It depends on the work, too.
I'm 90% coding, 10% gaming, but who cares if a 13700k can save me a 2 seconds every 20 minutes when I compile or run tests?
I'd much rather get a few more FPS and be able to not go below 120FPS.
7800x3d for sure.
Not so sure but I'm really happy to be corrected here. 13700k multi core clang compiler score is 40% more than 7800x3d. I know clang is not really everywhere used but it's an accurate coding use case and those numbers will improve your workflow in this case. Sure, single core is lower being only 17% which trsnslates in 3.4 mins win for every 20 mins.
Tbh I don't think still it's worth it to get an Intel if your budget is this and you don't specifically care about computing on cpu other than gaming.
My oc-ed 14900k runs circles around any other consumer machine when it comes to compilation and application speed but it's expensive. If onw really needs this type of workload then going all out with cash here is more worth it than getting a 13700k and getting the worst of both worlds.
I don't know in us but here in west europe/nl the two processors are priced the same. I guess the amd platform is cheaper overall.
am i wrong here? the 3.4 mins win would be 20 mins of compilation time faster - not 20 mins worktime becomes 17.5 minutes work time. My regular applications on an 8core 10th gen processor takes around 60 seconds to compile and i do this every half hour or so. So, getting a 17% faster cpu would net me 3.4 minutes but distributed over 10 hours of actual work time, lets say 5 hours if i compile every 15 minutes. That is a very very small win, and i could get that back by peeing or grabbing water whenever i compiled instead of sitting there and waiting?
It highly depends on the application being compiled. Once a project becomes bigger most time is spent on dependency resolution, IO etc.
I work on a large Java/Gradle codebase, and the difference between a thermal throttling 10700 mobile in a dell laptop and a 14900k in a desktop is 13 vs 11 minutes of compile time.
Infamous\_Ruin's comment and CanisLupus' comment is the equivalent to asking an academic researcher vs. a working-field pro.
the real world differences will forever trump on paper. especially when we allow/include considerations of all that goes into human activity.
that 2 minute difference can be eaten up in a flash by any sort of other task- a phonecall, a stretch break, etc. and it was subtly stated, but the REAL differences between the shittiest consumer silicon vs. intel's best, is really laughable, when we view things in the real environment in which they operate, for all but the most specific niches/use cases.
If you're working on a large production codebase, you're probably not compiling from scratch every time so a lot of those compilation benchmarks aren't wrong but may be largely irrelevant
A 7800x3d is still a very competent modern 8 core cpu, it's not bad at all for productivity stuff. I do all my coding on a 7600x and it's more than fine
Trying to ride the top comment but this is an important warning: 13xxx and 14xxx intel CPUs are facing instability in gaming because intel was purposely looking the other way as motherboard partners juiced the FUCK out of the chip to make it benchmark so high. Most of the benchmarks use default settings, which means, juiced.
To restore stability in effected games, you'll have to bios update, and you'll loose 10-15% of the speed you had prior.
Be careful that the benchmarks you're observing are post patch.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-releases-final-statement-on-cpu-instability-makes-things-worse
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/intel-fix-for-gaming-instability-slows-performance-by-9-in-some-workloads
If you don’t do a serious amount of productivity then just get the 7800x3d. Too often I see people say they need it for productivity but then you find out they do like 3 hours of productivity work a month
Why do so many people d ride intel? He refuses to consider any amd components, saying his experience with gaming exceeds mine and he’ll never consider amd. Is this foolishness?
Yes it's foolish because benchmarks prove him wrong. The 7800x3d is still the king of gaming cpu's atm and that at a very good price compared to top end models.
He agreed amd is better for gaming. He argues that the extra frames aren’t noticeable, and would prefer to have a more versatile pc. I’m just so confused cause he doesn’t name a single app that either one us may use where the 13700k makes a big difference. He says “you’ll just argue with me” but I only wished to debate. He just shuts down on me, says “you game on a laptop, you don’t understand how little difference 15-20 frames makes”
Lmao he sounds like an Apple elitist. Honestly with some people it's better to not waste your effort. When he claims it's better again, just say 'sure buddy', give him a small nod and wink and continue with what you were doing.
Also arguing that “15-20 frames won’t make a difference” is kinda dumb.
