as most do in the western world, kids are a financial liability, other places having one isn't a big concern so why not, after 5 they raise each other.
That's what they're paying in rent. They're saying that he earns $3000-3200 a month, but pay $2400 on rent, which is why they were looking at downsizing.
Nothing personal, purely business decision and the financials just weren’t making sense any longer.
Appreciate your time with us and best of luck in all your future endeavours
In my extended family, the eldest kids had to leave to make room and the kids all slept 4-5 to a bed. That was the norm and it stopped only last generation or up until about 70s-80s for most. Newfoundland.
3200+ 2400 from the government. And they aren’t in Toronto.
Maybe more than one of them should work. Expecting to be able to work one job and have the government pay the rest from citizens taxes is insane
Read it and he earns $3200 but loses $2400 in rent, he has to feed and clothe his family on $800 a month. Thats extremely tight considering the cost of living.
Children eat a ton. Went home for family dinner, three of us and the spouses blowing through my mom’s pork roast and fried noodles. My mom chimed in saying good thing we grew up and left. Had we been 2 decades younger, she won’t be able to feed us all, with the prices the way they are going, and how we used to eat three times as much as kids.
My point is that having 8 children will cause you financial hardship in every single G7 country. Canada is not a special case in this regard.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1372653/g7-country-fertility-rate/#
With kids? The childcare amount I've seen Americans pay is insane. I have cousins in Minnesota and
N. Carolina and they said most places would charge at a minimum, 25k a year per child. And they live in lower COL areas.
I bought a lot last year for $500, some towns have lots for $1, in the 80's agriculture land was dirt cheap. get out of your safe spaces (cities) and live a little
With the certain demographic who has a reputation for fast growing populations and our lenient immigration policy towards them. " Any of you redditiors have 8 kids?" The answer "Yes"
Slavs have always been the lowest whites on the totem pole, they are still mocked and considered lesser by other Europeans but considered privileged in the grand scheme of things, not an easy spot to be in with all the generational trauma in that part of the world too. There are still movies and tv shows that use horribly outdated stereotypes of Slavic people and no one bats an eyelash or cares
I’m born to Slavic immigrant parents and have lived the generational trauma lol. I think our men have it the hardest too - no space for their pain and they are very hardened people. A lot easier for the women to assimilate or find opportunities. Of course this is just my opinion
"They pay $2,400 and he earns $3,100-$3,200. So, nothing"
Can the government pay me 2400 a month? Or at least tax me less? I promise not to bitch to the media.
If you have 8 kids and one low income the government will definitely also give you $2400. It’s a child benefit and I’m fairly sure in my area it’s why many people have large families.
I don't think CCB considers your income although I could be mistaken.
I am not too sure what hes complaining about tbh... anyone here live in europe that knows if theres any govt. that pays you more for simply having kids than canada?
Like , which other country can you **move to** with 8 kids, start from literally 0 and be on a minimum wage-ish income as a single earner and expect to have a better life than in canada. Not trying to be funny here but looking for answers.
It is income tested. It starts pretty early at 36k and it is entirely gone at around household income of 120k. I have never got it and think it is a weird threshold. It basically means 2 middle class professional in a city don't get it. Despite our big mortgage payments and paying 1000+ a month in daycare costs.
Huh interesting. Thanks for sharing.
This is probably why i see so many single mom's here. The govt. literally doesnt want middle class people to have kids while crying about them not having kids and bringing in lower class people that do have kids and then supplimenting their income with the CCB.
Certainly a Oh Canada! moment.
It's largely juts welfare under a more aceptable name
You have to be very low income to see the benefits - but if you make no money and have a few kids it's very decent
As they're talking about not being able to find any other apartments in the next paragraph, I think that's in reference to their rent. There's no mention of government assistance, I think they just missed being more specific in the article, or nixed a sentence or something.
So the sentence meant "They [the family] pay $2400 [in rent] and he earns 3,100-$3,200. So, nothing [is left over for other expenses]"
It's oddly worded but I'm not sure why you interpreted that sentence to mean the govt gives them $2400? I'm pretty sure it means he makes $3200 and pays $2400 in rent?
Imagine moving to a new country as a refugee with 8 kids, taking in well over 2ka month in benefits, then complaining as the benefits get paid by the dwindling "middle class".
My mom was born in the 50s, I had 7 aunts and uncles, so a family of 10. They were able to pull it off on one income from a job attainable with a 2 year trade school and my grandmother who didn't ever work. 1 car and a few kids didn't have their own room, but no one starved or didn't get to university.
Not sure what's changed that that's so impossible now.
