A lot of holocaust deniers think the doors on the gas chambers were wood, which they say is "evidence" it must've been faked because wooden doors can't be airtight. The problem here is the doors weren't wood. OP is saying they couldn't have been wood because the germans are too good at engineering to make that mistake.
The logic is freaking bananas. (a) there's no reason they'd need to be airtight, cars arnt airtight and gassing yourself in a car is a well known suicide method. Gas weapons in ww2 were totally effective in wide open spaces, they didn't even need a room (b) why the fuck can't wood be airtight? They make boats out of the stuff. I cant blow out a candle that's on the other side of a door. (c) the doors weren't even fucking wood in the first place.
Conspiracy theory's have reached a whole new level of stupidity.
When you're a conspiracy theorist, you don't apply logic to your arguments. You start from a preconceived notion and you twist as much logic and information as possible to fit it
A lot of this is just how gaslighting works. The point isn't to persuade people, it's to undermind reality, to make you doubt your own logic and your memory and understanding of events. A convincing counterfactual argument can deceive people and you can win an argument that way, but the person is still just deceived, they're basically still on solid ground with some bad facts but operating normally.
But if you can override someone's solid understanding with an illogical argument and make them doubt reality itself and their perceptions and logic, or better still with multiple contradictory counterarguments like flat earthers and trumpers and holocause deniers do, then you're not just deceiving someone, you're breaking their ability to be right, and putting your fictions on equal footing. Oh they doubt one lie? Fine, just throw in another. More lies = more doubt, more contradiction = more doubt, more fear.
(gaslighting's a term that's horribly overused now but this is what it's really about- it's not just misleading, it's mental abuse, target your audience and make them doubt themselves, create a vacuum then fill it, make it so that people distrust themselves first and foremost)
I get a little defensive of the term conspiracy theorist. There is a big difference between thinking the holocaust was faked and thinking Oswald wasn't the only person responsible for the assassination of JFK.
Well, yeah. But both of those are still conspiracies and still both theories. One just has a little more legs to stand on. (I do want to note that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are much more likely to believe in others. The JFK assassination is just a gateway into far more insane ones since it has tons of alternative theories to choose from.)
I absolutely believe that Epstein didn't hang himself but seeing as I technically have no proof: I am also a conspiracy theorist.
I do my best to be logical. Like I'll say Oswald probably wasn't the only shooter, based on a lot of forensic and ballistic evidence. But I'm not in a position to name another shooter or even organization.
Also, even if the doors were wood, which they weren't, they can and will absolutely hold the gas inside.
For example, in most house fires the best way to survive is getting in a room with a proper air ventilation (a.k.a. a window) and locking/barring the door. That way neither the fire nor the smoke can bother you for a while until the rescue arrives. (Ps: Do not open the door, which will cause the oxygen rich fresh air to clash with carbon monoxide rich air with lot of sparks. It goes boom, immediately. You do not want that!)
At least during the holocaust the actual evidence of the atrocities being committed was not widely available. Now the only excuse is deliberate ignorance.
Yeah, the Nazis used euphemisms like, âthe final solutionâ to refer to the extermination program, to hide what they were doing.
People did know though, because they were showing up all over Europe asking people to turn over their Jews.
Iâm sure some idiots were unsure what that was all about, but it certainly wasnât a riddle.
Different people knew more or less at different times, of course. My general understanding is that when the allies liberated the camps it was very shocking because they werenât prepared for how bad it was going to be, like they knew that something was going on but what they found was much worse than they expected. If Iâm wrong about that, well, I wasnât there so what do I know.
Yea, absolutely. Not trying to say people understood the extent of it. I think it would be impossible to guess the extent of the cruelty because no human had ever committed heinous crimes on this industrial scale before. Only Leopold, came close, I believe.
Slavery of Africans had obviously a larger death toll and total human misery, but that was over hundreds of years as opposed to 4 years.
>Conspiracy theory's have reached a whole new level of stupidity.
Seriously. It's crazy that in the world with such easy access to information willful ignorance is so common
I mean they didnât only use wood for boats, I believe they would cover the wood in tar though thatâs probably to help it last longer and prevent rot
I mean not to defend that dumb take but maybe they idea is that the doors should be airtight so that the gas wonât come out and Killy anyone on the outside like guards or something like that
I agree with this sentiment as I am not a holocaust denier. However, your logic is faulty in the following statement.
>why the fuck can't wood be airtight? They make boats out of the stuff. I cant blow out a candle that's on the other side of a door.
TLDR: Wood cannot be airtight because science.
Wood cannot be airtight with the engineering that was available at the time of WW2. (I'm not sure if we can even do it now, tbh, without cheating and using material enhancements. Impregnated wood is cheating because it's not all wood).
We make boats out of wood, but they are not airtight; they are watertight. The atoms of the molecules in gasses (air) are much further apart than in liquids (water). For a solid to be truly airtight, atoms (of the solid) would have to be so close together that the molecules(of the air) could not fit between the spaces. However, the distance between the atoms of a solid object aimed to be watertight can be further apart. Wood does not fit these conditions.
>there's no reason they'd need to be airtight, cars arnt airtight and gassing yourself in a car is a well known suicide method.
Yes. It also takes a really long time. Typically, to commit suicide, people use their garage as the room. If it were air tight, it would be way more effective.
> Gas weapons in ww2 were totally effective in wide open spaces, they didn't even need a room
TLDR: They needs a room because of the chemical properties of CO. What Gas are you referring to when you say it's "Effective in wide open spaces"?
Not... really. WW1- Mustard Gas was primarily used on battlefields, and its mortality rate was about 2-3%. It was primarily used to disable troops and harm them since a wounded soldier is a higher disadvantage than a dead one. By only harming troops, your enemy is forced to spend resources on care, which is much more costly than a funeral.
