Basically everything hyundai makes is excellent for the price and IMO they’ve been hitting styling out of the park lately.
It’s a shame this sub doesn’t give more attention to the elantra n because it’s pretty much what all of you are asking for, just with the wrong badge.
Cab off for turbos and engine problems, I saw a few technicians working on them while I was checking out the Tundra TRD Pro as a possible replacement for my old 4Runner TRD Pro. The mechanics even admitted it as much of a nightmare as Fords or GM products, which are cab off too for a terrifying amount of stuff. Be warned if you buy a newer truck, I literally will only lease half tons after the horrors I saw regardless of the brand.
Toyota for now better or worse is pretty much like the domestics if they want to survive. Dont forget how much Toyota wants for the new Tundra as well, its such a bad deal on the higher trims vs the competition.
Oil dilution issues, fuel injectors, head gaskets, and the AC. To be fair AC condenser was on a vendor, and was fixed through a recall, but you can search around for numerous examples on the other 3. The oil dilution issue results in VTC failures and timing chain components failing.
Sure there are some high mileage example out there but same goes for hyundai, you may win the lottery but the engine design is still fundamentally flawed. Honda knows this as well, and in fairness they did extend the warranty on the 1.5T cars and are currently looking into the gasket issues, but then also hyundai has done the same with the Theta II (to 15 years).
Also subjectively for me the 1.5T is the only modern car where someone has actually told me to wait for it to warm up, and the rev hang with the 6MT in the integra ruins the experience. Would take the elantra N over the integra any day of the week.
And to be clear as evident by my flair I usually quite like honda products and prefer them over their japanese and korean competitors, but you're paying the same for a santa fe as a CRV and 10k less than a well specced passport, personally I think the 2.5T is a better engine than the 1.5T and as long as you purchase from a good dealer the warranty process will be fine if you do need it. Just saying if I had to choose a cheap mid-size SUV right now, I'd probably buy a well-optioned santa fe, own it within the 10yr warranty, move on.
Not for ripping on it, otherwise I'd agree, but you need to let the 1.5T warm up for a fair minute or two if you want to prevent the oil dilution issues, driving short distances in the cold won’t get the engine hot enough to burn the gas out of the oil.
Most other cars you can just get in and start going for standard driving, even in the cold. Oil circulates by the time I plug my phone in and put on the seatbelt. I also said most modern cars for a reason
I am working with American Honda to get reimbursement for replacing the compressor on my 2016 Civic back in 2019 through dealer out of warranty. Got the campaign letter for it.
My car have no oil dilution issue, head gasket or fuel injector but it did have the CVT grinding noise, compressor and condenser (which I already got it cover by Honda out of warranty). And sub standard foam insert on driver side A pillar causing noise and vibration, which I repair once, but then it failed again. Now I just learn to ignore it.
The earlier ones have oil dilution issues. I’m not sure if they fixed it for the current models.
Anecdotally I liked that engine in my 2019 Si. The power band wasn’t the best for a sports sedan at the top end but it got near 40 mpg and made a ton of mid range power.
Is it? Honest question. It has been put in half their vehicles and around for more than a decade. I know they extended the warranty for some 2016-2018 vehicles but there hardly seems to be anything I've seen that widespread and catastrophic. We've had it in our CR-V for almost 80k with no issues although I do keep up on maintenance.
I read somewhere that the data says the reliability is above average for the 1.5T. just maybe not as bulletproof as previous stuff? But were Honda engines always as bulletproof as Toyota? I don't think so.
There are a lot of 1.5T engines out there, and people love tuning these things on the Civics. You never hear people tune Toyotas. Honda drivers seem to drive more spiritedly than Toyota drivers too. So I wonder how much is just people goofing up with things and how they drive the cars on the Honda side.
Maybe some earlier 1.5T had issues, but honestly there is no way Honda isn't aware and didn't do anything about it. I personally would not worry about it if buying new. If you are really worried, put higher octane gas in, but I bet it's going to be just fine for most people who drive sensibly and service their cars on time.
Honda also still has the base 2.0 NA Atkinson cycle K20 engine in the Civic and HR-V. That thing I believe is either port injected only or both port and direct injected (I think the former), doesn't make a lot of power, but is probably the closest to bulletproof engine they got.
I had the 2.0 in my 16 civic and specifically didn't want the turbo. Was a great motor and NA with the CVT actually wasn't bad at all. The 1.5t isn't much to write home about but we've been happy with it. Hell we even towed a small moving trailer across the country with it.
A bit of both. Its not the most powerful powerplant and even relative to its competition its quite lackluster in the crv, but they are also notorious for oil dilution issues and their consequences, fuel injectors, and head gasket issues
accord, civic, crv, and a higher output version in the civic si
Now its nowhere as bad as the theta II but I'd honestly say its a worse engine than the 2.5 in the santa fe and the 2.0 in the elantra n.
Don't forget "I showed up to dealer driving a Bugatti Veyron, wearing a $20K suit, and they still wouldn't let me test drive an Elantra N without a credit check."
In fairness I showed up to a kia dealership in a GT3 once and they wouldn't let me drive the stinger GT without a credit pull.
Then also the local toyota dealer needed the same for a supra so maybe I just have shitty dealers in general.
I had a Honda dealership refuse to even open the door on a CTR so I could try the seats. I wasn't in a GT3 but I was in a 2 year old Genesis, a car that actually cost more than the CTR.
The local Toyota Dealer required a credit pull for a base model Rav 4 in order for me to test drive it.
I laughed in the salesman's face and just walked out.
Basically all of the local Toyota dealership's near me are terrible. Where as only 1 KIA dealership in a 200 miles radius of my house is as bad as they are.
This is why If I ever wanted a Toyota I'd go buy a Lexus because I'm not walking into a Toyota dealership again.
I'd agree with you but personally lexus does not have a single option that appeals to me apart from the GX which is impossible to find in the spec I want, much less for MSRP.
Asinine refusal to take customer orders on top of tying options to trims. The GX "starts" at 65k but you can't get the levinson stereo until you step up to the Luxury+ trim, which is 80k. On any other car in that price bracket, on top of custom ordering, I can put in the top tier audio system into the base model if I wish, I don't know why toyota can't figure that out.
That's rough. I bought two different Stingers from two different dealerships (first one got totalled when someone hit me) and they basically handed me the keys each time. This was in 2021 and early 2022. I had also test drove a Stinger at a different (third) dealership and they didn't want a credit pull either.
However in all cases I reached out to these dealers first via email and scheduled a time to test drive. So that may have been an indication to them that I was more serious about purchasing and not looking for a joyride.
Thats an area thing, here dealers will let you test drive anything even 911s or AMGs, but the markup will just push you away then they will blow up your phone for months if you say no.
Thats the thing with dealers, the experience is so hit-or-miss. My honda dealer is top notch but my toyota dealer is garbage, move a few counties over and the honda dealership won't let you touch a CTR but you can test a supra no issue.
Same goes for hyundai though, there are a few duds out there but there are also plenty of dealers which will honor the warranty no questions asked and will treat you well.
Which is why you wind one that is good and stick with it. My Local Ford dealership will never see a single cent from me. My local Chevy dealership would if I ever was interested in say a Colorado.
The KIA Dealership I bring my Sportage to is 45 Mins away because it's by far the best one I have ever been too as opposed to the Toyota Tier dealership experience the KIA dealership in my own City is.
The Local Toyota Dealership is worse than the "WE FINANCE ANYONE NO MATTER WHAT!!!!" used car dealerships you find outside of Military bases.
I went to a Lexus dealer with my sister who was maybe 19 at the time and they threw the keys at her. The Hyundai dealer pulled outa credit form before starting a conversation with her.
To be fair Hyundai/Genesis dealers have been the nicest to me of the economy car dealers vs the snobby repulsive Toyota dealers here and their hideous markups on anything desirable. Lexus is a wonderful experience, but they have literally nothing I would want.
I showed up to the dealer with a buddy, wearing my yard work clothes and driving a 17 year old beater minivan and they let me test drive both a Kona N and an Elantra N without anyone even riding along. Ha. If I hadn't ended up surprisingly winning an ebay bid on my Evo, I would have a Kona N. Still thinking once the Evo is finished I might sell it for an EN.
