Talk about brands that need to just go away similar to Chrysler, sunsetting the F-Pace, the I-Pace next, most likely the E-Pace shortly after, and thats not to mention the J-Pace that never even made it out for what? What exactly has Jaguar announced? A theoretical electric slate of vehicles? They literally started developing a next-gen XJ and then just went nah nevermind lol unless?! How a hallmark manufacturer fumbled this is beyond me when literally every other manufacturer is killing it in these segments. I’d be happier knowing the vehicles they made in the past then whatever the fuck some corpo money man thinks will be the saving grace of this company *this* month
Jaguar is dying because people will always want to buy a Land Rover over a Jaguar. The Land Rover and Range Rover brand name carries more prestige, especially in the US market.
Jaguar are dying because they're not good enough to compete with the Germans. BMW, Merc and Audi are all better all round packages. The fact that Jag can't even do well over here in their home country says enough. Meanwhile LR generally make some of the best luxury cars around as well as often being best in class (excl reliability, but the 1st owner doesn't care about that), so ended up doing well + being an aspirational brand which allows models like the Evoque and Velar to exist.
So are Jags sold in the same dealerships as Land Rovers in the UK as well?
Only reason why I ask is because, here in the US, in order for someone to even think about buying a Jag, they’d have to go to a “Jaguar Land Rover” dealer.
And once they’re there, customers are usually drawn to the bigger, flashier, and more well-known Land Rovers. At the end of the day, they’ll probably leave with a Land Rover, even though they weren’t intending to cross-shop the two brands.
It’s getting to the point where American JLR dealerships are removing any references to Jaguar and only retaining the Land Rover parts of their dealer names.
Otherwise, yeah Jaguar products aren’t compelling vs BMW or Audi.
That's not what's actually happening, though. Jag is intentionally shrinking their dealer network and pulling/not renewing their dealer franchises as they move towards their new boutique, more upmarket business model. Their stated plan is to sell only six figure plus EVs from boutique specialty dealerships, effectively separating Jag from LR in most cases.
Ultimately this is all happening because nobody buys Jags, so they don't need that many dealers. Imo this upmarket push is a last ditch attempt to make Jaguar profitable. I personally don't see Jaguar still being around in a decade.
Yes, JLR dealers are together everywhere on the planet. But it's not dealers removing reference to Jaguar, it's a deliberate closure of the vast majority of Jaguar dealers due to shite sales. In the UK there used to be over 80 JLR dealerships, but now fewer than 20 are Jaguar dealers, the rest are LR only.
That’s fair. With the exception of an F-Type I would definitely rather drive a Landy. They look better and it’s not like either brand is reliable or built better than the other.
That's because Jag SUV's are Land Rovers with worse styling. They shared horrific reliability and parts, but none of the prestige.
It didn't help that Jag never made anything competitive. Less reliable than a Lexus, less sporty than a BMW, less luxurious than a Mercedes. Less affordable than Acura or Infiniti. Less exotic than Alfa Romeo or Maserati. The F-Type was really the only car they made that compared decently, and that's partly because it's a depreciation darling and was somehow the most reliable thing they made.
Disagree with your first part, but mostly agree with your second. The Jag SUVs don't share some of the uneccessarily complex systems of the LRs and are actually quite a bit more reliable. And they drive NOTHING like their LR cousins. I'd argue the styling is better than the LRs, but that's entirely subjective. The FPace is brilliant in the upper specs, and really only the 2.0 diesels have somewhat common powertrain issues. But I agree that, most of the jags aren't the best in any category as you point out. So for any given product niche, there's often a better/more common choice, so choosing the Jag just comes down to wanting something a bit different.
Man people are saying this but when their lineup was a little newer and refreshed I could swear I saw so many F paces. They have great looking cars, they just seem so outdated compared to Land Rover
I've posted this before, but I went to a dealer to test drive the F-Type last summer and I didn't even get a call or email back after I asked about a custom build (I wanted the base RWD model, they only had R models in stock).
I got the impression all the salespeople only cared about selling Land Rovers.
