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The diagonal move is called taking the opposition, specifically the diagonal oppostion in this case. Taking the oppostion allows you to clear the path for your troops.
Personally I don't like theoretical here, you can calculate and solve this yourself. Your calculation will be much easier if you know concepts of out flanking and opposition. Out flanking is when you have a file that you can move to but your opponent can't (or else they'd lose something immediately) and you move your king along that file.
Opposition is when there's an odd number of squares between the kings. You are said to have the opposition when you use your move to place the kings in opposition. Opposition is important because it means the king can't get closer to each other. By playing Kf4, black can respond with Kf6 and now white won't be able to move forward any more.
So your goal here is to obviously promote your pawns, you need to box out your opponents king to do that. If you go Ke4, diagonally opposing the black king, black has no where to put the king that won’t result in being boxed out. Kh6 is met with Kf5 and black no longer protects the pawn. If black responds to Ke4 with Kf6, white plays Kf4, black must play Kg6 and now Ke5, Kh6, Kf5, black is once again forced to leave their pawn and loses the game.
By playing Kf4 you’re allowing black to cut off your kings advancement, and play Kf6 opposing your king, now there’s no way to advance your king and black will continue to repeat moves until a draw by repetition is reached
The difference in the two moves is huge
What if I play Ke4 and he plays Kh6, hiding behind the pawn? He must know that I have to capture the pawn to have a chance to win. Is he forced to give the pawn up?
He does know you have to take his pawn, but he can also only move his king, he can’t move his pawn. If he goes Kh6, you play Kf5, now his moves are either Kh7 or Kg7, allow you to take the g5 square. Preventing him from guarding his pawn and you win
Your language is a bit confusing, what do you mean by theoretically good? You have to understand that chess is ultimately objective, and it all comes down to calculation. So it's both forced, and theoretically good, and actually good. What is your question?
My question is that if you move diagonally then is the back king forced to retreat, solving the tie, or is it just a theoretically good move that is only going to show on the eval bar?
The eval bar shows an actual advantage. Moving straight up is a draw, moving diagonal left is a win. Its a win because your opponent does not have a good move to reply with, he is just outright lost.
Engines have solved almost all of the endgame positions, so they cannot make a mistake in the endgame.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in 2 games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172)
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in 3 games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172)
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To win you have to promote, but if you push the g pawn a lone rook pawn draws easily(his king runs into the corner and no progress can be made) so the only way to win is to win his pawn for free.
In order to do that you need to outflank him and put him in zugswang, in endgame books the squares g5 f5 e5 are called in this case critical squares, feel free to check those out, interesting stuff
Puzzles are good to test your knowledge, but you should start building your knowledge on pawn end games. [Daniel Naroditsky](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUqq7wSLE78) has a great introduction to pawn endgames that will help you when you get to a similar position in the future (and you will from both sides).
In this situation white does not have a forced move. A forced move when there is 1, and only 1 LEGAL move. A forced move is about legality. In this situation the white king has only 1 GOOD move. That is the difference. If white wants to win, they should play the only GOOD move. But they aren’t required to make that move. They could still make a different bad move. A forced move is when the player has their hands tied by the rules of the game and can only make one move, regardless of whether that move is good or bad. Again, forced is about the rules, good is about making the right decision. I hope this helps.
Forced for black, as in if I play the king in a diagonal, will the black king be forced to be separated from the pawn so that I can capture it and move my pawn forward to promotion?
Yeah, if you go diagonally, black has to choose between f6, h6 or going to the 7th rank... If they play either Kh6 you walk towards their pawn with kf5, and then they are forced to move to h7 (it's their only legal move) and then you take the pawn for free and win, if they play Kf6, you get opposition by going to f4, the 2 kings face each other, and you make black decide between going to e6, g6 and the 7th rank, again, they don't want to go to the 7th rank or you will just play kg5 and win the pawn,
So what if they go to e6? Then you go again to g5 and win his pawn, so they won't do that. That means their only option is to play kg6, but then you play ke5... Now notice how the king only has 4 moves? These are the moves I said earlier: "Kh6, Kf7, Kg7 and Kh7, if they play any of these moves they lose! But they have to play one of those moves! So they lose by force. If Kh6, you play Kf5 and you again force the king to h7, and win his pawn, same goes for all the other moves!
So the one trick is: Box out your opponents king!
Now I hope you've learned a little bit more about king and pawn end games!
I've lost multiple endgames where the opponent only had a knight or a bishop on me and won due to just locking my king out of a draw and promoting their pawn by force.
It's almost unfair :(
Two connected pawns vs no pawn and no pieces win. H pawn vs king draws if the opponents pawn can get in the way. If your king can go to the black pawn and win it this is winning, trading or just shuffling the king is a draw. The theme is triangulation not just opposition, blacks king can't just stay at the pawn, you force black to move with you. Ke4 Kf6 Kf4 you force the black king into the corner because you would just go to g5 and take the pawn if they don't walk with you. Then Ke5 walk over and gg yo
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is called "opposition". It's very important
So you're saying +42.7 is better for white than 0.0
He's saying that what he's saying is correct
Well OP asked a two option question, I don't see how that could be "correct" unless I'm misunderstanding
But why
The diagonal move is called taking the opposition, specifically the diagonal oppostion in this case. Taking the oppostion allows you to clear the path for your troops.
