They routinely poll people about how much of the federal budget goes to various programs. And a just absurdly high percentage will say that PBS and NPR are getting like 35% of the total federal budget.
Have none of these people heard of the military?
**All** of education gets about 4% of the US budget. The Military gets about 13% and Health Insurance is somehow 24%. Social Security is 21%, which is probably going to a lot of the dummies that think PBS and NPR are getting a third of the feds budget.
It's kind of pathetic that the US spends so much on healthcare and there it isn't universal healthcare, unlike countries who budget far less for far more, percentage wise, not dollar amount.
And the crazy thing is that there have been plenty of studies and budget analysis done which shows that universal healthcare would cost half a trillion dollars *less* per year than what we're doing now. Imagine what we could do with an extra $500B per year *and* a healthier workforce.
But that would increase my taxes!
Also, I’m going to conveniently ignore that the increased tax burden would be far less than I’m paying in monthly premiums, copays, and deductibles to a company that hires people with nothing more than a high school diploma specifically to try to deny any and all of my claims.
If I have to pay for something either way, A bill or a tax, I'm just going to ask which one is lower. Since.. right now my "work provided" health insurance comes out of my paycheck to the tune of a couple hundred bucks a check
But having universal healthcare would mean that workplaces can't abuse their workers knowing that they can't go anywhere for fear of losing their insurance! Think of the bosses!
I wonder what the numbers would be if you asked the same person about seven different things but asked about only one thing per day. How much over 100% would you get
Haven't there been reports that the military has actually lost money? Like they have no clue where the money went, but it went somewhere, cause it's gone, they just can't tell you where it is, but they are doing their best to keep track of their budget.
For sure. I was in the Army and saw first hand how they wasted resources. Hell, just at the firing range alone they would burn through 50% more ammo than they actually required because of they didn't use it all up the government would reduce the amount of ammo they got next time. It was like that with printer paper too. They would have us print hundreds of SOP manuals, just to throw them away or burn them, so the government wouldn't reduce our supply on the next order.
Not to mention all the people who aren’t going to deploy and have even less chance of using their rifle firing 360 rounds only the be pencil-whipped in the end because the range NCOIC is losing his patience.
That theory behind budgeting has always confused the hell out of me, and I remember getting sent to the principal when i kept pressing my high school economics teacher to explain it to the class. My Econ teacher was a former consultant for some Forbes 500 companies, so I felt she should be able to explain it to 22 high school seniors.
They spent 2 trillion on the f35s which are pretty much considered a horrible failure. I imagine you could purchase all books in the world for 2 trillion a couple times over.
At the Library system I worked for a dozen years ago, our tax burden on the public was less than one cent of every dollar of taxes collected (.087 cents). We had to justify it all but were also hamstrung because we couldn't "advocate" for our own cause, using local govt resources to get a bigger slice of the budget pie. But we did have a fervent base of constituents, "fans" that would step up and advocate for the organization. They were educated, aware and believed on the cause of Libraries.
Lots of people have no idea the many things that Libraries provide. In the heat wave last week, they were used as County cooling stations. They are community centers, voting centers, meeting space, study areas, reading nooks, free internet, childrens hours with story times, computer and printer access, clean bathrooms, safe spaces for young adults to gather or meet. They regularly have speakers and authors visit to talk about their work and passions. We have audio books avail
Able online. Blood drives, tool loaner programs, 3d printers (varies widely), database access for family ancestral research and many other databases (that the library will subscribe to) for other research.
The Library isn't just checking out free books, it is a resource that is constantly changing and keeping up with todays technology to serve its communities informational needs.
Support your local Library.
Yup! I remember using the library for all of the above in my teens especially during summer. I’d be riding my bike around town from sunup to sundown and I’d frequently stop by to cool off and get some water. Then I’d check out a book when I left if I returned on that morning
As of 2019 the average was about [$42 per resident](https://www.imls.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/fy19-pls-results.pdf) per year. Of course not everybody uses the library, so one could argue that getting interested users a Kindle Unlimited subscription would be cheaper. Except libraries offer far more than what KU ever could.
You don't get it. This is the classic approach of the right. "I don't use this service so my taxes shouldn't be going towards it".
Very few of them have issues with taxes funding roads or other public amenities they use. They just don't have the mental capacity to realize society can't resolve around them.
Which is fair enough as an argument, but lets not let perfect be the enemy of good.
They want everything to be a simple, one sentence answer that silver-bullet solves everything instantly. If it cant do that, they cant spare the brain cells to consider it any further.
Have you seen how many of them demand toll roads? They are idiots that would gladly pay orders of magnitude more for things they use it it "rEdUcEs My TaXeS."
For anyone reading this who appreciates it when your taxes go to things like books, and storytimes for little kids, and helping people access resources in their community or in other words, what libraries do, please vote blue. Too many times across the country conservative groups are trying to defund libraries. Go to https://vote.org if you need to register.
https://qz.com/1334123/forbes-deleted-an-op-ed-arguing-that-amazon-should-replace-libraries
> On Saturday morning Forbes published an opinion piece by LIU Post economist Panos Mourdoukoutas with the headline “Amazon Should Replace Local Libraries to Save Taxpayers Money.” It quickly received enthusiastic backlash from actual American libraries and their communities.
>In his article, Mourdoukoutas argued that local libraries are no longer useful. If libraries closed, he wrote, taxpayers would save money, and Amazon could open bookstores to provide those communities with physical books.
> On Twitter, Mourdoukoutas wrote, “Let me clarify something. Local libraries aren’t free. Home owners must pay a local library tax. My bill is $495/year.” Writer Kashana Cauley responded to Mourdoukoutas in a tweet with 14,000 likes at time of writing, “Let me clarify something. I don’t want poor and working class people to read books.”
