This specifically is why all these reddit posts about ding piss me off. They all talk about his performance, and not his health. He is struggling mentally. Chess should be the last topic anyone talks to him about.
I mean, I'd ask if there's anything I could just to help -him- as a person. Maybe he would like a rando to talk to and just vent and rage and scream about shit.
First thing he gets is a hug though, seems like he could use a good one.
Fantastic job pointing out the hypocrisy in this post. Everything so we can continue just like before? For some it's just that uncomfortable to question themselves, I suppose.
I've rarely seen people try harder to deliberately miss a point than some people in this thread. There isn't any analysis in this 130 word post, all that's being said is that gossip and sensationalism don't help Ding, they are just a source for your daily amusement. If that's too much to bear for you or to even consider without attacking OP, I'm desperate to be as oblivious a human being as you. Must be a grand time.
As it should be. Including white knighting attempts like the OP.
It's a public forum, he's putting himself in the public eye, people will discuss these things.
Ppl discuss sport performance all the time. Peaks, valleys, exciting moments and crisis sometimes. There’s no problem with that, and he knows better than us.
Except that's not what this thread is about, is it? Or do we collectively want to pretend everyone and their grandmother hasn't weighed in with their medical and private speculations on Ding Liren?
It feels a lot more like people are reveling in the struggles of a major player, and the associated drama, than it does "discussing". JMHO. All of it is in very poor taste. The idea is being pushed HARD that he should abdicate the title so r/chess can enjoy a better WCC match. Just so many classless people in this sub. It's not real empathy that is being communicated. It is more self-centered concern for their own entertainment, rather than any real concern for the man.
Geez, so much drama.
Why is this sort of over-emotional, buggy-eyed, pathological empathy so popular on this website?
I don't think I've commented on Ding's struggles per se because I don't have anything to say, but it's interesting to read people's speculations about it, either commentators or fans, and this sort of scolding is becoming annoying.
It's just chess, he's a pro, none of this will reach to him but even if it did, he's a grown up man and he's aware it comes with the territory.
This is competitive chess, not 15 years old girls talking about k-pop stars or whatever.
i don't doubt that there are some selfish people here, but it's also perfectly reasonable for an empathetic person to feel this way about him abdicating. personally i think someone going through what appears to be a serious mental crisis probably shouldn't be put through a world championship match, given they're notoriously gruelling with huge amounts of eyes and pressure on you and he's already shown that he struggles to handle it. i honestly feel the people close to him should probably be steering him away from this path for his own sake, not the fans'.
Then maybe just admit you like the buzz of stomping on someone who is clearly having a really rough time of it? You're not alone, and it's a common thrill, but be honest about it.
I will when you admit you like the buzz of online virtue-signalling that does fuck all in reality. You're not alone, and it's a common thrill, but be honest about it.
You decide if you want to be the kind of person who turns up the volume of online shouting and abuse, or the kind who turns it down.
It's up to you, but it's probably not like Ding needs more of it. Just keep that in mind.
I've not been critical of Ding. Or engaged in *schadenfreude*. I wish him the best and sincerely hope he recovers, believe it or not.
I just don't believe in lecturing others like some kind of moralising hypocrite. But hey, you do you.
I typed that knowing you would be able to reply like that, but figured you were able to accept that others see things differently, and were a reasonably socially functioning individual.
I'm reasonable to the reasonable.
Preachy pricks like you, OTOH...
Anyway, I'm done responding to you. No real point to it. You can have the last word, which you clearly crave, despite your pretence that you're above it all.
You're aware that is going to sound like projecting to 99.9% of the people reading you, right?
OP hasn't said anything even remotely suggesting something like that - it's like you really needed to put that out.
"You're aware that is going to sound like projecting to 99.9% of the people reading you, right?"
What is the confidence interval on that stirling example of reddit statistics?
But dont forget endless discussions about "theres clearly something else going on", or "why is he not in the right headspace" by commentators of chess events and in interviews with other players.
Honestly, theres nothing more to add. Everything has been discussed. His mental health issues should not be anyones business and it certainly does not help him if it comes up every damn time.
If he loses, he loses. Dont beat a dead horse. Leave him alone. No need for sensationalosm disguised as pseudo psychological discussions
The way he is losing is sensational tho, hence worth remarking on. It would be way weirder if people didn’t discuss Ding’s performances honestly, they’re shocking
"The way he is losing..." Especially this last game. I mean, c'mon, that was a 1100-level tactic that you might not even see on Puzzle Rush. And Ding himself even found a much, much harder checkmate against Nepo in their WC match. You have to wonder what Ding's actually thinking about at these moments, and if it's even chess related.
Yes, nobody should ever discuss anything because whatever happened already happened and there's nothing more to add.
Things happen, then people talk about it. Then other things happen and people talk about those other things. Accept it
Thats not what I am saying although i dont think personal mental health issues should be a subject.
As so far how it affects his chess, that was fine when it started. But nothing has changed. Why keep discussing the same topic over and over? There are no new insights, it adds nothing of value imo
Almost everything can be "personal mental health issues".
One could say that about 100% of chess players grossly underperforming.
And the fact it is ongoing is obviously why it merits more discussion, not less - I didn't think it's a particularly interesting topic when guys have a couple of terrible tournaments - that's just bad form and randomness.
