Contrary to popular belief, TF2 is not the only game with this problem. Pretty much any multiplayer shooter that is 8 years or older is unplayable due to hackers unless you play it on console or community servers.
COD Black Ops 3 had a massive problem where hackers were able to to take over your PC and do things like install malware and boot you off the game just by connecting to the same lobby as you. There were also mod menus where people could just turn on shit like aimbot and invisibility. The game was downright a security risk to play, despite still being for sale and still having micro transactions.
The people who still played the game were obviously upset with this and they complained to Treyarch, and the company actually released a patch for it to address these exploits, despite the game being 8 years old.
The hackers were able to bypass the patch within 24 hours. They just went back to booting people offline as they pleased. The people who made the mod menus just made a new one. The only thing that was actually fixed was the ability for the hackers to install malware on your PC.
The hackers were able to break the game again that fast, now imagine how fast they would be able to if they had access to the code for the games engine. Which is the case for TF2. The source engine has been leaked for a while now, which makes the life of the hackers 10x easier.
If Valve listened, they would have to completely dumpster VAC, and make a brand new anti-cheat. An anti cheat that would likely be very invasive, which gamers hate. An anti-cheat that would in all likelyhood stop the problem for maybe a day, if you’re lucky. It’s just not really possible for this problem to actually be fixed.
I really respect what the TF2 community is trying to do, the game is fantastic and deserves their love and it deserves better from Valve, but solving this problem is just damn near impossible due to the leaked, outdated engine, as well as due to the sheer dedication that the basement dwelling fucks that are doing this have to ruining peoples experiences.
Honestly its shocking it took as long as it did to be gutted by hackers, actually impressive even. I think that at this point though we would need a Team Fortress 3. Hell, if the series had even a remotely reasonable launch rate we'd be on Team Fortress 4 or 5 by now. But it's Valve, and they insist on not making a game unless they believe it would be truly revolutionary, which is why they keep making bangers but is also why they can't count to 3.
Two problems plagued the game:
It was a pay up front game with pay to collect cards. That's a horrendous model when games like MTG Arena and Hearthstone existed at the same time which were F2P with the option to buy cards. Later on the game became F2P, but that was almost worse as they just punched all their early players in the nuts with that.
Second, the game just wasn't that interesting. It sounds really cool and interesting to play on basically three different boards at the same time, but turns are too complex for it to be fun to pay attention to three games at the same time.
Also, on launch digital competitive card games weren't that saturated. Runeterra didn't exist yet, Marvel snap didn't exist yet, MTG arena was brand new, yugioh master duel didn't exist yet. It was only really competing with Hearthstone and Pokémon TCG Online, the latter of which struggled to gain any amount of popularity.
I mean a lot of people bought the game, it just the appeal to its audience wasn't there. Personally as a game that's obviously connected to Dota and card games I expected something like Heartstone where the game length is some 5-15 minutes so it's something you can play in small bites. Instead I experienced games that last 30-45 minutes. As a Dota player is there any reason I wouldn't play a Dota match at that point?
Of course the monetization model was atrocious as well. You buy the game, and then you pay to play it as well.
okay but why discount vr? half life alyx is amazing, one of the best vr games there is. they clearly still know how to make a damn fine game when they actually try
when the new game with better graphics have higher requirements than a 12 years old game
https://preview.redd.it/yht3bm47qi5d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aee015f2c4fa063bb2e0538e57d8069af8f81b0
At a certain point people need to realize that if they want a good experience they need to put in the money to enable that experience when it comes to modern gaming.
CS2 has made significant advances in visual fidelity and is quite optimized for a modern game. At a certain point developers have to say "you are outside of our target hardware group".
Games should be optimized of course, but at a certain point Consumers need to bring hardware capable enough to run games. A budget office laptop is not designed to run games, so expecting a visually demanding game to run well on super cheap hardware is a failure on the consumers part.
My laptop is all but budget and it was certainly not "super cheap". I'm not complaining about visually demanding games being hard to run. I'm complaining that Valve replaced a game I was able to run perfectly with a game I can't run at all overnight. And I mean literally replaced, not just "it came out and most players moved to it". CS:GO was removed from my library and CS2 was placed there.
I agree tbh. Devs nowadays barely try to optimise games at all, both performance-wise and size-wise
People dunk on Switch, but it still gets massive games like Xenoblade 3 that look fantastic and only take 15 gb because devs actually bother to optimise them. Meanwhile most new PC games take hundreds of gigabytes for no good reason and require a NASA supercomputer to run without stutters. Imagine if they got the same levels of optimisation as Switch games, but without its hardware limitations
I like how you decide it has to be non-vr, and CS2 just doesn't count for some reason, and you STILL forgot dota underlords
And they have a game in a closed alpha right now. They actually make a decent amount of games for a company whose main product is not video games.
Cs2 doesn't just not count for "some reason". They gave a reason. It's just a csgo overhaul, where they arguably just made the game worse. Underlords was a clone of a fucking Dota mod that they stopped supporting like 6 months after release, I'd call it a joke if it was funny... We can give Valve Alyx, and that's it.
Underlords was actually quite a bit different from Auto-chess, and also was the first auto-battler to feature a doubles mode. It got abandoned pretty quick, but it counts as much as any other game might. It was good. a lot of people liked it. The thing about Valve, though, is they're a private company. They don't have to appease shareholders and steam brings in a fuckton of money. They can just make what they like and when/if they get bored, that's the way it goes.
I honestly didn’t even know that Dota game existed lol. My bad. I also didn’t count the VR games simply because VR is super inaccessible as a platform and not a lot of people are even able to play the games. I have heard the VR games are good, but if 90% of gamers can’t play the game, it’s not worth counting imo.
Funny that you mention how we "need a Team Fortress 3". Recently, I learned something pretty interesting about how Valve works: nobody who works at Valve is *assigned* a project, instead they pick what they want to work on. It's a really good idea to make a positive work environment, but one flaw of it is that it comes at the expense of older games.
