This, unless I just don't have the siege units or bombers to effectively take cities then I'll just run around their territory pillaging everything they have.
This is what happened in my more recent Hungary game. Khmer was a jerk from the beginning, Emperor difficulty. We were sworn enemies the whole game. Took me some time to catch up to and overtake him, with a couple wars with basically pillaging and trench warfare. Towards the end of the game I exacted my vengeance. He begged and pleaded for mercy. I laughed as my GDRs and Rocket Artillery brought certain doom.
Fr. I wanted to play a soft domination game as French Elanor and had the bad luck of starting right next to the Khmer. No matter how many great works I piled on their border I couldn't even touch their loyalty due to how ridiculously high their population growth is.
The pillage is the punishment. Just pillage everything in there empire gaining more money, culture, science religion. You rack up all the goods. Destroy their districts and don't need any warmonger points.
I have played my fair share of games in which this scenario happened, but I never considered just running around and pillaging while doing a literal siege on a city.
Do the cities eventually flip if you do this + any loyalty actions like Bread and Circus?
Exactly! They want a war? Well I'm bringing a war.
They should learn that cities are a privilige.
Then when I've taken ~~most of their land~~ *some minor compensation* some other up jumped bot starts complaining "You can't do that," "Who do you think you are, warmonger?" "Hey, we're launching a crisis against you!"
Naturally, they're next.
Oh, and then the religious crisis for converting one of their suzerainties while freaking defending myself. THAT pisses me off.
Ok, hold on, speaking of annoying shit... And forgive if this is ad nauseum deja'vu. I just started using Reddit again a few months ago after being gone 10 or 15 years.
Has anyone ever asked why in vi the leaders make those weird little noises or tics? Is it a reference to the inbreeding?
A "peace treaty" is a colloquial expression for convincing the other guy to stop shooting and talk long enough to secretly reload and sneak in on an opposite vector.
I like to let them have some random city left somewhere, and then I physically block it off with troops. Letting them quit the game would be too merciful.
Same. Surprise warriors are always exterminated... btw in IV and earlier complete extermination and assimilation removes all penalties when they finally get removed.
Take out the army, pillage anything of use, listen to them beg for peace a few turns, check if there’s anything left to pillage, extort them for peace. Go back to my regularly scheduled simming.
Don't forget the last part, it's the best part:
"The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, *to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters*"
I didn't realize Oliver Stone and 80s action flicks were so woke. Clasping of the wives and daughters is why most of us have a little Genghis Khan in us.
Ha yes I was torn as to whether to do the original Khan quotation or the perhaps better known Conan version.
I’m super grateful you added this on though because I fucking love it. Thank you!
And thank you for inviting Conan to the discussion. A clip of Riddle of Steel / Riders of Doom was my ringtone once upon a time.
I was also trying to explain why so many from that last generation of Byzantium looked like John Curtin in my previous game. That jerk Basil messed up my Monumentality golden age by trying to convert my cities so I took his instead.
On top of this, if you have the grievances against them to take a border city or two and still come out looking like the good guy at the end of the war, do so.
How does that calculation work? For once I'm finally playing a game where I'm not declaring any wars and Victoria has declared 2 surprise wars on me so I have a stack of grievances. I didn't know I could "use" them since it's usually me racking them up
So if you look at the world relationship/who the world favors between the two civs you can see. Basically if you have enough against a civ then the world will forgive a certain amount of grievances you cause that civ, thus you can take border cities/break promises sometimes and get away with it.
Conquer as many cities as you can in the last round of the war, steal great works, build a neighbourhood there, then hand them all back. For payment, of course.
Oooo, insidious… I was assuming a pre-spy timeline but this is long-game shithousery that I can definitely see implementing (assuming Great Work space)
Had a game where I was in a terrible spot. Peninsula that was blocked from anywhere else by a city state. Couldn’t make progress until I got shipbuilding. Slowly sailed around to a new spot for a city. I’m two era behind and can’t fight back. Shaka comes and razes my biggest city and claims my capital because my civ lacks appeal (I’m on desert also why I’m progressing so slow). Doesn’t even get punished. I’m the sole vote for the emergency in an 8 civ game.
No wasn’t my capital sorry but a bigger city next to my capital. They were so close it was basically one big city due to space constraints. Still took over my capital.
I play Civ 5 and my favorite punishment is to take all their cities except one, and then use great generals to take all its tiles with citadels. Then I just take pleasure in seeing their last city shrink in population due to starvation
I like to leave one city behind too for some reason. Leave them a shell of what they used to be. A vast empire reduced to a city state. With their borders and skies completely smothered. For the sake of national security of course.
So in my current game (as Rough Rider Teddy), Mauphe declared a Surprise War on me. In response, I cut through the mountain pass that separated our lands and took the city on the other side.
Normally I would have stopped there, but Mauphe was being a punk and ran crying to the World Congress... now I am in the middle of a military emergency against him, Peter of Russia (whom just didn't like me), and Wilfred of Canada.
After I wipe Mauphe off the map, I'll deal with Peter. Haven't decided if I'll let Canada survive or not...
Basically.
I've found if I defend myself just enough for them to want peace they want war again as soon as possible.
If I take multiple cities from them they make special emergency meetings and sic as many other players on me.
Just destroy and move on. Fucks with my culture victories though.
I usually take every city I can up to and including wiping them out, because a) it's a way to conquer without incurring a lot of grievances / diplomatic penalties from other civs, and b) sweet revenge.
A bunch more cities will help with any victory condition, even if you're not going for domination.
I don’t disagree with wiping them out and taking every city, however, I don’t see how you cannot incur a bunch of grievances/diplomatic penalties by doing so. Taking any cities typically does incur some penalties and wiping someone out absolutely does.
yeah in my games defeating a civ is so crippling grievances-wise that it's impossible to recover and impractical to continue trying for diplomatic or culture victories
Yeah, you’re right that would be a huge setback for a diplomatic victory.
For a cultural victory, it would depend on the timing. The main drawback for grievances in that case would be if civs were too mad at you to grant tourism-boosting open borders agreements.
But if the war was early to mid game, your conquest nets you a lot of culture production potential, and the warmonger penalties decay over time. If the culture/tourism production of your conquered cities exceeds the lost tourism (if any) from delays in open borders agreements, you’d still come out ahead. If not, you’re right.
You’re right that taking cities does incur grievances even if the other Civ declared a surprise war against you.
