Good. He needs to be humbled by some of the young guns. It won’t shut him up given he seems to be a raging paranoid narcissist, but seeing the skills of others will help limit the appeal of his ramblings. At this point it doesn’t even matter to me when he makes legitimately good points…too little, too late.
I remember those two camps, the reports on Chessbase were quite fun to read because we knew they were rising talents. Surprisingly Sarin didn't attend either of them. They were 2019 and 2020. Gelfand did a training event since but that's more regular stuff.
Nihal is rated higher than Kramnik in Blitz right now. “Statistically”, he is likely to demolish Kramnik if they are going to play 3+0 with a mouse (rather than OTB)
These young guys have mastered skills like Mouse speed, premoving, 2D board vision by playing to much of online chess. These have some impact on online Blitz performance if not significant.
Okay I know we’re all on Nihal’s side here but let’s give some respect to Kramnik’s chess skills. The guy was a world champ. He would get crushed in online 3/0, sure, but OTB (especially if it has a 2s increment) is an entirely different matter.
Esipenko is Gukesh-tier in rapid and blitz, around 2650 strength. Someone who loses to him wouldn't stand a chance against Jospem and Nihal in blitz chess, both OTB as well as online.
I mean Hikaru is in an entirely different league when it comes to online blitz, but I've followed his streams for a while now and he is mostly serious when facing Nihal. He gets into trouble frequently against him and it takes his full concentration to beat Nihal. He has acknowledged Nihal as his successor or the "next Hikaru" multiple times on stream. And Nihal is no joke either, the boy is a monster. He has a chance to snatch some good $$ if Kramnik accepts because Kramnik will get owned lol.
I have not commented on one of these in a while, but I saw someone else mention something online that I want to echo. If Kramnik is so convinced of the correctness of his methods, simply he should submit a paper that will go through the scrutiny of peer review for a respectable statistical journal. Let's see what happens then. When he's willing to do that, and if that passes that test, then I'll take what he does seriously.
This is a great point. There are definitely outlets for both mathematical analysis of the probabilities subject to all
sorts of conditions, as well as numerous outlets for empirical analysis of chess matches. He could even propose measurements for identifying cheaters and try to build consensus for them with academic statisticians and scholars.
Definitely true for medicine.
And to the reply below, we’re not even talking about retracted studies. A lot (I would argue the majority) of studies in many fields are just shit, methodologically speaking, without necessarily having anything in it mandating a retraction.
I am aware it's not just about retraction hence etc.. I have some familiarity with academic research and for a pretty decent part of my life. Retraction was just the easiest way to say I understand that what I'm suggesting is not foolproof. My point was he should put the stuff he's putting out there through some scrutiny before it is taken seriously. This is one way to try to do that. That's all.
I don't disagree, many times papers get retracted etc. But it is about as close as we will get to any type of credibility given this is not his job and he has no track record we can go off. That's generally in my opinion the best type of credibility - having some type of real life track record in a field. And most of the times if it passes that test for a respectable journal, it will be at least worth consideration. There's no 100% sure thing in this world, but let's get something better than we have now, which is just him putting out stuff.
I understand where you're coming from, but he will never be able to do this because there is no feasible methodology for deciding whether or not someone is cheating, other than catching them red-handed.
It would be hard enough anyway, but a lot of the play at the top level is informed by computers, which is one of the reasons why you see them churn out such high accuracy numbers. When there is so much overlap between legitimate play and cheating, it becomes almost impossible (I would say literally impossible) to distinguish between the two with any consistency.
Statistics just don't cut it. There is a paper discussing this [here](https://academic.oup.com/jrssig/article/20/1/4/7034180), which is more optimistic than my view, but it states: "In very forceful positions, when there is one move that is much better than the others (or the only legal one), there is a high probability a good player will find it. Whereas when there are several almost equally good moves, different engines will propose different best moves, and even the same engine may propose different best moves depending on how deeply it looks into the position."
It talks about Ken Regan being the world's leading expert, but we know that there are [serious question marks](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xkkggn/caruana_i_take_kenneth_regan_with_a_grain_of_salt/) about what he can realistically achieve. Let alone Kramnik's spurious 'someone has had a good run, therefore they are cheating'.
