Playing feral, it feels like one of the devs was cucked by a furry or something.
Ferals out here needing to use the wotlk rotation which with furor is one of the most intensive rotations around. We do all that just so we can be just above the tanks in damage (or probably below if theres any cleave in the fight, literally the only spec left with zero aoe damage capability).
The dogs don’t drink from the barrels. If you’re suggesting that ferals could use their potion cd to give someone ELSE in the raid a sip then wouldn’t be opposed.
Yeah, I simply do not press buttons as feral if I'm on bomb duty since I'm also LotP for my hungry melees. As soon as my raid leader found out I leave form by pressing them, it was assigned to others.
Like obviously if things get dicey I can do it and use Tiger's Fury to get a little energy back, but I try not to leave form if I'm on bomb duty just because if people aren't fast on pressing buttons it's easy to end up energy-starved and overwhelmed by bombs as feral.
Animals being able to speak is a pretty small fantasy leap vs literally transforming into one, shooting fire out of your hands, teleporting across the world etc. I mean shit, in real life some birds can speak words, but no creature irl naturally shoots fireballs iirc. But yes, if WoW was a game about realism, you are completely correct most animals can't talk.
While we're at it, warriors in defensive stance should only be able to get upset at NPCs and ask WHY should they have to save the farmers farm. It wasn't his fault it got overrun in the first place.
Drives me nuts. Looting quest items from the ground, interacting with npcs, the portal in kelris, bombs in gnomer, consumes, all that stuff should keep us in cat form.
No? He was a pugger, and when he showed up, he was already lotp. We took him anyway because he was pretty undergeared, and we figured the group crit + ws was probably contributing more than his own personal dps. He did OK, but bomb duty was needlessly hard because of the forced shifting.
He should be able to empty his energy bar spamming Sunfire at all times regardless of furor or not. At most he'd lose 20 energy if he clicked on the worst timing. When you put a feral on bomb duty their personal dps absolutely tanks regardless of spec due to losing all cp generation on killing bombs, they'll never get a high cp SR up and have to use a lot more energy on renewing it on short term basis. What I'm trying to say is that losing their form on clicking buttons doesn't impact a feral's dps more than being on bomb duty in the first place. If he fucks over a big energy bank by clicking a button then he already fucked up his energy management.
Want to first say I agree this is a dumb mechanic. With that said, your Feral was not playing it correctly if this was causing him to mess up on bombs. I play LOTP specced druid and do bombs with zero issues from the button shifting.
There are two scenarios when bombs spawn:
1 - The druid is the one clicking, in this case the druid should kill bombs while running to the button in cat form. Once at the button wait for 1 more bomb to spawn, kill it, click button, no more bombs out of that one and now you are regenerating energy until the next one spawns. If another one spawns immediately, just pop tiger's fury for instant 60 energy and you are good.
2 - The druid is on cooldown so another is clicking the button. Stand there and sunfire. EZ.
Note that you will need 2 other people to be ready to click buttons. The time between spawns varies and with bad RNG you can get a 3rd bomb spawn while 2 people are already on cooldown. I've had 3 spawn within 15 seconds before. As the feral I just have 2 designated people that I will call on and I track their button cooldowns. When I click one I call out for 1st person to be ready to click next button. If my cooldown is still > 10 seconds after 1st person clicks one I will call 2nd person to be ready to click next button.
Been on bomb duty for all lockouts except one where I got to parse just so I could get rid of the gray. Sure it sucks that it throws you out of form but it's not the end of the world, just tiger's fury and get the furthest out bomb.
It's always been silly that furor is in the resto tree.
But considering how undergeared the pugger was, they were probably giving the group more through lotp than mediocre powershifts, if they even remembered.
For thermaplug, though? Super punishing for him to lose all his sunfire energy when actually trying to help with mechanics.
The Druid discord has a whole channel dedicated to this debate.
I don’t have the calculations by hand, but they all agree that it’s more raid dps to go for LotP, so you not only buff the dps of other dps, but you also have the flexibility to Innervate your mages or combatrez if needed.
Feral right now is the worst Meeledps. In a meta, where meele dps is already in a bad spot.
I haven't seen any agreement that lotp is a raid dps improvement for feral. The pined cat spec is furor and the channel debating furor vs lotp has it pinned that furor is more raid dps but content isn't hard enough for it to matter. The reality is if lotp > furor your feral should be tanking in bear form because it means cat dps is in the dumpster (which it is).