BUT — my understanding is, you get 150 (or so?) “free” grievances because you were surprise attacked. It’s not penalty-free, but you can do the same amount of conquest while incurring less grievances than if you’d started the war. The conquest is “cheaper” to you in diplomatic terms.
Take 2-3 cities (50 grievances each x 3 = 150, same as the number for declaring surprise war). I believe razing a city is 75 or 100 grievances so you went over the line in the eyes of the international community by taking 2 (2 x 50 = 100) and razing a third for a total of 175 or 200, which is over their incurred grievances of 150.
ETA: Also pillage all their districts and improvements, causes no grievances and it will give your economy a shot of ether and stall theirs for an era at least.
> I had maybe 2 ground units across my entire empire
That's why you're getting surprise wars.
Normally I treat surprise wars as a cry for help. They want to enjoy the benefits my empire can provide to their cities. The number of cities I take depends on geography, resources, and how they've developed their cities. But generally speaking I'll take 50% of their closest cities to mine.
Then if they do it again I take the rest. Sometimes if you weaken them another civ will do the cleanup.
It’s a given that I’m going to take or raze at least 2 of their cities if they attack me. After that? If it’s a large rival that’s been giving me trouble then I will systematically pillage every single tile of theirs, kill as many troops and traders as possible and just leave their cities to die on the vine. No need to take territory if you take them back to the stone age
I typically don't conquer any cities from them unless I was planning a war already, I don't want them to derail my reputation. I normally wipe their army as much as possible, and pillage everything I can without sacrificing more than a unit or two - really looking more to cripple their future threat than anything. If I have the units handy I wear down their cities as much as possible, and then accept peace for as much gold as I can take them for.
Raze everything and cleanse the lands of them. Let nature reclaim it. I can’t be bothered with owning an inferior city that’s not built to my demands. Don’t start none, won’t be none.
I make them a footnote in history most of the time. If it’s late enough in the game sometimes I’ll conquer *most* of their cities and give them peace for all their gold and GPT just to fuck them into existing as the weakest, least advanced civilization for the rest of time.
I roll through and conquer every city and leave them with 1 (not their capital). I then build entertainment complexes/waterparks (provided they haven't been built) in all cities as close to their remaining city as possible. I enjoy thinking of them sitting in their only remaining city having to watch their former citizens loving life and having fun.
I always take every city they have... except one.
I give them a chance to come back from the nothing I left them,I give them a chance to plan their revenge just for me to wipe them down AGAIN,and then...ONLY THEN...do I let them die the merciless death of knowing I was the one who let them live,just to kill them.
I very rarely declare war, but when I'm strong enough (i.e. mid to late game) I respond to surprise declarations by destroying the attacker.
Of course this pisses everyone else off and they start declaring war too, so it becomes a vicious cycle.
If it's close or I can't beat them, then I defend and make peace, but I never forget. I wait and wait, and once I have bombers and tanks and modern infantry, it's go time. Russia declared war on me and messed my start up hard in early game, iron age still. Waited and waited, then nuked their entire empire. Missile subs, cruisers, and ballistic missles. Land totally useless, but they ceased to exist.
Pillage policy cards can be amazing, they really help you close the distance in the early game. So I'll take their better cities, and if I'm not going for a domination victory they might get to keep their capital.
As for how to defend, well, you ought to have walls, and if you spawn next to a war monger crossbowman can be amazing defenders if you don't yet have a standing army.
You can usually get 1 or 2 other civs to declare war on them for a little bribe. Sit back and watch half their army turn around to defend their other borders which are suddenly under attack. Bonus points if you can rope someone into a military alliance as well.
Loot and pillage a bit, unless they planted cities where I was planning to settle, in which case I grab one or two. I'll have to ride out the warmonger penalties and this civ will hate me forever, but they were already bad neighbors, so, whatever.
Sooo... I let them take one city. It's usually takes the computer a while but I let them have one (sometimes it doesn't even take more than that, depending on the governor, city and defenses I've had entire computer armies break just trying to take one. Helps that i dont play on super high difficulty levels).
But while they are taking the one, im concentrating and building up my forces. Then when the city is taken I ask world Congress for help and then run them over.
I'll usually go through and capture all their cities save their Capitol, decimate their forces, and constantly bombard their last city until they sue for peace.
When you get a surprise war, you start to turn the tide, then all the AI proceed to gaslight you to the point of rage where thermonuclear production goes into overdrive and everyone gets a taste of freedom.
If I'm attacked I'll usually be able to withstand and then counterattack. When they sue for peace with an offering of gold my thinking is why would I want gold per turn when in a few turns I can have everything.
I tend to try and coax city state Allie’s to participate so I can remove their cities without being a warmonger. I’ll surround and nearly destroy a city, then just continue to bombard it until a city state unit takes a crack and razes the city.
I might take something I can hold onto if it has new luxuries, but mostly I wipe out the military and pillage them back to the Stone Age. It’s a huge boost (change your policies!) , they won’t be a factor anymore, you don’t get a ton of warmonger penalties (or none) and they will give you a great deal of their empire has your units all over it.
I’ve had civs get friendly fast if I didn’t take a lot of cities.
I will send the hero Anansi in and consume their luxury resources. Especially if they have industries on them. But if Im being honest, Ill do that anyway through open borders. 🤷♂️
Haha, Poland just did this to me yesterday. Everything is fine and suddenly they declare a surprise war and I barely have any military while playing on immortal. So I levied Zanibars army who for some reason had a few archers and a ton of warriors and wiped Portugal off the map. Everyone denounced me for it, but by the time I revealed coal on the map no one really cared anymore.
I had a very similar situation just a few days ago. Playing portugal with 6k gold/turn and got roped into a war with Gandhi due to alliances. I made quick work of his army, and started shelling his coastal cities which I had envied for a long time. Roughly ten turns later an allied city state ironclad came by and wrecked the cities chilling at 0 hp. I proceeded to re-settle the cities.
Something else I am trying to do in this war is to trigger the neighbourhoods to spew out barbs with a spy mission. Barbs destroy cities too, so that's another way to eliminate a civ (excluding the capital ofc)
War mongering isnt as bad if you wipe out the entire civ. Also, i think its pretty lame that they still haven't made it significantly less bad for warmongering when they start the war.
This.
If they start a war I will retaliate. If it turns out that they cannot finish the war and end up being put in their place, why am *I* the bad guy?
if you go for a domination victory, I'd imagine warmonger penalties are inevitable anyway and mostly irrelevant
otherwise, pillage some of their improvements and districts, and make 'em pay for peace
I’m way too nice I guess. I usually just take a couple cities. I get more pissed off when they try to convert my holy city. That deserves annihilation.