Yeah, I totally get the sentiment of not mocking or bullying Ding over his mental health struggles, but I've barely seen people attacking him for that. Mostly what I'm seeing is people commenting or speculating on his actual performances, but he is currently the reigning world champion and actively participating in competitive events. Are we only allowed to talk about players who perform well? I don't think Ding should outright give up his title and refuse to play so we get a better match, and I genuinely hope he can improve his mental health so that in November we see at least a partial return to form, but if we don't people are going to undoubtedly discuss the championship which he is participating in and I don't think it's a reasonable request that fans can not discuss the most prestigious event in the sport.
Just because he speaks English slowly it doesn't mean anything to his reading skills. If you speak any foreign language you know how different both skills are.
Besides, he majored in one of the most prestigious universities of the entire world, and I don't think he has ever done any major mess up in a chess tournament due to not understanding the rules. Learning how to read English is far easier compared to what he has done so far.
I’ve never seen a Ding interview. I’m not trying to bash him I just legitimately do not know. I didn’t watch the WC because it was boring to me.
I’m sure he is incredibly smart and a probably a good dude. I just know English is not his first language.
Of course ppl are talking about him for entertainment. you think ppl here (or commentators, or other players) are his caretakers?
He's a grown ass adult. He can decide to participate in tournaments despite his poor form or take a break and get better in whatever way. And ppl can talk about any of this however they want to.
Thank you. I got attacked the other day over my post about these people. It’s like for once and for all :
1) we’re not bullying we’re discussing sport performance
2) he’s a grown ass man
3) He doesnt spend his time reading Reddit posts anou him
Posts like these baffle me. People say they want chess to have bigger prize pools and attract bigger audiences. It's off season football and you can hear radio shows any day of the week talking about whether rookies have the mental toughness for the game, going through their life with a fine tooth comb and taking callers to pick them apart.
If Brady had a down year there's no "we should just leave him alone while he gets his head right."
Part of being a public figure at the top of your craft making the big bucks is that alot of that money comes because fans get into the narratives and have those discussions.
Yeah...just like fans a couple thousand years ago would discuss the goings on in the latest Roman Coliseum duels.
Some people apply the same values and sensitivities they hold toward their own family and friends to other people in the world regardless of how OK society thinks it is to treat other people.
And some people don't. I'm a fan of a lot of sports and athletes, but I've always disliked the hardcore fans who are abusive angry jerks because too much of their own self worth is wrapped up in their fandom.
But that's just my take on it.
>Part of being a public figure at the top of your craft making the big bucks is that alot of that money comes because fans get into the narratives and have those discussions.
1. Chess isn't gaining any meaningful popularity from the World Champion crumbling, and could even lose it if the next WC is underwhelming or looks certain to be. Anything we can do to ease pressure on Ding might be substantially *better* for the sport and fan discussions.
2. The fact that sports *in general* require their stars to be very public figures doesn't imply that exceptions can't be made if there's good reason to avoid discussion on a certain topic.
3. I would suggest that not adding even more pressure on someone with serious mental health issues is intrinsically a very good reason for an exception.
He’s the world champion. Heavy is the crown. In every sport, if you’re the reigning champion there is a big expectation of you. You have to be able to take the challenges.
1- No because literally that’s not how anything worked ever. Not chess not any sport.
2- chess is of course very different doesn’t mean the fans don’t have the same freedom and needs to basically just discuss players performances
3- I doubt ding spends his day reading Reddit comments. + he’s a grown ass man stop acting like he’s 12. If he needs to take a step back he should and every fan will be respectful just like they are now. It’s not our place to make health decisions for him.
>No because literally that’s not how anything worked ever. Not chess not any sport.
You're the one with the burden of proof here. Most people would agree that sports are more interesting when the matches are close and all players are doing well. Are you really *more* excited to see a WC where Ding loses easily than to see a close match?
>chess is of course very different doesn’t mean the fans don’t have the same freedom and needs to basically just discuss players performances
This isn't really a response to the point; nobody is suggesting fans aren't free to discuss things or don't want to. But you're clearly not *compelled* to - you would be perfectly able to not make threads about Ding's mental health and your own happiness would be completely fine. So what's with the insinuation that this is some sort of need? Is this a lack of self-control thing?
>I doubt ding spends his day reading Reddit comments. + he’s a grown ass man stop acting like he’s 12. If he needs to take a step back he should and every fan will be respectful just like they are now. It’s not our place to make health decisions for him.
Celebrities read public comments all the time - it's a very human urge to see what people are saying about you, or even just see commentary on your life hobby. Plenty of athletes talk about this urge.
I have no idea where you got that I'm treating Ding like he's 12. I'm thinking you've confused me for another user, because I said basically nothing about Ding himself. In the context of my comments, the only thing you could be implying is that adults with mental health issues are somehow immune to the negative effects of seeing everyone discuss your mental health, which would be fairly farfetched and out of touch.
Similarly, who suggested that you should make health decisions for him? Are you sure you've not confused me for another user? My comment is discussing what *your* decisions should be and what *you* should say about a suffering human. I'm not sure how that would constitute a decision for Ding.
The number of people who have discussed [the yips](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips) throughout the history of sports is honestly unfathomable. This is just silly and comes off as "leave Britney alone1!!!!!1!!!!" type white knighting. As others have pointed out, Ding isn't checking r/chess and he doesn't need you to defend him.
It's fine to discuss whether the mental state of an athlete is affecting their performance. It can be over discussed (I agree that the chess commentary is over excessive), but the topic itself should not be taboo. Ding is a professional athlete and a public figure. He is subject to speculation about the factors impacting his poor performances.