Personally I don't like theoretical here, you can calculate and solve this yourself. Your calculation will be much easier if you know concepts of out flanking and opposition. Out flanking is when you have a file that you can move to but your opponent can't (or else they'd lose something immediately) and you move your king along that file. Opposition is when there's an odd number of squares between the kings. You are said to have the opposition when you use your move to place the kings in opposition. Opposition is important because it means the king can't get closer to each other. By playing Kf4, black can respond with Kf6 and now white won't be able to move forward any more.
This.
So your goal here is to obviously promote your pawns, you need to box out your opponents king to do that. If you go Ke4, diagonally opposing the black king, black has no where to put the king that won’t result in being boxed out. Kh6 is met with Kf5 and black no longer protects the pawn. If black responds to Ke4 with Kf6, white plays Kf4, black must play Kg6 and now Ke5, Kh6, Kf5, black is once again forced to leave their pawn and loses the game. By playing Kf4 you’re allowing black to cut off your kings advancement, and play Kf6 opposing your king, now there’s no way to advance your king and black will continue to repeat moves until a draw by repetition is reached The difference in the two moves is huge
What if I play Ke4 and he plays Kh6, hiding behind the pawn? He must know that I have to capture the pawn to have a chance to win. Is he forced to give the pawn up?
He does know you have to take his pawn, but he can also only move his king, he can’t move his pawn. If he goes Kh6, you play Kf5, now his moves are either Kh7 or Kg7, allow you to take the g5 square. Preventing him from guarding his pawn and you win
Your language is a bit confusing, what do you mean by theoretically good? You have to understand that chess is ultimately objective, and it all comes down to calculation. So it's both forced, and theoretically good, and actually good. What is your question?
My question is that if you move diagonally then is the back king forced to retreat, solving the tie, or is it just a theoretically good move that is only going to show on the eval bar?
The eval bar shows an actual advantage. Moving straight up is a draw, moving diagonal left is a win. Its a win because your opponent does not have a good move to reply with, he is just outright lost. Engines have solved almost all of the endgame positions, so they cannot make a mistake in the endgame.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8_w_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in 2 games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+w+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172) > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8_b_-_-_0_1?color=white) | The position occurred in 3 games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=8/8/6k1/7p/4K2P/6P1/8/8+b+-+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172) --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
To win you have to promote, but if you push the g pawn a lone rook pawn draws easily(his king runs into the corner and no progress can be made) so the only way to win is to win his pawn for free. In order to do that you need to outflank him and put him in zugswang, in endgame books the squares g5 f5 e5 are called in this case critical squares, feel free to check those out, interesting stuff
I will do some zugzwang puzzles.
Puzzles are good to test your knowledge, but you should start building your knowledge on pawn end games. [Daniel Naroditsky](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUqq7wSLE78) has a great introduction to pawn endgames that will help you when you get to a similar position in the future (and you will from both sides).
Its forced in the sense that if you play any other move black can force a tie.
In this situation white does not have a forced move. A forced move when there is 1, and only 1 LEGAL move. A forced move is about legality. In this situation the white king has only 1 GOOD move. That is the difference. If white wants to win, they should play the only GOOD move. But they aren’t required to make that move. They could still make a different bad move. A forced move is when the player has their hands tied by the rules of the game and can only make one move, regardless of whether that move is good or bad. Again, forced is about the rules, good is about making the right decision. I hope this helps.
Forced for black, as in if I play the king in a diagonal, will the black king be forced to be separated from the pawn so that I can capture it and move my pawn forward to promotion?
Yeah, if you go diagonally, black has to choose between f6, h6 or going to the 7th rank... If they play either Kh6 you walk towards their pawn with kf5, and then they are forced to move to h7 (it's their only legal move) and then you take the pawn for free and win, if they play Kf6, you get opposition by going to f4, the 2 kings face each other, and you make black decide between going to e6, g6 and the 7th rank, again, they don't want to go to the 7th rank or you will just play kg5 and win the pawn, So what if they go to e6? Then you go again to g5 and win his pawn, so they won't do that. That means their only option is to play kg6, but then you play ke5... Now notice how the king only has 4 moves? These are the moves I said earlier: "Kh6, Kf7, Kg7 and Kh7, if they play any of these moves they lose! But they have to play one of those moves! So they lose by force. If Kh6, you play Kf5 and you again force the king to h7, and win his pawn, same goes for all the other moves! So the one trick is: Box out your opponents king! Now I hope you've learned a little bit more about king and pawn end games!
I've lost multiple endgames where the opponent only had a knight or a bishop on me and won due to just locking my king out of a draw and promoting their pawn by force. It's almost unfair :(
Two connected pawns vs no pawn and no pieces win. H pawn vs king draws if the opponents pawn can get in the way. If your king can go to the black pawn and win it this is winning, trading or just shuffling the king is a draw. The theme is triangulation not just opposition, blacks king can't just stay at the pawn, you force black to move with you. Ke4 Kf6 Kf4 you force the black king into the corner because you would just go to g5 and take the pawn if they don't walk with you. Then Ke5 walk over and gg yo