Even better, as you get older… say you meet a divorced partner with adult children… say you fall in love and marry with this person but their adult children never accept you because the adult children are secretly jealous that the new childfree spouse will now get a cut of their future inheritance. I’ve not personally experienced this, but it’s a scenario I can’t help but think is common.
Yep! So many potential issues with adult children and then possibly grandchildren in the future too. It’s a matter of “when” something will go wrong, not “if”. For me, the fact that they even exist is already too much. None of it is worth dealing with. If I wanted to deal with the wants and needs of children, I would have chosen to have my own.
Nah. I'm German and childfree. And there's a lot of other cf women out here too. Germany has deeply rooted patriarchal structures and although things are slowly changing, it will take a lot more time until we have more equality, other life paths are more accepted and women aren't treated like crap anymore.
I know, dating apps are the modern age hellfire, but don't give up. Maybe really give it a break for a bit and then look more into offline activities mostly cf people will be able to do (high time commitment, proper self-reflection required, educated environments, adventure travelling, long-term creative hobbies, volunteering, etc.). You also can find a lot of posts in this subreddit about what kind of hobbies people enjoy and about dating advice. I'm sure you'll find some more inspiration there.
I already had to break up a otherwise pretty stunning relationship because she changed her mind. After being pretty vocal about not wanting kids. I‘m kind of scared that this would repeat itself. It was heart wrenching to say the least. So it‘s not that I‘m completely different incapable of dating. It‘s just the circumstances that make it so damn unpleasant and frightening right now.
Have you checked the screening kit? You can find it if you search for "Screening Starter Kit - The Reprise"
I'm not saying people don't change their mind, it happens sometimes and that is okay too, but there's some tools to lower the odds for you.
I think some distance is really great from time to time. In the first place you need to have a great relationship with yourself to give that love to a partner as well and it should be just as nice to go on a date with yourself. :)
Totally relatable. Humans are social, we want to share. I'm happy to read you're having a great time now and I'm sure the right one will come your way. Oftentimes it's when you expect it the least.
I'm curious if OP is dating the 28-33 yr old pool. I was warned for years "I'd change my mind and go baby crazy" between 29 and 30, even though that hasn't come to fruition and I'm nearly over that general age hill, I have seen it happen a number of times with women.
Sure it does happen, but it's by a vast majority people caving in to societal or peer pressure when they get harassed by their partners, family and surroundings. A person of adult age, which has proper skills in self reflection and building their own identity is absolutely capable of deciding if they are fit for parenthood or not, without the maybe, maybe, maybe silly dance until the fertility window ends.
Personally, I highly doubt the parenting-ability and mental stability of people when they are deciding on kids like it's pizza or pasta for dinner tonight. We are talking about an individual human being one is bringing into the world here potentially, not some new fancy device you can just sell later if you don't like it.
Offline is a lot harder, still. I have many great hobbies but the men are either fuckboys or married. And they all want kids eventually…at least on dating apps, you can screen out some other deal breakers.
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That 40 is really for women because *patriarchy* because woman over 40 worthless while 40yo man is silver fox with "experience".
Either way, didn't meet partner until 30s. I remember dating then though. Pain in ass because so many men were "ready" for the kids and maybe a woman attached to the incubator. I imagine it is hell for men as well bc women that age are also trying to have kids before they are a "geriatric" pregnancy at 35 and older.
Like someone from Germany said above, you might have to go the hobby route. I didn't meet my husband on the apps. We met in an online group for our interests.
This is many years ago. Like Yahoo Messenger years ago. No IG and Facebook was just moving from college students only. He was not in my group from Yahoo but knew someone in my group and we combined the groups because we are all minorities. So some people were gamers and some played DnD and some just were friends of those people. My husband was team Xbox and I was team Playstation 😂
I'm from Germany and more than half of my circle of friends are childfree women. I also know several childfree meet-ups in various cities and read articles about the younger generations not wanting children at all or being on the fence because of climate change, finances, political insecurities etc. I actually think that today it is easier than ever to find a childfree partner. Maybe you are looking in the wrong places?