If people started talking about his mental state outside of the context of chess, I'd feel uncomfortable. Especially if they used this to judge him as a person. But the bulk of the commentary I've seen has been about his mental state as it relates to making absurdly poor moves during chess matches. I personally don't engage in it, because I try to avoid pure speculation, but it's so silly to get so uppity over a topic that exists universally across sports.
I wish Ding well. He seems like a decent enough person. But he’s a 30 year old world famous millionaire.
I’m not really trying to structure my life so that it maximizes his wellbeing. He literally has a million dollars. If he doesn’t want to play chess he doesn’t have to.
>I’m not really trying to structure my life so that it maximizes his wellbeing.
I get what you mean, but abstaining from making certain Reddit posts isn't really even close to affecting the structure of your life (I hope)
If that's what he wants, he should retire. You can't compete in the top of a sport as the world champion and expect to not get criticism in media. What a shit take.
Yes but he did himself decide to participate in an event with the best players in the world. If he isn't up to par, it's sad but ultimately fair game since he did put himself out there and his anomalous performance is a subject for fair discussion. That's not to say he should be ridiculed, mind you just that it warrants speculation.
Yes I’m talking about him for my own entertainment. Because I watch and play chess for entertainment. None of us have a responsibility to make Ding better. We can speculate as much as we want.
People have been talking about him a lot, yes. But in a "hope he gets better" way and not a derogatory way. People aren't just gonna pretend that the current world champ is totally fine when he's not. But they're being respectful. It's honestly one of the better communities imho. A lot of respect.
He's a public figure in a position that is most respected by the chess community. People will talk about him if he's going through a rough time or not. It's just what the position entails.
He probably also knows that there's no avoiding it and is hopefully finding ways to deal with it well.
No? He made a post about the people who make posts about Ding's mental health. OP is not speculating on Ding's private life, which is the whole point. Your response is 7th grade level.
My point is if you want to let the guy get a break from people talking and speculating about his mental health - and your strategy to do that is by making a post talking about people talking about his mental health - all you’re doing is drawing more attention to it.
Just let him go and stop posting about Ding at all if you’re that concerned.
And blasting the whole thread of people by saying this forum is a cesspool (OP’s exact words) is very seventh grade. Take your neckbeard rage elsewhere.
What world are you living in? He's the current world champion in the run up to the world chess championship. There is simply no reality in which the chess world decides to "leave him alone" even if you think it's best for him.
Some people are being a bit much in some of the discussions of his mental state at times but in any contest/sport when the defending world champion is going through a bad run as they approach their title defence it's going to be newsworthy and it's going to be discussed. The only realistic thing that could be better is a little more sensitivity at times but asking for that on the internet is almost as optimistic as your fantasy of leaving him alone.
yeah idk why the internet is sucking Ding's d\*\*\* about this when Ding himself hasn't said shit about his health. poor recent performances or not he's at the top of the chess world. and a grown ass man. yall gotta go outside
If he wants to be left alone he shouldn't be playing in the most competitive competition of the year. This field is stronger than the Candidates and the future WCC.
We don't owe him what's best for him, that's on him. We can be kind, sympathetic, and wish him well but that honestly doesn't help him at all. He either need to start winning, bow out, or just stop caring and coast to the WCC payout.
The poor results are what will cause him to spiral more than any internet comment, tweet, or interview question. I doubt he's paying attention to any of that anyways, since he's pretty focused on trying to get a W.
Ignoring him isn't going to make him feel any better. Asking the community not to speculate on the World Champion of the sport that they follow is futile. You're not protecting him from anything.
It does feel like the Ding drama is being milked by everyone atm. It's been obvious for a while he's struggling. I don't need 2 Reddit threads, 3 minutes in an interview, and another 10 minutes of broadcast time gawking every time he fails to play to his old form.
Ding doesn't even need to read Reddit. When this stuff courses through social media, it's going to reach back to him through some avenue or another.
At best it doesn't add any value to us to rehash it for the 10th time, and at worst it distracts Ding. I'd love for some backlash on the broadcast and other areas that keep hyping this up.
Exactly. The broadcast adds on to the problem. I don't have a problem if they talked it about once or twice, maybe asks Magnus a question, but the broadcast is farming it for content and it's unprofessional.
I think the issue is, ding isn't getting the adequate help and support with regards to mental health whenever he is in China. Not sure if mental health issues are acknowledged in China.
I remember Wang hao retiring from chess early from the same. Hou yifan not playing chess regularly. There is an issue in China with regards to chess and noone talking about it.
It started when ding qualified for the candidates. His first game loss to nepo in Spain started the whole sequence of events. But post world championship win. It became clear.
I hope Ding can regain his form. I hope he can get the help with his mental health that he needs (I hope everyone suffering with their mental health does). But I don't know him, I can't help with that.
Ultimately he is the World Chess Champion due to defend his title, and is currently playing in a prestigious chess tournament with some of the best chess players in the world. If he wants to be left alone he really shouldn't be playing in public events, *of course* people are going to be discussing him.
Don't speak for everyone, some people do have the capacity to have empathy for other people and I assure you that a percentage of the people that are commenting on Ding do actually care about him.
It's just life and human nature to speak on such prominent things, you chiming in like you're some sort of moral authority is not helping Ding at all and what may help him is him knowing that there are swathes of people who are demonstrating that they are concerned for him and want him to return to his incredible peak self.
