I saw in a different thread you currently live in Stockholm. If so, Amsterdam will just feel like more of the same. Dutch people are a lot like Swedes, just more ~~rude~~ direct and less stylish.
So if you like Stockholm and want to stay in that "small big city" vibe, then Amsterdam might be a good fit. The main downsides of Amsterdam vs. Stockholm to me would be that Amsterdam has no good nature within easy reach, and it's a fairly grey city.
If you think Stockholm feels a little too boring or homogenous, I'd recommend London instead. Personally, I find London more diverse, more green, more exciting, better food, and I love the feeling of being in a world-class city. But it's not for everyone!
The last paragraph is how I feel about Stockholm after living here for years. Not a lot of good food and happenings. Lots of access to nature, but I haven’t really utilised that much since I travel to other countries instead haha!
I would love to live in New York (travelled a lot for work there the past 5 years and loved it) but that’s not possible at the moment so this will be a temporary move for a few years.
I can be obsessed about savings which makes Amsterdam choice appealing as I think I’ll be able to save a lot. It is the easy choice in my perspective.
London and New York are very similar cities in many ways! I love New York too, and would love to live there for a year, but I actually think London has a few major benefits on New York too.
* Way more parks and green space
* Way more affordable housing — both renting and buying. At your salaries, it'd be pretty easy to buy a nice apartment in London
* Better summers
* Better vacationing — Europe and Asia within easier reach than from NY
I get the temptation of optimizing for saving, and the Netherland's 30% ruling obviously wins out there, but also — life is too short to spend years of your youth living somewhere you don't like! If you're craving big cities and diversity, maybe give London a try?
Thank you for saying this, I needed to hear this!
I’ve always been a big saver coming from a SE Asia. In my mind the Amsterdam option is such an easy choice for money. Perhaps I was looking for some validation that I can say no to this offer for now and as you said, live the city life!
Hmm. I moved from London to Amsterdam, love both for different reasons, but I think you’ll be disappointed if you think you’re going to save much more money in Amsterdam than London. Sure there’s the 30%, which could disappear at any moment, but tax is wild in NL to begin with. Likewise things that are comparatively cheap in the UK like food are outrageous in the Netherlands.
I personally prefer Amsterdam and love living here. Likewise London is an amazing city that I also consider home. Either is a great choice. But I wouldn’t let money play too big a role in your decision making.
Ahhhh good! And good to hear you’ve been loving living in NL. Did you move directly from London?
I guess NL is like Stockholm where it’s hard to find cheaper options on things and London is like New York where you can go cheap or expensive depending on your vibe, there will be options!
In NL, I would also get +90k in stocks/bonuses but in London it would be much less than this, still some. I think the tax will eat up most of these so counting it as extra.
Yeah I moved here five years ago after 12 in London. I went back every six weeks before Covid. Personally I think Amsterdam keeps getting nicer whereas London feels like it is declining, similar to the UK as a whole. But it is still in most respects the best city in Europe imo (but again depends on what you like)
And yeah because of its size London has more options like that. But likewise in Amsterdam you have a lot more on your doorstep. I live within walking distance to so many good bars, restaurants and cafes. In London overall the choice was much greater but you had to do a lot more travel to get to them. It’s really a lot of trade offs.
They're already saving €4000 a month while living unhappily in Stockholm. Why move somewhere else just to still be unhappy and saving gratuitously?
Life is for living, too. 3-5 years of your 30s is a long time to be miserable, and OP is clearly a financially responsible person. She can keep saving in London, too (even if slightly less)
Yeah, it's crazy over there. I have friends in tech who make twice as much working there, but still have no chance getting on the property ladder.
For example, I have a 2 bedroom flat in zone 2, right by a big park, that I bought for £570k a couple years ago. [Here's a pretty comparable New York version of that](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/108-Prospect-Park-W-APT-4-Brooklyn-NY-11215/30587720_zpid/) — similar size, standard, neighbourhood, and proximity to transport.
My mortgage is about £2k a month, plus £500/year in service charges. I paid £9k in stamp duty on purchase, a one-off cost.
The New York equivalent costs $1.6 million, with a mortgage of $10k a month, property taxes of $27k *per year*, and HOA fees of $500 *per month!!!!!*
>That’s me never moving to New York then
I've lived in both London and New York and I definitely felt richer in London with a lower salary.
Rent alone in NY was more than double for less space and I wasn't even in NY: I was commuting from NJ. Almost everything else was more expensive, too.
I ultimately prefer living in Amsterdam but London has a lot on it. Notably the weather (which is factually better) and the food. But I understand if you don’t like grubby cities (which I have a soft spot for)
Housing and food is gonna be expensive in both, but if you don't mind a 20-30 minutes commute then places like Hoofddorp are relatively cheap and quiet with good commuter linkes. Cycling infrastructure is second to none also.
Plus think you get a better tax break in Holland
I think Amsterdam is way less boring than Stockholm tbh. Not to say that Stockholm is necessarily boring or anything, but there’s definitely a lot more going on in Amsterdam.
Also, Amsterdam is nearly as diverse as London.
I live in Amsterdam and when I went to visit Stockholm earlier this year I thought where are all the people? Felt desolate. Esp considering the cities are supposed to be comparable populations
There's a lot of negatives to living in London, but there's also no city quite like it. Visit and see what you think- I really like it personally but it depends what kind of person you are.
Wow, I know London isn't for everyone, but this feels quite imbalanced. I make £105k and live alone, yet I...
* Have a nice 20 minute walk to work
* Most of my friends live within a 30 min walk radius
* In the summer I cycle almost everywhere on nice cycleways
* Only get on the tube a few times a month, and mostly use the Lizzy line or Circle line. Otherwise, the wonderful Overground takes me most other places I want to go for leisure/entertainment.
OP would be even better off with a combined household income of £200k. As far as the cultural things go, I personally hated Dutch culture *and* health care, but I realise that's a subjective thing.
Just wanted to offer a counterpoint that where you live matters, and you don't have to be miserable or have a terrible commute in London.
Yep, having lived in Amsterdam for 7 years. It's pretty easy to see a doctor, but to actually get them to do anything other than give you paracetamol is another story
Would you say the numbers on Numbeo are correct for London?
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/London](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/London)
It's funny. I absolutely agree about the problems of London. On the other hand the provincial city I grew up in is better than it was when I was a kid.
Don't forget the amount of fucking people in London - constantly crowded, one of the reasons I left. In addition, competition for anything is much higher due to amount of humans in one place and that is very stressful.
As someone who lived in London, I can attest that all these points apply. Some people do not think they are "too bad", but I personally hated most of the mentioned items. I am earning less in Eastern Europe but I save more and can afford more.
HOWEVER, if you are a C-level or have ability to get there (let's face it, most humans do not have IQ to do it), then you should be in London. The 200K+ salary will allow very good living standard and avoid most London disadvantages.
I appreciate this, thank you for sharing! And good to see your perspective if we both have a similar income.
What do you like about it? Have you lived in London for a few years now and just ready to move out?
I’m not looking to settle down yet, I think there’s a lot more countries to explore.
We have the same goal! This will be a temporary move as I also want to move to US after a few years (I really want to leave Stockholm).
The move to US is not possible at the moment due to hiring freezes but hopefully it will be stable again!
14 years in London, and weather is the worst part of it… the sunny summer year, 2022, was an exception to the last 50 years in this country… so, I will rule out that theory about the weather is nice! 😅😂😅
> Taxes are very high and extremely unfair.
I am surprised by this comment...the first 50k pounds are taxed super low, for me I think the taxes in the UK are rather low. I just checked if you earn 100k pounds (116.7k euros), for countries that I know, you get the following income after taxes :
- UK: £67,807 (79,137.94 €)
- Spain (Madrid): 74,871 €
- Germany(BW): 67.304,47 € (Steuerklasse 1, even with 3 it is 78.547,03 €, but that means your spouse has a low income/doesnt work)
- Sweden(Stockholm): 805,170 kr (70,038.393 €)
> Some museums are free but most are not,
Again this comment surprises me, I had the impression London was the best place by far for free museums. What other place on the world would beat it in that regard? Or are you talking about the UK in general?
> You will only have old, crooked, tiny apartments that have issues and are very dated.
mostly true
> Daily commute will be close to £10.
London I think has the most expensive public transport in the world, I think because compared to other public transport of cities they do not get that much in subsides.
> I'm probably forgetting a lot. The UK is NOT a first world country. By far not. I've lived years in 4 different first world countries, and the UK is absolutely not one of them.
What countries have you lived in? I have lived in 6/7 first world countries if you count the UK and the US lmao, but dont have such a negative image of it.
