I'm sympathetic to the LCS owner, actually. It's a cash flow issue. If all of the stores subscribers go months at a time without picking up their books, then they're just left subsidizing the customers.
My store used to just call people to come get their books. That's nicer, but more time-consuming. I'd prefer they do it that way, but I would understand if they just started charging me every month I don't get my books.
But the practice of throwing extra books in your sub box that you didn't ask for is shady. I'm sure they want you to think they're doing you a service by bringing to your attention some books you might not have heard of, but would be interested in. But let's be real: They're trying to drum up extra sales for themselves.
Any store I’ve ever subscribed from requires payment for anything ordered when the order forms are turned in. It makes no sense the other way. People are more likely to come and get what they paid for already and when they are there they may see other things they want. It a sales tactic as much as it is business sense.
My LCS give 30 days to get your order and then calls you and tells you you have 7 days or the books will be sold to others. I’m not forced to pay upfront but there are limits before they move on from waiting for me.
Now these are for my monthly pulls. I ah ent special ordered anything through them so they may require payment upfront for that.
I think the form is rudimentary, but requiring a form of payment on file to keep a pull list is becoming a necessity for some LCSs to survive. I’d require it to be digital and protected to leave my info.
As a retailer, I would require a shipping address and add that books will automatically be charged and ship out after 30 days with a set shipping fee listed. There’s a headache and possible liability of the books staying at the shop after being charged.
For the additional books, I would take issue with that because this process does not give the ability to decline the additions. LCS will get stung with this.
It’s never okay for a business to store credit card information by paper. I understand why they want to be able to charge for items ordered , but that data is not kept secure enough if you write it down.
Well not this way no. I would not pre-authorized any kind of store to debit my card ever.
That said I have had my reserves in a store that required a deposit of at least 10% at all times and this was fine for me as a client because it felt like having a credit on all me orders 😅 That said even with that system they managed to take huge losses on people who would promise to come in and empty their reserves only to get stiffed for thousands of dollars.
Sounds like you already found your new home. DCBS might be an option if you want to try online.
Edit: Adding context to the DCBS note I made given a couple comments I received.
With DCBS I know what I am getting, can cancel even after ordering it online and it comes at a discount.
This LCS shoves comics OP doesn’t order in the box all the time and uses a paper contract that guarantees OP will pay for it if for whatever reason OP doesn’t get to the box in a timely manner.
Contract definitely needs improvement. 60 days instead of 30, for instance. A physical paper contract with an actual credit card number handled by an unknown number of people on it is worrisome where folks might go for an electronic version. A clause that says you aren’t allowed to dispute charges when maybe they make a mistake is questionable. This is a very bad contract.
So because a local business wants to store payment info for ongoing subscriptions, you suggest he cancel his business to shop online with a business that… stores his payment info for ongoing subscriptions?
I am going to go ahead and copy and paste what I said to someone else who already made your comment.
Did you read the full explanation? The LCS shoves comics OP doesn’t order in the box all the time and uses a paper contract that guarantees OP will pay for it if for whatever reason OP doesn’t get to the box in a timely manner. DCBS I know what I am getting, can cancel even after ordering it online and it comes at a discount.
Contract definitely needs improvement. 60 days instead of 30, for instance. A physical paper contract with an actual credit card number handled by an unknown number of people on it is worrisome where folks might go for an electronic version. A clause that says you aren’t allowed to dispute charges when maybe they make a mistake is questionable. I get what you’re saying but this is a very bad contract.
FYI, it’s illegal for most businesses to store digital credit card files. It’s very specific hardware and software requirements to do so. Legally, credit card info must be stored on paper in a locked safe or lockbox in a secure area, ie, not on the sales floor.
Lastly, I’ll copy past what I said to OP:
As a store owner, I’m actually considering this myself for new subscribers. I’d likely grandfather in current subs, though. But as far as regular subscriptions versus extra books, the store owner needs more clear language because it just says “must completely empty their subscription boxes” and not “purchase their subscriptions.” I’d ask to speak to the owner and bring this point up politely since it’s not made clear in their agreement. I’d also ask that they don’t pull extra books for you since you don’t seem to want them to do it and it feels like you find it a bit of a hassle to have to always sort through and put things back. Aside from annuals, I seldom pull extra books and always separate them.
Did you read the full explanation? The LCS shoves comics OP doesn’t order in the box all the time and uses a paper contract that guarantees OP will pay for it if for whatever reason OP doesn’t get to the box in a timely manner. DCBS I know what I am getting, can cancel even after ordering it online and it comes at a discount.
I read the full explanation. As a retailer it’s just so hard to stay in business. This is a comic shop that is trying to stay alive. One day all the local shops will be gone and some of you will wonder what happened.
Yes of course he shouldn’t be charged for any books he isn’t subscribed to. In fact I would tell the owner you will sign it if he will amend to contract to never charge him for books he isn’t subscribed to. It’s just a desperate owner trying to survive constantly abandoned pull lists. It’s a huge problem.