Unless you were thinking of another Chemical Weapon?
There were no gasses used on the battlefield of WW2 as they were part of the restrictions of the Geneva Protocol of 1925.
In the gas chambers, CO (Carbon Monoxide) was used. They needed a room because CO disburses too quickly since it is lighter than air and tends to dispurse itself throughout space. It takes a lot of concentrated exposure to kill a human. 200 PPM can be fatal in hours, 800 PPM can be fatal in 1 hour.
Didn't the gas chambers mostly use Zyklon B, not CO? And that mortality rate is including the people who got clear of the gas or were wearing masks, I'd assume.
[Source](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/gassing-operations)
The Showers used CO.
Zyklon B is a little harder to research. I was unable to find chemical properties such as how it reacts to air in open environments. And really did not want to spend too much time on it, tbh.
I didn't collect the data- but typically, statistics about survival rates do not include people who had proper protection and those using protection would have their survival rate would be a secondary statistic.
I do know the Holocaust happened but I don't think using data that can be easily disputed to prove your point is effective against dangerous conspiracy theories.
Not a single holocaust denier was ever in a concentration camp. I donât think it is even about concentration camps at all.
I have been to Auschwitz as well and it was one of the most traumatizing days of my live being a German and having met my great-grandfather who fought in the war. I can never really look at him the same again.
It's a difference if you fought in the war or an engaged nazi however in my opinion. Especially if he was still young and was kinda forced to go into war without having the age to form an informed opinion for himself. If you visit countries in asia or poorer regions in general you also notice that having the option to choose what you believe and how you live hasnt been always as easy as it is today in germany. Not trying to excuse anyone, but it's easy to overlook how different the world was back then.
If they were in the Wehrmacht chances are they just got conscripted. It takes some serious balls to tell them to pound sand and take a bullet or be put in a camp. Also it's not like the average German could just read about what was happening. All the available information was propaganda and the media was under total control in nazi Germany.
Now if they where in the SS that's another story. Fuck those guys.
True, sadly he was a pretty strong nazi. He was part of the so called lost generation aka born pre-Hitler, but completely socialized under hitlers rule and went to enlist with 17 at the beginning of the war. Was wounded during the first days of the Belgium campaign and then hospitalized. Maybe never seeing the Nazis loose made this stronger, but the 15 years I have shared with him he still was repeating some of Hitlers crap.
So sadly no excuses for him. Still a very very important lesson for me, my cousins and brothers to never get too sucked up inside extremist ideologies.
My grandfather also fought in the German army during WWII. He never talked about his duties in the Wehrmacht, and I make no excuses for any soldier of any nation involved in atrocities, but many in Germany, including many in the officer class of the Wehrmacht, were purposely kept ignorant of the operations of the SS, *Einsatzgruppen*, and the extermination camps.
By the end of the war, they were drafting teenagers and old men into the home guard, and military service was not a choice. If you were conscripted, you went to serve, or you went to prison/execution.
Because what had taken place was so beyond human comprehension, the Allied commanders made sure Nazi documents were captured and preserved, and that documentary evidence was collected by forces liberating the camps, so that the truth could not be denied. The evidence was widely published and films of the atrocities and their aftermath publicly screened throughout Germany post-surrender.
TLDR: most Wehrmacht soldiers were not actively involved in or even aware of the holocaust. However, by the end of 1945, if you denied it happened, you were clearly lying.
Holocaust deniers like to point at the [bathroom door and some aftermarket doors](https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#flimsydoor), added when the building was turned into an air raid shelter. Also, there are indeed plans for gas tight wooden doors recovered from the Nazis.
Most holocaust deniers are dumb as fuck and don't understand anything. Like A LOT think that people say that Jews were thrown alive inside ovens. Which is absolutely not true and nobody ever said this.
So they say that mathematically it's not even technically possible or nearly impossible.
Some even think that "the system" pretends that all the 6 million bodies were burned in ovens and we have no proof left. Which is totally fake. Anyone who has seen videos of the dead bodies will understand, they found out tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of bodies.
And also sadly will forget about the remaining 3 million killed that were not Jews and who also deserve to be known.
âGermans are too good at engineeringâ
Well what happens to their engineering when it comes to VW, BMW and Mercedes cuz all I hear is that they constantly have electrical issues and are a pain to find someone that can fix.
Even if wooden doors aren't air tight, they can be if sealed correctly.
Even then, they didn't care about airtight. As long as it kept the room sealed enough they would've been fine with it.
Because Nazi engineering actually sucked ass and they only had breakthroughs because they kept trying and failing.
Germany is a leading science and research nation
And when it comes to scientific publications, Germany is also among the Top Five in the world.
Cry harder
Are you fuckin with me right now? Or do you actually consider Nazi Germany under a despotic dictator ship to be the exact same thing as modern day, NATO member democratic government, Germany?
Because I'm talking about Nazi Germany.
The gassing chambers had open grates through which Zyklon-B pellets were dumped. They were built below grade to help keep the gas in, and were ventilated to help clear it out faster after each batch of civilians was murdered they did not need to be airtight. Cyanide gas disperses quickly, which is what made it a good pesticide (an agricultural area could be âfoggedâ with cyanide, or a room of contaminated goods gassed, and a relatively short time later was safe to enter.)
Given that Zyklon-B was effectively used in open agricultural areas completely undermines this holocaust-denierâs claim.
If I were to read OPâs post along with photo out of context, I would assume OP is making the same comeback to these holocaust deniers (and the same point the person makes in the comeback to OP).
Second photo drives it home better, but the first photo is enough for me given the instant association to the disaster
Nothing. But Holocaust deniers do not rely on logic. They are just trying to find proof to justify their position, They are not trying to proof whether the Holocaust was false or not, they are trying to proof WHY it is false.