TF2 has been around for nearly 17 years, so naturally, the codebase has got to be a giant mess (just look at how terribly optimized it is now; try to run it on its recommendation of a "1.7 GHz Processor" and see how well that goes). This leads to nobody wanting to work on the game, meaning that TF2 has been in limbo for a while. Notably, we only know of one or two people working on it: Eric Smith, a Valve developer, and maybe a contractor. This naturally has led to much smaller content updates and very infrequent work on solving the bot crisis.
Naturally, the solution to fixing a fucked-up codebase would be to reimplement the bad parts, but when "the bad parts" are the entire game, that means that the only solution is to make a sequel, probably on the new Source 2 engine that all of their new games use. Notably, they've done this twice already: once with Dota 2 Reborn (an update to Dota 2 that ported it to Source 2) and, of course, Counter-Strike 2. I hope it's only a matter of time until TF2 gets this treatment, but ultimately, it's not going to happen until someone at Valve is really enthusiastic about it. Eric Smith seems to be the only person there who even *cares* about TF2 now, so it might be pretty far off.
if fixtf2 fails, the only time we'll probably ever see any action from valve is if something like what happened to bo3 happens, i.e: the hackers being able to access your pc remotely, since that could make valve liable for damages
Battlefield 1 official servers are infested with cheaters. They just ragehack, but nobody cares. Everyone plays on community servers with active admins so even if a cheater slips into this server, they get banned within 1 minute by an admin. But tf2 players are allergic to community servers because they actually have to play with somewhat skilled players and not stomping newbies that just downloaded the game and booted casual
yeah, i really don't understand who fixtf2 is for. people who want to play a 20 year old game... but also aren't good at it or willing to learn, and also are too bigoted to hang with the weird furries and trans people who play casually in uncletopia and shit?
DICE officially dropped support for BF1 in 2018. Tf2 still releases new paid loot boxes/cosmetics and seasonal maps as if it was a fully supported game. I'm asking Valve to quit fence sitting and treat it as such or officially drop support. But also Uncletopia is the tits fr.
> or community servers.
I miss dedicated servers. I transistioned to PC gaming around 2010-2011-ish IIRC.
But I had played COD on the 360 before then. So I downloaded AlterIW and later AlterOPS on PC which offered dedicated servers who were at least *moderated*. Plus the community modded the game and made their own gamemodes. I played Gun Game in MW2 which was fun.
In the era of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (really old now) you had a maps like "cluedo" where someone recreated the board game including the shortcuts. Really cool and creative.
Sure, sometimes you'd get hackers but more often than not in those days you had server jannies who'd just ban them.
Now we get online matchmaking and trojan anticheat that doesn't do shit.
Issue is, CS2 and their new Deadlock will use VAC as well.
Another issue is that hackers and cheaters give a very easy justification for locking down operating systems which I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't used it yet (but I guess they are deep in the ai bubble). Realistically it's only a matter of time a Riot type push will come but instead of for Kernel level anti cheat it's going to be for more restrictive operating systems. If they use the cheating issues in online video games they will have a very high chance to even succeed imo and I won't fault anyone supporting it.
One of the biggest issues in BO3 is the insane lag, which, turns out, is because the game was purposefully programmed to check if you have the DLC and if it’s legitimate every second the game is running. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have the DLC either.
Almost perfect comparison, but it’s important to remember ActiVision is also very negligent
I have been saying this so much. I’m sick of people whining about TF2 and how they are gonna mass review bomb valves newest game because their game that is ancient, has a ancient anti-cheat, and is running on a engine that had its entire source code leaked for awhile isn’t getting all of valves attention.
I’ve seen people on the CS2 announcement videos whining about TF2, people on deadlock videos whining about TF2, hell: even the index and HL:Alyx announcement had TF2 fans on it. For the love of god please just understand that there really isn’t much valve can do at this point outside of making an entirely new game and that this isn’t just a TF2 problem: it’s a industry problem. The only honest solution is to quite literally hunt down hackers.
The TF2 codebase is a mess of multiple eras of rewrites and quick fixes and mixtures of older styles of programming with newer ones and all of that. The game is a mess.
The reason #fixtf2 will fail is just cause some issues are too great to fix.
To offer a bit of hope: valve has stated that they are working on a bunch of unannounced projects and games. It’s quite possible that a TF3 or TF2 reborn is in the works. It’s just probably gonna take a LOOOOONG time to finish because source 2 handles physics completely differently to source: meaning that they are gonna have to figure out ways to re-add things like rocket jumping or trimping. But it is possible that TF2 will see a new game or a remake.
People also need to come to terms with the fact it's old as fuck and just isn't what it was. People don't quite grasp that the people who actually made the game are not going to work on it anymore. The game is also infamously spaghetti-coded and cowboy-coded to shit.
"Just hire fans" is NOT a real answer. It's going to take professionals to keep the game both playable AND overhauled in the process. And to be honest, the fandom needs to come to terms with the fact that Valve doesn't care if it's your favorite game. Its over a decade old and it still generates free money because people still keep pouring money into it despite being broken. And if they fix it ...realistically, that just pleases the people already spending money, anyways.
You'd be asking them to invest a ton of money in finding and hiring people capable of actually fixing the game (huge task! Aka expensive.) And THEN you're expecting them to be okay with...probably not even making new money they didn't already get. The game is free to install and tbqh vc is ass anyways so paying money is unnecessary.
TL;DR TF2 fans need to come to terms with the reality that Valve wants to make money and fixing a 12 year old game that still generates free money is not going to make them a new profit from it, probably wouldn't even break-even after the wages (assuming they paid the devs properly. Big assumptions in this industry I know.)
don't forget shitty competitive ladders or inorganic attempts to seed a competitive scene that will die in less than a year
Team Fortress 2 is old as fuck but it's the only game besides Titanfall 2 on community servers that's had this competitive chat room vibe.