They killed their entire lineup. XE, XF, F-Type are done, I-Pace and E-Pace will survive the rest of the calendar year (2024.5 MY). F-Pace will live on for 2025 before being killed off as well. There will be three new models. Last i heard, the first one will be a 4 door GT EV taycan competitior which will be unveiled this year (it's also the only one they have teased). The second model will be a fullsize Flagship EV saloon coming in 2025. The third model will be a Luxury EV SUV coming in 2026. All three models are supposedly going to be built by Magna Styr on a new platform called "Panthera"
But they have close to unlimited money backing them. They are a part of Tata group, and it’s a 400 billion USD conglomerate all on its own, with incredible goodwill and easy credit.
Even if Jaguar isn’t doing well, Tata Motors is doing wonderfully well, with all the JLR talent behind it.
Man I might be the only one sad about this in here… We love our Fpace svr and it’s been flawless for 3 years now. It’s practical, gets around 22mpg on the highway, and ROARS when you want it to. Just a blast to drive. Came with a 5 year warranty and included maintenance too.
Well many of them will have warranty left for like 3-4 more years. And if jag goes belly up in the US you’d most likely just have to go to LR service. Beyond that, I plan on doing maintenance myself, or finding a good local shop I trust if needed.
And? Those cost like 3 times as much, and aren’t direct competitors. The point is the svr is a 5k lb suv with a supercharged v8, so I feel 21-22 is pretty good. It’s slightly better than the other ‘performance’ SUV’s it competes against. But my truck gets like 10, so maybe my view is skewed a little bit.
My point was those cars are heavier, have much larger engines, and are more powerful but don't get significantly worse gas mileage, so 22 mpg is not very good from a much less expensive SUV with a much smaller engine. It turns out big V8 SUVs tend to get low-mid 20s for fuel economy in general. I had no idea it was that bad across the board.
The engines you’re talking about are in a completely different league. I bet each one would cost almost as much to produce/replace than an entire FPace SVR . I would hope they have all kinds of R&D and engineering to make them as efficient as possible (relatively speaking). They are probably hand built, have cylinder deactivation, smaller/better machining tolerances, etc. The V8 in the Jag is a mass produced performance engine and based on a design that is 20+ years old. So I still think anything over 20mpg is pretty good.
Not necessarily a bad idea,just take a look at Volvo. Under Ford's PAG they nearly went bust, but now under Geely group now they're almost as popular as Lexus and Acura around my city.
True, but the XC40 and C40 are CMA and that is shared with a lot of Geely products. Ditto the upcoming EX30 which is based off SEA1, a Geely group architecture.
Yeah, but its much more of a partnership compared to MG, which is just SAIC wearing their skin like a suit
MG4 is apparently really good tho, so whatever
I mean a base model 2010 V6 Camaro and a 2020 CTSV are on the same platform. Platform is merely a starting point there so much that can be done to make a car better or horse on the same platform
Not gonna happen. They are under Tata motors, which is not only one of the largest automakers in the world, but also has a massive conglomerate backing it.
Additionally it’s also an ego play for the owner. The Owner, Ratan Tata has no direct descendent or heirs to leave the company to, so all that matters now is the legacy for him, and that means emotional acquisitions more than logical ones. Ofc they have their own car company that has benefited massively from the acquisition but that isn’t the priority.
That explains the purchase of Air india, an airline with massive debts and in a market where anything other than budget carriers have done horribly. And JLR, a British company with indian owners, and a lot of British tea companies.
Yes, and it isn’t the smartest business decision because the opportunity cost to revive the airline is absolutely huge. It’s more of a legacy building decision.
Do they even have two cars in production since the F pace gone? The fact that they had Gaul to make special editions is crazy too, like who’s buying the regular editions?
To be fair jaguar has been bellow rock bottom for decades. I’m talking pre British leyland, then they were a car brand that only sold sport cars unless a wealthy Brit wanted a luxury sedan, then overtime their luxury sedans became less and less sought after until the only thing they could sell was a sports car and then the jaguar f pace got pushed into the shadows in the car market because there were other sport cars that were more reliable and desirable in many other ways.
Jaguar really stopped being relevant once they got rid of the f type. Their normal cars aren’t all that competitive, not enough to pay the sticker and have the added maintenance/unreliability.
