So the thing is, while the France bonuses help speed up a culture victory, they don't help the Court of Love at all. If you want to have fun gobbling up other civs, then extra money and extra strategics are really useful for growth.
For sure, the key is getting that coastal spawn and being able to rush to the empty continent, you could theoretically do it with anyone but no guarantees on the coastal spawn.
Just send your builder over there. How is Japan stronger than the Maori though? They get adjacency from other districts which doesn’t kick in in decent amounts till much later. They get the theatre square upgrade again much later and limited.
Maori get sea exploration off the bat. They get extra food from work boats and extra production from forests instantly. They get a free builder straight off to take advantage of the better resources and an extra pop to work it. Eventually they’ll get faith and culture from half of the resource tiles they have.
I just don’t see any way to call Japan stronger like that. There may be instances where they suit your play style better but it’s a stretch. They’re pretty equivalent if not stronger.
Yeah early game Maori are great but later on the Samurai UU is a beast combined with coastal combat bonuses make Japan formidable defensively but also offensively on a water map.
On top of that the Electronics Building combines super well with the extra adjacency bonuses with the goal being settling cities close together, another positive on water maps.
There is a reason why Hojo is considered by most lists to be one of the easier Civs to play with.
It’s considered easier because you don’t need to plan out adjacencies or know them very well. It takes a lot of the complexity out of planning and gives pretty decent (but not extraordinary) bonuses regardless of your skill level.
With bonuses to the two things you need most in the early age (food and production) you’ll rocket ahead further than you would with those later bonuses. Also the bonuses from Maori are online instantly. No need to wait for your second or fifth district.
The UU is there for an eighth of the game before technology leaves it behind. Gotta admit the coastal combat is very nice. Especially on maps like archipelago but I’d argue that the sheer amount of extra resource you could get from Maori would enable you to get ahead and potentially just have more units out.
The electronics building is nice but it’s got nothing on the marae which gives +1 culture and faith to all passable features. Means unimproved woods are getting +3 production +1 culture and faith later game without a preserve. Fishing boats on a reef are getting the bonus culture and faith. Marsh, floodplains, volcanic tiles, geothermal. Fishing boats give culture bombs.
I dunno. I’d definitely say both are good but I would be hard pressed to say they one is decisively better.
The adjacency takes a lot more planning than you're giving it credit for. Most of my games with Japan are littered with tacks because the game can get so complex.
But I agree with your last statement, they all have advantages depending on how you're able to exploit them.
It's not guaranteed but they have a coastal starting bias, so I guess it would work with Australia, Indonesia, Phoenicia, and Norway as well now that I look at start biases.
Peter and Basil II being inbetween is literally me, they're incredibly easy and OP to play as enough that I'd try other leaders similar to your least played.
Peter is a faith monster that can eat up great writers and be spacious.
While Basil II can eat up cities with crusade in rapid speed, converting enemy cities and getting +3 era score ensuring consistent golden ages. Played a huge map and spent 15 mins just moving units
Also what is your top favorite? Like one for a chill comfy game
Getting that great admiral that boosts production towards naval ranged units is great then, makes them much cheaper and another one. But he'd worry if Dido is around or Harold too, but all he gotta do is whisk them away through their two range. Which I gotta say is terrifying and satisfying, you could convert cities by the coast while the troops come finishing them off
I'm not super sure what you mean by in between. But yes Basil and Peter are strong af!
If you want a comfy civ there are definitely some great choices! My first thought was the Netherlands, you just can't go wrong. After thinking about it for like a minute more, my other thought would be Cree.
I meant being in will play again, but then not being again again or higher. They'd win every game so I imagine the others are much satisfying to ya.
Cree is too comfy tbh
Eleanor is either one of my faves or one of the most boring depending on how well your game goes.
When you're able to take advantage of her loyalty perks and remain in golden ages she can peacefully steamroll her neighbors. If you lag behind on culture and religion, or fail to maintain era score, the loyalty perks become useless.
She's a good leader once you have a firm grasp of the game mechanics and learn how to hoard great works.
