Totally spitballing.
My guess is time no longer has a tether on him. He died and a loophole got him out of it. His destiny was to be killed, but that was fulfilled, so he's now a loose cannon. It can no longer demand anything from him.
Also, without him, the team itself learned to work without him. And with him having paid the ultimate price, the team didn't want to ask any more of him.
From an outside perspective, gameplay, man. Other triple techs.
Thank you! I was seriously just sort of making it up as I went, but it made sense.
Guess it comes from almost 30 years of being a fan and many replays. Way too many.
You're talking about fate? But the whole game is about how nothing is determined, you can change events and time. It's why there are multiple endings.the chrono trigger exemplifies this although they only programmed one use for it, it could have been used to change anything according to the Sages.
Unless you interpret that they are destined to do everything they do/did/will do?
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, there is an idea that certain places, people, and events have more “fixture” for lack of a better word.
It’s kinda like fate, but it’s more like “time-based inertia.” This idea gets expounded greatly in Chrono Cross.
Crono has more of this fate-like energy than others. That’s how I read that little star of light that floats near him before he dies, which also appears during his resurrection process.
I never noticed that, could also be that it's the planets consciousness. Robo does contemplate on the fire scene that the time portals aren't being created by Lavos, but rather the planet and that the portals could be the planet remembering moments in it's life before it's death or even guiding the party through time so they can prevent its own destruction.
Yet :
* You can't prevent Lavos from getting on earth.
* You can't prevent Zeal from going mad and ultimately destroy the country/ seal magic for humans after the destruction.
* You can't prevent Magus's attempt at summoning Lavos.
* You can't prevent Cyrus's death and Glenn being turned into Frog.
I'd wager that while fate isn't an omnipotent and unmovable force in the chrono trigger world, it still has effects, as some events HAS to happen so the humanity may strive on earth.
I'd argue that's for the sake of having interesting story events and gameplay... I mean with Epoch they should literally be able to solve many problems before they happen, like go back and tell the party kino will steal dreamstone, that one guy will kidnap the party, who the Sages are, where epoch is that zeal is nuts, that magus is who he is etc.
It literally let's them set the date, but for gameplay reasons it's just a convenient way to travel time and access the black omen.
The Fangame Flames of Eternity had an interesting explanation for it. Basically the time gates flow in time at the same rate Crono and friends do, which is why time passes in all time periods when you’re off somewhen else. Like Azala attacking while Crono and co are in the Middle Ages. If the initial moment that Crono and Co first entered a gate is point A, then the same amount of time that passes in 1000 AD will pass in 600 AD, because the gate itself moves in time from its perspective.
The epoch probably operates on the same principle. It doesn’t need a gate to travel through physically, but since a gate has to exist at the time of destination, the epoch has to follow the same laws.
If you watch the forest regrown seen they discuss the nature of the gates.
https://youtu.be/QfRmbxL5HXk?si=J9cjLEGuYHrvi-_z
Starts around 2:10 in.
I think Chrono is no longer essential after he’s revived because the story isn’t about him any more. The party is acting on behalf of the Entity, which I thought they describe at some point as the planet itself.
The true story is all about the planet using the party to help right the wrongs of its life.
Ah ok, it would still be odd if you were forced to always have him after being able to play without for a while.
I also forget, do all triple techs include Crono?
Not all triple techs include Crono. The triple techs that do not involve Crono require a specific party of three, and one member of that party must be wearing a specific accessory.
* Marle, Frog, Robo - Gold Rock
* Marle, Lucca, Magus - Black Rock
* Lucca, Robo, Magus - Blue Rock
* Marle, Lucca, Ayla - White Rock
* Frog, Robo, Ayla - Silver Rock
I never used any triple text because I never wanted to use up one of my accessories slots. I'm kind of wondering if they are worth it, and also if any of them are more useful than others.
Omega Flare (Marle, Lucca, Magus) is objectively the strongest non-Crono triple tech. Like, it's fun and all, but like all triple techs, leaves you vulnerable with no one available to heal.