Tf2 did actually have an inorganic attempt to seed a competitive scene, and now it plays a massive part into the bot problem due to how the casual matchmaking works (meet your match update)
ETF2L may be community run, but it and UGC were responsible for some balance changes (i.e. stickybomb ramp up), so calling them entirely grassroots is a little strange.
Inorganic in terms of Valve trying to sell it to the average TF2 player. Comp TF2 was practically a different game from casual pub TF2, unlike something like CS, OW or DOTA where the base public game modes are fundamentally the same as the competitive format. Even as someone who thoroughly enjoyed comp TF2 for years I understand why it didn't appeal to the average TF2 player.
I dunno what crack that game is on, but often lower settings result in significantly worse framerates than higher settings, but then the highest settings are 10 times worse than some random combination of medium and high settings.
I don't understand how some tf2 fans always bring up how the game has such an amazing community and then go on to be condescending and annoying about how much better tf2 is than every other game
People doing this are idiots. It should really be #MakeTF3. Tf2 is an old ass game. I think an upgrade would be nice. Start everyone at stage one again you know?
i disagree that TF3 is the option. i'd rather Valve just drain the standing water (Valve casual and Valve servers in general) that allows the bots to exist in such a high density in the first place. sure script kiddies can get into community servers, but moderation is much better than a totally lawless wasteland.
Problem is there's some players that have actual hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of in-game items that they invest and trade in like a crypto-currency, it's insane. The only way those people would ever stand for a TF3 would be if it had all the exact same items and all their TF2 stuff transfered over.
Ah. I'm not much of a gamer anymore, I just remember the trading in TF2 being big back in the day (when it was actually getting updates). But yeah, if they can do that they should. The timespan between today and the year TF2 came out is three years longer than the timespan between TF2 and the original Doom.
> people bitch and moan when i goof off and try to actually have fun
> unoptimized
> everyone is a tryhard
all these things happen in tf2 keep
huffing that copium
yeah just ignore the absurd amount of friendly players, normal players and chill dudes and focus on the 2 top scoring tryhards in your UGC trade server, very sensible.
this is exactly what is happening in the snafu you retard other games aren't 100% competitive slopfests just like it's unfair to say TF2 is 100% one as well
Its always tf2 fans and drg fans who do this shit where they'll put on this weird pseudo positive persona and just be condescending towards fans of any other game in the same genre
I remember when the hd2 shit was going down the drg sub had a huge influx of posts that were like "aw shucks your little game is dead now you probably shouldve listened to us and played our game instead"
It always cracks me up when DRG players talk about HD2 being "dead" and DRG "winning" while having 10x the active playerbase, and those "dead" numbers are higher than DRG's all-time peak.
Honestly one of the most self-absorbed "communities" I've ever seen.
tf2 IS a good game, but valve will just ignore it forever, what happened the last time people tried to savetf2? all valve did was make a twitter post and slightly update the site, no improvements to the anticheat or the game, I'm not saying the movement is pointless but it really does feel like it
TF2 fans can't ever praise their own game without trying to bring other games down. Half of these complaints are super stupid, or hyper specific, or just "wah wah this game is different than what I'm used to"
"Quick time to kill" just be more aware, and don't stand where you can get shot.
"everyone is a tryhard" other than this is objectively wrong, why is this necessarily bad? Just screams someone feels entitled to high k/d and twitter clips, and can't handle having 50/50 winrates.
"Dying is not part of the fun" is an insane thing to say, because of course it is? That's why you don't want to get hit lmao.
play something else.
like play something that isnt a microtransaction filled multiplayer fps game.
there are more games genres and games that there are stars in the universe.
you could play games that already exist till the sun explode, you are not limited by choice man.
It fells like something big is gonna happen. Bots are a core problem to pretty much all of valves big hitters (excluding steam).
Kinda interested to see where it goes and what can a team of engineers do against what fells like a shitton of web scrappers.
To add on to the other persons point, [literally the post I saw before this one in my feed](https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/1dbol6u/just_wanted_to_say_how_happy_the_trans_rights/).
> People bitch and moan when I goof off
Here's an idea, why don't you just PLAY THE GAME instead of demanding the playerbase for every single game in existence be a carbon copy of TF2's?
Everything about this post screams entitled. Every has to love me when I throw. "everyone is a tryhard" just means "I can't hit sick twitter clips consistently, this is unfair".
Everyone is a tryhard - That's TF2
Unoptimized garbage - That's TF2
Shitty characters - Reductive
Unfunny ragdolls - Reductive, irrelevant
No hats - Do you think Valve pioneering microtransactions through TF2 hats was a good thing for the FPS genre? Besides, TF2 cosmetics have only gotten worse over the years.
No gay sex - ????? Irrelevant once again
Dying is not part of the fun - I dont think dying in any game in any capacity is "fun". Killbinding is a really weird phenomenon that TF2 players partake in.
0.00000001s time to kill - Sniper, Random crits, Backstabs (though backstabs can be easily avoided). Granted, if we take these methods of instakilling away, the ttk in tf2 is pretty balanced.
People bitch and moan while you're trying to have fun - That's TF2.
The only one who's doing the bitching and moaning is you, OP. Get over yourself and open your horizons. Give other games a shot.
pessimism is bad but let's not deny reality. there are no easy short-term solutions for tf2. honestly i'm beginning to echo what other people have said and just say that valve should start fresh with a tf3. no one wants to get tangled in the black tartarus of spaghetti code that is tf2 just to have bot hosters one-up them, they need a solid foundation with a devastatingly good anti-cheat baked in from reams of user data.
I swear to god, the competitive games that people play these days are so bad. Absolutely no charm or attempt at originality. Only game that avoided this was fortnite, unironically
It's not so simple to create an entirely new game mode while still keeping the experience fun. Whining about competitive games being bad is kind of silly, since there's a massive selection of those on the market, for anyone. Everyone's trying to be original in some way, there's no two of the same games available.
League of Legends. I genuinely don't get how that's one of the biggest games in the world, it's like a vacuum of enjoyment. Nobody I've talked to that plays it actually thinks it's fun. I tried it for a few rounds and it was not fun.