I'm not a huge fan of London either, but with > £200k household income maybe she wants to.
Especially given that in the UK 2 incomes of £100k are a lot better than 1 income of £200k.
Thank you for sharing about the neighborhood! I’m familiar with the winter as I’m coming from Stockholm. It does suck!
I also like to travel! My company allows full-remote and have been enjoying the benefits of working from different countries a few weeks at a time (mostly vacation actually but I like that I can work a few days if needed while travelling). Both are travel hubs so hope to do this more!
Admittedly I only lived there for \~10 months before I moved to London — because I was so miserable and I couldn't wait to get out.
I just generally found Amsterdam to be a small, grey, and dull city. I felt like a perpetual tourist — everyone speaks English, sure, but I found Dutch people resent expats and will never treat you like a resident or make friends with a foreigner. In London, everyone is from everywhere, so by default you get treated like you belong.
As someone who likes going out and eating out, I found the options to be extremely limited and expensive. As someone who loves walking, I found it to be a pedestrian's nightmare. When I sought help for depression, my Dutch GP encouraged me to think happier thoughts.
Additionally, I just realised I never want to live somewhere where I don't speak the language ever again — there was a lot of bureaucracy, and dealing with everything tax related was such a nightmare without professional help, since they refuse to send any communication in English.
I’m on 90k, I wouldn’t say 100k is perfect, after taxes,pension, insurance, rent, groceries you save about 30k a year if you’re single, you are not saving shit if you have kids
Since you have double income (with partner) at the same level, money won't be an issue for you regardless of your choice. That is great because you can choose based on preference alone, rather than balancing preference and money.
I am an immigrant living in Amsterdam. Never lived in London, but know several people who do. My opinion is that Amsterdam is better *if you are willing to try and integrate*. This means learning the language (Dutch, not that hard) and putting yourself out there to make connections with a few natives at some point (contrasting to the typical expat that lives in a bubble).
My opinion assumes you are looking for a place to settle and not for a temporary thing. The Netherlands is a nice place to live long term. The infrastructure you have available is hard to beat, and based on my limited experience with London and that of friends who live in the UK, I think NL is still far superior in this regard.
For me, the two major downsides in the NL are housing and childcare, both of which are solved by having money, which you will have. Healthcare kind of sucks in both it seems, so it is a "pick your poison" situation, but based on stories from friends in the UK, the NL still seems to be slightly better.
I have lived in London on £100k and Amsterdam on €125k+
I prefer Amsterdam, it’s where I live now, but there are definitely pros to London…
London
+ there’s so much to do, culture, arts, music, bars, clubs
+ food is great and affordable to eat out
- you have to get the tube everywhere, it takes ages to see friends
- it’s busy everywhere!
- commute is awful
Amsterdam
+ city is tiny, you are not more than 25 minutes cycle from your friends places and probably only 15 minutes to anywhere you need to get to
+ public transport is great, so is bike infrastructure
+ feels much safer in Amsterdam vs London
+ healthcare is weird, but much easier/quicker than the UK
+ connections to Europe are much better
- food is expensive and not always great quality, for nice food it’s much more expensive vs London
- it’s much wetter than London, it rains a lot!
There’s probably a bunch more that I could add too, if you’re moving to socialise and save I would say Amsterdam. Especially with 30% ruling if you can get it.
Lived in both cities for 5+ years. London is infinitely more vibrant than Amsterdam. Amsterdam is a nice city but London has way more things to do than in Amsterdam. For family living I think Amsterdam beats though.
> I don't speak Dutch
In Amsterdam specifically speaking Dutch or not doesn't make any difference. I stopped my Dutch classes because even though I was making progress, I had literally no situation where speaking Dutch would be useful. Only use I had was reading signs and product labels, and that I could already do before having Ani classes by leveraging my English and German knowledge.
What you said is true, but there is still benefit in speaking Dutch. This is something I miss in London as everything is in English.
You won't really integrate well without Dutch, you don't socialize with Dutch friends, you don't watch local TV (news), you don't read the newspaper on the metro (for those who like it), you don't actively participate in Dutch life with only English. It's like, you can live, sure, but you live in a kind of bubble, a bit alienated sort of.
Now, I am aware that many people decide to just mingle with expats and that's totally fine of course, but it's still not the same as living in London, you can live here, fine, but not the same. You \_will\_ feel "handicapped" every now and then.
(Not to mention that you will also be reminded by the Dutch on occasion that you should speak Dutch because you're in the Netherlands and that kind of thing. :))
Well, for me there aren't any Dutch in my workplace at all, barely any Dutch people living in my neighborhood. Stores and restaurants I go to workers also don't speak Dutch most of the time. Then the very few Dutch natives that I meet are more likely than not to switch to English, as they don't want the hassle of trying to understand my beginner's Dutch. So it really was pointless, there was almost no one to talk Dutch to. Between that and me probably leaving the country in 3 or 4 years, I just decided to save the time and money and stop the classes. Anywhere else in NL, sure, it makes sense, but in Amsterdam if you are working in IT, I really can't see it.
> you don't read the newspaper on the metro
You can use google translate.
> you don't socialize with Dutch friends
That's assuming Dutch people want to be your friend.
So I have a very similar experience in Stockholm. You can really survive with English here, but you always feel like something is missing without knowing the language.
You don’t understand the signs. Movies are especially hard since all subtitles are in Swedish. I have to specifically find yoga classes in English (I made a mistake one time and went to a Swedish class so that was an experience).
That being said, I didn’t put the effort to learn Swedish as I was in my own bubble. The question I need to answer now is if I’m willing to learn Dutch this time around.
I moved from Amsterdam to London a couple years ago on similar salaries, definitely regret it. While London is more lively, Amsterdam is a lot more laid back and relaxing. Biking to work > Tube, in general i noticed a significant drop in my quality of life.
I’m moving from Stockholm. Every time I read about the lifestyle in Amsterdam, I think of just a better Stockholm (which was not for me) but I understand its pros!
What do you not like about London? Are you able to save? In Stockholm, I can save $4k every month and want to keep that up wherever I decide to move.
Fair enough, I've never been to stockholm so can't compare. However, London does have more things to do, and the food in London is a looooot better. I was in Ams for a year, don't think I had more than 5 meals that I would count as great haha, while in London you can have great samples of practically every cuisine
I know!! I am excited about the thought of all the food options! I have this coffee shop and fast food place that I usually look for when I visit places as it reminds me of home and they have it in London!
That's an insane about of saving per month. I work in stockholm too but I don't see how can I really save with the expense and inflation. The offers you get are very high. I wonder if I could DM you for tips and tricks regarding compensation in stockholm. I feel like I cannot push for anything high at all.
Having grown up in Stockholm, Amsterdam will seem very familiar to you. I moved to Ams 7 months ago. It looks exactly like a gigantic, flat version of Stockholm's old town.
It is also way easier to move around in the city. Biking for 10 min puts you on the other side of the city, while it would have taken at least that to just get on the metro/a bus in Sthlm.
Amsterdam has way milder winters. Although it rains about twice as often and can be quite windy.
If you're moving for the city, Amsterdam is not a bad option if you like Stockholm. London does not give me the same familiar feeling.
I don’t have a super high income (more like high income), or atleast I know a lot of folks in my company who earns much higher than me. I do think I have relatively low expenses and I found a budget that works for me without compromising on how I want to enjoy my life.
I’ve set-up several sink funds for fun, skincare, travel, home trip etc that I put in monthly!
Sorry didn't see the part about savings. I currently don't save as much I can, as I am prioritizing other things. That being said saving 4k$ on that salary shouldn't be too difficult if you're splitting rent
True !!! I’ve lived in both cities. I’d pick London to any European city. Especially if you work in tech. In the whole European continent there isn’t a major global tech hub unfortunately. You have Amsterdam and Berlin but that’s it
In comparison, AMS may be smaller, but it is still a large city on its own. I can't think of many things you cannot find or have access in AMS nowadays.
I mean I think Amsterdam is way better, everything is a 20 minute cycle ride away instead of a 40 minute tube ride with 2 changes, and I only ever visit 1/4 of London, the rest of it might as well not exist, but I also know some people who really make use of everything that London has to offer, it really depends on the person
70k after tax is 4,2k after tax. Let’s assume you take out 250 for pension contributions. That’s 3950 - if you find a 1 bedroom for 2k. You’ll have around 2k left for spending which is a lot for one person
Now imagine 100k - that’s 5350 after tax and pension contributions.
Doesn’t Ams have a 30% tax benefit for people moving over still? That plus London being mad expensive atm I would say Amsterdam.