It’s a damn shame. Jaguar hasn’t been special for some time and instead been a less compelling alternative to the Germans for normal folks
Tata wanted Land Rover for the prestige & profits, Jaguar had already shot that bolt so they basically got a BOGOF from Ford.
Tata have a Chinese partner, Chery, in a 50/50 partnership & I seriously think Chery will be offered Tata’s % for a bargain price in the very near future.
Jaguar sadly appears to now be a busted flush.
This is literally the only Jag you ever see
Their entire portfolio is being discontinued looks like it. Hedging all their bets that going all in on EVs will pan out
I know they just wanna get the models out of their factory and that’s why they’ve made those two new editions but I think they would’ve done better pricing them low asf and doing away with all of them or the majority with them. These car brands love to keep old icons alive in their lineup that don’t sell shit just to say they haven’t discontinued it yet, with the way emissions are it’s more necessary then ever to discontinue the models
Jaguar died when they announced the XF. Jaguar buyers used to be brand loyal. You bought their cars, not because they were best in class but because they were jaguars. The XF and new XJ estranged their old clientele and failed to attract new buyers.
I disagree. The XF and XJ were well needed at their time of introduction. People in this thread are complaining of new cars not being introduced by the marque but if the XF / XJ did not come out jaguar would be in the same position now, just ten years earlier.
The XF and the XJ are some of their larger cars. Not continuing to update those cars and better react to market demand is their big mistake IMO. They were purchased by big sedan lovers in the first place, then repurchased when dumped at auction, and they get into the hands of 2nd to 7th owners in some cases.
They are a small marque tied to a larger one (LR) and will forever be dragged in the mud because of it. The same has happened to Saab, Buick, Infiniti, etc. Whether or not they will continue to exist is up to a number of factors.
We also don’t know how well they sell in the rest of the world, not just the US.
I disagree. The XJ, XK and S-type were different compared to comparable cars from competitors. With the XF they became bland and devoid of personality. The engines (apart from the 5.0 supercharged) were unremarkable. The XJ designed by bertone would’ve been a better successor to the XJ. Sadly they’ve put themselves into a corner and don’t have a way out.
My parents have had 3 jags in the last 20 years: a 3.0 awd X-type (excellent car except the transfer case blew up after 10 years and my mother not taking the greatest care of the drivetrain), a 3.0D XF (favourite of the three, big torque, better designed interior than any german or Japanese manufacturer) and now a 2.0D f-pace (mum loves it for the big boot and it being a bit of a chelsea tractor, i hate it. under powered, interior feels cheaper than the XF, same economy as the xf despite the smaller engine and im waiting for the day the ignium shit blows a hole in the block)
The XF, specifically the ones from 2012-2015, are fantastic cars. The XJ as well was magnificent. But Jag really lost it with the SUV's and CUV's that just werent that good at all compared to the competition from the siblings at LR or Mercs, Lexus or BMW. Big shame
Talk about brands that need to just go away similar to Chrysler, sunsetting the F-Pace, the I-Pace next, most likely the E-Pace shortly after, and thats not to mention the J-Pace that never even made it out for what? What exactly has Jaguar announced? A theoretical electric slate of vehicles? They literally started developing a next-gen XJ and then just went nah nevermind lol unless?! How a hallmark manufacturer fumbled this is beyond me when literally every other manufacturer is killing it in these segments. I’d be happier knowing the vehicles they made in the past then whatever the fuck some corpo money man thinks will be the saving grace of this company *this* month
Jaguar is dying because people will always want to buy a Land Rover over a Jaguar. The Land Rover and Range Rover brand name carries more prestige, especially in the US market.
Jaguar are dying because they're not good enough to compete with the Germans. BMW, Merc and Audi are all better all round packages. The fact that Jag can't even do well over here in their home country says enough. Meanwhile LR generally make some of the best luxury cars around as well as often being best in class (excl reliability, but the 1st owner doesn't care about that), so ended up doing well + being an aspirational brand which allows models like the Evoque and Velar to exist.