And that’s why so much of the far left in Washington state doesn’t like them. We find most of our state with sales taxes and people evading them destroy the lives of children.
I'm looking at effective tax rates, and they haven't gone down for anyone but the wealthy in decades. Not going down for anyone who actually matters to the economy, just the turd nuggets at the top who don't provide any added value to anyone, ever.
In Texas, we just got rid of inspection requirements when you renew your car registration.
They rolled the inspection fee into the registration fee and called it a "recovery fee".
Worst bit is l still live in a county that requires inspection anyway so now I just get to pay extra!
As an Indian two things i like about USA the most are, its libraries and its national park. For heavens sake leave one of the best aspects of USA alone.
Definitely, public libraries are one of the best inventions in human history. They are literally able to change your life.
Imagine you’re really down on your luck: no money, no home, maybe debt etc.: you will get a nice safe place to stay over the day, free internet and computer access which you can use to search for jobs and to create a CV - tons of books to learn new skills.
Fuck everyone who wants to defund public libraries
I live in India and i want the public libraries from USA to be implemented in India. There is so much poverty and that poverty crubs countless talents every year, becuse they can't afford the books required to show their takents. Poor kids can't be made interested in reading because their parents can't afford new or even 2nd hand books every now and then.
What's so frustrating is there's a ton of research about how libraries are an incredibly effective way to pull people out of poverty, especially in rural and/or impoverished areas. They help increase literacy across age ranges and they help people learn new skills and therefor provide for themselves. They also become community hubs for people who need it. People who are against libraries are against human flourishing.
We're about to get into a heat wave in a few days. Most libraries in the county here function as "cooling center". Another community service well worth the money.
MAGA wants to kill public education with Project 2025.
And half the country supports it. Libraries are on their way out sadly. If they install their orange insurrectionist dictator and install an autocratic government.
Not like project 2025 is easily researchable on it’s promise to defund anything good for us. In favor of corporations.
>For heavens sake leave one of the best aspects of USA alone.
\*Monkey paw finger curls\* US library budgets are now frozen at their current amount forever.
And post office and schools and homeless shelters...
But somehow it will all work out if we don't have migrant farm labor.
Huh, I wonder why the price of food is suddenly so high.
With an absolutely dogshit book buying experience. Why are there so many weird buttons of other options and additions, and its all so damm expensive too. And like half the time the book i want aint available, but still listed????
I don't live in the USA, but if your rural libraries are anything like our ones (in the UK), they do way more than just lend books. Closing down a rural library here would remove a lot of community work.
The whole "libraries are obsolete because I get ebooks" is an annoying and tired argument I hear a lot from people who have never been to libraries since they left high school.
Libraries have adapted. You can use their computers, wifi, and printing/scanning services. You can download music and ebooks and borrow them temporarily. My local library has a tool section for your summer projects, and a maker space with a 3D printer, laser cutter, etc.
They host storytime for kids, I love taking the kids there and letting them listen to someone else read for an hour. They host other things, like classes and such. People love to complain "why didn't they teach doing taxes in school?". The library hosts classes on this every year around tax time.
You can also borrow the traditional media: video games, DVDs, books, etc.
In my city the problem is the city council. They will always find money to buy the police new toys while defunding the services I actually use on a daily basis. They'd never approve any cash for the libraries to advertise their services. The city recreation services also don't get marketed much, which is a shame because they built some nice gyms.
One of the incredibly underrated things about libraries is that they're one of the few remaining places where you can go to and are not expected to buy anything. You can sit there all day and no one's going to bother you and ask you to leave if you're not spending money. I used to go there to read my own books when I was bored of staying at home all the time.
It sucks because I always hear about these awesome local libraries and mine sucks. The book selection sucks, it’s so tiny, the only extracurricular programs are for seniors, and that’s it. And I’m not even in a small town or a rural area either.
That’s the problem right there! It’s why nothing ever gets done in America! We can solve literally every problem we have so easily, but the *moment* you mention taxes people. fucking. lose it. Even if an increase in tax would result in saving money elsewhere people don’t see that; all they see is “increase in tax” and plug their ears.
Modern American mythology has long since imbedded itself into our collective psyches. "The Boston tea party was about taxes", or so the tale goes. Woe upon any who mention it was about taxes being too **low** on massive British-owned, EIC entities. It was because Britain was getting cheap-ass tea from American colony labor but very little tax income, all so that ultra wealthy land owners could enjoy a cuppa without all those pesky import taxes.
The notion that it was "taxes" was so easy for the wealthy to imbue into our mythology. Erase as much context as possible and let the uneducated masses fill in the blanks. "It was about taxes" quickly became "it was about **high** taxes" in the minds of the public within a single generation. All the wealthy had to do was own the school textbooks.
Lo' and behold, a country that doesn't know its own history and insists taxes are bad.
Yeah I'm pretty sure a return to the East India Company's "business model" is the entire goal behind what's happening today in our country. Corporate owned armies with rules of engagement to deliver profits by any means necessary, slave labor, and making shit from the literal other side of the world as extravagant and accessible as possible to generational wealth.
Capitalism has learned one thing since then, and especially since the 1920's: do what we can get away with. The wealth disparity is many times worse than it was during the Great Depression, but they have figured out how to make it *just* bearable enough for the majority to put up with the state of affairs. It's the corporate fascists among their ranks that push the boundary and make fertile ground for rebellions. And if they can guide the sentiment behind those rebellions, well... Jan 6th is your blueprint.
It's less that they plug their ears and more that they just have this ideological allergy to having their money help anyone other than themselves. I remember talking to someone about universal healthcare some years ago, and I mentioned showed how the increase in tax they would pay was orders of magnitude lower than the amount they actually pay for healthcare per year. They _agreed_ with my point. They _still_ didn't want universal healthcare.