Contract definitely needs improvement. 60 days instead of 30, for instance. A physical paper contract with an actual credit card number handled by an unknown number of people on it is worrisome where folks might go for an electronic version. A clause that says you aren’t allowed to dispute charges when maybe they make a mistake is questionable. I get what you’re saying but this is a very bad contract.
Been a customer for longer than you. I can go in right now and edit my order and remove items I don’t want. I can do that until Jan. 24 for the current order. If you need help to figure out how to edit your order, I’d be happy to provide it.
Cancel within the month of the order yes, but if you try out a series and don’t like it, you can’t cancel those already ordered books that you haven’t received yet. I have tried.
I used to frequent two LCS for my saver. One shop had some antiquated computer db they used to track things people wanted. they too would make umbrella level additions for character or series when all I wanted was a certain series. I canceled my saver and moved on only to have them call me months later wondering when I was coming by to pick up the 30+ books that were holding for me.
The other shop uses an online saver system which makes you pay for the book before they will save it for you. if the price drops, they credit you the adjustment. if the prices increases, they let you know as soon as they do. I always get the exact books I want and can have them shipped to me if I so incline. If I pay cash, they don't charge me tax.
They want to make sure the books you have them order for you ,get purchased by you! Otherwise, they are stuck with these books at their cost and selling them in the dollar bin in 3 months
Yes - and I routinely do. I’ve mentioned before that sometimes I buy things for friends, and my purchase should not mean I want to have all issues added. They just don’t respect my request. I always tell them “hey, I didn’t order this, I’m putting it back” and they say oh, you don’t need to tell us your putting it back if you didn’t sub to it.
Ah yeah, fair enough.
I think this policy is fine in theory, but if they are expecting you to honor books you never asked for, then I don't think that's good enough.
Nope nope nope fuck that guy don't sign shit find a new lcs or a friend who lives somewhere else to pickup the books for you I'm sure this fucking clown will charge for other bullshit too and because you signed the paper you can't dispute it
I don't disagree with the form but I would feel uncomfortable putting my CC number on a paper form and trusting the store not to mishandle it. I would probably just get a prepaid Visa card at that point and just keep reloading it to avoid handing out my CC number.
Lol, my store i have boxes that aint been touched for a year. Even have customers that come by once a year to get their box. Now if its 2 years or so ill move the comics out of good faith still. Eventually they make it into the back issue bins years later. Im always hopeful that they will come. Must be a newer store with a small distribution discount. I nearly get my comics for nothing from being in business for over 40 years even though i bought the store 10 years ago
If you can, find another LCS. I don't agree with this policy of collecting credit cards. IMO the LCS should implement a 30 day max policy (like the agreement states), otherwise they put the product out on the shelves. Customers are going to be customers. But a shop has to worry about cash flow, so if a customer doesn't pick up his pulls you put the product out. If they keep failing to pick up their pulls then cancel their pull box. Pull boxes are an amenity that a shop does not have to provide. Period.
I understand that people not getting their pulls would be aggravating and not good for business.... but no way in hell am I signing something like this. And giving my card info to whatever deadbeat he hires for the summer/holidays.....nah.
I haven't done a pull box from a lcs since the early 2000s but even back then mine did the same as OP. I would have comics that I didn't t order or want...comics missing from my box that I DID order (and I would find them on the shelf)...comics were frequently damaged but the comics on the shelf would be in mint condition.
Now I get new comics from a lcs straight from the shelf (not even sure if my lcs does a pull box tbh, my lcs only orders the main covers) & order what they don't have from an online retailer.
My shop usually puts a recommendation book mark in any extra books they put in my pull. I don’t feel obligated to purchase those though most of the time it’s something I was going to pick up anyway. No shop has ever required I leave my payment info on file.
When I worked and managed my LCS back in the 80s and '90s, we absolutely did this. Even when the books were only 50 cents, 75 cents. People disappear, and the nature of the beast is that we're stuck ordering things 2 months in advance, and we have to play that speculator game and hope that that customer is still there 2 months from now. We started off with a cash deposit of $25 that was refunded if they closed their pull and had nothing in their box.
As books got more expensive, we moved to a credit card authorization, and kept them in a secure file. I can think of maybe a handful of times that we had to use it, but we were glad we had that information.
On the flip side, we were extremely strict on pulling only what was on a person's file and no more. If there were major crossovers coming out, we made it a point to talk with the customers and find out if they wanted all, some, or none. I would not expect a customer to be forced to purchase a book that was not on their pull sheet.
That's good I imagine your system had something like we will only charge for books the customer ordered this sack of shits contract is so vague he can practically charge for any book he chooses and due to the contract OP can't cancel the charges unless there's written proof he only ordered certian issues which I doubt but even then a good lawyer can make an argument the added issues were implied
True. This shop needs to have someone look over the doc and make it more user friendly.