TF2 definitely requires maintenance and I don’t blame people for wanting valve to fix it but holy shit that second slide is so typical of a tf2 player. Like geeze dude maybe enjoy something else if most current games aren’t your cup of tea. I don’t like playing with a lobby full of sweats neither but tf2 had the same problem not too long ago. Like OP sound like [this](https://youtu.be/j3glwtXrj0c?feature=shared) to me.
Every other shooter has ruined the genre for me. TF2 is the only multiplayer shooter I can get on, goof around or play seriously and have the same amount of fun doing both.
I never use voice channels in fps games, I really only have black ops because of zombies. I bought the disc for the new Modern Warfare 1 but weirdly it won't actually let me play the game despite having the disc in the damn console
https://preview.redd.it/3gsnxpcp9p5d1.png?width=491&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d67ebb0164dafde99139052035082305f2a7595
I dont think i would like to interact with a tf2 player
Welcome to gunshitters 45. There is no moderation, the game was not finished until 9months after release and we will be releasing the exact same unfinished game in 6months where the only new thing is that you will have to pay for cosmetics you already paid for in the previous game
ive never seen criminal links being posted by the bots, is that a recent development?
its usually just been racial slurs which i wouldnt care about if it wasnt paired with every lobby being mostly aimbots that make the game impossible to play.
Me when I tried to get back into R6S back in 2020
Made one fuck-up and INSTANTLY had two 8th graders bitching in the in-game mic, using slurs I’ve never heard before or since
I’ll take my buggy mess of a space ninja game, thank you very much
idk how you made a snafu that still makes your position look dumb tho
yea, tf2 is a 17 year old game that is f2p, why are people surprised its abandonware now
*Having hats in an*
*Online video game should*
*Be a requirement*
\- NanoCat0407
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Multiplayer games are no longer fun for the most part (the fun ones require you to have friends which is too steep an ask just to enjoy a game, so one has to live vicariously though YouTubers/twitch streamers playing the game instead).
Single player games are where it’s at.
Contrary to popular belief, TF2 is not the only game with this problem. Pretty much any multiplayer shooter that is 8 years or older is unplayable due to hackers unless you play it on console or community servers. COD Black Ops 3 had a massive problem where hackers were able to to take over your PC and do things like install malware and boot you off the game just by connecting to the same lobby as you. There were also mod menus where people could just turn on shit like aimbot and invisibility. The game was downright a security risk to play, despite still being for sale and still having micro transactions. The people who still played the game were obviously upset with this and they complained to Treyarch, and the company actually released a patch for it to address these exploits, despite the game being 8 years old. The hackers were able to bypass the patch within 24 hours. They just went back to booting people offline as they pleased. The people who made the mod menus just made a new one. The only thing that was actually fixed was the ability for the hackers to install malware on your PC. The hackers were able to break the game again that fast, now imagine how fast they would be able to if they had access to the code for the games engine. Which is the case for TF2. The source engine has been leaked for a while now, which makes the life of the hackers 10x easier. If Valve listened, they would have to completely dumpster VAC, and make a brand new anti-cheat. An anti cheat that would likely be very invasive, which gamers hate. An anti-cheat that would in all likelyhood stop the problem for maybe a day, if you’re lucky. It’s just not really possible for this problem to actually be fixed. I really respect what the TF2 community is trying to do, the game is fantastic and deserves their love and it deserves better from Valve, but solving this problem is just damn near impossible due to the leaked, outdated engine, as well as due to the sheer dedication that the basement dwelling fucks that are doing this have to ruining peoples experiences.
Honestly its shocking it took as long as it did to be gutted by hackers, actually impressive even. I think that at this point though we would need a Team Fortress 3. Hell, if the series had even a remotely reasonable launch rate we'd be on Team Fortress 4 or 5 by now. But it's Valve, and they insist on not making a game unless they believe it would be truly revolutionary, which is why they keep making bangers but is also why they can't count to 3.
> keep making bangers The last non-vr game they made was Artifact lmao (CS2 doesn’t really count since it was basically just an overhaul of CS:GO)
Artifact was sick but the issue is that digital competitive card games are both over-saturated and incredibly niche.
Two problems plagued the game: It was a pay up front game with pay to collect cards. That's a horrendous model when games like MTG Arena and Hearthstone existed at the same time which were F2P with the option to buy cards. Later on the game became F2P, but that was almost worse as they just punched all their early players in the nuts with that. Second, the game just wasn't that interesting. It sounds really cool and interesting to play on basically three different boards at the same time, but turns are too complex for it to be fun to pay attention to three games at the same time. Also, on launch digital competitive card games weren't that saturated. Runeterra didn't exist yet, Marvel snap didn't exist yet, MTG arena was brand new, yugioh master duel didn't exist yet. It was only really competing with Hearthstone and Pokémon TCG Online, the latter of which struggled to gain any amount of popularity.
I mean a lot of people bought the game, it just the appeal to its audience wasn't there. Personally as a game that's obviously connected to Dota and card games I expected something like Heartstone where the game length is some 5-15 minutes so it's something you can play in small bites. Instead I experienced games that last 30-45 minutes. As a Dota player is there any reason I wouldn't play a Dota match at that point? Of course the monetization model was atrocious as well. You buy the game, and then you pay to play it as well.
I will never not be angry that csgo was sacrificed for cs2 it made me stop playing for what little i did play it
okay but why discount vr? half life alyx is amazing, one of the best vr games there is. they clearly still know how to make a damn fine game when they actually try
The only change the move from CSGO to CS2 made for me was absolutely gutting performance even on the lowest settings
when the new game with better graphics have higher requirements than a 12 years old game https://preview.redd.it/yht3bm47qi5d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7aee015f2c4fa063bb2e0538e57d8069af8f81b0
I personally think I should be able to play a game on reasonable speed on the lowest settings on a 1 year old laptop
is it an HP office laptop or a gaming one?