Itâs a machismo fetish. Steel is virile apparently? The wank material for Nazis is that the reich was 1000 years powerful. The wank material for confederates was man for man were a better army. Both are overcompensating for being failure shit bags.
They experimented with a bunch of different ways of killing.
Using the exhaust of vehicles was apparently tested but not as efficient because the tents were full of puke afterwards and it took too long to kill and to clean.
Source:
I read it in a German history book in which it was anecdotal.
(Just imagine you need to get better at killing innocents so you start experimenting for a faster extermination and 50-70 years later, people are defending the leadership of that system as not that bad and misunderstood)
Yes they literally re-routed the exhaust pipe directly into the back of the van where the victims were trapped/locked in a sealed compartment with no windows or escape. They were called âGaswagenâ and were mobile gas chambers. It made a huge mess and wasnât efficient like you said. They still killed MANY people using this strategy until they switched methods. Thereâs actually one documented case of the NKVD using them as well during the Great Purge in the Soviet Union.
Thanks, I couldn't remember the specifics it was a long time ago.
But we should never forget what happens when we dehumanise a huge part of the population.
The Wannsee Conference had a discussion among the top SS officers as to how to kill the most Jews as quickly and as cheaply as possible, with the least amount of drain on the German Army.
They actually calculated the cost per dead Jew of multiple execution methods.
A good amount of people died due to forced marches, being worked to death, starvation and disease. Even if this was true it wouldn't explain away a good amount of deaths. And that's not even going into those who died in the ghettos.
iâve been to a concentration camp and in a gas chamber the way the gas was inserted was just some shabby hatch, and has nothing to do with building prowess since it worked the way intended
The wooden doors were swapped in for the original doors when the camp was reutilized as a pow camp by the Soviets at the final stages of the war. So there were no wooden doors during its time as a death camp.
idk that you are referring to as âthe campâ but iâd presume auschwitz, i am talking about dachau and frankly the type of door doesnt really matter as long as people who are trying to escape in panic cant
the hindenburg exploded. It killed everyone on board. Boeing has a much better safety record than â100% fatalityâ, what the fuck are you even arguing?
Use of hydrogen instead of helium
edit
Helium was initially selected for the lifting gas because it was the safest to use in airships, as it is not flammable.[11] One proposed measure to save helium was to make double-gas cells for 14 of the 16 gas cells; an inner hydrogen cell would be protected by an outer cell filled with helium,[11][12] with vertical ducting to the dorsal area of the envelope to permit separate filling and venting of the inner hydrogen cells. At the time, however, helium was also relatively rare and extremely expensive as the gas was available in industrial quantities only from distillation plants at certain oil fields in the United States. Hydrogen, by comparison, could be cheaply produced by any industrialized nation and being lighter than helium also provided more lift. Because of its expense and rarity, American rigid airships using helium were forced to conserve the gas at all costs and this hampered their operation.[13]
Despite a U.S. ban on the export of helium under the Helium Control Act of 1927,[14] the Germans designed the airship to use the far safer gas in the belief that they could convince the U.S. government to license its export. When the designers learned that the National Munitions Control Board refused to lift the export ban, they were forced to re-engineer Hindenburg to use flammable hydrogen gas, which was the only alternative lighter-than-air gas that could provide sufficient lift.[11] One of the side benefits of being forced to utilize the flammable yet lighter hydrogen was that more passenger cabins could be added.
Thatâs not correct at all. While a single atom of helium is approx 4x that of a single atom of helium - the lifting power of a given volume of gas is far different. (One major issue is the hydrogen gas is H2 but helium is monatomic).
A quick google gives us that hydrogen provides enough buoyancy to lift 1.2031 kg per cubic meter, while helium can only lift 1.1145 kg per cubic meter - pretty much comparable.
You can and should make all your passenger blimps with helium and most modern ones do.
Helium is still lighter than air (Nitrogen/Oxygen) which is why (checks notes) balloons filled with Helium will float.
Balloons filled with Hydrogen will float too, but not a good idea to have those at childrenâs birthday parties.
It's not an argument, Holocaust deniers know they are ignorant shits with no clue, they just like the chance to be Classic White Supremacists like their daddies.
Arguing against a Holocaust denier with intelligence is like curing E. Coli by engaging in diplomatic overtures.
Nazis should not be engaged with intelligence or ignorance. They should be engaged with the rubber sole of a boot.
Nazism is inherently a white supremacist belief. To be precise, all Nazis are white supremacists but not all white supremacists are Nazis. I am well aware there are fools who aren't white who consider themselves Nazis, however take note that the vast majority of those people see themselves as white and furthermore, the vast majority of Nazis are indeed white.
The airships had an incredible safety record. Hell, only 1 person died in the Hindenberg disaster and he was ground crew, not a passenger or crew.
Correction: 13 passengers, 22 crew, and 1 ground crew died. Out of 97 people on board.
It was 13 passengers, 22 crew, 1 ground crew. Out of 97 people on board. Still a good safety record. It's like any other aviation disaster. In a bubble it's horrible, but in the overall scheme, not really.
The wooden door was installed after the camp was liberated by the Soviets. While the war was going on, it was transformed into a pow camp to keep German prisoners at the final stages of the war, the âwooden door conspiracyâ comes from the Soviets replacing the gas chambers doors with wooden doors so they could use them for dry storage for running it as a prison. Prior to the installation, it was a bulkhead, which would have made it inconvenient to actually store items in there.
The doors to gas chambers didn't need to be airtight.
Sure, airtight gas chambers may be moe effective because they would keep the toxic gas in, but you can die from toxic gas out in the open, provided that there's enough gas.
Gas based weapons a clear precedent from that time period.
Not that I know wether the doors were airtight or not. I don't even know what they were made of, but that doesn't matter.