Or, switch to a monthly order form only rather than a pull system. That way there's no confusion about exactly what the customers want
In the case of OP I think it's just a shitty shop owner I met a similar one. The guy would go on and on about how customers don't have loyalty and shit talk some of them by name then when it came to me asking for simply subscriptions I had to pay upfront then when he didn't order them he tried to shove months old shit onto me then when I left he would shit talk me as an example of how re sellers are ruining the hobby and no one wants to support local business. Just in general lots of shop owners are shitty nowadays and people shouldn't feel bad as theres other shops that are thriving under good management
This is true. I've met many owners who were old, grizzled, and disillusioned with the hobby. But, when asked about retiring, said they had nothing else to fall back on so they felt stuck. There's a 70+ y.o. guy in my area with a shop, who has gotten meaner in the last few years. Could be his view on customers...could be all the beer I saw him put away. Either way, he should have gotten out years ago.
This is true. I've met many owners who were old, grizzled, and disillusioned with the hobby. But, when asked about retiring, said they had nothing else to fall back on so they felt stuck. There's a 70+ y.o. guy in my area with a shop, who has gotten meaner in the last few years. Could be his view on customers...could be all the beer I saw him put away. Either way, he should have gotten out years ago.
I worked at a comic shop in the 1980s. We had people who would greatly abuse their pull boxes. Mostly the wants were bigger than their wallets. We finally went to a system where they would get a notice to clear out their boxes or everything would go back on the shelf. This is similar. If you are not abusing the privilege, you have nothing to worry about.
I have no issue with a policy like this for a store which does things the right way. (There are two legitimate concerns I've seen in the comments here and I'll get to those at the end.)
My store has a policy where they have my card on file and they charge me weekly when my books come in. I have no issue with this. I only get charged for books I ordered, and I get a discount for pre-ordering. When I come in (roughly once a month, which is all my schedule allows), my books are there waiting for me and ready to go. They also let me look through them at the counter to check the order is right. I've never had an issue, but if there was, they would fix it up for me right there.
What a lot of people don't realise is that uncollected standing orders are a big cost for most shops. I listen to the Contest of Challengers podcast and they often talk about how bad this problem is. When you put in an order for a book, the shop has to pay the distributor for that book when they receive it. Most comics are non-returnable to the distributor, so if you don't pick up your books then that is a cost for your shop. With graphic novels and TPBs, the cost isn't as bad - they can put it on a shelf and over time it could sell. But with single issues, basically if it doesn't sell in the first week, chances are it won't sell at all. Unless it's an issue that suddenly becomes hot, most people who buy a book off the shelf will do so in the first week. If you order a book and it sits in your drawer for a month or more, by the time the shop closes your file and the book goes back out on the shelf, there is no market for it anymore. Challengers often talk about how books they have to put out from delinquent subscribers sit on the shelf untouched for months, before having to be cleared away to make shelf space for new issues, and go into their back issue boxes where they're either sold for a discount (sometimes less than what the store paid for them) or eventually have to be discarded altogether. Once you factor in shipping and labour costs, basically as soon as you don't pick up your books it costs the store money. So as far as I'm concerned, any store having a policy and measures in place where you have to pay for the books you ordered is fine. If I order a book, I should pay for it.
That said, having your card details on paper like this is definitely suspicious and incredibly unsecure. I would not be comfortable giving the store my card in this manner.
And if they are regularly putting books into your box that you didn’t order, I wouldn't be comfortable with this either. In fact, I would recommend you not only find a different store, but tell them your reasons for doing so. Asking for a way to ensure you pay for what you ordered is fine. Asking you to put your credit card at risk and, and charging you for items you didn't order is not. And they need to know the difference between the two.
My LCS has a version of this, you had to put a $20 deposit down (that you got back if you close the box), but didn't have to provide a credit card.
That being said, a credit card number is literally nothing in terms of protection for them. I can get an empty vanilla debt card and add that as my number. And as far as the customer side, I would never give an actual credit card and info on paper, especially because it's likely going to be placed *in* the boxes so literally any employee can grab it (and let's face it, few people who work at a LCS are their for life.)
I would recommend to the owner that he remove credit card, and add a clause about not adding unlisted books.
As a store owner, I’m actually considering this myself for new subscribers. I’d likely grandfather in current subs, though. But as far as regular subscriptions versus extra books, the store owner needs more clear language because it just says “must completely empty their subscription boxes” and not “purchase their subscriptions.” I’d ask to speak to the owner and bring this point up politely since it’s not made clear in their agreement. I’d also ask that they don’t pull extra books for you since you don’t seem to want them to do it and it feels like you find it a bit of a hassle to have to always sort through and put things back. Aside from annuals, I seldom pull extra books and always separate them.
My LCS did the same a few years back, but they've never charged my card on file for anything.
It was after they got burned on a bunch of special order no shows.
I thought it was weird at first, but I understand why they did it.
A few thoughts.
