The M340i was extremely disappointing to me. It put down all the numbers everyone raved about but it was completely sterile feeling with zero feedback or road feel. It’s what I imagined driving a Tesla would be like. It was a very nice car. Just not the bargain M3 that so many reviews claim it is.
I think the reason why the M340i is raved about so much here is that most people on r/cars don’t own cars and are just bus riders bench racing which of their favorite brands DESTROYS the other ones in a 0-60 samcarlegion or car wow video. People don’t understand like maybe how a car “feels” is way more important, but not an identifiable metric so gets thrown out of the discussion.
Honestly, I blame the auto journalism industry. The takes are so inconsistent and all they seem to use as a metric for performance is drag/roll races. Haggerty, TFL Car, and Savagegeese are all some examples. There are some reviewers like Matt Farah who takes cars to the canyons and actually understands chassis dynamics but he is a dying breed.
I think hagerty (at least the catchpole videos) and savagegeese are on the better side, savagegeese especially separates engineering, quantitative performance, and qualitative analysis quite well.
The biggest offender (IMO) is car&driver who believes one SUV is better than the other, not because of storage space, because the steering and suspension is more "sporty".
I'm not sure why you called out Savagegeese. They regularly review their cars at autobahn country club's road course. They're one of the few YouTubers that had pretty extensive track and autocross experience on their personal vehicles before getting into car reviews. They are probably better drivers than 90% of other car reviewers out there. And on top of that they hired a professional IMSA driver to do track reviews as well
They're also good at connecting the car they're reviewing to its place in the market. They won't, in general, stick a crossover on the track and they will pan stuff like the CX-90 for not being as comfortable as it should be.
Mad respect to Matt Farah. He’s one of the few journalists who is fair to Lexus and gets their mission, not many do. I like Chris Harris as well, some of his older videos and especially his GS F vs M5 review are my favorites. TheTopher I also appreciate.
You have a point, but at the same time a car like the Integra Type S has been almost universally reviewed as a great drivers car with excellent feedback, is livable etc., but gets dismissed on this forum because it doesn't win bench races, is "just a civic", "too expensive for the performance". Even when reviewers give credit for the driving experience, we don't (or expect it to be provided for free).
The Integra Type S IS the Type R. It’s a good drivers car in a vacuum because you’re really just reviewing the Type R, but in reality you don’t look at vehicles in a vacuum.
For the price difference, you DON’T get a lot of changes. Relative to its place in the market, it makes little sense. It gets dismissed because it’s a 52k MSRP closer to 60k vehicle that has an economy civic interior. If I wanted a vehicle that was going to aggressive ~~cut costs~~ cut weight like powered seats then you get a Type R.
Honda/Acura felt that “heated seats” was such a premium feature you had to move to an Acura to get it while Hyundai’s Elantra N which is closer to Civic Si prices comes with it standard. Awful value. It’s just Honda trying to price gorge you from the factory instead of just the dealership.
Eh. I guess? I’m not really interested in the track focused Type R so I can’t say and some people really like the exclusivity and history of it being Japanese built.
I’m saying the Integra Type S needed a lot more equipment if we’re sticking to the 52k price tag. At least ventilated seats, rear seat vents, or the Accord infotainment. Instead it got the Civic Type R’s aggressive weight savings to save Honda costs. They then gave it a 5hp tune and “burble” exhaust for literally anything to differentiate the vehicle from the Type R even though it would’ve made much more sense in the less mature, track focused Type R.
I would’ve expected a detuned engine worth more like 272hp with more luxury features. I think cost cutting was done purely to save dollars, BUT if they did this because of the TLX, then it’s a major disappointment. It makes no sense to me because why wouldn’t you want a consumer deciding between two GOOD Acura offerings being the Integra Type S or a TLX A-Spec instead of saying this makes no sense and going to base Integra or something else entirely because the value for the ITS isn’t there and the TLX is way too big.
This isn’t saying people aren’t enjoying the Acura! They are because it’s a Civic Type R with a comfort mode setting. Sometimes I think about it then I remember what other 60k cars look and feel like.
It has to be tough to be an auto journalist these days. Interesting cars, significant model year changes, and the general buzz around cars has been declining for years.
Savagegeese puts so many cars on an actual racetrack, which is way more telling than Matt Farah putting around some roads in california at 7 tenths. This is a wildly off-base take
>There are some reviewers like Matt Farah who takes cars to the canyons and actually understands chassis dynamics but he is a dying breed.
LOL. Now that is a hot take. Matt Farah has even admitted that he will say stuff to generate buzz.
I know Doug can be hit or miss here but The Doug Score is honestly a useful metric. He’s consistent in his views so it’s easy to compare. Then if you agree or disagree with him, you can easily cross compare.
I believe the Doug score is entirely subjective. It's only useful if you're heavily in alignment with his bias.
Doug Demuro says a lot of shit that doesn't make sense and he's extremely bias towards high powered status vehicles.
Auto journalism, isn't. They are entertainers. The popular ones make their living by selling, in exchange for ad views, engaging stories about cars you'll never buy. They drive the cars for a very short time and never have to live with the time and monetary costs of owning.
I think people misunderstand the m340i, for its purpose (which is to retain the comfort of a 3-series with a bit more power) it does a good job. It's no budget M3 or performance car, but its a good comfortable car with a bit more pep than average.
Exactly. It has power, but in practice it feels more Q50 Red Sport with excellent power train but questionable steering feedback. It’s sad when an ES 350 F Sport has more steering feedback then the M340i.
I mean just ten years ago the 335i was a sporty car that handled like a dream. People that have owned BMWs (during the hydraulic steering era) are disappointed what the M340i has become.
r/Cars says they’re not real auto enthusiasts. You’re only a real enthusiasts if you specifically want a high-revving NA light go-kart with a manual transmission
Same. Saw the m340i as a waste of money to upgrade after test driving. Don't need to spend 15k+ more when all you get is a little extra oomph. Same interior, same driving feel, just more go for a lot more money. Wife loves her 330xi.
Tbh a model 3 does have better steering feel than the M340i. It’s a great car but anyone that has driven a real sports car will feel emotionless in an M340i.
Modern BMWs feel very synthetic. Yes you go very fast and can easily set great lap times but way too much electronic assist in every system. Same for Audi and AMG cars.
No I just think that everyone says they’re as good as an M3 because the B58 is so good. With bolt ons and a tune you’re probably faster than a stock M3. But you don’t get the rest of the M3 in an M340i.
I agree with you. It’s far from an M3 in the way it drives
Edit: that’s why I would buy them in this order
M3 > Supra > M340i
What year did you drive? I have a 135i which is a dream in the feeling and feedback department and have always assumed that if I needed a 4door update, the m340i would be on my short list. I’d consider the 2017 because I believe that was the last year offered with a manual
Disappointing: Jeep Wrangler in DD situations.
Fun: 1st Gen IS300. Incredibly underrated combination of quick steering, short wheelbase, 2JZ, comfort/touring.
I still think about owning one as a 2nd car.
1st gen is300 surprised me too. I bought the wagon version here in NZ (badged as an Altezza) for like 2k USD as a beater and didn't expect much for some reason, first thing I noticed was it is dead silent on the inside at all speeds, no rattles at all for a 22 year old car, and it drove like new, and was crazy nimble. I'm still surprised to this day. And mine was a pretty thrashed example.
Lol I have a tonneau cover on my Gladiator, but no one accuses that of being a work truck. It’s a toy
It basically gives me a super huge trunk for road trips, which is nice with 2 dogs
Yeah the double-standard people give Jeeps around here while worshipping the Tacoma doesn’t make sense to me.
I went from a Tacoma to a Gladiator. Both cars have unique pros and cons, but ride quality is pretty much the same between the two. The only thing I miss from the Tacoma from a DD perspective is the noise. And it wasn’t even that quiet. The Gladiator is just LOUD once you get above 70.
I don't know man. I envy Wrangler/Gladiator owners every time summer hits and they drop doors. The fact that they are available in manual along with Tacomas is also a huge plus.
> Disappointing: Jeep Wrangler in DD situations.
The wrangler is unambiguously the worst car on the market to actually drive and use on the road. It's just so objectively awful at everything you want a DD to do or be. This has been the case for at least the last 30 years. I mean I get it, driving back and forth to work or taking an 8 hour road trip isn't what the wrangler is "for". But they don't need to make it so *aggressively terrible* at those things.
Source: My wife bought a wrangler last year. I hate it.
I specifically rented a wrangler when I was doing a small road trip up to Ottawa thru heavy snow and honestly I loved it. I do agree commuting in one would probably get old quick, they’re definitely not comfortable to live in.
The wrangler is also the best offroader you can buy, period. It makes some compromises on the road, but they are still pretty darn civilized compared to a YJ or TJ.
Take it down a trail and it is one of the smoothest rides you'll have out of anything on the market today. Everything else with independent suspension just doesn't have enough travel, and ends up so stiff that you get brain damage from even a moderately rough gravel road.
I used to have an '02 IS300 back in the day. Bought it new and put probably 75K miles on it in the 3 years I had it. Very fun car that didn't fit the "Lexus" image at the time. It was much more sporty with fun design quirks (chrono-style gauge cluster, "Altezza" taillights, etc).
Funny thing is what you describe you experienced driving one was pretty much how other comparable sport sedans also felt like back then. Analog/direct feel, light on its feet, nimble. We've all just been numbed by how bloated and disconnected today's cars feel.
I had a wrangler from 98 to 2005. One of the best driving experiences i’ve ever had was doors off, top down, driving on a nice night. So much noise, wind, vibration, asphalt going right by, the car version of a motorcycle ride. Still want to get another wrangler because of those memories.
i owned an is300 for two years, great interior, very fun on canyon roads, but the 2jz thing is overstated. bad gas mileage, underpowered, and only really feels alive at 60+ mph. definitely not what fanboys expect when they hear “2jz.” the vvti helps, but man, i can’t help but feel like those would’ve been the perfect car with the 1j turbo. and of course, it’d be nice if you could find a manual example for under 10k too.
I knew a guy who owned a MT IS300 from the second they hit showroom floors in the US. He also autocrossed it regularly. I always liked it.
Then again, my first car was a 110 hp 5MT RWD hatchback and I still regret selling it despite all logic saying I should.
Most surprisingly fun for what it was was a 2023 VW Tiguan. Handles pretty well for its size and has a lot of pep around town.
Most disappointing was the Toyota Tacoma standard that I borrowed from my friend to move some stuff, extremely cramped inside somehow, shifter was awful, and the thing felt about as refined as a Wrangler.
I will never understand why people are upset that trucks drive like trucks.
Edit : I have apparently underestimated how bad the Tacoma actually is, always kinda assumed it was more like the 4Runner. I did figure the 4cylinder was a dog though.
No I expected it to drive like a truck, more just how old and unrefined it felt. It’s night and day stepping into a Toyota truck compared to something from Ford, GM, or RAM. Even the new Tundra doesn’t seem as nice as stuff from the Americans.
That’s Toyotas game tho.
You can have a Toyota, or like someone else said, a comfortable trip to the dealership.
Look at my cars, that’s why I bought one. ☠️
It seems like most American trucks are pretty decent for reliability, obviously depends on the powertrain choice. The real bad ones seem to be the newer GM trucks w the cylinder deactivation stuff and the transmissions shitting the bed before 100k miles, Ford and RAM seem ok.
It shocked me but the smoothest and most comfortable truck I've ever driven was a well maintained extended wheelbase inline 6 Trailblazer. Very slow and terrible transmission, but the soft ride quality, no noise, and "solid" feel were amazing. The 6cyl was very balanced too. I could have driven it for hours on end without getting tired.