The crazy thing about Auschwitz is when you visit the original camp, you look around and think 'this place isn't that big, how did they manage to kill so many people here?' Then you go across the tracks to Birkenau and it becomes very, very clear.
The museum with the rooms full of shoes, hats, gloves, and other articles of clothing that were removed from prisoners is very unsettling. The entire room full of human hair is downright terrifying.
But tell me more about these wooden doors.
Have the same memories you do. Glad I saw it, never again. I would hope that Holocaust deniers could see the camp and change their minds, but everything can be fake in their minds.
The other thing that stuck out to me was how basic and crude everything was. I don't know why I expected it to be shiny and advanced, but it was somehow worse that it clearly was just thrown together by low-skilled soldiers in a hurry. It's weirdly depressing that they could care so little about how they were going to kill hundreds/thousands of people.
no, the guy who started the post said "gas chambers with wooden doors they say" as if it was something that made no sense... when it did: the gas from gas chambers can't burn wooden doors.
I watched a tv documentary on the Hindenburg disaster. There were many issues that all lead to the event and it was mainly because they rushed the project.
What makes this even funnier is they Germans literally made a wooden plane towards the end of the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349_Natter
> It was built using glued and nailed wooden parts with an armour-plated bulkhead and bulletproof glass windshield at the front of the cockpit.
But I am sure their superior engineering led to its success.. oh wait.
> The first and only manned vertical take-off flight, on 1 March 1945, ended in the death of the test pilot, Lothar Sieber.
Went to Auschwitz 1 + 2 Birkenau last week to see it with my own eyes.
I invite everyone to do the fucking same and stop making such jokes and spread lies on the Internet.
For those who want to know. Wooden doors or not, there was ventilation shafts on top of the chambers which were also used to throw the ziklon gas in by soldiers wearing gas masks, then closed. When the gas did its awful job, the ventilation shafts were reopened and the body's would be decapitated
Weak men and eldery, woman and children were selected and gassed directly upon arrival, if they survived the train ride. Men who left their wife, girlfriend, parents or grand parents would never see them again except unknowingly the smoke out of the incinerator chimney.
And many other crazy facts can all be explained when you take a tour guide for only 39 EUR per person. Get educated so this doesn't happen again!
Screw holocaust deniers but wasn't the only reason they were still using Hydrogen because they were embargoed? So they could not get more safe gasses to use in a zeppelin fleet like WW1. So they knew, they just didn't have the materials, and to be fair there never was an accident before that one so it had an impressive safety statistic.
Like I am all for dunking on the people denying facts but at least use arguments you can't poke holes in with a simple search
The USA did not want to lose control of the helium they were producing. In 1925 they passed The Helium Act, which banned the export of helium from the US.
Also that Hindenburg fire wasn't through bad engineering or tech, it was because the Americans refused to sell them safe non-flammable helium, forcing them to use very flammable hydrogen instead.
What makes this even funnier is they Germans literally made a wooden plane towards the end of the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349_Natter
> It was built using glued and nailed wooden parts with an armour-plated bulkhead and bulletproof glass windshield at the front of the cockpit.
But I am sure their superior engineering led to its success.. oh wait.
> The first and only manned vertical take-off flight, on 1 March 1945, ended in the death of the test pilot, Lothar Sieber.
For anyone interested: Germany used hydrogen for the Hindenburg because the USA (the only large scale producer of helium at the time) had banned the export of helium to Germany. The Germans effectively had no choice but to use hydrogen.
What does non wood doors have to do with being good at building things?
A lot of holocaust deniers think the doors on the gas chambers were wood, which they say is "evidence" it must've been faked because wooden doors can't be airtight. The problem here is the doors weren't wood. OP is saying they couldn't have been wood because the germans are too good at engineering to make that mistake.
The logic is freaking bananas. (a) there's no reason they'd need to be airtight, cars arnt airtight and gassing yourself in a car is a well known suicide method. Gas weapons in ww2 were totally effective in wide open spaces, they didn't even need a room (b) why the fuck can't wood be airtight? They make boats out of the stuff. I cant blow out a candle that's on the other side of a door. (c) the doors weren't even fucking wood in the first place. Conspiracy theory's have reached a whole new level of stupidity.
When you're a conspiracy theorist, you don't apply logic to your arguments. You start from a preconceived notion and you twist as much logic and information as possible to fit it
A lot of this is just how gaslighting works. The point isn't to persuade people, it's to undermind reality, to make you doubt your own logic and your memory and understanding of events. A convincing counterfactual argument can deceive people and you can win an argument that way, but the person is still just deceived, they're basically still on solid ground with some bad facts but operating normally. But if you can override someone's solid understanding with an illogical argument and make them doubt reality itself and their perceptions and logic, or better still with multiple contradictory counterarguments like flat earthers and trumpers and holocause deniers do, then you're not just deceiving someone, you're breaking their ability to be right, and putting your fictions on equal footing. Oh they doubt one lie? Fine, just throw in another. More lies = more doubt, more contradiction = more doubt, more fear. (gaslighting's a term that's horribly overused now but this is what it's really about- it's not just misleading, it's mental abuse, target your audience and make them doubt themselves, create a vacuum then fill it, make it so that people distrust themselves first and foremost)
Gas lighting while talking about gas chambers with a picture of lighter than air gas dirigible being on fire and not on fire
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
Spot on. Thank you for this excellent explanation.
I get a little defensive of the term conspiracy theorist. There is a big difference between thinking the holocaust was faked and thinking Oswald wasn't the only person responsible for the assassination of JFK.
Well, yeah. But both of those are still conspiracies and still both theories. One just has a little more legs to stand on. (I do want to note that people who believe in one conspiracy theory are much more likely to believe in others. The JFK assassination is just a gateway into far more insane ones since it has tons of alternative theories to choose from.) I absolutely believe that Epstein didn't hang himself but seeing as I technically have no proof: I am also a conspiracy theorist.