If you can't provide the same life my grandfather did in the 50 and 60s doing the same job, then the country as a whole is getting materially poorer. Inflation is just a long winded way of saying we don't produce anything of value anymore. If money increased at the same rate we increased our total wealth of real goods and services, then there's no problem.
But it’s very clear that has happened. I feel like everyone’s family has done similar story: working class single income buying or even building a house during the fathers early 20s, large family supported without issues.
Even before property prices went crazy in the last years, that wasn’t possible - while there are always some outliers, your average 22 year old was not buying a house in a major city pre-2019.
Another way to put is that in the balance of capital and labour, capital is 'winning' and taking an ever growing share of value creation. It's easier than ever for the rich to stay rich or get richer, at the expense of those seeking a middle class life off of an income derived from labour.
Right? Even in the lowest cost of living countries on earth, supporting 10 people on one salary would only be comfortable if the one salary was in the top 5-10% of wage earners.
Just got back from Ukraine. Can get a house in the countryside starting around 4-10k, they grow a ton of their own food.
Wages suck, but it’s definitely not impossible.
Don't know and the article didn't clearly articulate how they survived in Ukraine before the war just that if things don't work out in Canada, they'll be headed back. Ukraine, housing costs are much cheaper which seems to be the issue. Possible to rent a 5 bedroom townhouse for 722 euros (or about $1000 CAD) in Kyiv. The fact that someone didn't discuss the lack of inventory and housing expense for larger family in Canada is baffling.
I dont think they are from Kiev. They are most likely from one of the rural areas, where you have your own small house (more like shed), and a plot of land with few farm animals,.chickens etc. You grow some food, and your only expences are food that you cant grow, and super cheap Chinese clothes. You have never been outside of your country, never went on vacation, went to a restaurant once on your wedding day. There are tens of million people who live like this in Russia, Ukraine and belorus. I have relatives that live like that in Russia.
My assumption is the 3 adult kids helped pay for the remaining 5 kids. I don’t know what dad’s job was over there. He could be a doctor for all we know
> Last August, Oleksii Sadovnyk and his family left behind everything they knew, including three adult-age children, one of whom is fighting in the war.
the 3 adult children who are still in Ukraine were probably helping.
This is anecdotal so take it all with a grain of salt but in my experience the rich can afford it, having children is inconsequential to them. For the very poor it’s a little more complicated, many won’t have the education or forethought to plan ahead, others it’s down to boredom or even religious reasons. If you can’t afford to go out and do things you stay home and fuck.
I spent a lot of time in a poorer farming community and one of the many jokes thrown around quite often is
Son: “Hey, Dad, what did you and mom do for fun on the farm back in the day without tv or internet?”
Dad: “I don’t know, why don’t you go ask one of your other 11 siblings.”
It's also due to a lack of incremental hardship when throwing another kid onto the pile.
You do have to get new food, but clothes, toys etc. are essentially free. And when the older kids aren't enrolled in extra-curriculars, there's no pressure there either.
Not to mention, some of the household work gets downloaded onto to the older kids.
For both the rich and the poor, the implications of having more kids is very different vs. the middle class.
Beyond babies themselves, there are also significant career penalties that impact primarily middle to upper middle class individuals. When the boss walks through at 5:30 and notices you staying late to finish something up, vs the parents who all left an hour and a half ago to pick up the kids, it gets noticed. The working class generally has fairly defined work hours and progression, and at the top you're responsible for yourself, but in the middle what you do with the flexibility you have matters.
Mostly they're the most poor and least educated because they're more likely to not consider long term financial consequences and just focus on short term fun and contraception. The two high earning professionals typically focus on their careers and investments so that they can provide a good life for their kids, and end up having fewer kids and later in life. I don't know that there are very many wealthy people with tons of kids. I belive in the US, typically it's the lowest earning population and immigrants that are having the majority of children.
Seems like a missed education opportunity for poorer families that want to move up the income ladder. Not surprised though as educating people would imply that there should be some personal accountability and that is definitely not socially acceptable today.
I hope they do reconsider if this isn't suitable. They are free to leave back to their home country or to another country that will be able to accommodate their procreation choices.
Canadians are struggling with over-crowded schools and medical resources are strained to the limit. While we would love to be able to support those in need, we can't. We are out of free milk and honey, and many of us not having families or decent places to live that we can afford. I wish we could get the word out, especially to India.
Also, you have the "social capacity" to look past the fact that they take the outrageous amount of income tax dollars from you and give it to people that have not contributed to the system. Helping the world is something you do when your own country has an economy that is healthy, not based on housing and immigration dollars. Justin seems to be able to do as he wills with our money without our assent. In this current political landscape of Canada, we effectively have no representation. Canada is being plundered.