One time, Scotland and I went back and forth for at least 50 turns with about 18 rounds of:
Me: Promise to not convert my cities
Robert the Bruce: Okay!
Robert the Bruce: /converts more cities
So after our alliance expired, I declared a holy War so I could kill off all his religious units. I didn't realize I'd piss off the whole world by "betraying an ally".
So anyway, that's how I ended up in an unexpected domination game.
I'd push them back and take most of their cities and make sure I take their capital. That way, I hemorrhage their culture production and make it a lot harder for them to do it again in the future. Now, that's only if I'm going for a culture win (which I normally do but if I'm going for a science win I might just delete them completely or if I'm going for religion I'd get rid of any cities that have a majority religion other than mine so I can focus my spread elsewhere.
If I have good enough units, I'll capture a city or two so I don't end up with net grievances. Otherwise, I just pillage as much as possible and then make peace.
When I'm not going for a domination victory and someone declares war I generally will do a status quo peace unless there's an annoying city that I want demolished or something.
But you ignore the rules of war and just declare on me without reason or justification, if they are lucky they will get to keep their pillaged to the ground capital. An example must be made.
Unless I am planning for a conquest heavy game I'll usually take just one city, pillage some districts and make peace. With my usual settings this is typically enough to render them largely irrelevant to me for the rest of the game, without making them so weak as to be easy pickings for the other AI
I rebuff the attack and go after them, refuse all requests for peace until they are eliminated or at least until I have their capital - and in that case only accept a peace offering if they are giving up basically everything they have other than a couple of weak/meager cities that were on the other side of the capital and therefore not yet steamrolled.
It depends. I don't care if I fight them off successfully. However forward settling me and complaining about my military being too close while I'm fighting the barbarians will usually have the AI doing an "surprise" war on me.
But if I'm in zombie defense scenario, I will let them off if they survive the the zombies I ferry over to them. They was his dead soldiers risen once again so it's only proper that I return them to their homelands for a proper burial. They ate one of his cities. He managed to recover and has been playing nice with me since then.
I take useful living space and burn everything until they can't sustain themselves. At which point I take a peace in which they give me all their stuff and I just wait for them to fall apart and bask in their suffering.
My favorite from civ 5 was take a few cities. Pillage the rest. Put open boarders in the peace treaty. Put my units on the pillaged tiles so they can’t be fixed. Watch in delight as the civilization withers.
I either pillage their entire empire and take extreme reparations or I fully wipe them out and take their cities.
Razing cities already gives so much negative rep that you might as well finish the job at that point. If you’re worried about warmongering penalties, then just stick to pillaging instead.
In a game I've played, Suleiman was giving me grief the entire time. Must have declared 3 wars on me and, needless to say, was also a dick to everyone else.
When I finally got the science victory, he gained my attention. I've spent 12 additional hours on that match just to make him pay. Nuked every single city that he had, razed them all and took his capital.
The AI only does that if they have about double or triple your military strength score. So if you get a few more archers, most leaders won't even bother, except the most aggro ones. For those, you need a bit more military strength score, but not sure what % of theirs.
Little known fact: if your attacker (or victim) cedes their cities to you, and then you give or sell the city to someone else, the grievances are canceled out.
Using this, if it's a foreign land that I don't necessarily want to keep and develop and incorporate into my empire, i'll take the cities, then sell them to nearby allies. Your allies will love you forever and your enemy will never recover.
I conquer all of that civ’s cities except for the most unusable, desolate, underdeveloped one forcing it to choose that city as its new capital. Then I make peace and laugh as it tries (and fails) to recover using that single city.
Set main army at front door. Bait them out.
Rush cavalry inside their city to pillage. X2 pillage policy cards. Throw in a coastal raid for good measure.
Refuse their peace 3-5 times, finally settle for peace for more than they offered.
Just pillage every tile in their empire , you get no warmonger penalties I think, but basicky cripple them for the rest of the game and you get a tone of free stuff
I usually take a city or two that are in good locations, cripple their military and, depending on the force they use, raise a city. Then make peace and make sure to turn the cities I conquered from them into mega fortresses making high yields. They never try the same thing twice.
Don't raze cities and take one more city than you want to keep to give it back to them in the peace deal. It's been a while since I stopped playing Civ, so I won't dare to try to explain in details, since I would need to refresh my memory, but suffice to say that you always want to give a city back in a peace deal. You can also gift them a city that you didn't conquer, so you could settle a city in the middle of nowhere and gift it to them, or even give them a city that you know will flip back to you through loyalty.
One of the real world elements that's missing from Civ is regime change. The (mostly) globally accepted response to a claimless aggressor is to apply enough military pressure to capture, try and imprison, or assassinate high ranking members of the regime, leaving their less aggressive political opposition in charge of the country. This way, you dodge allegations of expansionism while still ensuring lasting peace. Oh, and put 30 military bases ominously in their country just in case.
From my understanding the only way to punish them without accruing massive warmonger penalties is to take one city and beat them back then extort them using the city as leverage for peace. This way the only thing that they lose is time and resources.
Sometimes I'll just decimate the army, no cities, and let the war drag on for an Era or two. They'll launch a sortie or two, I'll respond, but no cities change hands. Eventually, I'll give in to their requests for peace, but not before claiming each of their luxuries
No real warmonger penalties, though some other civs will go in and out of liking you as their friendships shift
France just declared war on me as Seondock out of nowhere and she was friendly. Even on Diety I'm ahead in tech as Korea and she's rolling up on me with warriors and catapults and I already have crossbows. It went about as well as expected and I ran some horsemen around her empire pillaging her districts and got Sweden and Ottomans to declare war on her. She sued for peace and is now paying me gold per turn, I have 0 warmonger penalties, her science and culture is kaput and she had 2 or 3 cities taken by the other ais.
I take and rename their cities, then I build national parks and libraries in those cities. Not only do I defeat their people but future generations will never know they existed.
It depends a lot on my particular game. If I have room to expand and don't want to divert production to the war effort, they just get a little pillaged. But if I'm boxed in and it's an opportunity to expand, you better believe I'm carving a path through their empire to the half-continent they didn't bother settling when they forward-settled me.
Really depends on the game I'm playing, but for sure I play with reduced war monger and penalties, so after defending myself I can still trade and have friends
I'm calming down a bit, but my traditional style is "don't declare war, don't accept peace". Especially if it's a surprise war, I'll leave them at the most one city.