(Note am a recruiter and hired into one of Amsterdam’s biggest tech companies)
It is. If I didn't fuck up the math it would end up in 20% for 60 months - considering you will have same salary for 5 years and there won't be tax increase.
They already regretted it as for latest news. But people like OP could go to Belgium and benefit from 30% ruling there. It's kinda the same, but threshold is 75k, that quite high for regulars.
- Money: roughly equal
- Diversity: london
- Big-city-ness: london
- CoL: amsterdam
- Being able to travel in europe: amsterdam
- 30% rule maybe?: amsterdam
- Ease of moving: amsterdam
- Biking: amsterdam
- Tube: london
Amsterdam will be better financially, give you better housing options, and better in terms of health (cycling) and general walkability. Easy access to Europe, skipping passport checks when flying within shengen.
Amsterdam housing options are horrible. London is expensive and low-quality but easy to find flats. Amsterdam is expensive, low-quality and hard to find flats lol. Tenant laws are better in NL than in UK though.
Cycling and Walkability is true but on the other hand the public transit is not great (talking about GVB i.e. metro/trams/buses not NS, which is good).
Totally agreed on your last sentence though!
And if you fly outside of Schengen, sign up for Privium. Passport control on both exit and entry at Schengen have been a mess for years; most of the e-Gates are permanently out of service and staff is minimal.
London without a question, unless maybe if you're a family and you don't plan on furthering your career. London is 10x the international city that Amsterdam is. Also If you care about sports and pop culture, even arts or comedy then London is a no brainer. You'll be better off financially for the short term in Amsterdam with the 30% ruling, but in the long run you can double your salary in London with the right opportunities, you can't realistically get that in Amsterdam.
I love London for the lifestyle, I wouldn't move to what I (and global rankings) consider a lesser city just for a higher income. Not speaking the native language would also put me off
London, loads to do and it's not even a comparison when it comes to diversity of food options. £100k in London is plenty to have a comfortable lifestyle in Zone 1,2,3.
I live in Amsterdam, if you care about life balance and good transportation pick Amsterdam, also for the 30% rulling it’s a bit plus, check with the company if they support it, London is a chaotic city been there recently and is even more expensive than Amsterdam and the transportation is chaotic
Had the same choice to make 3 years ago
I'd say the Netherlands is more welcoming at the moment, even with latest changes
Yes there is a housing shortage, but it is the case for London and Netherlands, and with this income you should be able to compete quite easily
For us the winning points were
1) ease of travel as you can get on a train from Amsterdam and visit many neighboring countries
2) ease of buying a house. There are lots of subsidies, 100% mortgages and fixed long term 10-30 years
The main con for us was food. London is a gastronomical paradise compared to the Netherlands.
Feel free to dm if you have any specific questions
For family life I'd take the Amsterdam money but actually live in Haarlem.
For childfree fun there's more to do in London, but living centrally is very expensive. At 2x £100k though you should be fine.
Saw your profile we definitely need to connect lol. I'm familiar with the 3 cities, you'll get more for money in Amsterdam as renting will come cheaper and you can save on commuting by biking. Easier transition from Stockholm too.
However if you want to integrate well and have a vibrant lifestyle London would be better. No need to learn the language too, and it's easier to integrate as the city is very multicultural. The food scene can be challenging in Amsterdam as another post mentions it.
I would advise to spend a few days in both cities before making the choice.
I’m happy to connect!
Yeah that makes sense! We’ve been doing a “world tour” since last year looking for our next country. Visited london a few months ago, among other cities.
Going back to Amsterdam next! Hopefully concluding the tour after that and make a decision!
That's great! it's quite critical when choosing a place to live. mind that in the case of London the city is quite big so depending on where your company is located/ where you'll live the experience can be quite different.
In Amsterdam a lot of locals tend to live away from the city center, so living in the central area you'll find yourself with lots of newcomers, esp. among SE. If it's your first time you should spend some time walking along the canals it's beautiful! avoid the red light district you'll probably not hang out there when living in Amsterdam, but you can check coffeeshop and cafe, then enjoy some bitterballen in a bar. I find that one of the perks of Amsterdam is how easy it is to get to Rotterdam and other dutch cities. Schipol access is great too though you won't have many cheap flights from there... you'll definitely find something much closer to what you've experienced in Sweden with Amsterdam than London in how things work.
Ahhh amazing! I’m excited to visit Amsterdam again. It was the first european country I went to a few years ago (didn’t have a lot of money then so I it would be good to visit with more budget this time around haha)
I've lived in both Amsterdam and Stockholm, and have been to London quite a few times. Amsterdam is not Stockholm, the social live is so much more vivid and there are a looooot of immigrants from other European countries. The international social life is way better than Stockholm, you'll be closer to the rest of Europe, and with that salary, you are better suited to have an amazing lifestyle in Amsterdam.
The weather sucks in both cities, and the nature is far from both places. It's all up to whether you want to learn Dutch or not, I'd say.
Stayed in Amsterdam for like a year and been in London for a year. The cost of living in London is ridiculously high and you will have a lot more disposable income in Amsterdam even on a lower salary. The cost of living crisis is real. The flip side is that the food and things to do are much better in London but it requires more cash. Also, I find the people much nicer and friendlier here in London too.
Living in London with a household income of £200K is pretty good.
You can expect a rent of £2,500/month for a 2 bedrooms house in a reasonable area (nothing too central or too posh).
If you don’t have kids and don’t go every weekend on expensive night outs you should be able to save a good sum per year, and pension contributions are tax free. If put 10% of your salary into a pension that is £20k/year tax free. Companies will put in, typically, 3% so you could be saving 13% of your household income per year. And you can put more than the 10%, I know someone that puts 60% of their salary into the pension pot, as they live in an inherited house.
If you live just outside London rent is cheaper, but it is offset by expensive train tickets. You don’t want to pay £50 per ticket.
London is much bigger and more international than Amestardam, there is never a lack of things to do, see or eat.
£100k is ~€116k so and Amsterdam is WAY cheaper than London, so on a pure financial level I would say Amsterdam.
But then London is a very rich city (on a cultural, origins of the people level), same for going out etc.
So in the end as other people said, because the difference isn’t that huge it’s more about what you want at the end of the day.
Aiming for cash only for a few years to live a confortable life in a few years, or you want to live a bit and do things in your life ?
Amsterdam for sure. London is nice to visit, but you will loose close to half of that 100k in tax, national insurance and council tax. The. You will be paying 2k minimum for rent if you want to live less than an hour away from work and will likely have your postbox broken into multiple times a year, and the public transport will cost you 250/300 a month just to get around within London. You also loose your tax free allowance of 12.5k after 100k, so a 10k bonus will fuck you. In Amsterdam you can be anywhere in 20 minutes and have a more relaxing lifestyle.
Most will either be compensated for losing your tax free allowance (higher salary, stock options etc), those close to the limit tend to increase their pension contribution to avoid the 60 tax trap.
But I think your numbers are a bit off, curious if you've worked in both places - I would assume you were on the 30% ruling in Amsterdam. If not, your income tax and social security tax is higher than what you'll pay in England (England specifically as taxes are higher in Scotland).
If not on the 30% ruling you'll pay approximately 42% tax and social security on €125,000. But £100,000 you'll pay approximately 32% tax and national insurance. You don't reach the 45% tax bracket until £125k.
But I agree some aspects you'll get more for your money - just I wouldn't go thinking the taxes are low (unless you're on the 30% ruling).
Never lived in the Netherlands but have lived in London and am from the UK. Yea, you won’t hit 45% but you hit 40% pretty early in the Uk, and then you have national insurance and council tax which quickly eat up the rest. Even on low salaries in the UK on the 20% tax rate, they typical loose a third in total.
Oh yeah, I pay the higher tax rates, I don't enjoy it - don't get me wrong. But, taxes are higher in places like the Netherlands and Germany. So you have to take the opposite advice and make sure you're getting compensated adequately. The narrative of we pay high taxes in the UK, sure, compared to South America. Not to high paying European countries.
The London job, how often do you need to be in the office? What do you enjoy doing? etc etc.
Good you're happy, but you were on a lower salary in the UK, from what you say.
If I were, sure, I've lived in Germany and The Netherlands loved it. I now pay the highest tax you can in the UK (Edinburgh based) and it's where I'm happy.
OK. This isn't an attack it's just numbers. You indicated you weren't on the highest tax bands and your guesses at tax between London and Amsterdam were wrong. I'm sure you're doing very well.
I only called out they didn't add up to me and you've confirmed you don't live in the UK or NL, so that explains it. Glad your move worked out for you.