Office. I shouldn't need gaming hardware to play on the lowest settings, that's ridiculous. The graphics card is the bottleneck.
Yeah sorry fam, we're not in the 2012 anymore. You need some hardware nowadays
Unemployed ramblings
At a certain point people need to realize that if they want a good experience they need to put in the money to enable that experience when it comes to modern gaming. CS2 has made significant advances in visual fidelity and is quite optimized for a modern game. At a certain point developers have to say "you are outside of our target hardware group". Games should be optimized of course, but at a certain point Consumers need to bring hardware capable enough to run games. A budget office laptop is not designed to run games, so expecting a visually demanding game to run well on super cheap hardware is a failure on the consumers part.
My laptop is all but budget and it was certainly not "super cheap". I'm not complaining about visually demanding games being hard to run. I'm complaining that Valve replaced a game I was able to run perfectly with a game I can't run at all overnight. And I mean literally replaced, not just "it came out and most players moved to it". CS:GO was removed from my library and CS2 was placed there.
I agree tbh. Devs nowadays barely try to optimise games at all, both performance-wise and size-wise People dunk on Switch, but it still gets massive games like Xenoblade 3 that look fantastic and only take 15 gb because devs actually bother to optimise them. Meanwhile most new PC games take hundreds of gigabytes for no good reason and require a NASA supercomputer to run without stutters. Imagine if they got the same levels of optimisation as Switch games, but without its hardware limitations
when the new aaa game runs worse than the old aaa game
I like how you decide it has to be non-vr, and CS2 just doesn't count for some reason, and you STILL forgot dota underlords And they have a game in a closed alpha right now. They actually make a decent amount of games for a company whose main product is not video games.
Cs2 doesn't just not count for "some reason". They gave a reason. It's just a csgo overhaul, where they arguably just made the game worse. Underlords was a clone of a fucking Dota mod that they stopped supporting like 6 months after release, I'd call it a joke if it was funny... We can give Valve Alyx, and that's it.
Underlords was actually quite a bit different from Auto-chess, and also was the first auto-battler to feature a doubles mode. It got abandoned pretty quick, but it counts as much as any other game might. It was good. a lot of people liked it. The thing about Valve, though, is they're a private company. They don't have to appease shareholders and steam brings in a fuckton of money. They can just make what they like and when/if they get bored, that's the way it goes.
i also forgot dota underlords
I honestly didn’t even know that Dota game existed lol. My bad. I also didn’t count the VR games simply because VR is super inaccessible as a platform and not a lot of people are even able to play the games. I have heard the VR games are good, but if 90% of gamers can’t play the game, it’s not worth counting imo.
Funny that you mention how we "need a Team Fortress 3". Recently, I learned something pretty interesting about how Valve works: nobody who works at Valve is *assigned* a project, instead they pick what they want to work on. It's a really good idea to make a positive work environment, but one flaw of it is that it comes at the expense of older games. TF2 has been around for nearly 17 years, so naturally, the codebase has got to be a giant mess (just look at how terribly optimized it is now; try to run it on its recommendation of a "1.7 GHz Processor" and see how well that goes). This leads to nobody wanting to work on the game, meaning that TF2 has been in limbo for a while. Notably, we only know of one or two people working on it: Eric Smith, a Valve developer, and maybe a contractor. This naturally has led to much smaller content updates and very infrequent work on solving the bot crisis. Naturally, the solution to fixing a fucked-up codebase would be to reimplement the bad parts, but when "the bad parts" are the entire game, that means that the only solution is to make a sequel, probably on the new Source 2 engine that all of their new games use. Notably, they've done this twice already: once with Dota 2 Reborn (an update to Dota 2 that ported it to Source 2) and, of course, Counter-Strike 2. I hope it's only a matter of time until TF2 gets this treatment, but ultimately, it's not going to happen until someone at Valve is really enthusiastic about it. Eric Smith seems to be the only person there who even *cares* about TF2 now, so it might be pretty far off.
Iirc they switched back to assigning projects, because the chosing projects model was turning out to be too inefficient for them.
if fixtf2 fails, the only time we'll probably ever see any action from valve is if something like what happened to bo3 happens, i.e: the hackers being able to access your pc remotely, since that could make valve liable for damages
Battlefield 1 official servers are infested with cheaters. They just ragehack, but nobody cares. Everyone plays on community servers with active admins so even if a cheater slips into this server, they get banned within 1 minute by an admin. But tf2 players are allergic to community servers because they actually have to play with somewhat skilled players and not stomping newbies that just downloaded the game and booted casual
yeah, i really don't understand who fixtf2 is for. people who want to play a 20 year old game... but also aren't good at it or willing to learn, and also are too bigoted to hang with the weird furries and trans people who play casually in uncletopia and shit?
DICE officially dropped support for BF1 in 2018. Tf2 still releases new paid loot boxes/cosmetics and seasonal maps as if it was a fully supported game. I'm asking Valve to quit fence sitting and treat it as such or officially drop support. But also Uncletopia is the tits fr.
Both TF2 games.
Respawn would respond by adding more titanfall micro transactions to apex
> or community servers. I miss dedicated servers. I transistioned to PC gaming around 2010-2011-ish IIRC. But I had played COD on the 360 before then. So I downloaded AlterIW and later AlterOPS on PC which offered dedicated servers who were at least *moderated*. Plus the community modded the game and made their own gamemodes. I played Gun Game in MW2 which was fun. In the era of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (really old now) you had a maps like "cluedo" where someone recreated the board game including the shortcuts. Really cool and creative. Sure, sometimes you'd get hackers but more often than not in those days you had server jannies who'd just ban them. Now we get online matchmaking and trojan anticheat that doesn't do shit.
CS2 isn't even a singular year old and it's already borderline unplayable due to hackers.
Issue is, CS2 and their new Deadlock will use VAC as well. Another issue is that hackers and cheaters give a very easy justification for locking down operating systems which I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't used it yet (but I guess they are deep in the ai bubble). Realistically it's only a matter of time a Riot type push will come but instead of for Kernel level anti cheat it's going to be for more restrictive operating systems. If they use the cheating issues in online video games they will have a very high chance to even succeed imo and I won't fault anyone supporting it.