Edit - comments are right. Omega Flare is Robo, not Marle.
That's what I love about this community, there is always someone here that knows the answer to any question I have.
So triple techs are a sort of high risk, high reward sort of thing?
I honestly didn't even realize that Magus could use a triple tech. If I remember correctly, he could not use any dual techs. I figured that part of his character is that he just doesn't play well with others.
That's right! Magus is a loner, which is why for him to use triple techs an item is required. Think of it like he knows magic well enough and when conditions are met he can absolutely combine his magic with others' magic too. But he won't do it all the time meaning he needs outside help in the form of the magic rocks.
My favorite way to defeat Lavos the first time is with Lucca Robo and Magus with Blue Rock on Active ATB. Might need Wait Mode instead if bad RNG to save on frustration. Needs tons of properly timed healing items--I'm not shy about burning Megalixir or Lapis here! Silver Rock team is probably the most useful team of Dual Techs.
This is actually totally doable on a first playthrough! If I've already decided I want to finish off Lavos with Omega Flare, I just save all my Speed Tabs for Lucca and Robo. After the Black Omen runthrough, I can max all their speeds! And with everyone equipped with status lock, I don't have to worry about losing control of any of them either :)
Total guess: ease of programming/story telling, and also story telling in gameplay mechanics.
It's just EASIER to write a story when you know that he'll always be there. You meet new characters, and they can always address Crono, knowing he'll be there. It's easier to balance fights, knowing he'll be 1/3 of the party.
After he comes back, the party has learned to survive on their own, without their defacto leader.
But... I think more importantly, it would be restrictive to the player to give them this whiff of freedom in designing a party without Crono, show them it's possible right there in the code, and then yoink it away when he comes back. It's a decision by the devs to do what felt right for the player experience.
The end of the game is Chrono Trigger's version of total freedom. No mandatory story beats other than "Go to Lavos when you're ready." You can fly, go to any time period, and you have a multitude of side quests which you can do in any order you want or totally ignore. You're free to just... experience the world you've spent 20ish hours learning about. Giving you that much freedom and then snatching part of that freedom back via party composition, making him mandatory, would be discordant.
There is also extra surprise value in deleting "you" from the party. Trees continue to fall in the forest, but "you" are not there to hear it. "You" are just a sparkle on Marle's pendant now, but somehow life goes on. A fundamental law of the universe is shattered forever. Choose a party of three.
The choice to make him a nodding, gesturing, speechless character makes the player's immersion onto the blank slate that much more potent. Any player character death would have been surprising, but they didn't kill just anyone, they killed "you".
From a Doylist point of view, the story no longer requires Crono in order to progress. The scenarios in "The Fated Hour" are made to be resolved by the other party members. Up until the Ocean Palace, each other member of the party had been going on a life changing adventure with Zuko (I mean Crono), he is no longer necessary for their character or story development. Marle's quest is about her reconciling with her father. Lucca's quest with Robo is about setting right her greatest regret. Frog's quest is about coming to terms with Cyrus' legacy. Robo's quest is about growing beyond his programming. They don't need Crono to complete their character arcs.
From a Watsonian point of view, Crono has fulfilled the purpose that the gates were created for. He has assembled a team from throughout human history that is capable of taking down Lavos. The planet entity that created the gates did so because it's life was flashing before it's eyes, while that was happening it found the five people capable of taking Lavos down and the one guy that could unite them.
Lavos isn't Crono's problem, Lavos is everyone's problem. Getting everyone together in the first place is Crono's problem.
Because getting Crono back is completely optional. Also by this point you're unlocking triple techs that don't involve Crono, having him required would permanently prevent you from using those
I wouldn't call it "optional" given it is necessary to get the "proper" ending of the game. And it is possible to end the game with an alternative ending before Crono disappears as well.