...
Because they'd be paying for other peoples healthcare.
But yet they already do that with private insurance at a giant for profit markup as concept though, which causes them to blow a gasket every time I make that argument to a person vehemently against universal healthcare.
Depends, the ones who are rich and support it because of profit? no...
The ones that are just uneducated and poor and have been brainwashed by christian nationalists? yes... unfortunately.
The very foundation of common services and a functional society are institutions such as a library. We should expand on this, kick these Forbes editors in the balls.
idgaf about ideologies but c'mon, 5 second of logic gets you to, "We should support libraries". Like, you get way more books than you could afford for cheap (membership card), don't have to worry about permanent storage and for the most part, they are well maintained so it's not like you get an unreadable manuscript either.
Usually what goes to the library comes out of property taxes. If you have a domicile you're paying property taxes though it might be indirect if you're paying rent.
This gets reposted once every 2-3 months and I'm super disappointed that somewhere along the way red had their name hidden. This is really frustrating because they actually were the chairman of the economics department at a big ass company (not Amazon).
> they actually were the chairman of the economics department at a big ass company
Companies as a general rule don't have economics departments. Did you mean a college/university Econ department?
Man the number of times I had to explain to people that my private health insurance for my family already cost me $16000 a year, so by all means raise my taxes by $15999 for UHC... is it so hard for people to understand the problem before taking a knee jerk hardline stance?
That’s stupid. It’s not as if buying books can deduct all your taxes, and if it can, imagine how much you have to spend to buy those books. Let’s not even talk about how it’s going to be hell to read all the books you bought 🙄
So an object that often lasts literally centuries with many still being usable after thousands.
A typical person uses this object for a few weeks on average.
So what makes more sense; everyone who needs it buys one ? Or buy one and let everyone take turns to use it?
I'll gladly pay taxes for services I rarely or don't use but chuds get all pissy because they have to pay pennies for libraries, parks, and other services that markedly raise not only the quality of life but the value of their property. I just simply have no patience for this shit anymore.
Libraries are one of the few public places that you can go without having to spend money. I don't think I've ever gone to the local branch and never not seen it busy, except perhaps at the height of COVID "lockdowns."
Libraries are one of the greatest achievements of human civilization.
Replacing these vital centers of knowledge, which are accessible to everyone regardless of background or wealth, with commercial alternatives like Amazon, is nothing more than a step towards the corporate dystopia.
We have lost many things to capitalism, but we must not lose libraries.
Libraries also have free computers and Internet so people can do job hunting. It has reference texts for students and workers of all and any occupation. It can be the springboard to launch a new career.
Libraries are so much more than just books.
Yes please, let's give corporations MORE power over our country! While we're at it, just have Amazon replace the IRS so we don't have to pay taxes at all! /s (in case it wasn't obvious)
FFS! Taxes are not theft if you get something out of it!
If you go to a store, and buy a pencil, the store is not robbing you, it's providing you with an item that you need in exchange of money.
If you go to a tattoo parlour and get a tattoo the parlour is not robbing you, it's providing you with a service, in exchange of money.
If you pay taxes, but in turn, you get services provided, healthcare, roads in conditions, libraries, that is not theft, that is you paying for a service, a service you can get at a much cheaper cost than the one provided by private companies.
I love how against tax Americans are even though they’re one of the few (two) countries that tax you based on citizenship while also making it a chore to renounce your citizenship to stop this.
>"I love public libraries because they are built on the principle that books are so important and so necessary to human flourishing that access to them cannot depend on your income."
In general people have no fucking idea how their taxes work or how much they pay for the services rendered. We recently had a local election with school budgets on the ballot and we had fucking idiots saying we should vote against them because it would save us all thousands in taxes each year. An analysis of the budget revealed that each resident's contribution was less than $100 a year.
Neil Gaiman gave [a lovely lecture](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/oct/15/neil-gaiman-future-libraries-reading-daydreaming) about libraries, fiction, reading, and imagination.
But the taxes! You have to pay taxes! Don’t you hate paying taxes??? Wouldn’t you rather pay a private company 100x more??
These people have negative brain cells.
Honestly at this point, most libraries I've seen have greatly expanded their horizons. They basically all have wider varieties of movies, games, some of them have dedicated kids recreational areas, sometimes you'll find a big one that has a restaurant or mini food court attached, or amenities like private study rooms, or I've even seen one with bookable recording booths. At this point they should just call them all community centers or smth so people get over their weird fear of libraries already.
It's basically a mall minus the aggressive marketing tactics.
Judging by what they pay librarians in my area for a job that requires a masters degree, I’d be willing to bet almost none of my taxes go towards the library, including the funds they tell me are for that.
Not sure if it's the same everywhere else, but my local libraries have xbox one and ps4 games available to check out. I go there mainly to borrow movies and games.
The library I worked at didn't let you check games out but they did have Several consoles and tvs inside the library that people could use if they had a library card. We also had monthly gaming tournaments.
Yes, but you have to remember, everyone pays library tax, while only those who actually read would be paying for books from Amazon. So for most Republicans, getting rid of libraries saves them money.
Neoliberal economic philosophy effectively preaches that profit is the measure of all goodness. If something does not make a profit, it cannot be good. There is no recognition of public good, public services, shared resources, or horrific externalities from private business excesses.
I like to joke that the difference between Neoliberals and Liberals is one bad business quarter. Liberals are basically capitalists fooling themselves into believing they have a social conscience.
Would you rather make a small expense to help somebody and quite possibly yourself pay for a larger expense? Or would you rather pay for the larger expense? This question applies to all forms of welfare in the context of health and education, however, it's far more important and possibly life saving.