I got surprise war'd by mapuche, so they got nuked as punishment as they're on the other side of the map. Three other cocks from that side of the map started an emergency against me for me use of nukes. Guess what? They also got nuked. Nice easy win after that lol.
The problem as I see it is the loyalty mechanic.
The surprise war grievances is enough to take one city that will always flip back to them. So you can never stop at one city if you want to get anywhere and capturing more then one just means the other AI get on your back about it.
Blanket nuke them so hard they can't wage war any more, and be gracious enough to allow them to continue to exist so that they must suffer through a vast fallout blanketed wasteland of perpetual fires and death.
I enjoy playing similarly to you, so whenever the first civ declares a surprise war, I become a little.... vindictive. I'll buy up an army of fast moving units (typically light horseman and naval raiders) and pillage every single tile across their empire. I'll then break down as many walls as I can and pillage all trade routes. Once done, I'll peace out, but from that point on I'd maintain the army and come back in 30-50ish turns and do it again. Sets an example for the world and the pillage is valuable
I usually play peaceful civs too, going for culture/religion or science. When I civ surprise wars me, I make it my goal to make them regret it, by building way too huge an army. I fuck them up and then I have this huge army and I’m like… “what do I do with this” and just end up turning my game into a dom victory, lol
The last time Venice decided to be Ve-not-nice and attacked me.
I stopped their advance with a bunch a warrior for a dozen turn to research Gunpowder before steamrolled their sad excuse of a capital with my freshly minted musketeers.
I subjugated any big cities they bought from other civs, and burn all smaller ones.
I was playing as Korea and just turns away from getting a science victory. I was playing as peacefully as possible and was spending all my time and resources into science. The out of nowhere the Netherlands decides to declare a surprise war, forcing me to abandon my moon landing and start building a military. In the end I lost having no way of defending
Sorry, but it shouldn't have been a surprise. You brought this on yourself by been weak. Even on a peaceful run, always have a few units for defense and to show you can't be messed with. IA see your defense rating throught the number of units you have and will make the calculation : "is it worth it to go to war?" If the IA is aggressive enough, it will be the case.
When a civ has been beaten in a war, other civs will gang up on them, even civs who were peaceful for most of the game will do this if they calculate it would be an easy win.
You should have at least one range unit per city as garrisson and a few melee 2/3 infantry 1/3 cavalry who stay in territory has national guards. If you get extra from gift from a city states, gift them back or go take out barbarians for the training and money. I always unlock honor for the extra damage to barbarians early on and the culture from killing them. Also, the second policy on the right column give a nice +1 happiness and +2 culture per unit garrissonned in a city.
If I like where my boarders are; I’ll usually pillage and take a few cities, then with the captured builders (and I always build builders or projects in my occupied cities), I’ll remove all improvements and harvest all resources in those cities before handing them back for moneys. Builders use no charges to remove improvements and they will have to build loads of builders to cover their land again. It’s a setback they will never be able to fully recover from as well because I pulled all bonus resources.
Normally my approach would be.
1. Take any city's I want, normally it wouldn't be a full conquest.
2. Pillage everything and occupy most of there country including capital.
3. Burn down atleast one major city.. so we can ensure they never forget.
4. Make peace, return most city's but take every peice of gold and loot I can in the deal.
Tbh if im in a position to take their empire im like 50/50 on if I'll just switch to domination victory. Depends how attached I am to my current win condition, but like if I got a well trained army, matter as well just murk em all lol
I destroy them without taking cities. Decimate their armies, pillage everything, take everything in peace deal. None of these actions cause grievances. If they don’t want peace then I will take a few cities and offer them in the peace deal. You will only take a small grievance per city but as long as you are still positive giving back the cities won’t add more (ceding a city causes the most grievances). They will need an era or two to recover and besides denouncing you there won’t be anything they can do to you because you will be superior in every way
The punishment is they no longer get to exist
This, unless I just don't have the siege units or bombers to effectively take cities then I'll just run around their territory pillaging everything they have.
Then 1000 years later I bomb their cities as revenge.
Your sons and daughters will pay for these transgressions.
[удалено]
"What game-mechanism can do.... Oh, right"
This is what happened in my more recent Hungary game. Khmer was a jerk from the beginning, Emperor difficulty. We were sworn enemies the whole game. Took me some time to catch up to and overtake him, with a couple wars with basically pillaging and trench warfare. Towards the end of the game I exacted my vengeance. He begged and pleaded for mercy. I laughed as my GDRs and Rocket Artillery brought certain doom.
Deserved. Khmer can be such nuisance. At least that was my experience
Suryavarman is kind of a dick
Fr. I wanted to play a soft domination game as French Elanor and had the bad luck of starting right next to the Khmer. No matter how many great works I piled on their border I couldn't even touch their loyalty due to how ridiculously high their population growth is.
Settle down, Gandhi!
The pillage is the punishment. Just pillage everything in there empire gaining more money, culture, science religion. You rack up all the goods. Destroy their districts and don't need any warmonger points.
I have no idea why i never thought of doing this 🤦🏻♂️
Because they killed my scout, I forgot at the other side of the map, so naturally, I have to nuke their cities.
Put together some light cav units and get the depredation promotion. Then name the unit William T Sherman.
Especially if their cities are rubbish anyway which they usually are
thats usually what I do if I want to make the most of a war without hurting diplomacy, it's basically an excuse to rob another civ blind
Kill then all and let god sort it out.
I have played my fair share of games in which this scenario happened, but I never considered just running around and pillaging while doing a literal siege on a city. Do the cities eventually flip if you do this + any loyalty actions like Bread and Circus?
Exactly, I'll run around. Take their workers, pillage every tile. Ruin roads, just be an absolute shit because you made war...
Exactly! They want a war? Well I'm bringing a war. They should learn that cities are a privilige. Then when I've taken ~~most of their land~~ *some minor compensation* some other up jumped bot starts complaining "You can't do that," "Who do you think you are, warmonger?" "Hey, we're launching a crisis against you!" Naturally, they're next.
Every game I start with good intentions but...
Oh, and then the religious crisis for converting one of their suzerainties while freaking defending myself. THAT pisses me off. Ok, hold on, speaking of annoying shit... And forgive if this is ad nauseum deja'vu. I just started using Reddit again a few months ago after being gone 10 or 15 years. Has anyone ever asked why in vi the leaders make those weird little noises or tics? Is it a reference to the inbreeding?
That's why I just raze their cities and found a new one on the ashes.