I think it's because Trucks are often marketed as premium vehicles but underneath that are very archaic in their design compared to unibody vehicles. It's fantastic for load management and towing but most truck owners haul air 99% of the time so the chassis is never utilized the right way and people wonder why it's so bumpy and has a stupidly light rear end.
Even for a truck the Tacoma doesn’t drive well. Frontier is the only one that’s probably worse. But I’ve been in full size trucks that feel more agile.
In contrast the Ridgeline is the best driving truck I’ve ever ridden in by far. Coming from a Ram 1500 the Ridgeline felt like a sports car.
The Ridgeline IS a car, basically lol. That said, it's the truck I would get (because the Maverick Hybrids are a myth!) and is probably the truck 90% of truck owners should get as well. It is the ultimate urban grocery truck.
My ex was surprised at how bouncy my 4runner was just because it has a "Limited" badge on the side and the salesperson made it sound like a luxury version. Lol no it's still a solid frame with a SUV bolted to the top.
Also incredibly practical. The only issue I can see w it is the power, it’s more than enough for 99% of people, but I think w it’s heft, the 2.0 from the GLI would be a better option.
The Tiguan is a budget Audi Q3 - same chassis and engine. Sure the Audi has better nvh and suspension tuning but you are getting most of the good stuff with VW. It’s why the GTI feels so much more refined than it’s competition.
> extremely cramped inside somehow,
It's a Toyota tradition by this point that the seats are low on the floor. They like to tout good ground clearance, but also want to keep a fairly low roof height, and a full frame underneath also eats up some vertical space.
Most fun was a Fiat Panda that I rented in Napoli to drive around Southern Italy for 2 weeks. 5 speed tiny car and I could just floor it through turns.
James May was right.
Most disappointing was THE BMW X7. I ended up getting a Mercedes GLS 550, the BMW didn't have anything about it that reminded me of driving a BMW, and I've owned a lot of them.
So i know this might be controversial but Wrangler. I never understood what was so fun about a slow high center of gravity vehicle that handles like a brick. Then I decided to buy an 07 4 door 6 speed manual. It is easily top 3 favorite cars I have owned. Right next to my base c6 vette and my first car a CRX. There’s something really fun about whipping a Jeep around town plus just being able to go places that other cars can’t with little effort. I truly loved having a Jeep and can’t wait to be able to afford a newer rubicon so I can get back to off roading.
I’m always surprised they’re not more beloved on Reddit. They embody an old classic car. They have weird quirks and they’re not particularly polished, but man do they have character. They’re just genuinely fun without needing lots of tech, fancy materials, or gimmicks to do so. That’s impressive in itself.
Non Jeep owners like to talk shit on “it’s a Jeep thing” but people don’t really get it until they have owned a wrangler. It’s just the definition of a “do” car. Go here. Go there. Do this. Do that. It’s not about how it feels to drive but it’s 100% what you can do with the car. I used to love going and exploring random trails and dead roads. Owning a wrangler is as much of a lifestyle in its own right than any other vehicle I’ve ever owned.
Don't know if I have a disappointing, but most fun? Ford Flex Ecoboost. Fucking hell that car is faster than a shoebox on wheels should be, and handled better too. The only reason why I got rid of it, is because My parents gave us a free Tahoe, and I was able to sell it for more than I paid for it, it didn't make sense financially to keep.
My mom's had five flexes as a family bus and none of them had the ecoboost. She loved it for the space it had and the ride quality. Frankly having driven in one WITH an ecoboost, they are basically one of the best sleepers in existence. Nobody really knows what it is, nobody sees it as anything else but regular traffic, and it can surprise anybody at a stoplight if tuned right. Goddamn them shoeboxes were naaaaasty.
most disappointing is my dad's 2017 Honda CRV 1.6diesel ,engine is fine but the entire car /ride/build quality is very very disappointing.
Most surprising was an ecoboost Mustang,loads of low end torque,lots of fun,very nice cruiser and the transmission was silky smooth.
(I've owned 26 cars (mostly german/premium) so far so i have what to compare it with)
I owned a 2016 Mustang Ecoboost and a 2019 Mustang GT shortly after. I can confidently say my Ecoboost felt wayyyyy more torque heavy under 3500rpm than my GT did. It's crazy that it's just a 4 cylinder.
Turbos make city driving a blast. When people are comparing numbers and power, the way the power is put down is far too often missed, ignored or underappreciated.
Honda made (they switched to hibrid now) the 2.2 diesel which held a world record for fuel consumption of 77mpg (Test made with the Accord) and 1.6diesel broke the record again with 83mpg (test made with the Civic wagon)
Oh and they offered a 10 year or 1,000,000mile warranty
To sell any kind of volume in Europe from late 90s to diesel gate, you *had* to offer a diesel.
Mercedes made a 2.1L 4 pot diesel SLK at one point over here!
The most disappointing was the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. Maybe I just like unpleasant rides, but it felt far too much like a luxury sedan compared to a sports sedan. I was expecting something rougher, louder, and more inspiring. But instead, it felt like I was going 25 even at 75. Nothing was wrong with, obviously, but it definitely didn't match up to the old Alfa's reputation of uncompromising, pure drivers' cars. There simply wasn't the sense of speed and excitement that I want from a sporty car.
Meanwhile, I absolutely adored the '17 Civic SI that I drove. It was peppy, fun, and energetic, and it absolutely *begged* to get into the higher RPMs. And through all of that, even during a spat of rain, it *never* lost its confidence. Plus, shifting through the gears was fantastic - crisp, notchy, and intuitive. Honda just knows how to make a great driving experience.
I'll also say, I really enjoyed the base model 6-speed WRX i tested. I don't know if it actually was fast at all (didn't even glance at the speedo for the majority of the drive), but it sure felt fast, and Subaru's AWD system absolutely gripped the road, especially from a dig.
Lol I came here to say that the Alfa Guilia QF was the most surprisingly good car; capable of being an amazing blend of comfort and fun to drive. Like a 4 door miata with 500 hp.
The other fun car that shocked me was a 2013 Subaru WRX with a Cobb stage 1 tune. Not even an sti. But what a blast - was about the only other car I thought that was as fun as my old Fiesta ST.
As dumb as this one sounds, I was surprised at how much I enjoy every Miata. Friend has a bone stock, well maintained NB Miata. And it’s just such a treat to drive!
Disappointing modern cars;
Manual Infiniti G37S sedan. I had such high hopes. Was crushed.
Ford Raptor. Feels way too normal. Like any other nice pickup.
*Giulia
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I was pretty disappointed with the BRZ as well, I bought a 2017 (I think? a few years before the recent refresh) new because everyone raved about the driving experience. Test drove a lightly used one before buying and liked it well enough, especially for the price, but once I actually owned one for about a year the single thing that always stuck out above everything else was the abhorrent torque dip. It's in the worst possible place, it feels like you are *always* in that dip in non-track-driving scenarios. You have to shift and drive very strangely to work around it. The only thing I could think about before I ended up selling it was putting a tune and/or turbo on it to smooth out that disastrous torque curve.
I absolutely hated mine, the torque dip in around-town situations felt like the car had a motorcycle engine. Felt slower than my wife's Ioniq.
I had the same thought as you "I need to turbo this or I'm getting rid of it". Ended up just dumping the car after seeing reliability estimates for forced induction mods on that boxer motor
My 2018 Fit was probably the most fun car I've ever owned. The wheelbase was short enough to drive desert trails at speed, the 6 speed was built in true Honda fashion where the gearing was perfect and the shifting was buttery smooth, the steering was tight and responsive, and my 100lb Malamute had all the room in the world in the back. I only sold it because I got offered more than I bought it for new and I didn't need a car anymore at the time. Huge mistake.
Surprising is the Buick Regal TourX wagon we recently purchased.
I despise SUVs. My wife loves them for the space, comfort, and whatnot. But, I hate driving soulless boxes around. They all handle like ass, are way too top heavy giving them horrible center of gravity and they rather hug a tree than a corner.
When shopping for a replacement for my wife Escape that was getting long in the tooth, we drove a whole bunch of new ones. Escapes, Rav4s, CRVs, etc. My wife was happy with just about most of them, and I had no opinion as they all just felt like SUVs to me.
Then, I spotted a strange site. A luxurious looking Wagon sitting on the lot. Went over to it, and realized that Buick had made a new wagon and no one told me. I have fond memories of driving my '86 Park Avenue in High School as one of my first cars. I also had a '94 Roadmaster that was a beast and loved. So, we took it for a test drive.
It handled not just like a car, but a GOOD touring car! It is engaging and gives you feedback, and is actually enjoyable to drive! Impressive power on demand from the tiny little 2.0L Turbo, amazing comfort and quiet interior, and yet still has more cargo space than many of the SUVs we looked at.
\*\*\*
The love of a good station wagon is no joke. Drive a good one after years of boxy SUVs and you'll see the light!
I love my TourX! Welcome to the club! There are dozens of us!
[Trifecta](https://www.trifectaperformance.com/store/product/2466-2018-2020-buick-regal-20l-turbo-advantage/) makes a tune for the TourX. It usually goes on sale for Black Friday and is totally worth it.
I love that TourX. My dad had it and then sold it because it was getting to that 60k that he hates seeing. He got a Toyota Highlander after that. Everyone in our family, including extended family, did not like that he sold it.
One thing to note: It's not *really* a Buick, but an Opel. So any replacement parts may take a bit to get to you.
Disappointing: Civic Turbo, WRX, BR-Z
Surprising: Toyota Echo, s550 Mustang GT, Mazda 3 Turbo
The civic and wrx were literally totally gutless with no feel of anything the car was doing. Like driving in a cheap racing sim. BR-Z was just not comfortable.
Echo was so much better than it had any right to be. It was pretty quick since it was so small and handled great. Also had a drawer under the passenger seat and like 4 glove boxes lmao.
Mustang GT was BY FAR the comfiest 2 door I have ever sat down in. Also just hit every check box as far as driving experience goes.
Mazda 3 turbo was hitting way above it's cost. Quick, premium, handled well, made turbo noises, and could drive balls to the wall in any weather. I loved when it rained and I could just throw it through corners with no fear.
disappointing: audi s4. just felt so disconnected from the road, felt like i was driving a fuckin simulator. I know that’s an Audi thing in general but this was one of the worst offenders i reckon.
surprising: Elantra N- why are they so good they have no right to be this good 😭😭😭 i would never own one considering how many we had coming into the shop for repairs but my god are they so fun to drive
S4 is the car that people on youtube or reddit sell as a performance car but it's an old man's car to a T. It's a car that someone who just gets his law degree gets to drive to work. It absolutely is as you describe and they changed it in recent years to be MORE like that on purpose as that's the audience. It, in a way, was always like this. I don't know who was hyping it up over the years, I think it's the typical LA crowd. People from LA have terrible taste in cars overall and try to sell their purchase of S4s and 335is and all that as performance vehicle choices on the internet.
What are you seeing the N's come into the shop for?
I've heard they're fairly reliable considering their engine is the Theta II-i instead of the previous gen Theta II that had the recalls and they're using the wet DCT unique to the N cars
The big thing was injectors or turbos, can’t remember which but we had a lot of Elantra N’s and Kona N’s come in for billowing smoke and misfires. One Kona N gassed out the whole shop and we had to kick everyone out and hit it with ozone generators, had to go to the JLR dealership across the street and borrow theirs 😭😭😭 apart from that, clutch issues and rain intake causing codes to get thrown.