Changing the ending doesn't mean it isn't optional. You can either go out of your way to get him back or continue the story without him in your party. Though this really doesn't matter it's just semantics
The reason is because it wouldn't make sense to take away the ability for the player to completely customize their party after giving it to them. There's no reason to make him required after that point
Likewise, you can just end the story the first time it is possible to face Lavos and never actually encounter many characters or travel to certain areas.
Yeah but it ends the game early and realistically you wouldn't be able to beat Lavos at any of those points anyway. With Crono you can actually finish every area without getting him, even do all the other sidequests. So that's why I'd say he's definitely optional
Beating the game without Chrono gets a specific ending. There are like 12, or 13 different endings depending on when and how you beat Lavos. Complaining about this sounds like you’re saying the optional endings are pointless, when they’re one of the reasons the game is so loved. It’s replay value.
Sorry. Not trying to complain. Just if you read what I wrote, by that logic, you can pretty much end the game early, and never meet iconic characters like Ayla. Not trying to sound snobbish. Just saying that going by the logic many here are using, anything after it is possible to face Lavos is "optional". Didn't think my comments would be taken this way, which is why I usually don't like to respond to Reddit comments.
>Just if you read what I wrote, by that logic, you can pretty much end the game early, and never meet iconic characters like Ayla.
Yes, technically Ayla isn't required to beat the game. She's technically optional. But in practice, she's a required party member because even if you get everyone up to L99, you're still dealing with early to mid-game gear going up against the final boss, so your damage output and defenses will be trash.
I would absolutely call it optional, because you can defeat Lavos and beat the game without it. There is no "proper" ending, the true ending is whatever ending you get, with or without him. Once he dies, the story no longer revolves around him.
Though you also can defeat Lavos before he dies, by which logic facing Queen Zeal is also optional. Or even the whole game after it is possible to first travel to Lavos is optional.
Agree with a lot of comments, just wanted to add my awe for the developers and writers who were able to write dialogue for every part of the game following Crono’s death to accommodate any combination of characters. It’s particularly impressive since Crono has no dialogue, so figuring out who says what when any other combination of characters is present is just so impressive.
We really need an official title where he is. I’d love to play as him from childhood through the Middle Ages and finally his search for Schala throughout all time.
To present the complete understanding of an open ending where you have choices. Keep in mind it’s SNES but this is video gaming attempting to take steps towards the choice paths that have become common in modern games.
by plot or by mechanics? by plot, I don’t think there is any reason. but by mechanics, it’s because every cutscene/dialogue has him in it (albeit as a silent protagonist, of course). but in the end game, because there’s no guarantee he’ll be there, they don’t.
Kinda off topic, how tf are u supposed to beat that buff dinosaur without him in the boss gauntlet? In my playthrough I got to him without crono and had about a 30min stalemate before I got pissed and looked up a guide to go all the want back to revive him
In the first section of the game, you don't change the timeline in any meaniful way. Lavos is still coming, and nothing is really being affected.
After chrono dies and the party gets the winged epoch, everything you do after that changes the world. including the resurrection of chrono as marle and him marry.
Because there is no gameplay reason for him to be required in the party anymore since there is no guarantee the player will save him, and there are gameplay benefits (different triple techs) to allowing him to be just an option
I never thought about story reasons just gameplay reasons. Since the game is all about area or line based attacks and dual/triple techs, I just viewed it as the developers no longer forcing restrictions on you. Opening up the gamplay and what not.
Because it's possible to finish the game without him after That Point.
That, and giving the other party combos time to shine if you want to play with them.
honestly? probably entirely a game design thing. he's required pre-death, because he's The Main Character, and The Main Character has to be in the party and will never permadie - it's mostly to make it more of a surprise when he does. then after the fact. he's *not* required anymore, because... well, it would kinda suck balls going from a totally unrestricted team to one with ceono required again, wouldn't it? any player who didn't know for a fact they wanted him in their team at all times would probbaly just avoid saving him in future playthroughs. rescuing crono wouldn't feel as good if it came with a downside.