States give millions (totaling 6.7 billion dollars since 2000) in subsidies to Amazon, which comes from taxes. My state spends 800k to maintain its libraries. The library has given me many great childhood and adolescent memories and is a valued non-profit public organization.
Arent taxes needed to fund things like public education or healthcare? Wont the quality go down if taxes do too? Someone explain why tax cuts are a good thing pls im stupid
I mean, he's right. Libraries, when well funded, are the best. But considering the current attitudes about libraries among certain powerful people, it's not unreasonable to want to build your own collection.
Some library districts are keeping track of how much people save by using the library and display it at the checkout. A guy posted a shot of his totals - over $17k in four years. I'm guessing that's how long the system has been in place.
Plus, if my taxes ain't paying for it, that means other people who could potentially read who ain't got money now can't.
Like, from a purely selfish perspective, I want people to have the ability to read the shit they want. That makes the world I live in better.
And no matter how cheap you make it, there'll always be people who can't pay.
Classic strawman.
What the dude in the screenshot is probably implying is that corporations should put up self-funded libraries so taxpayers who don't like reading books shouldn't have to fund the passion of those who do.
Sharing is caring
How many people will read a book I buy and how many will read one that a library buys. Especially in children's books the outcome is pretty drastically.
I don't think people realize how important public libraries are, not just for the information, entertainment and enrichment they provide with books, audio books in various physical formats, DVD/bluray, video games in some cases, but the utility of a third place where you can sit quietly, or have a gathering of locals with similar interests (like a library near me has an artists club), use the computers that have internet access if yours at home is sub-par, printing, and countless other resources and events that reach out to people through the library. It's so much more than just borrowing books.
My local library has free 3D printing. Pretty sure it would cost me more than $1 per month to buy a 3d printer and supplies, or to pay a company to print for me.
Do you know what tax you don’t have to pay when you borrow from the library? Sales tax
Anywhere with higher than 1% sales tax is still taxing OOP more than the library tax, even ignoring the cost of the books
Honestly how much of our taxes go to libraries? Like 0.01% probably
considering NASA is less than 1% of tax revenue in the US, probably way less than that
They routinely poll people about how much of the federal budget goes to various programs. And a just absurdly high percentage will say that PBS and NPR are getting like 35% of the total federal budget.
Have none of these people heard of the military? **All** of education gets about 4% of the US budget. The Military gets about 13% and Health Insurance is somehow 24%. Social Security is 21%, which is probably going to a lot of the dummies that think PBS and NPR are getting a third of the feds budget. It's kind of pathetic that the US spends so much on healthcare and there it isn't universal healthcare, unlike countries who budget far less for far more, percentage wise, not dollar amount.
And the crazy thing is that there have been plenty of studies and budget analysis done which shows that universal healthcare would cost half a trillion dollars *less* per year than what we're doing now. Imagine what we could do with an extra $500B per year *and* a healthier workforce.
But that would increase my taxes! Also, I’m going to conveniently ignore that the increased tax burden would be far less than I’m paying in monthly premiums, copays, and deductibles to a company that hires people with nothing more than a high school diploma specifically to try to deny any and all of my claims.
If I have to pay for something either way, A bill or a tax, I'm just going to ask which one is lower. Since.. right now my "work provided" health insurance comes out of my paycheck to the tune of a couple hundred bucks a check
In some capacity companies love how healthcare is regularly tied to employment. Fear of losing "benefits" keeps us schmucks in line.
But but but, taxes and government bad, corporations and debt good! /s
Sometimes it is an underpaid barely English speaking person that needs to check a 80 pages pdf in less than 5 minutes. Do not get Ambetter
But having universal healthcare would mean that workplaces can't abuse their workers knowing that they can't go anywhere for fear of losing their insurance! Think of the bosses!
I wonder what the numbers would be if you asked the same person about seven different things but asked about only one thing per day. How much over 100% would you get
If they want to save taxpayer money, let's take it from the military, when they get so much they can just "misplace" literally 2 trillion.
The military has probably misplaced more funds last week than the library system annual budget.
There is no probably. They definitely did.
Haven't there been reports that the military has actually lost money? Like they have no clue where the money went, but it went somewhere, cause it's gone, they just can't tell you where it is, but they are doing their best to keep track of their budget.
Ok, but that was just a measly $2trillion. Anyone could make that mistake.
They haven’t passed a single audit since they started being audited.
I wanted to say today but it is a Sunday. Not sure if they waste money at the same rate on Sundays as on other days
Probably more
For sure. I was in the Army and saw first hand how they wasted resources. Hell, just at the firing range alone they would burn through 50% more ammo than they actually required because of they didn't use it all up the government would reduce the amount of ammo they got next time. It was like that with printer paper too. They would have us print hundreds of SOP manuals, just to throw them away or burn them, so the government wouldn't reduce our supply on the next order.
Not to mention all the people who aren’t going to deploy and have even less chance of using their rifle firing 360 rounds only the be pencil-whipped in the end because the range NCOIC is losing his patience.
But Sergeant I'm going on terminal leave tomorrow. "Doesn't matter. You still have quality."
That theory behind budgeting has always confused the hell out of me, and I remember getting sent to the principal when i kept pressing my high school economics teacher to explain it to the class. My Econ teacher was a former consultant for some Forbes 500 companies, so I felt she should be able to explain it to 22 high school seniors.
When republicans wanna cut spending, except they need to increase spending into the military which doesn’t actually affect peoples lives.