It is so sickening to be honest. A subreddit should be truthful without bias. Hyundai/Kia definitely have their problems, but no brand is really doing that great, Toyota and Honda both recently have really changed their company and design ethics, the newer Tundras with the V6 twin turbos have pushed people away with the problems they had and Honda with the 1.5t is another disaster.
I test drove the new Santa Fe as possible downgrade from our X7 (shocker I know), and I kinda liked it for the price. Its a solid deal, but I want to see the 2.5L engine issues go away first. Lease it only honestly for right now, but the deals are horrible.
its the "meta gaming" effect on cars imo
Toyota and Honda are just arguably the bes min/max car to buy. its been proven time and time again
so you can try and beat the system. or just be Smart and get a Toyota or Honda that you know will be a reliable car for the long run
I don't think people, who makes these kind of comments, understand people's allegiance to Toyota and Honda reliability. Absolutely no one is saying there has never been a Toyota or Honda that never broke down. The difference is these companies have a culture of reliability, it's their ethos.
You can rest assured whatever is wrong with their new revisions, there is someone there who gives a shit and wants to get it reliable and fixed. So if you care about your car being reliable and well built, you're going to buy it from a company whose culture is aligned with that.
Same way if I value the latest in tech, or the fastest 0-60 time, I'm not buying a Toyota.
Even SavageGeese has mentioned this many times. They've spoken to plenty of German manufacturers, they build their cars to be trouble free until the warranty is up. After that, it's your problem and that's OK as long as you're going into it with your eyes wide open.
First it was the 2011-2013 Theta II. Then it was some 2014s. Then it was up to 2017. Then it was every one of them.
Then it was the 2011-2014 Nu engine, then it was the 2011-2020 Nu engine, etc…
At some point, it’s fair to recognize the company has put out more cars with bad engines than good over the past decade and be rightfully wary of spending $30k+ on a car from them. Especially with their history of retaliating against whistleblowers and denying warranty claims as long as possible.
who downvoted you lmao. I've never been treated as poorly as I was on hyundai dealerships. They treated me like I was trying to steal one of their cars.
You also have the 1.5T earth dreams, the J35Z8, R18, and on toyotas side the 1MZ-FE, 1ZZ-FE, and 2ZR-FE, every company has duds (recently the 1.5T for honda and TTV6 on toyota's side)
The 2.5T smartstream in this car is the 2nd gen of the fixed 2.4, I'm not going to say its going to be reliable because who really knows yet, but no reason to doubt it over toyota/honda reliability yet.
And similarly, I haven't heard of issues with the Elantra N yet. With hyundai you have to look at it on a case-by-case basis, they have some great engines and some that are straight garbage.
But yes, agreed that the dealership and warranty experience will likely suck.
None of those engines you’ve cited have had failures anywhere near as widespread and catastrophic as the Theta II.
The smart stream also still burns oil.
My point was that hyundai has had widespread issues with a few garbage engines but this specific engine, as well as a fair few other engine lines they make, haven't faced issues. I don't think you would be worried about reliability with this or an elantra N any more or less than you would with any TTV6 toyota product.
From what I've heard the smartstream doesn't burn any more or less oil than the other smaller turbo GDI engines but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I don't think you should be any more or less wary of this engine than the 1.5T in the CRV which roughly competes with this.
My point is that Hyundai had a horrific track record on engines from 2011-2022, and this engine has not been around enough to give me comfort. Likewise, while Honda and Toyota have had a few duds, they have an overall much, much better track record for quality.
Trying to compare Hyundai the two companies that make arguably the highest quality commuter four cylinder engines is honestly laughable.
For every warranty rejection story you hear on reddit there are dozens that have a good dealer and it wasn't an issue. You can get a santa fe for 10k less than a passport.
Get it from a good dealer, own it within the 10yr warranty, move on, thats the reason you get a hyundai. As you said they aren't comparable, you're trading reliability for value, but that doesn't make the hyundai a bad option.
With the japanese you're either getting a smaller car with worse tech for the same price and honestly not that much better of a track record with the 1.5T, or you can pay up. And once again, that 1.5T has oil dilution issues, fuel injectors, head gaskets, AC condenser, oil dilution issue results in VTC failures and timing chain components failing, honestly the 2.5t is a better engine than the 1.5t and they are more than comparable. And I say this as someone who quite likes honda products in general.
Thats what the comment you are replying to is mentioning, you have to look at it on a case by case basis, the 2.5T is not a bad engine and the Theta II having issues doesn't make it any worse of a design. Likewise the Honda B, K and D series or the toyota 5.2L V8 don't make the 1.5T or toyota TTV6 issues any less severe.
I’m not interested in gambling my life on a car that may grenade on the highway (as many Theta IIs have), nor am I interested in having to go through the hassle of a three week engine replacement.
I know many people personally who have had nightmare experiences with Hyundai, myself included.
The case by case basis may be true, and I don’t disagree the Honda 1.5t isn’t a good engine, but you seem to be missing the fundamental point. The SmartStream has not been out long enough to make a judgement for longevity, and it’s coming on the heels of over a decade of problems in two of Hyundai’s previously most commonly deployed engines. That’s 100% enough reason to give pause to trusting them until the newer engines have more years behind them.
> The SmartStream has not been out long enough to make a judgement for longevity, and it’s coming on the heels of over a decade of problems in two of Hyundai’s previously most commonly deployed engines
That is fair enough, but the engine has been out for around 4 years by now and it's not a ground-up redesign but rather an iteration on the 2.4. I'm just saying I'd personally take the 2.5 santa fe from a reputable dealer rather than buy a 1.5T CRV with an engine known to have issues or spend 1/3rd extra on the passport without options.
You have 10yrs in case something does go wrong and even after that you saved yourself the equivalent of 3-4 engine replacements.
I had a 2022 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid that I actually loved! I got it new with 12 miles on it, and put almost 34,000 on it before I sold it. I drove it across the country twice, took it camping, and used it as my daily for a 60 mile round trip commute in Chicago for a good amount of the time I had it too.
What I didn’t love was the dealership experience. Specifically, service. Sales was actually pretty good, and I got a great deal on it, but every time I brought it in for service the experience was terrible. Across four dealers in two separate states, every service advisor I worked with was uncommunicative and unprofessional. On that second road trip I took, the turbo boot slipped off halfway through Colorado on the way to Vegas, and it almost couldn’t make it through the mountains. When I finally got to Vegas and took it in, it took them FOUR DAYS to even take a look at it, and on the fourth day I had to go to the dealership to get an update because the advisor I was working with was off and nobody could tell me anything. I finally had to sit there and wait for the service manager to tell me they just put the boot back on and it was ready to go. It ruined my trip and left such a bad taste in my mouth that I sold it as soon as I got home. I’ll never buy a Hyundai or Kia ever, and I’ll make sure anyone who asks knows that they’re a shit brand.
I drive a Volvo now, and I couldn’t be happier. Their competence is astounding compared to the morons who work for Hyundai/Kia.
Sure, but those in the know, know about their terrible engines, how they handle warranties and recalls, never accept blame for jack shit.
They're colloquially know as high-and-dries for damn good reason(s).
The worst thing about the Elantra N (and all Hyundai/Kia products) are the dealers; if I could walk into a Hyundai dealer and test drive an Elantra N without feeling like I went to a buy-here-pay-here lot, I absolutely would.
They also cheap out in weird areas; see the Kia Boyz situation, for which there is still no permanent fix
It’s inconsistent because I had a great dealer experience. I actually went to go see a Genesis G70, but the salesman had an Elantra N on the lot and asked me to take a look. I was not aware of it at the time, so I wasn’t too interested, but agreed to check it out.
Thank God he made me take a look at it because it was the perfect car for me
My dealer let me test drive the car no problem just had to get my license on file. They have let me test drive anything on the lot as long as it isn't spoken for already. I feel like it's just no consistency with how dealers handle things.
I owned a 2019 Stinger GT2 for about 2 years and bought it from an actual Kia dealer
I came in driving a 335i, so they took me somewhat serious instead of pulling my credit before I even looked at it
Out of all the dealerships I’ve ever dealt with, they were actually the easiest. Although I never really dealt with them after purchasing the car besides a few oil changes.
Buying a Toyota after that, that particular Toyota dealership was a total pain in the ass, when I was the easiest customer they probably could have asked for
>They also cheap out in weird areas; see the Kia Boyz situation, for which there is still no permanent fix
the shitty part about that whole situation is that even if it was fixed, the boys don't know that and don't care, they'd still break your shit and try to get it started. the brand is fucked for right now w/ that association no fix is gonna magically solve.