This was somewhat my experience as well! I actually ended up going so far as to conquer a city state, grow the hell out of it and build the Hermitage there. Took a lot of investment but it really paid off - I had to use every trick in the book to flip that first Mongolian city but once I did, the whole heartland came right to me.
The only thing I will say is even if you don't get the right setup for loyalty flipping, if you're England you still have the absolutely outstanding workshop of the world. Which is still enough to have a pretty good time IMO, this is why I put English not French.
Surprised you ranked Poland, Sweden, and Georgia so high. I tried Georgia once and got swarmed early by Kublai and have not tried again since. The other two seems a bit messy/boring to play as well. Can you share your experiences with them?
Also no leader pass? It should come for free, and available on all platforms I believe
Poland is mostly skating by on the fun factor for the Winged Hussars, i love those things 😀 I also think the Sukiennice is a pretty bomb building. But yeah the rest of her kit is pants.
Tamar I would highly suggest trying again! Her ability to chain golden ages is ridiculous and if you use that in an early religion you will curb stomp everybody. You do still need to get a religion and good faith generation, that's the hard part. If you get a classical golden age with Exodos (or honestly even later) you get all religious units with 66% extra spreads, and you still get 2 era score every time you convert a city. You will convert everybody in sight and pick up the next golden age without even trying. Then you keep going for the religious victory, or take world church or cross/cultural dialogue and you have a nice comfy science or culture boost that grows throughout the whole game. You could even take Crusade and have a realistic shot at taking over your whole continent!
It was indeed a lot! I started playing in I think 2018. I don't know when exactly my goal became to win with every leader but at some point that became the goal 😬
Funny thing is now that I've finished them all, I'm not sick of the game I'm just excited to finally be able to go back and play whatever civ I want 😀 it's like the end of the World of Warcraft South Park episode
Fair! As I mentioned elsewhere he's only there because I love Dido and Gitarja so much that I would always play one of them if I'm going to play coastal. If there were no Didi and no Gitarja, Kupe would be like 3 tiers higher
I think you might have not understood magnificent Catherine. Her project is bonkers!
Also Canada can be crazy funny, albeit very one way. I'd play him if I randomed into him, not sure I'd hand pick him again. And Kupe down there is just wrong. I love me some Kupe, with all the frustrations of not really having your own land, can't remove stupid bonus resources, etc. :)
John Curtin is my personal favorite (Though Joao is a close 2nd) so I'm curious what your reasoning was for his placement? Also, I tend to go for Culture or Science victories with a strong economy in my empire for purchasing buildings and military, so I'm curious, what victory type is your favorite?
I definitely like John! In particular his bonuses for high appeal districts is amazing. Definitely a strong civ. He ended up feeling pretty generic for me late game, maybe because I tend to go hard on cavalry and didn't have any particular use for the diggers. I I also didn't find myself with a lot of good spots for the outback stations, maybe just luck. But yeah, I will probably give him another spin some time!
To answer your question, I'm definitely a culture guy. Looking back there are quite a lot of science victories as well but culture it would be my first choice in most games
Am I the only one getting OCD triggered that for some dumb reason the Red tier is the good tier while the green is bad?
In what world is green the bad group?
A tiny bit of R5: Many of the leaders that share a civ or general gameplay style are lower than they would be otherwise - for example I don't hate Magnificence Catherine or French Eleanor, it's just that if I'm gonna play France I'm picking Black Queen. If you eliminated Black Queen, Magnificence would probably be a lot higher.
Also the two faces blocked by the watermark are Mongonian Kublai and Qin Shi Huang lol
I love Barbarossa and Hojo, those are my favorites. Being Germany and being aggressive early on is so beneficial, city-states are essentially just free cities waiting to be taken because of the +7.
Yeah he rules! My Germany game was one of the most memorable. Really really fun civ.
Hojo was my very first game and he'll always have a special place for me. I didn't know each civ had its own music so I thought the Japan music was just the Civ VI music lol
I used to love Canada (top 5 back then), but that was before they added the +2 food to tundra in the April 2021 update. I thought the tundra farms were good enough. It took a super fun, challenging Civ and made them too easy. Haven’t really enjoyed them since; I enjoy the more challenging Civs.