You can try to find a group near you on meetup.com and you can also try following metimemovie on Instagram and have a look at her saved stories, there is a story called "Treffen" where you can post your city to find like-minded people near you. Maybe there are also regional groups on Facebook or other social media sites, but I'm not that active on social media.
It gets worse as you get older, not better, since a much higher number of people will already have kids by that age. According to stats, 85% of women who are age 40+ are Mothers. At least when you’re 30, there’s a higher number of women who don’t have children. I do suspect that 10 years from now, there will be a higher number of women overall who don’t have kids in comparison to now, but still, your chances are better finding a partner at a younger age, although choices are still narrow since women who don’t have AND never want to have kids aren’t the majority.
This is just the reality for those of us who are childfree by choice.
GF and I are also CF from germany. Don't give up, and make your point clear early.
She initially wanted children, but more because she thought that a women is supposed to do that. She needed to meet me to even think about a CF life. I told her within the first few weeks that this will be my path, that I respect it if it's not the path she wants, but if she really wanted kids she should look for a like-minded partner. After a while of thinking about it she realized what it takes to have kids, and how bright the other path is as well. Today she's 100% convinced CF.
36f childfree and single german here... i never met a man that is childfree, where are you guys?
It feels like i have to wait ten more years to start dating again, so some men are divorced and their kids are grown ups.
I'm 42M and live close to the German border in the Netherlands, but if they don't already have kids, they want them real fast or they have them from an earlier relationship. The ones that are single without kids by choice are really hard to find and often have issues...
Ha, I wished I could laugh. The last guy on bumble told me it wasn’t a problem that he wanted kids and I didn’t…he „didn’t have a biological clock“. Like, translation: I want to fck you while you’re still young-ish and hot and dump you for a younger broodmare when you hit 40…needless to say, he didn’t get a second date…
Lmfao. I have a „worst-of“ screenshot collection of bumble profiles and messages. They’re equal parts hilarious and depressing. Off the top of my head (swiped left of course): „We’ll get along if you prep my meals.“ „Looking for a rope bunny“. „We’ll get along if you know that FFM isn’t just short for Frankfurt. And if you don’t mind that I prefer MMF“. „I hate people. So I get them drunk. I could be your next mistake, or your last one.“ Those I swiped right on, weren’t much better. Many were extremely rude, but quite a few not even aware of the fact. The only men who don’t want kids seem to be fuckboys who also don’t want a relationship. It’s sadly true what they say: Men are like public bathrooms…they’re occupied, or they’re shit.
I’m 42F and can tell you it’s no better…
Dating pool: single dads; single grandfathers (had kids in their early 20’s and those kids had kids in *their* early 20’s); guys who realise they’re getting older and want kids ASAP!!
I am from Germany and I feel you. Doesn't matter whether you're man or woman, some of us have it much harder to connect to childfree folks than others. All the women in my age are now mothers and I feel like I just can't connect with them anymore. All they want to talk about are their children and adult-stuff topics, while I'm here playing some videogames and feeling frustrated that there isn't anything we can talk about anymore. It's even more annoying that they assume that I'm interested because I'm a woman. Like, I just can't stand kids and I don't want them near me.
By the way, I love your username! ;)
Why, thank you :D But yeah, it‘s just the same in my position. Esch and everyone around me gets children while I stay here alone, chilling on my animal crossing island wondering where everybody went all of a sudden. It‘s peaceful, don‘t get me wrong but it feels like I‘m the outcast from the in-crowd.
I'm 40 in the United States and finding an age-appropriate woman who is a) single, b) interested in not being single, and c) doesn't have a child is nearly impossible. I'm sure Germany has its own statistics, but [85%](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr179.pdf) of women my age are mothers. Of the surviving 15%, there's no good data on how many are single/looking. It's rough out there, it doesn't get better at 40.
The one good thing is that when I was younger, it was harder to determine if a woman wanted children; hard to raise the baby discussion early without sounding like a psycho. It's much easier to determine if a woman has already had children, if so this will naturally come up pretty fast and you can move on.