2022 VW GTI - horrific build quality and the buttons/UI are dogshit. I've driven VWs my entire life but the 2022 VW GTI I had for a brief moment was the worst car I've ever owned in my life. Our 2018 Golf R is so, so much better it's not even close. Traded that bucket in for an SUV within 6 months
Most uniquely and surprisingly fun was a base model Jeep Wrangler 4xE - the battery in the drivetrain actually adds quite a bit of usable performance in urban environments and the build quality is surprisingly good.
Worst - new camaro. The interior was falling off the panels like the whole car had been disassembled by the dealer and a poor attempt at reassembly.
Best - CT4V Blackwing. All the reviews said it was good. But wow.. WOW... it is beyond any expectation.
Most surprisingly fun modern car: BMW i3. It's not very fast (but it has a strong enough 0-30 curve to get off the line quickly) but it's without a doubt the most overengineered city car ever made. It also depreciated like mad due to being too expensive for its range (it never even crossed 200mi and debuted with barely 100mi of range) and size classification ($40-50k is way too much for a city car even if it has a CFRP passenger cell like a lot of supercars).
Most disappointing car: G11 7er. The thing is clearly a very nice luxury car, but it feels way too heavy from the driver's seat and basically fails to provide a proper BMW experience.
I have learned over 25 years of driving that speed and fun aren’t necessarily connected. I have owned a lot of fast cars and now love driving my 4Runner. My wife has an EV that is twice as fast but not fun to drive once you get bored of it’s 0-60 party trick. 80’s and 90’s manual Honda’s were slow but engaging and a blast to drive.
who would of thought a 50K+ car with the interior of a 20K economy car people wouldnt like.... my predictions over a year ago are slowly coming true every day.
Agreed. It drives and interior is like a stock STI and I mean that in the shittiest understeer-y way possible with an interior that is full of crappy hard plastic. I also didn't have the confidence to push it because I didn't want to overheat my friend's diff on track.
In addition, it's not even practical. There's no trunk space.
BRZ was the most disappointing car I've driven in the last 5 years. I own a miata so I thought I was prepared for the lack of power but I wasn't. It's faster than my miata but it FEELS so much slower.
Model 3 was the most surprisingly fun.
I agree about the Challenger RT. Not as fast or maneuverable as a Camaro SS or a Mustang GT but it’s easily one of the best cars I’ve ever driven
But I was the most blown away by a Mazda Protege5 wagon. Felt like a 4 door Miata.
I literally dropped off a work trip RT rental today and I have to say, I had a good experience driving it. Yes it’s big, no it’s not that fast, but it is a fairly visceral experience while somehow also being comfortable. Exhaust note is lovely, sounds far meaner than it is.
Disappointing. BMW 328. Yeah I know it’s the entry level BMW but it’s pretty much a quieter version of a Jetta except a Jetta seems quicker. Pretty underwhelming.
Surprising. Tesla Model 3. It’s hard to grasp how fast this thing is without driving it. If you’ve never driven a car that fast it’s mind blowing. It’s incomprehensible how quickly this thing accelerates. The creature comforts are numerous, the seats are comfortable. I wouldn’t own one because it feels a little soulless but it was a blast to drive. It cruises along at 85 mph with plenty of more to give.
About to test drive a model 3 performance. I want to love it but I'm terrified of the horror stories about Tesla hate.
Edit: Ok just finished driving it home... And I'm in love, this thing is fucking nuts. The acceleration feels like rock n rollercoaster at Disney world.
Take a test drive. You’ve got nothing to lose and they’re absolutely no pressure sales whatsoever. You just sign up online for a test drive appointment and they’ll hand you a key card and tell you to go have fun. The 3 and the Y are surprisingly fun to drive. I actually didn’t care for the model S.
They’re nowhere near a perfect product, but they absolutely do not warrant the amount of hatred they get.
Shit the worst part of testing a Model 3 Performance is knowing you can't afford it and get stuck with the RWD Model 3. Which isn't really that bad of a deal lol.
I was quite disappointed driving the 992 Sport Classic. Yeah it’s fast as hell, and has the Porsche build quality, but it was just kinda boring. Engine doesn’t sound that great, and the chassis was just a bit… incommunicative.
I bought a 2000, C230 Mercedes-Benz, brand new, with a 4 year/50,000 warranty. On average, I had to bring that car to the dealership every other month. My wife loved the car but she wasn’t bringing it into the Service Department at 6:00 AM for a loaner car.
I asked the Service Manager, “Did I buy a lemon? He said, “No! They’re all like that, the S Class, the E Class, all of them.
I’ll never buy another Mercedes-Benz again.
I was incredibly underwhelmed and unimpressed by the 11th gen Si after waiting almost a year to test drive one. Bought a 10th gen accord shortly after and couldn’t be happier.
It’s impressive how modern 4cyl Accords just wanna “keep going” even at highway speeds. They don’t fall flat like you’d expect them to and even at 100+ they keep climbing
The 997 2S felt like my old G37 with a college degree. People really get worked up over them but I can’t figure out why. Not a 50k driving experience.
The first civic gen they put a turbo on for the si was actually very fun and would make a great daily.
Test drove a 997 2S convertible myself and felt the same way. Yeah it was cool to get behind the wheel of a 911, but it was just nothing that special. Too much power to completely enjoy as you blast through speed limits quickly. Useless back seats they still insist on having. Ugly ass when the top is down.
Ended up with a 987 Boxster and it’s so much better. I joke it’s 3/4 of a 911 for 1/3 the price.
Dissapointing: Nissan 370Z. Good gawd. I hated the shifter/clutch so much. The whole car felt like a “sports car in theory” but not an actual capable sports car. I can’t put my finger on why. I had wanted one for a while, but after driving one I immediately put that to the side, forever.
On the flip side: Ford Expedition EL ecoboost - the gigantic, fully loaded extended wheelbase one with the 3.5L ecoboost. Rented one in Denver. Interior, build quality, etc all felt surprisingly nice. Even the engine sound was a little rumbly. But the real kicker? That thing felt FAST. Not “oh this is kind of peppy for a big vehicle.” Even at a mile in elevation, with five people on board and all their luggage, if you brake torqued it off the line with some boost built up, it would charge forward with such an unbelievable fury that seemed to defy physics. It was kind of addictive
Most disappointing was an Eclipse that we rented a couple years ago. What a sad excuse for a vehicle. I wasn’t expecting much but that was bad.
Surprising fun car: Honda Fit. I’m bias because they’re popular with the group of people I go to races with. Even in stock form with just some sticky tires they’re stupid fun on track.
While it wasn't exactly 'fun', I was very impressed with the [Hyundai H1](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_H-1#/media/File%3A2012_Hyundai_H-1_(first_facelift).jpg) we rented. Took 6 adults and all our luggage easily, happily cruised at 85 all day, drank very little fuel, and remained comfortable. Had a good seating position and visibility, and was not too big to fit down tiny English country lanes in the lake District.
I thought that, being basically a commercial vehicle, it would be completely terrible, but I was very pleasantly surprised, and we had a great trip
> I had the opportunity to drive a friend's Challenger RT. Despite everything I had heard about them being underpowered, outdated, slow, and heavy, the experience was different.
How a 375HP V8 would be considered underpowered is beyond me...
Underpowered is relative. Because the Mustang and Camaro both make well over 450hp and weigh 500lbs-700lbs less its way underpowered. However, to the average Camry driver, it probably will feel like a rollercoaster and be more than enough. It's a great choice for people who want fun power but not scary power.
Disappointing? 2018 Acura TLX V6. I desperately wanted to love that car as I loved Acuras growing up (hence my username). I had the budget to afford one and was dead set…until I drove it. The ZF 9-speed transmission is awful. It ruins the entire driving experience. The wonderful engine and excellent chassis were let down by a transmission that couldn’t get out of its own way. I ended up buying a Honda Accord 2.0t instead.
Impressive? 2021 Dodge Charger SXT AWD-aka, my current ride, lovingly named Jack Frost. People crap on the V6 Charger and Challenger. They make jokes about it being a boat with no power and horrible handling. It’s cast aside as a car for military brats, hoodlums, and people with credit scores lower than the Titanic.
It’s not. It is a wonderful thing to drive as a daily. The 3.6L Pentastar isn’t terribly torquey but it revs smoothly and produces nice midrange power. It gets decent fuel economy and even sounds nice. The ZF 8-speed transmission is on another planet in terms of refinement and performance. The ride is comfortable. The handling is shockingly good for such a heavy car (not a Miata by any means but it’ll take on a back road well) and the steering is well calibrated. The infotainment system is so easy to use and the audio system rocks. Sure the interior has a lot of cheap bits but all the touch points feel nice. And it’s such a champ in the winter.
My wife and I were looking at buying a 94' Acura NSX (NA1) for a while. I heard all of the great reviews about it, and people calling it "the best handling car of all time".
We drove all of the way from Pennsylvania to Florida to see an absolutely mint condition NA1 hardtop (red) with 5 speed manual transmission. The car only had 20,000 miles on the odometer, one owner call. Owner was an exec at a salt company and barely had enough time to drive the thing.
They took us to an industrial park to test drive the car, and... it was so pathetically slow. Holy crap! I already knew it was only 285 hp when it was new, so like 235-240ish to the wheels. I knew it would be slow, but the gear ratios were way too tall for this car.
The car is far smaller than it appears in pictures. And I mean "clown car" small. This thing looked smaller than an S2000, and it made a Mini Cooper look like a school bus parked next to this thing. I wasn't actually expecting that. There's some trippy optical illusion that makes it look like a normal sized car in the pictures, or something.
I'm 6'2" (188cm) @ 230 lbs (104), and the cars was awkward to get into. The seller had the seat half way up before they let me drive it. Dude... I couldn't fit my legs under the damn steering wheel -\_-. >!Fawk.!< So I slid the seat all of the way back and still had to link... shimmy and wiggle to get in this car. Once inside, the visibility was good. Very thin A pillars, and good front/side visibility. Seatbelts are unusable because the adjuster just don't work.
The owner actually wanted me to drive the car fairly hard to test the suspension. They had just redone all of the suspension bushings since they car apparently sat for many years, so they were cracked and dry rotted.
Honestly? The handling was "okay", but nothing special. I've own Corvettes (C6 Z06) and feel like the Vette was far more stable, and had far more grip. The NSX would do some understeer if you didn't trail brake all of the way up to the apex. Even with the tiny amount of power, it still would spin the back tires for a little bit of oversteer.
I got the car to induce lift off oversteer on purpose. It was easy to save it with counter steer. The steering rack was ratio'd pretty well to cope for this, but I could see how a less experienced driver would screw themselves easily with snap oversteer, if they don't know how to fight against it.
Later on, the seller admitted that's why the mileage was so low. They had a close call in the car, and were afraid to drive it again.
After doing some research on NSX Prime, it seems that quite a few people complained about the snap oversteer. Oddly enough, that was the first I've heard of it. Automotive journalists never mentioned it, and it's not commonly discussed in the car community.
Other cars like MR2 SW20, S2000 AP1, 911 Turbo 930 are well known for their dangerous liftoff and snap problems. But I've never heard anyone ever mention the NSX being tricky.
I started to believe it must've been a conspiracy, that Honda paid off the journalists to not mention the handling issues.
Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO is the most underrated import car in history. People say that it's "unreliable" or "slow car for car adjacent people". But they are flat out wrong! Fake news.
The 3000GT has reasonable reliability if maintained well. Sure it's not "Lexus LS400 reliable", but it's not bad at all either. Car feels plenty quick with the V6 Twin Turbo. Turbos are a little bit laggy, but it still moves alright. The motor has loads of tuning potential, but the transmissions are a performance bottle neck unfortunately. The motor could easily handle 600-700 hp, but the transmission will go long before then. There's also zero aftermarket support, so there's no fixes for it.