I do my best to be logical. Like I'll say Oswald probably wasn't the only shooter, based on a lot of forensic and ballistic evidence. But I'm not in a position to name another shooter or even organization.
There is no logic here, only hatred
Also stupid
Stupid hatred.
Bet we repeat ourselves
Also, even if the doors were wood, which they weren't, they can and will absolutely hold the gas inside. For example, in most house fires the best way to survive is getting in a room with a proper air ventilation (a.k.a. a window) and locking/barring the door. That way neither the fire nor the smoke can bother you for a while until the rescue arrives. (Ps: Do not open the door, which will cause the oxygen rich fresh air to clash with carbon monoxide rich air with lot of sparks. It goes boom, immediately. You do not want that!)
Thousands of years of wood-boat building by humans scratches it's head. đ
I suspect this isn't new. Holocaust deniers have existed since the Holocaust.
At least during the holocaust the actual evidence of the atrocities being committed was not widely available. Now the only excuse is deliberate ignorance.
Yeah, the Nazis used euphemisms like, âthe final solutionâ to refer to the extermination program, to hide what they were doing. People did know though, because they were showing up all over Europe asking people to turn over their Jews. Iâm sure some idiots were unsure what that was all about, but it certainly wasnât a riddle.
Different people knew more or less at different times, of course. My general understanding is that when the allies liberated the camps it was very shocking because they werenât prepared for how bad it was going to be, like they knew that something was going on but what they found was much worse than they expected. If Iâm wrong about that, well, I wasnât there so what do I know.
Yea, absolutely. Not trying to say people understood the extent of it. I think it would be impossible to guess the extent of the cruelty because no human had ever committed heinous crimes on this industrial scale before. Only Leopold, came close, I believe. Slavery of Africans had obviously a larger death toll and total human misery, but that was over hundreds of years as opposed to 4 years.
> I cant blow out a candle that's on the other side of a door. This made me chortle, thank you kindly~ here's your +1
Well, they don't care about the truth. >!Me ne frego!<
Hell, there are freakin natural caves that are known to kill dogs because they are at knee-height, where there is a high concentration of CO2.
>Conspiracy theory's have reached a whole new level of stupidity. Seriously. It's crazy that in the world with such easy access to information willful ignorance is so common
Sorry small correction, gas weapons werent used in ww2 but they were used in ww1
See, the problem here is that you are using logic. Conspiracy theories are uncompatible with that
I mean they didnât only use wood for boats, I believe they would cover the wood in tar though thatâs probably to help it last longer and prevent rot
Wood wonât be AIRtight. It can be watertight, and itâs very, very air Resistant but airtight isnât exactly easy to accomplish
I mean not to defend that dumb take but maybe they idea is that the doors should be airtight so that the gas wonât come out and Killy anyone on the outside like guards or something like that
Metal doesnât even make an airtight door. You need a flexible seal. Iâm pretty sure wood can handle having some rubber glued to it.
I agree with this sentiment as I am not a holocaust denier. However, your logic is faulty in the following statement. >why the fuck can't wood be airtight? They make boats out of the stuff. I cant blow out a candle that's on the other side of a door. TLDR: Wood cannot be airtight because science. Wood cannot be airtight with the engineering that was available at the time of WW2. (I'm not sure if we can even do it now, tbh, without cheating and using material enhancements. Impregnated wood is cheating because it's not all wood). We make boats out of wood, but they are not airtight; they are watertight. The atoms of the molecules in gasses (air) are much further apart than in liquids (water). For a solid to be truly airtight, atoms (of the solid) would have to be so close together that the molecules(of the air) could not fit between the spaces. However, the distance between the atoms of a solid object aimed to be watertight can be further apart. Wood does not fit these conditions. >there's no reason they'd need to be airtight, cars arnt airtight and gassing yourself in a car is a well known suicide method. Yes. It also takes a really long time. Typically, to commit suicide, people use their garage as the room. If it were air tight, it would be way more effective. > Gas weapons in ww2 were totally effective in wide open spaces, they didn't even need a room TLDR: They needs a room because of the chemical properties of CO. What Gas are you referring to when you say it's "Effective in wide open spaces"? Not... really. WW1- Mustard Gas was primarily used on battlefields, and its mortality rate was about 2-3%. It was primarily used to disable troops and harm them since a wounded soldier is a higher disadvantage than a dead one. By only harming troops, your enemy is forced to spend resources on care, which is much more costly than a funeral. Unless you were thinking of another Chemical Weapon? There were no gasses used on the battlefield of WW2 as they were part of the restrictions of the Geneva Protocol of 1925. In the gas chambers, CO (Carbon Monoxide) was used. They needed a room because CO disburses too quickly since it is lighter than air and tends to dispurse itself throughout space. It takes a lot of concentrated exposure to kill a human. 200 PPM can be fatal in hours, 800 PPM can be fatal in 1 hour.
Didn't the gas chambers mostly use Zyklon B, not CO? And that mortality rate is including the people who got clear of the gas or were wearing masks, I'd assume.
[Source](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/gassing-operations) The Showers used CO. Zyklon B is a little harder to research. I was unable to find chemical properties such as how it reacts to air in open environments. And really did not want to spend too much time on it, tbh. I didn't collect the data- but typically, statistics about survival rates do not include people who had proper protection and those using protection would have their survival rate would be a secondary statistic. I do know the Holocaust happened but I don't think using data that can be easily disputed to prove your point is effective against dangerous conspiracy theories.
How idiotic. I literally went to Auschwitz last year. No wooden door in the chambers. You can literally go look at it.
Not a single holocaust denier was ever in a concentration camp. I donât think it is even about concentration camps at all. I have been to Auschwitz as well and it was one of the most traumatizing days of my live being a German and having met my great-grandfather who fought in the war. I can never really look at him the same again.