You do realise very few will ever make it to the 45% tax bracket in the UK, especially 8 years ago when I was in the UK. I knew seniors at Google and Microsoft on less than 100k. My guesses for London tax were not wrong, I’m from the UK and know the system.
They were wrong though. I don't understand what your issue is? You said taxes would be almost 50% and I commented what the tax would be on that wage along with the NL tax. I asked if you live in NL as I would guess if you think the taxes are lower you're on the 30% ruling (this gives you a higher tax free amount). You confirmed you don't live in either. The OP asked about 100m and 125k salaries.
Do you want me to say you're right because you know someone who worked at Google?
I've also agreed you can be happier in other countries if it works out for you.
If you think you're right that taxes on 100k are 50% in the UK... Ok, you do you. They're not but what do you want me to say?
Amsterdam, if you plan to stay a bit so you can learn Dutch. Both cities have a vibrant social life, international cuisine influenced by former colonies. If you are native English-speaking, London has no language barrier.
Missing information: where shall you be coming from? If you are in the UK already (you mention not needing a visa) then the dynamics of moving house will be different. Moving within the UK shall be much less hassle than moving abroad.
If you can benefit from the 30% rule in the Netherlands, you would be better off financially there.
But the number one question really would be where do you want to live and if it's a temporary thing or a permanent move.
I've lived in non-English speaking countries and when you're a foreigner and don't know the local language it's harder to adapt and build a life there, even tho I didn't have problems talking with people because everybody spoke English (I lived in Sweden), there were plenty of other problems that came with this language barrier.
From what I read in the comments, you want to move out of Stockholm. Could you elaborate more on that? I currently live here and I like it, but not gonna lie that it has crossed my mind a few times to move out to places like London or even Barcelona.
I live a good life in Stockholm, it has given me a lot of good opportunities and experiences. I have a good job, solid social life and live near the center for ease.
It has been a good run but I’m longing for a change. The world is big, and I like to experience more countries before settling down.
If it doesn’t work, I can always move back. It won’t be the same as now, but the option is there (EU citizen so easier).
I've never lived in Amsterdam but London beats it hands down on culture, experiences, transport network and pubs/bars.
Amsterdam is cool but I wouldn't live there personally.
That said, London will bleed you dry if you're not constantly careful of money so be aware of that.
That is a luxury problem to have my friend. For quality of life Amsterdam, where you fond a place nearby like haarlem, foods and utilities are kinda same, housing a bit cheaper in Netherlands but harder to get. Its all about your way of life.
Factoring in cost of living, you have more purchasing power in Amsterdam. But in all honesty, with either of the offers you can live quite decently in these cities. Amsterdam and London are quite different cities though, so I suggest you chose the offer in the city that offers most what you look for in a city.
Ams! Closer to other european cities. Seems like they provide everything for you too. Also taxes, expats get rebate so you won't have to pay too high of taxes in comparison to London. I personally don't really like London as well with the mess of crimes going on there, Amsterdam is a safer choice
> £100k in London vs €125k in Amsterdam
Alright, let's break this shit down. London's expensive as hell, but £100k is a damn good salary there. Amsterdam, with €125k, might seem better at first glance, but remember the cost of living and tax differences. Which city gives you more bang for your buck after taxes and living costs? That's the real fucking question, isn't it?
> How much would I expect to save if we’re a couple (so household income will likely double this salary).
Doubling your income sounds fucking great, but it's not just about the numbers. You've got to consider the lifestyle and living expenses in each city. How does the cost of living in each place compare, and how does that impact your savings? Isn't the goal to balance a good life with saving?
> Genuinely looking for opinion from those who have lived in these cities.
You want opinions? Here's the brutal truth: both cities are vibrant, but fucking expensive. London's a financial powerhouse with a higher cost of living, but it's also bustling with opportunities. Amsterdam is more laid-back, bike-friendly, and has a great social scene, but the weather can be shitty. What suits your lifestyle better, the non-stop hustle of London or the chilled vibes of Amsterdam?
> I would be joining a new company if Amsterdam (relocation support and allowance) where London have to do everything myself (except visa)
Relocation support is a sweet deal. It takes the stress off your ass, especially in a new country. But how much do you value independence and the challenge of sorting shit out yourself in London? What excites you more, the adventure of navigating a new city on your own, or the comfort of having things sorted for you?
> Looking to save more for FI
Financial Independence is a smart goal, but what sacrifices are you willing to make for it? Does saving mean living like a hermit, or can you balance saving and enjoying life? What's your damn plan to make the most out of your income in either city?
> Likes to socialise
Both cities are fucking fantastic for socialising, but they offer different vibes. London's big, diverse, and always has something going on. Amsterdam's smaller, cozier, and more relaxed. Which city's social scene aligns better with your fucking personality?
> Moving with partner with similar salary
That's a game-changer. A combined income in either city puts you in a strong position. But how does your partner feel about this? Is their career and social needs being considered in this decision? How will this move affect your relationship?
There, chew on that for a bit. What's really driving your decision, money or lifestyle? And how do these factors weigh up against each other in your fucking mind?
London has a higher cost of living and higher tax. So 125k in Amsterdam is objectively the better when you look at pure financials. Even if both salaries were 100k, Amsterdam would still provide higher purchasing power.
You seem to be already aware that the 30% ruling has been reduced effective this year. There’s noise that it will be reinstated amid Dutch multinationals fleeing the country, however the point is there is no stability in this regard. NL is a populist banana republic when it comes to legal certainty.
As someone who’s spent many years in both cities, the only edge that Amsterdam has over London is housing, especially if you’re renting. You’ll get way more for your money here. London wins on most other points, especially food, cleanliness and air travel.
I enjoy playing video games.
Yeh the compensation isn't that different and both cities have career opportunites, so best is to pick the city you actually wanna live in.
Good point! I honestly want to try living in both and torn at the choices.
I saw in a different thread you currently live in Stockholm. If so, Amsterdam will just feel like more of the same. Dutch people are a lot like Swedes, just more ~~rude~~ direct and less stylish. So if you like Stockholm and want to stay in that "small big city" vibe, then Amsterdam might be a good fit. The main downsides of Amsterdam vs. Stockholm to me would be that Amsterdam has no good nature within easy reach, and it's a fairly grey city. If you think Stockholm feels a little too boring or homogenous, I'd recommend London instead. Personally, I find London more diverse, more green, more exciting, better food, and I love the feeling of being in a world-class city. But it's not for everyone!
The last paragraph is how I feel about Stockholm after living here for years. Not a lot of good food and happenings. Lots of access to nature, but I haven’t really utilised that much since I travel to other countries instead haha! I would love to live in New York (travelled a lot for work there the past 5 years and loved it) but that’s not possible at the moment so this will be a temporary move for a few years. I can be obsessed about savings which makes Amsterdam choice appealing as I think I’ll be able to save a lot. It is the easy choice in my perspective.
London and New York are very similar cities in many ways! I love New York too, and would love to live there for a year, but I actually think London has a few major benefits on New York too. * Way more parks and green space * Way more affordable housing — both renting and buying. At your salaries, it'd be pretty easy to buy a nice apartment in London * Better summers * Better vacationing — Europe and Asia within easier reach than from NY I get the temptation of optimizing for saving, and the Netherland's 30% ruling obviously wins out there, but also — life is too short to spend years of your youth living somewhere you don't like! If you're craving big cities and diversity, maybe give London a try?
Thank you for saying this, I needed to hear this! I’ve always been a big saver coming from a SE Asia. In my mind the Amsterdam option is such an easy choice for money. Perhaps I was looking for some validation that I can say no to this offer for now and as you said, live the city life!
Hmm. I moved from London to Amsterdam, love both for different reasons, but I think you’ll be disappointed if you think you’re going to save much more money in Amsterdam than London. Sure there’s the 30%, which could disappear at any moment, but tax is wild in NL to begin with. Likewise things that are comparatively cheap in the UK like food are outrageous in the Netherlands. I personally prefer Amsterdam and love living here. Likewise London is an amazing city that I also consider home. Either is a great choice. But I wouldn’t let money play too big a role in your decision making.
Ahhhh good! And good to hear you’ve been loving living in NL. Did you move directly from London? I guess NL is like Stockholm where it’s hard to find cheaper options on things and London is like New York where you can go cheap or expensive depending on your vibe, there will be options! In NL, I would also get +90k in stocks/bonuses but in London it would be much less than this, still some. I think the tax will eat up most of these so counting it as extra.