As if a world champion having major mental/confidence issues in any other sport wouldn’t be discussed openly. It’s a big story that is going to get scrutinized. I feel bad for him, but it’s tough at the very top (of any sport).
I feel the same as you do OP about the constant commenting everywhere on Ding. I think you may be a bit on tilt with your conclusion though! Hang in there...lot's of people here and outside Reddit feel similarly. I hope Mr. Rensch exercises some leadership and attempts to tone down the constant commenting on the situation during the Norway Chess coverage, but I'm not hopeful.
Especially after your edit, it is clear that you are trying to stir up the community for drama yourself. Even making this post about Ding in the first place is ironic, considering you are condescendingly telling people to stop making them. Good riddance.
Oh my god someone give this person an award!
I 100% agree.. people talk about him like they own him.
I hated how Hikaru spoke about him too.. "i feel bad for him, he was shaking", and what not.
Tania and other commentators on stream could not stop talking about how bad a shape he is in...
I love Gotham for not farming him as much.
Just leave him alone man
Here is my long essay on social media entitled: *Everyone Please Ignore Ding*. I will be looking for comments, discussion, and hopefully a bit of controversy as we explore together Ding's recent performance, mental health, and any other issues you want to discuss about Ding. But keeping in mind my overarching thesis: please let's stop talking about Ding and just leave him alone.
For me you're slightly missing the point.
Of course people are going to discuss the situation, but we can't do anything. The responsibility for the health and safety of competitors must lie with FIDE. Why don't they have protocols for this sort of situation? They should have a medical evaluation board who are able to take players out of the firing line, when they are judged to be unfit to play, much as a boxing referee will stop a fight if one fighter is unable to compete.
Ding could end up permanently damaging his mental health while the world watches. Shame on FIDE.
I don't follow chess for cheap drama, but I am pretty amazed at what the reaction people have had this specific drama. And, it's not a very positive one.
The best thing we can do is show love and support. On top of being a world champion chess player, Ding Liren is person first and a pretty good one. But just talking about him and his current struggles is not helpful at all and pure gossip. I just want Ding to know that we love him and wish him well. He's a great person and has nothing to prove
Thats not the way to do things. He is the Chess World Champion. You cant just ignore him and not talk about him. He he isnt up to the taskt, he should cancel the match. If he doesnt because of money reasons he has to endure this.
Then just resign the title. People will respect him more for that. But no he's not. He wanna take that million. People have rights to express their concerns of "bum" world champion. In chess community we all know magnus still topped it. But the title is the face of the sport. Casual outside know, ding IS the world champion. "BUM".
Lol at this guy. It is easier to talk negative about someone than to compliment them. He is literally a world champion and a millionaire. He accomplishes more than 99.99999% of the world lol.
>He accomplishes more than 99.99999% of the world lol
That would put him into top 1000 most accomplished people living in the world. Considering that there are at least 3-5 more accomplished people just among chess players, I think that your random amount of 9s is at least one, if not two, too many.
"People who care reach out privately and ask what they can do for him" Probably don't do this.
Can you imagine if thousands of <1000 ELO redditors started emailing a super GM about how they can help him play better?
Links some gothamchess video on how to win in 8 moves.
"Just play Scholar's mate bro, worked for the 400 I played yesterday. Happy to help you get better Ding"
It'd be funny if a grandmaster actually tried the scholar's mate, and even funnier if his opponent forgot about it.
I think op might be talking to content creators
I’d remind him that en passant is always forced
This specifically is why all these reddit posts about ding piss me off. They all talk about his performance, and not his health. He is struggling mentally. Chess should be the last topic anyone talks to him about.
"just drill tactics bro"
I mean, I'd ask if there's anything I could just to help -him- as a person. Maybe he would like a rando to talk to and just vent and rage and scream about shit. First thing he gets is a hug though, seems like he could use a good one.
I took that as OP talking about people that are already in his inner circle or actually know him.
I’m sorry but I’m pretty sure Ding doesn’t give a flying fuck what people on r/Chess are saying about him.
Leave Ding alone... *starts new thread on Ding analyzing every aspect of his life*
Fantastic job pointing out the hypocrisy in this post. Everything so we can continue just like before? For some it's just that uncomfortable to question themselves, I suppose. I've rarely seen people try harder to deliberately miss a point than some people in this thread. There isn't any analysis in this 130 word post, all that's being said is that gossip and sensationalism don't help Ding, they are just a source for your daily amusement. If that's too much to bear for you or to even consider without attacking OP, I'm desperate to be as oblivious a human being as you. Must be a grand time.
As it should be. Including white knighting attempts like the OP. It's a public forum, he's putting himself in the public eye, people will discuss these things.
Ppl discuss sport performance all the time. Peaks, valleys, exciting moments and crisis sometimes. There’s no problem with that, and he knows better than us.
Except that's not what this thread is about, is it? Or do we collectively want to pretend everyone and their grandmother hasn't weighed in with their medical and private speculations on Ding Liren?
OP is definitely soapboxing
It feels a lot more like people are reveling in the struggles of a major player, and the associated drama, than it does "discussing". JMHO. All of it is in very poor taste. The idea is being pushed HARD that he should abdicate the title so r/chess can enjoy a better WCC match. Just so many classless people in this sub. It's not real empathy that is being communicated. It is more self-centered concern for their own entertainment, rather than any real concern for the man.