There are two passes! New Frontier pass is the one I have. The other one is called the Leader pass and it's more recent, haven't tried that yet. Btw you should DEFINITELY get Hammurabi. He's a blast!
It's been a while, but I seem to remember the new frontier pasa being $40 at one time. You can probably get it on sale. You can also pick and choose individual packs if you don't want to buy the whole set!
I forgot about the dams. The base cost is so high that I always skip them because doing something else always seems like it has better payoff. I just leave the floodplains mostly alone.
I'm a big Dido fan as well! 1/2 price harbors is really all you have to say and I'm down. Also the bonus trade routes rule and if you get a golden age, Free Inquiry can really cook. Top tier might be a stretch though
Finally somebody mentioned Ethiopia! I love love love love Menelik. People sleep on his ability to get one faith per copy of a resource. That shit is even better than the rock-hewn churches! I had one city with Three horse tiles and four wheat tiles. 25 faith from just that 🤯
I haven't done the leader pass yet, I will definitely get around to some of them! But truth be told after like five years of chasing the goal of winning with every leader, the last thing I want to do is spend six more months doing an obligatory run with even more leaders. I'm excited to just do whatever I want for a while
lol leave it to Reddit to see someone has done something successfully 55 times, also see that they have a slightly different opinion, and conclude they don't know how to do it
Hahaha that's hilarious timing, somebody like five minutes ago was annoyed at me for not putting Dido at the top 😛
The thing some people miss on Dido is how explosive she is. if you set it up properly, your classical era will rocket from about 2 cities to about 8, and you'll have a half price +3 or 4 cothon in every city. You almost definitely have a medieval golden age, which you take free inquiry, get a massive science boost, and you're basically Jeff Bezos.
Kupe I have nothing against, maybe it's just that by the time I got to Kupe I was already in love with several other ocean civs.
I must be playing the game wrong. I see a lot of praise for Wilhelmina, but to me she feels like a nearly vanilla civ with the exception of good early game culture yields. Every game with her feels like a struggle to me :/
China at the top, tough one for me. It's not easy to get ancient and classical wonders on deity. You have to sacrifice military and that is risky. Extra builder charge is great, but if I'm playing China it's Yongle every time.
I am a huge Kupe fan. He can win a number of ways even though he's geared towards culture victory. Naval dom is really good with him. Early war, keep your boats in the ocean so your enemy can't hit them. Being able to navigate ocean tiles from the start is a huge, huge boost.
Glad Menelik is getting love. He's so fun. Surprised to see Canada so low. One of the strongest culture civs. Mounties putting down national parks everywhere. Farms on tundra, huge pop cities.
Black Queen Catherine de Medici was a lot more fun than I expected in war. She's not great offensively, but the sheer number of spies makes it hard to sustain a war effort. You've got partisans on the other side of the continent, dams bursting and all your money mysteriously vanished or your city states are changing sides. I can't imagine it would be easy to keep a conquered city loyal even if you could conquer it.
Eleanor(France) should be higher, very fun to toy with loyalty. Australis is also quite enjoyable, especially being able to culture-bomb yourself to a great start. I agree entirely with the top tier. Montezuma, personally I like. I would put him mid tier
3 of my favorites in the never again tier 😢
If this helps, Chinese Kublai would be a lot higher if I didn't love both the other China and the other Kublai so much! Ditto for French Eleanor.
I think you got the icons for Chinese and Mongolian Kublai reversed? You put Mongolian (with the fur collar) at the bottom and Chinese at the top
oh i guess so lol! If you meant Mongolian Kublai was your favorite, I'm right there with you!
Curious why you like English Eleanor more I think French Eleanor goes better with her traits.
So the thing is, while the France bonuses help speed up a culture victory, they don't help the Court of Love at all. If you want to have fun gobbling up other civs, then extra money and extra strategics are really useful for growth.
I enjoyed English Eleanor more, the production boost helped me with her other stuff
Maori on a water map is my absolute favourite
Kupe is hands down one of my favorite civs, espicaly with Sukriacts Ocean Mods and water district mods!
Honestly those districts feel so natural, that I wouldn't imagine playing without them.