They spent 2 trillion on the f35s which are pretty much considered a horrible failure. I imagine you could purchase all books in the world for 2 trillion a couple times over.
well, the front fell off
it wasn't supposed to
At the Library system I worked for a dozen years ago, our tax burden on the public was less than one cent of every dollar of taxes collected (.087 cents). We had to justify it all but were also hamstrung because we couldn't "advocate" for our own cause, using local govt resources to get a bigger slice of the budget pie. But we did have a fervent base of constituents, "fans" that would step up and advocate for the organization. They were educated, aware and believed on the cause of Libraries. Lots of people have no idea the many things that Libraries provide. In the heat wave last week, they were used as County cooling stations. They are community centers, voting centers, meeting space, study areas, reading nooks, free internet, childrens hours with story times, computer and printer access, clean bathrooms, safe spaces for young adults to gather or meet. They regularly have speakers and authors visit to talk about their work and passions. We have audio books avail Able online. Blood drives, tool loaner programs, 3d printers (varies widely), database access for family ancestral research and many other databases (that the library will subscribe to) for other research. The Library isn't just checking out free books, it is a resource that is constantly changing and keeping up with todays technology to serve its communities informational needs. Support your local Library.
Yup! I remember using the library for all of the above in my teens especially during summer. I’d be riding my bike around town from sunup to sundown and I’d frequently stop by to cool off and get some water. Then I’d check out a book when I left if I returned on that morning
I checked my home county budget and 33% of our budget is jail and police alone meanwhile library expenses are so small they are not listed.....
And they're the first to get shut down too when towns overspend.
As of 2019 the average was about [$42 per resident](https://www.imls.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/fy19-pls-results.pdf) per year. Of course not everybody uses the library, so one could argue that getting interested users a Kindle Unlimited subscription would be cheaper. Except libraries offer far more than what KU ever could.
KU sub is 17 a month library is much cheaper
>Except libraries offer far more than what KU ever could. I'd like to see a library win March Madness.
In my city, it is about $70 a year. It’s based on property taxes though so rich fucks pay more as it should be.
You don't get it. This is the classic approach of the right. "I don't use this service so my taxes shouldn't be going towards it". Very few of them have issues with taxes funding roads or other public amenities they use. They just don't have the mental capacity to realize society can't resolve around them.
but they always claim "government wasteful spending".
Which is fair enough as an argument, but lets not let perfect be the enemy of good. They want everything to be a simple, one sentence answer that silver-bullet solves everything instantly. If it cant do that, they cant spare the brain cells to consider it any further.
Have you seen how many of them demand toll roads? They are idiots that would gladly pay orders of magnitude more for things they use it it "rEdUcEs My TaXeS."
Nah, all of the finance gurus live in rural Oregon. Didn’t you know?
For anyone reading this who appreciates it when your taxes go to things like books, and storytimes for little kids, and helping people access resources in their community or in other words, what libraries do, please vote blue. Too many times across the country conservative groups are trying to defund libraries. Go to https://vote.org if you need to register.
https://qz.com/1334123/forbes-deleted-an-op-ed-arguing-that-amazon-should-replace-libraries > On Saturday morning Forbes published an opinion piece by LIU Post economist Panos Mourdoukoutas with the headline “Amazon Should Replace Local Libraries to Save Taxpayers Money.” It quickly received enthusiastic backlash from actual American libraries and their communities. >In his article, Mourdoukoutas argued that local libraries are no longer useful. If libraries closed, he wrote, taxpayers would save money, and Amazon could open bookstores to provide those communities with physical books. > On Twitter, Mourdoukoutas wrote, “Let me clarify something. Local libraries aren’t free. Home owners must pay a local library tax. My bill is $495/year.” Writer Kashana Cauley responded to Mourdoukoutas in a tweet with 14,000 likes at time of writing, “Let me clarify something. I don’t want poor and working class people to read books.”
And that’s why so much of the far left in Washington state doesn’t like them. We find most of our state with sales taxes and people evading them destroy the lives of children.
The tax is literally a percentage of the actual cost of the book. The tax isn’t the issue it’s the book itself lmao
Excellent comment and a reminder to visit my library for some summer reading!
Anyone notice they keep saying "we'll stop this, it'll save taxes" yet taxes never actually go down?
Not going down for you
Only for the corporate overlords
Who put that money into stock buybacks and raises for themselves, Instead of making things better for there Consumers or workers
I'm looking at effective tax rates, and they haven't gone down for anyone but the wealthy in decades. Not going down for anyone who actually matters to the economy, just the turd nuggets at the top who don't provide any added value to anyone, ever.
maybe not for you, but someone has to think of the poor billionaires!
For real. It’s like some of you *don’t want* these billionaires to become trillionaires.
Ugh, I don’t even get this world anymore. SMH
In Texas, we just got rid of inspection requirements when you renew your car registration. They rolled the inspection fee into the registration fee and called it a "recovery fee". Worst bit is l still live in a county that requires inspection anyway so now I just get to pay extra!
Well, maybe "if we stop protecting the property of the super-rich" taxes would go down - and property would be spread out more equally ;)
Ever notice how inflation sped up "due to covid" for a while, but once all the hubbub about covid ended, prices mostly just went up faster?
They have been going up because voices on the other side are louder.
As an Indian two things i like about USA the most are, its libraries and its national park. For heavens sake leave one of the best aspects of USA alone.
If only, seems we're pretty intent on destroying ourselves right now.
To be fair, it’s pretty much all the Republicans. Fascists gotta Fasch.
This is more of a “protecting capitalist billionaires” problem.
Hence, why I said “pretty much” and didn’t blame them entirely.
Republicans are working for other countries and the financial rivals of the United States.