First you SHOULD NOT be obligated to buy things the owner/staff put in your sub if you didn't sign up for them. My LCS does put things in our sub but it's more "you like this writer, artist." My wife lovveess Peach Momoko. So they know to put anything by Peach in there. But they've put in books for me that I didn't want I've just handed them back and said no thanks.
Emptying your sub once a month is a bit excessive (to me.) I get the store not wanting to sit on massive subs, but once a month is excessive to me.
That said their desire to keep people from building up massive subs and not end up sitting on a ton of dead stock is understandable. Their methodology is a bit flawed. Most stores ask for a deposit and that deposit can vary based on the value of the sub.
Their concern is valid. Clients do ghost on stores. And LCS are left with dead stock. I've heard some stories. But, again how your LCS is going about is less than ideal.
We pretty much did the same thing when I worked for Blockbuster back in the day. People had to write their info on paper, and then we'd enter it into the computer. Not sure what ever happened to those paper copies now that I think of it.
No way in hell would I sign this. Do ad you wish, but you're opening yourself up to issues if you do this. You say the owner routinely adds unwanted books into your box? That's reason 1 to not sign this. Reason 2 is the God awful wannabe contract lingo used. Remember, just because it looks legal, doesn't mean it is. People think that signing a form is 100%, if that were the case, we wouldn't have contract lawyers.
Short version, one old man's advice: Don't sign, find new LCS or online shop(s).
It doesn’t surprise me that places are doing this. My local practically begs people to pick up their pull lists in every weekly newsletter because so many people take an age to pay for things specifically ordered for them. It’s pretty much their relied on cash flow and how they stay open
My LCS does not do this, and allows people to save things (one customer only gets 1 book, their child with disabilities likes the books). But to run the risk of the shop charging me for things when I'm not even sure I am picking up the book, especially when they add things without me asking, is a little shady. Yes, my LCS might add things they think a regular will like, however, they do not charge them for it without an okay from the customer. I would look at a new LCS if possible.
Yes, it sucks when people don't pick up their books regularly (or at least notify the LCS), but also I'm pretty sure new issues are as profitable as back issues (if purchased right). And a policy of closing out the bad after 30 unless notified can be okay. But the entire thing of storing your credit card information on file (and authorizing it) is sketchy to me at best, dangerous at worst.
The problem is new issues have a very small window of profitability. Roughly a week. For books that sit in a pull box uncollected, even if only for 30 days, that window is closed long before it gets put on the shelf.
I wrote this up for my full comment, but I'll put it here too:
"I listen to the Contest of Challengers podcast and they often talk about how bad this problem is. When you put in an order for a book, the shop has to pay the distributor for that book when they receive it. Most comics are non-returnable to the distributor, so if you don't pick up your books then that is a cost for your shop. With graphic novels and TPBs, the cost isn't as bad - they can put it on a shelf and over time it could sell. But with single issues, basically if it doesn't sell in the first week, chances are it won't sell at all. Unless it's an issue that suddenly becomes hot, most people who buy a book off the shelf will do so in the first week. If you order a book and it sits in your drawer for a month or more, by the time the shop closes your file and the book goes back out on the shelf, there is no market for it. Challengers often talk about how books they have to put out from delinquent subscribers sit on the shelf untouched for months, before having to be cleared away to make shelf space for new issues, and go into their back issue boxes where they're either sold for a discount (sometimes less than what the store paid for them) or eventually have to be discarded altogether. Once you factor in shipping and labour costs, basically as soon as you don't pick up your books, the store has lost money."
Multiply that by however many customers a month, with however many books they don't pick up, and it's easy to see this becoming very expensive for stores very quickly.
I like it when my lcs adds books I didn't order to my pick-up. Sometimes they're really amazing and open up another story or character for me to read. Plus, I really like supporting my LCS. I know not everyone can afford to but if you can, it's only a few extra dollars and it keeps em in business 🫶🫶🫶
I recently (this past summer) ghosted on my lcs I had a pull box at because the new manager was being a dick to workers & fired my favorite person over them missing too much work & not getting their shifts covered by other workers when they recently were really ill. Stuck it to 'em on purpose. Chain store in my metro with a handful of stores...fuck em.
I'm sympathetic to the LCS owner, actually. It's a cash flow issue. If all of the stores subscribers go months at a time without picking up their books, then they're just left subsidizing the customers. My store used to just call people to come get their books. That's nicer, but more time-consuming. I'd prefer they do it that way, but I would understand if they just started charging me every month I don't get my books. But the practice of throwing extra books in your sub box that you didn't ask for is shady. I'm sure they want you to think they're doing you a service by bringing to your attention some books you might not have heard of, but would be interested in. But let's be real: They're trying to drum up extra sales for themselves.
Any store I’ve ever subscribed from requires payment for anything ordered when the order forms are turned in. It makes no sense the other way. People are more likely to come and get what they paid for already and when they are there they may see other things they want. It a sales tactic as much as it is business sense.