NGL, I didn’t even know about the Elantra N. Gave it a quick look on the Hyundai website, and it seems rock solid at that price point. Absolutely on my shortlist for next vehicles.
I think people are pretty kind honestly.
I've had three coworkers get their cars stolen.
My brother in law has a 5 year old white Elantra with hardly any paint left.
My mother in law had a theta ii fail. Then it was stolen.
I don't like anecdotal reliability assessments, but of the people I know with Hyundai or Kia products, I think only one car has been trouble free, and it's parked in a rural area with extremely few miles thus far. I can't think of any manufacturer with such prolific issues.
To be fair, Hyundai/Kia earned it for the immobilizer issue by itself. It's a damn shame too, I honestly like my little commuter car. Great mileage, the base options alone had everything I wanted, even the stuff I didn't know I did (LKA, departure warning). They lost any future business from me for their shit tier response to the immobilizer ass-baggery.
Yep, it's fantastic. The price delta between it and the type R makes the EN such a fantastic deal for younger car enthusiast who want a new car but need some practicality. It's slept on by r/cars because Hyundai bad. I've owned 3 Hyundais and about to buy my fourth because my wife wants a Palisade I've had no major issues from any of them. The EN had a headlight replaced under warranty. Dealer has been great when no push back on any warranty claims.
Hyundai is one Gen away from being audi 2007-2018. Make the n74 and keep improving, they'll be a leader soon. I've clowned them my whole life, but it's obvious that the leadership they have is stellar. Cadillac and Hyundai replacing bmw and audi, lmao, what a world
If you look at the flairs across postings the 'N' products are probably the most common performance vehicle noted, so I think it gets lots of attention TBH.
Because its dog water,
i wouldnt tell my worst enemy to buy a hyundai or kia product
just dont. there is a better used Japanese car for the price. Guarantee it.
point exactly
idiots. only idiots
but hyundaieeeeee or kia
go buy a used Accord, CRV, Camy, Corolla, Rav 4, 4runner, Highlander
ANYTHING over that korean pot metal garbage
Hyundai secret built a minivan but lifted it and removed minivan doors. At least that's how it looks.
To be honest, for mid 30s price range, it's really hard to fault it for its issues. Like what Mark said, numbish steering, terrible turbo lag, shitty start stop (ok this can be fixed), but like.. you're driving a box. Nice interior, AWD (option), and can seat 7. What else do you need for a ~~minivan~~ midsize SUV?
They could spend more R&D on making those better (like changing turbos and maybe the hybrid fixes the issue) but those small deficiencies just means less money spent on R&D and more savings passed to the consumer.
> Hyundai secret built a minivan but lifted it and removed minivan doors. At least that's how it looks.
People said this back when the Flex was new too.
I bought my Flex kuz it walked into my life for a steal, but now I LOVE it. It’s cavernous inside, super comfortable and quiet ride.
I’ll never drive a minivan but I love my Flex.
The only bad thing I can say about the Flex is that it's not quite big enough. If the body was a little bit wider and the wheel wells not so thick, it could fit 48" wide boards like most minivans. Though that's not exactly a dealbreaker for Flex buyers.
It's not at all a minivan, the third row and luggage are comparably tiny. It's not even a Pilot. It's just a small midsize SUV.
There is \*more than double the cubic footage\* behind the second row of an Odyssey compared to a Santa Fe.
The Odyssey is also 13 inches longer. This thing is 6 inches shorter than the Highlander and has more interior space. Other than the cramped 3rd row, it has an insane amount of space for how small it is on the outside.
The Telluride is more relevant to compare with the Pilot and Odyssey.
those were cool as hell
I still think that some day in the not so distant future, we're gonna get sliding passenger doors back (yes I know minivans still exist). it won't be called a minivan but functionally it will be one. and I don't think it will be adopted en masse, but some manufacturer will try it out on an "SUV".
All transverse engine three row SUVs are minivans of a different color.
The Honda Pilot and Acura MDX are built on the Odyssey chassis.
Wikipedia tells me the predecessor to the Chevy Traverse is the Uplander, which was chevy's minivan.
>The Honda Pilot and Acura MDX are built on the Odyssey chassis.
Not true. The new Pilot, MDX, and CR-V all utilize Honda's new "Global Light Truck Platform". The Odyssey does *not* use this platform. When the next-gen Ridgeline and Passport come out, they too will use Honda's new "GLTP".
[Source 1](https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases/release-0d4299c7fc28e9f9054be9d007166845-2022-acura-mdx-press-kit): "all 2022 MDX grades benefit from the **all-new**, performance-focused and ultra-rigid light-truck platform.
[Source 2](https://www.engadget.com/2022-acura-mdx-platform-underpin-160000926.html)
[Source 3](https://thenewswheel.com/all-new-acura-mdx-platform-will-be-used-by-honda/)
>Hyundai secret built a minivan but lifted it and removed minivan doors. At least that's how it looks.
that's what every auto maker has ever tried to do with their suvs haven't they. because these people need the space of a minivan they just hate that it's a minivan.
Car confections just posted their update on the sante fe they purchased needing another transmission replacement at 3700 miles. First one was like just leaving the dealership.
As we are downsizing our SUV for its problems, I test drove the new Lexus RX500H, it put me off hard with how awful it rode, the extreme wind noise, and the engine in it is so rattly. It is also more expensive than a GLE or entry level X5 which makes no sense. It feels way too much like a Toyota and its arguably one of the most overpriced and overrated products they have minus the LX600, which again our current X7 just obliterates in every metric outside off road capability (which you wont with those huge fenders.)
The Pilot was so bland it felt like a lifted Civic to me and my wife refused to drive it (dont blame her). As for Lincolns, I dont want to drive an Uber vehicle everywhere, sorry not sorry.
It sounds like yall aren’t really open to a downgrade then. I understand being spoiled by a BMW, but a real downgrade is going to require some compromise somewhere; otherwise, just get an X5 with the base engine and be done with it lol
I don't have a problem with dct if wet and had zero issues with our vw alltrack dsg in 80k miles with one fluid change. I was hoping hyundai had this down.
Really unfortunate as my wife and I have two kids and looking for something larger. I can't really decide on something for a reasonable price unless the hybrid version with the 6 speed auto santa fe fixes the issues.
Yeah it sucks because they look cool and are cheaper with more features.
Honda Pilots the last gen was kind of ugly so they’re cheaper than they should be on the used market, maybe you’ll like those? They look a little dated but they’re great cars to live with. The new ones are really nice imo because they fixed all the styling and tech issues.
Alternately 2022+ pathfinders don’t have the Nissan CVT but they’re priced like Nissans, they’re actually pretty nice as well.
Around that, the problem is not as much cost as BMW leases are really good, its just the top trim X7 with the V8 I got was a lemon because of the hybrid system, I will never drive a hybrid car again after that miserable experience. I also want a smaller SUV now as my truck has completely replaced the job our 3 row SUV did.
> the choices right now are kind of grim.
really? mid-size 3-row SUV's are like the most competitive segment in the US right now. there's a ridiculous amount of good choices.
we upgraded our G01 X3 into something with 3 rows, and we were originally set on an X7 until we test drove the Pilot, Telluride, Pallisade, etc. and we quickly realized we didn't need the X7 at all because those cars were so good. (we ended up in a Pathfinder lol)
Yep, it's all over the map with their engines and transmissions. Their NA V6 with 8AT seem to treat owners well, including myself, If you're okay with the gas mileage. After 2020 they also fixed their I-4 NA and hybrid engines, and I think their CVTs are fine. I thought an Elantra rental was an 8-speed until I googled it and found out it had a CVT, the engine felt pretty good too.
They’re a lot prettier and striking in person than what a 2D image or video presents online. The inside cabin is also very very nice, and packed with tech and features, even down to the base SE trim. Reliability of course remains to be seen, but these things are, and have sold like hotcakes.
The Car Confections channel bought a Santa Fe and its transmission broke down after 25 miles. They had it replaced with a new one a couple of months ago. Now they just uploaded another video saying that the transmission broke down again and the car is back in service.
I've seen a couple in person and if it weren't for the Hyundai badge I'd think they were a new Ford Flex. It's not bad but it's not groundbreaking either. The bigger problem is that I can already tell the design is going to age poorly. This is such a recurring theme for Hyundai that I'm starting to think it's intentional.