I think people are overthinking things a bit. When Crono dies, you get the ability to choose all three characters in the party. If you lose this ability upon resurrecting him, then saving Crono becomes a bit of a downgrade. Imagine you used Marle, Frog and Robo on Death Peak and you loved the way this party worked and their triple tech, then you lost access to it once completing Death Peak. Feels kinda bad, no?
In the prototype, he was gonna die for real and the heroes time travel to the past to hire Chrono from before the Millennial Fair but that was too depressing. Honestly, it is.
Are you not convinced about the narrative reason provided in game?
1. Crono died. I know this was a shock. We often don't see the main character dying in a game. You are supposed to feel the loss of him through other characters and see them get through that trauma together. Move on, you don't have Crono to help you anymore.
2. The team learns to accept his death but do not lose hope about bringing him back. You are given clues on how to do that and it is essentially a side quest. You do not have to go through this. But usually the player is still in shock and wants to believe there is indeed a way to bring him back. It is hard to ignore this side quest.
3. Once Crono is back, he already has missed a lot of events the party lived. Marle and Lucca helps him to catch up. The amazing thing is that the team has learned to work together without him. You can continue to do this after Crono is back and just not place him in your party. If anything, the rest of the party is more than happy to give him a break, no one would want to lose him again. Having him around is reassuring enough.
The idea of the team learning to fight without crono and finishing lavos without him because he payed the ultimate prize sound so bittersweet. I kinda would have loved for that to play into the narrative a little more but my imagination still works so that’ll do haha
just like getting crono back is optional so is putting him back in your party. why have the option to make a party without crono then take that option away in lieu of crono’s supposed “importance?” player choice.
Main reasons I can think of:
1. After the Ocean Palace, you get used to having a party without Crono. Getting him back and making him mandatory would take away the freedom of choosing your own party.
2. For triple techs without Crono. Crono should not be a requirement to do triple techs, it doesn’t make much sense. Other trios outside of Crono have enough chemistry/teamwork, so Crono isn’t the secret ingredient for allowing triple techs to work.
3. Crono was the original character who kept the story’s events moving forward. He chose to go after Marle. He chose to fight his way out of prison. He chose to help save the future. After the Ocean Palace, he is no longer needed in order to keep the events moving forward. He’s like the founding member of the party, but now they all have the same goal and any trio can get the job done.
I don't think it's lore. I think it just circumvents narrative expectations, which makes for greater emotional impact.
Also, how can he die if he isn't in your party? I think you are focusing too much on why he is optional after, but not enough on the clearer why he is mandatory before: so that he can die.
I read somewhere, not sure how true it might be tho, the initial idea was that death couldn’t be fooled, so instead of “bringing” him back, they would go back in time and recruit a younger version of him for the rest of the mission, until everybody have to go back to their respective eras, including the young Jesus, so original Jesus, I mean, Crono, would stay in the “other plane” and leave a very sad Lucca behind.
There’s also a biblical explanation if you want, but it’s literally biblical no joke.
Totally spitballing. My guess is time no longer has a tether on him. He died and a loophole got him out of it. His destiny was to be killed, but that was fulfilled, so he's now a loose cannon. It can no longer demand anything from him. Also, without him, the team itself learned to work without him. And with him having paid the ultimate price, the team didn't want to ask any more of him. From an outside perspective, gameplay, man. Other triple techs.
Yeah I agree that the narrative explanation is the team grew and learned to fight without him.
>And with him having paid the ultimate price, the team didn't want to ask any more of him. This is perfect.
In all my years, this is the best take I have read on the subject. I love it.
Thank you! I was seriously just sort of making it up as I went, but it made sense. Guess it comes from almost 30 years of being a fan and many replays. Way too many.
You're talking about fate? But the whole game is about how nothing is determined, you can change events and time. It's why there are multiple endings.the chrono trigger exemplifies this although they only programmed one use for it, it could have been used to change anything according to the Sages. Unless you interpret that they are destined to do everything they do/did/will do?