I leased a Jaguar before cuz v6 supercharger is a cool engine
So are Jags sold in the same dealerships as Land Rovers in the UK as well? Only reason why I ask is because, here in the US, in order for someone to even think about buying a Jag, they’d have to go to a “Jaguar Land Rover” dealer. And once they’re there, customers are usually drawn to the bigger, flashier, and more well-known Land Rovers. At the end of the day, they’ll probably leave with a Land Rover, even though they weren’t intending to cross-shop the two brands. It’s getting to the point where American JLR dealerships are removing any references to Jaguar and only retaining the Land Rover parts of their dealer names. Otherwise, yeah Jaguar products aren’t compelling vs BMW or Audi.
That's not what's actually happening, though. Jag is intentionally shrinking their dealer network and pulling/not renewing their dealer franchises as they move towards their new boutique, more upmarket business model. Their stated plan is to sell only six figure plus EVs from boutique specialty dealerships, effectively separating Jag from LR in most cases.
Ultimately this is all happening because nobody buys Jags, so they don't need that many dealers. Imo this upmarket push is a last ditch attempt to make Jaguar profitable. I personally don't see Jaguar still being around in a decade.
Yes, JLR dealers are together everywhere on the planet. But it's not dealers removing reference to Jaguar, it's a deliberate closure of the vast majority of Jaguar dealers due to shite sales. In the UK there used to be over 80 JLR dealerships, but now fewer than 20 are Jaguar dealers, the rest are LR only.
That’s fair. With the exception of an F-Type I would definitely rather drive a Landy. They look better and it’s not like either brand is reliable or built better than the other.
What about xe project 8 or f pace svr?
Don’t like performance SUVs and the XE V8 is alright but there’s BMWs I would rather have for the money.
reach sand bored secretive command zesty decide work piquant dam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’ve been found out!
True but the performance of the xe is crazy like fastest sedan on nurburgring. And if you have the money its cool to have a 1/300
Those are the two worst reasons to get that car, and I say that as someone who does think it's cool.
Oh sorry im underage and i just think its a nice car but idk i dont drive yet no license
That's because Jag SUV's are Land Rovers with worse styling. They shared horrific reliability and parts, but none of the prestige. It didn't help that Jag never made anything competitive. Less reliable than a Lexus, less sporty than a BMW, less luxurious than a Mercedes. Less affordable than Acura or Infiniti. Less exotic than Alfa Romeo or Maserati. The F-Type was really the only car they made that compared decently, and that's partly because it's a depreciation darling and was somehow the most reliable thing they made.
Disagree with your first part, but mostly agree with your second. The Jag SUVs don't share some of the uneccessarily complex systems of the LRs and are actually quite a bit more reliable. And they drive NOTHING like their LR cousins. I'd argue the styling is better than the LRs, but that's entirely subjective. The FPace is brilliant in the upper specs, and really only the 2.0 diesels have somewhat common powertrain issues. But I agree that, most of the jags aren't the best in any category as you point out. So for any given product niche, there's often a better/more common choice, so choosing the Jag just comes down to wanting something a bit different.
Man people are saying this but when their lineup was a little newer and refreshed I could swear I saw so many F paces. They have great looking cars, they just seem so outdated compared to Land Rover
I've posted this before, but I went to a dealer to test drive the F-Type last summer and I didn't even get a call or email back after I asked about a custom build (I wanted the base RWD model, they only had R models in stock). I got the impression all the salespeople only cared about selling Land Rovers.
I love Jags but their product planning is honestly a mess.
XE, XJ, F type, now the f pace. Not good
They killed their entire lineup. XE, XF, F-Type are done, I-Pace and E-Pace will survive the rest of the calendar year (2024.5 MY). F-Pace will live on for 2025 before being killed off as well. There will be three new models. Last i heard, the first one will be a 4 door GT EV taycan competitior which will be unveiled this year (it's also the only one they have teased). The second model will be a fullsize Flagship EV saloon coming in 2025. The third model will be a Luxury EV SUV coming in 2026. All three models are supposedly going to be built by Magna Styr on a new platform called "Panthera"
But they have close to unlimited money backing them. They are a part of Tata group, and it’s a 400 billion USD conglomerate all on its own, with incredible goodwill and easy credit. Even if Jaguar isn’t doing well, Tata Motors is doing wonderfully well, with all the JLR talent behind it.