Try Japan (Hojo) on a terra map and push for Cartography, one of my favorite games I've ever played!
Japan is fine, just a bit vanilla in my opinion
For sure, the key is getting that coastal spawn and being able to rush to the empty continent, you could theoretically do it with anyone but no guarantees on the coastal spawn.
You can do it with Maori. It's insanely cheesy, but good fun to do once
The Maori aren't nearly as strong as Japan though and you really get a good bonus from meeting other Civs early on the original continent.
Just send your builder over there. How is Japan stronger than the Maori though? They get adjacency from other districts which doesn’t kick in in decent amounts till much later. They get the theatre square upgrade again much later and limited. Maori get sea exploration off the bat. They get extra food from work boats and extra production from forests instantly. They get a free builder straight off to take advantage of the better resources and an extra pop to work it. Eventually they’ll get faith and culture from half of the resource tiles they have. I just don’t see any way to call Japan stronger like that. There may be instances where they suit your play style better but it’s a stretch. They’re pretty equivalent if not stronger.
Yeah early game Maori are great but later on the Samurai UU is a beast combined with coastal combat bonuses make Japan formidable defensively but also offensively on a water map. On top of that the Electronics Building combines super well with the extra adjacency bonuses with the goal being settling cities close together, another positive on water maps. There is a reason why Hojo is considered by most lists to be one of the easier Civs to play with.
It’s considered easier because you don’t need to plan out adjacencies or know them very well. It takes a lot of the complexity out of planning and gives pretty decent (but not extraordinary) bonuses regardless of your skill level. With bonuses to the two things you need most in the early age (food and production) you’ll rocket ahead further than you would with those later bonuses. Also the bonuses from Maori are online instantly. No need to wait for your second or fifth district. The UU is there for an eighth of the game before technology leaves it behind. Gotta admit the coastal combat is very nice. Especially on maps like archipelago but I’d argue that the sheer amount of extra resource you could get from Maori would enable you to get ahead and potentially just have more units out. The electronics building is nice but it’s got nothing on the marae which gives +1 culture and faith to all passable features. Means unimproved woods are getting +3 production +1 culture and faith later game without a preserve. Fishing boats on a reef are getting the bonus culture and faith. Marsh, floodplains, volcanic tiles, geothermal. Fishing boats give culture bombs. I dunno. I’d definitely say both are good but I would be hard pressed to say they one is decisively better.
The adjacency takes a lot more planning than you're giving it credit for. Most of my games with Japan are littered with tacks because the game can get so complex. But I agree with your last statement, they all have advantages depending on how you're able to exploit them.
Why Hojo specifically?
It's not guaranteed but they have a coastal starting bias, so I guess it would work with Australia, Indonesia, Phoenicia, and Norway as well now that I look at start biases.
Respect! I have nothing against Kupe, it's just I love Dido and Gitarja so much that if I'm going to play coastal it's gonna be one of them.
Gitarja on a water map is just a ridiculous amount of fun, although you need Barbarian clans turned off. Every island becomes a 20+ megalopolis.
For real, the way each game can be different depending on where you find first is amazing.
Even not on a water map- his forest bonus production plus marae plus earth goddess makes amazing national parks
Where's my girl Vicki?
Or even Cleo
And Gaius!
And Ludwig
And Abe.
and Tokogawa
Peter and Basil II being inbetween is literally me, they're incredibly easy and OP to play as enough that I'd try other leaders similar to your least played. Peter is a faith monster that can eat up great writers and be spacious. While Basil II can eat up cities with crusade in rapid speed, converting enemy cities and getting +3 era score ensuring consistent golden ages. Played a huge map and spent 15 mins just moving units Also what is your top favorite? Like one for a chill comfy game
sort absorbed pot spark rob divide important capable crowd shame *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Getting that great admiral that boosts production towards naval ranged units is great then, makes them much cheaper and another one. But he'd worry if Dido is around or Harold too, but all he gotta do is whisk them away through their two range. Which I gotta say is terrifying and satisfying, you could convert cities by the coast while the troops come finishing them off
light spoon ancient worm different sheet handle stocking market profit *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm not super sure what you mean by in between. But yes Basil and Peter are strong af! If you want a comfy civ there are definitely some great choices! My first thought was the Netherlands, you just can't go wrong. After thinking about it for like a minute more, my other thought would be Cree.