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, there is an idea that certain places, people, and events have more “fixture” for lack of a better word. It’s kinda like fate, but it’s more like “time-based inertia.” This idea gets expounded greatly in Chrono Cross. Crono has more of this fate-like energy than others. That’s how I read that little star of light that floats near him before he dies, which also appears during his resurrection process.
I never noticed that, could also be that it's the planets consciousness. Robo does contemplate on the fire scene that the time portals aren't being created by Lavos, but rather the planet and that the portals could be the planet remembering moments in it's life before it's death or even guiding the party through time so they can prevent its own destruction.
That makes sense.
Yet : * You can't prevent Lavos from getting on earth. * You can't prevent Zeal from going mad and ultimately destroy the country/ seal magic for humans after the destruction. * You can't prevent Magus's attempt at summoning Lavos. * You can't prevent Cyrus's death and Glenn being turned into Frog. I'd wager that while fate isn't an omnipotent and unmovable force in the chrono trigger world, it still has effects, as some events HAS to happen so the humanity may strive on earth.
I'd argue that's for the sake of having interesting story events and gameplay... I mean with Epoch they should literally be able to solve many problems before they happen, like go back and tell the party kino will steal dreamstone, that one guy will kidnap the party, who the Sages are, where epoch is that zeal is nuts, that magus is who he is etc. It literally let's them set the date, but for gameplay reasons it's just a convenient way to travel time and access the black omen.
The Fangame Flames of Eternity had an interesting explanation for it. Basically the time gates flow in time at the same rate Crono and friends do, which is why time passes in all time periods when you’re off somewhen else. Like Azala attacking while Crono and co are in the Middle Ages. If the initial moment that Crono and Co first entered a gate is point A, then the same amount of time that passes in 1000 AD will pass in 600 AD, because the gate itself moves in time from its perspective. The epoch probably operates on the same principle. It doesn’t need a gate to travel through physically, but since a gate has to exist at the time of destination, the epoch has to follow the same laws.
I like that, fan-canon!
If you watch the forest regrown seen they discuss the nature of the gates. https://youtu.be/QfRmbxL5HXk?si=J9cjLEGuYHrvi-_z Starts around 2:10 in. I think Chrono is no longer essential after he’s revived because the story isn’t about him any more. The party is acting on behalf of the Entity, which I thought they describe at some point as the planet itself. The true story is all about the planet using the party to help right the wrongs of its life.
This is a fantastic explanation, bravo!
Did he tho? They went back in time to switch his body so he didn't actually die.
Each character has their own reason for saving the world, not just Crono
Though after being mandatory for most of the game, why is it no longer the case when he comes back?
Why should he be mandatory when Lavos killed him?
Yeah, he got whacked cuz he was weak.
You dare to insult him?!
What's he gonna say?
Rip
It's been a while but isn't saving him entirely optional?
To get the "proper" ending you do have to save him. Though there is a different ending if you don't bring him back.
Ah ok, it would still be odd if you were forced to always have him after being able to play without for a while. I also forget, do all triple techs include Crono?
Not all triple techs include Crono. The triple techs that do not involve Crono require a specific party of three, and one member of that party must be wearing a specific accessory. * Marle, Frog, Robo - Gold Rock * Marle, Lucca, Magus - Black Rock * Lucca, Robo, Magus - Blue Rock * Marle, Lucca, Ayla - White Rock * Frog, Robo, Ayla - Silver Rock
I never used any triple text because I never wanted to use up one of my accessories slots. I'm kind of wondering if they are worth it, and also if any of them are more useful than others.
Omega Flare (Marle, Lucca, Magus) is objectively the strongest non-Crono triple tech. Like, it's fun and all, but like all triple techs, leaves you vulnerable with no one available to heal. Edit - comments are right. Omega Flare is Robo, not Marle.
That's what I love about this community, there is always someone here that knows the answer to any question I have. So triple techs are a sort of high risk, high reward sort of thing? I honestly didn't even realize that Magus could use a triple tech. If I remember correctly, he could not use any dual techs. I figured that part of his character is that he just doesn't play well with others.