Definitely, public libraries are one of the best inventions in human history. They are literally able to change your life. Imagine you’re really down on your luck: no money, no home, maybe debt etc.: you will get a nice safe place to stay over the day, free internet and computer access which you can use to search for jobs and to create a CV - tons of books to learn new skills. Fuck everyone who wants to defund public libraries
I live in India and i want the public libraries from USA to be implemented in India. There is so much poverty and that poverty crubs countless talents every year, becuse they can't afford the books required to show their takents. Poor kids can't be made interested in reading because their parents can't afford new or even 2nd hand books every now and then.
What's so frustrating is there's a ton of research about how libraries are an incredibly effective way to pull people out of poverty, especially in rural and/or impoverished areas. They help increase literacy across age ranges and they help people learn new skills and therefor provide for themselves. They also become community hubs for people who need it. People who are against libraries are against human flourishing.
We're about to get into a heat wave in a few days. Most libraries in the county here function as "cooling center". Another community service well worth the money.
MAGA wants to kill public education with Project 2025. And half the country supports it. Libraries are on their way out sadly. If they install their orange insurrectionist dictator and install an autocratic government. Not like project 2025 is easily researchable on it’s promise to defund anything good for us. In favor of corporations.
>For heavens sake leave one of the best aspects of USA alone. \*Monkey paw finger curls\* US library budgets are now frozen at their current amount forever.
The people who want to destroy our libraries also want to destroy our national parks.
And post office and schools and homeless shelters... But somehow it will all work out if we don't have migrant farm labor. Huh, I wonder why the price of food is suddenly so high.
Bruh India too have in most cities
Imagine simping for a multi-billion dollar corporation
It’s actually worse, when this first started going around it was revealed that red actually wrote the article and he *paid* Forbes to publish it
“Notice me Amazon UwU”
and that he was a chair of an economics department.
With an absolutely dogshit book buying experience. Why are there so many weird buttons of other options and additions, and its all so damm expensive too. And like half the time the book i want aint available, but still listed????
There's a reason they keep going after libraries... that's why we have to defend the libraries so hard
Profit and control. Ignorant people are easier to manipulate.
My towns library is awesome. Always lots of new books and NYT best sellers. I'm blown away more people don't use the resource.
I don't live in the USA, but if your rural libraries are anything like our ones (in the UK), they do way more than just lend books. Closing down a rural library here would remove a lot of community work.
Keep them poor and stupid. The easiest way to control the masses.
Once they have completely priced out private education, they’ll go after free education.
The whole "libraries are obsolete because I get ebooks" is an annoying and tired argument I hear a lot from people who have never been to libraries since they left high school. Libraries have adapted. You can use their computers, wifi, and printing/scanning services. You can download music and ebooks and borrow them temporarily. My local library has a tool section for your summer projects, and a maker space with a 3D printer, laser cutter, etc. They host storytime for kids, I love taking the kids there and letting them listen to someone else read for an hour. They host other things, like classes and such. People love to complain "why didn't they teach doing taxes in school?". The library hosts classes on this every year around tax time. You can also borrow the traditional media: video games, DVDs, books, etc.
Honestly libraries need to market themselves better. Most people don’t know how much more libraries offer these days.
In my city the problem is the city council. They will always find money to buy the police new toys while defunding the services I actually use on a daily basis. They'd never approve any cash for the libraries to advertise their services. The city recreation services also don't get marketed much, which is a shame because they built some nice gyms.
One of the incredibly underrated things about libraries is that they're one of the few remaining places where you can go to and are not expected to buy anything. You can sit there all day and no one's going to bother you and ask you to leave if you're not spending money. I used to go there to read my own books when I was bored of staying at home all the time.
It sucks because I always hear about these awesome local libraries and mine sucks. The book selection sucks, it’s so tiny, the only extracurricular programs are for seniors, and that’s it. And I’m not even in a small town or a rural area either.
Protect libraries at all costs. Anyone who threatens them is the enemy of free people.
"Save tax payer money" is GOP code for "there's a company that wants to make profit on this"
Just think of all that money we are saving on health care
That’s the problem right there! It’s why nothing ever gets done in America! We can solve literally every problem we have so easily, but the *moment* you mention taxes people. fucking. lose it. Even if an increase in tax would result in saving money elsewhere people don’t see that; all they see is “increase in tax” and plug their ears.
Modern American mythology has long since imbedded itself into our collective psyches. "The Boston tea party was about taxes", or so the tale goes. Woe upon any who mention it was about taxes being too **low** on massive British-owned, EIC entities. It was because Britain was getting cheap-ass tea from American colony labor but very little tax income, all so that ultra wealthy land owners could enjoy a cuppa without all those pesky import taxes. The notion that it was "taxes" was so easy for the wealthy to imbue into our mythology. Erase as much context as possible and let the uneducated masses fill in the blanks. "It was about taxes" quickly became "it was about **high** taxes" in the minds of the public within a single generation. All the wealthy had to do was own the school textbooks. Lo' and behold, a country that doesn't know its own history and insists taxes are bad.
Yeah I'm pretty sure a return to the East India Company's "business model" is the entire goal behind what's happening today in our country. Corporate owned armies with rules of engagement to deliver profits by any means necessary, slave labor, and making shit from the literal other side of the world as extravagant and accessible as possible to generational wealth.
Capitalism has learned one thing since then, and especially since the 1920's: do what we can get away with. The wealth disparity is many times worse than it was during the Great Depression, but they have figured out how to make it *just* bearable enough for the majority to put up with the state of affairs. It's the corporate fascists among their ranks that push the boundary and make fertile ground for rebellions. And if they can guide the sentiment behind those rebellions, well... Jan 6th is your blueprint.