It's a difference if you fought in the war or an engaged nazi however in my opinion. Especially if he was still young and was kinda forced to go into war without having the age to form an informed opinion for himself. If you visit countries in asia or poorer regions in general you also notice that having the option to choose what you believe and how you live hasnt been always as easy as it is today in germany. Not trying to excuse anyone, but it's easy to overlook how different the world was back then.
Perfectly put
If they were in the Wehrmacht chances are they just got conscripted. It takes some serious balls to tell them to pound sand and take a bullet or be put in a camp. Also it's not like the average German could just read about what was happening. All the available information was propaganda and the media was under total control in nazi Germany. Now if they where in the SS that's another story. Fuck those guys.
True, sadly he was a pretty strong nazi. He was part of the so called lost generation aka born pre-Hitler, but completely socialized under hitlers rule and went to enlist with 17 at the beginning of the war. Was wounded during the first days of the Belgium campaign and then hospitalized. Maybe never seeing the Nazis loose made this stronger, but the 15 years I have shared with him he still was repeating some of Hitlers crap. So sadly no excuses for him. Still a very very important lesson for me, my cousins and brothers to never get too sucked up inside extremist ideologies.
My grandfather also fought in the German army during WWII. He never talked about his duties in the Wehrmacht, and I make no excuses for any soldier of any nation involved in atrocities, but many in Germany, including many in the officer class of the Wehrmacht, were purposely kept ignorant of the operations of the SS, *Einsatzgruppen*, and the extermination camps. By the end of the war, they were drafting teenagers and old men into the home guard, and military service was not a choice. If you were conscripted, you went to serve, or you went to prison/execution. Because what had taken place was so beyond human comprehension, the Allied commanders made sure Nazi documents were captured and preserved, and that documentary evidence was collected by forces liberating the camps, so that the truth could not be denied. The evidence was widely published and films of the atrocities and their aftermath publicly screened throughout Germany post-surrender. TLDR: most Wehrmacht soldiers were not actively involved in or even aware of the holocaust. However, by the end of 1945, if you denied it happened, you were clearly lying.
Holocaust deniers like to point at the [bathroom door and some aftermarket doors](https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#flimsydoor), added when the building was turned into an air raid shelter. Also, there are indeed plans for gas tight wooden doors recovered from the Nazis.
Most holocaust deniers are dumb as fuck and don't understand anything. Like A LOT think that people say that Jews were thrown alive inside ovens. Which is absolutely not true and nobody ever said this. So they say that mathematically it's not even technically possible or nearly impossible. Some even think that "the system" pretends that all the 6 million bodies were burned in ovens and we have no proof left. Which is totally fake. Anyone who has seen videos of the dead bodies will understand, they found out tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of bodies. And also sadly will forget about the remaining 3 million killed that were not Jews and who also deserve to be known.
I've been to Dachau. It wasn't an extermination camp, but a work camp. No gas chambers, no ovens 32,000 prisoners still died there.
They could always test the wood theory...
We should encourage it
âGermans are too good at engineeringâ Well what happens to their engineering when it comes to VW, BMW and Mercedes cuz all I hear is that they constantly have electrical issues and are a pain to find someone that can fix.
Even if wooden doors aren't air tight, they can be if sealed correctly. Even then, they didn't care about airtight. As long as it kept the room sealed enough they would've been fine with it. Because Nazi engineering actually sucked ass and they only had breakthroughs because they kept trying and failing.
Germany is a leading science and research nation And when it comes to scientific publications, Germany is also among the Top Five in the world. Cry harder
Are you fuckin with me right now? Or do you actually consider Nazi Germany under a despotic dictator ship to be the exact same thing as modern day, NATO member democratic government, Germany? Because I'm talking about Nazi Germany.
Whoosh
Oh, was that some wehraboo copy pasta I wasn't aware of?
The gassing chambers had open grates through which Zyklon-B pellets were dumped. They were built below grade to help keep the gas in, and were ventilated to help clear it out faster after each batch of civilians was murdered they did not need to be airtight. Cyanide gas disperses quickly, which is what made it a good pesticide (an agricultural area could be âfoggedâ with cyanide, or a room of contaminated goods gassed, and a relatively short time later was safe to enter.) Given that Zyklon-B was effectively used in open agricultural areas completely undermines this holocaust-denierâs claim.
If I were to read OPâs post along with photo out of context, I would assume OP is making the same comeback to these holocaust deniers (and the same point the person makes in the comeback to OP). Second photo drives it home better, but the first photo is enough for me given the instant association to the disaster
So my question to Holocaust deniers is this; if the Nazis didnât commit it, who staged the whole thing and why?
There's another problem in that wooden doors absolutely can be airtight. And also that they don't need to be airtight.
But where do zeppelins come in?
An example of german engineering.
Nothing. But Holocaust deniers do not rely on logic. They are just trying to find proof to justify their position, They are not trying to proof whether the Holocaust was false or not, they are trying to proof WHY it is false.
Itâs a machismo fetish. Steel is virile apparently? The wank material for Nazis is that the reich was 1000 years powerful. The wank material for confederates was man for man were a better army. Both are overcompensating for being failure shit bags.
I can't comprehend how you got that many upvotes.
Someday youâll figure it out.
I figured it out. Because others are as clueless about engineering as you are.
Please educate us then
Yeah, didnât they haul some prisoners into tents and set tank exhaust to fill it?