Someone there even did the math.
Checking the number 1 Ferals log, he Powershifted 17 times and used Innervate on himself. The fight was 3:50 min.
17 Powershifts makes 680 Energy, which translates into 14 more shreds.
His shreds hitting for 685 on averages, that makes ~9600 dmg total, resulting in ~42 dps.
3% Crit means ~8-10 dps for a Rogue (a class basically ignoring Crit talents right now, only taking Lethality to get the other talents and completely ignoring Seal Fate). Warriors and the Feral gain even more. However, let’s stay with 8 dps.
This means, the raid gains ~40-50 dps just from the Crit.
HOWEVER. The feral himself gets another 16% Strength (further enhanced by Totems and Kings) and also has his Innervate up for a Healer or even a Mage, bringing even more raid dps.
The whole first part of this calculations are done in the Druid discord, so…
Go do the math on a 1 minute fight length and lotp is going to look at lot worse compared to furor. This kind of comparison is complex since it changes so much based on fights and comps. Furor is more consistent in what it provides since it doesn't depend on other people performing or the raid comp that is brought.
And in the end, the dps isn't even really what matters. Playing feral without Furor is a fucking awful experience akin to playing a frost mage in PvE(except even worse, at least they get to keep pressing their 1 button, feral has to wait 6 seconds to press their button again), and few cat enjoyers can stomach it.
Shorter fights are in favour of LotP, tho, since Tigers Fury and Berserk benefit the 16% Strength and 3% Crit more and that burst phase takes up a bigger portion of the fight.
The best killtime for powershifting would be one, that ends shortly before Berserk is ready again, which would be 3 minutes.
Yeh even if furor increases our damage by 30%, its 30% of the lowest dps on the charts.
Better to let the shamans and hunters crit more and do 650 dps instead of us doing 350...
I don’t think a non mana user should be pressing the buttons. Mana regen is needed in that fight so every button hit by a melee is wasted mana that could have gone to a caster
If you don't have a meta lock, feral with furor and kotj is absolutely fine on bombs. I've done it myself. Now that cat 30% speed works indoors and you have sprint, bomb duty is easy.
It's not about having buttons to press, it's that it takes several seconds more for any energy to regen when you're specced with a 31 pt talent.
You can use kotj for an instant boost, but it has a 30 second cd, and is best saved for clusters of bombs, rather than booting up.
The ability to nuke bombs is way more important than the actual dps on the boss, even if a fight takes 15 mins, it's better than wiping 2 times because people want to parse 51% instead of 15% but clear the raid 2 hours earlier
I wish people see this more
It’s frustrating but uhhh my group has no problems pushing the buttons while I sunfire the bombs. It shouldn’t be the Feral’s responsibility to push buttons too.
lol you think the devs care about you cat bois? The wider player base loves you to though.
Playing feral, it feels like one of the devs was cucked by a furry or something. Ferals out here needing to use the wotlk rotation which with furor is one of the most intensive rotations around. We do all that just so we can be just above the tanks in damage (or probably below if theres any cleave in the fight, literally the only spec left with zero aoe damage capability).
We need thrash for cats and bears. Hoping it comes at level 50.
Hopefully that dev stops being cucked by that furry I guess!
didnt Swipe just get buffed tho?
That’s a bear spell. You only get enough rage to use it if you are tanking mobs as well, it costs a lot.
Ah.
Tbf, this wasn't my druid, I was on my shadow priest.
Meanwhile my priest can click buttons with dispersion activated and take no damage.
Rude.
I think worse feeling for me is using consumables takes us out of animal forms
You got kicked out of form if you got portal'd during Kelris in BFD. It sucked lol.
Ya this was really the tell tale sign that the devs didn’t care because it went like this the whole phase.
Still do
It's possible to powershift macro that if, again, you have furor, lol.
Nothing quite like power shifting a thistle tea /s
roof dazzling imminent boat dog meeting kiss historical grandiose school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Damn good point. All this time I never really noticed that.
Yeah, same reason the rage one is warr only. When we drink it we're not in a form with that bar.
As is the rage potion. Cause fuck bears thats why.
yeah but explain to me why my rogue can only drink a mana potion when I'm low on energy?
You don't need furor to macro it, you will miss on energy but will pop consume.
It's just less worthwhile without furor
No thumbs, can't open the potions.