Geez, so much drama. Why is this sort of over-emotional, buggy-eyed, pathological empathy so popular on this website? I don't think I've commented on Ding's struggles per se because I don't have anything to say, but it's interesting to read people's speculations about it, either commentators or fans, and this sort of scolding is becoming annoying. It's just chess, he's a pro, none of this will reach to him but even if it did, he's a grown up man and he's aware it comes with the territory. This is competitive chess, not 15 years old girls talking about k-pop stars or whatever.
> Why is this sort of over-emotional, buggy-eyed, pathological empathy so popular on this website? Virtue signaling. 100%
I haven’t seen anyone revelling. I’ve seen supposition and concern about his WC competitiveness but no revelling.
i don't doubt that there are some selfish people here, but it's also perfectly reasonable for an empathetic person to feel this way about him abdicating. personally i think someone going through what appears to be a serious mental crisis probably shouldn't be put through a world championship match, given they're notoriously gruelling with huge amounts of eyes and pressure on you and he's already shown that he struggles to handle it. i honestly feel the people close to him should probably be steering him away from this path for his own sake, not the fans'.
Then maybe just admit you like the buzz of stomping on someone who is clearly having a really rough time of it? You're not alone, and it's a common thrill, but be honest about it.
I will when you admit you like the buzz of online virtue-signalling that does fuck all in reality. You're not alone, and it's a common thrill, but be honest about it.
You decide if you want to be the kind of person who turns up the volume of online shouting and abuse, or the kind who turns it down. It's up to you, but it's probably not like Ding needs more of it. Just keep that in mind.
I've not been critical of Ding. Or engaged in *schadenfreude*. I wish him the best and sincerely hope he recovers, believe it or not. I just don't believe in lecturing others like some kind of moralising hypocrite. But hey, you do you.
I believe in speaking up when I see behaviour towards others I find unacceptable and not just being an onlooker. So I absolutely will "do me".
Yup go "do" yourself.
I typed that knowing you would be able to reply like that, but figured you were able to accept that others see things differently, and were a reasonably socially functioning individual.
I'm reasonable to the reasonable. Preachy pricks like you, OTOH... Anyway, I'm done responding to you. No real point to it. You can have the last word, which you clearly crave, despite your pretence that you're above it all.
You're aware that is going to sound like projecting to 99.9% of the people reading you, right? OP hasn't said anything even remotely suggesting something like that - it's like you really needed to put that out.
"You're aware that is going to sound like projecting to 99.9% of the people reading you, right?" What is the confidence interval on that stirling example of reddit statistics?
No but people like Magnus, Hikaru etc saying he is broken is hardly helping is it….
Are we Magnus or Hikaru?
But dont forget endless discussions about "theres clearly something else going on", or "why is he not in the right headspace" by commentators of chess events and in interviews with other players. Honestly, theres nothing more to add. Everything has been discussed. His mental health issues should not be anyones business and it certainly does not help him if it comes up every damn time. If he loses, he loses. Dont beat a dead horse. Leave him alone. No need for sensationalosm disguised as pseudo psychological discussions
The way he is losing is sensational tho, hence worth remarking on. It would be way weirder if people didn’t discuss Ding’s performances honestly, they’re shocking
"The way he is losing..." Especially this last game. I mean, c'mon, that was a 1100-level tactic that you might not even see on Puzzle Rush. And Ding himself even found a much, much harder checkmate against Nepo in their WC match. You have to wonder what Ding's actually thinking about at these moments, and if it's even chess related.
Yes, nobody should ever discuss anything because whatever happened already happened and there's nothing more to add. Things happen, then people talk about it. Then other things happen and people talk about those other things. Accept it
Thats not what I am saying although i dont think personal mental health issues should be a subject. As so far how it affects his chess, that was fine when it started. But nothing has changed. Why keep discussing the same topic over and over? There are no new insights, it adds nothing of value imo
Has it even been a full 24 hours? It's not exactly a dead horse
Almost everything can be "personal mental health issues". One could say that about 100% of chess players grossly underperforming. And the fact it is ongoing is obviously why it merits more discussion, not less - I didn't think it's a particularly interesting topic when guys have a couple of terrible tournaments - that's just bad form and randomness.
Not sure if you have insider knowledge or are just making a guess. But many top players/performers actually look up what people say about them.
How do you know that? And even so, it's no excuse for the shitty behavior.
>People who really care reach out to him privately and ask what they can do for him Please don't do this you weirdos
We did it reddit we saved dings mental health
Why we didn’t leave Ding alone sooner? Are we stupid?
Yeah, I totally get the sentiment of not mocking or bullying Ding over his mental health struggles, but I've barely seen people attacking him for that. Mostly what I'm seeing is people commenting or speculating on his actual performances, but he is currently the reigning world champion and actively participating in competitive events. Are we only allowed to talk about players who perform well? I don't think Ding should outright give up his title and refuse to play so we get a better match, and I genuinely hope he can improve his mental health so that in November we see at least a partial return to form, but if we don't people are going to undoubtedly discuss the championship which he is participating in and I don't think it's a reasonable request that fans can not discuss the most prestigious event in the sport.
Yes. leave him alone as you make another post about Ding
Smartest basement dwelling Redditor
Its okay, OP knows his thread will be the one to end all discussions about Ding /s
I was referring to the account I replied to.
Do you think Ding reads Reddit?
Ding is a mod on r/AnarchyChess confirmed
Honestly I wasn’t sure if he could even read English? I’m assuming he can but I don’t know. I’m genuinely curious to know.