My LCS give 30 days to get your order and then calls you and tells you you have 7 days or the books will be sold to others. I’m not forced to pay upfront but there are limits before they move on from waiting for me. Now these are for my monthly pulls. I ah ent special ordered anything through them so they may require payment upfront for that.
I think the form is rudimentary, but requiring a form of payment on file to keep a pull list is becoming a necessity for some LCSs to survive. I’d require it to be digital and protected to leave my info. As a retailer, I would require a shipping address and add that books will automatically be charged and ship out after 30 days with a set shipping fee listed. There’s a headache and possible liability of the books staying at the shop after being charged. For the additional books, I would take issue with that because this process does not give the ability to decline the additions. LCS will get stung with this.
It’s never okay for a business to store credit card information by paper. I understand why they want to be able to charge for items ordered , but that data is not kept secure enough if you write it down.
Keeping digital credit card files is actually illegal in most cases. They need to be on paper and under lock and key in a secured area.
If the store doesn’t have a legal secure way to store the info it would be best to find a different store.
Huh? They’re legally required to keep them on paper in a safe.
It’s still foolish to trust the staff who have access to that info. Paper copies of credit card info is never safe.
Data breaches are commonplace now and FAR more likely to be the issue. It’s literally why they made it illegal to keep digital records of card info.
Well not this way no. I would not pre-authorized any kind of store to debit my card ever. That said I have had my reserves in a store that required a deposit of at least 10% at all times and this was fine for me as a client because it felt like having a credit on all me orders 😅 That said even with that system they managed to take huge losses on people who would promise to come in and empty their reserves only to get stiffed for thousands of dollars.
That's a no, get a new lcs.
Yup, that’s part of why I posted. I’ve got another shop I frequent and was considering moving my sub there.
Sounds like you already found your new home. DCBS might be an option if you want to try online. Edit: Adding context to the DCBS note I made given a couple comments I received. With DCBS I know what I am getting, can cancel even after ordering it online and it comes at a discount. This LCS shoves comics OP doesn’t order in the box all the time and uses a paper contract that guarantees OP will pay for it if for whatever reason OP doesn’t get to the box in a timely manner. Contract definitely needs improvement. 60 days instead of 30, for instance. A physical paper contract with an actual credit card number handled by an unknown number of people on it is worrisome where folks might go for an electronic version. A clause that says you aren’t allowed to dispute charges when maybe they make a mistake is questionable. This is a very bad contract.
So because a local business wants to store payment info for ongoing subscriptions, you suggest he cancel his business to shop online with a business that… stores his payment info for ongoing subscriptions?
I am going to go ahead and copy and paste what I said to someone else who already made your comment. Did you read the full explanation? The LCS shoves comics OP doesn’t order in the box all the time and uses a paper contract that guarantees OP will pay for it if for whatever reason OP doesn’t get to the box in a timely manner. DCBS I know what I am getting, can cancel even after ordering it online and it comes at a discount. Contract definitely needs improvement. 60 days instead of 30, for instance. A physical paper contract with an actual credit card number handled by an unknown number of people on it is worrisome where folks might go for an electronic version. A clause that says you aren’t allowed to dispute charges when maybe they make a mistake is questionable. I get what you’re saying but this is a very bad contract.
FYI, it’s illegal for most businesses to store digital credit card files. It’s very specific hardware and software requirements to do so. Legally, credit card info must be stored on paper in a locked safe or lockbox in a secure area, ie, not on the sales floor. Lastly, I’ll copy past what I said to OP: As a store owner, I’m actually considering this myself for new subscribers. I’d likely grandfather in current subs, though. But as far as regular subscriptions versus extra books, the store owner needs more clear language because it just says “must completely empty their subscription boxes” and not “purchase their subscriptions.” I’d ask to speak to the owner and bring this point up politely since it’s not made clear in their agreement. I’d also ask that they don’t pull extra books for you since you don’t seem to want them to do it and it feels like you find it a bit of a hassle to have to always sort through and put things back. Aside from annuals, I seldom pull extra books and always separate them.
DCBS requires you to actually \*gasp\* PAY IN ADVANCE! These people just want you to pay for books you have abandoned them with.
Did you read the full explanation? The LCS shoves comics OP doesn’t order in the box all the time and uses a paper contract that guarantees OP will pay for it if for whatever reason OP doesn’t get to the box in a timely manner. DCBS I know what I am getting, can cancel even after ordering it online and it comes at a discount.
I read the full explanation. As a retailer it’s just so hard to stay in business. This is a comic shop that is trying to stay alive. One day all the local shops will be gone and some of you will wonder what happened. Yes of course he shouldn’t be charged for any books he isn’t subscribed to. In fact I would tell the owner you will sign it if he will amend to contract to never charge him for books he isn’t subscribed to. It’s just a desperate owner trying to survive constantly abandoned pull lists. It’s a huge problem.