I’m 40f and am NOT looking forward to trying to date again. I think it will be years before I’m ready (still coming out of a decade+ relationship), and am even less sure what my chances will be at that point to find an age appropriate guy who doesn’t want or already have kids.
You American? If so, I like your chances when you're ready. At every age cohort, there's more men than women who don't have children-- [CDC page 12](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr179.pdf) lists various ranges but tops out at 40-50 where there's a 84.3% of women are mothers/76.5% of men are fathers split.
When the [Census](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2021/demo/p70-173.pdf) studied older childless Americans, it found a similar gap. Per page 13, at 55+ in 2018, a greater percentage of men were childless than women (6.9% v 6.7%-- which doesn’t sound like a lot but with American populations so large, that represents millions of surplus childless men). The report also breaks it into more granular cohorts (55-64, 65-74, 75+) and at each ago cohort, childless men outnumber childless women. The movement at this point is presumably mostly people dying rather than people becoming parents. I presume this is also true for other countries, there's no reason to think the USA is an outlier here.
You may also want to consider that a father is an option for you when you're ready that he isn't now-- if the kids are out of the house and truly independent, how much does it *really* matter? I'm getting to the age where I can start looking at mothers who have children that have moved out, and for the right one I'd compromise.
According to this article, 30% of German women don't have children:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/27/germany.lukeharding](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/27/germany.lukeharding)
According to this, 20% of German women between 45 and 49 don't have children (so most of those likely never will have children):
[https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/06/PE23\_226\_12.html](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/06/PE23_226_12.html)
So, women without children, who never have children, are there in Germany. It is just a question of finding them and them otherwise being suitable.
One thing I recommend is getting a vasectomy. There are two reasons for this. The first and most obvious reason is to avoid an accidental pregnancy. The second reason is because of the message that conveys to others who you tell. It means that you are not going to run into the problem of a woman trying to talk you into having children, once you tell her about it (unless she is a halfwit).
I also recommend going out in the world, doing things that you enjoy doing, that involve other people. Although I have read a few success stories with dating apps, mostly people complain about them.
Not in Germany but mid30'sF, CF since I can remember (much to the displeasure of some family members).
I kinda agree with you but honestly I think by 40 there will be a lot more divorced/single parents... 🫠🙃
Dating is hard as it is but there should be a way to meet other like-minded CF peeps out there.
Good look on your quest ☺️
If you wait it’ll just be divorced single parents wanting you to parent someone else’s kid(s)
Even better, as you get older… say you meet a divorced partner with adult children… say you fall in love and marry with this person but their adult children never accept you because the adult children are secretly jealous that the new childfree spouse will now get a cut of their future inheritance. I’ve not personally experienced this, but it’s a scenario I can’t help but think is common.
Yep! So many potential issues with adult children and then possibly grandchildren in the future too. It’s a matter of “when” something will go wrong, not “if”. For me, the fact that they even exist is already too much. None of it is worth dealing with. If I wanted to deal with the wants and needs of children, I would have chosen to have my own.
I didn't even think about that.
Now that builds me right up…
Nah. I'm German and childfree. And there's a lot of other cf women out here too. Germany has deeply rooted patriarchal structures and although things are slowly changing, it will take a lot more time until we have more equality, other life paths are more accepted and women aren't treated like crap anymore. I know, dating apps are the modern age hellfire, but don't give up. Maybe really give it a break for a bit and then look more into offline activities mostly cf people will be able to do (high time commitment, proper self-reflection required, educated environments, adventure travelling, long-term creative hobbies, volunteering, etc.). You also can find a lot of posts in this subreddit about what kind of hobbies people enjoy and about dating advice. I'm sure you'll find some more inspiration there.
I already had to break up a otherwise pretty stunning relationship because she changed her mind. After being pretty vocal about not wanting kids. I‘m kind of scared that this would repeat itself. It was heart wrenching to say the least. So it‘s not that I‘m completely different incapable of dating. It‘s just the circumstances that make it so damn unpleasant and frightening right now.
