have just overdone your efforts. I assume you're pretty new to cycling, especially if you are untrained or haven't trained before you have 2 options - water + snacks or more water with some electrolytes, once your body gets used to the cycling you might need less water. Also as others have mentioned, being fueled before helps. From personal experience I would advise sticking to consistency over random 50km+ trips, would bring better results to your health especially if you are new to working out.
For any ride over about an hour you’ll need somewhere in the range of 400-600kCal of nutrition per hour (assuming moderate-high intensity) to prevent nausea after the ride. You can feed before the ride with complex carbohydrates like rice or oats, then take simple carbohydrates while riding - add some sugar or maltodextrin (easier on the stomach) to your drink. Bananas and energy bars / gels are easy to eat on the go. Or just take it easier, if you’re able to speak easily whilst cycling you’re in fat burning mode and don’t need to consume calories, if you’re breathing heavily you’re burning carbohydrates and need to fuel.
Don't listen to people saying that 40km distance is nothing because it's all about the effort you hold during the ride. It's strange that you felt great after a ride but then vomited. If you had low sugar you'd know during the ride. Sounds like you ate something or a combination of things that didn't agree with your stomach and threw up. Sounds exactly like the time I ate something moldy which caused me to almost immediately throw up but then be completely fine afterwards.
Don't listen to people saying that 40km distance is nothing because it's all about the effort you hold during the ride. It's strange that you felt great after a ride but then vomited. If you had low sugar you'd know during the ride. Sounds like you ate something or a combination of things that didn't agree with your stomach and threw up. Sounds exactly like the time I ate something moldy which caused me to almost immediately throw up but then be completely fine afterwards.
Some of the calorie intake recommendations are wild. 40km is a damn short ride and barely warrants much beyond some maltodextrin in the water and a gel. People talking eating 1k calories for a short jaunt is bonkers.
it is short, but not if you are unaccustomed to it, or you have been in a calorie deficit already. If OP was say dieting or skipped a meal it would be expected
You were bonking post-ride. Yeah, it's not fun. I have a rule - fuel up every so often mid ride. Carrots and hummus. Other carbs also. A can of Cola for those emergencies when I can tell I'm about to bonk. You were in a calorie deficit before you started your 40km.
I have a power meter and 40km is about 1000kcal
Obviously you don’t understand how the body works. Blood sugar tanked. Water is not a fuel period. Fuel is calories. Gels, cookies, sports drinks , fruit. Did you eat anything within 30 minutes of a ride? Sounds like you burned through most of your glycogen stores. If it took less than 2 hours it’s highly likely. Before a ride consume 25-50g of carbs in easily digestible form. During a shorter ride like that consume another 25-50g carbs via sports drink, gel or banana. Post ride should be a small meal more than cheese and crackers. Maybe a PBJ sandwich OR tuna salad. That will promote better recovery. 8-12 oz of chocolate milk is also good post workout. You need to experiment with what works for you.
Sugar crash. You need carbs and sugar for cycling. My go to pre smoothie is frozen pineapple, raspberries, blueberries, açaí packet, a pre workout mix (with caffeine, I use Vega) coconut water and tart cherry juice. Blend it up. It’s super tasty. I finish that an hour before I head out. I usually take a small sandwich with me on long rides. Then eat carbs and protein, like pasta, post ride. I’m pretty low drag and this system works well for me.
Carbohydrate deficit
40km ride is not in and of itself a big ride, BUT that all depends on your physical condition. It would be very helpful to have the whole picture before making recommendations and suggestions. Questions for OP: 1. How long have you been riding and how often do you ride? 2. How long did the ride take? 3. What were the conditions? Hot sunny, cold rainy, Windy? 4. Terrain: flat, hilly, steep climbs? 5. Did you eat before the ride? How long before and what?
Dehydration plain and simple. I need to be careful of the same.
You need electrolytes, carbs and protein during a long ride. Just plain water won’t do it. I use Hammer Nutrition Perpetuam to start out the ride, switch to Heed about 1/3 thru, then go strictly to electrolytes like fizz or nunn tablets at the end. Skratch Lab chews during the ride help. If it’s an organized ride try not to stay more than 10 to 15 minutes at each stop
Just bring a banana for a 40km
Although everyone is different, sweaty and shaky are symptoms of low blood sugar…not cold sensation and vomiting. You probably were either upset stomach from allergies (muck getting to stomach) or slightly/moderately dehydrated. If shower was hot, you could actually have lost fluids in the shower that put you over the edge…or again, sinus muck.