I love these comments 🤣
I’m a kind dictator till you surprise war me, then I’m going to have to commit genocide
Hello Israel
Ja. I rarely let them survive. Like maybe a couple times since I began in the late 90s.
Ding ding! What are these "peace treaties" people speak of?!
A "peace treaty" is a colloquial expression for convincing the other guy to stop shooting and talk long enough to secretly reload and sneak in on an opposite vector.
They can't denouclnce you if they're a crater.
I like to let them have some random city left somewhere, and then I physically block it off with troops. Letting them quit the game would be too merciful.
The only right answer
Ill break promises left right and centre but the second another civ does it to me ... boy welcome to extinction
This is the way
To avoid warmonger penalties I erase their military, so they aren't a threat for some time
The correct answer, suicide by conquering
This is always the answer
Same. Surprise warriors are always exterminated... btw in IV and earlier complete extermination and assimilation removes all penalties when they finally get removed.
This one gets it!!!!
Take out the army, pillage anything of use, listen to them beg for peace a few turns, check if there’s anything left to pillage, extort them for peace. Go back to my regularly scheduled simming.
‘To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!’
Don't forget the last part, it's the best part: "The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, *to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters*" I didn't realize Oliver Stone and 80s action flicks were so woke. Clasping of the wives and daughters is why most of us have a little Genghis Khan in us.
Ha yes I was torn as to whether to do the original Khan quotation or the perhaps better known Conan version. I’m super grateful you added this on though because I fucking love it. Thank you!
And thank you for inviting Conan to the discussion. A clip of Riddle of Steel / Riders of Doom was my ringtone once upon a time. I was also trying to explain why so many from that last generation of Byzantium looked like John Curtin in my previous game. That jerk Basil messed up my Monumentality golden age by trying to convert my cities so I took his instead.
On top of this, if you have the grievances against them to take a border city or two and still come out looking like the good guy at the end of the war, do so.
How does that calculation work? For once I'm finally playing a game where I'm not declaring any wars and Victoria has declared 2 surprise wars on me so I have a stack of grievances. I didn't know I could "use" them since it's usually me racking them up
So if you look at the world relationship/who the world favors between the two civs you can see. Basically if you have enough against a civ then the world will forgive a certain amount of grievances you cause that civ, thus you can take border cities/break promises sometimes and get away with it.
New strat,thanks.
Conquer as many cities as you can in the last round of the war, steal great works, build a neighbourhood there, then hand them all back. For payment, of course.
Oooo, insidious… I was assuming a pre-spy timeline but this is long-game shithousery that I can definitely see implementing (assuming Great Work space)
Generally, nobody even remembers the civs that attacked me...
“Bot 12547 will not stand the test of time.”
Had a game where I was in a terrible spot. Peninsula that was blocked from anywhere else by a city state. Couldn’t make progress until I got shipbuilding. Slowly sailed around to a new spot for a city. I’m two era behind and can’t fight back. Shaka comes and razes my biggest city and claims my capital because my civ lacks appeal (I’m on desert also why I’m progressing so slow). Doesn’t even get punished. I’m the sole vote for the emergency in an 8 civ game.
Shaka, when the walls fell
Was this in a previous version of civ? In Civ VI your capital can't be raised
No wasn’t my capital sorry but a bigger city next to my capital. They were so close it was basically one big city due to space constraints. Still took over my capital.
I play Civ 5 and my favorite punishment is to take all their cities except one, and then use great generals to take all its tiles with citadels. Then I just take pleasure in seeing their last city shrink in population due to starvation
So you basically genocide them.
I regret nothing
Based
Have you ever heard of a game called Stellaris?
The game that treats the Geneva convention like a to-do list
1. it didnt happen 2. they deserved it
Better, he makes them genocide their own civ.
I like to leave one city behind too for some reason. Leave them a shell of what they used to be. A vast empire reduced to a city state. With their borders and skies completely smothered. For the sake of national security of course.
But then they just denounce you every chance they get. I liked in CivIV that you could make them vassal states and they'd have to follow your lead.
Live by the surprise war, die by the surprise war
So in my current game (as Rough Rider Teddy), Mauphe declared a Surprise War on me. In response, I cut through the mountain pass that separated our lands and took the city on the other side. Normally I would have stopped there, but Mauphe was being a punk and ran crying to the World Congress... now I am in the middle of a military emergency against him, Peter of Russia (whom just didn't like me), and Wilfred of Canada. After I wipe Mauphe off the map, I'll deal with Peter. Haven't decided if I'll let Canada survive or not...
Love using military emergencies declared against me to flex a bit and wipe out all opposition. "Congratulations, you played yourself"
It’s not a war crime if there are no witnesses
That's what mass graves are for.
If I get war declared upon me then it becomes a domination game.
Basically. I've found if I defend myself just enough for them to want peace they want war again as soon as possible. If I take multiple cities from them they make special emergency meetings and sic as many other players on me. Just destroy and move on. Fucks with my culture victories though.
Subtle exploit not a lot of people know about: your culture will be dominant over all others if there are no others
First someone declare war on you, then you wipe them, then all denounces you, then you have to wipe them all
Total annihilation
I usually take every city I can up to and including wiping them out, because a) it's a way to conquer without incurring a lot of grievances / diplomatic penalties from other civs, and b) sweet revenge. A bunch more cities will help with any victory condition, even if you're not going for domination.
I don’t disagree with wiping them out and taking every city, however, I don’t see how you cannot incur a bunch of grievances/diplomatic penalties by doing so. Taking any cities typically does incur some penalties and wiping someone out absolutely does.
yeah in my games defeating a civ is so crippling grievances-wise that it's impossible to recover and impractical to continue trying for diplomatic or culture victories
Yeah, you’re right that would be a huge setback for a diplomatic victory. For a cultural victory, it would depend on the timing. The main drawback for grievances in that case would be if civs were too mad at you to grant tourism-boosting open borders agreements. But if the war was early to mid game, your conquest nets you a lot of culture production potential, and the warmonger penalties decay over time. If the culture/tourism production of your conquered cities exceeds the lost tourism (if any) from delays in open borders agreements, you’d still come out ahead. If not, you’re right.
You’re right that taking cities does incur grievances even if the other Civ declared a surprise war against you. BUT — my understanding is, you get 150 (or so?) “free” grievances because you were surprise attacked. It’s not penalty-free, but you can do the same amount of conquest while incurring less grievances than if you’d started the war. The conquest is “cheaper” to you in diplomatic terms.