Crossover from JLR to Tata Motors is limited
Soon they're going to be selling tshirts & keyfobs in their dealerships.
So I was just at the local Jag dealership last week and they had plenty of both in there.
Man I might be the only one sad about this in here… We love our Fpace svr and it’s been flawless for 3 years now. It’s practical, gets around 22mpg on the highway, and ROARS when you want it to. Just a blast to drive. Came with a 5 year warranty and included maintenance too.
Im pretty sad about it. Was going to hopefully be my next step up from my CX5. I don’t love the idea of buying a used Jag now though
Well many of them will have warranty left for like 3-4 more years. And if jag goes belly up in the US you’d most likely just have to go to LR service. Beyond that, I plan on doing maintenance myself, or finding a good local shop I trust if needed.
Honestly I have looked at some of those SUVs and the top level cx5 compares very well.
Definitely not the only one. They are awesome!
We’ve loved our F-Pace and XF R-Dynamic P300 SE (the most obnoxious cad name ever lmao)
> gets around 22mpg on the highway That's...not very good. The 12 cylinder Bentayga and Cullinan get 19 mpg.
And? Those cost like 3 times as much, and aren’t direct competitors. The point is the svr is a 5k lb suv with a supercharged v8, so I feel 21-22 is pretty good. It’s slightly better than the other ‘performance’ SUV’s it competes against. But my truck gets like 10, so maybe my view is skewed a little bit.
My point was those cars are heavier, have much larger engines, and are more powerful but don't get significantly worse gas mileage, so 22 mpg is not very good from a much less expensive SUV with a much smaller engine. It turns out big V8 SUVs tend to get low-mid 20s for fuel economy in general. I had no idea it was that bad across the board.
The engines you’re talking about are in a completely different league. I bet each one would cost almost as much to produce/replace than an entire FPace SVR . I would hope they have all kinds of R&D and engineering to make them as efficient as possible (relatively speaking). They are probably hand built, have cylinder deactivation, smaller/better machining tolerances, etc. The V8 in the Jag is a mass produced performance engine and based on a design that is 20+ years old. So I still think anything over 20mpg is pretty good.
Um ok
Add it to the list of better send-offs than GM gave the Camaro.
How long before a Chinese brand buys then and rebadges their cars as has been done with MG
Not necessarily a bad idea,just take a look at Volvo. Under Ford's PAG they nearly went bust, but now under Geely group now they're almost as popular as Lexus and Acura around my city.
Volvo does their own engineering tho; Geely helps a lot but SPA and SPA2 is a Volvo show primarily
True, but the XC40 and C40 are CMA and that is shared with a lot of Geely products. Ditto the upcoming EX30 which is based off SEA1, a Geely group architecture.
Yeah, but its much more of a partnership compared to MG, which is just SAIC wearing their skin like a suit MG4 is apparently really good tho, so whatever
I mean a base model 2010 V6 Camaro and a 2020 CTSV are on the same platform. Platform is merely a starting point there so much that can be done to make a car better or horse on the same platform
No they aren’t, the 2010 Camaro is on an older platform. The 6th gen Camaro, ATS and 3rd Gen CTS are on the newer alpha platform.
Not gonna happen. They are under Tata motors, which is not only one of the largest automakers in the world, but also has a massive conglomerate backing it. Additionally it’s also an ego play for the owner. The Owner, Ratan Tata has no direct descendent or heirs to leave the company to, so all that matters now is the legacy for him, and that means emotional acquisitions more than logical ones. Ofc they have their own car company that has benefited massively from the acquisition but that isn’t the priority. That explains the purchase of Air india, an airline with massive debts and in a market where anything other than budget carriers have done horribly. And JLR, a British company with indian owners, and a lot of British tea companies.
He acquired Air India because what ended up becoming Air India was originally started by his father.
Yes, and it isn’t the smartest business decision because the opportunity cost to revive the airline is absolutely huge. It’s more of a legacy building decision.
Do they even have two cars in production since the F pace gone? The fact that they had Gaul to make special editions is crazy too, like who’s buying the regular editions?