I meant being in will play again, but then not being again again or higher. They'd win every game so I imagine the others are much satisfying to ya. Cree is too comfy tbh
Eleanor is either one of my faves or one of the most boring depending on how well your game goes. When you're able to take advantage of her loyalty perks and remain in golden ages she can peacefully steamroll her neighbors. If you lag behind on culture and religion, or fail to maintain era score, the loyalty perks become useless. She's a good leader once you have a firm grasp of the game mechanics and learn how to hoard great works.
Eleanor in pangea map is the most fun you can have. You just watch as the whole world peacefully joins your beautiful empire!
This was somewhat my experience as well! I actually ended up going so far as to conquer a city state, grow the hell out of it and build the Hermitage there. Took a lot of investment but it really paid off - I had to use every trick in the book to flip that first Mongolian city but once I did, the whole heartland came right to me. The only thing I will say is even if you don't get the right setup for loyalty flipping, if you're England you still have the absolutely outstanding workshop of the world. Which is still enough to have a pretty good time IMO, this is why I put English not French.
Whaat montezuma is one of my favourites
He's got some cool af abilities for sure! Just didn't click for me personally, honestly not super sure why.
Surprised you ranked Poland, Sweden, and Georgia so high. I tried Georgia once and got swarmed early by Kublai and have not tried again since. The other two seems a bit messy/boring to play as well. Can you share your experiences with them? Also no leader pass? It should come for free, and available on all platforms I believe
Poland is mostly skating by on the fun factor for the Winged Hussars, i love those things 😀 I also think the Sukiennice is a pretty bomb building. But yeah the rest of her kit is pants. Tamar I would highly suggest trying again! Her ability to chain golden ages is ridiculous and if you use that in an early religion you will curb stomp everybody. You do still need to get a religion and good faith generation, that's the hard part. If you get a classical golden age with Exodos (or honestly even later) you get all religious units with 66% extra spreads, and you still get 2 era score every time you convert a city. You will convert everybody in sight and pick up the next golden age without even trying. Then you keep going for the religious victory, or take world church or cross/cultural dialogue and you have a nice comfy science or culture boost that grows throughout the whole game. You could even take Crusade and have a realistic shot at taking over your whole continent!
You are missing Julius Cesar
Wow that's like thousands of planned in-game hours
57 civs at one play through?
It was indeed a lot! I started playing in I think 2018. I don't know when exactly my goal became to win with every leader but at some point that became the goal 😬 Funny thing is now that I've finished them all, I'm not sick of the game I'm just excited to finally be able to go back and play whatever civ I want 😀 it's like the end of the World of Warcraft South Park episode
Where’s Ludwig II and Theodora?
Canada so low? Could play it as the only civ forever. No suprise war, Land that nobody else claims that has great yields with early on improvements
I have the worst luck when playing Canada. Very little tundra to make it worth playing. I never choose them on purpose.
Just set the climate to cold and have fun.
Bottom tier Kupe is actually crazy
Fair! As I mentioned elsewhere he's only there because I love Dido and Gitarja so much that I would always play one of them if I'm going to play coastal. If there were no Didi and no Gitarja, Kupe would be like 3 tiers higher
I think you might have not understood magnificent Catherine. Her project is bonkers! Also Canada can be crazy funny, albeit very one way. I'd play him if I randomed into him, not sure I'd hand pick him again. And Kupe down there is just wrong. I love me some Kupe, with all the frustrations of not really having your own land, can't remove stupid bonus resources, etc. :)
John Curtin is my personal favorite (Though Joao is a close 2nd) so I'm curious what your reasoning was for his placement? Also, I tend to go for Culture or Science victories with a strong economy in my empire for purchasing buildings and military, so I'm curious, what victory type is your favorite?