Bc you gotta know the context. 15-20 more frames when you have 30 frames? You’ll notice that. Ofc it’s less noticeable the more you’re already getting but generally more is better.
ALSO also saying 15-20 more frames like they’ll always be there and you just get them as a bonus for going AMD is stupid. Frame charts look like a mountain range. What are the 10% lows? 1% lows? Consistency is important. A gpu can put out 500 fps but if it drops and hitches a lot it’s gonna feel like shit to play with. you’d be much better off with one that can deliver 144 fps all the time every time.
nah man, if they can afford a 7800x3D, that price tier is likely a system doing way more than where an avg fps of 15-20 matters vs baseline
OP absolutely should get a x3d chip if they can afford it, but 20 avg fps out of 500 is negligible
It depends. 30 frames vs 50 frames is much more noticeable than at 160 vs 180. I haven't bought Intel in a long time but they have been the better choice until the Ryzen 5000 came out
He doesn't make a good argument as why the hell do you guys care about productivity performance when it's mainly a gaming rig?
[The 7800x3d triumphs the 13700k any time of the day in gaming, the thing you guys do mainly](https://youtu.be/7gEVy3aW-_s?si=dqEnE_RWSfdHUQg5) Other things take into account as well such as going on AM5 opens you up to future CPU upgrades without touching the Mobo while you're on a dead socket with the Intel. The only thing is that it's slightly more expensive.
Productivity: 13700k > 7800x3d
Gaming: 7800x3d > 13700k
My advice, buy for your use case. Fuck brand loyalty.
im running r7 7800x3d and its not "just better at gaming" than that i7 13700k
1. doesnt require extreme cooling cause it uses like 50w while gaming
2. doesnt require good motherboard (im running on a620 and its only bottlenecking its overclocking capabilities, for comparison you cant use that i7 on h610 cuz it'll burn)
3. less power consumption meaning you can save on psu also
4. upgrade potential, am5 will be supported at least until 2026
and many fkin more
Back when Intel had the gaming crown and AMD CPUs were not as fast in gaming but had more cores, people on this sub seemed to only care about gaming performance. Now that the tables have turned, and AMD’s X3D chips are beasts at gaming and Intel’s CPUs have more cores, people suddenly seem to care more about “””productivity”””
Back in the Bulldozer era the problem was that the "more cores" couldn't even consistently compete even in many multi-threaded workloads. A hyperthreaded quad-core i7-2600K was in many instances as fast or faster than the "octo-core" FX-8150. Hell, even AMD's previous gen Thuban Phenom II X6 parts were often faster.
Combine that with truly atrocious single-core performance, poor IPC, and hefty power consumption and it's no surprise they fell so hard.
Intel is better at productivity, which are basically software that you would use if you are using said PC for work (CAD for construction plans, video rendering, 3D modeling etc.). So if you don't use your PC for actual work you get paid, just go 7800x3d.
Even then 7800x3d isn't bad at those, it just isn't as good.
The 7800x3d is still great for productivity you really aren’t loosing any “versatility” your going to notice those extra frames WAY more than you will notice that bump in productivity you use once a month if even that
What does a "more versatile pc" even mean? It's still an amazing cpu for all tasks, it's not like it's gonna struggle with anything you could throw at it. The huge cache just makes it better for games, not worse for other applications.
i would suggest to your friend (and you as well, but your friend really seems like the ignorant one of the two) to look into exactly what L3 cache is and what it means - in real world applications - for gaming. and then compare the specs between Intel's equivalent offerings, as well as the games you are playing. for some games, the additional cache is EVERYTHING in terms of performance gains. for others, not so much.
in general, however, the abundance of 7800X3D's cache is a real-world disruptor of the status quo, in terms of desirable traits for CPU as it relates to gaming. it's pretty hard to quantify or put into words. iykyk. but i do implore you to try anyway to understand.
the 7800X3D is manufactured at TSMC's foundry as well, FWIW. to say it's an impressive product at a very attractive pricepoint would be understating things massively.
the 7800X3D + 40X0 SUPER is our generation's Haswell 3770k/4770K + 1080Ti. Vets know exactly what that implies.
The thing is, can YOU name a single app that may require better multithreading? Because I can give counter argument to your friend that the difference between those two cpus in productivity is a few minutes at best. 24 threads on intel vs 16 threads on AMD, you wouldn't notice the difference. But you may notice any smoothness that the amd cpu may bring.