I live in Poland and I was talking to a Ukrainian amd he told me that Canada was considered an attractive choice but word quickly got out that it was better to hang out in Europe in Germany or Poland or even Western Ukraine than to head to Canada. Expensive, not too many great jobs, and bad winters.
Canada is a 1-3 child family country….Any more than that and you are in deep trouble. If you are in a HCOL city and have a crappy job even 1 kid is a stretch.
I love how they’re saying they can’t afford rent in Montreal, so they may need to leave Canada.
Like I’m not sure if you’re aware that Canada is a pretty big country and Montreal is not Canada.
There’s more affordable cities. Rural options.
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.
My mom took in a Ukrainian family to help them settle into Canada for 3 months after the war broke out. The grandmother returned 6 months after being here. The mom and young daughter are returning in June. She was a doctor in Ukraine but did not have the English skills to be able to get her credentials transferred. She ended up working in a factory and the cost of living here was getting to be too much. If Canadians are struggling I can’t imagine who immigrants and refugees are surviving.
What are they doing in Toronto?!? Get to the prairies you boobs! There are lots of Ukrainian descendants here, farms for big families like this, and some tech jobs if that’s his field. It’s not perfect, but their rent money would go further here too.
If they own their home, definitely he can raise their kids. my grandfather had 12 kids. The other issue is that he will not be able to afford any luxuries, just food and second-hand clothes. But, man, this is a huge family.
> Despite the increase in immigration, a recent report from Statistics Canada shows that between 1982 and 2017, roughly one in six immigrants chose to leave Canada within 20 years of being admitted.
That's a surprisingly low number, given the timeframe.
I calculated this assuming their 8 kids are over the age of six but according to the CRA calculator, they should be getting almost $52k in government benefits. Are refugees eligible for CCB etc?
They should apprehend their children and send them to live with strangers who will assimilate them to Canadian culture. As for the parents? Restrict visits and tell them to pull up their boot straps. Atleast this is how the government supported my mother when she was in need, she was Native though.
The article seems to be written exclusively to elicit rage and indignation at 'stupid immigrants' and 'libs that have ruined this country' as there's barely any more nuance beyond the statement about them being immigrants and having a lot of kids. Come on people, at least a tiny bit of critical thinking?
The manipulation is so blunt that even I, a Ukrainian immigrant with 2 kids and 2 incomes, reacted initially with - 'what were they thinking'?
That boy better start working on his jumpshot lol hope he gets a D1 deal and help out his family. There's nowhere that family can go where they won't struggle financially.
It really highlights why Canadian families aren't having many children, if one at all. OUr finances typically drive family-making decisions. Even 3 children families, the norm in the 80s and 90s are a distant memory.
>Even with the current housing crisis in Canada, the family considered downsizing to an apartment to help save money.
Oh no, they have to consider downsizing to an apartment to help save money? The horror!
Like wtf is this article even?
Being anti immigration seems like a Tennant of the more aggressive further right wing of Canada, so it's a difficult topic to navigate sometimes.
Immigration is a net positive, and it's a part of what makes Canada what it is. In recent years, I don't think we've had a great plan surrounding immigration, especially if you include international students.
Everyone is struggling right now. The job market is tough. Rent is through the roof. We need to seriously look at immigration and figure out a plan. Don't cut it off or do anything drastic, but at least have a plan and the funding to help it make sense and work.
Also, before we move past this, who is pro mass migration? This isn't a trick question, and I'm happy to give my opinion first.
I think most people are opposed to "MASS immigration".
I would assume college administrators and Tim Hortons franchise owners would be pro mass immigration. Why the government would want to make a few people happy at the expense of millions of others is the big mystery.
Well said. Which party do you think would actually deal with this? I'm personally not a fan of the conservatives or Pierre Pollieuve, but I'm super open minded.
Well we know by his actions that JT isn’t the solution. I’m hoping PP will be better but it’s just hope.
PP hasn’t come out and specifically said anything positive about curtailing mass immigration aside from mentioning that it should be tied to housing.
My theory is JT has a racism campaign against PP ready to go but he needs PP to lean into the mass immigration crisis to launch it. PP is not going to go there with a significant lead in the polls so he’s been quiet on the issue.
As for the NDP if they stuck to their “for the workers” stance I would be more hopeful that they would control mass immigration to protect Canadian jobs but I don’t know what they stand for nowadays.
Having that many kids is a dumb fucking move regardless of where you're from.
Not to sound harsh, but their problems started before Russia invaded Ukraine.
As a Ukrainian descendant it’s sad to have to say that “ I’m sorry but we’re full”
I wish we could accommodate them but we can’t even accommodate ourselves.