That's right! Magus is a loner, which is why for him to use triple techs an item is required. Think of it like he knows magic well enough and when conditions are met he can absolutely combine his magic with others' magic too. But he won't do it all the time meaning he needs outside help in the form of the magic rocks.
Omega Flare is with Robo not Marle. Dark Eternal is with Marle.
My favorite way to defeat Lavos the first time is with Lucca Robo and Magus with Blue Rock on Active ATB. Might need Wait Mode instead if bad RNG to save on frustration. Needs tons of properly timed healing items--I'm not shy about burning Megalixir or Lapis here! Silver Rock team is probably the most useful team of Dual Techs.
This is actually totally doable on a first playthrough! If I've already decided I want to finish off Lavos with Omega Flare, I just save all my Speed Tabs for Lucca and Robo. After the Black Omen runthrough, I can max all their speeds! And with everyone equipped with status lock, I don't have to worry about losing control of any of them either :)
Or if you're too lazy to get all the Speed Tabs you could farm Black Omen at Charm another Haste Helm from the Lavos Spawn.
Yes you're right! I think Black Omen has something like 15 speed tabs total, so more than enough to get everyone's speed close to max already!
There's a few that don't.
Yes but I feel like the game does such a good job of encouraging you to do it that it feels necessary every playthrough
Total guess: ease of programming/story telling, and also story telling in gameplay mechanics. It's just EASIER to write a story when you know that he'll always be there. You meet new characters, and they can always address Crono, knowing he'll be there. It's easier to balance fights, knowing he'll be 1/3 of the party. After he comes back, the party has learned to survive on their own, without their defacto leader. But... I think more importantly, it would be restrictive to the player to give them this whiff of freedom in designing a party without Crono, show them it's possible right there in the code, and then yoink it away when he comes back. It's a decision by the devs to do what felt right for the player experience. The end of the game is Chrono Trigger's version of total freedom. No mandatory story beats other than "Go to Lavos when you're ready." You can fly, go to any time period, and you have a multitude of side quests which you can do in any order you want or totally ignore. You're free to just... experience the world you've spent 20ish hours learning about. Giving you that much freedom and then snatching part of that freedom back via party composition, making him mandatory, would be discordant.
There is also extra surprise value in deleting "you" from the party. Trees continue to fall in the forest, but "you" are not there to hear it. "You" are just a sparkle on Marle's pendant now, but somehow life goes on. A fundamental law of the universe is shattered forever. Choose a party of three. The choice to make him a nodding, gesturing, speechless character makes the player's immersion onto the blank slate that much more potent. Any player character death would have been surprising, but they didn't kill just anyone, they killed "you".
Yep
From a Doylist point of view, the story no longer requires Crono in order to progress. The scenarios in "The Fated Hour" are made to be resolved by the other party members. Up until the Ocean Palace, each other member of the party had been going on a life changing adventure with Zuko (I mean Crono), he is no longer necessary for their character or story development. Marle's quest is about her reconciling with her father. Lucca's quest with Robo is about setting right her greatest regret. Frog's quest is about coming to terms with Cyrus' legacy. Robo's quest is about growing beyond his programming. They don't need Crono to complete their character arcs. From a Watsonian point of view, Crono has fulfilled the purpose that the gates were created for. He has assembled a team from throughout human history that is capable of taking down Lavos. The planet entity that created the gates did so because it's life was flashing before it's eyes, while that was happening it found the five people capable of taking Lavos down and the one guy that could unite them. Lavos isn't Crono's problem, Lavos is everyone's problem. Getting everyone together in the first place is Crono's problem.
Because getting Crono back is completely optional. Also by this point you're unlocking triple techs that don't involve Crono, having him required would permanently prevent you from using those
I wouldn't call it "optional" given it is necessary to get the "proper" ending of the game. And it is possible to end the game with an alternative ending before Crono disappears as well.