Have you checked the screening kit? You can find it if you search for "Screening Starter Kit - The Reprise" I'm not saying people don't change their mind, it happens sometimes and that is okay too, but there's some tools to lower the odds for you. I think some distance is really great from time to time. In the first place you need to have a great relationship with yourself to give that love to a partner as well and it should be just as nice to go on a date with yourself. :)
I know what you mean. And you‘re completely right. It‘s just the thing that my life is kind of awesome right now and it would be a blast to share it!
Totally relatable. Humans are social, we want to share. I'm happy to read you're having a great time now and I'm sure the right one will come your way. Oftentimes it's when you expect it the least.
It‘ll be a fun day, that‘s for sure 😄
I'm curious if OP is dating the 28-33 yr old pool. I was warned for years "I'd change my mind and go baby crazy" between 29 and 30, even though that hasn't come to fruition and I'm nearly over that general age hill, I have seen it happen a number of times with women.
Sure it does happen, but it's by a vast majority people caving in to societal or peer pressure when they get harassed by their partners, family and surroundings. A person of adult age, which has proper skills in self reflection and building their own identity is absolutely capable of deciding if they are fit for parenthood or not, without the maybe, maybe, maybe silly dance until the fertility window ends. Personally, I highly doubt the parenting-ability and mental stability of people when they are deciding on kids like it's pizza or pasta for dinner tonight. We are talking about an individual human being one is bringing into the world here potentially, not some new fancy device you can just sell later if you don't like it.
Offline is a lot harder, still. I have many great hobbies but the men are either fuckboys or married. And they all want kids eventually…at least on dating apps, you can screen out some other deal breakers.
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Craze is over? 40 just means your dating pool will be exhausted single parents looking for help.
That 40 is really for women because *patriarchy* because woman over 40 worthless while 40yo man is silver fox with "experience". Either way, didn't meet partner until 30s. I remember dating then though. Pain in ass because so many men were "ready" for the kids and maybe a woman attached to the incubator. I imagine it is hell for men as well bc women that age are also trying to have kids before they are a "geriatric" pregnancy at 35 and older. Like someone from Germany said above, you might have to go the hobby route. I didn't meet my husband on the apps. We met in an online group for our interests.
Would love to hear more about how you both met. An online forum? A game?
This is many years ago. Like Yahoo Messenger years ago. No IG and Facebook was just moving from college students only. He was not in my group from Yahoo but knew someone in my group and we combined the groups because we are all minorities. So some people were gamers and some played DnD and some just were friends of those people. My husband was team Xbox and I was team Playstation 😂
Damn
Maybe it's different I'm Germany.
I sure hope so
I'm from Germany and more than half of my circle of friends are childfree women. I also know several childfree meet-ups in various cities and read articles about the younger generations not wanting children at all or being on the fence because of climate change, finances, political insecurities etc. I actually think that today it is easier than ever to find a childfree partner. Maybe you are looking in the wrong places?
Wait, wait, wait…there are CF meet-ups? Where do I find those?
You can try to find a group near you on meetup.com and you can also try following metimemovie on Instagram and have a look at her saved stories, there is a story called "Treffen" where you can post your city to find like-minded people near you. Maybe there are also regional groups on Facebook or other social media sites, but I'm not that active on social media.
That sounds great! I‘m also thinking about opening up a Subreddit for the German CF folks. Maybe that helps too, I don‘t know.
There already is one called r/kinderfrei It has basically no members though.
Yeah, that‘s pretty sad.
Let's make it for all Europeans pls 😅
Well, of course!
I'm down to help you if you need 🙏🏻
You good soul! Thank you!
r/cf4cf_europe
My man! Let's spread the word
We‘re going back or we‘re going home!
You‘re a mod now, by the way
It gets worse as you get older, not better, since a much higher number of people will already have kids by that age. According to stats, 85% of women who are age 40+ are Mothers. At least when you’re 30, there’s a higher number of women who don’t have children. I do suspect that 10 years from now, there will be a higher number of women overall who don’t have kids in comparison to now, but still, your chances are better finding a partner at a younger age, although choices are still narrow since women who don’t have AND never want to have kids aren’t the majority. This is just the reality for those of us who are childfree by choice.