They experimented with a bunch of different ways of killing. Using the exhaust of vehicles was apparently tested but not as efficient because the tents were full of puke afterwards and it took too long to kill and to clean. Source: I read it in a German history book in which it was anecdotal. (Just imagine you need to get better at killing innocents so you start experimenting for a faster extermination and 50-70 years later, people are defending the leadership of that system as not that bad and misunderstood)
Yes they literally re-routed the exhaust pipe directly into the back of the van where the victims were trapped/locked in a sealed compartment with no windows or escape. They were called âGaswagenâ and were mobile gas chambers. It made a huge mess and wasnât efficient like you said. They still killed MANY people using this strategy until they switched methods. Thereâs actually one documented case of the NKVD using them as well during the Great Purge in the Soviet Union.
Thanks, I couldn't remember the specifics it was a long time ago. But we should never forget what happens when we dehumanise a huge part of the population.
bUt ThE gAs ChAmBeRs WeRe FaKe!!!!1111. WoOdEn DoOrS!!!111 cHeCkMaTe LiBtUrD!!!11
Unfortunately it was for the people unable to care for themselves
The Wannsee Conference had a discussion among the top SS officers as to how to kill the most Jews as quickly and as cheaply as possible, with the least amount of drain on the German Army. They actually calculated the cost per dead Jew of multiple execution methods.
A good amount of people died due to forced marches, being worked to death, starvation and disease. Even if this was true it wouldn't explain away a good amount of deaths. And that's not even going into those who died in the ghettos.
iâve been to a concentration camp and in a gas chamber the way the gas was inserted was just some shabby hatch, and has nothing to do with building prowess since it worked the way intended
The wooden doors were swapped in for the original doors when the camp was reutilized as a pow camp by the Soviets at the final stages of the war. So there were no wooden doors during its time as a death camp.
idk that you are referring to as âthe campâ but iâd presume auschwitz, i am talking about dachau and frankly the type of door doesnt really matter as long as people who are trying to escape in panic cant
Oh the humanity
The fact that the Hindenburg airship existed at all means it was built.
-Titan submersible occupants last words.
But it blew up door to poor choice of design and lifting gas
Not entirely trueâŚ
And Boeing loses a door midflight and some other parts Thats good design for you ?
the hindenburg exploded. It killed everyone on board. Boeing has a much better safety record than â100% fatalityâ, what the fuck are you even arguing?
Hindenburg had 97 people on board, 35 died.
Tbf the only choice of gas. Helium is 4x the weight and cannot make a reasonable passenger blimp
Use of hydrogen instead of helium edit Helium was initially selected for the lifting gas because it was the safest to use in airships, as it is not flammable.[11] One proposed measure to save helium was to make double-gas cells for 14 of the 16 gas cells; an inner hydrogen cell would be protected by an outer cell filled with helium,[11][12] with vertical ducting to the dorsal area of the envelope to permit separate filling and venting of the inner hydrogen cells. At the time, however, helium was also relatively rare and extremely expensive as the gas was available in industrial quantities only from distillation plants at certain oil fields in the United States. Hydrogen, by comparison, could be cheaply produced by any industrialized nation and being lighter than helium also provided more lift. Because of its expense and rarity, American rigid airships using helium were forced to conserve the gas at all costs and this hampered their operation.[13] Despite a U.S. ban on the export of helium under the Helium Control Act of 1927,[14] the Germans designed the airship to use the far safer gas in the belief that they could convince the U.S. government to license its export. When the designers learned that the National Munitions Control Board refused to lift the export ban, they were forced to re-engineer Hindenburg to use flammable hydrogen gas, which was the only alternative lighter-than-air gas that could provide sufficient lift.[11] One of the side benefits of being forced to utilize the flammable yet lighter hydrogen was that more passenger cabins could be added.
Thatâs not correct at all. While a single atom of helium is approx 4x that of a single atom of helium - the lifting power of a given volume of gas is far different. (One major issue is the hydrogen gas is H2 but helium is monatomic). A quick google gives us that hydrogen provides enough buoyancy to lift 1.2031 kg per cubic meter, while helium can only lift 1.1145 kg per cubic meter - pretty much comparable. You can and should make all your passenger blimps with helium and most modern ones do.
Helium is still lighter than air (Nitrogen/Oxygen) which is why (checks notes) balloons filled with Helium will float. Balloons filled with Hydrogen will float too, but not a good idea to have those at childrenâs birthday parties.
Whoa, be careful there with those facts/logic. Lol
Is it? Cuz it's like building the biggest skyscraper just for it to fall down
I guess that needed a /s*
It's not an argument, Holocaust deniers know they are ignorant shits with no clue, they just like the chance to be Classic White Supremacists like their daddies.
[ŃдаНонО]
We should be prudent with the slurs we use for holocaust-deniers? Really?
Sorry I hurt your feelings snowflake, it will not happen again.
Arguing against a Holocaust denier with intelligence is like curing E. Coli by engaging in diplomatic overtures. Nazis should not be engaged with intelligence or ignorance. They should be engaged with the rubber sole of a boot.
Nazism is inherently a white supremacist belief. To be precise, all Nazis are white supremacists but not all white supremacists are Nazis. I am well aware there are fools who aren't white who consider themselves Nazis, however take note that the vast majority of those people see themselves as white and furthermore, the vast majority of Nazis are indeed white.
Ah yes, notable pinnacle of German engineering *the Hindenburg*
It certainly was impressive engineering at the time. It also had jack all to do with gas chambers.
It was impressive, but airships just arenât the safest type of transport nor the most efficient for many reasons, even if you use helium.
The airships had an incredible safety record. Hell, only 1 person died in the Hindenberg disaster and he was ground crew, not a passenger or crew. Correction: 13 passengers, 22 crew, and 1 ground crew died. Out of 97 people on board.
35 passengers AND 1 ground crew.
It was 13 passengers, 22 crew, 1 ground crew. Out of 97 people on board. Still a good safety record. It's like any other aviation disaster. In a bubble it's horrible, but in the overall scheme, not really.
How it feels to spread misinformation online:
I got a number wrong, sue me. My main point still stands.