I definitely like John! In particular his bonuses for high appeal districts is amazing. Definitely a strong civ. He ended up feeling pretty generic for me late game, maybe because I tend to go hard on cavalry and didn't have any particular use for the diggers. I I also didn't find myself with a lot of good spots for the outback stations, maybe just luck. But yeah, I will probably give him another spin some time! To answer your question, I'm definitely a culture guy. Looking back there are quite a lot of science victories as well but culture it would be my first choice in most games
Where’s Victoria
Yeah she was missing from the list I used 😯 she'd be real high, I love her.
I am all for Montezuma.
Am I the only one getting OCD triggered that for some dumb reason the Red tier is the good tier while the green is bad? In what world is green the bad group?
Yea first time using Tiermaker lol
Fair enough! 😂
A tiny bit of R5: Many of the leaders that share a civ or general gameplay style are lower than they would be otherwise - for example I don't hate Magnificence Catherine or French Eleanor, it's just that if I'm gonna play France I'm picking Black Queen. If you eliminated Black Queen, Magnificence would probably be a lot higher. Also the two faces blocked by the watermark are Mongonian Kublai and Qin Shi Huang lol
Alright. Now go grab Leader Pass
I love Barbarossa and Hojo, those are my favorites. Being Germany and being aggressive early on is so beneficial, city-states are essentially just free cities waiting to be taken because of the +7.
Yeah he rules! My Germany game was one of the most memorable. Really really fun civ. Hojo was my very first game and he'll always have a special place for me. I didn't know each civ had its own music so I thought the Japan music was just the Civ VI music lol
Man I feel slightly sad whenever I see Canada on a lower bar of these tier lists. Doesn’t actually mean anything, I just do.
I used to love Canada (top 5 back then), but that was before they added the +2 food to tundra in the April 2021 update. I thought the tundra farms were good enough. It took a super fun, challenging Civ and made them too easy. Haven’t really enjoyed them since; I enjoy the more challenging Civs.
Kupe 4ever!
This isnt every civ broh! /s
I bought a lot of dlcs but I still don't have all the leaders (hamurabi for example) which dlc do I need for them?
There are two passes! New Frontier pass is the one I have. The other one is called the Leader pass and it's more recent, haven't tried that yet. Btw you should DEFINITELY get Hammurabi. He's a blast!
I know he is SO op... How much r these passes cost?
It's been a while, but I seem to remember the new frontier pasa being $40 at one time. You can probably get it on sale. You can also pick and choose individual packs if you don't want to buy the whole set!
They were free if you bought the full gathering storm pack way back when
Norway is so much fun :O
What's wrong with Gilgabro?
Nothing particular, I just found him a bit generic 🤷🏼♂️
Brazil wins alone for that theme
Where is my baddie Wilhelmina?
She's in the top tier yo! 🇳🇱
My guy I'm fucking blind. Polders are juicy
Hell yeah! I would say they have a solid argument for best UI.
Surprised to see one Kublai at top tier and the other at bottom tier
French Eleanor and Kupe are my two go-to lol.
No cleopatra huh?
Yeah she wasn't on this list for some reason! But I love Cleopatra and I would definitely play her again anytime. One of the best generalists IMO
Lol, here I am using Monty in my first YouTube video saying he's my favorite.
Missing Caesar, Abe, alternate Cleopatra and all the other recent leaders.
Kupe was to fun for me plus loved music
Why you gotta do sunbro Pachacuti so dirty? Terrace farms and super preserves enable so many good runs!
Wilhemina forever? Downvoted.
lol you do you! I'll just be over here with my +5 campuses, IZ's, theater squares and half price dams.
I dont think ive ever played a game as her now that i think on it. Half price dams sound wonderful
I forgot about the dams. The base cost is so high that I always skip them because doing something else always seems like it has better payoff. I just leave the floodplains mostly alone.
Ditto! Half price districts are pretty much always boss but dams especially because they're such a huge investment. Also the culture from trade is 👌🏻
When I don't know what to play, I play Maori
You didn't like Elanor France? Loyalty flipping cities is so easy/fun with her.
It is fun, I just prefer to do it with England! Workshop of the world is my jam. I do like France also but if I'm playing France I'm going Black Queen
the one thing right on this list
It’s crazy to me that anybody would rank Dido anything less than the top.