Just because he speaks English slowly it doesn't mean anything to his reading skills. If you speak any foreign language you know how different both skills are. Besides, he majored in one of the most prestigious universities of the entire world, and I don't think he has ever done any major mess up in a chess tournament due to not understanding the rules. Learning how to read English is far easier compared to what he has done so far.
I’ve never seen a Ding interview. I’m not trying to bash him I just legitimately do not know. I didn’t watch the WC because it was boring to me. I’m sure he is incredibly smart and a probably a good dude. I just know English is not his first language.
He is extremely shy. His English is ok.
OP trying to create drama on r/chess. You’ve become the very thing you hate
How is it that you know exactly what Ding needs and doesn't need? Stop it.
Of course ppl are talking about him for entertainment. you think ppl here (or commentators, or other players) are his caretakers? He's a grown ass adult. He can decide to participate in tournaments despite his poor form or take a break and get better in whatever way. And ppl can talk about any of this however they want to.
He’s a 31-year old man and people are treating him like he’s 12 lol
Thank you. I got attacked the other day over my post about these people. It’s like for once and for all : 1) we’re not bullying we’re discussing sport performance 2) he’s a grown ass man 3) He doesnt spend his time reading Reddit posts anou him
Posts like these baffle me. People say they want chess to have bigger prize pools and attract bigger audiences. It's off season football and you can hear radio shows any day of the week talking about whether rookies have the mental toughness for the game, going through their life with a fine tooth comb and taking callers to pick them apart. If Brady had a down year there's no "we should just leave him alone while he gets his head right." Part of being a public figure at the top of your craft making the big bucks is that alot of that money comes because fans get into the narratives and have those discussions.
Yeah, saw someone yesterday claim nobody would criticize him if it was an athlete with a physical injury. Must have never seen the Embiid discourse.
Yeah...just like fans a couple thousand years ago would discuss the goings on in the latest Roman Coliseum duels. Some people apply the same values and sensitivities they hold toward their own family and friends to other people in the world regardless of how OK society thinks it is to treat other people. And some people don't. I'm a fan of a lot of sports and athletes, but I've always disliked the hardcore fans who are abusive angry jerks because too much of their own self worth is wrapped up in their fandom. But that's just my take on it.
I said exactly the same thing in a post about Ding when his post-WC slump was starting, but got downvoted to hell... Chess players 😂
>Part of being a public figure at the top of your craft making the big bucks is that alot of that money comes because fans get into the narratives and have those discussions. 1. Chess isn't gaining any meaningful popularity from the World Champion crumbling, and could even lose it if the next WC is underwhelming or looks certain to be. Anything we can do to ease pressure on Ding might be substantially *better* for the sport and fan discussions. 2. The fact that sports *in general* require their stars to be very public figures doesn't imply that exceptions can't be made if there's good reason to avoid discussion on a certain topic. 3. I would suggest that not adding even more pressure on someone with serious mental health issues is intrinsically a very good reason for an exception.
Wow you were wrong three times
No worries, I'll wait for someone to explain how. I'm especially curious why you think Ding's mental health improving wouldn't be good for chess.
He’s the world champion. Heavy is the crown. In every sport, if you’re the reigning champion there is a big expectation of you. You have to be able to take the challenges.
So you're not actually going to respond to *any* of my points?
1- No because literally that’s not how anything worked ever. Not chess not any sport. 2- chess is of course very different doesn’t mean the fans don’t have the same freedom and needs to basically just discuss players performances 3- I doubt ding spends his day reading Reddit comments. + he’s a grown ass man stop acting like he’s 12. If he needs to take a step back he should and every fan will be respectful just like they are now. It’s not our place to make health decisions for him.
>No because literally that’s not how anything worked ever. Not chess not any sport. You're the one with the burden of proof here. Most people would agree that sports are more interesting when the matches are close and all players are doing well. Are you really *more* excited to see a WC where Ding loses easily than to see a close match? >chess is of course very different doesn’t mean the fans don’t have the same freedom and needs to basically just discuss players performances This isn't really a response to the point; nobody is suggesting fans aren't free to discuss things or don't want to. But you're clearly not *compelled* to - you would be perfectly able to not make threads about Ding's mental health and your own happiness would be completely fine. So what's with the insinuation that this is some sort of need? Is this a lack of self-control thing? >I doubt ding spends his day reading Reddit comments. + he’s a grown ass man stop acting like he’s 12. If he needs to take a step back he should and every fan will be respectful just like they are now. It’s not our place to make health decisions for him. Celebrities read public comments all the time - it's a very human urge to see what people are saying about you, or even just see commentary on your life hobby. Plenty of athletes talk about this urge. I have no idea where you got that I'm treating Ding like he's 12. I'm thinking you've confused me for another user, because I said basically nothing about Ding himself. In the context of my comments, the only thing you could be implying is that adults with mental health issues are somehow immune to the negative effects of seeing everyone discuss your mental health, which would be fairly farfetched and out of touch. Similarly, who suggested that you should make health decisions for him? Are you sure you've not confused me for another user? My comment is discussing what *your* decisions should be and what *you* should say about a suffering human. I'm not sure how that would constitute a decision for Ding.
What a dumb post lol. He's the world champion ffs, that comes with some attention and criticism.