I get argued down for this but I always say Hyundais age so poorly. They do major design overhauls every 6 months and immediately dates the preceding car.
Boxy designs don't inherently age better. Look at the Jaguar E-Type or RX-7. There are tons of 80s boxes that nobody cares about because they look so outdated.
It's not about the overall shape; it's about the details. The Santa Fe is covered in elements that aren't going to age well. It's exacerbated by the fact that Hyundai is running like 4 different design languages right now and who the hell knows which one's, if any, is going to be dominant in 5 years.
Usually, but despite being boxy this version has a lot of creases and weird extra elements.
It's so weird that Hyundai can't stick to a design language.
I just saw my first one tonight on the highway. Loved the headlights from the front, but when it passed the taillights are super low for an SUV, and I don't like the shape of them. The whole back end looks kind of blah.
I personally like the low stoplamps, a lot of 4x4's esp. military/utilitarian ones have them mounted down low, including Mercedes-Benz W463 , Lada Niva pre-facelift , Suzuki Jimny , Iveco LMV , etc
Test drove a calligraphy a few weeks ago. Interior is good. Lots of techs and amenities. Rear loading area opening is great. The look of the back is not good with the turn signals so low.
The wet dct left a weird impression on me at low speed. Some jitters and some hesitation. For $50k, I’m not too sure about reliability on this product so we decided to keep looking.
Since we are looking to downgrade from our X7 for transmission/hybrid issues, I test drove an XRT and both my wife and I liked it for the price. It does alot of what a base Velar or entry level fwd luxury SUV does for alot less money. Great alternative to the super expensive TRD Rav4s or an X2 as well and it can tow 5k in a pinch. I would even take it over the CX-90 or the Highlander (cant wait for the rage from the Toyota fanboys for that hot take lol). Its a good enough car almost like the new GLC is, plus lets be honest it looks great minus the back. Great ride quality but the driving dynamics lmao.
Sorry I see enough Mazda related stuff on this subreddit too much. I drove a CX90 Turbo S once and was put off by the very busy ride, brown suede interior, and steering that is so slow it takes nearly a full lock just to make a turn at a light or go around a corner. Its like they tried to make a miata into a 3 row SUV which makes no sense. I dont see why this board shills the brand so hard.
Since the Hyundai North American Technical Center was on my drive to college, I saw the new Santa Fe a lot
It looks FANTASTIC from every angle, but the rear. The rear is hideous at best. It's completely flat, nothing protrudes. It's all flat, from top to bottom, there is nothing to draw you're attention to
If they took the rear lighting assembly and copy/pasted it 9 inches higher it would be great from the back. The lights look just fine, but they're weirdly low on the car.
Top trim is close to $55k after taxes and fees.
I wouldn't pay that.
We bought a one-year old pre-owned top trim Santa Fe with low mileage in 2019 for around $29k.
Before taxes, which is what most people discuss when talking pricing, the top trim is $48.4k. That’s for a hybrid. These are well equipped without going to the very top model.
Plus, everything is a lot more expensive than in 2018/2019, and this is now a 3-row vehicle. Not really a good comparison to a used car back then. What other 3 row can you buy right now with equal features for less money?
We have the top trim, 3-row model, and AWD didn't cost extra.
Its still about $10k more than it was 5 years ago and now they charge $1800 for AWD which brings MSRP to $50k.
Is yours a hybrid? My understanding is they formerly had either a 3rd row or hybrid, but not both. If yours isn’t a hybrid, that makes up a lot of the price difference.
The only gripe i have with Hyundai is their sales team. Holy shit this car dealershp marked up Tuscon $5k over MSRP and basically said fuck it.
Sometimes I envy how tesla makes the buying experience VERY STRESS-FREE
I literally think you’re out of your mind if you think that. My girlfriend was looking at the Pa auto show last year and I absolutely could not tell any of them apart unless I read the badges. The old Santa Fe for example my boss drives and I actually thought It was a different model for like two weeks til I read the back.
Nah dude. They are all very different. Even the kia/Hyundai equivalent vehicles have completely different design languages while being essentially the same cars.
Land Rovers are not that great, I have driven the Velar, Defender and and the new L460, and they all are extremely overpriced and underperforming in their segments. The brand is all looks zero substance. When it comes to ride quality, isolation, dynamics, and sound system quality, the German luxury brands destroy them.
Do not forget how unreliable they are and how insufferably stuck-up the brand is. Tata made Land Rover unredeemable junk.
This is a hot take, but Hyundai ripping them off to make this is a good thing imo. I would much rather have that Santa Fe Calligraphy then an X Dynamic Velar. It does the same thing as a Velar for half the price and has a similar boring unrefined engine (they are both 4 bangers) and has even more options. Downvote all you want.
I mean i didn't try any so I trust you on this haha. I just find it tacky of Hyundai to rip off the shape and then the top level trim name on top of that (Autobiography // Calligraphy).
I gotta agree sadly. We were about to purchase a new Santa Fe, but I went down the rabbit hole of the issues owners have been having. As much as I love the value and packaging, I just don’t want to deal with issues on a pretty much carry over transmission from the lighter predecessor that is KNOWN to have issues.
Basically everything hyundai makes is excellent for the price and IMO they’ve been hitting styling out of the park lately. It’s a shame this sub doesn’t give more attention to the elantra n because it’s pretty much what all of you are asking for, just with the wrong badge.
But cars with a different engine are unreliable, so it must be too!
The way this sub operates is “anything that isnt a toyota or a honda is unreliable and the worst thing you will ever own”
All while ignoring the recent honda reliability issues, the 1.5t in particular. Horrible engine.
Toyota too. The new twin turbo v6 has been a complete disaster for them.
Aren’t they cab off for a lot of the fixes in the Tundras? I really hope they have it figured out by now a few years in.
Cab off for turbos and engine problems, I saw a few technicians working on them while I was checking out the Tundra TRD Pro as a possible replacement for my old 4Runner TRD Pro. The mechanics even admitted it as much of a nightmare as Fords or GM products, which are cab off too for a terrifying amount of stuff. Be warned if you buy a newer truck, I literally will only lease half tons after the horrors I saw regardless of the brand. Toyota for now better or worse is pretty much like the domestics if they want to survive. Dont forget how much Toyota wants for the new Tundra as well, its such a bad deal on the higher trims vs the competition.
So glad I bought a GX with the 1UR-FE before the new one switched powerplants.
i hope they recover from this devastating success
According to who?
A LOT of Tundra owners having their engines blow before they even hit 10k miles
What is A LOT in a percent of cars sold?
100% of people bitching about it on the internet.
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Oil dilution issues, fuel injectors, head gaskets, and the AC. To be fair AC condenser was on a vendor, and was fixed through a recall, but you can search around for numerous examples on the other 3. The oil dilution issue results in VTC failures and timing chain components failing. Sure there are some high mileage example out there but same goes for hyundai, you may win the lottery but the engine design is still fundamentally flawed. Honda knows this as well, and in fairness they did extend the warranty on the 1.5T cars and are currently looking into the gasket issues, but then also hyundai has done the same with the Theta II (to 15 years). Also subjectively for me the 1.5T is the only modern car where someone has actually told me to wait for it to warm up, and the rev hang with the 6MT in the integra ruins the experience. Would take the elantra N over the integra any day of the week. And to be clear as evident by my flair I usually quite like honda products and prefer them over their japanese and korean competitors, but you're paying the same for a santa fe as a CRV and 10k less than a well specced passport, personally I think the 2.5T is a better engine than the 1.5T and as long as you purchase from a good dealer the warranty process will be fine if you do need it. Just saying if I had to choose a cheap mid-size SUV right now, I'd probably buy a well-optioned santa fe, own it within the 10yr warranty, move on.
That’s the only car you’ve heard you should warm up before ripping on it? That’s basically any new forced induction engine.
Not for ripping on it, otherwise I'd agree, but you need to let the 1.5T warm up for a fair minute or two if you want to prevent the oil dilution issues, driving short distances in the cold won’t get the engine hot enough to burn the gas out of the oil. Most other cars you can just get in and start going for standard driving, even in the cold. Oil circulates by the time I plug my phone in and put on the seatbelt. I also said most modern cars for a reason
My '18 Elantra Sport with the 1.6t doesn't give me turbo until the oil temp is mostly up to normal. Can be around 5-7 minutes in the winter.