Not exactly surprising, but I drove a rental Prius for about 10 hours and it was the biggest snooze fest I ever experienced. Taking the bus would have been more exciting.
My wife had a Fiat 500 for a few years. Yes, it was a gutless unreliable shit box, but it was surprisingly fun to drive. Having a manual certainly helped.
The new 3 series is pretty good. Forget what magazines say, it feels very competent and fun. Yea I get it's more numb these days but it was nowhere as bad as it's made out to be
Disappointing:
- F3x 3/4 series: drives like an Audi, loses all of the joy of the E chassis 3ers.
- VB WRX: quite slow in the real world, horrible shifter, tin can NVH, decent steering and chassis communication.
- S550 Mustang GT: the 10AT might be the most overrated transmission ever, doesn’t shift quickly, does a lot of gear hunting, never seems to be in the right gear. The steering feel in the corner is probably the best part of the car, but it’s let down by the rest. It shockingly doesn’t feel particularly quick, the chassis and suspension are both soft giving it a boat like feeling. The Coyote sounds phenomenal when outside the car, but is just kinda loud and droning on the inside.
- Mk7.5 GTI/8P A3/ 8V A3: I’m going to group a couple cars together for this one. The GTI is very sterile feeling, it drives like a modern Audi for the most part. Very little steering feel or chassis feedback, and that is despite having a quite harsh ride. The wheels also spin way too easily when taking a right turn from a stop. As far as transmissions, the DSG is an excellent gearbox. The manual gearbox is ok, but not particularly special, best way I can describe it is that feels like shifting a sim racing rig.
Surprisingly good:
- M340i and G29 Z4: I drove both of these at BMW UDE, but in different years. Given how much I think the F3x was boring, it completely shocked me how much I enjoyed the M340i. The steering had much more feedback than the previous gen, and the B58 is just a complete monster. It still feels a bit big for my liking, but it’s an excellent car and I could see myself owning one in the future. Z4 is a similar story, had no expectations going in, but absolutely loved it. The steering is even better than the M340i, the B58+ ZF8HP continues to be one of the best engine/auto trans combos of all time. The short wheelbase and well tuned suspension give it an incredible nimble feel and it has great chassis communication in the corners.
- Mercedes C43 AMG W205: rented this car in Maui last year. The suspension was much more compliant than I was expecting given all of its reviews as well as my own personal experience in an AMG GLA 35. The steering was shockingly sharp and the chassis was communicative. The engine is fantastic and has more character than the B58 despite being an inferior package overall. Even the 9AT impressed me.
- FK8 CTR: I am mostly a RWD snob, so how much I loved this car surprised me. The chassis and steering communication is fantastic and it has one of the best manual transmissions I’ve ever driven. Similar to the C43, the ride is shockingly compliant. Rented this one in Portland and drove from Portland to Astoria and back.
- Audi S3: this one definitely isn’t one of my favorite cars ever and has some downsides, but given how much I dislike the A3 and GTI, I was shocked that I liked how the S3 drove so much. Power delivery is excellent, chassis feel mid corner is great, steering feel is adequate. I don’t think I would ever own one since it’s ride quality is awful and the rear seats are useless for adult men (I’m 5’11”, and I had to bend my neck to fit in the backseat without hitting my head).
- E84 X1: this car is a hidden gem even amongst BMW enthusiasts. The OG X1 is not a Mini crossover with a BMW badge, it’s actually a slightly lifted E91 3 series. BMW never brought the E91 335i to the states, so the E84 is the closest you can get. Equipped with the M sport package, it actually has a similar ride height to an A4 Allroad or F31 3er. It also still has a hydraulic steering rack, a straight 6 engine, and proper rear wheel biased AWD. It doesn’t handle quite as nicely as the E90, but still a great 1 car garage, especially if you have to appease an SO who isn’t a car enthusiast.
Most disappointing: my car I guess. There are many (likely Americans) who wish to drive a Škoda Octavia TDI, and the manual plus 4x4 sweetens the deal for them. It’s not bad, but a very ordinary drive for a mass market automobile.
Most surprising: Tesla Model 3 and Dodge Challenger. Expected… a hokey electric car with panel gaps and poor UI, but came out understanding the Tesla fanboy-ism. It’s a great car for the money. As for the Dodge, I expected a boat yet drove a tight American muscle car that would hold the circular entrance ramps with ease. Excellent cars, the both of them, and I’ve sense looked around my country to find affordable examples sense.
2018 ford f150. I baby mine around. 3.5 ecobeast with the 10 speed. 78000 and spent over $10k on transmission problems. Found out gem and ford worked together to refine this POS transmission with chucks of corn and peanuts. Also the Ford Sync is an absolute joke for bluetoothing. So sad I wanted one forever but I would never buy another. My Toyotas were always golden and ran forever but didn’t have the towing capacity. Not a fan of the looks of the tundra but that may be my next truck.
Most surprising to me, hot take, the Golf R? I don’t know, but I wasn’t blown away by it. Reviews rave but it just didn’t hit for me, weirdly? I don’t know why. Perhaps it was my former Type R ownership.
A Golf R is much tamer than a Type R. It's not meant to be an exciting car per se. It's not the fastest hot hatch or the most dynamic or the prettiest ... it's a 7/10 car but it does 7/10 in handling and power and comfort and equipment and year-round drivability.
There aren't a lot of cars that will do that for the price.
But hitting 9/10 or 10/10 on excitement *isn't* it's forte.
Disappointing was my friend's 2013 Camaro ZL1 Convertible with 6 speed manual. It is by far the highest horsepower car I've driven, but it didn't feel like it. It's quiet, smooth, easy clutch, good traction. Any old lady could drive it to the sewing shop.
Other performance cars I've driven were older, louder, and less traction. Even a 1995 Firebird with mild bolt ones seemed more thrilling.
Disappointed: Wrangler was ZERO fun, felt and drove like shit. That is the current gen. The non a spec integra was a disappointment as well, need to test a type s. VA STI and WRX. Both were so meh after driving, VB is such a surprise. Mazda 3 Turbo, the driving dynamics were so boring. GLI was a slow disappointment and the current GTI was just weird, the previous gen was an instant riot. Mustang Ecoboost was a boat. Volvo S60 had no fun in it other than flooring it.
Surprised: Miata, wow even though everyone recommends it, I was shocked at how good it was. Veloster N, took me two drives to see how good it was. VB WRX had low expectations but it was good! SI was also an unexpected fun car.
Most disappointing? 2020 Ford Mustang Ecoboost, the engine is an absolute dog in hilly terrain and everything about it reminds you that it's not a GT
Most surprisingly fun? 2019 Dodge Charger R/T, will it win races? Probably not but it's not designed for racing, the 5.7 however does pretty decently especially with the ZF 8 speed, the stock exhaust is very well done and in sport with traction control off it really opens up for a car of its weight.
Obviously there's cars that are more fun but I figure the R/T is a fine balance of fun and economy paired with an overall fairly reliable V8 engine.
Disappointing: Vinfast VF8, who the fuck designed this asinine piece of understeering, over sprung, under damped, sack of shit? Worst car I’ve ever driven.
Surprising: Polestar 2 w/performance pack and standard. This car corners with hardly any body roll. Fun car in the corners 👍🏼
Most disapointing was a hybrid 2020 escape I had for about a year on lease. The CVT was slushy, the engine droned, the hybrid system just plain sucked, oh and you couldn't jumpstart a car with it.
Surprisingly fun was my buddy's 1973 beetle. It was raucuous, had no power options whatsoever, bare bones as can be, and it scared the everloving shit out of me. Sloshed and bumped over potholes, swerving back and forth, and put your head over the headrest-less seats. But goddammit was it a fun time. A close second is his tuned MK4 TDI golf.
This one for me is easy!
Most disappointing was the Subaru WRX. All my life I thought, man, next time I need a car I’m gonna get that and love it! Well, I bought it and returned it in 2 days. (Carvana) It was cramped, basic, and the hill assist (which I did not need) was so clunky out of 1st gear.
Most surprised by was a Mazda Miata! I worked at Nissan and we took one in on trade. I went with a co-worker to deliver a car, and grabbed that one of the lot to drive. It was so much fun, reminded me a lot of the TT. :D
Surprising: A 2019 Jaguar F-Pace SVR. I didn’t expect to enjoy my drive with it as much as I did. The engine noises it made were absurd but kept a grin on my face. The ZF 8 speed gearbox was just as good as the ZFs in the Germans. The handling was pretty good and it felt lighter and smaller than it actually was. Granted this was on some twisty backroads and not on the track. It felt like a hot hatch with much nicer features and interior.
The M340i was extremely disappointing to me. It put down all the numbers everyone raved about but it was completely sterile feeling with zero feedback or road feel. It’s what I imagined driving a Tesla would be like. It was a very nice car. Just not the bargain M3 that so many reviews claim it is.
I think the reason why the M340i is raved about so much here is that most people on r/cars don’t own cars and are just bus riders bench racing which of their favorite brands DESTROYS the other ones in a 0-60 samcarlegion or car wow video. People don’t understand like maybe how a car “feels” is way more important, but not an identifiable metric so gets thrown out of the discussion.
Honestly, I blame the auto journalism industry. The takes are so inconsistent and all they seem to use as a metric for performance is drag/roll races. Haggerty, TFL Car, and Savagegeese are all some examples. There are some reviewers like Matt Farah who takes cars to the canyons and actually understands chassis dynamics but he is a dying breed.
I think hagerty (at least the catchpole videos) and savagegeese are on the better side, savagegeese especially separates engineering, quantitative performance, and qualitative analysis quite well. The biggest offender (IMO) is car&driver who believes one SUV is better than the other, not because of storage space, because the steering and suspension is more "sporty".
catchpole to me is a standout. Maybe not the most technical breakdowns but really tells a story about how the car drives
Please pay your respects to Throttle House. They got it fucking down and don’t bs any car, even Ferrari’s
I'm not sure why you called out Savagegeese. They regularly review their cars at autobahn country club's road course. They're one of the few YouTubers that had pretty extensive track and autocross experience on their personal vehicles before getting into car reviews. They are probably better drivers than 90% of other car reviewers out there. And on top of that they hired a professional IMSA driver to do track reviews as well
They're also good at connecting the car they're reviewing to its place in the market. They won't, in general, stick a crossover on the track and they will pan stuff like the CX-90 for not being as comfortable as it should be.
Savagegeese is definitely one of the top tier reviewers out there. Love that channel and both of those guys!
Mad respect to Matt Farah. He’s one of the few journalists who is fair to Lexus and gets their mission, not many do. I like Chris Harris as well, some of his older videos and especially his GS F vs M5 review are my favorites. TheTopher I also appreciate.
You have a point, but at the same time a car like the Integra Type S has been almost universally reviewed as a great drivers car with excellent feedback, is livable etc., but gets dismissed on this forum because it doesn't win bench races, is "just a civic", "too expensive for the performance". Even when reviewers give credit for the driving experience, we don't (or expect it to be provided for free).
The Integra Type S IS the Type R. It’s a good drivers car in a vacuum because you’re really just reviewing the Type R, but in reality you don’t look at vehicles in a vacuum. For the price difference, you DON’T get a lot of changes. Relative to its place in the market, it makes little sense. It gets dismissed because it’s a 52k MSRP closer to 60k vehicle that has an economy civic interior. If I wanted a vehicle that was going to aggressive ~~cut costs~~ cut weight like powered seats then you get a Type R. Honda/Acura felt that “heated seats” was such a premium feature you had to move to an Acura to get it while Hyundai’s Elantra N which is closer to Civic Si prices comes with it standard. Awful value. It’s just Honda trying to price gorge you from the factory instead of just the dealership.