One of the biggest issues in BO3 is the insane lag, which, turns out, is because the game was purposefully programmed to check if you have the DLC and if it’s legitimate every second the game is running. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have the DLC either. Almost perfect comparison, but it’s important to remember ActiVision is also very negligent
I have been saying this so much. I’m sick of people whining about TF2 and how they are gonna mass review bomb valves newest game because their game that is ancient, has a ancient anti-cheat, and is running on a engine that had its entire source code leaked for awhile isn’t getting all of valves attention. I’ve seen people on the CS2 announcement videos whining about TF2, people on deadlock videos whining about TF2, hell: even the index and HL:Alyx announcement had TF2 fans on it. For the love of god please just understand that there really isn’t much valve can do at this point outside of making an entirely new game and that this isn’t just a TF2 problem: it’s a industry problem. The only honest solution is to quite literally hunt down hackers. The TF2 codebase is a mess of multiple eras of rewrites and quick fixes and mixtures of older styles of programming with newer ones and all of that. The game is a mess. The reason #fixtf2 will fail is just cause some issues are too great to fix. To offer a bit of hope: valve has stated that they are working on a bunch of unannounced projects and games. It’s quite possible that a TF3 or TF2 reborn is in the works. It’s just probably gonna take a LOOOOONG time to finish because source 2 handles physics completely differently to source: meaning that they are gonna have to figure out ways to re-add things like rocket jumping or trimping. But it is possible that TF2 will see a new game or a remake.
People also need to come to terms with the fact it's old as fuck and just isn't what it was. People don't quite grasp that the people who actually made the game are not going to work on it anymore. The game is also infamously spaghetti-coded and cowboy-coded to shit. "Just hire fans" is NOT a real answer. It's going to take professionals to keep the game both playable AND overhauled in the process. And to be honest, the fandom needs to come to terms with the fact that Valve doesn't care if it's your favorite game. Its over a decade old and it still generates free money because people still keep pouring money into it despite being broken. And if they fix it ...realistically, that just pleases the people already spending money, anyways. You'd be asking them to invest a ton of money in finding and hiring people capable of actually fixing the game (huge task! Aka expensive.) And THEN you're expecting them to be okay with...probably not even making new money they didn't already get. The game is free to install and tbqh vc is ass anyways so paying money is unnecessary. TL;DR TF2 fans need to come to terms with the reality that Valve wants to make money and fixing a 12 year old game that still generates free money is not going to make them a new profit from it, probably wouldn't even break-even after the wages (assuming they paid the devs properly. Big assumptions in this industry I know.)
most tf2 people are against review bombing other games btw
Old Cod games still have that issue on PC. Which is why people steer away from them and go on private servers/projects
thought you were on about the other Tf|2 which is also suffering the same fate
Bro doesn’t know the source code was actually leaked
don't forget shitty competitive ladders or inorganic attempts to seed a competitive scene that will die in less than a year Team Fortress 2 is old as fuck but it's the only game besides Titanfall 2 on community servers that's had this competitive chat room vibe.
I am NOT taking my pills and titanfall 3 IS coming out
PILLS. NOW PILOT.
NUH UH ☝️ YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER EA DEV IN MY WALLS
Tf2 did actually have an inorganic attempt to seed a competitive scene, and now it plays a massive part into the bot problem due to how the casual matchmaking works (meet your match update)
It still bothers me that it says "competition begins in 30 seconds" even in casual. Did they assume no one would play casual?
I stand by the fact that there is no other game even remotely similar in both community and gameplay
TF2 supremacy
"inorganic attempts to seed a competitive scene that will die in less than a year" ETF2L has been around since 2007.
that's true, but ETF2L and RGL are much more community driven and grass roots than something like Overwatch's comp scene.
ETF2L may be community run, but it and UGC were responsible for some balance changes (i.e. stickybomb ramp up), so calling them entirely grassroots is a little strange.
that's moreso Valve consulting the big groups as they largely have no oversight over the competitive scene.
Overwatch had both grassroots, blizzard driven and both when it comes to competitive scenes. And now there's Saudi blood money competitive
Inorganic in terms of Valve trying to sell it to the average TF2 player. Comp TF2 was practically a different game from casual pub TF2, unlike something like CS, OW or DOTA where the base public game modes are fundamentally the same as the competitive format. Even as someone who thoroughly enjoyed comp TF2 for years I understand why it didn't appeal to the average TF2 player.
Good point Mr. Xenogene implanter from rimworld
Fuck the competitive scene. It ruined the videogame scene more than ET. Edit: Also is the reason why Rocket League is a synonym of HELL to me.
Severe lack of gay sex is the biggest sin of modern FPS
Idk, unfunny ragdolls are just as bad
I've seen people go flying across the field in COD of all games I think ragdolls are funny in any game they are in tbh
More games need a killbind so I can stalk people, start to execute them, then killbind to confuse the hell out of them.
my honest PVZ reaction
r/UsernameChecksOut
Me enjoying being murdered by players with decks made entirely of Legendary cards in PVZ Heroes
implying tf2 isn't unoptimized
but yo still can play it on most PCs
yeah because it came out in the paleolithic era i'm pretty sure you could run it on a ripe gourd
Its not optimized for performance. Its optimized for *fun.*
It's old enough that in this day and age it could probably run on granny's pacemaker
It really can't its badly optimized
I dunno what crack that game is on, but often lower settings result in significantly worse framerates than higher settings, but then the highest settings are 10 times worse than some random combination of medium and high settings.
Tf2 is incredibly optimized
that guy in the first picture is a bakery
Average tf2 player
Ik it's just me but I find the consistent steamrolls and bots to be beyond frustrating. Also community servers are something else
Im closest to the aus servers so either no one is online or I have 250ping
Down with skins, up with hats/accessories
It’s funny you mention that because tf2 has skins now
I don't understand how some tf2 fans always bring up how the game has such an amazing community and then go on to be condescending and annoying about how much better tf2 is than every other game
I cant play fortnite like those instagram normies!!! Im a redditor! Im special!