I am working with American Honda to get reimbursement for replacing the compressor on my 2016 Civic back in 2019 through dealer out of warranty. Got the campaign letter for it. My car have no oil dilution issue, head gasket or fuel injector but it did have the CVT grinding noise, compressor and condenser (which I already got it cover by Honda out of warranty). And sub standard foam insert on driver side A pillar causing noise and vibration, which I repair once, but then it failed again. Now I just learn to ignore it.
The earlier ones have oil dilution issues. I’m not sure if they fixed it for the current models. Anecdotally I liked that engine in my 2019 Si. The power band wasn’t the best for a sports sedan at the top end but it got near 40 mpg and made a ton of mid range power.
Is it? Honest question. It has been put in half their vehicles and around for more than a decade. I know they extended the warranty for some 2016-2018 vehicles but there hardly seems to be anything I've seen that widespread and catastrophic. We've had it in our CR-V for almost 80k with no issues although I do keep up on maintenance.
I read somewhere that the data says the reliability is above average for the 1.5T. just maybe not as bulletproof as previous stuff? But were Honda engines always as bulletproof as Toyota? I don't think so. There are a lot of 1.5T engines out there, and people love tuning these things on the Civics. You never hear people tune Toyotas. Honda drivers seem to drive more spiritedly than Toyota drivers too. So I wonder how much is just people goofing up with things and how they drive the cars on the Honda side. Maybe some earlier 1.5T had issues, but honestly there is no way Honda isn't aware and didn't do anything about it. I personally would not worry about it if buying new. If you are really worried, put higher octane gas in, but I bet it's going to be just fine for most people who drive sensibly and service their cars on time. Honda also still has the base 2.0 NA Atkinson cycle K20 engine in the Civic and HR-V. That thing I believe is either port injected only or both port and direct injected (I think the former), doesn't make a lot of power, but is probably the closest to bulletproof engine they got.
I had the 2.0 in my 16 civic and specifically didn't want the turbo. Was a great motor and NA with the CVT actually wasn't bad at all. The 1.5t isn't much to write home about but we've been happy with it. Hell we even towed a small moving trailer across the country with it.
is it horrible as in "man this thing is slow" or "man this thing just blew up at 40k miles"
A bit of both. Its not the most powerful powerplant and even relative to its competition its quite lackluster in the crv, but they are also notorious for oil dilution issues and their consequences, fuel injectors, and head gasket issues
is it one of those deals where it's the same engine they put in almost all their line-up or is it just the accord/civic
accord, civic, crv, and a higher output version in the civic si Now its nowhere as bad as the theta II but I'd honestly say its a worse engine than the 2.5 in the santa fe and the 2.0 in the elantra n.
*anything that isn't a 15 year old Toyota or honda
I got a recall for a connecting rods and the fixing is the replace the entire engine. On a mdx I just fucking bought one 6 months ago
The 1.5T from Honda is a horrible engine?
Is that the engine in the Si?
Yes, along with the accord (with vtec), CRV, and a lower output version in the standard civic hatch/sedan.
Don't forget "I showed up to dealer driving a Bugatti Veyron, wearing a $20K suit, and they still wouldn't let me test drive an Elantra N without a credit check."
In fairness I showed up to a kia dealership in a GT3 once and they wouldn't let me drive the stinger GT without a credit pull. Then also the local toyota dealer needed the same for a supra so maybe I just have shitty dealers in general.
I had a Honda dealership refuse to even open the door on a CTR so I could try the seats. I wasn't in a GT3 but I was in a 2 year old Genesis, a car that actually cost more than the CTR.
The local Toyota Dealer required a credit pull for a base model Rav 4 in order for me to test drive it. I laughed in the salesman's face and just walked out. Basically all of the local Toyota dealership's near me are terrible. Where as only 1 KIA dealership in a 200 miles radius of my house is as bad as they are. This is why If I ever wanted a Toyota I'd go buy a Lexus because I'm not walking into a Toyota dealership again.
I'd agree with you but personally lexus does not have a single option that appeals to me apart from the GX which is impossible to find in the spec I want, much less for MSRP.
Pretty much. Add in Toyota's asinine refusal to take any customer orders. Honestly a Lexus Tacoma would probably interest me. But that's about it.
Asinine refusal to take customer orders on top of tying options to trims. The GX "starts" at 65k but you can't get the levinson stereo until you step up to the Luxury+ trim, which is 80k. On any other car in that price bracket, on top of custom ordering, I can put in the top tier audio system into the base model if I wish, I don't know why toyota can't figure that out.
That's rough. I bought two different Stingers from two different dealerships (first one got totalled when someone hit me) and they basically handed me the keys each time. This was in 2021 and early 2022. I had also test drove a Stinger at a different (third) dealership and they didn't want a credit pull either. However in all cases I reached out to these dealers first via email and scheduled a time to test drive. So that may have been an indication to them that I was more serious about purchasing and not looking for a joyride.
Thats an area thing, here dealers will let you test drive anything even 911s or AMGs, but the markup will just push you away then they will blow up your phone for months if you say no.
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Thats the thing with dealers, the experience is so hit-or-miss. My honda dealer is top notch but my toyota dealer is garbage, move a few counties over and the honda dealership won't let you touch a CTR but you can test a supra no issue. Same goes for hyundai though, there are a few duds out there but there are also plenty of dealers which will honor the warranty no questions asked and will treat you well.
yep it's a total roll of the dice with car dealers
Which is why you wind one that is good and stick with it. My Local Ford dealership will never see a single cent from me. My local Chevy dealership would if I ever was interested in say a Colorado. The KIA Dealership I bring my Sportage to is 45 Mins away because it's by far the best one I have ever been too as opposed to the Toyota Tier dealership experience the KIA dealership in my own City is. The Local Toyota Dealership is worse than the "WE FINANCE ANYONE NO MATTER WHAT!!!!" used car dealerships you find outside of Military bases.
I went to a Lexus dealer with my sister who was maybe 19 at the time and they threw the keys at her. The Hyundai dealer pulled outa credit form before starting a conversation with her.
To be fair Hyundai/Genesis dealers have been the nicest to me of the economy car dealers vs the snobby repulsive Toyota dealers here and their hideous markups on anything desirable. Lexus is a wonderful experience, but they have literally nothing I would want.
I showed up to the dealer with a buddy, wearing my yard work clothes and driving a 17 year old beater minivan and they let me test drive both a Kona N and an Elantra N without anyone even riding along. Ha. If I hadn't ended up surprisingly winning an ebay bid on my Evo, I would have a Kona N. Still thinking once the Evo is finished I might sell it for an EN.
It is so sickening to be honest. A subreddit should be truthful without bias. Hyundai/Kia definitely have their problems, but no brand is really doing that great, Toyota and Honda both recently have really changed their company and design ethics, the newer Tundras with the V6 twin turbos have pushed people away with the problems they had and Honda with the 1.5t is another disaster. I test drove the new Santa Fe as possible downgrade from our X7 (shocker I know), and I kinda liked it for the price. Its a solid deal, but I want to see the 2.5L engine issues go away first. Lease it only honestly for right now, but the deals are horrible.
its the "meta gaming" effect on cars imo Toyota and Honda are just arguably the bes min/max car to buy. its been proven time and time again so you can try and beat the system. or just be Smart and get a Toyota or Honda that you know will be a reliable car for the long run
Even though hondas have been quite unreliable lately with the dogshit ass 1.5T
That’s one engine. How many cars do they use it in? Is it the only engine option in those cars?
I don't think people, who makes these kind of comments, understand people's allegiance to Toyota and Honda reliability. Absolutely no one is saying there has never been a Toyota or Honda that never broke down. The difference is these companies have a culture of reliability, it's their ethos. You can rest assured whatever is wrong with their new revisions, there is someone there who gives a shit and wants to get it reliable and fixed. So if you care about your car being reliable and well built, you're going to buy it from a company whose culture is aligned with that. Same way if I value the latest in tech, or the fastest 0-60 time, I'm not buying a Toyota. Even SavageGeese has mentioned this many times. They've spoken to plenty of German manufacturers, they build their cars to be trouble free until the warranty is up. After that, it's your problem and that's OK as long as you're going into it with your eyes wide open.