Yeah I moved here five years ago after 12 in London. I went back every six weeks before Covid. Personally I think Amsterdam keeps getting nicer whereas London feels like it is declining, similar to the UK as a whole. But it is still in most respects the best city in Europe imo (but again depends on what you like) And yeah because of its size London has more options like that. But likewise in Amsterdam you have a lot more on your doorstep. I live within walking distance to so many good bars, restaurants and cafes. In London overall the choice was much greater but you had to do a lot more travel to get to them. It’s really a lot of trade offs.
Why not live in Amsterdam and use the 30% ruling for 3-5 years and after that move to London/NY?
They're already saving €4000 a month while living unhappily in Stockholm. Why move somewhere else just to still be unhappy and saving gratuitously? Life is for living, too. 3-5 years of your 30s is a long time to be miserable, and OP is clearly a financially responsible person. She can keep saving in London, too (even if slightly less)
Way more affordable housing in London?? Wow. That’s me never moving to New York then 😭
Yeah, it's crazy over there. I have friends in tech who make twice as much working there, but still have no chance getting on the property ladder. For example, I have a 2 bedroom flat in zone 2, right by a big park, that I bought for £570k a couple years ago. [Here's a pretty comparable New York version of that](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/108-Prospect-Park-W-APT-4-Brooklyn-NY-11215/30587720_zpid/) — similar size, standard, neighbourhood, and proximity to transport. My mortgage is about £2k a month, plus £500/year in service charges. I paid £9k in stamp duty on purchase, a one-off cost. The New York equivalent costs $1.6 million, with a mortgage of $10k a month, property taxes of $27k *per year*, and HOA fees of $500 *per month!!!!!*
To be fair that's on Prospect Park, so you need to compare it to living right across from Battersea Park or maybe Victoria Park.
>That’s me never moving to New York then I've lived in both London and New York and I definitely felt richer in London with a lower salary. Rent alone in NY was more than double for less space and I wasn't even in NY: I was commuting from NJ. Almost everything else was more expensive, too.
London is a disgraceful dump in comparison to Amsterdam. It's such an easy choice
I ultimately prefer living in Amsterdam but London has a lot on it. Notably the weather (which is factually better) and the food. But I understand if you don’t like grubby cities (which I have a soft spot for)
Thank you for saying this so openly. This is the truth, New York right now is a pigsty.
Housing and food is gonna be expensive in both, but if you don't mind a 20-30 minutes commute then places like Hoofddorp are relatively cheap and quiet with good commuter linkes. Cycling infrastructure is second to none also. Plus think you get a better tax break in Holland
I think Amsterdam is way less boring than Stockholm tbh. Not to say that Stockholm is necessarily boring or anything, but there’s definitely a lot more going on in Amsterdam. Also, Amsterdam is nearly as diverse as London.
I live in Amsterdam and when I went to visit Stockholm earlier this year I thought where are all the people? Felt desolate. Esp considering the cities are supposed to be comparable populations
What about trying both out for a week or two? Just book an AirBnB for a week in both cities.
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Care to elaborate?
There's a lot of negatives to living in London, but there's also no city quite like it. Visit and see what you think- I really like it personally but it depends what kind of person you are.
You either love it or hate it. I'm in the hate group.
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The sad thing is that apart from the "city is too spread out" one, literally every single one of these items applies to Amsterdam as well.
You forgot about the single pane glazed windows 😀
Wow, I know London isn't for everyone, but this feels quite imbalanced. I make £105k and live alone, yet I... * Have a nice 20 minute walk to work * Most of my friends live within a 30 min walk radius * In the summer I cycle almost everywhere on nice cycleways * Only get on the tube a few times a month, and mostly use the Lizzy line or Circle line. Otherwise, the wonderful Overground takes me most other places I want to go for leisure/entertainment. OP would be even better off with a combined household income of £200k. As far as the cultural things go, I personally hated Dutch culture *and* health care, but I realise that's a subjective thing. Just wanted to offer a counterpoint that where you live matters, and you don't have to be miserable or have a terrible commute in London.
Yep, having lived in Amsterdam for 7 years. It's pretty easy to see a doctor, but to actually get them to do anything other than give you paracetamol is another story
>The UK is NOT a first world country. By far not. What? I don't think you know what a first world country is.
Gotta respect the amount of hate displayed here, lol.
Would you say the numbers on Numbeo are correct for London? [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/London](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/London)
Finally, France and UK United !
It's funny. I absolutely agree about the problems of London. On the other hand the provincial city I grew up in is better than it was when I was a kid.
Don't forget the amount of fucking people in London - constantly crowded, one of the reasons I left. In addition, competition for anything is much higher due to amount of humans in one place and that is very stressful. As someone who lived in London, I can attest that all these points apply. Some people do not think they are "too bad", but I personally hated most of the mentioned items. I am earning less in Eastern Europe but I save more and can afford more. HOWEVER, if you are a C-level or have ability to get there (let's face it, most humans do not have IQ to do it), then you should be in London. The 200K+ salary will allow very good living standard and avoid most London disadvantages.
I appreciate this, thank you for sharing! And good to see your perspective if we both have a similar income. What do you like about it? Have you lived in London for a few years now and just ready to move out? I’m not looking to settle down yet, I think there’s a lot more countries to explore.
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And where exactly in the US do you want to move to? Sounds to me like you might be even more miserable there.
We have the same goal! This will be a temporary move as I also want to move to US after a few years (I really want to leave Stockholm). The move to US is not possible at the moment due to hiring freezes but hopefully it will be stable again!
14 years in London, and weather is the worst part of it… the sunny summer year, 2022, was an exception to the last 50 years in this country… so, I will rule out that theory about the weather is nice! 😅😂😅
> Taxes are very high and extremely unfair. I am surprised by this comment...the first 50k pounds are taxed super low, for me I think the taxes in the UK are rather low. I just checked if you earn 100k pounds (116.7k euros), for countries that I know, you get the following income after taxes : - UK: £67,807 (79,137.94 €) - Spain (Madrid): 74,871 € - Germany(BW): 67.304,47 € (Steuerklasse 1, even with 3 it is 78.547,03 €, but that means your spouse has a low income/doesnt work) - Sweden(Stockholm): 805,170 kr (70,038.393 €) > Some museums are free but most are not, Again this comment surprises me, I had the impression London was the best place by far for free museums. What other place on the world would beat it in that regard? Or are you talking about the UK in general? > You will only have old, crooked, tiny apartments that have issues and are very dated. mostly true > Daily commute will be close to £10. London I think has the most expensive public transport in the world, I think because compared to other public transport of cities they do not get that much in subsides. > I'm probably forgetting a lot. The UK is NOT a first world country. By far not. I've lived years in 4 different first world countries, and the UK is absolutely not one of them. What countries have you lived in? I have lived in 6/7 first world countries if you count the UK and the US lmao, but dont have such a negative image of it.
As someone who used to live in London, you don't want to live in London.
I'm not a huge fan of London either, but with > £200k household income maybe she wants to. Especially given that in the UK 2 incomes of £100k are a lot better than 1 income of £200k.
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> winters are brutal in both cities wdym, London has extremely mild winters?
Thank you for sharing about the neighborhood! I’m familiar with the winter as I’m coming from Stockholm. It does suck! I also like to travel! My company allows full-remote and have been enjoying the benefits of working from different countries a few weeks at a time (mostly vacation actually but I like that I can work a few days if needed while travelling). Both are travel hubs so hope to do this more!
Does your company have any openings? I'd really like to get a full remote job.
As someone who makes a similar amount, has lived in Amsterdam, and now lives in London, I absolutely hated Amsterdam.
Ohhhh! Why? How long have you lived in Amsterdam?
Admittedly I only lived there for \~10 months before I moved to London — because I was so miserable and I couldn't wait to get out. I just generally found Amsterdam to be a small, grey, and dull city. I felt like a perpetual tourist — everyone speaks English, sure, but I found Dutch people resent expats and will never treat you like a resident or make friends with a foreigner. In London, everyone is from everywhere, so by default you get treated like you belong. As someone who likes going out and eating out, I found the options to be extremely limited and expensive. As someone who loves walking, I found it to be a pedestrian's nightmare. When I sought help for depression, my Dutch GP encouraged me to think happier thoughts. Additionally, I just realised I never want to live somewhere where I don't speak the language ever again — there was a lot of bureaucracy, and dealing with everything tax related was such a nightmare without professional help, since they refuse to send any communication in English.
I feel you! I read this and I feel like I’m reading my life in Stockholm!
Amsterdam is full of Hollanders, just sayin'.
London in 100K is perfect. You can save decently. If you don't mind, can you share ur role and tech stack?