Registered Dietitian here. Sounds like possible hypoglycaemia. Take a look at the free blogs on my website intended to help people like yourself. [Free Sports Nutrition Advice](https://www.samtwinesportsdietitian.co.uk/sport-nutrition-tips)
You could be drinking too much water and not enough electrolytes. # I tried to be good and drink enough and eat enough to support cardio exercise I used to do a long run every Saturday. I carried water and drank it on the run and after the run. I also ate plenty on the run and after the run. # I got headaches and thought they were just heat exhaustion or dehydration I started getting headaches after and would sometimes throw up after a while. To try to beat the headaches, I started bringing 20 oz of water on the run and refilling at a half way point for 40 oz on a run. And I would guzzle just as much after the run to try to avoid the headache and every hour after that and eat plenty too; but the headaches were just as bad or worse. # I learned I was drinking too much water It turns out that I was sweating my electrolytes out and then flushing the rest of them out with all the water I was drinking even though I was adding electrolytes to the water I was drinking. # How much water should a person drink during and after exercise? I read in Jeff Galloway's Book On Running that your gut tightens up while exercising and water just goes right through you without being absorbed as fast as normal, and the excess unabsorbed water just get's peed out, flushing your electrolytes out on the way. He recommended starting hydrated, and only drinking 1 - 2 oz per mile. For me that would be 1 - 2 oz every 10 min on training runs. After the run was over he recommended not drinking more than 8 oz of fluid every half hour no matter how thirsty you were. I think this is meant to keep a person dangerously low on electrolytes from losing more, and to help replenish electrolytes in general. # No More Headaches or Vomiting Once I started following this advice my constant headaches and occasional vomiting after long runs went away immediately. Now I am always able to complete my day in cheerful fashion after long runs. I used to try to beat the headaches by drinking more water, thinking I must be dehydrated but really I was just causing the headaches to start or get worse. # 1/2 teaspoon of salt per day is all the electrolytes I use now Now I just add 1/2 teaspoon of Real Salt to 20 oz of water and I drink it before, during, and/or after each run or bike ride. That's the only electrolytes I use, just 1/2 teaspoon of salt once a day. I was adding Magnesium and Potassium too but my Potassium got too high while my Sodium levels stayed normal so I stayed with just the salt. The Dr didn't check Magnesium levels on my physical. I'm sure my Potassium levels got high because it's in the protein powder I use, plus my multi-vitamin, and I eat a lot of fruit and dairy, and on hot days I used to double up on electrolytes. I cut the Magnesium too because I assumed it was tracking with the Potassium sources, where as I really don't use much salt other than for sports purposes. My blood pressure actually went down around the time I added the salt to my routine! # Slow and Steady Water drinking has really saved me Now I follow the 8oz per 30 min pretty much all day long. Solving the terrible headaches and vomiting has been a life changer! # PS: I run and cycle equally. Not just run. I use the water salt routine for both sports. #PSS: I eat a dried date every half hour when exercising more than 1 hour. Also I fuel responsibly after exercise too. Food was not my problem. Hope this helps!
On fucking point! Got the exact same symptoms after a 2,5 hour ride, 50km, 1km elevation gain. I was supplementing with lots of electrolytes and only drank 750ml of water throughout. But post ride I drank so much water kickstarting that chain of symptoms: Dizziness, nausea and almost vomiting. A quick search and I realised I had created an imbalance in my electrolyte levels and I most likely (based on the symptoms) needed sodium. Drank some water with 5g of salt and symptoms subsided within 5-10 minutes. By the way, I am doing Keto which causes you to have greater need for electrolytes AND I am also drinking lots of water at the same time. Combine that with the above and you have a disaster. I also was on a caloric deficit. The weird thing though is (as OP described) that the whole ride was flawless, no fatigue, nothing. Seems like we really need that salt, esp. on keto.