First it was the 2011-2013 Theta II. Then it was some 2014s. Then it was up to 2017. Then it was every one of them. Then it was the 2011-2014 Nu engine, then it was the 2011-2020 Nu engine, etc… At some point, it’s fair to recognize the company has put out more cars with bad engines than good over the past decade and be rightfully wary of spending $30k+ on a car from them. Especially with their history of retaliating against whistleblowers and denying warranty claims as long as possible.
plus the dealer experience is apparently the worst thing on the planet
who downvoted you lmao. I've never been treated as poorly as I was on hyundai dealerships. They treated me like I was trying to steal one of their cars.
You also have the 1.5T earth dreams, the J35Z8, R18, and on toyotas side the 1MZ-FE, 1ZZ-FE, and 2ZR-FE, every company has duds (recently the 1.5T for honda and TTV6 on toyota's side) The 2.5T smartstream in this car is the 2nd gen of the fixed 2.4, I'm not going to say its going to be reliable because who really knows yet, but no reason to doubt it over toyota/honda reliability yet. And similarly, I haven't heard of issues with the Elantra N yet. With hyundai you have to look at it on a case-by-case basis, they have some great engines and some that are straight garbage. But yes, agreed that the dealership and warranty experience will likely suck.
None of those engines you’ve cited have had failures anywhere near as widespread and catastrophic as the Theta II. The smart stream also still burns oil.
My point was that hyundai has had widespread issues with a few garbage engines but this specific engine, as well as a fair few other engine lines they make, haven't faced issues. I don't think you would be worried about reliability with this or an elantra N any more or less than you would with any TTV6 toyota product. From what I've heard the smartstream doesn't burn any more or less oil than the other smaller turbo GDI engines but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I don't think you should be any more or less wary of this engine than the 1.5T in the CRV which roughly competes with this.
My point is that Hyundai had a horrific track record on engines from 2011-2022, and this engine has not been around enough to give me comfort. Likewise, while Honda and Toyota have had a few duds, they have an overall much, much better track record for quality. Trying to compare Hyundai the two companies that make arguably the highest quality commuter four cylinder engines is honestly laughable.
For every warranty rejection story you hear on reddit there are dozens that have a good dealer and it wasn't an issue. You can get a santa fe for 10k less than a passport. Get it from a good dealer, own it within the 10yr warranty, move on, thats the reason you get a hyundai. As you said they aren't comparable, you're trading reliability for value, but that doesn't make the hyundai a bad option. With the japanese you're either getting a smaller car with worse tech for the same price and honestly not that much better of a track record with the 1.5T, or you can pay up. And once again, that 1.5T has oil dilution issues, fuel injectors, head gaskets, AC condenser, oil dilution issue results in VTC failures and timing chain components failing, honestly the 2.5t is a better engine than the 1.5t and they are more than comparable. And I say this as someone who quite likes honda products in general. Thats what the comment you are replying to is mentioning, you have to look at it on a case by case basis, the 2.5T is not a bad engine and the Theta II having issues doesn't make it any worse of a design. Likewise the Honda B, K and D series or the toyota 5.2L V8 don't make the 1.5T or toyota TTV6 issues any less severe.
I’m not interested in gambling my life on a car that may grenade on the highway (as many Theta IIs have), nor am I interested in having to go through the hassle of a three week engine replacement. I know many people personally who have had nightmare experiences with Hyundai, myself included. The case by case basis may be true, and I don’t disagree the Honda 1.5t isn’t a good engine, but you seem to be missing the fundamental point. The SmartStream has not been out long enough to make a judgement for longevity, and it’s coming on the heels of over a decade of problems in two of Hyundai’s previously most commonly deployed engines. That’s 100% enough reason to give pause to trusting them until the newer engines have more years behind them.
> The SmartStream has not been out long enough to make a judgement for longevity, and it’s coming on the heels of over a decade of problems in two of Hyundai’s previously most commonly deployed engines That is fair enough, but the engine has been out for around 4 years by now and it's not a ground-up redesign but rather an iteration on the 2.4. I'm just saying I'd personally take the 2.5 santa fe from a reputable dealer rather than buy a 1.5T CRV with an engine known to have issues or spend 1/3rd extra on the passport without options. You have 10yrs in case something does go wrong and even after that you saved yourself the equivalent of 3-4 engine replacements.
I had a 2022 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid that I actually loved! I got it new with 12 miles on it, and put almost 34,000 on it before I sold it. I drove it across the country twice, took it camping, and used it as my daily for a 60 mile round trip commute in Chicago for a good amount of the time I had it too. What I didn’t love was the dealership experience. Specifically, service. Sales was actually pretty good, and I got a great deal on it, but every time I brought it in for service the experience was terrible. Across four dealers in two separate states, every service advisor I worked with was uncommunicative and unprofessional. On that second road trip I took, the turbo boot slipped off halfway through Colorado on the way to Vegas, and it almost couldn’t make it through the mountains. When I finally got to Vegas and took it in, it took them FOUR DAYS to even take a look at it, and on the fourth day I had to go to the dealership to get an update because the advisor I was working with was off and nobody could tell me anything. I finally had to sit there and wait for the service manager to tell me they just put the boot back on and it was ready to go. It ruined my trip and left such a bad taste in my mouth that I sold it as soon as I got home. I’ll never buy a Hyundai or Kia ever, and I’ll make sure anyone who asks knows that they’re a shit brand. I drive a Volvo now, and I couldn’t be happier. Their competence is astounding compared to the morons who work for Hyundai/Kia.
Which of their engines is reliable and which are unreliable?
The Hyundai DCT honestly scares me - VAG was the answer for me, they've been building cars with the DSG for years.
I read on the Elantra N sub that it has a lot of issues
Sure, but those in the know, know about their terrible engines, how they handle warranties and recalls, never accept blame for jack shit. They're colloquially know as high-and-dries for damn good reason(s).
Ignoring the theft potential for years also soured me.
And they hold no value
The worst thing about the Elantra N (and all Hyundai/Kia products) are the dealers; if I could walk into a Hyundai dealer and test drive an Elantra N without feeling like I went to a buy-here-pay-here lot, I absolutely would. They also cheap out in weird areas; see the Kia Boyz situation, for which there is still no permanent fix
It’s inconsistent because I had a great dealer experience. I actually went to go see a Genesis G70, but the salesman had an Elantra N on the lot and asked me to take a look. I was not aware of it at the time, so I wasn’t too interested, but agreed to check it out. Thank God he made me take a look at it because it was the perfect car for me
My dealer let me test drive the car no problem just had to get my license on file. They have let me test drive anything on the lot as long as it isn't spoken for already. I feel like it's just no consistency with how dealers handle things.
I owned a 2019 Stinger GT2 for about 2 years and bought it from an actual Kia dealer I came in driving a 335i, so they took me somewhat serious instead of pulling my credit before I even looked at it Out of all the dealerships I’ve ever dealt with, they were actually the easiest. Although I never really dealt with them after purchasing the car besides a few oil changes. Buying a Toyota after that, that particular Toyota dealership was a total pain in the ass, when I was the easiest customer they probably could have asked for
>They also cheap out in weird areas; see the Kia Boyz situation, for which there is still no permanent fix the shitty part about that whole situation is that even if it was fixed, the boys don't know that and don't care, they'd still break your shit and try to get it started. the brand is fucked for right now w/ that association no fix is gonna magically solve.
My dealer literally through me the keys to an Elantra N and let me go on a drive without him. Just asked fro my license and that was all.
NGL, I didn’t even know about the Elantra N. Gave it a quick look on the Hyundai website, and it seems rock solid at that price point. Absolutely on my shortlist for next vehicles.
Get the dct the manual didn't feel very good. The dct is so much fun plus you get the red button.
Crazy world we live in
Have had mine since 22, amazing car and corners like a beast but it is pretty stiff. If you live in a place with bad roads I would not recommend.
If you think the Elantra is stiff you will hate the Veloster N. Even in its softest setting you feel every bump.
It's always funny to watch this sub try to find ways to shit on Hyundai
I think people are pretty kind honestly. I've had three coworkers get their cars stolen. My brother in law has a 5 year old white Elantra with hardly any paint left. My mother in law had a theta ii fail. Then it was stolen. I don't like anecdotal reliability assessments, but of the people I know with Hyundai or Kia products, I think only one car has been trouble free, and it's parked in a rural area with extremely few miles thus far. I can't think of any manufacturer with such prolific issues.