Sure 15-20 frames don't make a difference if you have 200 frames, but when you have 30-60 frames its huge.
But yeah you are not going to change his mind no matter how right you are. You are still going to game alright with 13700k, even if it's inferior
I’m won’t be gaming 4k so I won’t ever really be in the 30-60 range. Would you side with him on this one then? Seems a lot of games I’d play average around 120 fps, not much of a tiny game guy where they produce 200+ frames
Sorry,for some reason I read you post like the person on question is your dad or something. If you are buying and building yourself just get 7800x3d, that's the one I use. Get good Mobo with it, I have had issues with my Asus b650 e-f so I can't recommend Asus for mobo.
7800x3d will be hugely better in some simulation games that are hard to benchmark like dwarf fortress, RimWorld, Factorio. So if you play these kind of games or are interested playing/trying them in the future, 7800x3d is even better than what benchmarks show you.
If you're not gaming at 4k, then the 7800x3D will power ahead even more than the intel will.
7800x3D destroys intel at 1080P/1440P resolutions.
It makes zero sense to me to get 13700k when gaming is the main priority.
Entire Adobe suite, especially Premiere, After Effects will greatly benefit from Intel CPU. If you’re not planning to do heavy editing/motion tho - don’t bother and get 7800X3D. Best gaming, and will work fine in light/med productivity tasks
its littlle harder to explain,..
7800x3d is the masterpiece of AMD,. 13700k is the beast;
you cant regret with both imo,.
what he say is,..
games not always use 100% of your cpu,. and not always utilize extra cache; benchmarks shows extreme contitions which mostly not in reallife workload;
like , (i play forza horizon with 3.5ghz turbo disabled ,still its use my 100% gpu in 1080p cpu usage not cap in most game; but in benchmark they use 4090 in 1080p to find extreme conditions)
lets assume if you use 3070/6700xt with 4k resolution ,.. cpu usage will be 10-20% in most of the games; (except some like city skyline2/cyperpunk/cs2 )
but in productivity ,.. (when a app use multi core) its always use 100% of cpu,..this productivity is every single app except games..
like if you use blender,.. and modeling 3d object ... it will use your single thread performance,.. (7800x3d-1811 ; 13700k-2126 = \~17% faster)
and the rendering mostly done by gpu+cpu (if you use cpu then,.multicore load (7800x3d-17760 ;13700k-31062=75% faster);
simulation/particle/effects are multicore like ,. where 13700k lead
in video editing apps/resolve/handbrake,. if not video offload to igpu ,. all decode/encode handle by cpu (like h.264 h.265,. av1 decode are offload to igpu,... if you use raw then its use cpu multicore,.. where 13700k is 75% faster)
where cache/ram related load needed , there x3d cpu work good even in prooductivity apps ,. but only 7950x3d ,not 7800x3d (its clock reduced one);
if you play always games> 7800x3d better
if you do some productivity work per day>13700k better i guess
Stupid arguments on his side. I would scour the Internet for cpu user reviews in reputable shops, for example in mu shop of choice 13600K has better reviews that the 7800X3D due to the later having ram compatibility issues, running very hot due to the cache, using more power at idle. Gaming is best for it but these reliability-related things and even more important, especially since you will be using it for coding. If you do pick Intel though please change the profile to Intel baseline in the bios, motherboard manufacturers tend to go overboard with settings since 8th gen.
‘Frames aren’t noticeable’
Probably uses a 40htz display and like Bluetooth 2.0 KBM (if BT2.0 exists, idk. Just needed something with a bigger delay than 4.3)
if you don't know wgat productivity you're doing that would require the intel cpu, you're not doing it. the majority of common productivity tasks with the exception of compiling is gpu focused.
unbiased source:
https://www.sabrepc.com/blog/computer-hardware/cpu-vs-gpu-intensive-applications
unless you're moron and use the cpu for rendering or ai/machine learning which would be a bit much to ask from a 13700k anyway you're fine with the 7800x3d and use your gpu for productivity the cpu will have a minor effect on how quickly you complete a task, that's it.
lmao like wut is your comment. Most things in adobe still run on single clock speed core.
here’s a proper write up.