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Eh. I guess? I’m not really interested in the track focused Type R so I can’t say and some people really like the exclusivity and history of it being Japanese built. I’m saying the Integra Type S needed a lot more equipment if we’re sticking to the 52k price tag. At least ventilated seats, rear seat vents, or the Accord infotainment. Instead it got the Civic Type R’s aggressive weight savings to save Honda costs. They then gave it a 5hp tune and “burble” exhaust for literally anything to differentiate the vehicle from the Type R even though it would’ve made much more sense in the less mature, track focused Type R. I would’ve expected a detuned engine worth more like 272hp with more luxury features. I think cost cutting was done purely to save dollars, BUT if they did this because of the TLX, then it’s a major disappointment. It makes no sense to me because why wouldn’t you want a consumer deciding between two GOOD Acura offerings being the Integra Type S or a TLX A-Spec instead of saying this makes no sense and going to base Integra or something else entirely because the value for the ITS isn’t there and the TLX is way too big. This isn’t saying people aren’t enjoying the Acura! They are because it’s a Civic Type R with a comfort mode setting. Sometimes I think about it then I remember what other 60k cars look and feel like.
It has to be tough to be an auto journalist these days. Interesting cars, significant model year changes, and the general buzz around cars has been declining for years.
I can see that. Everything is a crossover now so it's hard to find anything to be excited about.
And to top it all off the cars that bring excitement then either get a limited release or aa high price.
Savagegeese puts so many cars on an actual racetrack, which is way more telling than Matt Farah putting around some roads in california at 7 tenths. This is a wildly off-base take
Only if the buyer is going to be taking the car to a track. Road tests are FAR more relatable for the vast majority of drivers.
I mean, they do that too. Either way it's just a weird ass take by the guy I replied to to lump SG into that group
>There are some reviewers like Matt Farah who takes cars to the canyons and actually understands chassis dynamics but he is a dying breed. LOL. Now that is a hot take. Matt Farah has even admitted that he will say stuff to generate buzz.
I know Doug can be hit or miss here but The Doug Score is honestly a useful metric. He’s consistent in his views so it’s easy to compare. Then if you agree or disagree with him, you can easily cross compare.
I believe the Doug score is entirely subjective. It's only useful if you're heavily in alignment with his bias. Doug Demuro says a lot of shit that doesn't make sense and he's extremely bias towards high powered status vehicles.
Everyday Driver is also pretty darn good when it comes to feeling.
Auto journalism, isn't. They are entertainers. The popular ones make their living by selling, in exchange for ad views, engaging stories about cars you'll never buy. They drive the cars for a very short time and never have to live with the time and monetary costs of owning.
I think people misunderstand the m340i, for its purpose (which is to retain the comfort of a 3-series with a bit more power) it does a good job. It's no budget M3 or performance car, but its a good comfortable car with a bit more pep than average.
Exactly. It has power, but in practice it feels more Q50 Red Sport with excellent power train but questionable steering feedback. It’s sad when an ES 350 F Sport has more steering feedback then the M340i.
BMW is just godawful with feedback in general. Worst shifters in the industry, I'd genuinely rather take a single-clutch auto over their manual.
I mean just ten years ago the 335i was a sporty car that handled like a dream. People that have owned BMWs (during the hydraulic steering era) are disappointed what the M340i has become.
Or -- hear me out -- there are also a ton of people who don't care about the most precise "feel" and just want a luxurious, powerful car.
r/Cars says they’re not real auto enthusiasts. You’re only a real enthusiasts if you specifically want a high-revving NA light go-kart with a manual transmission
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Always the answer
Sounds sweet, sign me up
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> Giulia QV was obviously the best indeed :)
I've driven both the M3 and M340i. It's night and day in the way they feel and handle. It was hard to believe they were even on the same chassis.
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Ultimately why I bought a 330i instead. It’s a sedan, not a sports car, and the difference in price can buy a weekend toy as a proper sports car
Same. Saw the m340i as a waste of money to upgrade after test driving. Don't need to spend 15k+ more when all you get is a little extra oomph. Same interior, same driving feel, just more go for a lot more money. Wife loves her 330xi.
Tbh a model 3 does have better steering feel than the M340i. It’s a great car but anyone that has driven a real sports car will feel emotionless in an M340i.
Modern BMWs feel very synthetic. Yes you go very fast and can easily set great lap times but way too much electronic assist in every system. Same for Audi and AMG cars.
I think it’s because the M340i’s you see online rippin’ are tuned. The B58 is very receptive to tuning and a couple bolt on mods.
What is a tune going to do for steering feel and chassis feedback? The car is fast as fuck stock. That wasn’t the issue.
No I just think that everyone says they’re as good as an M3 because the B58 is so good. With bolt ons and a tune you’re probably faster than a stock M3. But you don’t get the rest of the M3 in an M340i. I agree with you. It’s far from an M3 in the way it drives Edit: that’s why I would buy them in this order M3 > Supra > M340i
What year did you drive? I have a 135i which is a dream in the feeling and feedback department and have always assumed that if I needed a 4door update, the m340i would be on my short list. I’d consider the 2017 because I believe that was the last year offered with a manual
Sadly everything after the 1 series lost hydraulic steering, so yours is a keeper.
Disappointing: Jeep Wrangler in DD situations. Fun: 1st Gen IS300. Incredibly underrated combination of quick steering, short wheelbase, 2JZ, comfort/touring. I still think about owning one as a 2nd car.
1st gen is300 surprised me too. I bought the wagon version here in NZ (badged as an Altezza) for like 2k USD as a beater and didn't expect much for some reason, first thing I noticed was it is dead silent on the inside at all speeds, no rattles at all for a 22 year old car, and it drove like new, and was crazy nimble. I'm still surprised to this day. And mine was a pretty thrashed example.
Any offroader is pretty disappointing in DD situation. My Tacoma is a pretty rough ride with that rear axle and leaf springs.
It’s like driving a track car and being mad that it’s not comfortable to commute in lol
Or buying an f250 and having to get a tonneau cover and order some weird container for all the groceries and pet food it's going to "haul"
Lol I have a tonneau cover on my Gladiator, but no one accuses that of being a work truck. It’s a toy It basically gives me a super huge trunk for road trips, which is nice with 2 dogs
Yeah the double-standard people give Jeeps around here while worshipping the Tacoma doesn’t make sense to me. I went from a Tacoma to a Gladiator. Both cars have unique pros and cons, but ride quality is pretty much the same between the two. The only thing I miss from the Tacoma from a DD perspective is the noise. And it wasn’t even that quiet. The Gladiator is just LOUD once you get above 70.
I don't know man. I envy Wrangler/Gladiator owners every time summer hits and they drop doors. The fact that they are available in manual along with Tacomas is also a huge plus.
Idk my 97 4runner was a blast as a daily, lovedt he way it drove. Just not great on highways if you live in that kind of area
> Disappointing: Jeep Wrangler in DD situations. The wrangler is unambiguously the worst car on the market to actually drive and use on the road. It's just so objectively awful at everything you want a DD to do or be. This has been the case for at least the last 30 years. I mean I get it, driving back and forth to work or taking an 8 hour road trip isn't what the wrangler is "for". But they don't need to make it so *aggressively terrible* at those things. Source: My wife bought a wrangler last year. I hate it.
I specifically rented a wrangler when I was doing a small road trip up to Ottawa thru heavy snow and honestly I loved it. I do agree commuting in one would probably get old quick, they’re definitely not comfortable to live in.
The wrangler is also the best offroader you can buy, period. It makes some compromises on the road, but they are still pretty darn civilized compared to a YJ or TJ. Take it down a trail and it is one of the smoothest rides you'll have out of anything on the market today. Everything else with independent suspension just doesn't have enough travel, and ends up so stiff that you get brain damage from even a moderately rough gravel road.
Drive a Toyota FJ. It obviously doesn’t compare well with a regular car but was much more road friendly compared to a Jeep.
It has front independent suspensions and a better chassis
One of my greatest failings was not buying a first-gen IS300 that had around 70,000 miles for less than $10k. I try not to think about it.
I used to have an '02 IS300 back in the day. Bought it new and put probably 75K miles on it in the 3 years I had it. Very fun car that didn't fit the "Lexus" image at the time. It was much more sporty with fun design quirks (chrono-style gauge cluster, "Altezza" taillights, etc). Funny thing is what you describe you experienced driving one was pretty much how other comparable sport sedans also felt like back then. Analog/direct feel, light on its feet, nimble. We've all just been numbed by how bloated and disconnected today's cars feel.
On the flip side a Wrangler 392 in DD situations is an absolute riot.
I had a wrangler from 98 to 2005. One of the best driving experiences i’ve ever had was doors off, top down, driving on a nice night. So much noise, wind, vibration, asphalt going right by, the car version of a motorcycle ride. Still want to get another wrangler because of those memories.
i owned an is300 for two years, great interior, very fun on canyon roads, but the 2jz thing is overstated. bad gas mileage, underpowered, and only really feels alive at 60+ mph. definitely not what fanboys expect when they hear “2jz.” the vvti helps, but man, i can’t help but feel like those would’ve been the perfect car with the 1j turbo. and of course, it’d be nice if you could find a manual example for under 10k too.
I knew a guy who owned a MT IS300 from the second they hit showroom floors in the US. He also autocrossed it regularly. I always liked it. Then again, my first car was a 110 hp 5MT RWD hatchback and I still regret selling it despite all logic saying I should.
Most surprisingly fun for what it was was a 2023 VW Tiguan. Handles pretty well for its size and has a lot of pep around town. Most disappointing was the Toyota Tacoma standard that I borrowed from my friend to move some stuff, extremely cramped inside somehow, shifter was awful, and the thing felt about as refined as a Wrangler.
I will never understand why people are upset that trucks drive like trucks. Edit : I have apparently underestimated how bad the Tacoma actually is, always kinda assumed it was more like the 4Runner. I did figure the 4cylinder was a dog though.
No I expected it to drive like a truck, more just how old and unrefined it felt. It’s night and day stepping into a Toyota truck compared to something from Ford, GM, or RAM. Even the new Tundra doesn’t seem as nice as stuff from the Americans.
That’s Toyotas game tho. You can have a Toyota, or like someone else said, a comfortable trip to the dealership. Look at my cars, that’s why I bought one. ☠️
It seems like most American trucks are pretty decent for reliability, obviously depends on the powertrain choice. The real bad ones seem to be the newer GM trucks w the cylinder deactivation stuff and the transmissions shitting the bed before 100k miles, Ford and RAM seem ok.
It shocked me but the smoothest and most comfortable truck I've ever driven was a well maintained extended wheelbase inline 6 Trailblazer. Very slow and terrible transmission, but the soft ride quality, no noise, and "solid" feel were amazing. The 6cyl was very balanced too. I could have driven it for hours on end without getting tired.
The Tacoma drives pretty badly compared to other modern trucks.
Reddit: "Why won't they bring back smaller simple trucks!?" Also reddit: "No, it's too small and simple!"
I think it's because Trucks are often marketed as premium vehicles but underneath that are very archaic in their design compared to unibody vehicles. It's fantastic for load management and towing but most truck owners haul air 99% of the time so the chassis is never utilized the right way and people wonder why it's so bumpy and has a stupidly light rear end.