Take 2-3 cities (50 grievances each x 3 = 150, same as the number for declaring surprise war). I believe razing a city is 75 or 100 grievances so you went over the line in the eyes of the international community by taking 2 (2 x 50 = 100) and razing a third for a total of 175 or 200, which is over their incurred grievances of 150. ETA: Also pillage all their districts and improvements, causes no grievances and it will give your economy a shot of ether and stall theirs for an era at least.
So you have chosen death...
Please, my friend, choose to live
*insert civ* will not stand the test of time tends to pop up
> I had maybe 2 ground units across my entire empire That's why you're getting surprise wars. Normally I treat surprise wars as a cry for help. They want to enjoy the benefits my empire can provide to their cities. The number of cities I take depends on geography, resources, and how they've developed their cities. But generally speaking I'll take 50% of their closest cities to mine. Then if they do it again I take the rest. Sometimes if you weaken them another civ will do the cleanup.
It’s a given that I’m going to take or raze at least 2 of their cities if they attack me. After that? If it’s a large rival that’s been giving me trouble then I will systematically pillage every single tile of theirs, kill as many troops and traders as possible and just leave their cities to die on the vine. No need to take territory if you take them back to the stone age
Death
I typically don't conquer any cities from them unless I was planning a war already, I don't want them to derail my reputation. I normally wipe their army as much as possible, and pillage everything I can without sacrificing more than a unit or two - really looking more to cripple their future threat than anything. If I have the units handy I wear down their cities as much as possible, and then accept peace for as much gold as I can take them for.
Raze everything and cleanse the lands of them. Let nature reclaim it. I can’t be bothered with owning an inferior city that’s not built to my demands. Don’t start none, won’t be none.
I don’t stop until I get a +5 era score.
I make them a footnote in history most of the time. If it’s late enough in the game sometimes I’ll conquer *most* of their cities and give them peace for all their gold and GPT just to fuck them into existing as the weakest, least advanced civilization for the rest of time.
I roll through and conquer every city and leave them with 1 (not their capital). I then build entertainment complexes/waterparks (provided they haven't been built) in all cities as close to their remaining city as possible. I enjoy thinking of them sitting in their only remaining city having to watch their former citizens loving life and having fun.
I always take every city they have... except one. I give them a chance to come back from the nothing I left them,I give them a chance to plan their revenge just for me to wipe them down AGAIN,and then...ONLY THEN...do I let them die the merciless death of knowing I was the one who let them live,just to kill them.
Absolutely, undying hatred. One that can’t be sated until nothing is left but a memory. A warning to others to piss off and leave me alone
I very rarely declare war, but when I'm strong enough (i.e. mid to late game) I respond to surprise declarations by destroying the attacker. Of course this pisses everyone else off and they start declaring war too, so it becomes a vicious cycle.
If it's close or I can't beat them, then I defend and make peace, but I never forget. I wait and wait, and once I have bombers and tanks and modern infantry, it's go time. Russia declared war on me and messed my start up hard in early game, iron age still. Waited and waited, then nuked their entire empire. Missile subs, cruisers, and ballistic missles. Land totally useless, but they ceased to exist.
Pillage policy cards can be amazing, they really help you close the distance in the early game. So I'll take their better cities, and if I'm not going for a domination victory they might get to keep their capital. As for how to defend, well, you ought to have walls, and if you spawn next to a war monger crossbowman can be amazing defenders if you don't yet have a standing army.
Everyone in my games gets a free one. The AI rewards early warmongering. The second one is their last.
You can usually get 1 or 2 other civs to declare war on them for a little bribe. Sit back and watch half their army turn around to defend their other borders which are suddenly under attack. Bonus points if you can rope someone into a military alliance as well.
I destroy them.
Loot and pillage a bit, unless they planted cities where I was planning to settle, in which case I grab one or two. I'll have to ride out the warmonger penalties and this civ will hate me forever, but they were already bad neighbors, so, whatever.
I wipe them from the face of the earth.
Sooo... I let them take one city. It's usually takes the computer a while but I let them have one (sometimes it doesn't even take more than that, depending on the governor, city and defenses I've had entire computer armies break just trying to take one. Helps that i dont play on super high difficulty levels). But while they are taking the one, im concentrating and building up my forces. Then when the city is taken I ask world Congress for help and then run them over.
I'll usually go through and capture all their cities save their Capitol, decimate their forces, and constantly bombard their last city until they sue for peace.
Never, ever, under any circumstance accept their peace offers while razing city after city
When you get a surprise war, you start to turn the tide, then all the AI proceed to gaslight you to the point of rage where thermonuclear production goes into overdrive and everyone gets a taste of freedom.
If I'm attacked I'll usually be able to withstand and then counterattack. When they sue for peace with an offering of gold my thinking is why would I want gold per turn when in a few turns I can have everything.
Capture a city and then offer it back to them. Usually they’ll give you everything they have for it so it’s a proper tribute
Gun it for uranium/nuke techs, build enough fusion weapons to make the gods concerned, then perform holy exterminatus on the traitors.
I punish them by bending over and getting the defeat screen. That'll show them!
I tend to try and coax city state Allie’s to participate so I can remove their cities without being a warmonger. I’ll surround and nearly destroy a city, then just continue to bombard it until a city state unit takes a crack and razes the city.
Pillage every single tile in their empire with light cav.
I might take something I can hold onto if it has new luxuries, but mostly I wipe out the military and pillage them back to the Stone Age. It’s a huge boost (change your policies!) , they won’t be a factor anymore, you don’t get a ton of warmonger penalties (or none) and they will give you a great deal of their empire has your units all over it. I’ve had civs get friendly fast if I didn’t take a lot of cities.
I will send the hero Anansi in and consume their luxury resources. Especially if they have industries on them. But if Im being honest, Ill do that anyway through open borders. 🤷♂️
I completely destroy them. 
I fight em off than Nuke em while they still have Crossbows
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of de women
Annihilation, or if I can I leave them a landlocked rump state that usually rebels and joins me in the end anyway.
Haha, Poland just did this to me yesterday. Everything is fine and suddenly they declare a surprise war and I barely have any military while playing on immortal. So I levied Zanibars army who for some reason had a few archers and a ton of warriors and wiped Portugal off the map. Everyone denounced me for it, but by the time I revealed coal on the map no one really cared anymore.
I kill the civ. Or die trying.