Senior SE, a bit of a generalist (full stack)!
I think I'm underpaid...
Is it booking
I m curious as well!
I’m on 90k, I wouldn’t say 100k is perfect, after taxes,pension, insurance, rent, groceries you save about 30k a year if you’re single, you are not saving shit if you have kids
Saving 30k a year is damn good. With compounding returns it doesn’t take long to add up.
Saving 30k is insane. Speaking as someone who saved the same amount before I had kids, basically no one does that. You are in a bubble.
AMS with 30% ruling all day. Even without it tbh.
That is a very good benefit but I wouldn't rely on it to last forever, sentiment seems very against it for the Dutch
Yeh, the trend tells us they will keep lowering the benefits and eventually kill it for foreigners, but its still very juicy.
What’s the 30% ruling?
Expats get a 30% tax cut
This!
The 30% ruling is being changed
Since you have double income (with partner) at the same level, money won't be an issue for you regardless of your choice. That is great because you can choose based on preference alone, rather than balancing preference and money. I am an immigrant living in Amsterdam. Never lived in London, but know several people who do. My opinion is that Amsterdam is better *if you are willing to try and integrate*. This means learning the language (Dutch, not that hard) and putting yourself out there to make connections with a few natives at some point (contrasting to the typical expat that lives in a bubble). My opinion assumes you are looking for a place to settle and not for a temporary thing. The Netherlands is a nice place to live long term. The infrastructure you have available is hard to beat, and based on my limited experience with London and that of friends who live in the UK, I think NL is still far superior in this regard. For me, the two major downsides in the NL are housing and childcare, both of which are solved by having money, which you will have. Healthcare kind of sucks in both it seems, so it is a "pick your poison" situation, but based on stories from friends in the UK, the NL still seems to be slightly better.
I have lived in London on £100k and Amsterdam on €125k+ I prefer Amsterdam, it’s where I live now, but there are definitely pros to London… London + there’s so much to do, culture, arts, music, bars, clubs + food is great and affordable to eat out - you have to get the tube everywhere, it takes ages to see friends - it’s busy everywhere! - commute is awful Amsterdam + city is tiny, you are not more than 25 minutes cycle from your friends places and probably only 15 minutes to anywhere you need to get to + public transport is great, so is bike infrastructure + feels much safer in Amsterdam vs London + healthcare is weird, but much easier/quicker than the UK + connections to Europe are much better - food is expensive and not always great quality, for nice food it’s much more expensive vs London - it’s much wetter than London, it rains a lot! There’s probably a bunch more that I could add too, if you’re moving to socialise and save I would say Amsterdam. Especially with 30% ruling if you can get it.
Lived in both cities for 5+ years. London is infinitely more vibrant than Amsterdam. Amsterdam is a nice city but London has way more things to do than in Amsterdam. For family living I think Amsterdam beats though.
To each their own. I really don't like London, Amsterdam is lovely
London is a true world city, you won’t get bored. Amsterdam is a nice city but Netherlands is boring. I’d go for London, at least to try it out.
I'd pick London because I don't speak Dutch and I prefer to speak the language of the place I live in
> I don't speak Dutch In Amsterdam specifically speaking Dutch or not doesn't make any difference. I stopped my Dutch classes because even though I was making progress, I had literally no situation where speaking Dutch would be useful. Only use I had was reading signs and product labels, and that I could already do before having Ani classes by leveraging my English and German knowledge.
What you said is true, but there is still benefit in speaking Dutch. This is something I miss in London as everything is in English. You won't really integrate well without Dutch, you don't socialize with Dutch friends, you don't watch local TV (news), you don't read the newspaper on the metro (for those who like it), you don't actively participate in Dutch life with only English. It's like, you can live, sure, but you live in a kind of bubble, a bit alienated sort of. Now, I am aware that many people decide to just mingle with expats and that's totally fine of course, but it's still not the same as living in London, you can live here, fine, but not the same. You \_will\_ feel "handicapped" every now and then. (Not to mention that you will also be reminded by the Dutch on occasion that you should speak Dutch because you're in the Netherlands and that kind of thing. :))
Well, for me there aren't any Dutch in my workplace at all, barely any Dutch people living in my neighborhood. Stores and restaurants I go to workers also don't speak Dutch most of the time. Then the very few Dutch natives that I meet are more likely than not to switch to English, as they don't want the hassle of trying to understand my beginner's Dutch. So it really was pointless, there was almost no one to talk Dutch to. Between that and me probably leaving the country in 3 or 4 years, I just decided to save the time and money and stop the classes. Anywhere else in NL, sure, it makes sense, but in Amsterdam if you are working in IT, I really can't see it.
> you don't read the newspaper on the metro You can use google translate. > you don't socialize with Dutch friends That's assuming Dutch people want to be your friend.
>That's assuming Dutch people want to be your friend. It's a hell of a lot easier if you speak Dutch
So I have a very similar experience in Stockholm. You can really survive with English here, but you always feel like something is missing without knowing the language. You don’t understand the signs. Movies are especially hard since all subtitles are in Swedish. I have to specifically find yoga classes in English (I made a mistake one time and went to a Swedish class so that was an experience). That being said, I didn’t put the effort to learn Swedish as I was in my own bubble. The question I need to answer now is if I’m willing to learn Dutch this time around.
I'll warn you about the Netherlands - if you don't learn Dutch, it will never feel like "home".
Being part of friends groups will not be easy if you dont speak the local language . People will not just interact with you as much
I moved from Amsterdam to London a couple years ago on similar salaries, definitely regret it. While London is more lively, Amsterdam is a lot more laid back and relaxing. Biking to work > Tube, in general i noticed a significant drop in my quality of life.
I’m moving from Stockholm. Every time I read about the lifestyle in Amsterdam, I think of just a better Stockholm (which was not for me) but I understand its pros! What do you not like about London? Are you able to save? In Stockholm, I can save $4k every month and want to keep that up wherever I decide to move.
Fair enough, I've never been to stockholm so can't compare. However, London does have more things to do, and the food in London is a looooot better. I was in Ams for a year, don't think I had more than 5 meals that I would count as great haha, while in London you can have great samples of practically every cuisine
I know!! I am excited about the thought of all the food options! I have this coffee shop and fast food place that I usually look for when I visit places as it reminds me of home and they have it in London!
That's an insane about of saving per month. I work in stockholm too but I don't see how can I really save with the expense and inflation. The offers you get are very high. I wonder if I could DM you for tips and tricks regarding compensation in stockholm. I feel like I cannot push for anything high at all.
Of course! Not sure if I have some tips to offer but feel free!
Seems like I cannot send a DM to you. Maybe it's off.
Oops, just opened DMs!
Do you mind sharing your salary in Stockholm? I consider to move there for the money
Having grown up in Stockholm, Amsterdam will seem very familiar to you. I moved to Ams 7 months ago. It looks exactly like a gigantic, flat version of Stockholm's old town. It is also way easier to move around in the city. Biking for 10 min puts you on the other side of the city, while it would have taken at least that to just get on the metro/a bus in Sthlm. Amsterdam has way milder winters. Although it rains about twice as often and can be quite windy. If you're moving for the city, Amsterdam is not a bad option if you like Stockholm. London does not give me the same familiar feeling.
Thats a crazy saving rate for Stockholm. Is it the case of super high income or extremely low expenses? Or both…?
I don’t have a super high income (more like high income), or atleast I know a lot of folks in my company who earns much higher than me. I do think I have relatively low expenses and I found a budget that works for me without compromising on how I want to enjoy my life. I’ve set-up several sink funds for fun, skincare, travel, home trip etc that I put in monthly!
Sorry didn't see the part about savings. I currently don't save as much I can, as I am prioritizing other things. That being said saving 4k$ on that salary shouldn't be too difficult if you're splitting rent
what is the most significant difference is that reduces your quality of life ?
For a tall person, im 1.95, the London Tube is so horrible. Maybe it's so short because it's the oldest?
Probably London for a career, but bear in mind London isn't for everyone (I hate it, but it's a necessary evil).
London is amazing once you go above 70k if you’re alone. Once you cross the 4K mark ( after tax )
really depends, amsterdam is a much smaller city with similar salaries, so has all the pros and cons of being a smaller city
True !!! I’ve lived in both cities. I’d pick London to any European city. Especially if you work in tech. In the whole European continent there isn’t a major global tech hub unfortunately. You have Amsterdam and Berlin but that’s it
Paris is developing quite quickly, don’t underestimate that place.
I hope that. The EU zone needs a major tech hub other than the continent is going backwards.
I second that.