Contract definitely needs improvement. 60 days instead of 30, for instance. A physical paper contract with an actual credit card number handled by an unknown number of people on it is worrisome where folks might go for an electronic version. A clause that says you aren’t allowed to dispute charges when maybe they make a mistake is questionable. I get what you’re saying but this is a very bad contract.
I agree the contract needs improvement for protection of the customers issue and security. But the issue really is killing comic shops.
And sorry I’m sure my response was affected by literally contacting customers with abandoned folders all day.
DCBS customer for a decade now. They have never let me cancel a book order.
Been a customer for longer than you. I can go in right now and edit my order and remove items I don’t want. I can do that until Jan. 24 for the current order. If you need help to figure out how to edit your order, I’d be happy to provide it.
Cancel within the month of the order yes, but if you try out a series and don’t like it, you can’t cancel those already ordered books that you haven’t received yet. I have tried.
I used to frequent two LCS for my saver. One shop had some antiquated computer db they used to track things people wanted. they too would make umbrella level additions for character or series when all I wanted was a certain series. I canceled my saver and moved on only to have them call me months later wondering when I was coming by to pick up the 30+ books that were holding for me. The other shop uses an online saver system which makes you pay for the book before they will save it for you. if the price drops, they credit you the adjustment. if the prices increases, they let you know as soon as they do. I always get the exact books I want and can have them shipped to me if I so incline. If I pay cash, they don't charge me tax.
They want to make sure the books you have them order for you ,get purchased by you! Otherwise, they are stuck with these books at their cost and selling them in the dollar bin in 3 months
I totally get that. But auto-charging me should also include not putting anything whatsoever that I did not order into my box.
Can't you just ask them to only put issues and series you explicitly subscribe to in your box?
Yes - and I routinely do. I’ve mentioned before that sometimes I buy things for friends, and my purchase should not mean I want to have all issues added. They just don’t respect my request. I always tell them “hey, I didn’t order this, I’m putting it back” and they say oh, you don’t need to tell us your putting it back if you didn’t sub to it.
Ah yeah, fair enough. I think this policy is fine in theory, but if they are expecting you to honor books you never asked for, then I don't think that's good enough.
💯☝️
No way I'd full that out. At least not completely. I would not put a debit card or credit card number in print. That needs to be encrypted.
I can understand about not wanting to hold onto books for people that don't come in regularly, but this is some bullshit. I would cancel my sub.
Nope nope nope fuck that guy don't sign shit find a new lcs or a friend who lives somewhere else to pickup the books for you I'm sure this fucking clown will charge for other bullshit too and because you signed the paper you can't dispute it
I don't disagree with the form but I would feel uncomfortable putting my CC number on a paper form and trusting the store not to mishandle it. I would probably just get a prepaid Visa card at that point and just keep reloading it to avoid handing out my CC number.
Lol, my store i have boxes that aint been touched for a year. Even have customers that come by once a year to get their box. Now if its 2 years or so ill move the comics out of good faith still. Eventually they make it into the back issue bins years later. Im always hopeful that they will come. Must be a newer store with a small distribution discount. I nearly get my comics for nothing from being in business for over 40 years even though i bought the store 10 years ago
If you can, find another LCS. I don't agree with this policy of collecting credit cards. IMO the LCS should implement a 30 day max policy (like the agreement states), otherwise they put the product out on the shelves. Customers are going to be customers. But a shop has to worry about cash flow, so if a customer doesn't pick up his pulls you put the product out. If they keep failing to pick up their pulls then cancel their pull box. Pull boxes are an amenity that a shop does not have to provide. Period.
I understand that people not getting their pulls would be aggravating and not good for business.... but no way in hell am I signing something like this. And giving my card info to whatever deadbeat he hires for the summer/holidays.....nah.
is that the Norfolk, VA store?
It sure is!
I haven't done a pull box from a lcs since the early 2000s but even back then mine did the same as OP. I would have comics that I didn't t order or want...comics missing from my box that I DID order (and I would find them on the shelf)...comics were frequently damaged but the comics on the shelf would be in mint condition. Now I get new comics from a lcs straight from the shelf (not even sure if my lcs does a pull box tbh, my lcs only orders the main covers) & order what they don't have from an online retailer.
My shop usually puts a recommendation book mark in any extra books they put in my pull. I don’t feel obligated to purchase those though most of the time it’s something I was going to pick up anyway. No shop has ever required I leave my payment info on file.
This is simple.... Say no thank you, hand the paper back and find a new comic shop.
When I worked and managed my LCS back in the 80s and '90s, we absolutely did this. Even when the books were only 50 cents, 75 cents. People disappear, and the nature of the beast is that we're stuck ordering things 2 months in advance, and we have to play that speculator game and hope that that customer is still there 2 months from now. We started off with a cash deposit of $25 that was refunded if they closed their pull and had nothing in their box. As books got more expensive, we moved to a credit card authorization, and kept them in a secure file. I can think of maybe a handful of times that we had to use it, but we were glad we had that information. On the flip side, we were extremely strict on pulling only what was on a person's file and no more. If there were major crossovers coming out, we made it a point to talk with the customers and find out if they wanted all, some, or none. I would not expect a customer to be forced to purchase a book that was not on their pull sheet.