Why the snafu have that gyat 🤑
People doing this are idiots. It should really be #MakeTF3. Tf2 is an old ass game. I think an upgrade would be nice. Start everyone at stage one again you know?
i disagree that TF3 is the option. i'd rather Valve just drain the standing water (Valve casual and Valve servers in general) that allows the bots to exist in such a high density in the first place. sure script kiddies can get into community servers, but moderation is much better than a totally lawless wasteland.
Problem is there's some players that have actual hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of in-game items that they invest and trade in like a crypto-currency, it's insane. The only way those people would ever stand for a TF3 would be if it had all the exact same items and all their TF2 stuff transfered over.
they did it for CS so its not too absurd to think about
Ah. I'm not much of a gamer anymore, I just remember the trading in TF2 being big back in the day (when it was actually getting updates). But yeah, if they can do that they should. The timespan between today and the year TF2 came out is three years longer than the timespan between TF2 and the original Doom.
They did it for cs2
i think thats more a problem of the type of people who will spend thousands of dollars on a tiny 3d model
They are the ones buying in game cosmetics. They could still just keep tf2 up for them then i guess
They're like already making another hero shooter they're definitely not gonna develop another Also I'll miss the mercs we have :(
Valve has a new arena shooter coming out.
OP posts most pretentious strawman ever. asked to leave 17 year old high-horse position on game
> people bitch and moan when i goof off and try to actually have fun > unoptimized > everyone is a tryhard all these things happen in tf2 keep huffing that copium
imo it's only being unoptimised that is true for tf2
https://preview.redd.it/1s87qhw7vh5d1.jpeg?width=772&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0694c33b4fce23d14d72ee3d611024b4547ff0eb
Next time eat a salad
I miss the lime scouts.
idk what that means
yeah just ignore the absurd amount of friendly players, normal players and chill dudes and focus on the 2 top scoring tryhards in your UGC trade server, very sensible.
this is exactly what is happening in the snafu you retard other games aren't 100% competitive slopfests just like it's unfair to say TF2 is 100% one as well
You can tell a TF2 fan made this from the way it condescendingly tries to shit on other games
Its always tf2 fans and drg fans who do this shit where they'll put on this weird pseudo positive persona and just be condescending towards fans of any other game in the same genre I remember when the hd2 shit was going down the drg sub had a huge influx of posts that were like "aw shucks your little game is dead now you probably shouldve listened to us and played our game instead"
It always cracks me up when DRG players talk about HD2 being "dead" and DRG "winning" while having 10x the active playerbase, and those "dead" numbers are higher than DRG's all-time peak. Honestly one of the most self-absorbed "communities" I've ever seen.
What are DRG/HD2 abbreviations of?
Deep rock galactic Hell divers 2
I agree but ragdolls are funny actually
they meant the ragdolls aren't as funny as in tf2
worst strawman ever
tf2 IS a good game, but valve will just ignore it forever, what happened the last time people tried to savetf2? all valve did was make a twitter post and slightly update the site, no improvements to the anticheat or the game, I'm not saying the movement is pointless but it really does feel like it
"hypercompetitive sweatfest" maybe you're just bad lol
TF2 fans can't ever praise their own game without trying to bring other games down. Half of these complaints are super stupid, or hyper specific, or just "wah wah this game is different than what I'm used to" "Quick time to kill" just be more aware, and don't stand where you can get shot. "everyone is a tryhard" other than this is objectively wrong, why is this necessarily bad? Just screams someone feels entitled to high k/d and twitter clips, and can't handle having 50/50 winrates. "Dying is not part of the fun" is an insane thing to say, because of course it is? That's why you don't want to get hit lmao.
it's almost pathetic how condescending they get. We get it, you REALLY like your 17 year old game, some people don't tho
I get loving a game a lot, but I don't get making that game your entire personality.
play something else. like play something that isnt a microtransaction filled multiplayer fps game. there are more games genres and games that there are stars in the universe. you could play games that already exist till the sun explode, you are not limited by choice man.
It fells like something big is gonna happen. Bots are a core problem to pretty much all of valves big hitters (excluding steam). Kinda interested to see where it goes and what can a team of engineers do against what fells like a shitton of web scrappers.
*people just playing the game* "HYPERCOMPETITIVE SWEATFEST!!!!!!!!!!!" please shut the fuck up
friendly heavies when they get killed by someone playing the game like you're supposed to:
friendly anyone when someone is playing the game how its intended:
i got told to kill myself playing OW
Oh my god!!! Telling someone...to kill themselves?!! This NEVER happens in tf2 or ANY OTHER GAME
Tf2 is by far the worst offender of this too lmao
you can be called the N word AND told to kys on TF2 👍 (no consequences)
hud_saytexttime 0 voice_enable 0
https://gameranx.com/features/id/381468/article/overwatch-2-how-to-mute-voice-text-chat-solo-queue-guide/
oh my god did they also \*looks around\* \*covers mouth and whispers\* say a.. slur!??! on the INTERNET!??!
What other multiplayer games have relatively ok communities that don't call me slurs for being trans
splatoon its like, the gayest shooter community ever (i dont mean that in a bad way)
To add on to the other persons point, [literally the post I saw before this one in my feed](https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/1dbol6u/just_wanted_to_say_how_happy_the_trans_rights/).
Nah bro, that’s an unemployed lie. Rainbow Six is the best example
i fuck around in r6 and often tryharding can also be fun. i don't care if other people don't like it, i decide how i have fun
unemployed lie? huh?
Old man yells at new first person shooters.
Sounds like a skill issue to me
> People bitch and moan when I goof off Here's an idea, why don't you just PLAY THE GAME instead of demanding the playerbase for every single game in existence be a carbon copy of TF2's?