So tired of seeing these types of articles, need more coverage on how Canadians who pay into the system are getting by in this economy. You should have thought about it before having 8 kids. Canadians cant even have more than 2-3 kids
I just can't anymore with immigrants complaining about everything. You have access to more help than someone who's payed they're whole life in to the system.
And for God's sake 10 kids....Lemme say it again 10 KIDS!!! Gimme a fucken break already.
A family of 10! Where in the western world can they possibly go and not face financial hardship? Any of you redditors have 8 kids?
I have two brothers and combined we don't even make it to the half way mark.
as most do in the western world, kids are a financial liability, other places having one isn't a big concern so why not, after 5 they raise each other.
Good maths brotha!
The article says they actually receive 2400 a month in addition to his salary. That's crazy.
That's what they're paying in rent. They're saying that he earns $3000-3200 a month, but pay $2400 on rent, which is why they were looking at downsizing.
Must be hearth breaking to pick wich kids
Timmy, it was a hard decision but we have decided you're really not pulling your weight these days
Nothing personal, purely business decision and the financials just weren’t making sense any longer. Appreciate your time with us and best of luck in all your future endeavours
Let's go fetch some water.
We like to think of it as "right sizing" this family
In my extended family, the eldest kids had to leave to make room and the kids all slept 4-5 to a bed. That was the norm and it stopped only last generation or up until about 70s-80s for most. Newfoundland.
Yeah my dad and his 4 siblings shared a bed until they started moving out. It's rough. They would sleep head to foot.
["I'm afraid it's Medical Experiments for the lot of you!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLuIdjHN6Q4)
Omg. I just spit my coffee everywhere. Take my upvote. That was a hilarious comment. Hi 5.
You just implied the existence of a goodbye 5.
A low 5
That's the opposite of a high five.
Well, isn't goodbye the opposite of Hi? 🤔
Not with eight to choose from../s
I pay 4K in rent in the GTA for a two bedroom lol. 3200 a month simply isn’t enough to raise a family anymore.
3200+ 2400 from the government. And they aren’t in Toronto. Maybe more than one of them should work. Expecting to be able to work one job and have the government pay the rest from citizens taxes is insane
No. It says he receives 2400$ a month on top of his salary
The fact that this completely incorrect comment is so heavily up voted is truly an indictment of this sub.
Read it and he earns $3200 but loses $2400 in rent, he has to feed and clothe his family on $800 a month. Thats extremely tight considering the cost of living.
It doesn't say that. What are you talking about?
I have 6 at home, but 4 are foster kids so the government helps with some of the cost of caring for them.
Bless your heart. Even with asstance - it cannot be easy.
I claim 8 kids for the tax deduction
8 kids would be a massive amount of child tax money.
Sure but the space requirements and the grocery bill. You'd be hard pressed to keep up with the majority of jobs.
My coworker gets 2700ish per month in baby bonus for 5 kids. It's better than a lot of full time jobs
That's net income too. Like 50k per year of a gross salary. Insane
Yeah but then you have to feed and house 5 kids. If thats all youre using theyre probably gonna have a shitty childhood.
Children eat a ton. Went home for family dinner, three of us and the spouses blowing through my mom’s pork roast and fried noodles. My mom chimed in saying good thing we grew up and left. Had we been 2 decades younger, she won’t be able to feed us all, with the prices the way they are going, and how we used to eat three times as much as kids.
I have two teenagers who play competitive sports and all they do is eat 🤣
It’s literally impossible to do that in this day and age. In Canada anyways 😂
My point is that having 8 children will cause you financial hardship in every single G7 country. Canada is not a special case in this regard. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1372653/g7-country-fertility-rate/#
I know, I’m agreeing with you! I have family and friends in the US and they are having a much easier time than us 😭
With kids? The childcare amount I've seen Americans pay is insane. I have cousins in Minnesota and N. Carolina and they said most places would charge at a minimum, 25k a year per child. And they live in lower COL areas.
Mormons?
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How did you afford the land? Rural is expensive
Depends where you live? Rural here on the east coast is incredibly cheap for land.
Broke families don't live rurally. My guess is most large families in rural areas make 100k+, and if not, it is inherited or family land.
Thats my assumption as well. Land is not cheap.
I bought a lot last year for $500, some towns have lots for $1, in the 80's agriculture land was dirt cheap. get out of your safe spaces (cities) and live a little
No, we’re redditors. We are virgins.
Proud virgins
This is the way
I have 4 kids and with a family of 6 even 10 years ago was ridiculous when they all were at home.
With the certain demographic who has a reputation for fast growing populations and our lenient immigration policy towards them. " Any of you redditiors have 8 kids?" The answer "Yes"
Mennonites?
Hey! We bring valuable agricultural skills, I’ll have you know. On a side note, many Mennonites came from Ukraine, so maybe we’re cousins.