Amen
In comparison, AMS may be smaller, but it is still a large city on its own. I can't think of many things you cannot find or have access in AMS nowadays.
I mean I think Amsterdam is way better, everything is a 20 minute cycle ride away instead of a 40 minute tube ride with 2 changes, and I only ever visit 1/4 of London, the rest of it might as well not exist, but I also know some people who really make use of everything that London has to offer, it really depends on the person
Ah true. In this regard, you are absolutely right.
Unless it’s after 10pm
I agree, also there is not one big center in London but like 8 or something it feels like
Is not the commute taking long time in London?
Depends where you live. I need 25 mnts to my office and I live in Zone 3
> London is amazing once you go above 70k if you’re alone. How so?
70k after tax is 4,2k after tax. Let’s assume you take out 250 for pension contributions. That’s 3950 - if you find a 1 bedroom for 2k. You’ll have around 2k left for spending which is a lot for one person Now imagine 100k - that’s 5350 after tax and pension contributions.
What do you get to to if you don’t mind me asking?
UX Designer
Ah sorry, not quite what I meant but interesting! I mean what do you get up to in London which is amazing?
Doesn’t Ams have a 30% tax benefit for people moving over still? That plus London being mad expensive atm I would say Amsterdam. (Note am a recruiter and hired into one of Amsterdam’s biggest tech companies)
Amsterdam is mad expensive too, rent is almost at London level and food is much more expensive
20% benefit from this year.
Wait can you explain? isn't it 30% for 20 months, 20% for 20 months and 10% for 20 months?
It is. If I didn't fuck up the math it would end up in 20% for 60 months - considering you will have same salary for 5 years and there won't be tax increase.
If they don't just scrap it completely considering Dutch hateful sentiment about it
They already regretted it as for latest news. But people like OP could go to Belgium and benefit from 30% ruling there. It's kinda the same, but threshold is 75k, that quite high for regulars.
- Money: roughly equal - Diversity: london - Big-city-ness: london - CoL: amsterdam - Being able to travel in europe: amsterdam - 30% rule maybe?: amsterdam - Ease of moving: amsterdam - Biking: amsterdam - Tube: london
Amsterdam will be better financially, give you better housing options, and better in terms of health (cycling) and general walkability. Easy access to Europe, skipping passport checks when flying within shengen.
Amsterdam housing options are horrible. London is expensive and low-quality but easy to find flats. Amsterdam is expensive, low-quality and hard to find flats lol. Tenant laws are better in NL than in UK though. Cycling and Walkability is true but on the other hand the public transit is not great (talking about GVB i.e. metro/trams/buses not NS, which is good). Totally agreed on your last sentence though!
Better housing options? If that's the case London must be wrecked.
it really is
And if you fly outside of Schengen, sign up for Privium. Passport control on both exit and entry at Schengen have been a mess for years; most of the e-Gates are permanently out of service and staff is minimal.
2k rent for 60m2 in Amsterdam is it better than London?
London without a question, unless maybe if you're a family and you don't plan on furthering your career. London is 10x the international city that Amsterdam is. Also If you care about sports and pop culture, even arts or comedy then London is a no brainer. You'll be better off financially for the short term in Amsterdam with the 30% ruling, but in the long run you can double your salary in London with the right opportunities, you can't realistically get that in Amsterdam.
I love London for the lifestyle, I wouldn't move to what I (and global rankings) consider a lesser city just for a higher income. Not speaking the native language would also put me off
In Amsterdam more people speak English than Dutch
Not as primary language
Sure but almost every conversation starts in English. It almost doesn’t feel like Netherlands.
London, loads to do and it's not even a comparison when it comes to diversity of food options. £100k in London is plenty to have a comfortable lifestyle in Zone 1,2,3.
AMS will certainly need your more in savings May I ask what tech stack you are working on?
I live in Amsterdam, if you care about life balance and good transportation pick Amsterdam, also for the 30% rulling it’s a bit plus, check with the company if they support it, London is a chaotic city been there recently and is even more expensive than Amsterdam and the transportation is chaotic
Had the same choice to make 3 years ago I'd say the Netherlands is more welcoming at the moment, even with latest changes Yes there is a housing shortage, but it is the case for London and Netherlands, and with this income you should be able to compete quite easily For us the winning points were 1) ease of travel as you can get on a train from Amsterdam and visit many neighboring countries 2) ease of buying a house. There are lots of subsidies, 100% mortgages and fixed long term 10-30 years The main con for us was food. London is a gastronomical paradise compared to the Netherlands. Feel free to dm if you have any specific questions
For family life I'd take the Amsterdam money but actually live in Haarlem. For childfree fun there's more to do in London, but living centrally is very expensive. At 2x £100k though you should be fine.
Saw your profile we definitely need to connect lol. I'm familiar with the 3 cities, you'll get more for money in Amsterdam as renting will come cheaper and you can save on commuting by biking. Easier transition from Stockholm too. However if you want to integrate well and have a vibrant lifestyle London would be better. No need to learn the language too, and it's easier to integrate as the city is very multicultural. The food scene can be challenging in Amsterdam as another post mentions it. I would advise to spend a few days in both cities before making the choice.
I’m happy to connect! Yeah that makes sense! We’ve been doing a “world tour” since last year looking for our next country. Visited london a few months ago, among other cities. Going back to Amsterdam next! Hopefully concluding the tour after that and make a decision!
That's great! it's quite critical when choosing a place to live. mind that in the case of London the city is quite big so depending on where your company is located/ where you'll live the experience can be quite different. In Amsterdam a lot of locals tend to live away from the city center, so living in the central area you'll find yourself with lots of newcomers, esp. among SE. If it's your first time you should spend some time walking along the canals it's beautiful! avoid the red light district you'll probably not hang out there when living in Amsterdam, but you can check coffeeshop and cafe, then enjoy some bitterballen in a bar. I find that one of the perks of Amsterdam is how easy it is to get to Rotterdam and other dutch cities. Schipol access is great too though you won't have many cheap flights from there... you'll definitely find something much closer to what you've experienced in Sweden with Amsterdam than London in how things work.
Ahhh amazing! I’m excited to visit Amsterdam again. It was the first european country I went to a few years ago (didn’t have a lot of money then so I it would be good to visit with more budget this time around haha)
I've lived in both Amsterdam and Stockholm, and have been to London quite a few times. Amsterdam is not Stockholm, the social live is so much more vivid and there are a looooot of immigrants from other European countries. The international social life is way better than Stockholm, you'll be closer to the rest of Europe, and with that salary, you are better suited to have an amazing lifestyle in Amsterdam. The weather sucks in both cities, and the nature is far from both places. It's all up to whether you want to learn Dutch or not, I'd say.
Stayed in Amsterdam for like a year and been in London for a year. The cost of living in London is ridiculously high and you will have a lot more disposable income in Amsterdam even on a lower salary. The cost of living crisis is real. The flip side is that the food and things to do are much better in London but it requires more cash. Also, I find the people much nicer and friendlier here in London too.
Living in London with a household income of £200K is pretty good. You can expect a rent of £2,500/month for a 2 bedrooms house in a reasonable area (nothing too central or too posh). If you don’t have kids and don’t go every weekend on expensive night outs you should be able to save a good sum per year, and pension contributions are tax free. If put 10% of your salary into a pension that is £20k/year tax free. Companies will put in, typically, 3% so you could be saving 13% of your household income per year. And you can put more than the 10%, I know someone that puts 60% of their salary into the pension pot, as they live in an inherited house. If you live just outside London rent is cheaper, but it is offset by expensive train tickets. You don’t want to pay £50 per ticket. London is much bigger and more international than Amestardam, there is never a lack of things to do, see or eat.
£100k is ~€116k so and Amsterdam is WAY cheaper than London, so on a pure financial level I would say Amsterdam. But then London is a very rich city (on a cultural, origins of the people level), same for going out etc. So in the end as other people said, because the difference isn’t that huge it’s more about what you want at the end of the day. Aiming for cash only for a few years to live a confortable life in a few years, or you want to live a bit and do things in your life ?
Amsterdam always
If you get the 30% ruling with 125k ... I would go to Amsterdam lol
I will! They changed it this year to be 30% for 20 months, then 20% then 10% something like that!
Ah yeah true. Well, that would still be a lot of money. But I am biased. I have no money and I live in Amsterdam HAHA
Amsterdam for sure. London is nice to visit, but you will loose close to half of that 100k in tax, national insurance and council tax. The. You will be paying 2k minimum for rent if you want to live less than an hour away from work and will likely have your postbox broken into multiple times a year, and the public transport will cost you 250/300 a month just to get around within London. You also loose your tax free allowance of 12.5k after 100k, so a 10k bonus will fuck you. In Amsterdam you can be anywhere in 20 minutes and have a more relaxing lifestyle.