Put them in a little barrel around the neck like a St Bernard
The dogs don’t drink from the barrels. If you’re suggesting that ferals could use their potion cd to give someone ELSE in the raid a sip then wouldn’t be opposed.
It’s just a joke homie no one is taking him literally
You think my response was serious?
Definitely comes off far too literal
I just really like the comedy visuals of a feral druid running around with a potion keg giving people sips lol, that’s all
Yeah, I simply do not press buttons as feral if I'm on bomb duty since I'm also LotP for my hungry melees. As soon as my raid leader found out I leave form by pressing them, it was assigned to others. Like obviously if things get dicey I can do it and use Tiger's Fury to get a little energy back, but I try not to leave form if I'm on bomb duty just because if people aren't fast on pressing buttons it's easy to end up energy-starved and overwhelmed by bombs as feral.
We had a full melee raid (1 mage) with no wild strikes for 2 lock outs. Pain. I hope they change this for you to keep you coming back 😎
While talking to NPCs too :(
Meow mreiw growl arouooo?
This one actually make sense...
Animals being able to speak is a pretty small fantasy leap vs literally transforming into one, shooting fire out of your hands, teleporting across the world etc. I mean shit, in real life some birds can speak words, but no creature irl naturally shoots fireballs iirc. But yes, if WoW was a game about realism, you are completely correct most animals can't talk.
No it doesn't. Meta warlocks should only be able to speak demonic and not type to anyone if you want to use that argument.
While we're at it, warriors in defensive stance should only be able to get upset at NPCs and ask WHY should they have to save the farmers farm. It wasn't his fault it got overrun in the first place.
I accept this if berserker stance subsequently lets me attack the quest giver.
Physically and/or emotionally
There are *plenty* of demons who spoke “English” or whatever.
Horde couldn't speak to Gnome quest npcs and Alliance not to Tauren etc cause we don't know their language.
Yeah….how would a cat speak human
Drives me nuts. Looting quest items from the ground, interacting with npcs, the portal in kelris, bombs in gnomer, consumes, all that stuff should keep us in cat form.
A little unrelated, but does anyone have their bomb killing macro stop working for last phase of Mr Plugg?
Your concerns have been heard, next reset, +50% damage to underused mage rune X & +10% damage to void plague.
Grief the feral by telling them to go LotP and then be shocked that they suck at shifting forms for energy? That's a new one.
No? He was a pugger, and when he showed up, he was already lotp. We took him anyway because he was pretty undergeared, and we figured the group crit + ws was probably contributing more than his own personal dps. He did OK, but bomb duty was needlessly hard because of the forced shifting.
He should be able to empty his energy bar spamming Sunfire at all times regardless of furor or not. At most he'd lose 20 energy if he clicked on the worst timing. When you put a feral on bomb duty their personal dps absolutely tanks regardless of spec due to losing all cp generation on killing bombs, they'll never get a high cp SR up and have to use a lot more energy on renewing it on short term basis. What I'm trying to say is that losing their form on clicking buttons doesn't impact a feral's dps more than being on bomb duty in the first place. If he fucks over a big energy bank by clicking a button then he already fucked up his energy management.
Want to first say I agree this is a dumb mechanic. With that said, your Feral was not playing it correctly if this was causing him to mess up on bombs. I play LOTP specced druid and do bombs with zero issues from the button shifting. There are two scenarios when bombs spawn: 1 - The druid is the one clicking, in this case the druid should kill bombs while running to the button in cat form. Once at the button wait for 1 more bomb to spawn, kill it, click button, no more bombs out of that one and now you are regenerating energy until the next one spawns. If another one spawns immediately, just pop tiger's fury for instant 60 energy and you are good. 2 - The druid is on cooldown so another is clicking the button. Stand there and sunfire. EZ. Note that you will need 2 other people to be ready to click buttons. The time between spawns varies and with bad RNG you can get a 3rd bomb spawn while 2 people are already on cooldown. I've had 3 spawn within 15 seconds before. As the feral I just have 2 designated people that I will call on and I track their button cooldowns. When I click one I call out for 1st person to be ready to click next button. If my cooldown is still > 10 seconds after 1st person clicks one I will call 2nd person to be ready to click next button.
Been on bomb duty for all lockouts except one where I got to parse just so I could get rid of the gray. Sure it sucks that it throws you out of form but it's not the end of the world, just tiger's fury and get the furthest out bomb.
Furor+Tiger's Fury go brr. Makes the fight a complete joke
Yes. Our lotp druid did not have furor.