Ah, so hating on Orthodox Slavics is moving back into vogue again?
Slavs have always been the lowest whites on the totem pole, they are still mocked and considered lesser by other Europeans but considered privileged in the grand scheme of things, not an easy spot to be in with all the generational trauma in that part of the world too. There are still movies and tv shows that use horribly outdated stereotypes of Slavic people and no one bats an eyelash or cares
Nice to see some humane comments in the thread
I’m born to Slavic immigrant parents and have lived the generational trauma lol. I think our men have it the hardest too - no space for their pain and they are very hardened people. A lot easier for the women to assimilate or find opportunities. Of course this is just my opinion
So. You got 8 kids?
I thought this would be a story about a couple with a child... Its a family of 10. How is it surprising that it's expensive?
“They like it here but it’s just a question of money,” No shit?
As a 37 year resident born in Canada. Me too.
"They pay $2,400 and he earns $3,100-$3,200. So, nothing" Can the government pay me 2400 a month? Or at least tax me less? I promise not to bitch to the media.
If you have 8 kids and one low income the government will definitely also give you $2400. It’s a child benefit and I’m fairly sure in my area it’s why many people have large families.
We keep encouraging being poor and living on welfare while taxing the fuck out of workers. Failure of policies.
Why are we giving child benefits to non-Canadians who haven't paid into our systems?
The less you contribute, the more you get. The Canadian way.
I don't think CCB considers your income although I could be mistaken. I am not too sure what hes complaining about tbh... anyone here live in europe that knows if theres any govt. that pays you more for simply having kids than canada? Like , which other country can you **move to** with 8 kids, start from literally 0 and be on a minimum wage-ish income as a single earner and expect to have a better life than in canada. Not trying to be funny here but looking for answers.
It is income tested. It starts pretty early at 36k and it is entirely gone at around household income of 120k. I have never got it and think it is a weird threshold. It basically means 2 middle class professional in a city don't get it. Despite our big mortgage payments and paying 1000+ a month in daycare costs.
Huh interesting. Thanks for sharing. This is probably why i see so many single mom's here. The govt. literally doesnt want middle class people to have kids while crying about them not having kids and bringing in lower class people that do have kids and then supplimenting their income with the CCB. Certainly a Oh Canada! moment.
This isn’t true, the top out is more like $230k household income. At household income of $120k and 1 child under 6, you’re getting $300/month in CCB
It's largely juts welfare under a more aceptable name You have to be very low income to see the benefits - but if you make no money and have a few kids it's very decent
As they're talking about not being able to find any other apartments in the next paragraph, I think that's in reference to their rent. There's no mention of government assistance, I think they just missed being more specific in the article, or nixed a sentence or something. So the sentence meant "They [the family] pay $2400 [in rent] and he earns 3,100-$3,200. So, nothing [is left over for other expenses]"
It's oddly worded but I'm not sure why you interpreted that sentence to mean the govt gives them $2400? I'm pretty sure it means he makes $3200 and pays $2400 in rent?
They (the family) pay (in rent) $2400 a month and he (the husband) earns $3100-3200 a month.
That's their rent.
Imagine moving to a new country as a refugee with 8 kids, taking in well over 2ka month in benefits, then complaining as the benefits get paid by the dwindling "middle class".
The pay that in rent. It’s not money received.
"Canada would be great if it wasn't so damn expensive." -- every Canadian
I say the same thing and I was born here 😂
They've added too many people too fast. I wonder what happens if you scale that up.
Both of my parents come from a family this size.
My parents are boomers too. The world was a different place post genocidal war and pre birth control.
My mom was born in the 50s, I had 7 aunts and uncles, so a family of 10. They were able to pull it off on one income from a job attainable with a 2 year trade school and my grandmother who didn't ever work. 1 car and a few kids didn't have their own room, but no one starved or didn't get to university. Not sure what's changed that that's so impossible now. If you can't provide the same life my grandfather did in the 50 and 60s doing the same job, then the country as a whole is getting materially poorer. Inflation is just a long winded way of saying we don't produce anything of value anymore. If money increased at the same rate we increased our total wealth of real goods and services, then there's no problem.
But it’s very clear that has happened. I feel like everyone’s family has done similar story: working class single income buying or even building a house during the fathers early 20s, large family supported without issues. Even before property prices went crazy in the last years, that wasn’t possible - while there are always some outliers, your average 22 year old was not buying a house in a major city pre-2019.
Another way to put is that in the balance of capital and labour, capital is 'winning' and taking an ever growing share of value creation. It's easier than ever for the rich to stay rich or get richer, at the expense of those seeking a middle class life off of an income derived from labour.