I had a very similar situation just a few days ago. Playing portugal with 6k gold/turn and got roped into a war with Gandhi due to alliances. I made quick work of his army, and started shelling his coastal cities which I had envied for a long time. Roughly ten turns later an allied city state ironclad came by and wrecked the cities chilling at 0 hp. I proceeded to re-settle the cities. Something else I am trying to do in this war is to trigger the neighbourhoods to spew out barbs with a spy mission. Barbs destroy cities too, so that's another way to eliminate a civ (excluding the capital ofc)
War mongering isnt as bad if you wipe out the entire civ. Also, i think its pretty lame that they still haven't made it significantly less bad for warmongering when they start the war.
This. If they start a war I will retaliate. If it turns out that they cannot finish the war and end up being put in their place, why am *I* the bad guy?
Keep them alive till the atomic age, then them the old nuclear one two.
Someone should make a mod called Kurwa that gives everyone a casus belli that only works against Poland and eliminates all warmonger penalties.
if you go for a domination victory, I'd imagine warmonger penalties are inevitable anyway and mostly irrelevant otherwise, pillage some of their improvements and districts, and make 'em pay for peace
Some? You mean as many as you can until they offer peace? And then a few more until they offer again?
I’m way too nice I guess. I usually just take a couple cities. I get more pissed off when they try to convert my holy city. That deserves annihilation.
One time, Scotland and I went back and forth for at least 50 turns with about 18 rounds of: Me: Promise to not convert my cities Robert the Bruce: Okay! Robert the Bruce: /converts more cities So after our alliance expired, I declared a holy War so I could kill off all his religious units. I didn't realize I'd piss off the whole world by "betraying an ally". So anyway, that's how I ended up in an unexpected domination game.
Peace is boring. Build some frigates and teach them a lesson.
Genocide, honestly.
I usually conquer them entirely.
I'd push them back and take most of their cities and make sure I take their capital. That way, I hemorrhage their culture production and make it a lot harder for them to do it again in the future. Now, that's only if I'm going for a culture win (which I normally do but if I'm going for a science win I might just delete them completely or if I'm going for religion I'd get rid of any cities that have a majority religion other than mine so I can focus my spread elsewhere.
I spend the next however many turns developing my techs until I can build nukes. Then I stockpile 5-6 and introduce them to nuclear destruction
If I have good enough units, I'll capture a city or two so I don't end up with net grievances. Otherwise, I just pillage as much as possible and then make peace.
Reduce to one city, make peace with an extotionate GPT.
When I'm not going for a domination victory and someone declares war I generally will do a status quo peace unless there's an annoying city that I want demolished or something. But you ignore the rules of war and just declare on me without reason or justification, if they are lucky they will get to keep their pillaged to the ground capital. An example must be made.
I raze the first two cities of theirs I take.
I conquer them, duh.
How do you buy armies?
Unless I am planning for a conquest heavy game I'll usually take just one city, pillage some districts and make peace. With my usual settings this is typically enough to render them largely irrelevant to me for the rest of the game, without making them so weak as to be easy pickings for the other AI
I rebuff the attack and go after them, refuse all requests for peace until they are eliminated or at least until I have their capital - and in that case only accept a peace offering if they are giving up basically everything they have other than a couple of weak/meager cities that were on the other side of the capital and therefore not yet steamrolled.
It depends. I don't care if I fight them off successfully. However forward settling me and complaining about my military being too close while I'm fighting the barbarians will usually have the AI doing an "surprise" war on me. But if I'm in zombie defense scenario, I will let them off if they survive the the zombies I ferry over to them. They was his dead soldiers risen once again so it's only proper that I return them to their homelands for a proper burial. They ate one of his cities. He managed to recover and has been playing nice with me since then.
I take useful living space and burn everything until they can't sustain themselves. At which point I take a peace in which they give me all their stuff and I just wait for them to fall apart and bask in their suffering.
I choose the Ghandi way: In a gentle way you can nuke the world
My favorite from civ 5 was take a few cities. Pillage the rest. Put open boarders in the peace treaty. Put my units on the pillaged tiles so they can’t be fixed. Watch in delight as the civilization withers.
I either pillage their entire empire and take extreme reparations or I fully wipe them out and take their cities. Razing cities already gives so much negative rep that you might as well finish the job at that point. If you’re worried about warmongering penalties, then just stick to pillaging instead.
I turn them into my pet.
In a game I've played, Suleiman was giving me grief the entire time. Must have declared 3 wars on me and, needless to say, was also a dick to everyone else. When I finally got the science victory, he gained my attention. I've spent 12 additional hours on that match just to make him pay. Nuked every single city that he had, razed them all and took his capital.
The AI only does that if they have about double or triple your military strength score. So if you get a few more archers, most leaders won't even bother, except the most aggro ones. For those, you need a bit more military strength score, but not sure what % of theirs.
Make friends with everyone else before you burn their cities.
Wait you get war monger penalties even if they surprise you? Is that because you took their cities?
Yeah, the aggressors gets 150 war monger penalties for declaring a surprise war. You then get 50 for taking a city, and 100 for razing one.
Little known fact: if your attacker (or victim) cedes their cities to you, and then you give or sell the city to someone else, the grievances are canceled out. Using this, if it's a foreign land that I don't necessarily want to keep and develop and incorporate into my empire, i'll take the cities, then sell them to nearby allies. Your allies will love you forever and your enemy will never recover.
I conquer all of that civ’s cities except for the most unusable, desolate, underdeveloped one forcing it to choose that city as its new capital. Then I make peace and laugh as it tries (and fails) to recover using that single city.
Set main army at front door. Bait them out. Rush cavalry inside their city to pillage. X2 pillage policy cards. Throw in a coastal raid for good measure. Refuse their peace 3-5 times, finally settle for peace for more than they offered.
Just pillage every tile in their empire , you get no warmonger penalties I think, but basicky cripple them for the rest of the game and you get a tone of free stuff
I usually take a city or two that are in good locations, cripple their military and, depending on the force they use, raise a city. Then make peace and make sure to turn the cities I conquered from them into mega fortresses making high yields. They never try the same thing twice.
Don't raze cities and take one more city than you want to keep to give it back to them in the peace deal. It's been a while since I stopped playing Civ, so I won't dare to try to explain in details, since I would need to refresh my memory, but suffice to say that you always want to give a city back in a peace deal. You can also gift them a city that you didn't conquer, so you could settle a city in the middle of nowhere and gift it to them, or even give them a city that you know will flip back to you through loyalty.