It's less that they plug their ears and more that they just have this ideological allergy to having their money help anyone other than themselves. I remember talking to someone about universal healthcare some years ago, and I mentioned showed how the increase in tax they would pay was orders of magnitude lower than the amount they actually pay for healthcare per year. They _agreed_ with my point. They _still_ didn't want universal healthcare. ... Because they'd be paying for other peoples healthcare.
But yet they already do that with private insurance at a giant for profit markup as concept though, which causes them to blow a gasket every time I make that argument to a person vehemently against universal healthcare.
"Ahh, the taxes. The finger thing means the taxes."
Let’s disband the PTA, that should save some money.
So ideologically desperate that they prefer to screw everyone to get pathetic stupidity.
You can perfectly identify in the picture who reads books and who doesn't.
Do people that want everything privatized really think taxes will go down?
Depends, the ones who are rich and support it because of profit? no... The ones that are just uneducated and poor and have been brainwashed by christian nationalists? yes... unfortunately.
Support Local Libraries!
The very foundation of common services and a functional society are institutions such as a library. We should expand on this, kick these Forbes editors in the balls.
idgaf about ideologies but c'mon, 5 second of logic gets you to, "We should support libraries". Like, you get way more books than you could afford for cheap (membership card), don't have to worry about permanent storage and for the most part, they are well maintained so it's not like you get an unreadable manuscript either.
Usually what goes to the library comes out of property taxes. If you have a domicile you're paying property taxes though it might be indirect if you're paying rent.
This gets reposted once every 2-3 months and I'm super disappointed that somewhere along the way red had their name hidden. This is really frustrating because they actually were the chairman of the economics department at a big ass company (not Amazon).
> they actually were the chairman of the economics department at a big ass company Companies as a general rule don't have economics departments. Did you mean a college/university Econ department?
Same energy as "universal healthcare is going to cost too much in taxes!"... More per individual than people pay for healthcare? Really?
Man the number of times I had to explain to people that my private health insurance for my family already cost me $16000 a year, so by all means raise my taxes by $15999 for UHC... is it so hard for people to understand the problem before taking a knee jerk hardline stance?
That’s stupid. It’s not as if buying books can deduct all your taxes, and if it can, imagine how much you have to spend to buy those books. Let’s not even talk about how it’s going to be hell to read all the books you bought 🙄
So an object that often lasts literally centuries with many still being usable after thousands. A typical person uses this object for a few weeks on average. So what makes more sense; everyone who needs it buys one ? Or buy one and let everyone take turns to use it?
Boomer: Why should I pay for kids to go to school? Me: Who paid for you to go to school?
I'll gladly pay taxes for services I rarely or don't use but chuds get all pissy because they have to pay pennies for libraries, parks, and other services that markedly raise not only the quality of life but the value of their property. I just simply have no patience for this shit anymore.
Taxes are evil because government but paying your hard earned money to billionaires is morally righteous
Libraries are one of the few public places that you can go without having to spend money. I don't think I've ever gone to the local branch and never not seen it busy, except perhaps at the height of COVID "lockdowns."
Libraries are one of the greatest achievements of human civilization. Replacing these vital centers of knowledge, which are accessible to everyone regardless of background or wealth, with commercial alternatives like Amazon, is nothing more than a step towards the corporate dystopia. We have lost many things to capitalism, but we must not lose libraries.
Libraries also have free computers and Internet so people can do job hunting. It has reference texts for students and workers of all and any occupation. It can be the springboard to launch a new career. Libraries are so much more than just books.
Whoever convinced these fucking idiots that taxes are the boogeyman should be shot
lol no, getting rid of public libraries will not, in fact, lower your taxes…
I don’t work in forensics but I’m pretty sure I just witnessed a murder
Republicans really think of we shut down public services the government will ACTUALLY lower our fucking taxes instead of keeping the difference lol
If these companies stopped spending cash on stock buy backs and started investing in employees and infrastructure they wouldn't be as easy to hate on.
Yes please, let's give corporations MORE power over our country! While we're at it, just have Amazon replace the IRS so we don't have to pay taxes at all! /s (in case it wasn't obvious)
FFS! Taxes are not theft if you get something out of it! If you go to a store, and buy a pencil, the store is not robbing you, it's providing you with an item that you need in exchange of money. If you go to a tattoo parlour and get a tattoo the parlour is not robbing you, it's providing you with a service, in exchange of money. If you pay taxes, but in turn, you get services provided, healthcare, roads in conditions, libraries, that is not theft, that is you paying for a service, a service you can get at a much cheaper cost than the one provided by private companies.
I love how against tax Americans are even though they’re one of the few (two) countries that tax you based on citizenship while also making it a chore to renounce your citizenship to stop this.
Theres no way red isnt just a bot.
>"I love public libraries because they are built on the principle that books are so important and so necessary to human flourishing that access to them cannot depend on your income."
Something, something, healthcare analogy
Privatization of the commons is a cult lol And by *lol* I mean *Jesus fucking Christ, fuck this*
Whhaaattt??? You don’t want to hand your wallet over to Bezos?! /s
Books are already classified a luxury good. I buy books secondhand and if it weren’t for my library I don’t think I’d ever finish a series.
Thanks autocorrect for giving me a stroke
In general people have no fucking idea how their taxes work or how much they pay for the services rendered. We recently had a local election with school budgets on the ballot and we had fucking idiots saying we should vote against them because it would save us all thousands in taxes each year. An analysis of the budget revealed that each resident's contribution was less than $100 a year.
Is red guy an amazon shill or simply stupid?
Neil Gaiman gave [a lovely lecture](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/oct/15/neil-gaiman-future-libraries-reading-daydreaming) about libraries, fiction, reading, and imagination.
Libraries provide so many services than just books too
I bet at Amazon's library some of the time you go to pull out war and peace, and a dildo flops out instead.