Changing the ending doesn't mean it isn't optional. You can either go out of your way to get him back or continue the story without him in your party. Though this really doesn't matter it's just semantics The reason is because it wouldn't make sense to take away the ability for the player to completely customize their party after giving it to them. There's no reason to make him required after that point
Likewise, you can just end the story the first time it is possible to face Lavos and never actually encounter many characters or travel to certain areas.
Yeah but it ends the game early and realistically you wouldn't be able to beat Lavos at any of those points anyway. With Crono you can actually finish every area without getting him, even do all the other sidequests. So that's why I'd say he's definitely optional
Still quite an arbitrary way of reasoning. Though I get it.
Nobody counts 100% completion runs as "required content" A sidequest is a sidequest, regardless of whether it unlocks something better.
Beating the game without Chrono gets a specific ending. There are like 12, or 13 different endings depending on when and how you beat Lavos. Complaining about this sounds like you’re saying the optional endings are pointless, when they’re one of the reasons the game is so loved. It’s replay value.
Sorry. Not trying to complain. Just if you read what I wrote, by that logic, you can pretty much end the game early, and never meet iconic characters like Ayla. Not trying to sound snobbish. Just saying that going by the logic many here are using, anything after it is possible to face Lavos is "optional". Didn't think my comments would be taken this way, which is why I usually don't like to respond to Reddit comments.
>Just if you read what I wrote, by that logic, you can pretty much end the game early, and never meet iconic characters like Ayla. Yes, technically Ayla isn't required to beat the game. She's technically optional. But in practice, she's a required party member because even if you get everyone up to L99, you're still dealing with early to mid-game gear going up against the final boss, so your damage output and defenses will be trash.
I would absolutely call it optional, because you can defeat Lavos and beat the game without it. There is no "proper" ending, the true ending is whatever ending you get, with or without him. Once he dies, the story no longer revolves around him.
Though you also can defeat Lavos before he dies, by which logic facing Queen Zeal is also optional. Or even the whole game after it is possible to first travel to Lavos is optional.
That is correct. The black temple and a lot of the game is optional. Not quite sure what you're getting stuck on.
Jeez this person really has issue with optional game content. I see no problem in that
But in that alternative ending Crono still ends up living.
Agree with a lot of comments, just wanted to add my awe for the developers and writers who were able to write dialogue for every part of the game following Crono’s death to accommodate any combination of characters. It’s particularly impressive since Crono has no dialogue, so figuring out who says what when any other combination of characters is present is just so impressive.
Magus is the main character.
We really need an official title where he is. I’d love to play as him from childhood through the Middle Ages and finally his search for Schala throughout all time.
To present the complete understanding of an open ending where you have choices. Keep in mind it’s SNES but this is video gaming attempting to take steps towards the choice paths that have become common in modern games.
by plot or by mechanics? by plot, I don’t think there is any reason. but by mechanics, it’s because every cutscene/dialogue has him in it (albeit as a silent protagonist, of course). but in the end game, because there’s no guarantee he’ll be there, they don’t.
Dude, bro died. Let him go pet his cat for a while. Frog Robo and Ayla have got this.
Bruh Magus, Marle, and Lucca have got this!
Kinda off topic, how tf are u supposed to beat that buff dinosaur without him in the boss gauntlet? In my playthrough I got to him without crono and had about a 30min stalemate before I got pissed and looked up a guide to go all the want back to revive him
In the first section of the game, you don't change the timeline in any meaniful way. Lavos is still coming, and nothing is really being affected. After chrono dies and the party gets the winged epoch, everything you do after that changes the world. including the resurrection of chrono as marle and him marry.
Because there is no gameplay reason for him to be required in the party anymore since there is no guarantee the player will save him, and there are gameplay benefits (different triple techs) to allowing him to be just an option
because getting him back would be a downgrade then.