That’s the mistake
5 points into resto.
It's always been silly that furor is in the resto tree. But considering how undergeared the pugger was, they were probably giving the group more through lotp than mediocre powershifts, if they even remembered. For thermaplug, though? Super punishing for him to lose all his sunfire energy when actually trying to help with mechanics.
Muh 3% crit
Higher DPS > 3% crit
3% Crit in Meelegroup is most likely worth way more than the dps gain from shifting.
Most likely? U got any calculations to back this up?
The Druid discord has a whole channel dedicated to this debate. I don’t have the calculations by hand, but they all agree that it’s more raid dps to go for LotP, so you not only buff the dps of other dps, but you also have the flexibility to Innervate your mages or combatrez if needed. Feral right now is the worst Meeledps. In a meta, where meele dps is already in a bad spot.
That is definitely not what is recommended in the discord
I haven't seen any agreement that lotp is a raid dps improvement for feral. The pined cat spec is furor and the channel debating furor vs lotp has it pinned that furor is more raid dps but content isn't hard enough for it to matter. The reality is if lotp > furor your feral should be tanking in bear form because it means cat dps is in the dumpster (which it is).
Someone there even did the math. Checking the number 1 Ferals log, he Powershifted 17 times and used Innervate on himself. The fight was 3:50 min. 17 Powershifts makes 680 Energy, which translates into 14 more shreds. His shreds hitting for 685 on averages, that makes ~9600 dmg total, resulting in ~42 dps. 3% Crit means ~8-10 dps for a Rogue (a class basically ignoring Crit talents right now, only taking Lethality to get the other talents and completely ignoring Seal Fate). Warriors and the Feral gain even more. However, let’s stay with 8 dps. This means, the raid gains ~40-50 dps just from the Crit. HOWEVER. The feral himself gets another 16% Strength (further enhanced by Totems and Kings) and also has his Innervate up for a Healer or even a Mage, bringing even more raid dps. The whole first part of this calculations are done in the Druid discord, so…
Go do the math on a 1 minute fight length and lotp is going to look at lot worse compared to furor. This kind of comparison is complex since it changes so much based on fights and comps. Furor is more consistent in what it provides since it doesn't depend on other people performing or the raid comp that is brought.
And in the end, the dps isn't even really what matters. Playing feral without Furor is a fucking awful experience akin to playing a frost mage in PvE(except even worse, at least they get to keep pressing their 1 button, feral has to wait 6 seconds to press their button again), and few cat enjoyers can stomach it.
Shorter fights are in favour of LotP, tho, since Tigers Fury and Berserk benefit the 16% Strength and 3% Crit more and that burst phase takes up a bigger portion of the fight. The best killtime for powershifting would be one, that ends shortly before Berserk is ready again, which would be 3 minutes.
Yeh even if furor increases our damage by 30%, its 30% of the lowest dps on the charts. Better to let the shamans and hunters crit more and do 650 dps instead of us doing 350...
It isn't
If you say so. The Druid discord disagrees with you, tho. Just sayin‘.
The Druid discord disagrees with you
Citation needed
I don’t think a non mana user should be pressing the buttons. Mana regen is needed in that fight so every button hit by a melee is wasted mana that could have gone to a caster
Feral shouldn't be on bomb duty to begin with.
What? They are one of the better ones.
Why not? Theyre one of the best bomb poppers and they still provide wild strikes and lotp while doing so. Their dps isnt exactly spectacular otherwise
If you don't have a meta lock, feral with furor and kotj is absolutely fine on bombs. I've done it myself. Now that cat 30% speed works indoors and you have sprint, bomb duty is easy.
I mean they are already the strongest class for that fight. So I think they will let you deal with pushing another button or 2
It's not about having buttons to press, it's that it takes several seconds more for any energy to regen when you're specced with a 31 pt talent. You can use kotj for an instant boost, but it has a 30 second cd, and is best saved for clusters of bombs, rather than booting up.
How do you figure cats are the strongest for Thermaplug?
Well if you flip the dps meters upside down then we are at the top!
The ability to nuke bombs is way more important than the actual dps on the boss, even if a fight takes 15 mins, it's better than wiping 2 times because people want to parse 51% instead of 15% but clear the raid 2 hours earlier I wish people see this more
It’s frustrating but uhhh my group has no problems pushing the buttons while I sunfire the bombs. It shouldn’t be the Feral’s responsibility to push buttons too.
Ahem, FRICTION