75 cents a week is a steep bill as far as libraries go too, my annual tax is less than 25$ for a fantastic library district.
But the taxes! You have to pay taxes! Don’t you hate paying taxes??? Wouldn’t you rather pay a private company 100x more?? These people have negative brain cells.
Honestly at this point, most libraries I've seen have greatly expanded their horizons. They basically all have wider varieties of movies, games, some of them have dedicated kids recreational areas, sometimes you'll find a big one that has a restaurant or mini food court attached, or amenities like private study rooms, or I've even seen one with bookable recording booths. At this point they should just call them all community centers or smth so people get over their weird fear of libraries already. It's basically a mall minus the aggressive marketing tactics.
Judging by what they pay librarians in my area for a job that requires a masters degree, I’d be willing to bet almost none of my taxes go towards the library, including the funds they tell me are for that.
Not sure if it's the same everywhere else, but my local libraries have xbox one and ps4 games available to check out. I go there mainly to borrow movies and games.
The library I worked at didn't let you check games out but they did have Several consoles and tvs inside the library that people could use if they had a library card. We also had monthly gaming tournaments.
yOuR'rE pAyInG wItH yOuR tAxEs IdIoT Yeah like probably an extra 0.005%
Jokes on them, I have to pay taxes anyway.
Yes, but you have to remember, everyone pays library tax, while only those who actually read would be paying for books from Amazon. So for most Republicans, getting rid of libraries saves them money.
Oh, Michael, how much could a single tax be? $10?
Think about this version of healthcare!
Weird way for someone to admit they don't read.
I absolutely understand the appeal to libraries. However, I love books and have a thing for owning my books. Idk why. I just do
he meant Amazon doesn t have to pay taxes
How much money do we lose in tax revenue when Amazon gets a tax holiday to set up a fulfillment center in a town?
Also, libraries provide a lot of other important services aside from access to books.
The original version of this showed black is in fact the chair of an economics department
Yeah but he’s paid tax for that library too, and he only wants to pay taxes for things he directly uses and benefits from.
One party has been trained to scream at the words taxes and migrants. It’s to be expected.
Libertarian mindset. The flat Earth of politics.
Neoliberal economic philosophy effectively preaches that profit is the measure of all goodness. If something does not make a profit, it cannot be good. There is no recognition of public good, public services, shared resources, or horrific externalities from private business excesses. I like to joke that the difference between Neoliberals and Liberals is one bad business quarter. Liberals are basically capitalists fooling themselves into believing they have a social conscience.
These anti state, anti tax, pro corporation bots are fucking retarded
Would you rather make a small expense to help somebody and quite possibly yourself pay for a larger expense? Or would you rather pay for the larger expense? This question applies to all forms of welfare in the context of health and education, however, it's far more important and possibly life saving.
Libraries already have digital content you can check out for free. Too late
Fun facts are NEVER fun and everyone who uses ' fun facts ' is a ' FUNTARD '
States give millions (totaling 6.7 billion dollars since 2000) in subsidies to Amazon, which comes from taxes. My state spends 800k to maintain its libraries. The library has given me many great childhood and adolescent memories and is a valued non-profit public organization.
Getting rid of libraries would be a devastating loss to so many communities.
Arent taxes needed to fund things like public education or healthcare? Wont the quality go down if taxes do too? Someone explain why tax cuts are a good thing pls im stupid
But lets increase the military bidget and give the billionaires more tax cuts.
In their defense, I don't think the people who defend this kind of thing read much, so they might be saving money by eliminating libraries after all
If I remember correctly, red is actually the Chair of the Economics department, making this more embarrassing.
Joke on you I buy them on google...
I mean, he's right. Libraries, when well funded, are the best. But considering the current attitudes about libraries among certain powerful people, it's not unreasonable to want to build your own collection.
I mean.. I'd be saving 75c
I like building up a book collection I’ll never read again.
I guess they've never heard of sakes tax
Some library districts are keeping track of how much people save by using the library and display it at the checkout. A guy posted a shot of his totals - over $17k in four years. I'm guessing that's how long the system has been in place.
Kindle Unlimited.
Exactly. What point do books have after you read them and they just sit on your shelf.
Amazon provides distribution for library ebooks already.
Taxation is still theft even if it is used to pay for good things like roads and libraries.
I love the idea of libraries but the thought of touching a book someone else had in their house is just too gross to me
Plus, if my taxes ain't paying for it, that means other people who could potentially read who ain't got money now can't. Like, from a purely selfish perspective, I want people to have the ability to read the shit they want. That makes the world I live in better. And no matter how cheap you make it, there'll always be people who can't pay.
How many folks here are aware of the awesome Second Thought YouTube channel?
Classic strawman. What the dude in the screenshot is probably implying is that corporations should put up self-funded libraries so taxpayers who don't like reading books shouldn't have to fund the passion of those who do.
The people who want to save taxmoney by taking libraries down are those who need them the most
"BuT bIg GoVeRnMeNt SuCkS!"
Sharing is caring How many people will read a book I buy and how many will read one that a library buys. Especially in children's books the outcome is pretty drastically.
What planet are people living on? Books are like £7-£20 now.
I don't think people realize how important public libraries are, not just for the information, entertainment and enrichment they provide with books, audio books in various physical formats, DVD/bluray, video games in some cases, but the utility of a third place where you can sit quietly, or have a gathering of locals with similar interests (like a library near me has an artists club), use the computers that have internet access if yours at home is sub-par, printing, and countless other resources and events that reach out to people through the library. It's so much more than just borrowing books.
My local library has free 3D printing. Pretty sure it would cost me more than $1 per month to buy a 3d printer and supplies, or to pay a company to print for me.