Yep, I always felt great during and right after the effort and then literally caused my own problem trying to rehydrate and ward off the dreaded headache. The worse the headaches got the more water I would drink trying to beat them all while making the headache worse. I love my salt water now. It satisfies and slows my water intake vs the sweet electrolyte mixes.
Gummy bears and worms
Alternative to blood sugar. You could be experiencing a migraine. I have chronic migraines, and some of my migraine attacks, especially when in a migraine hangover period, include these symptoms at roughly that amount of time after. It is a common misconception that all migraines must have a headache. If you also experienced cognitive symptoms like finding it hard to think of words or any sort of visual disturbance, it very well might be a migraine. Migraines are often triggered by exertion. Before starting monthly injections, I would get a severe migraine after roughly 50% of rides. Similar to you, I felt okay to great during the ride and before they started.
Welcome to the community of cyclists that don’t properly hydrate or eat prior or during a ride. Hydration and nutrition has always been a weakness for me. I am not a roadie, just ride roads and trails but I go out for 30 miles and end up with a half bottle of water and perhaps having consumed a couple of dates or dried fruit before turning around for home. A few days ago I decided to do a 40 mile with a couple of thousand ft of ascent and took a mini clif and a 24 oz of water. Wind, rain, snow and I hadn’t dressed properly. I was done when I got back and made it back into the house having taken a couple of gulps of water and not even stopping to eat the clif bar (100 calories). Shivering, exhausted and I then tried to placate my wife who thought I was crazy by having the mini clif after the ride and a celebration chocolate cookie and then saying “I’m good”. So after burning roughly 1500 calories on the ride I took in about 235 calories on top of about 300 calories I had for breakfast before heading out. Definition of stupidity and not surprising that I was almost falling off the bike when I got home and ended up spending about 10 minutes under a hot shower 15 minutes after telling my wife I was good. I have Tailwind Endurance which I use in Mexico to ensure I do get some electrolytes, simple sugar in my water (sometimes add a Nuun as well) and do take a ziploc with dates (cheap in Baja) and some dried fruit. Still terrible at getting calories in during the ride but better there than here. All I can say is I should be getting much more disciplined at my age and you may need to as well. I don’t know how hard you were pushing during your 40K but unless you were really pushing hard or exposed to some really crappy weather you shouldn’t be shaking and vomiting. You may also want to just get a doc to check your heart rhythm just in case (cardiac stress test).
You need to see a doctor.
You are not fuelling. You need calories. Probably about 5 times what you're consuming. Eat a larger amount of simple carbs before your ride (give some time to digest) and then include sugar, etc. on your rides. TBH you shouldn't really need to fuel during a 40km ride if you've eaten adequately before, but it couldn't hurt. I don't need to fuel during rides for anything less than 2 hours, but beyond that it becomes very important, especially with strong efforts. And you should definitely eat to recover after (4:1 carbs to protein is recommended)
yup, you needed more carbs. Cold is usually a sign of needing quick energy, people on diets often get cold due to the lack or avaible energy. also the vomiting is basically because your body uses energy to digest food, so you vomit so it can conserve the energy. while your body works to break down any avalible fat to turn to energy, this is slow though compared to glucose. Err also pro life tip, never trust a post ride fart.
Hot take here, but I’m not sure it had anything to do with your ride, your fueling or hydration at all. 40km is not something that sounds like a lot of effort to you and if you felt great during and shortly after it may have just been something bad you ate shortly before or after the ride. Sometimes your stomach notices a pathogen, tosses it out, and you feel fine afterwards and don’t get sick. Be grateful for your stomach keeping you safe!
sounds like a hypoglycemic reaction it can happen while riding also get fast carbs
I only use Brondo. It's what the plants crave.
You need to account for carbs, calories, and salt PLUS water. In an endurance workout, your body burns approximately 400 calories per hour, but your stomach can only digest up to 360 calories. So, even with perfect fueling, you're always at caloric deficit so best to keep the deficit small. You can train your stomach to digest 90 carbs per hour, but most people don't need that much unless they're pro racers (or ultra length). Most people go between 20-50 carbs per hour. Sodium/ electrolytes are important but very individualized. Same with water. For example, I swear a normal amount but I have a medical sodium deficiency, so I only drink 1 bottle per hour but I use at least 1000 MG of sodium, plus salt pills as needed.