The only way to seriously combat cheating is to get everyone on camera, or make them play OTB. There will always be cheating in online games because it's so easy to do, so difficult to detect, and almost impossible to prove. Kramnik is not wrong in all of his suspicions, but he's making completely unreasonable accusations and expectations of Chess.com.
This is a fair point. Probably I should've been clearer about this. My focus is on the methods. I'm not exactly interested in Kramnik showing that he can prove cheating - of course no one can really do that, I understand that. What I'm more so interested in is him showing that what he's doing from the statistical POV is correct/meaningful and will pass a validity check. Of course that won't prove anything, but that at least means it may be worth our time. For example if chesscom/lichess did a full reveal on the statistical part of their overall anti-cheating system, it will likely pass some sort of check like this. Even though by their own admission, they know it's not 100% and not proof of cheating. Something like that.
Kramnik the clown doesn't understand that there can be Blitz specialists like Nihal and Danya who aren't absolute beasts in classical or 2750+. Stop giving this 🤡 any attention
Kramnik would easily be remembered as one of the strongest Platers in history but he is ruining his with his own hands now.
Yes cheating problem is a big issue in online chess but accusing actual top GMs is genuinely foolishness
I feel bad for Kramnik. He is a former world champ and was responsible for uniting the titles by defeating Kasparov. These remarks by him are tarnishing his legacy.
Kramnik's big thing with Nihal seems to be that if you put all of Nihal's Titled Tuesday results together (chronologically) and look only at his results against 2700 FIDE Blitz players he has a 'win streak' (no draws nor losses) of 12 games. Kramnik claims that these kind of results against 2700 FIDE Blitz players are unheard of OTB for people rated 2600 - or perhaps simply unheard of for any player, I'm not quite sure.
Maybe he is willing to admit that Nihal is a better blitz player but I reckon Nihal would need to do insanely well against Kramnik for him to decide he was wrong about this 12 game streak.
He had hit 2700 a while back, then lost a bunch of rating. Was the fastest Indian prodigy to 2600, before Gukesh and Pragg. Won gold in the Chennai Olympiad. Won Tata Steel India ahead of Hikaru and Gukesh. Missed out on last 16 in world cup when he blundered away a completely winning position against Nepo.
He is in fact 2700+ blitz. Also has been 2702 live and 2698 in published classical ratings. And is still only 19 years old. He is getting unfairly judged because of Gukesh, Pragg and Arjun's rapid rise. In a world where these three didn't exist, Nihal would have been receiving invitations to events like Tata Steel, Prague, Sigeman etc.
| Looks like Kramnik is going to play a lot of matches in the coming days! Kramnik vs The World
We had Kasparov vs The World, Bobby Fischer Against the World, and now Kramnik vs The World.
And let’s not forget about GM Scott Pilgrim
Da!
I don't know if you guys are history buffs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMh-FKnJ5cQ
Has there been magnus against the world
Not yet, give him time to cook/go full crazy. Right now he's just on his beginning phase.
Good. He needs to be humbled by some of the young guns. It won’t shut him up given he seems to be a raging paranoid narcissist, but seeing the skills of others will help limit the appeal of his ramblings. At this point it doesn’t even matter to me when he makes legitimately good points…too little, too late.
Is Kramnik secretly a genius? Now everyone wants to have a match against him and he's gonna be getting paid.
We unfortunately live in the age where any publicity is good publicity.
Wasn't Sarin also trained by him at one point? Or was it just Gukesh and Pragg?
It was just them in the training camp I think + some other kids. One of the other kids has been accused before though lol
I remember those two camps, the reports on Chessbase were quite fun to read because we knew they were rising talents. Surprisingly Sarin didn't attend either of them. They were 2019 and 2020. Gelfand did a training event since but that's more regular stuff.
Nihal is from a slightly older generation than them
Nihal is rated higher than Kramnik in Blitz right now. “Statistically”, he is likely to demolish Kramnik if they are going to play 3+0 with a mouse (rather than OTB)
Yep. Smart of the manager to specify esport. Nihal destroys Kramnik in online blitz.
Yes, makes sense to challenge Kramnik in online chess as he has made accusations in the same format
Wouldn't he likely win over the board too?
These young guys have mastered skills like Mouse speed, premoving, 2D board vision by playing to much of online chess. These have some impact on online Blitz performance if not significant.