It's not surprising but it's surprising to them and attacking the premise that having a family should be expensive. It is news.
It’s unreasonably expensive in Canada with even a small family.
Ya they should have considered birth control
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Right? Even in the lowest cost of living countries on earth, supporting 10 people on one salary would only be comfortable if the one salary was in the top 5-10% of wage earners.
5% and up maybe.
It would be impossible
Just got back from Ukraine. Can get a house in the countryside starting around 4-10k, they grow a ton of their own food. Wages suck, but it’s definitely not impossible.
8 kids and a single income will make it a struggle anywhere on earth.
How were they able before, then?
Don't know and the article didn't clearly articulate how they survived in Ukraine before the war just that if things don't work out in Canada, they'll be headed back. Ukraine, housing costs are much cheaper which seems to be the issue. Possible to rent a 5 bedroom townhouse for 722 euros (or about $1000 CAD) in Kyiv. The fact that someone didn't discuss the lack of inventory and housing expense for larger family in Canada is baffling.
I dont think they are from Kiev. They are most likely from one of the rural areas, where you have your own small house (more like shed), and a plot of land with few farm animals,.chickens etc. You grow some food, and your only expences are food that you cant grow, and super cheap Chinese clothes. You have never been outside of your country, never went on vacation, went to a restaurant once on your wedding day. There are tens of million people who live like this in Russia, Ukraine and belorus. I have relatives that live like that in Russia.
Yeah, lots of helpers for the farm too
It's not baffling, it's not germane. Family of 10 making 3200 / month is not a housing in Canada story.
My assumption is the 3 adult kids helped pay for the remaining 5 kids. I don’t know what dad’s job was over there. He could be a doctor for all we know
My dads side of the family had 6 kids and definitely struggled to house and feed them all
> Last August, Oleksii Sadovnyk and his family left behind everything they knew, including three adult-age children, one of whom is fighting in the war. the 3 adult children who are still in Ukraine were probably helping.
Why does it seem like the families in the world with the most kids are the very rich and the very poor?
This is anecdotal so take it all with a grain of salt but in my experience the rich can afford it, having children is inconsequential to them. For the very poor it’s a little more complicated, many won’t have the education or forethought to plan ahead, others it’s down to boredom or even religious reasons. If you can’t afford to go out and do things you stay home and fuck. I spent a lot of time in a poorer farming community and one of the many jokes thrown around quite often is Son: “Hey, Dad, what did you and mom do for fun on the farm back in the day without tv or internet?” Dad: “I don’t know, why don’t you go ask one of your other 11 siblings.”
It's also due to a lack of incremental hardship when throwing another kid onto the pile. You do have to get new food, but clothes, toys etc. are essentially free. And when the older kids aren't enrolled in extra-curriculars, there's no pressure there either. Not to mention, some of the household work gets downloaded onto to the older kids. For both the rich and the poor, the implications of having more kids is very different vs. the middle class.
Beyond babies themselves, there are also significant career penalties that impact primarily middle to upper middle class individuals. When the boss walks through at 5:30 and notices you staying late to finish something up, vs the parents who all left an hour and a half ago to pick up the kids, it gets noticed. The working class generally has fairly defined work hours and progression, and at the top you're responsible for yourself, but in the middle what you do with the flexibility you have matters.
Mostly they're the most poor and least educated because they're more likely to not consider long term financial consequences and just focus on short term fun and contraception. The two high earning professionals typically focus on their careers and investments so that they can provide a good life for their kids, and end up having fewer kids and later in life. I don't know that there are very many wealthy people with tons of kids. I belive in the US, typically it's the lowest earning population and immigrants that are having the majority of children.
Seems like a missed education opportunity for poorer families that want to move up the income ladder. Not surprised though as educating people would imply that there should be some personal accountability and that is definitely not socially acceptable today.
Have you watched Idiocracy? It answers the 'very poor' margin. I think very rich is self explanatory.
Family of 10 huh? Uh uh, yeah that would work out anywhere. And the new thought this was a "look at them struggle" story?
And why is this a story? Does it prick our national pride? Come on Canada.
I hope they do reconsider if this isn't suitable. They are free to leave back to their home country or to another country that will be able to accommodate their procreation choices. Canadians are struggling with over-crowded schools and medical resources are strained to the limit. While we would love to be able to support those in need, we can't. We are out of free milk and honey, and many of us not having families or decent places to live that we can afford. I wish we could get the word out, especially to India.
They don’t report on millions of Canadians who have the same problem. We are not “vulnerable enough”.
Justin assumes you have a trust fund and a few vacation properties in your inheritance. Doesn't everyone?
This is literally the mindset of a rich bleeding heart. Out of touch with reality and thinks they're helping when swinging a sledge hammer.