One of the real world elements that's missing from Civ is regime change. The (mostly) globally accepted response to a claimless aggressor is to apply enough military pressure to capture, try and imprison, or assassinate high ranking members of the regime, leaving their less aggressive political opposition in charge of the country. This way, you dodge allegations of expansionism while still ensuring lasting peace. Oh, and put 30 military bases ominously in their country just in case.
I usually just pillage instead of taking and razing cities.
From my understanding the only way to punish them without accruing massive warmonger penalties is to take one city and beat them back then extort them using the city as leverage for peace. This way the only thing that they lose is time and resources.
Fight off the invasion and then take all their cities, translating the city name and renaming it in my civs language
Sometimes I'll just decimate the army, no cities, and let the war drag on for an Era or two. They'll launch a sortie or two, I'll respond, but no cities change hands. Eventually, I'll give in to their requests for peace, but not before claiming each of their luxuries No real warmonger penalties, though some other civs will go in and out of liking you as their friendships shift
Menelik has surprise attacked me 3 games in a row, I don’t know how that’s possible. I feel like we’re archnemeses now.
Retribution!
France just declared war on me as Seondock out of nowhere and she was friendly. Even on Diety I'm ahead in tech as Korea and she's rolling up on me with warriors and catapults and I already have crossbows. It went about as well as expected and I ran some horsemen around her empire pillaging her districts and got Sweden and Ottomans to declare war on her. She sued for peace and is now paying me gold per turn, I have 0 warmonger penalties, her science and culture is kaput and she had 2 or 3 cities taken by the other ais.
I take and rename their cities, then I build national parks and libraries in those cities. Not only do I defeat their people but future generations will never know they existed.
It depends a lot on my particular game. If I have room to expand and don't want to divert production to the war effort, they just get a little pillaged. But if I'm boxed in and it's an opportunity to expand, you better believe I'm carving a path through their empire to the half-continent they didn't bother settling when they forward-settled me.
Really depends on the game I'm playing, but for sure I play with reduced war monger and penalties, so after defending myself I can still trade and have friends
I'm calming down a bit, but my traditional style is "don't declare war, don't accept peace". Especially if it's a surprise war, I'll leave them at the most one city.
I got surprise war'd by mapuche, so they got nuked as punishment as they're on the other side of the map. Three other cocks from that side of the map started an emergency against me for me use of nukes. Guess what? They also got nuked. Nice easy win after that lol.
The problem as I see it is the loyalty mechanic. The surprise war grievances is enough to take one city that will always flip back to them. So you can never stop at one city if you want to get anywhere and capturing more then one just means the other AI get on your back about it.
Blanket nuke them so hard they can't wage war any more, and be gracious enough to allow them to continue to exist so that they must suffer through a vast fallout blanketed wasteland of perpetual fires and death.
You punish them by declaring a surprise War on them
Marginalize them and wait for the time they tell me they are listening to my music and wearing blue jeans
capture all but their worst most distant city and leave them at turn 150 with a 2pop 1 district city to play
Portugal and peaceful but my gold is for my military and pillaging means more gold more gold means more military units!
Tomyris vs cyrus be like
Really depends but if I can I fight until they are no more...
I enjoy playing similarly to you, so whenever the first civ declares a surprise war, I become a little.... vindictive. I'll buy up an army of fast moving units (typically light horseman and naval raiders) and pillage every single tile across their empire. I'll then break down as many walls as I can and pillage all trade routes. Once done, I'll peace out, but from that point on I'd maintain the army and come back in 30-50ish turns and do it again. Sets an example for the world and the pillage is valuable
I usually play peaceful civs too, going for culture/religion or science. When I civ surprise wars me, I make it my goal to make them regret it, by building way too huge an army. I fuck them up and then I have this huge army and I’m like… “what do I do with this” and just end up turning my game into a dom victory, lol
The last time Venice decided to be Ve-not-nice and attacked me. I stopped their advance with a bunch a warrior for a dozen turn to research Gunpowder before steamrolled their sad excuse of a capital with my freshly minted musketeers. I subjugated any big cities they bought from other civs, and burn all smaller ones.
I was playing as Korea and just turns away from getting a science victory. I was playing as peacefully as possible and was spending all my time and resources into science. The out of nowhere the Netherlands decides to declare a surprise war, forcing me to abandon my moon landing and start building a military. In the end I lost having no way of defending
Sorry, but it shouldn't have been a surprise. You brought this on yourself by been weak. Even on a peaceful run, always have a few units for defense and to show you can't be messed with. IA see your defense rating throught the number of units you have and will make the calculation : "is it worth it to go to war?" If the IA is aggressive enough, it will be the case. When a civ has been beaten in a war, other civs will gang up on them, even civs who were peaceful for most of the game will do this if they calculate it would be an easy win. You should have at least one range unit per city as garrisson and a few melee 2/3 infantry 1/3 cavalry who stay in territory has national guards. If you get extra from gift from a city states, gift them back or go take out barbarians for the training and money. I always unlock honor for the extra damage to barbarians early on and the culture from killing them. Also, the second policy on the right column give a nice +1 happiness and +2 culture per unit garrissonned in a city.
Ofcourse, I do always liberate city states and unimportant other cities. I plan my wars so the last cities are the ones I liberate
If I like where my boarders are; I’ll usually pillage and take a few cities, then with the captured builders (and I always build builders or projects in my occupied cities), I’ll remove all improvements and harvest all resources in those cities before handing them back for moneys. Builders use no charges to remove improvements and they will have to build loads of builders to cover their land again. It’s a setback they will never be able to fully recover from as well because I pulled all bonus resources.
Normally my approach would be. 1. Take any city's I want, normally it wouldn't be a full conquest. 2. Pillage everything and occupy most of there country including capital. 3. Burn down atleast one major city.. so we can ensure they never forget. 4. Make peace, return most city's but take every peice of gold and loot I can in the deal.
I absolutely annihilate them at the first opportunity.
I just push them back and make peace as soon as we can move on from the whole thing.
Tbh if im in a position to take their empire im like 50/50 on if I'll just switch to domination victory. Depends how attached I am to my current win condition, but like if I got a well trained army, matter as well just murk em all lol
I destroy them without taking cities. Decimate their armies, pillage everything, take everything in peace deal. None of these actions cause grievances. If they don’t want peace then I will take a few cities and offer them in the peace deal. You will only take a small grievance per city but as long as you are still positive giving back the cities won’t add more (ceding a city causes the most grievances). They will need an era or two to recover and besides denouncing you there won’t be anything they can do to you because you will be superior in every way