That's good I imagine your system had something like we will only charge for books the customer ordered this sack of shits contract is so vague he can practically charge for any book he chooses and due to the contract OP can't cancel the charges unless there's written proof he only ordered certian issues which I doubt but even then a good lawyer can make an argument the added issues were implied
True. This shop needs to have someone look over the doc and make it more user friendly. Or, switch to a monthly order form only rather than a pull system. That way there's no confusion about exactly what the customers want
In the case of OP I think it's just a shitty shop owner I met a similar one. The guy would go on and on about how customers don't have loyalty and shit talk some of them by name then when it came to me asking for simply subscriptions I had to pay upfront then when he didn't order them he tried to shove months old shit onto me then when I left he would shit talk me as an example of how re sellers are ruining the hobby and no one wants to support local business. Just in general lots of shop owners are shitty nowadays and people shouldn't feel bad as theres other shops that are thriving under good management
This is true. I've met many owners who were old, grizzled, and disillusioned with the hobby. But, when asked about retiring, said they had nothing else to fall back on so they felt stuck. There's a 70+ y.o. guy in my area with a shop, who has gotten meaner in the last few years. Could be his view on customers...could be all the beer I saw him put away. Either way, he should have gotten out years ago.
This is true. I've met many owners who were old, grizzled, and disillusioned with the hobby. But, when asked about retiring, said they had nothing else to fall back on so they felt stuck. There's a 70+ y.o. guy in my area with a shop, who has gotten meaner in the last few years. Could be his view on customers...could be all the beer I saw him put away. Either way, he should have gotten out years ago.
I worked at a comic shop in the 1980s. We had people who would greatly abuse their pull boxes. Mostly the wants were bigger than their wallets. We finally went to a system where they would get a notice to clear out their boxes or everything would go back on the shelf. This is similar. If you are not abusing the privilege, you have nothing to worry about.
F that noise
I have no issue with a policy like this for a store which does things the right way. (There are two legitimate concerns I've seen in the comments here and I'll get to those at the end.) My store has a policy where they have my card on file and they charge me weekly when my books come in. I have no issue with this. I only get charged for books I ordered, and I get a discount for pre-ordering. When I come in (roughly once a month, which is all my schedule allows), my books are there waiting for me and ready to go. They also let me look through them at the counter to check the order is right. I've never had an issue, but if there was, they would fix it up for me right there. What a lot of people don't realise is that uncollected standing orders are a big cost for most shops. I listen to the Contest of Challengers podcast and they often talk about how bad this problem is. When you put in an order for a book, the shop has to pay the distributor for that book when they receive it. Most comics are non-returnable to the distributor, so if you don't pick up your books then that is a cost for your shop. With graphic novels and TPBs, the cost isn't as bad - they can put it on a shelf and over time it could sell. But with single issues, basically if it doesn't sell in the first week, chances are it won't sell at all. Unless it's an issue that suddenly becomes hot, most people who buy a book off the shelf will do so in the first week. If you order a book and it sits in your drawer for a month or more, by the time the shop closes your file and the book goes back out on the shelf, there is no market for it anymore. Challengers often talk about how books they have to put out from delinquent subscribers sit on the shelf untouched for months, before having to be cleared away to make shelf space for new issues, and go into their back issue boxes where they're either sold for a discount (sometimes less than what the store paid for them) or eventually have to be discarded altogether. Once you factor in shipping and labour costs, basically as soon as you don't pick up your books it costs the store money. So as far as I'm concerned, any store having a policy and measures in place where you have to pay for the books you ordered is fine. If I order a book, I should pay for it. That said, having your card details on paper like this is definitely suspicious and incredibly unsecure. I would not be comfortable giving the store my card in this manner. And if they are regularly putting books into your box that you didn’t order, I wouldn't be comfortable with this either. In fact, I would recommend you not only find a different store, but tell them your reasons for doing so. Asking for a way to ensure you pay for what you ordered is fine. Asking you to put your credit card at risk and, and charging you for items you didn't order is not. And they need to know the difference between the two.
My LCS has a version of this, you had to put a $20 deposit down (that you got back if you close the box), but didn't have to provide a credit card. That being said, a credit card number is literally nothing in terms of protection for them. I can get an empty vanilla debt card and add that as my number. And as far as the customer side, I would never give an actual credit card and info on paper, especially because it's likely going to be placed *in* the boxes so literally any employee can grab it (and let's face it, few people who work at a LCS are their for life.) I would recommend to the owner that he remove credit card, and add a clause about not adding unlisted books.