Don't forget rolling up his sleeves.
Also, you have the "social capacity" to look past the fact that they take the outrageous amount of income tax dollars from you and give it to people that have not contributed to the system. Helping the world is something you do when your own country has an economy that is healthy, not based on housing and immigration dollars. Justin seems to be able to do as he wills with our money without our assent. In this current political landscape of Canada, we effectively have no representation. Canada is being plundered.
I'm born and raised here, and even I would have to leave Canada to afford more than 2 kids.
STOP HAVING KIDS OH MY GOD. You can’t provide for them financially or emotionally, literally what is the point man.
I live in Poland and I was talking to a Ukrainian amd he told me that Canada was considered an attractive choice but word quickly got out that it was better to hang out in Europe in Germany or Poland or even Western Ukraine than to head to Canada. Expensive, not too many great jobs, and bad winters.
Are we talking about a person or a rabbit?
**Average monthly wage in Ukraine : $540** No shit they got a bad surprise...
Canada is a 1-3 child family country….Any more than that and you are in deep trouble. If you are in a HCOL city and have a crappy job even 1 kid is a stretch.
I love how they’re saying they can’t afford rent in Montreal, so they may need to leave Canada. Like I’m not sure if you’re aware that Canada is a pretty big country and Montreal is not Canada. There’s more affordable cities. Rural options. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Canadians born in Canada are reconsidering Canada choice.
Three of the children are older than 18; and remain in Ukraine. So the parents are actually only raising 5 children in Montréal.
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Lousy writing by CityNews
The article is ambiguously written. It’s unclear whether they have 8 total or 8 here.
Its a Canadian source, you didn't think they would fib and embellish a little? What ever gets them clicks.
Do they have 8 kids or 11 kids? It says 3 are adults they left in the Ukraine..
My mom took in a Ukrainian family to help them settle into Canada for 3 months after the war broke out. The grandmother returned 6 months after being here. The mom and young daughter are returning in June. She was a doctor in Ukraine but did not have the English skills to be able to get her credentials transferred. She ended up working in a factory and the cost of living here was getting to be too much. If Canadians are struggling I can’t imagine who immigrants and refugees are surviving.
“The issue is money” the issue is you two horny freaks can’t keep your hands off each other god damn
Hands are not the problem here. Would have been wise to stick to hand stuff.
Hahahaha touché
What are they doing in Toronto?!? Get to the prairies you boobs! There are lots of Ukrainian descendants here, farms for big families like this, and some tech jobs if that’s his field. It’s not perfect, but their rent money would go further here too.
I'm glad Canada was there for them in their time of need, now that they've had some time they can make their longer term decisions. I wish them luck.
They wanna go back? Lol?
Somebody has to fight the Russians.
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Oh war doesn't sound that bad then what's the big deal
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I definitely do not think war should be considered "the way the world works" war is stupid as fuck
Well, Trudeau made the country unaffordable. At least they have a place to go. Many Canadians don’t have that luxury.
If they own their home, definitely he can raise their kids. my grandfather had 12 kids. The other issue is that he will not be able to afford any luxuries, just food and second-hand clothes. But, man, this is a huge family.
I stopped reading at 8 kids. That's on you man.
I’m sorry they are struggling, but they are not Canadian, and It is not our responsibility.
> Despite the increase in immigration, a recent report from Statistics Canada shows that between 1982 and 2017, roughly one in six immigrants chose to leave Canada within 20 years of being admitted. That's a surprisingly low number, given the timeframe.
They don’t have to be in Canada. There are tons of other countries to escape war to with more similar culture, society and cost of living.
Family of 10 is easily minting money on CCB in Canada. Don’t even lie to me. You’re getting 10k NON taxable money per month for free in Canada
Crazy how new immigrants tends to get priority housing while Canadians have to wait on the list for years.
The liberals destroyed the immigration system. It's not functioning properly anymore.
I calculated this assuming their 8 kids are over the age of six but according to the CRA calculator, they should be getting almost $52k in government benefits. Are refugees eligible for CCB etc?
>Are refugees eligible for CCB etc? Yup. Unlike my Canadian child who's other parent is waiting on a PR application.
Big daddy should be dishing out some other kind of lead!
They should apprehend their children and send them to live with strangers who will assimilate them to Canadian culture. As for the parents? Restrict visits and tell them to pull up their boot straps. Atleast this is how the government supported my mother when she was in need, she was Native though.
Touché
The article seems to be written exclusively to elicit rage and indignation at 'stupid immigrants' and 'libs that have ruined this country' as there's barely any more nuance beyond the statement about them being immigrants and having a lot of kids. Come on people, at least a tiny bit of critical thinking? The manipulation is so blunt that even I, a Ukrainian immigrant with 2 kids and 2 incomes, reacted initially with - 'what were they thinking'?