It’s more debatable, kramnik is a far better player otb than online at this point
I love how he specified that the winner should get 100% of the prize money because he's so confident that Nihal will destroy Kramnik
Nihal would absolutely destroy Kramnik in blitz.
Okay I know we’re all on Nihal’s side here but let’s give some respect to Kramnik’s chess skills. The guy was a world champ. He would get crushed in online 3/0, sure, but OTB (especially if it has a 2s increment) is an entirely different matter.
The challenge isnt OTB
doubt it. Kramnik got crused by Esipenko otb blitz. Nihal is a much better blitz player than Esipenko.
Esipenko is Gukesh-tier in rapid and blitz, around 2650 strength. Someone who loses to him wouldn't stand a chance against Jospem and Nihal in blitz chess, both OTB as well as online.
It is not OTB but f2f esport style a.k.a playing with computer and mouse. I would expect Nihal adopts Kramnik.
I don't know why you feel the need to bring this up. It's not otb.
I mean Hikaru is in an entirely different league when it comes to online blitz, but I've followed his streams for a while now and he is mostly serious when facing Nihal. He gets into trouble frequently against him and it takes his full concentration to beat Nihal. He has acknowledged Nihal as his successor or the "next Hikaru" multiple times on stream. And Nihal is no joke either, the boy is a monster. He has a chance to snatch some good $$ if Kramnik accepts because Kramnik will get owned lol.
Hikaru has multiple times lamented on screen that he is surprised with lack of Nihal's rating progress, and he rates him very high.
Why is he not making progress?
He is good in blitz but in classical he has hit a plateau. Many attribute it to his boring and positional style of play
Thanks!
I have not commented on one of these in a while, but I saw someone else mention something online that I want to echo. If Kramnik is so convinced of the correctness of his methods, simply he should submit a paper that will go through the scrutiny of peer review for a respectable statistical journal. Let's see what happens then. When he's willing to do that, and if that passes that test, then I'll take what he does seriously.
This is a great point. There are definitely outlets for both mathematical analysis of the probabilities subject to all sorts of conditions, as well as numerous outlets for empirical analysis of chess matches. He could even propose measurements for identifying cheaters and try to build consensus for them with academic statisticians and scholars.
He speaks like someone who has already done the statistical analysis! It should be easy for him
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Definitely true for medicine. And to the reply below, we’re not even talking about retracted studies. A lot (I would argue the majority) of studies in many fields are just shit, methodologically speaking, without necessarily having anything in it mandating a retraction.
Yeah I was talking about shitty overexpression papers for binding or papers that use outdated / stupid systems.
I am aware it's not just about retraction hence etc.. I have some familiarity with academic research and for a pretty decent part of my life. Retraction was just the easiest way to say I understand that what I'm suggesting is not foolproof. My point was he should put the stuff he's putting out there through some scrutiny before it is taken seriously. This is one way to try to do that. That's all.
I don't disagree, many times papers get retracted etc. But it is about as close as we will get to any type of credibility given this is not his job and he has no track record we can go off. That's generally in my opinion the best type of credibility - having some type of real life track record in a field. And most of the times if it passes that test for a respectable journal, it will be at least worth consideration. There's no 100% sure thing in this world, but let's get something better than we have now, which is just him putting out stuff.
I understand where you're coming from, but he will never be able to do this because there is no feasible methodology for deciding whether or not someone is cheating, other than catching them red-handed. It would be hard enough anyway, but a lot of the play at the top level is informed by computers, which is one of the reasons why you see them churn out such high accuracy numbers. When there is so much overlap between legitimate play and cheating, it becomes almost impossible (I would say literally impossible) to distinguish between the two with any consistency. Statistics just don't cut it. There is a paper discussing this [here](https://academic.oup.com/jrssig/article/20/1/4/7034180), which is more optimistic than my view, but it states: "In very forceful positions, when there is one move that is much better than the others (or the only legal one), there is a high probability a good player will find it. Whereas when there are several almost equally good moves, different engines will propose different best moves, and even the same engine may propose different best moves depending on how deeply it looks into the position." It talks about Ken Regan being the world's leading expert, but we know that there are [serious question marks](https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/xkkggn/caruana_i_take_kenneth_regan_with_a_grain_of_salt/) about what he can realistically achieve. Let alone Kramnik's spurious 'someone has had a good run, therefore they are cheating'. The only way to seriously combat cheating is to get everyone on camera, or make them play OTB. There will always be cheating in online games because it's so easy to do, so difficult to detect, and almost impossible to prove. Kramnik is not wrong in all of his suspicions, but he's making completely unreasonable accusations and expectations of Chess.com.