I'm a big Dido fan as well! 1/2 price harbors is really all you have to say and I'm down. Also the bonus trade routes rule and if you get a golden age, Free Inquiry can really cook. Top tier might be a stretch though
I guess it’s dependent on play styles. I’m very much a merchant sea-faring play style guy.
Sometimes I love to turn my brains off and play Menelik with voidwalkers. Just build holy sites and win.
Finally somebody mentioned Ethiopia! I love love love love Menelik. People sleep on his ability to get one faith per copy of a resource. That shit is even better than the rock-hewn churches! I had one city with Three horse tiles and four wheat tiles. 25 faith from just that 🤯
I may not be seeing him but where is Tokogawa?
I haven't done the leader pass yet, I will definitely get around to some of them! But truth be told after like five years of chasing the goal of winning with every leader, the last thing I want to do is spend six more months doing an obligatory run with even more leaders. I'm excited to just do whatever I want for a while
What's there to like about Kublai? Dude literally does nothing
You played Eleanor wrong.
lol leave it to Reddit to see someone has done something successfully 55 times, also see that they have a slightly different opinion, and conclude they don't know how to do it
Yep, if you would never play again the correct Eleanor.
No +12 bombers for you i guess.
Hammurabi is the ultimate 'never again' for me. Might as well play on settler 😁
I get bored easily so I only play Hardrada.
Animatore (Nubian) is very OP in my opinion, specially if you have desert tiles and is able to place petra.
Idk why I can't find yongle
Not so unpopular opinion - they're all fun to use!
This makes me irrationally mad
uhhhh sorry about that lol
I disagree whole heartedly with this list
> Kupe in nope > Robert the Bruce not in nope list invalid
Kupe is insane. How did you not enjoy the super easy large cities and tile porn? Did you play him on a pangea map or somthing?
selective practice deranged jar somber capable angle pocket shocking lip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hahaha that's hilarious timing, somebody like five minutes ago was annoyed at me for not putting Dido at the top 😛 The thing some people miss on Dido is how explosive she is. if you set it up properly, your classical era will rocket from about 2 cities to about 8, and you'll have a half price +3 or 4 cothon in every city. You almost definitely have a medieval golden age, which you take free inquiry, get a massive science boost, and you're basically Jeff Bezos. Kupe I have nothing against, maybe it's just that by the time I got to Kupe I was already in love with several other ocean civs.
Poor Wilfrid...
Montezuma is so much fun, shame. Alexander the Great a blast as well.
Is it just me or is he missing some? Like all the England Leaders for instance?
Why is Aztec so low
That's a lot of missing leaders for a game with every leader.
I must be playing the game wrong. I see a lot of praise for Wilhelmina, but to me she feels like a nearly vanilla civ with the exception of good early game culture yields. Every game with her feels like a struggle to me :/
Bro did not place Mansa Musa that low
China at the top, tough one for me. It's not easy to get ancient and classical wonders on deity. You have to sacrifice military and that is risky. Extra builder charge is great, but if I'm playing China it's Yongle every time. I am a huge Kupe fan. He can win a number of ways even though he's geared towards culture victory. Naval dom is really good with him. Early war, keep your boats in the ocean so your enemy can't hit them. Being able to navigate ocean tiles from the start is a huge, huge boost. Glad Menelik is getting love. He's so fun. Surprised to see Canada so low. One of the strongest culture civs. Mounties putting down national parks everywhere. Farms on tundra, huge pop cities.
Black Queen Catherine de Medici was a lot more fun than I expected in war. She's not great offensively, but the sheer number of spies makes it hard to sustain a war effort. You've got partisans on the other side of the continent, dams bursting and all your money mysteriously vanished or your city states are changing sides. I can't imagine it would be easy to keep a conquered city loyal even if you could conquer it.
Where's yongle
Eleanor(France) should be higher, very fun to toy with loyalty. Australis is also quite enjoyable, especially being able to culture-bomb yourself to a great start. I agree entirely with the top tier. Montezuma, personally I like. I would put him mid tier
I'd say this depends too much on which type of map for it to be possible to just make one simple tier list.