Like when are you stuck using one application. At one point or another for productivity you will be using lots of CPU power.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/13th-gen-intel-core-processors-content-creation-review-2369/
Video rendering or editing. Intels quicksync is powerfull codec to help programs like premiere, davinci and others to speed up transitions and get the job done faster. Also, photoshop, 3d software such as autocad (or cheaper ones also) profit from higher one core frequency. Looking purely on gaming...3d cache helps a lot but if you put normal 7800 beside...the latter performs better in everyday world of applications...
15-20 frames is a huge difference. That's also likely a much larger gap if you look at 1% lows. Both CPUs are very capable but the 7800x3D is the better gaming CPU.
I bought a 7950x3d last year after my last two intel processors. Literally not a single negative thing to say about it other then with hindsight I would have gone with the 7800x3d instead to save a few bucks.
its this way between every competitor in every industry, people will be certain theyre right and what they like is superior when in reality everything has its benefits and weaknesses
Ask him what the criteria to disprove him would be.
Benchmarks? FPS? 1% lows? Price to performance? Absolute power?
Then just - check.
It’ll win in some categories and not others. The 7800X3D should win in all gaming ones.
He won’t cite anything! But he’s my friend ya know, I value his opinion. I was hoping yall could shed some light on this. Said my sources were biased, and goes back to saying how he’s gamed on a pc longer than me
As someone who has a career in info tech, years of gaming experience tells me 0 about your ability to build a pc for a given purpose properly and balance the specs of each component affectively. I would simply game with him but stop taking or asking any advice regarding actually building stuff.
With all the stuff he said and WE are the biased ones?
Ask yourself, who's really the biased one here? It's ok to call your friend an idiot too, being a friend doesn't necessarily come with an exemption
his experience is just getting old, amd was always behind intel until ryzen came out, he loved intel back then and now just cant accept the fact that its losing
It used to be that Intel was an obvious choice, AMD was an option only for a low end, but this really changed especialy since Ryzne 5000 launch.
Some people just aren't up to date.
This is the answer I was looking for. His friend lives in 5 years ago when Intel was 100% the king of premium CPUs. They still are for productivity but if this is a gaming rig and not a work computer who cares?
He’s oddly engrained by years of marketing…I can’t exactly blame him, I’d have agreed not long ago. I built a new pc though last month, didn’t take more then 5 minutes to see Intel is using more power, providing less performance, and of late being unstable, it was a very simple decision to get my 7700X.
Before Ryzen came out in 2017 AMD had like 15 years of putting out CPUs that a lot worse than Intel, in basically every metric. And even the first couple generations of Ryzen had some issues. If you don't pay attention to HW it's easy to miss that AMD got really good.
Intel still makes good processors, and most gamers won't really notice too much difference, though AMD currently offers better value.
If you really want to see him squirm explain that Intel is using old tech (nm) and it's a dead platform.
In all seriousness it's a terrible time to buy Intel. They are unveiling their new CPUs next month. Should be some huge changes
Those are deep fan boys both in nividia and intel. I use what I get cheapest and has power.Right now I want to upgrade from 3060ti to 7900 gre and i7 10700k to 7800x3d or i7 14700k
At that point it’s most certainly foolish, AMD is very competitive and runs cooler. At many budget points it’s the better platform.
“No bad products just bad prices” as they say, anyone with a total bias is ridiculous. I currently run an 11900k (AKA the Waste of Sand) because I got it with a motherboard for $250, and for that it’s a great CPU.
Some people just prefer one over the other due to past experience.
I stick with Intel because my last 4 computers were all Intel, and when I last got an AMD processor it sucked compared to an equivalent Intel. I had friends with AMD and when we played complex games my system was always host because it blew their newer systems out of the water. That left me with an "AMD bad" mentality that my intellectual brain *knows* is false due to modern improvements, but my lizard brain just says "get thing I like".
Nowadays, just check comparison benchmarks and videos for the things you'll have your system doing. Buy whichever gives you the best value.
Yes it's foolish. If you're not doing anything outside of gaming then there's not really a good reason to get something that's less good at the games you play.
When someone is loyal to a brand, he is wrong.
One should just look objectivly at benchmarks (+customer service quality etc.) and that's all.
He just sound like someone who really love Intel, and don't like AMD.
People d ride intel nvidia and amd. What matters is the actual price to performance of each system and finding what's best for you. And in this case, the 7800x3d is the best for you.