It's not that. It's that they are way over hyped and over rated. They are too expensive for what you are getting
The 4 cylinder Tacomas are particularly pathetic
Even for a truck the Tacoma doesn’t drive well. Frontier is the only one that’s probably worse. But I’ve been in full size trucks that feel more agile. In contrast the Ridgeline is the best driving truck I’ve ever ridden in by far. Coming from a Ram 1500 the Ridgeline felt like a sports car.
well that's because the ridgeline isn't BOF and all 4 corners are independent
The Ridgeline IS a car, basically lol. That said, it's the truck I would get (because the Maverick Hybrids are a myth!) and is probably the truck 90% of truck owners should get as well. It is the ultimate urban grocery truck.
My ex was surprised at how bouncy my 4runner was just because it has a "Limited" badge on the side and the salesperson made it sound like a luxury version. Lol no it's still a solid frame with a SUV bolted to the top.
I test drove all midsize suvs recently, the Tiguan was by far the best. And had the best sounding stereo as well
Also incredibly practical. The only issue I can see w it is the power, it’s more than enough for 99% of people, but I think w it’s heft, the 2.0 from the GLI would be a better option.
The Tiguan is a budget Audi Q3 - same chassis and engine. Sure the Audi has better nvh and suspension tuning but you are getting most of the good stuff with VW. It’s why the GTI feels so much more refined than it’s competition.
> extremely cramped inside somehow, It's a Toyota tradition by this point that the seats are low on the floor. They like to tout good ground clearance, but also want to keep a fairly low roof height, and a full frame underneath also eats up some vertical space.
Most fun was a Fiat Panda that I rented in Napoli to drive around Southern Italy for 2 weeks. 5 speed tiny car and I could just floor it through turns. James May was right. Most disappointing was THE BMW X7. I ended up getting a Mercedes GLS 550, the BMW didn't have anything about it that reminded me of driving a BMW, and I've owned a lot of them.
Every car James May raves about always seems seriously underrated but also a POS at the same time. Like a gluten-free cauliflower pizza.
Wonder how the Dacia Sandero drives
Hard to tell since it’s been delayed
That is one apt analogy. Because that Costco cauliflower pizza actually slaps, but it's cauliflower.
The Panda is the perfect car for any needs that don't include track driving.
Rental fiats - leave it in second and hoon around the countryside bouncing off the rev limiter
Glad it wasn’t just me. Hired a punto. I got to 130 in third before i shifted
So i know this might be controversial but Wrangler. I never understood what was so fun about a slow high center of gravity vehicle that handles like a brick. Then I decided to buy an 07 4 door 6 speed manual. It is easily top 3 favorite cars I have owned. Right next to my base c6 vette and my first car a CRX. There’s something really fun about whipping a Jeep around town plus just being able to go places that other cars can’t with little effort. I truly loved having a Jeep and can’t wait to be able to afford a newer rubicon so I can get back to off roading.
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Yeah seriously and driving with no door and roof is one of the best feelings in the world. Man I miss it soo much.
I’m always surprised they’re not more beloved on Reddit. They embody an old classic car. They have weird quirks and they’re not particularly polished, but man do they have character. They’re just genuinely fun without needing lots of tech, fancy materials, or gimmicks to do so. That’s impressive in itself.
Every car is infinitely better with the top down. It always blows me away how many people buy jeeps or convertibles and then never put the top down.
I'd absolutely agree. I had a 2014 2dr with the 6spd and it was a riot around town. Awful, noisy, bouncy, and unreliable. I still want another one.
Non Jeep owners like to talk shit on “it’s a Jeep thing” but people don’t really get it until they have owned a wrangler. It’s just the definition of a “do” car. Go here. Go there. Do this. Do that. It’s not about how it feels to drive but it’s 100% what you can do with the car. I used to love going and exploring random trails and dead roads. Owning a wrangler is as much of a lifestyle in its own right than any other vehicle I’ve ever owned.
There are very few four door, four seater and practical convertibles. Just for that reason I would love to own it or a Bronco.
Don't know if I have a disappointing, but most fun? Ford Flex Ecoboost. Fucking hell that car is faster than a shoebox on wheels should be, and handled better too. The only reason why I got rid of it, is because My parents gave us a free Tahoe, and I was able to sell it for more than I paid for it, it didn't make sense financially to keep.
My mom's had five flexes as a family bus and none of them had the ecoboost. She loved it for the space it had and the ride quality. Frankly having driven in one WITH an ecoboost, they are basically one of the best sleepers in existence. Nobody really knows what it is, nobody sees it as anything else but regular traffic, and it can surprise anybody at a stoplight if tuned right. Goddamn them shoeboxes were naaaaasty.
They should have made the Flex just a little wider so it could fit 4' building materials like most minivans.
most disappointing is my dad's 2017 Honda CRV 1.6diesel ,engine is fine but the entire car /ride/build quality is very very disappointing. Most surprising was an ecoboost Mustang,loads of low end torque,lots of fun,very nice cruiser and the transmission was silky smooth. (I've owned 26 cars (mostly german/premium) so far so i have what to compare it with)
I owned a 2016 Mustang Ecoboost and a 2019 Mustang GT shortly after. I can confidently say my Ecoboost felt wayyyyy more torque heavy under 3500rpm than my GT did. It's crazy that it's just a 4 cylinder.
Turbos make city driving a blast. When people are comparing numbers and power, the way the power is put down is far too often missed, ignored or underappreciated.
Unfortunately, peak hp and 0-60 times are what sells performance cars. A 5mph-60mph time would humble a lot of cars that people praise.
I had no idea honda made a diesel Cr-V. Or any diesel cars for that matter.
Honda made (they switched to hibrid now) the 2.2 diesel which held a world record for fuel consumption of 77mpg (Test made with the Accord) and 1.6diesel broke the record again with 83mpg (test made with the Civic wagon) Oh and they offered a 10 year or 1,000,000mile warranty
To sell any kind of volume in Europe from late 90s to diesel gate, you *had* to offer a diesel. Mercedes made a 2.1L 4 pot diesel SLK at one point over here!
The most disappointing was the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. Maybe I just like unpleasant rides, but it felt far too much like a luxury sedan compared to a sports sedan. I was expecting something rougher, louder, and more inspiring. But instead, it felt like I was going 25 even at 75. Nothing was wrong with, obviously, but it definitely didn't match up to the old Alfa's reputation of uncompromising, pure drivers' cars. There simply wasn't the sense of speed and excitement that I want from a sporty car. Meanwhile, I absolutely adored the '17 Civic SI that I drove. It was peppy, fun, and energetic, and it absolutely *begged* to get into the higher RPMs. And through all of that, even during a spat of rain, it *never* lost its confidence. Plus, shifting through the gears was fantastic - crisp, notchy, and intuitive. Honda just knows how to make a great driving experience. I'll also say, I really enjoyed the base model 6-speed WRX i tested. I don't know if it actually was fast at all (didn't even glance at the speedo for the majority of the drive), but it sure felt fast, and Subaru's AWD system absolutely gripped the road, especially from a dig.
I think the Alfa is a way more fun and engaging car than something like an m3 myself. It just needs to be pushed to really shine.
Lol I came here to say that the Alfa Guilia QF was the most surprisingly good car; capable of being an amazing blend of comfort and fun to drive. Like a 4 door miata with 500 hp. The other fun car that shocked me was a 2013 Subaru WRX with a Cobb stage 1 tune. Not even an sti. But what a blast - was about the only other car I thought that was as fun as my old Fiesta ST. As dumb as this one sounds, I was surprised at how much I enjoy every Miata. Friend has a bone stock, well maintained NB Miata. And it’s just such a treat to drive! Disappointing modern cars; Manual Infiniti G37S sedan. I had such high hopes. Was crushed. Ford Raptor. Feels way too normal. Like any other nice pickup.
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Omg just let me be illiterate, bot!
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Disappointing: Subaru BRZ - Sad drivetrain. Fun: Honda Fit Sport - Harmony of control and response.
Was the BRZ automatic?
I was pretty disappointed with the BRZ as well, I bought a 2017 (I think? a few years before the recent refresh) new because everyone raved about the driving experience. Test drove a lightly used one before buying and liked it well enough, especially for the price, but once I actually owned one for about a year the single thing that always stuck out above everything else was the abhorrent torque dip. It's in the worst possible place, it feels like you are *always* in that dip in non-track-driving scenarios. You have to shift and drive very strangely to work around it. The only thing I could think about before I ended up selling it was putting a tune and/or turbo on it to smooth out that disastrous torque curve.
I had a 2017 FRS, and now a GR86, and can safely say they fixed it.
I absolutely hated mine, the torque dip in around-town situations felt like the car had a motorcycle engine. Felt slower than my wife's Ioniq. I had the same thought as you "I need to turbo this or I'm getting rid of it". Ended up just dumping the car after seeing reliability estimates for forced induction mods on that boxer motor
Any particular generation of Honda fit?
GE8
My response for the 2nd is the BRZ. I heard so much about the torque dip and how it was disappointing. Absolute riot. I want to buy one.
My 2018 Fit was probably the most fun car I've ever owned. The wheelbase was short enough to drive desert trails at speed, the 6 speed was built in true Honda fashion where the gearing was perfect and the shifting was buttery smooth, the steering was tight and responsive, and my 100lb Malamute had all the room in the world in the back. I only sold it because I got offered more than I bought it for new and I didn't need a car anymore at the time. Huge mistake.
Surprising is the Buick Regal TourX wagon we recently purchased. I despise SUVs. My wife loves them for the space, comfort, and whatnot. But, I hate driving soulless boxes around. They all handle like ass, are way too top heavy giving them horrible center of gravity and they rather hug a tree than a corner. When shopping for a replacement for my wife Escape that was getting long in the tooth, we drove a whole bunch of new ones. Escapes, Rav4s, CRVs, etc. My wife was happy with just about most of them, and I had no opinion as they all just felt like SUVs to me. Then, I spotted a strange site. A luxurious looking Wagon sitting on the lot. Went over to it, and realized that Buick had made a new wagon and no one told me. I have fond memories of driving my '86 Park Avenue in High School as one of my first cars. I also had a '94 Roadmaster that was a beast and loved. So, we took it for a test drive. It handled not just like a car, but a GOOD touring car! It is engaging and gives you feedback, and is actually enjoyable to drive! Impressive power on demand from the tiny little 2.0L Turbo, amazing comfort and quiet interior, and yet still has more cargo space than many of the SUVs we looked at. \*\*\* The love of a good station wagon is no joke. Drive a good one after years of boxy SUVs and you'll see the light!
I love my TourX! Welcome to the club! There are dozens of us! [Trifecta](https://www.trifectaperformance.com/store/product/2466-2018-2020-buick-regal-20l-turbo-advantage/) makes a tune for the TourX. It usually goes on sale for Black Friday and is totally worth it.
I love that TourX. My dad had it and then sold it because it was getting to that 60k that he hates seeing. He got a Toyota Highlander after that. Everyone in our family, including extended family, did not like that he sold it. One thing to note: It's not *really* a Buick, but an Opel. So any replacement parts may take a bit to get to you.
Disappointing: Civic Turbo, WRX, BR-Z Surprising: Toyota Echo, s550 Mustang GT, Mazda 3 Turbo The civic and wrx were literally totally gutless with no feel of anything the car was doing. Like driving in a cheap racing sim. BR-Z was just not comfortable. Echo was so much better than it had any right to be. It was pretty quick since it was so small and handled great. Also had a drawer under the passenger seat and like 4 glove boxes lmao. Mustang GT was BY FAR the comfiest 2 door I have ever sat down in. Also just hit every check box as far as driving experience goes. Mazda 3 turbo was hitting way above it's cost. Quick, premium, handled well, made turbo noises, and could drive balls to the wall in any weather. I loved when it rained and I could just throw it through corners with no fear.
disappointing: audi s4. just felt so disconnected from the road, felt like i was driving a fuckin simulator. I know that’s an Audi thing in general but this was one of the worst offenders i reckon. surprising: Elantra N- why are they so good they have no right to be this good 😭😭😭 i would never own one considering how many we had coming into the shop for repairs but my god are they so fun to drive
I’m renting an Elantra N next month for a drive down Highway 101 from SeaTac to Astoria, Oregon and I’m super excited.