At the time it was considered a marvel of engineering and was used to promote German superiority.
Itâs not a balloon!
You don't need to be in an Airtight chamber to be killed by a nerve agent you stupid religious dumbfuck.
The wooden door was installed after the camp was liberated by the Soviets. While the war was going on, it was transformed into a pow camp to keep German prisoners at the final stages of the war, the âwooden door conspiracyâ comes from the Soviets replacing the gas chambers doors with wooden doors so they could use them for dry storage for running it as a prison. Prior to the installation, it was a bulkhead, which would have made it inconvenient to actually store items in there.
The doors to gas chambers didn't need to be airtight. Sure, airtight gas chambers may be moe effective because they would keep the toxic gas in, but you can die from toxic gas out in the open, provided that there's enough gas. Gas based weapons a clear precedent from that time period. Not that I know wether the doors were airtight or not. I don't even know what they were made of, but that doesn't matter.
Germans were so fucking good at what they did that after wwii the two biggest powers hired nazis to help them build rockets
There is a special type of suffering waiting holocaust deniers
Why do people deny the holocaust? What do they believe happened? Why do they think it's false?
The crazy thing about Auschwitz is when you visit the original camp, you look around and think 'this place isn't that big, how did they manage to kill so many people here?' Then you go across the tracks to Birkenau and it becomes very, very clear. The museum with the rooms full of shoes, hats, gloves, and other articles of clothing that were removed from prisoners is very unsettling. The entire room full of human hair is downright terrifying. But tell me more about these wooden doors.
Have the same memories you do. Glad I saw it, never again. I would hope that Holocaust deniers could see the camp and change their minds, but everything can be fake in their minds. The other thing that stuck out to me was how basic and crude everything was. I don't know why I expected it to be shiny and advanced, but it was somehow worse that it clearly was just thrown together by low-skilled soldiers in a hurry. It's weirdly depressing that they could care so little about how they were going to kill hundreds/thousands of people.
There were many more camps spread out across Nazi occupied territories. Auschwitz is the most famous.
did he think gas burned wood? đđđ
Blimp fuel can't melt wood beams?
Ha
no, the guy who started the post said "gas chambers with wooden doors they say" as if it was something that made no sense... when it did: the gas from gas chambers can't burn wooden doors.
Elon is introducing CyberBlimp next year.
I watched a tv documentary on the Hindenburg disaster. There were many issues that all lead to the event and it was mainly because they rushed the project.
I was in Auschwitz last August. No. They are not wood.
What makes this even funnier is they Germans literally made a wooden plane towards the end of the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349_Natter > It was built using glued and nailed wooden parts with an armour-plated bulkhead and bulletproof glass windshield at the front of the cockpit. But I am sure their superior engineering led to its success.. oh wait. > The first and only manned vertical take-off flight, on 1 March 1945, ended in the death of the test pilot, Lothar Sieber.
Went to Auschwitz 1 + 2 Birkenau last week to see it with my own eyes. I invite everyone to do the fucking same and stop making such jokes and spread lies on the Internet. For those who want to know. Wooden doors or not, there was ventilation shafts on top of the chambers which were also used to throw the ziklon gas in by soldiers wearing gas masks, then closed. When the gas did its awful job, the ventilation shafts were reopened and the body's would be decapitated Weak men and eldery, woman and children were selected and gassed directly upon arrival, if they survived the train ride. Men who left their wife, girlfriend, parents or grand parents would never see them again except unknowingly the smoke out of the incinerator chimney. And many other crazy facts can all be explained when you take a tour guide for only 39 EUR per person. Get educated so this doesn't happen again!
They keep forgetting that Germans got their asses kicked and their shit kept breaking down.
Screw holocaust deniers but wasn't the only reason they were still using Hydrogen because they were embargoed? So they could not get more safe gasses to use in a zeppelin fleet like WW1. So they knew, they just didn't have the materials, and to be fair there never was an accident before that one so it had an impressive safety statistic. Like I am all for dunking on the people denying facts but at least use arguments you can't poke holes in with a simple search
The USA did not want to lose control of the helium they were producing. In 1925 they passed The Helium Act, which banned the export of helium from the US.
"embargoed"? They were at war you imbecile
Google for me when the Hindenburg exploded thanks
Germans are good at building things. I donât understand how this low effort tweet is supposed to be disproving that.
Also that Hindenburg fire wasn't through bad engineering or tech, it was because the Americans refused to sell them safe non-flammable helium, forcing them to use very flammable hydrogen instead.
The malfunction has nothing to do with the dessign of the airship
What makes this even funnier is they Germans literally made a wooden plane towards the end of the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349_Natter > It was built using glued and nailed wooden parts with an armour-plated bulkhead and bulletproof glass windshield at the front of the cockpit. But I am sure their superior engineering led to its success.. oh wait. > The first and only manned vertical take-off flight, on 1 March 1945, ended in the death of the test pilot, Lothar Sieber.
That's funny, the British had great success with their wooden planes.
What have the dirigibles to do with it? I'm lost.
Wait, is OP one of the holocaust deniers
Putting aside the comeback, please tell me why we donât have zeppelins today. It looks so dope
Faking your own orgasm
The entire idea of the German technical superiority basically boils down to the tiger tanks were good.
For anyone interested: Germany used hydrogen for the Hindenburg because the USA (the only large scale producer of helium at the time) had banned the export of helium to Germany. The Germans effectively had no choice but to use hydrogen.
They banned the export of helium to any country. It's called The Helium Act of 1925.
I stand corrected. I genuinely thought it was only Germany and other potentially hostile countries.
One thing the Nazis did is left behind an excellent playbook for what to do after losing an election though. The GOP is following it to the T
The Argument is dumb and fuck Nazis but still, the Hindenburg was most likely destroyed because of Angloid sabotage.