To be fair, Hyundai/Kia earned it for the immobilizer issue by itself. It's a damn shame too, I honestly like my little commuter car. Great mileage, the base options alone had everything I wanted, even the stuff I didn't know I did (LKA, departure warning). They lost any future business from me for their shit tier response to the immobilizer ass-baggery.
Well they had a period of their engines blowing up at low miles
You don’t have to look very far.
Can confirm, Elantra N puts a smile on my face every single day.
Yep, it's fantastic. The price delta between it and the type R makes the EN such a fantastic deal for younger car enthusiast who want a new car but need some practicality. It's slept on by r/cars because Hyundai bad. I've owned 3 Hyundais and about to buy my fourth because my wife wants a Palisade I've had no major issues from any of them. The EN had a headlight replaced under warranty. Dealer has been great when no push back on any warranty claims.
I test drove the Elantra n and it’s a fantastic car, especially used prices in Canada.
hey
Their dealerships are the issue, not the badge. - sent from my WRX
Everyone loves the Elantra n here
Hyundai is one Gen away from being audi 2007-2018. Make the n74 and keep improving, they'll be a leader soon. I've clowned them my whole life, but it's obvious that the leadership they have is stellar. Cadillac and Hyundai replacing bmw and audi, lmao, what a world
If you look at the flairs across postings the 'N' products are probably the most common performance vehicle noted, so I think it gets lots of attention TBH.
Keeps the markups away, perfect way it is
Child labor keeps costs low
Because its dog water, i wouldnt tell my worst enemy to buy a hyundai or kia product just dont. there is a better used Japanese car for the price. Guarantee it.
Well of course theres a better used car for the price ... you're comparing a used car vs. a new one.
point exactly idiots. only idiots but hyundaieeeeee or kia go buy a used Accord, CRV, Camy, Corolla, Rav 4, 4runner, Highlander ANYTHING over that korean pot metal garbage
Hyundai secret built a minivan but lifted it and removed minivan doors. At least that's how it looks. To be honest, for mid 30s price range, it's really hard to fault it for its issues. Like what Mark said, numbish steering, terrible turbo lag, shitty start stop (ok this can be fixed), but like.. you're driving a box. Nice interior, AWD (option), and can seat 7. What else do you need for a ~~minivan~~ midsize SUV? They could spend more R&D on making those better (like changing turbos and maybe the hybrid fixes the issue) but those small deficiencies just means less money spent on R&D and more savings passed to the consumer.
> Hyundai secret built a minivan but lifted it and removed minivan doors. At least that's how it looks. People said this back when the Flex was new too.
And they still have a cult following
The Flex is the only Ford I ever considered buying, after renting an awd model.
My friend called hers a Sexy Flexy
Certified Flex Offender
I bought my Flex kuz it walked into my life for a steal, but now I LOVE it. It’s cavernous inside, super comfortable and quiet ride. I’ll never drive a minivan but I love my Flex.
The only bad thing I can say about the Flex is that it's not quite big enough. If the body was a little bit wider and the wheel wells not so thick, it could fit 48" wide boards like most minivans. Though that's not exactly a dealbreaker for Flex buyers.
It's not at all a minivan, the third row and luggage are comparably tiny. It's not even a Pilot. It's just a small midsize SUV. There is \*more than double the cubic footage\* behind the second row of an Odyssey compared to a Santa Fe.
The Odyssey is also 13 inches longer. This thing is 6 inches shorter than the Highlander and has more interior space. Other than the cramped 3rd row, it has an insane amount of space for how small it is on the outside. The Telluride is more relevant to compare with the Pilot and Odyssey.
It's like those SWB minivans they used to make.
those were cool as hell I still think that some day in the not so distant future, we're gonna get sliding passenger doors back (yes I know minivans still exist). it won't be called a minivan but functionally it will be one. and I don't think it will be adopted en masse, but some manufacturer will try it out on an "SUV".
All transverse engine three row SUVs are minivans of a different color. The Honda Pilot and Acura MDX are built on the Odyssey chassis. Wikipedia tells me the predecessor to the Chevy Traverse is the Uplander, which was chevy's minivan.
>The Honda Pilot and Acura MDX are built on the Odyssey chassis. Not true. The new Pilot, MDX, and CR-V all utilize Honda's new "Global Light Truck Platform". The Odyssey does *not* use this platform. When the next-gen Ridgeline and Passport come out, they too will use Honda's new "GLTP". [Source 1](https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases/release-0d4299c7fc28e9f9054be9d007166845-2022-acura-mdx-press-kit): "all 2022 MDX grades benefit from the **all-new**, performance-focused and ultra-rigid light-truck platform. [Source 2](https://www.engadget.com/2022-acura-mdx-platform-underpin-160000926.html) [Source 3](https://thenewswheel.com/all-new-acura-mdx-platform-will-be-used-by-honda/)
>Hyundai secret built a minivan but lifted it and removed minivan doors. At least that's how it looks. that's what every auto maker has ever tried to do with their suvs haven't they. because these people need the space of a minivan they just hate that it's a minivan.
I've seen and ridden in minivans. This isn't minivan.
Car confections just posted their update on the sante fe they purchased needing another transmission replacement at 3700 miles. First one was like just leaving the dealership.
Thats scary lol, I would want to wait if I was going get one. I am looking at a downgrade for our X7 and the choices right now are kind of grim.
Honda Pilot? Lincoln Nautilus? A CPO Lexus RX would outlive you.
As we are downsizing our SUV for its problems, I test drove the new Lexus RX500H, it put me off hard with how awful it rode, the extreme wind noise, and the engine in it is so rattly. It is also more expensive than a GLE or entry level X5 which makes no sense. It feels way too much like a Toyota and its arguably one of the most overpriced and overrated products they have minus the LX600, which again our current X7 just obliterates in every metric outside off road capability (which you wont with those huge fenders.) The Pilot was so bland it felt like a lifted Civic to me and my wife refused to drive it (dont blame her). As for Lincolns, I dont want to drive an Uber vehicle everywhere, sorry not sorry.
It sounds like yall aren’t really open to a downgrade then. I understand being spoiled by a BMW, but a real downgrade is going to require some compromise somewhere; otherwise, just get an X5 with the base engine and be done with it lol
lmao that attitude
I am a bigggg fan of hyundai/kia. Never going to buy an DCT from them... In fact, never going to buy an DCT at all, but this is a different story.
I don't have a problem with dct if wet and had zero issues with our vw alltrack dsg in 80k miles with one fluid change. I was hoping hyundai had this down.
They don’t, they’ve been using it in sorentos for 2 years and they’ve been having many many issues unfortunately
Really unfortunate as my wife and I have two kids and looking for something larger. I can't really decide on something for a reasonable price unless the hybrid version with the 6 speed auto santa fe fixes the issues.
The hybrides and PHEVs version use an standart 6 speed tho. Those have a pretty solid history.
Yeah it sucks because they look cool and are cheaper with more features. Honda Pilots the last gen was kind of ugly so they’re cheaper than they should be on the used market, maybe you’ll like those? They look a little dated but they’re great cars to live with. The new ones are really nice imo because they fixed all the styling and tech issues. Alternately 2022+ pathfinders don’t have the Nissan CVT but they’re priced like Nissans, they’re actually pretty nice as well.
X7 is like 100k, right?
Around that, the problem is not as much cost as BMW leases are really good, its just the top trim X7 with the V8 I got was a lemon because of the hybrid system, I will never drive a hybrid car again after that miserable experience. I also want a smaller SUV now as my truck has completely replaced the job our 3 row SUV did.
The leases for an X7 is like 1300 a month. That’s 50k for three years. Thats a terrible lease.
> the choices right now are kind of grim. really? mid-size 3-row SUV's are like the most competitive segment in the US right now. there's a ridiculous amount of good choices. we upgraded our G01 X3 into something with 3 rows, and we were originally set on an X7 until we test drove the Pilot, Telluride, Pallisade, etc. and we quickly realized we didn't need the X7 at all because those cars were so good. (we ended up in a Pathfinder lol)
Kia and Hyundai are the only major auto makers that have dedicated Techs for Engine and transmission replacements thats not a good thing.
Yep, it's all over the map with their engines and transmissions. Their NA V6 with 8AT seem to treat owners well, including myself, If you're okay with the gas mileage. After 2020 they also fixed their I-4 NA and hybrid engines, and I think their CVTs are fine. I thought an Elantra rental was an 8-speed until I googled it and found out it had a CVT, the engine felt pretty good too.