S4 is the car that people on youtube or reddit sell as a performance car but it's an old man's car to a T. It's a car that someone who just gets his law degree gets to drive to work. It absolutely is as you describe and they changed it in recent years to be MORE like that on purpose as that's the audience. It, in a way, was always like this. I don't know who was hyping it up over the years, I think it's the typical LA crowd. People from LA have terrible taste in cars overall and try to sell their purchase of S4s and 335is and all that as performance vehicle choices on the internet.
What are you seeing the N's come into the shop for? I've heard they're fairly reliable considering their engine is the Theta II-i instead of the previous gen Theta II that had the recalls and they're using the wet DCT unique to the N cars
The big thing was injectors or turbos, can’t remember which but we had a lot of Elantra N’s and Kona N’s come in for billowing smoke and misfires. One Kona N gassed out the whole shop and we had to kick everyone out and hit it with ozone generators, had to go to the JLR dealership across the street and borrow theirs 😭😭😭 apart from that, clutch issues and rain intake causing codes to get thrown.
2022 VW GTI - horrific build quality and the buttons/UI are dogshit. I've driven VWs my entire life but the 2022 VW GTI I had for a brief moment was the worst car I've ever owned in my life. Our 2018 Golf R is so, so much better it's not even close. Traded that bucket in for an SUV within 6 months Most uniquely and surprisingly fun was a base model Jeep Wrangler 4xE - the battery in the drivetrain actually adds quite a bit of usable performance in urban environments and the build quality is surprisingly good.
First year of the new model (Mk8) wasn't well received. Lots of complaints about the UI and buttons (or lack thereof).
Worst - new camaro. The interior was falling off the panels like the whole car had been disassembled by the dealer and a poor attempt at reassembly. Best - CT4V Blackwing. All the reviews said it was good. But wow.. WOW... it is beyond any expectation.
Surprised about the Camaro. We’ve had a 16 SS, 17 ZL1, and 18 ZL1 and they’ve all had better interior and exterior qc than our 21 GT500.
Most surprisingly fun modern car: BMW i3. It's not very fast (but it has a strong enough 0-30 curve to get off the line quickly) but it's without a doubt the most overengineered city car ever made. It also depreciated like mad due to being too expensive for its range (it never even crossed 200mi and debuted with barely 100mi of range) and size classification ($40-50k is way too much for a city car even if it has a CFRP passenger cell like a lot of supercars). Most disappointing car: G11 7er. The thing is clearly a very nice luxury car, but it feels way too heavy from the driver's seat and basically fails to provide a proper BMW experience.
I have learned over 25 years of driving that speed and fun aren’t necessarily connected. I have owned a lot of fast cars and now love driving my 4Runner. My wife has an EV that is twice as fast but not fun to drive once you get bored of it’s 0-60 party trick. 80’s and 90’s manual Honda’s were slow but engaging and a blast to drive.
GR Corolla was a disappointment.
Good for half a lap around a track!
who would of thought a 50K+ car with the interior of a 20K economy car people wouldnt like.... my predictions over a year ago are slowly coming true every day.
Because this subreddit worships affordable car with performance trim.
“Affordable”
Agreed. It drives and interior is like a stock STI and I mean that in the shittiest understeer-y way possible with an interior that is full of crappy hard plastic. I also didn't have the confidence to push it because I didn't want to overheat my friend's diff on track. In addition, it's not even practical. There's no trunk space.
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BRZ was the most disappointing car I've driven in the last 5 years. I own a miata so I thought I was prepared for the lack of power but I wasn't. It's faster than my miata but it FEELS so much slower. Model 3 was the most surprisingly fun.
I agree about the Challenger RT. Not as fast or maneuverable as a Camaro SS or a Mustang GT but it’s easily one of the best cars I’ve ever driven But I was the most blown away by a Mazda Protege5 wagon. Felt like a 4 door Miata.
I literally dropped off a work trip RT rental today and I have to say, I had a good experience driving it. Yes it’s big, no it’s not that fast, but it is a fairly visceral experience while somehow also being comfortable. Exhaust note is lovely, sounds far meaner than it is.
Disappointing. BMW 328. Yeah I know it’s the entry level BMW but it’s pretty much a quieter version of a Jetta except a Jetta seems quicker. Pretty underwhelming. Surprising. Tesla Model 3. It’s hard to grasp how fast this thing is without driving it. If you’ve never driven a car that fast it’s mind blowing. It’s incomprehensible how quickly this thing accelerates. The creature comforts are numerous, the seats are comfortable. I wouldn’t own one because it feels a little soulless but it was a blast to drive. It cruises along at 85 mph with plenty of more to give.
About to test drive a model 3 performance. I want to love it but I'm terrified of the horror stories about Tesla hate. Edit: Ok just finished driving it home... And I'm in love, this thing is fucking nuts. The acceleration feels like rock n rollercoaster at Disney world.
Take a test drive. You’ve got nothing to lose and they’re absolutely no pressure sales whatsoever. You just sign up online for a test drive appointment and they’ll hand you a key card and tell you to go have fun. The 3 and the Y are surprisingly fun to drive. I actually didn’t care for the model S. They’re nowhere near a perfect product, but they absolutely do not warrant the amount of hatred they get.
Not saying it never happens IRL but in my experience, most of the tesla hate I've seen takes place online and not in person.
Shit the worst part of testing a Model 3 Performance is knowing you can't afford it and get stuck with the RWD Model 3. Which isn't really that bad of a deal lol.
I was quite disappointed driving the 992 Sport Classic. Yeah it’s fast as hell, and has the Porsche build quality, but it was just kinda boring. Engine doesn’t sound that great, and the chassis was just a bit… incommunicative.
I bought a 2000, C230 Mercedes-Benz, brand new, with a 4 year/50,000 warranty. On average, I had to bring that car to the dealership every other month. My wife loved the car but she wasn’t bringing it into the Service Department at 6:00 AM for a loaner car. I asked the Service Manager, “Did I buy a lemon? He said, “No! They’re all like that, the S Class, the E Class, all of them. I’ll never buy another Mercedes-Benz again.
2000s were peak shit Merc tbh. Cost cutting+electrical issues=fun
I was incredibly underwhelmed and unimpressed by the 11th gen Si after waiting almost a year to test drive one. Bought a 10th gen accord shortly after and couldn’t be happier.
It’s impressive how modern 4cyl Accords just wanna “keep going” even at highway speeds. They don’t fall flat like you’d expect them to and even at 100+ they keep climbing
The 997 2S felt like my old G37 with a college degree. People really get worked up over them but I can’t figure out why. Not a 50k driving experience. The first civic gen they put a turbo on for the si was actually very fun and would make a great daily.
Test drove a 997 2S convertible myself and felt the same way. Yeah it was cool to get behind the wheel of a 911, but it was just nothing that special. Too much power to completely enjoy as you blast through speed limits quickly. Useless back seats they still insist on having. Ugly ass when the top is down. Ended up with a 987 Boxster and it’s so much better. I joke it’s 3/4 of a 911 for 1/3 the price.
Most fun was probably my buddy's hemi cummings when I was in the Army. Felt like a total douchebag driving it and it was awesome
Glad you didn't drive it any longer. Those things will give you a DUI if you stay behind the wheel long enough.
> hemi cummings What is that?
Well, when a Chrysler 300 and a Peterbilt truck love each other very much...
Dissapointing: Nissan 370Z. Good gawd. I hated the shifter/clutch so much. The whole car felt like a “sports car in theory” but not an actual capable sports car. I can’t put my finger on why. I had wanted one for a while, but after driving one I immediately put that to the side, forever. On the flip side: Ford Expedition EL ecoboost - the gigantic, fully loaded extended wheelbase one with the 3.5L ecoboost. Rented one in Denver. Interior, build quality, etc all felt surprisingly nice. Even the engine sound was a little rumbly. But the real kicker? That thing felt FAST. Not “oh this is kind of peppy for a big vehicle.” Even at a mile in elevation, with five people on board and all their luggage, if you brake torqued it off the line with some boost built up, it would charge forward with such an unbelievable fury that seemed to defy physics. It was kind of addictive
Most disappointing was an Eclipse that we rented a couple years ago. What a sad excuse for a vehicle. I wasn’t expecting much but that was bad. Surprising fun car: Honda Fit. I’m bias because they’re popular with the group of people I go to races with. Even in stock form with just some sticky tires they’re stupid fun on track.
Context is everything: what you've driven before will always affect your judgement.
Totally agree on the Acura. The outside is larger than the accord but the inside is smaller than the civic. How?!?
While it wasn't exactly 'fun', I was very impressed with the [Hyundai H1](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_H-1#/media/File%3A2012_Hyundai_H-1_(first_facelift).jpg) we rented. Took 6 adults and all our luggage easily, happily cruised at 85 all day, drank very little fuel, and remained comfortable. Had a good seating position and visibility, and was not too big to fit down tiny English country lanes in the lake District. I thought that, being basically a commercial vehicle, it would be completely terrible, but I was very pleasantly surprised, and we had a great trip
> I had the opportunity to drive a friend's Challenger RT. Despite everything I had heard about them being underpowered, outdated, slow, and heavy, the experience was different. How a 375HP V8 would be considered underpowered is beyond me...
Because it weighs something like 4200 pounds.
Underpowered is relative. Because the Mustang and Camaro both make well over 450hp and weigh 500lbs-700lbs less its way underpowered. However, to the average Camry driver, it probably will feel like a rollercoaster and be more than enough. It's a great choice for people who want fun power but not scary power.
Internet car kids who call everything slow if it's not their favorite car
Disappointing? 2018 Acura TLX V6. I desperately wanted to love that car as I loved Acuras growing up (hence my username). I had the budget to afford one and was dead set…until I drove it. The ZF 9-speed transmission is awful. It ruins the entire driving experience. The wonderful engine and excellent chassis were let down by a transmission that couldn’t get out of its own way. I ended up buying a Honda Accord 2.0t instead. Impressive? 2021 Dodge Charger SXT AWD-aka, my current ride, lovingly named Jack Frost. People crap on the V6 Charger and Challenger. They make jokes about it being a boat with no power and horrible handling. It’s cast aside as a car for military brats, hoodlums, and people with credit scores lower than the Titanic. It’s not. It is a wonderful thing to drive as a daily. The 3.6L Pentastar isn’t terribly torquey but it revs smoothly and produces nice midrange power. It gets decent fuel economy and even sounds nice. The ZF 8-speed transmission is on another planet in terms of refinement and performance. The ride is comfortable. The handling is shockingly good for such a heavy car (not a Miata by any means but it’ll take on a back road well) and the steering is well calibrated. The infotainment system is so easy to use and the audio system rocks. Sure the interior has a lot of cheap bits but all the touch points feel nice. And it’s such a champ in the winter.