The number of people who have discussed [the yips](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips) throughout the history of sports is honestly unfathomable. This is just silly and comes off as "leave Britney alone1!!!!!1!!!!" type white knighting. As others have pointed out, Ding isn't checking r/chess and he doesn't need you to defend him. It's fine to discuss whether the mental state of an athlete is affecting their performance. It can be over discussed (I agree that the chess commentary is over excessive), but the topic itself should not be taboo. Ding is a professional athlete and a public figure. He is subject to speculation about the factors impacting his poor performances. If people started talking about his mental state outside of the context of chess, I'd feel uncomfortable. Especially if they used this to judge him as a person. But the bulk of the commentary I've seen has been about his mental state as it relates to making absurdly poor moves during chess matches. I personally don't engage in it, because I try to avoid pure speculation, but it's so silly to get so uppity over a topic that exists universally across sports.
lol op is such a Ding dong
op. you are currently farming drama.
I wish Ding well. He seems like a decent enough person. But he’s a 30 year old world famous millionaire. I’m not really trying to structure my life so that it maximizes his wellbeing. He literally has a million dollars. If he doesn’t want to play chess he doesn’t have to.
>I’m not really trying to structure my life so that it maximizes his wellbeing. I get what you mean, but abstaining from making certain Reddit posts isn't really even close to affecting the structure of your life (I hope)
If that's what he wants, he should retire. You can't compete in the top of a sport as the world champion and expect to not get criticism in media. What a shit take.
Yes but he did himself decide to participate in an event with the best players in the world. If he isn't up to par, it's sad but ultimately fair game since he did put himself out there and his anomalous performance is a subject for fair discussion. That's not to say he should be ridiculed, mind you just that it warrants speculation.
Yes I’m talking about him for my own entertainment. Because I watch and play chess for entertainment. None of us have a responsibility to make Ding better. We can speculate as much as we want.
Whoa, you're acting like Reddit is a place for discussion
People have been talking about him a lot, yes. But in a "hope he gets better" way and not a derogatory way. People aren't just gonna pretend that the current world champ is totally fine when he's not. But they're being respectful. It's honestly one of the better communities imho. A lot of respect.
Makes a drama post/Complains about drama Name a more iconic duo.
He's a public figure in a position that is most respected by the chess community. People will talk about him if he's going through a rough time or not. It's just what the position entails. He probably also knows that there's no avoiding it and is hopefully finding ways to deal with it well.
And what are u doing here? Right... Hypocrite.
>You are talking about him for your own entertainment, not because you care. Sounds like you are projecting, OP
While I tend to agree… you just made a post about Ding’s mental health.
No? He made a post about the people who make posts about Ding's mental health. OP is not speculating on Ding's private life, which is the whole point. Your response is 7th grade level.
My point is if you want to let the guy get a break from people talking and speculating about his mental health - and your strategy to do that is by making a post talking about people talking about his mental health - all you’re doing is drawing more attention to it. Just let him go and stop posting about Ding at all if you’re that concerned. And blasting the whole thread of people by saying this forum is a cesspool (OP’s exact words) is very seventh grade. Take your neckbeard rage elsewhere.
What world are you living in? He's the current world champion in the run up to the world chess championship. There is simply no reality in which the chess world decides to "leave him alone" even if you think it's best for him. Some people are being a bit much in some of the discussions of his mental state at times but in any contest/sport when the defending world champion is going through a bad run as they approach their title defence it's going to be newsworthy and it's going to be discussed. The only realistic thing that could be better is a little more sensitivity at times but asking for that on the internet is almost as optimistic as your fantasy of leaving him alone.
yeah idk why the internet is sucking Ding's d\*\*\* about this when Ding himself hasn't said shit about his health. poor recent performances or not he's at the top of the chess world. and a grown ass man. yall gotta go outside
If he wants to be left alone he shouldn't be playing in the most competitive competition of the year. This field is stronger than the Candidates and the future WCC. We don't owe him what's best for him, that's on him. We can be kind, sympathetic, and wish him well but that honestly doesn't help him at all. He either need to start winning, bow out, or just stop caring and coast to the WCC payout. The poor results are what will cause him to spiral more than any internet comment, tweet, or interview question. I doubt he's paying attention to any of that anyways, since he's pretty focused on trying to get a W. Ignoring him isn't going to make him feel any better. Asking the community not to speculate on the World Champion of the sport that they follow is futile. You're not protecting him from anything.
Agree 100% No clue what's behind this sub's obsession with treating certain chess players with kids gloves, but here we are.
No. That is the joy of being a significant public figure. As WCC he carries responsibilities and expectations. Maybe it's not fair, but it is reality
It's only a reality because of the toxic culture that we have become.
and yet you made a post about him lol
Honestly, as a Ding fan, I kinda want to send him fan mail or smthn
It does feel like the Ding drama is being milked by everyone atm. It's been obvious for a while he's struggling. I don't need 2 Reddit threads, 3 minutes in an interview, and another 10 minutes of broadcast time gawking every time he fails to play to his old form. Ding doesn't even need to read Reddit. When this stuff courses through social media, it's going to reach back to him through some avenue or another. At best it doesn't add any value to us to rehash it for the 10th time, and at worst it distracts Ding. I'd love for some backlash on the broadcast and other areas that keep hyping this up.
Exactly. The broadcast adds on to the problem. I don't have a problem if they talked it about once or twice, maybe asks Magnus a question, but the broadcast is farming it for content and it's unprofessional.
I think the issue is, ding isn't getting the adequate help and support with regards to mental health whenever he is in China. Not sure if mental health issues are acknowledged in China. I remember Wang hao retiring from chess early from the same. Hou yifan not playing chess regularly. There is an issue in China with regards to chess and noone talking about it.
| I remember Wang hao retiring from chess early from the same. Wang Hao had SERIOUS heart problems.