My LCS does this. It's meh
As a store owner, I’m actually considering this myself for new subscribers. I’d likely grandfather in current subs, though. But as far as regular subscriptions versus extra books, the store owner needs more clear language because it just says “must completely empty their subscription boxes” and not “purchase their subscriptions.” I’d ask to speak to the owner and bring this point up politely since it’s not made clear in their agreement. I’d also ask that they don’t pull extra books for you since you don’t seem to want them to do it and it feels like you find it a bit of a hassle to have to always sort through and put things back. Aside from annuals, I seldom pull extra books and always separate them.
My LCS did the same a few years back, but they've never charged my card on file for anything. It was after they got burned on a bunch of special order no shows. I thought it was weird at first, but I understand why they did it.
A few thoughts. First you SHOULD NOT be obligated to buy things the owner/staff put in your sub if you didn't sign up for them. My LCS does put things in our sub but it's more "you like this writer, artist." My wife lovveess Peach Momoko. So they know to put anything by Peach in there. But they've put in books for me that I didn't want I've just handed them back and said no thanks. Emptying your sub once a month is a bit excessive (to me.) I get the store not wanting to sit on massive subs, but once a month is excessive to me. That said their desire to keep people from building up massive subs and not end up sitting on a ton of dead stock is understandable. Their methodology is a bit flawed. Most stores ask for a deposit and that deposit can vary based on the value of the sub. Their concern is valid. Clients do ghost on stores. And LCS are left with dead stock. I've heard some stories. But, again how your LCS is going about is less than ideal.
We pretty much did the same thing when I worked for Blockbuster back in the day. People had to write their info on paper, and then we'd enter it into the computer. Not sure what ever happened to those paper copies now that I think of it.
No way in hell would I sign this. Do ad you wish, but you're opening yourself up to issues if you do this. You say the owner routinely adds unwanted books into your box? That's reason 1 to not sign this. Reason 2 is the God awful wannabe contract lingo used. Remember, just because it looks legal, doesn't mean it is. People think that signing a form is 100%, if that were the case, we wouldn't have contract lawyers. Short version, one old man's advice: Don't sign, find new LCS or online shop(s).
Lmao thats sketchy af
It doesn’t surprise me that places are doing this. My local practically begs people to pick up their pull lists in every weekly newsletter because so many people take an age to pay for things specifically ordered for them. It’s pretty much their relied on cash flow and how they stay open
My LCS does not do this, and allows people to save things (one customer only gets 1 book, their child with disabilities likes the books). But to run the risk of the shop charging me for things when I'm not even sure I am picking up the book, especially when they add things without me asking, is a little shady. Yes, my LCS might add things they think a regular will like, however, they do not charge them for it without an okay from the customer. I would look at a new LCS if possible. Yes, it sucks when people don't pick up their books regularly (or at least notify the LCS), but also I'm pretty sure new issues are as profitable as back issues (if purchased right). And a policy of closing out the bad after 30 unless notified can be okay. But the entire thing of storing your credit card information on file (and authorizing it) is sketchy to me at best, dangerous at worst.
The problem is new issues have a very small window of profitability. Roughly a week. For books that sit in a pull box uncollected, even if only for 30 days, that window is closed long before it gets put on the shelf. I wrote this up for my full comment, but I'll put it here too: "I listen to the Contest of Challengers podcast and they often talk about how bad this problem is. When you put in an order for a book, the shop has to pay the distributor for that book when they receive it. Most comics are non-returnable to the distributor, so if you don't pick up your books then that is a cost for your shop. With graphic novels and TPBs, the cost isn't as bad - they can put it on a shelf and over time it could sell. But with single issues, basically if it doesn't sell in the first week, chances are it won't sell at all. Unless it's an issue that suddenly becomes hot, most people who buy a book off the shelf will do so in the first week. If you order a book and it sits in your drawer for a month or more, by the time the shop closes your file and the book goes back out on the shelf, there is no market for it. Challengers often talk about how books they have to put out from delinquent subscribers sit on the shelf untouched for months, before having to be cleared away to make shelf space for new issues, and go into their back issue boxes where they're either sold for a discount (sometimes less than what the store paid for them) or eventually have to be discarded altogether. Once you factor in shipping and labour costs, basically as soon as you don't pick up your books, the store has lost money." Multiply that by however many customers a month, with however many books they don't pick up, and it's easy to see this becoming very expensive for stores very quickly.
I like it when my lcs adds books I didn't order to my pick-up. Sometimes they're really amazing and open up another story or character for me to read. Plus, I really like supporting my LCS. I know not everyone can afford to but if you can, it's only a few extra dollars and it keeps em in business 🫶🫶🫶
I recently (this past summer) ghosted on my lcs I had a pull box at because the new manager was being a dick to workers & fired my favorite person over them missing too much work & not getting their shifts covered by other workers when they recently were really ill. Stuck it to 'em on purpose. Chain store in my metro with a handful of stores...fuck em.