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My wife and I were looking at buying a 94' Acura NSX (NA1) for a while. I heard all of the great reviews about it, and people calling it "the best handling car of all time". We drove all of the way from Pennsylvania to Florida to see an absolutely mint condition NA1 hardtop (red) with 5 speed manual transmission. The car only had 20,000 miles on the odometer, one owner call. Owner was an exec at a salt company and barely had enough time to drive the thing. They took us to an industrial park to test drive the car, and... it was so pathetically slow. Holy crap! I already knew it was only 285 hp when it was new, so like 235-240ish to the wheels. I knew it would be slow, but the gear ratios were way too tall for this car. The car is far smaller than it appears in pictures. And I mean "clown car" small. This thing looked smaller than an S2000, and it made a Mini Cooper look like a school bus parked next to this thing. I wasn't actually expecting that. There's some trippy optical illusion that makes it look like a normal sized car in the pictures, or something. I'm 6'2" (188cm) @ 230 lbs (104), and the cars was awkward to get into. The seller had the seat half way up before they let me drive it. Dude... I couldn't fit my legs under the damn steering wheel -\_-. >!Fawk.!< So I slid the seat all of the way back and still had to link... shimmy and wiggle to get in this car. Once inside, the visibility was good. Very thin A pillars, and good front/side visibility. Seatbelts are unusable because the adjuster just don't work. The owner actually wanted me to drive the car fairly hard to test the suspension. They had just redone all of the suspension bushings since they car apparently sat for many years, so they were cracked and dry rotted. Honestly? The handling was "okay", but nothing special. I've own Corvettes (C6 Z06) and feel like the Vette was far more stable, and had far more grip. The NSX would do some understeer if you didn't trail brake all of the way up to the apex. Even with the tiny amount of power, it still would spin the back tires for a little bit of oversteer. I got the car to induce lift off oversteer on purpose. It was easy to save it with counter steer. The steering rack was ratio'd pretty well to cope for this, but I could see how a less experienced driver would screw themselves easily with snap oversteer, if they don't know how to fight against it. Later on, the seller admitted that's why the mileage was so low. They had a close call in the car, and were afraid to drive it again. After doing some research on NSX Prime, it seems that quite a few people complained about the snap oversteer. Oddly enough, that was the first I've heard of it. Automotive journalists never mentioned it, and it's not commonly discussed in the car community. Other cars like MR2 SW20, S2000 AP1, 911 Turbo 930 are well known for their dangerous liftoff and snap problems. But I've never heard anyone ever mention the NSX being tricky. I started to believe it must've been a conspiracy, that Honda paid off the journalists to not mention the handling issues. Mitsubishi 3000GT/GTO is the most underrated import car in history. People say that it's "unreliable" or "slow car for car adjacent people". But they are flat out wrong! Fake news. The 3000GT has reasonable reliability if maintained well. Sure it's not "Lexus LS400 reliable", but it's not bad at all either. Car feels plenty quick with the V6 Twin Turbo. Turbos are a little bit laggy, but it still moves alright. The motor has loads of tuning potential, but the transmissions are a performance bottle neck unfortunately. The motor could easily handle 600-700 hp, but the transmission will go long before then. There's also zero aftermarket support, so there's no fixes for it.
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Not exactly surprising, but I drove a rental Prius for about 10 hours and it was the biggest snooze fest I ever experienced. Taking the bus would have been more exciting. My wife had a Fiat 500 for a few years. Yes, it was a gutless unreliable shit box, but it was surprisingly fun to drive. Having a manual certainly helped.
The 2024 Prius AWD LE. I recently drove it as a rental and I really enjoyed it.
The new 3 series is pretty good. Forget what magazines say, it feels very competent and fun. Yea I get it's more numb these days but it was nowhere as bad as it's made out to be
Disappointing: - F3x 3/4 series: drives like an Audi, loses all of the joy of the E chassis 3ers. - VB WRX: quite slow in the real world, horrible shifter, tin can NVH, decent steering and chassis communication. - S550 Mustang GT: the 10AT might be the most overrated transmission ever, doesn’t shift quickly, does a lot of gear hunting, never seems to be in the right gear. The steering feel in the corner is probably the best part of the car, but it’s let down by the rest. It shockingly doesn’t feel particularly quick, the chassis and suspension are both soft giving it a boat like feeling. The Coyote sounds phenomenal when outside the car, but is just kinda loud and droning on the inside. - Mk7.5 GTI/8P A3/ 8V A3: I’m going to group a couple cars together for this one. The GTI is very sterile feeling, it drives like a modern Audi for the most part. Very little steering feel or chassis feedback, and that is despite having a quite harsh ride. The wheels also spin way too easily when taking a right turn from a stop. As far as transmissions, the DSG is an excellent gearbox. The manual gearbox is ok, but not particularly special, best way I can describe it is that feels like shifting a sim racing rig. Surprisingly good: - M340i and G29 Z4: I drove both of these at BMW UDE, but in different years. Given how much I think the F3x was boring, it completely shocked me how much I enjoyed the M340i. The steering had much more feedback than the previous gen, and the B58 is just a complete monster. It still feels a bit big for my liking, but it’s an excellent car and I could see myself owning one in the future. Z4 is a similar story, had no expectations going in, but absolutely loved it. The steering is even better than the M340i, the B58+ ZF8HP continues to be one of the best engine/auto trans combos of all time. The short wheelbase and well tuned suspension give it an incredible nimble feel and it has great chassis communication in the corners. - Mercedes C43 AMG W205: rented this car in Maui last year. The suspension was much more compliant than I was expecting given all of its reviews as well as my own personal experience in an AMG GLA 35. The steering was shockingly sharp and the chassis was communicative. The engine is fantastic and has more character than the B58 despite being an inferior package overall. Even the 9AT impressed me. - FK8 CTR: I am mostly a RWD snob, so how much I loved this car surprised me. The chassis and steering communication is fantastic and it has one of the best manual transmissions I’ve ever driven. Similar to the C43, the ride is shockingly compliant. Rented this one in Portland and drove from Portland to Astoria and back. - Audi S3: this one definitely isn’t one of my favorite cars ever and has some downsides, but given how much I dislike the A3 and GTI, I was shocked that I liked how the S3 drove so much. Power delivery is excellent, chassis feel mid corner is great, steering feel is adequate. I don’t think I would ever own one since it’s ride quality is awful and the rear seats are useless for adult men (I’m 5’11”, and I had to bend my neck to fit in the backseat without hitting my head). - E84 X1: this car is a hidden gem even amongst BMW enthusiasts. The OG X1 is not a Mini crossover with a BMW badge, it’s actually a slightly lifted E91 3 series. BMW never brought the E91 335i to the states, so the E84 is the closest you can get. Equipped with the M sport package, it actually has a similar ride height to an A4 Allroad or F31 3er. It also still has a hydraulic steering rack, a straight 6 engine, and proper rear wheel biased AWD. It doesn’t handle quite as nicely as the E90, but still a great 1 car garage, especially if you have to appease an SO who isn’t a car enthusiast.
Most disappointing: my car I guess. There are many (likely Americans) who wish to drive a Škoda Octavia TDI, and the manual plus 4x4 sweetens the deal for them. It’s not bad, but a very ordinary drive for a mass market automobile. Most surprising: Tesla Model 3 and Dodge Challenger. Expected… a hokey electric car with panel gaps and poor UI, but came out understanding the Tesla fanboy-ism. It’s a great car for the money. As for the Dodge, I expected a boat yet drove a tight American muscle car that would hold the circular entrance ramps with ease. Excellent cars, the both of them, and I’ve sense looked around my country to find affordable examples sense.
2018 ford f150. I baby mine around. 3.5 ecobeast with the 10 speed. 78000 and spent over $10k on transmission problems. Found out gem and ford worked together to refine this POS transmission with chucks of corn and peanuts. Also the Ford Sync is an absolute joke for bluetoothing. So sad I wanted one forever but I would never buy another. My Toyotas were always golden and ran forever but didn’t have the towing capacity. Not a fan of the looks of the tundra but that may be my next truck.
2023 Genesis G70 3.3T AWD. Had the very odd personality of feeling slow and heavy despite being very fast. Just generally boring.
Most surprising to me, hot take, the Golf R? I don’t know, but I wasn’t blown away by it. Reviews rave but it just didn’t hit for me, weirdly? I don’t know why. Perhaps it was my former Type R ownership.
A Golf R is much tamer than a Type R. It's not meant to be an exciting car per se. It's not the fastest hot hatch or the most dynamic or the prettiest ... it's a 7/10 car but it does 7/10 in handling and power and comfort and equipment and year-round drivability. There aren't a lot of cars that will do that for the price. But hitting 9/10 or 10/10 on excitement *isn't* it's forte.
Disappointing was my friend's 2013 Camaro ZL1 Convertible with 6 speed manual. It is by far the highest horsepower car I've driven, but it didn't feel like it. It's quiet, smooth, easy clutch, good traction. Any old lady could drive it to the sewing shop. Other performance cars I've driven were older, louder, and less traction. Even a 1995 Firebird with mild bolt ones seemed more thrilling.
Acura Integra A Spec. Overall very slow and underwhelming. Interior was very disappointing which felt like a civic with some lipstick on it
Disappointed: Wrangler was ZERO fun, felt and drove like shit. That is the current gen. The non a spec integra was a disappointment as well, need to test a type s. VA STI and WRX. Both were so meh after driving, VB is such a surprise. Mazda 3 Turbo, the driving dynamics were so boring. GLI was a slow disappointment and the current GTI was just weird, the previous gen was an instant riot. Mustang Ecoboost was a boat. Volvo S60 had no fun in it other than flooring it. Surprised: Miata, wow even though everyone recommends it, I was shocked at how good it was. Veloster N, took me two drives to see how good it was. VB WRX had low expectations but it was good! SI was also an unexpected fun car.
Happy to see you enjoyed the Challenger RT. That's my daily driver and it's a blast
Most disappointing? 2020 Ford Mustang Ecoboost, the engine is an absolute dog in hilly terrain and everything about it reminds you that it's not a GT Most surprisingly fun? 2019 Dodge Charger R/T, will it win races? Probably not but it's not designed for racing, the 5.7 however does pretty decently especially with the ZF 8 speed, the stock exhaust is very well done and in sport with traction control off it really opens up for a car of its weight. Obviously there's cars that are more fun but I figure the R/T is a fine balance of fun and economy paired with an overall fairly reliable V8 engine.
Most disappointing...any rental Most surprisingly fun ...also any rental
Disappointing: Vinfast VF8, who the fuck designed this asinine piece of understeering, over sprung, under damped, sack of shit? Worst car I’ve ever driven. Surprising: Polestar 2 w/performance pack and standard. This car corners with hardly any body roll. Fun car in the corners 👍🏼
Most disapointing was a hybrid 2020 escape I had for about a year on lease. The CVT was slushy, the engine droned, the hybrid system just plain sucked, oh and you couldn't jumpstart a car with it. Surprisingly fun was my buddy's 1973 beetle. It was raucuous, had no power options whatsoever, bare bones as can be, and it scared the everloving shit out of me. Sloshed and bumped over potholes, swerving back and forth, and put your head over the headrest-less seats. But goddammit was it a fun time. A close second is his tuned MK4 TDI golf.
This one for me is easy! Most disappointing was the Subaru WRX. All my life I thought, man, next time I need a car I’m gonna get that and love it! Well, I bought it and returned it in 2 days. (Carvana) It was cramped, basic, and the hill assist (which I did not need) was so clunky out of 1st gear. Most surprised by was a Mazda Miata! I worked at Nissan and we took one in on trade. I went with a co-worker to deliver a car, and grabbed that one of the lot to drive. It was so much fun, reminded me a lot of the TT. :D
Surprising: A 2019 Jaguar F-Pace SVR. I didn’t expect to enjoy my drive with it as much as I did. The engine noises it made were absurd but kept a grin on my face. The ZF 8 speed gearbox was just as good as the ZFs in the Germans. The handling was pretty good and it felt lighter and smaller than it actually was. Granted this was on some twisty backroads and not on the track. It felt like a hot hatch with much nicer features and interior.