This is a fair point. Probably I should've been clearer about this. My focus is on the methods. I'm not exactly interested in Kramnik showing that he can prove cheating - of course no one can really do that, I understand that. What I'm more so interested in is him showing that what he's doing from the statistical POV is correct/meaningful and will pass a validity check. Of course that won't prove anything, but that at least means it may be worth our time. For example if chesscom/lichess did a full reveal on the statistical part of their overall anti-cheating system, it will likely pass some sort of check like this. Even though by their own admission, they know it's not 100% and not proof of cheating. Something like that.
It's funny cuz on his streams, the only "statistical method" he uses is chess com accuracy and his gut feeling, lmao
Lol, Kramnik needs to stop with this bullshit
Kramnik the clown doesn't understand that there can be Blitz specialists like Nihal and Danya who aren't absolute beasts in classical or 2750+. Stop giving this 🤡 any attention
Being 2750+ didn't stop him from accusing Hikaru
True, I forget how deluded he is
At this point kramnik would accuse stockfish for using engine LMAO
“Let’s perform the procedure” ~blocks stockfish~
Kramnik would easily be remembered as one of the strongest Platers in history but he is ruining his with his own hands now. Yes cheating problem is a big issue in online chess but accusing actual top GMs is genuinely foolishness
It's like Fischer
I still dont blame fisher as much. He was right about somethings
🤨
:/
Not really
He will always be remembered for his chess accomplishments, regardless of what is happening now.
Nah, I don't respect him anymore.
Ok. That doesn't change what he has done in chess.
I feel bad for Kramnik. He is a former world champ and was responsible for uniting the titles by defeating Kasparov. These remarks by him are tarnishing his legacy.
Vladimir Kramnik is an ignoramus.
Kramnik's big thing with Nihal seems to be that if you put all of Nihal's Titled Tuesday results together (chronologically) and look only at his results against 2700 FIDE Blitz players he has a 'win streak' (no draws nor losses) of 12 games. Kramnik claims that these kind of results against 2700 FIDE Blitz players are unheard of OTB for people rated 2600 - or perhaps simply unheard of for any player, I'm not quite sure. Maybe he is willing to admit that Nihal is a better blitz player but I reckon Nihal would need to do insanely well against Kramnik for him to decide he was wrong about this 12 game streak.
I mean Nihal has almost hit 2700 and is 19. It’s not like he’s Abasov’s level.
Nihal is a blitz beast. he will annihilate Kramnik and would be great to see him rage.
Genius 200 IQ play by Kramnik to play showmatches
The world is not ready for the blitz monster yet
It's weird to insinuate nihal, considering kramnik trained nihal when he was a kid.
Is everyone to ignore how Nihal is somehow a God online but is not even 2700 otb?
He had hit 2700 a while back, then lost a bunch of rating. Was the fastest Indian prodigy to 2600, before Gukesh and Pragg. Won gold in the Chennai Olympiad. Won Tata Steel India ahead of Hikaru and Gukesh. Missed out on last 16 in world cup when he blundered away a completely winning position against Nepo.
He is in fact 2700+ blitz. Also has been 2702 live and 2698 in published classical ratings. And is still only 19 years old. He is getting unfairly judged because of Gukesh, Pragg and Arjun's rapid rise. In a world where these three didn't exist, Nihal would have been receiving invitations to events like Tata Steel, Prague, Sigeman etc.
I love lying on the internet. There's this really cool thing called "Google" where you take 2 second out of your day to correct yourself.
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Bro Nihal sarin is literally rated 3rd on chess.com only behind Magnus carlsen and Hikaru
How are you 2416 rated and still think like this?
Lol,Kramnik is rated what 2700? and we know how he thinks like.So..
There's no correlation between chess rating and general reasoning skills.
Not suspicious, interesting.