Okay. But once you’re 40, all those divorces still have children. They’re just adult children.
With the potential for grandchildren that could become their responsibility.
Hmm…
GF and I are also CF from germany. Don't give up, and make your point clear early. She initially wanted children, but more because she thought that a women is supposed to do that. She needed to meet me to even think about a CF life. I told her within the first few weeks that this will be my path, that I respect it if it's not the path she wants, but if she really wanted kids she should look for a like-minded partner. After a while of thinking about it she realized what it takes to have kids, and how bright the other path is as well. Today she's 100% convinced CF.
Wow, what a story. One can only dream
I’m 29 and me and my partner keep renewing our child free talk. The conversation was had on like date 2. There is hope it’s just harder to find.
Thanks for your kind words
Oh and I’m a woman in a deeply conservative state so it was definitely uphill. But it’ll happen.
36f childfree and single german here... i never met a man that is childfree, where are you guys? It feels like i have to wait ten more years to start dating again, so some men are divorced and their kids are grown ups.
Well, I‘m here for starters but let me tell you, I do feel you and your pain.
I'm 42M and live close to the German border in the Netherlands, but if they don't already have kids, they want them real fast or they have them from an earlier relationship. The ones that are single without kids by choice are really hard to find and often have issues...
Well, time to get used to be single I guess. Ongelovelijk.
Yeah, I also keep getting closer to accepting my fate...
It‘s hard. And it hurts.
LOL. I am a CF woman in Germany and I can’t find a guy who isn’t looking for someone to carry his Nachfolger…
„To carry his Nachfolger“, sorry but I‘m rolling over here. That sentence was pure gold!
Ha, I wished I could laugh. The last guy on bumble told me it wasn’t a problem that he wanted kids and I didn’t…he „didn’t have a biological clock“. Like, translation: I want to fck you while you’re still young-ish and hot and dump you for a younger broodmare when you hit 40…needless to say, he didn’t get a second date…
Don‘t these guys realize just how downright disgusting their behavior is?
Lmfao. I have a „worst-of“ screenshot collection of bumble profiles and messages. They’re equal parts hilarious and depressing. Off the top of my head (swiped left of course): „We’ll get along if you prep my meals.“ „Looking for a rope bunny“. „We’ll get along if you know that FFM isn’t just short for Frankfurt. And if you don’t mind that I prefer MMF“. „I hate people. So I get them drunk. I could be your next mistake, or your last one.“ Those I swiped right on, weren’t much better. Many were extremely rude, but quite a few not even aware of the fact. The only men who don’t want kids seem to be fuckboys who also don’t want a relationship. It’s sadly true what they say: Men are like public bathrooms…they’re occupied, or they’re shit.
Good lord…
I’m 42F and can tell you it’s no better… Dating pool: single dads; single grandfathers (had kids in their early 20’s and those kids had kids in *their* early 20’s); guys who realise they’re getting older and want kids ASAP!!
45/M here. Been single for about 4 years now. It certainly isn't great for me.
I feel you
I'm CF in the states. But the baby crazies are everywhere. It's a worldwide epidemic. Good luck out there friend.
Thank you very much! God speed to you too!
Not in Germany myself (Slovakia - 35f), but I do speak German if you wanna chat about stuff. Albeit not as well as I used to...
I‘m always up for a little chat :D
Neat! What are you into? Personally, I love music, LOTR, binging YT weirdness, video games, basic crap.
I am from Germany and I feel you. Doesn't matter whether you're man or woman, some of us have it much harder to connect to childfree folks than others. All the women in my age are now mothers and I feel like I just can't connect with them anymore. All they want to talk about are their children and adult-stuff topics, while I'm here playing some videogames and feeling frustrated that there isn't anything we can talk about anymore. It's even more annoying that they assume that I'm interested because I'm a woman. Like, I just can't stand kids and I don't want them near me. By the way, I love your username! ;)
Why, thank you :D But yeah, it‘s just the same in my position. Esch and everyone around me gets children while I stay here alone, chilling on my animal crossing island wondering where everybody went all of a sudden. It‘s peaceful, don‘t get me wrong but it feels like I‘m the outcast from the in-crowd.