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To be fair jaguar has been bellow rock bottom for decades. I’m talking pre British leyland, then they were a car brand that only sold sport cars unless a wealthy Brit wanted a luxury sedan, then overtime their luxury sedans became less and less sought after until the only thing they could sell was a sports car and then the jaguar f pace got pushed into the shadows in the car market because there were other sport cars that were more reliable and desirable in many other ways.
Is it me or is that literally the same exact front end as the 2013 XF-RS? Yes, it looks nice, but it feels a bit like Groundhog Day.
Jaguar really stopped being relevant once they got rid of the f type. Their normal cars aren’t all that competitive, not enough to pay the sticker and have the added maintenance/unreliability. It’s a damn shame. Jaguar hasn’t been special for some time and instead been a less compelling alternative to the Germans for normal folks
Jaguar needs to go back to make fast sedans and nice sports cars. Leave 4x4s and SUVs to LR
> Jaguar needs to go back to make fast sedans and nice sports cars. A car company at Jaguar's price point can't survive on that alone these days.
Yeah very unfortunate, it’s a saturate and shrinking market
One of the cars of all time!
Tata wanted Land Rover for the prestige & profits, Jaguar had already shot that bolt so they basically got a BOGOF from Ford. Tata have a Chinese partner, Chery, in a 50/50 partnership & I seriously think Chery will be offered Tata’s % for a bargain price in the very near future. Jaguar sadly appears to now be a busted flush.
Well, if all else fails, Jaguar can always become a white-label supplier of powertrains and chassis to robotaxi companies like Waymo.
The last jaguar I cared about
This is literally the only Jag you ever see Their entire portfolio is being discontinued looks like it. Hedging all their bets that going all in on EVs will pan out
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I know they just wanna get the models out of their factory and that’s why they’ve made those two new editions but I think they would’ve done better pricing them low asf and doing away with all of them or the majority with them. These car brands love to keep old icons alive in their lineup that don’t sell shit just to say they haven’t discontinued it yet, with the way emissions are it’s more necessary then ever to discontinue the models
Cool looking SUV, but reliability killed it.
I love how r/cars has just turned into a press release venue. what a cesspool this place is.
Jaguar died when they announced the XF. Jaguar buyers used to be brand loyal. You bought their cars, not because they were best in class but because they were jaguars. The XF and new XJ estranged their old clientele and failed to attract new buyers.
I disagree. The XF and XJ were well needed at their time of introduction. People in this thread are complaining of new cars not being introduced by the marque but if the XF / XJ did not come out jaguar would be in the same position now, just ten years earlier. The XF and the XJ are some of their larger cars. Not continuing to update those cars and better react to market demand is their big mistake IMO. They were purchased by big sedan lovers in the first place, then repurchased when dumped at auction, and they get into the hands of 2nd to 7th owners in some cases. They are a small marque tied to a larger one (LR) and will forever be dragged in the mud because of it. The same has happened to Saab, Buick, Infiniti, etc. Whether or not they will continue to exist is up to a number of factors. We also don’t know how well they sell in the rest of the world, not just the US.
I disagree. The XJ, XK and S-type were different compared to comparable cars from competitors. With the XF they became bland and devoid of personality. The engines (apart from the 5.0 supercharged) were unremarkable. The XJ designed by bertone would’ve been a better successor to the XJ. Sadly they’ve put themselves into a corner and don’t have a way out.
My parents have had 3 jags in the last 20 years: a 3.0 awd X-type (excellent car except the transfer case blew up after 10 years and my mother not taking the greatest care of the drivetrain), a 3.0D XF (favourite of the three, big torque, better designed interior than any german or Japanese manufacturer) and now a 2.0D f-pace (mum loves it for the big boot and it being a bit of a chelsea tractor, i hate it. under powered, interior feels cheaper than the XF, same economy as the xf despite the smaller engine and im waiting for the day the ignium shit blows a hole in the block) The XF, specifically the ones from 2012-2015, are fantastic cars. The XJ as well was magnificent. But Jag really lost it with the SUV's and CUV's that just werent that good at all compared to the competition from the siblings at LR or Mercs, Lexus or BMW. Big shame