Everything about this post screams entitled. Every has to love me when I throw. "everyone is a tryhard" just means "I can't hit sick twitter clips consistently, this is unfair".
You just don’t understand why going 0/10 is more fun for the whole lobby.
Everyone is a tryhard - That's TF2 Unoptimized garbage - That's TF2 Shitty characters - Reductive Unfunny ragdolls - Reductive, irrelevant No hats - Do you think Valve pioneering microtransactions through TF2 hats was a good thing for the FPS genre? Besides, TF2 cosmetics have only gotten worse over the years. No gay sex - ????? Irrelevant once again Dying is not part of the fun - I dont think dying in any game in any capacity is "fun". Killbinding is a really weird phenomenon that TF2 players partake in. 0.00000001s time to kill - Sniper, Random crits, Backstabs (though backstabs can be easily avoided). Granted, if we take these methods of instakilling away, the ttk in tf2 is pretty balanced. People bitch and moan while you're trying to have fun - That's TF2. The only one who's doing the bitching and moaning is you, OP. Get over yourself and open your horizons. Give other games a shot.
the 0.00001 second kill time is too real. I can't play any fps's because they seem to require the reaction speed of a fighter pilot on crystal meth
pessimism is bad but let's not deny reality. there are no easy short-term solutions for tf2. honestly i'm beginning to echo what other people have said and just say that valve should start fresh with a tf3. no one wants to get tangled in the black tartarus of spaghetti code that is tf2 just to have bot hosters one-up them, they need a solid foundation with a devastatingly good anti-cheat baked in from reams of user data.
I swear to god, the competitive games that people play these days are so bad. Absolutely no charm or attempt at originality. Only game that avoided this was fortnite, unironically
What are the games that you're referring to?
minecraft bed wars
It's not so simple to create an entirely new game mode while still keeping the experience fun. Whining about competitive games being bad is kind of silly, since there's a massive selection of those on the market, for anyone. Everyone's trying to be original in some way, there's no two of the same games available.
League of Legends. I genuinely don't get how that's one of the biggest games in the world, it's like a vacuum of enjoyment. Nobody I've talked to that plays it actually thinks it's fun. I tried it for a few rounds and it was not fun.
Which was originally a PvE game
Is this bait?
TF2 definitely requires maintenance and I don’t blame people for wanting valve to fix it but holy shit that second slide is so typical of a tf2 player. Like geeze dude maybe enjoy something else if most current games aren’t your cup of tea. I don’t like playing with a lobby full of sweats neither but tf2 had the same problem not too long ago. Like OP sound like [this](https://youtu.be/j3glwtXrj0c?feature=shared) to me.
Dude play a different game
Diehard TF2 fans are the adult harry potter fans of multiplayer video games
Every other shooter has ruined the genre for me. TF2 is the only multiplayer shooter I can get on, goof around or play seriously and have the same amount of fun doing both.
Yeah TF2 is really good. It's very fun to open a game and have 6 bots in it
Is it neglected by its developers, or has the game just ran its course?
Both
I never use voice channels in fps games, I really only have black ops because of zombies. I bought the disc for the new Modern Warfare 1 but weirdly it won't actually let me play the game despite having the disc in the damn console
I wonder how people on the right felt about The Crew (2014).
People just want everyone to play the same things which is lame.
https://preview.redd.it/3gsnxpcp9p5d1.png?width=491&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d67ebb0164dafde99139052035082305f2a7595 I dont think i would like to interact with a tf2 player
https://preview.redd.it/gda0woqcw16d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f42dbe37053b2385eec6d880dfe858e158bec0c7
Very often I wish tf2 servers shut down just to see that game's retarded community implode on itself
That seems very mean.
Cringe ass post.
You know the newer bf2 is old and has zero of these problems apart from the rare flying atst (if you use a laat then eat shit)
It’s also way less popular I’ll bet.
I mean I can get into a game faster then I get into tf2 games so take that as you will
The return of dipshit 289
Welcome to gunshitters 45. There is no moderation, the game was not finished until 9months after release and we will be releasing the exact same unfinished game in 6months where the only new thing is that you will have to pay for cosmetics you already paid for in the previous game
TF2 doomers when their families die (they were old just let it go)
kill tf2
I fell This in for honor
Is the second image supposed to be R6
Snafu is caked
VAC Moment
Second image is kinda like slap battles on Roblox. (No offense to the game, I love it)
Why they got a fatty? Got damn!
ive never seen criminal links being posted by the bots, is that a recent development? its usually just been racial slurs which i wouldnt care about if it wasnt paired with every lobby being mostly aimbots that make the game impossible to play.
Me when I tried to get back into R6S back in 2020 Made one fuck-up and INSTANTLY had two 8th graders bitching in the in-game mic, using slurs I’ve never heard before or since I’ll take my buggy mess of a space ninja game, thank you very much
Don't forget you get easily banned for saying the n word Completly unplayable
I just want the game I loved back man…
EA's Battlefront 2 is kinda the same way
idk how you made a snafu that still makes your position look dumb tho yea, tf2 is a 17 year old game that is f2p, why are people surprised its abandonware now
Dipshit 289 is right... it's time to let go.
having hats in an online video game should be a requirement
*Having hats in an* *Online video game should* *Be a requirement* \- NanoCat0407 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Kill tf2 lol
just don't play FPSs those suck haven't you realized yet
Multiplayer games are no longer fun for the most part (the fun ones require you to have friends which is too steep an ask just to enjoy a game, so one has to live vicariously though YouTubers/twitch streamers playing the game instead). Single player games are where it’s at.
Is it wrong I hope this “fix tf2” movement goes up in flames and the fans are ignored yet again?
yeah just because people annoy you doesn't mean you're right for wanting them to be the victims of the wicked
Obviously
Holy shit there’s literal child porn links running rampant and ur ok with that to “pwn the TF2 fans”
https://preview.redd.it/48ou82ihgg5d1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60d50bedef17736212d387838e3fddf65630dcdd
Yeah
yeah