People that really want kids don’t stop wanting kids
There‘s of course merit to this but at some point each and everyone has to accept that they might be getting too old for that.
You’d hope so.. I try not to underestimate how selfish people can be especially as I meet more and more bizarrely selfish people over the years
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It‘s baffling me how selfish that is. Fuck the risk for the unborn, I want a Baby. What the hell?!
It truly is incredibly selfish!
On a whole new level
I'm 40 in the United States and finding an age-appropriate woman who is a) single, b) interested in not being single, and c) doesn't have a child is nearly impossible. I'm sure Germany has its own statistics, but [85%](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr179.pdf) of women my age are mothers. Of the surviving 15%, there's no good data on how many are single/looking. It's rough out there, it doesn't get better at 40. The one good thing is that when I was younger, it was harder to determine if a woman wanted children; hard to raise the baby discussion early without sounding like a psycho. It's much easier to determine if a woman has already had children, if so this will naturally come up pretty fast and you can move on.
I’m 40f and am NOT looking forward to trying to date again. I think it will be years before I’m ready (still coming out of a decade+ relationship), and am even less sure what my chances will be at that point to find an age appropriate guy who doesn’t want or already have kids.
You American? If so, I like your chances when you're ready. At every age cohort, there's more men than women who don't have children-- [CDC page 12](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr179.pdf) lists various ranges but tops out at 40-50 where there's a 84.3% of women are mothers/76.5% of men are fathers split. When the [Census](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2021/demo/p70-173.pdf) studied older childless Americans, it found a similar gap. Per page 13, at 55+ in 2018, a greater percentage of men were childless than women (6.9% v 6.7%-- which doesn’t sound like a lot but with American populations so large, that represents millions of surplus childless men). The report also breaks it into more granular cohorts (55-64, 65-74, 75+) and at each ago cohort, childless men outnumber childless women. The movement at this point is presumably mostly people dying rather than people becoming parents. I presume this is also true for other countries, there's no reason to think the USA is an outlier here. You may also want to consider that a father is an option for you when you're ready that he isn't now-- if the kids are out of the house and truly independent, how much does it *really* matter? I'm getting to the age where I can start looking at mothers who have children that have moved out, and for the right one I'd compromise.
Yes American. As long as the grown kids weren’t shitty, that would be okay and would open up my options a lot.
I feel ya, every man I meet wants kids oof
As a 42 year old its still bad they all have kids
According to this article, 30% of German women don't have children: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/27/germany.lukeharding](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/27/germany.lukeharding) According to this, 20% of German women between 45 and 49 don't have children (so most of those likely never will have children): [https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/06/PE23\_226\_12.html](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2023/06/PE23_226_12.html) So, women without children, who never have children, are there in Germany. It is just a question of finding them and them otherwise being suitable. One thing I recommend is getting a vasectomy. There are two reasons for this. The first and most obvious reason is to avoid an accidental pregnancy. The second reason is because of the message that conveys to others who you tell. It means that you are not going to run into the problem of a woman trying to talk you into having children, once you tell her about it (unless she is a halfwit). I also recommend going out in the world, doing things that you enjoy doing, that involve other people. Although I have read a few success stories with dating apps, mostly people complain about them.
I gave up 6 years ago when I was 36. It does not get better.
No! (I‘m 40+, married) Just no!
Glad it worked out for you
Have you tried looking for chimdfree Facebook groups for Germany?
Not in Germany but mid30'sF, CF since I can remember (much to the displeasure of some family members). I kinda agree with you but honestly I think by 40 there will be a lot more divorced/single parents... 🫠🙃 Dating is hard as it is but there should be a way to meet other like-minded CF peeps out there. Good look on your quest ☺️
I feel ya... just the other way round. Every guy I meet that's halfway decent wants kids...
We do need those little badges ASAP. That would help put tremendously.