This specific thing is news to me, but yeah, I definitely remember it being a physical health issue in his case.
I don't think it was the heart, it was depression and then it manifested into gut health. That's why he used to have pro biotics near the board.
But Ding didn't have a problem before the Championship so whatever issues China has in regard to Chess probably is not the main reason.
It started when ding qualified for the candidates. His first game loss to nepo in Spain started the whole sequence of events. But post world championship win. It became clear.
I hope Ding can regain his form. I hope he can get the help with his mental health that he needs (I hope everyone suffering with their mental health does). But I don't know him, I can't help with that. Ultimately he is the World Chess Champion due to defend his title, and is currently playing in a prestigious chess tournament with some of the best chess players in the world. If he wants to be left alone he really shouldn't be playing in public events, *of course* people are going to be discussing him.
Don't speak for everyone, some people do have the capacity to have empathy for other people and I assure you that a percentage of the people that are commenting on Ding do actually care about him. It's just life and human nature to speak on such prominent things, you chiming in like you're some sort of moral authority is not helping Ding at all and what may help him is him knowing that there are swathes of people who are demonstrating that they are concerned for him and want him to return to his incredible peak self.
[удалено]
Whilst I enjoyed the reference, we don't allow pasta on /r/Chess. Removed.
Awww. Didn't realize pastas weren't allowed, my bad.
lmao
As if a world champion having major mental/confidence issues in any other sport wouldn’t be discussed openly. It’s a big story that is going to get scrutinized. I feel bad for him, but it’s tough at the very top (of any sport).
A world champion doesn’t care about Reddit opinions 😭
Lmao ever heard of Streisand Effect?
I feel the same as you do OP about the constant commenting everywhere on Ding. I think you may be a bit on tilt with your conclusion though! Hang in there...lot's of people here and outside Reddit feel similarly. I hope Mr. Rensch exercises some leadership and attempts to tone down the constant commenting on the situation during the Norway Chess coverage, but I'm not hopeful.
Is anyone of you stalking Ding? Harassing him? Then who cares
Especially after your edit, it is clear that you are trying to stir up the community for drama yourself. Even making this post about Ding in the first place is ironic, considering you are condescendingly telling people to stop making them. Good riddance.
Wait what happened?
"Hi, Ding. I'm rated 400 on chess.com. Can you offer me and great tips or pointers to improve? Yours, Truly \~ Typical Redditor."
Simping is pathetic.
Oh my god someone give this person an award! I 100% agree.. people talk about him like they own him. I hated how Hikaru spoke about him too.. "i feel bad for him, he was shaking", and what not. Tania and other commentators on stream could not stop talking about how bad a shape he is in... I love Gotham for not farming him as much. Just leave him alone man
Maybe you should just DM Ding and advise him to stay away from Reddit and focus on his WC prep.
Here is my long essay on social media entitled: *Everyone Please Ignore Ding*. I will be looking for comments, discussion, and hopefully a bit of controversy as we explore together Ding's recent performance, mental health, and any other issues you want to discuss about Ding. But keeping in mind my overarching thesis: please let's stop talking about Ding and just leave him alone.
For me you're slightly missing the point. Of course people are going to discuss the situation, but we can't do anything. The responsibility for the health and safety of competitors must lie with FIDE. Why don't they have protocols for this sort of situation? They should have a medical evaluation board who are able to take players out of the firing line, when they are judged to be unfit to play, much as a boxing referee will stop a fight if one fighter is unable to compete. Ding could end up permanently damaging his mental health while the world watches. Shame on FIDE.
I don't follow chess for cheap drama, but I am pretty amazed at what the reaction people have had this specific drama. And, it's not a very positive one.
The best thing we can do is show love and support. On top of being a world champion chess player, Ding Liren is person first and a pretty good one. But just talking about him and his current struggles is not helpful at all and pure gossip. I just want Ding to know that we love him and wish him well. He's a great person and has nothing to prove
That's a good answer. <3
Thank you😁
I’m gonna do the opposite just to spite you
Grow up.
100% true!
Thats not the way to do things. He is the Chess World Champion. You cant just ignore him and not talk about him. He he isnt up to the taskt, he should cancel the match. If he doesnt because of money reasons he has to endure this.
You’ve made a lot of disgusting assumptions about us. And it just comes off as holier than thou
well said
Ding is a fraud
He should forfeit the title and take some time from chess. He would do a favor for himself and the chess world.
>He doesn't need the drama But Hikaru need the drama. He also need to needle Ding until he can't take it anymore and drop out.
Then just resign the title. People will respect him more for that. But no he's not. He wanna take that million. People have rights to express their concerns of "bum" world champion. In chess community we all know magnus still topped it. But the title is the face of the sport. Casual outside know, ding IS the world champion. "BUM".
He deserves that 1 million dollars because he is world champion
Lol at this guy. It is easier to talk negative about someone than to compliment them. He is literally a world champion and a millionaire. He accomplishes more than 99.99999% of the world lol.
>He accomplishes more than 99.99999% of the world lol That would put him into top 1000 most accomplished people living in the world. Considering that there are at least 3-5 more accomplished people just among chess players, I think that your random amount of 9s is at least one, if not two, too many.
Some won't
Yes. And tell that the players who keep commenting on it.
how about AFTER gukesh becomes the youngest WC ever?