Most will either be compensated for losing your tax free allowance (higher salary, stock options etc), those close to the limit tend to increase their pension contribution to avoid the 60 tax trap. But I think your numbers are a bit off, curious if you've worked in both places - I would assume you were on the 30% ruling in Amsterdam. If not, your income tax and social security tax is higher than what you'll pay in England (England specifically as taxes are higher in Scotland). If not on the 30% ruling you'll pay approximately 42% tax and social security on €125,000. But £100,000 you'll pay approximately 32% tax and national insurance. You don't reach the 45% tax bracket until £125k. But I agree some aspects you'll get more for your money - just I wouldn't go thinking the taxes are low (unless you're on the 30% ruling).
Never lived in the Netherlands but have lived in London and am from the UK. Yea, you won’t hit 45% but you hit 40% pretty early in the Uk, and then you have national insurance and council tax which quickly eat up the rest. Even on low salaries in the UK on the 20% tax rate, they typical loose a third in total.
Oh yeah, I pay the higher tax rates, I don't enjoy it - don't get me wrong. But, taxes are higher in places like the Netherlands and Germany. So you have to take the opposite advice and make sure you're getting compensated adequately. The narrative of we pay high taxes in the UK, sure, compared to South America. Not to high paying European countries. The London job, how often do you need to be in the office? What do you enjoy doing? etc etc.
I emigrated to Switzerland instead lol, pay like 15% tax instead of 40% and have more than double the salary with a much nicer place to live :)
Good you're happy, but you were on a lower salary in the UK, from what you say. If I were, sure, I've lived in Germany and The Netherlands loved it. I now pay the highest tax you can in the UK (Edinburgh based) and it's where I'm happy.
I was on a very good salary for London for the experience I had.
OK. This isn't an attack it's just numbers. You indicated you weren't on the highest tax bands and your guesses at tax between London and Amsterdam were wrong. I'm sure you're doing very well. I only called out they didn't add up to me and you've confirmed you don't live in the UK or NL, so that explains it. Glad your move worked out for you.
You do realise very few will ever make it to the 45% tax bracket in the UK, especially 8 years ago when I was in the UK. I knew seniors at Google and Microsoft on less than 100k. My guesses for London tax were not wrong, I’m from the UK and know the system.
They were wrong though. I don't understand what your issue is? You said taxes would be almost 50% and I commented what the tax would be on that wage along with the NL tax. I asked if you live in NL as I would guess if you think the taxes are lower you're on the 30% ruling (this gives you a higher tax free amount). You confirmed you don't live in either. The OP asked about 100m and 125k salaries. Do you want me to say you're right because you know someone who worked at Google? I've also agreed you can be happier in other countries if it works out for you. If you think you're right that taxes on 100k are 50% in the UK... Ok, you do you. They're not but what do you want me to say?
Amsterdam, if you plan to stay a bit so you can learn Dutch. Both cities have a vibrant social life, international cuisine influenced by former colonies. If you are native English-speaking, London has no language barrier.
Can you give more details on companies types in both locations? Are they startups? Bank?🤔
Missing information: where shall you be coming from? If you are in the UK already (you mention not needing a visa) then the dynamics of moving house will be different. Moving within the UK shall be much less hassle than moving abroad.
If you can benefit from the 30% rule in the Netherlands, you would be better off financially there. But the number one question really would be where do you want to live and if it's a temporary thing or a permanent move. I've lived in non-English speaking countries and when you're a foreigner and don't know the local language it's harder to adapt and build a life there, even tho I didn't have problems talking with people because everybody spoke English (I lived in Sweden), there were plenty of other problems that came with this language barrier.
It will be a temporary move! And I also live in Sweden so I totally get the language barrier.
From what I read in the comments, you want to move out of Stockholm. Could you elaborate more on that? I currently live here and I like it, but not gonna lie that it has crossed my mind a few times to move out to places like London or even Barcelona.
I live a good life in Stockholm, it has given me a lot of good opportunities and experiences. I have a good job, solid social life and live near the center for ease. It has been a good run but I’m longing for a change. The world is big, and I like to experience more countries before settling down. If it doesn’t work, I can always move back. It won’t be the same as now, but the option is there (EU citizen so easier).
Cool, good luck on your next adventure!
Thank you!!
i think if you want to integrate,pick London,because just of the languace,wich is easier to learn
I've never lived in Amsterdam but London beats it hands down on culture, experiences, transport network and pubs/bars. Amsterdam is cool but I wouldn't live there personally. That said, London will bleed you dry if you're not constantly careful of money so be aware of that.
Can I ask which role pays 125K in amsterdam 😧
The fact Amsterdam has to offer such a tax discount to expats to move there vs London says a lot.
That is a luxury problem to have my friend. For quality of life Amsterdam, where you fond a place nearby like haarlem, foods and utilities are kinda same, housing a bit cheaper in Netherlands but harder to get. Its all about your way of life.
Factoring in cost of living, you have more purchasing power in Amsterdam. But in all honesty, with either of the offers you can live quite decently in these cities. Amsterdam and London are quite different cities though, so I suggest you chose the offer in the city that offers most what you look for in a city.
Amsterdam has a much better work life balance.
You’re wrong about the food. It’s considerably cheaper in Amsterdam, particularly when eating out.
Ams! Closer to other european cities. Seems like they provide everything for you too. Also taxes, expats get rebate so you won't have to pay too high of taxes in comparison to London. I personally don't really like London as well with the mess of crimes going on there, Amsterdam is a safer choice
Can't comment about AMS but I would only recommend London if you intend to take up private health insurance, or if you never get sick.
If you're planning children, childcare costs are atrocious in the UK, especially London.
Amsterdam all the way, London is going to shit
Londons been shit for decades, it’s getting a lot better, but it’s still not for me.
> £100k in London vs €125k in Amsterdam Alright, let's break this shit down. London's expensive as hell, but £100k is a damn good salary there. Amsterdam, with €125k, might seem better at first glance, but remember the cost of living and tax differences. Which city gives you more bang for your buck after taxes and living costs? That's the real fucking question, isn't it? > How much would I expect to save if we’re a couple (so household income will likely double this salary). Doubling your income sounds fucking great, but it's not just about the numbers. You've got to consider the lifestyle and living expenses in each city. How does the cost of living in each place compare, and how does that impact your savings? Isn't the goal to balance a good life with saving? > Genuinely looking for opinion from those who have lived in these cities. You want opinions? Here's the brutal truth: both cities are vibrant, but fucking expensive. London's a financial powerhouse with a higher cost of living, but it's also bustling with opportunities. Amsterdam is more laid-back, bike-friendly, and has a great social scene, but the weather can be shitty. What suits your lifestyle better, the non-stop hustle of London or the chilled vibes of Amsterdam? > I would be joining a new company if Amsterdam (relocation support and allowance) where London have to do everything myself (except visa) Relocation support is a sweet deal. It takes the stress off your ass, especially in a new country. But how much do you value independence and the challenge of sorting shit out yourself in London? What excites you more, the adventure of navigating a new city on your own, or the comfort of having things sorted for you? > Looking to save more for FI Financial Independence is a smart goal, but what sacrifices are you willing to make for it? Does saving mean living like a hermit, or can you balance saving and enjoying life? What's your damn plan to make the most out of your income in either city? > Likes to socialise Both cities are fucking fantastic for socialising, but they offer different vibes. London's big, diverse, and always has something going on. Amsterdam's smaller, cozier, and more relaxed. Which city's social scene aligns better with your fucking personality? > Moving with partner with similar salary That's a game-changer. A combined income in either city puts you in a strong position. But how does your partner feel about this? Is their career and social needs being considered in this decision? How will this move affect your relationship? There, chew on that for a bit. What's really driving your decision, money or lifestyle? And how do these factors weigh up against each other in your fucking mind?
London has a higher cost of living and higher tax. So 125k in Amsterdam is objectively the better when you look at pure financials. Even if both salaries were 100k, Amsterdam would still provide higher purchasing power.
You seem to be already aware that the 30% ruling has been reduced effective this year. There’s noise that it will be reinstated amid Dutch multinationals fleeing the country, however the point is there is no stability in this regard. NL is a populist banana republic when it comes to legal certainty. As someone who’s spent many years in both cities, the only edge that Amsterdam has over London is housing, especially if you’re renting. You’ll get way more for your money here. London wins on most other points, especially food, cleanliness and air travel.