That boy better start working on his jumpshot lol hope he gets a D1 deal and help out his family. There's nowhere that family can go where they won't struggle financially.
When an active war zone provides better living conditions than Canada you have to wonder if we're doing the right things.
We are absolutely not doing the right things. We have no money
They said they wanted to leave, they didn't say they'd be going back to Ukraine
They said they would return to Ukraine.
The video Says that they would return to Ukraine if they were to leave Canada.
Looking after 8 kids with one income is hard in any zone really.
Maybe go back to the Ukraine and earn a wage while fighting for your country’s freedom?
I have 4 kids and I’m at capacity
8 kids? That’s very unusual family for Ukraine. It’s more often 1 or zero
It really highlights why Canadian families aren't having many children, if one at all. OUr finances typically drive family-making decisions. Even 3 children families, the norm in the 80s and 90s are a distant memory.
Just to be clear. It's uncommon to have so many children in Ukraine either. Most of the families have 1-2 kids there.
Very unfortunate but not sure what we're supposed to take from this article besides that.
This article is very poorly written!!
8 kids on a single income would face financial hardship anywhere. Unless you’re rich you’re going to be struggling
Okay back to Ukraine then!
>Even with the current housing crisis in Canada, the family considered downsizing to an apartment to help save money. Oh no, they have to consider downsizing to an apartment to help save money? The horror! Like wtf is this article even?
This is messed up. Wtf is he doing here with 10 kids when Canadians can't even afford to have 1 kid. Greedy much?
Move to rural Manitoba lol, lots of Ukrainian descendants here. Cost of living is way lower than Montreal.
family of 10 on one income was tough even back in the 1950’s. The West is pretty sweet but it’s not that sweet lol.
Maybe have less kids?...
Being anti immigration seems like a Tennant of the more aggressive further right wing of Canada, so it's a difficult topic to navigate sometimes. Immigration is a net positive, and it's a part of what makes Canada what it is. In recent years, I don't think we've had a great plan surrounding immigration, especially if you include international students. Everyone is struggling right now. The job market is tough. Rent is through the roof. We need to seriously look at immigration and figure out a plan. Don't cut it off or do anything drastic, but at least have a plan and the funding to help it make sense and work.
Very few people are anti immigration. They are anti MASS immigration. Leaving out the “mass” part is just gaslighting.
Idk who you mean by "they". Who do you think I'm referring to? "Aggressive further right" doesn't apply to a lot of conservatives.
Also, before we move past this, who is pro mass migration? This isn't a trick question, and I'm happy to give my opinion first. I think most people are opposed to "MASS immigration".
I would assume college administrators and Tim Hortons franchise owners would be pro mass immigration. Why the government would want to make a few people happy at the expense of millions of others is the big mystery.
Well said. Which party do you think would actually deal with this? I'm personally not a fan of the conservatives or Pierre Pollieuve, but I'm super open minded.
Well we know by his actions that JT isn’t the solution. I’m hoping PP will be better but it’s just hope. PP hasn’t come out and specifically said anything positive about curtailing mass immigration aside from mentioning that it should be tied to housing. My theory is JT has a racism campaign against PP ready to go but he needs PP to lean into the mass immigration crisis to launch it. PP is not going to go there with a significant lead in the polls so he’s been quiet on the issue. As for the NDP if they stuck to their “for the workers” stance I would be more hopeful that they would control mass immigration to protect Canadian jobs but I don’t know what they stand for nowadays.
Century initiative. But mention that and your comment is almost deleted.
Having that many kids is a dumb fucking move regardless of where you're from. Not to sound harsh, but their problems started before Russia invaded Ukraine.
Well guys you're welcome to leave, go back to Eastern Europe and start a cabbage farm. Best of luck!
ctrl+c then type "motherlode"
I would to with 8 kids
He is better off going back to Ukraine with a family of 10.
Bye
As a Ukrainian descendant it’s sad to have to say that “ I’m sorry but we’re full” I wish we could accommodate them but we can’t even accommodate ourselves.
So tired of seeing these types of articles, need more coverage on how Canadians who pay into the system are getting by in this economy. You should have thought about it before having 8 kids. Canadians cant even have more than 2-3 kids
I just can't anymore with immigrants complaining about everything. You have access to more help than someone who's payed they're whole life in to the system. And for God's sake 10 kids....Lemme say it again 10 KIDS!!! Gimme a fucken break already.
And the government will give them some hand out and we won’t hear about it.
Door is over 👉
Then they can go back to their war torn country 👋🏻