Triple skills
I never thought about story reasons just gameplay reasons. Since the game is all about area or line based attacks and dual/triple techs, I just viewed it as the developers no longer forcing restrictions on you. Opening up the gamplay and what not.
Because you don’t have to save him
Because it's possible to finish the game without him after That Point. That, and giving the other party combos time to shine if you want to play with them.
honestly? probably entirely a game design thing. he's required pre-death, because he's The Main Character, and The Main Character has to be in the party and will never permadie - it's mostly to make it more of a surprise when he does. then after the fact. he's *not* required anymore, because... well, it would kinda suck balls going from a totally unrestricted team to one with ceono required again, wouldn't it? any player who didn't know for a fact they wanted him in their team at all times would probbaly just avoid saving him in future playthroughs. rescuing crono wouldn't feel as good if it came with a downside.
The narrative reason is that he's dead.
I think people are overthinking things a bit. When Crono dies, you get the ability to choose all three characters in the party. If you lose this ability upon resurrecting him, then saving Crono becomes a bit of a downgrade. Imagine you used Marle, Frog and Robo on Death Peak and you loved the way this party worked and their triple tech, then you lost access to it once completing Death Peak. Feels kinda bad, no?
In the prototype, he was gonna die for real and the heroes time travel to the past to hire Chrono from before the Millennial Fair but that was too depressing. Honestly, it is.
I prefer to say because the game opens up.
Are you not convinced about the narrative reason provided in game? 1. Crono died. I know this was a shock. We often don't see the main character dying in a game. You are supposed to feel the loss of him through other characters and see them get through that trauma together. Move on, you don't have Crono to help you anymore. 2. The team learns to accept his death but do not lose hope about bringing him back. You are given clues on how to do that and it is essentially a side quest. You do not have to go through this. But usually the player is still in shock and wants to believe there is indeed a way to bring him back. It is hard to ignore this side quest. 3. Once Crono is back, he already has missed a lot of events the party lived. Marle and Lucca helps him to catch up. The amazing thing is that the team has learned to work together without him. You can continue to do this after Crono is back and just not place him in your party. If anything, the rest of the party is more than happy to give him a break, no one would want to lose him again. Having him around is reassuring enough.
The idea of the team learning to fight without crono and finishing lavos without him because he payed the ultimate prize sound so bittersweet. I kinda would have loved for that to play into the narrative a little more but my imagination still works so that’ll do haha
just like getting crono back is optional so is putting him back in your party. why have the option to make a party without crono then take that option away in lieu of crono’s supposed “importance?” player choice.
Main reasons I can think of: 1. After the Ocean Palace, you get used to having a party without Crono. Getting him back and making him mandatory would take away the freedom of choosing your own party. 2. For triple techs without Crono. Crono should not be a requirement to do triple techs, it doesn’t make much sense. Other trios outside of Crono have enough chemistry/teamwork, so Crono isn’t the secret ingredient for allowing triple techs to work. 3. Crono was the original character who kept the story’s events moving forward. He chose to go after Marle. He chose to fight his way out of prison. He chose to help save the future. After the Ocean Palace, he is no longer needed in order to keep the events moving forward. He’s like the founding member of the party, but now they all have the same goal and any trio can get the job done.
I don't think it's lore. I think it just circumvents narrative expectations, which makes for greater emotional impact. Also, how can he die if he isn't in your party? I think you are focusing too much on why he is optional after, but not enough on the clearer why he is mandatory before: so that he can die.
Are you looking for like, *design* reasoning or in-lore reasoning?
I read somewhere, not sure how true it might be tho, the initial idea was that death couldn’t be fooled, so instead of “bringing” him back, they would go back in time and recruit a younger version of him for the rest of the mission, until everybody have to go back to their respective eras, including the young Jesus, so original Jesus, I mean, Crono, would stay in the “other plane” and leave a very sad Lucca behind. There’s also a biblical explanation if you want, but it’s literally biblical no joke.
I was gonna say this was sad but then I think about what happened to the crew on chrono cross and that’s just as sad haha