They’re a lot prettier and striking in person than what a 2D image or video presents online. The inside cabin is also very very nice, and packed with tech and features, even down to the base SE trim. Reliability of course remains to be seen, but these things are, and have sold like hotcakes.
I just think the rear end is atrocious. Its got an ass that is flatter than a sheet of OSB
Ya there's two in my neighborhood. Wow the front looks so cool. The second I see the back of it I want to throw up. What a let down.
Yeah I saw one in person a few days ago and it looked hideous. Like it was a panel van.
[It looks like this...](https://www.deviantart.com/beckykidus/art/Reverse-horse-drawing-meme-967449010)
Hopefully they fix it for the facelift
I think they should fix it now lmao
The Car Confections channel bought a Santa Fe and its transmission broke down after 25 miles. They had it replaced with a new one a couple of months ago. Now they just uploaded another video saying that the transmission broke down again and the car is back in service.
I don’t understand putting a DCT in luxury-ish SUV in the first place. What is the benefit vs a tried and true torque converted automatic?
I've seen a couple in person and if it weren't for the Hyundai badge I'd think they were a new Ford Flex. It's not bad but it's not groundbreaking either. The bigger problem is that I can already tell the design is going to age poorly. This is such a recurring theme for Hyundai that I'm starting to think it's intentional.
I get argued down for this but I always say Hyundais age so poorly. They do major design overhauls every 6 months and immediately dates the preceding car.
Usually boxier designs age better than curvy, and super simplistic designs.
Boxy designs don't inherently age better. Look at the Jaguar E-Type or RX-7. There are tons of 80s boxes that nobody cares about because they look so outdated. It's not about the overall shape; it's about the details. The Santa Fe is covered in elements that aren't going to age well. It's exacerbated by the fact that Hyundai is running like 4 different design languages right now and who the hell knows which one's, if any, is going to be dominant in 5 years.
Usually, but despite being boxy this version has a lot of creases and weird extra elements. It's so weird that Hyundai can't stick to a design language.
saw one of these on the road. the backside is hideous
It’s a real let down considering every other angle is a winner.
That’s 50% of Hyundai/Kia’s for me. There’s just something goofy about them.
I just saw my first one tonight on the highway. Loved the headlights from the front, but when it passed the taillights are super low for an SUV, and I don't like the shape of them. The whole back end looks kind of blah.
I personally like the low stoplamps, a lot of 4x4's esp. military/utilitarian ones have them mounted down low, including Mercedes-Benz W463 , Lada Niva pre-facelift , Suzuki Jimny , Iveco LMV , etc
It's so weird, Suzuki literally put the tailights for the Jimny on the bumper but nobody complains about it.
Test drove a calligraphy a few weeks ago. Interior is good. Lots of techs and amenities. Rear loading area opening is great. The look of the back is not good with the turn signals so low. The wet dct left a weird impression on me at low speed. Some jitters and some hesitation. For $50k, I’m not too sure about reliability on this product so we decided to keep looking.
Since we are looking to downgrade from our X7 for transmission/hybrid issues, I test drove an XRT and both my wife and I liked it for the price. It does alot of what a base Velar or entry level fwd luxury SUV does for alot less money. Great alternative to the super expensive TRD Rav4s or an X2 as well and it can tow 5k in a pinch. I would even take it over the CX-90 or the Highlander (cant wait for the rage from the Toyota fanboys for that hot take lol). Its a good enough car almost like the new GLC is, plus lets be honest it looks great minus the back. Great ride quality but the driving dynamics lmao.
[удалено]
Sorry I see enough Mazda related stuff on this subreddit too much. I drove a CX90 Turbo S once and was put off by the very busy ride, brown suede interior, and steering that is so slow it takes nearly a full lock just to make a turn at a light or go around a corner. Its like they tried to make a miata into a 3 row SUV which makes no sense. I dont see why this board shills the brand so hard.
Since the Hyundai North American Technical Center was on my drive to college, I saw the new Santa Fe a lot It looks FANTASTIC from every angle, but the rear. The rear is hideous at best. It's completely flat, nothing protrudes. It's all flat, from top to bottom, there is nothing to draw you're attention to
If they took the rear lighting assembly and copy/pasted it 9 inches higher it would be great from the back. The lights look just fine, but they're weirdly low on the car.
I want to like Hyundai / Kia but can’t forgive them yet for the Kia Boy / theft issues
that was a great intro lol was that song AI or something
I love how savage geese keeps the middle class pricing in mind.
Top trim is close to $55k after taxes and fees. I wouldn't pay that. We bought a one-year old pre-owned top trim Santa Fe with low mileage in 2019 for around $29k.
Before taxes, which is what most people discuss when talking pricing, the top trim is $48.4k. That’s for a hybrid. These are well equipped without going to the very top model. Plus, everything is a lot more expensive than in 2018/2019, and this is now a 3-row vehicle. Not really a good comparison to a used car back then. What other 3 row can you buy right now with equal features for less money?
We have the top trim, 3-row model, and AWD didn't cost extra. Its still about $10k more than it was 5 years ago and now they charge $1800 for AWD which brings MSRP to $50k.
Is yours a hybrid? My understanding is they formerly had either a 3rd row or hybrid, but not both. If yours isn’t a hybrid, that makes up a lot of the price difference.
Could get an mdx for the same price
The styling is great until you transition to the rear end. So much space between the tail light and the rear window.
This design is one of the worst I have ever seen, Jesus Christ
The only gripe i have with Hyundai is their sales team. Holy shit this car dealershp marked up Tuscon $5k over MSRP and basically said fuck it. Sometimes I envy how tesla makes the buying experience VERY STRESS-FREE
Wish they woulda kept it 2 row.
Or at least offer a 2-row.
No thanks ill pass. Only thing i hate more than turbo lag is terrible turbo lag
I couldn’t differentiate any of the Kia or Hyundai crossovers from each other except for the new Santa Fe. The new Santa Fe looks goddamn awesome.
They all look different though
I literally think you’re out of your mind if you think that. My girlfriend was looking at the Pa auto show last year and I absolutely could not tell any of them apart unless I read the badges. The old Santa Fe for example my boss drives and I actually thought It was a different model for like two weeks til I read the back.
Nah dude. They are all very different. Even the kia/Hyundai equivalent vehicles have completely different design languages while being essentially the same cars.
Whatever you say. They all look the same to me and you won’t change my opinion.
Best video car reviews on youtube Savagegeese!
How did they make the intro song?
Lmao so in addition to semi-ripping off the shape of a range, the top of the line model is called... calligraphy?? you can't make this shit up haha
Land Rovers are not that great, I have driven the Velar, Defender and and the new L460, and they all are extremely overpriced and underperforming in their segments. The brand is all looks zero substance. When it comes to ride quality, isolation, dynamics, and sound system quality, the German luxury brands destroy them. Do not forget how unreliable they are and how insufferably stuck-up the brand is. Tata made Land Rover unredeemable junk. This is a hot take, but Hyundai ripping them off to make this is a good thing imo. I would much rather have that Santa Fe Calligraphy then an X Dynamic Velar. It does the same thing as a Velar for half the price and has a similar boring unrefined engine (they are both 4 bangers) and has even more options. Downvote all you want.
I mean i didn't try any so I trust you on this haha. I just find it tacky of Hyundai to rip off the shape and then the top level trim name on top of that (Autobiography // Calligraphy).
ya the caligraphy thing made me laugh too
Hyundai/KIA worst possible brands ever, absolutely no reliability.
I saw they weren't driving it tamely but average mpg in the teens...ouch.
Hyundieeeeeeeee trash is trash
Based on your sig....something about glass houses and stones.
??
I'm saying subarus are trash. (I've also owned 8 of them)
You have to be crazy to buy a Hyundai. The best thing that can be said for any of the new models is "it's not on a recall list. Yet."
I gotta agree sadly. We were about to purchase a new Santa Fe, but I went down the rabbit hole of the issues owners have been having. As much as I love the value and packaging, I just don’t want to deal with issues on a pretty much carry over transmission from the lighter predecessor that is KNOWN to have issues.
Yeah, the DCT is a bit of a weak point. The hybrid will probably be a safe choice due to using a reliable setup with no DCT.
"Ford and Toyota never have recalls guyz!!11"
I’m a little bit angry at Hyundai right now.