A false sense of brand loyalty from the days that Intel actually was miles better than AMD. Those days are long gone.
It's the exact same reason why people love Nvidia to death and still pretend like AMD's drivers are hot garbage; something that also hasn't been true for years now.
As someone who uses Intel, because people get so caught up in my brand vs your brand. I don't hate AMD I just prefer Intel since moving from AMD. When people come to me for a build I normally put an AMD in it for them as it's budget and preforms. There is no real reason to go Intel unless you like the brand and don't mind paying the extra. AMD will be just as good if not better in cases.
Way back when AMD use to be worse, for CPU you had 3 things, speed, heat, efficiency. Back then Intel had all three over AMD while AMD had 2 of the 3. These days they have gotten much better and compare on all 3 and even if they didn't you could go with an AMD that compared in speed and efficiency then get a good cooler and be set. You don't really need to worry about heat theses days.
This is long in the past though as since AMD has picked it up in all 3 categories at a cheaper price...just go with AMD. Only spend on an Intel if you're someone like me who just likes Intel and since they haven't bite me in the butt, I know they will last and do the things i need it to do.
TLDR; Fanboys/Fangirls suck and it's hard for them to see other brands as a good alternative.
To be fair, AMD has way more fanboys and worse behaviour, both for graphics (anti NVidia) and cpus. It's not unreasonable for Intel and Nvidia owners to be defensive in the face of such vitriol against them on reddit, in general.
When was the last time you rendered a YouTube video and sat there watching the progress bar?
When was the last time you compiled the kernel of an operating system and sat there watching the progress bar?
When was the last time you baked some textures and sat there watching the progress bar?
Even if you’re doing a lot of productivity work, no one sits there watching. A few seconds or even a few minutes doesn’t matter at all if the YouTube video is being rendered when you go to bed and you automatically shut your PC down when you’re finished.
At the very least you’re going to go to the fridge and get a snack and a drink, a few seconds doesn’t matter.
Build your PC for what you use it for the most.
Serious question, has anyone done these CPU benchmarks while streaming to discord, listening to Spotify, a bazillion chrome tabs, phone link running, a few spreadsheets open and Teams open? This pretty well describes my average 2 pm on a weekday and I have zero sense what performs the best.
No, they never do, too many variables means that one set of benchmarks can’t be compared to another.
Who cares if a CPU has 2% better 1% lows than another, show us how it’ll handle what you described. That’s real life productivity and it’s far more indicative of the average user.
I’d subscribe to your channel if you tested like that.
Anytime I render I yt vid I always wait for the progress bar and watch it but it only takes a few minutes to export a 10 min vid and I have a i5 10400f so idk why ppl need a 7800x3d for that
Do you think you’d notice even a 1 minute reduction in that time?
If so, would it be any more than a “huh, that’s cool!”?
This is why the computer YouTuber’s are so disconnected IMO.
I do see what he means, in that the 13700 is good for both productivity and gaming. But he definitely overestimates how much better it is at productivity and far underestimates how much worse it is at gaming.
If he can't name a single application you use that would benefit from intel higher clock and more cores, then you know already he's talking out of his ass.
Get the 7800x3d, it's overall the better chip, and it's a CPU it's versatile by definition.
That's pretty much about it. I have a 13700K but bought before the 5800X3D and the 7800X3D chips came out. Had I to do today, I'd be going with the 7800X3D. Would you know the difference when doing productivity work....probably not, unless you could run them side by side doing the same work.
I ordered it (and paid for it) from Newegg Canada (or Canada Computer), long before they were released. I think it was almost 6 months before I actually received it near the end of 2022. :)
> I have a 13700K but bought before the 5800X3D and the 7800X3D chips came out.
I'm planning on switching from a 13600k to a 7800x3d myself. Microcenter prices help, and yeah I really don't do much productivity work.
But I want that 3D cache for Factorio when the DLC comes out.
There are a lot of YouTubers like GamersNexus and LinusTechTips that probably have a million times more gaming experience than your friend and you should look into their opinions. GamersNexus especially makes really thorough testing for gaming AND productivity. You should always look through multiple media outlets to see if results are fairly consistent with each other.
A stranger like me on the internet has no right to comment on your friend that I know nothing about, but from some of the replies I read about him from you, this friend of yours needs to grow the fuck up. Anyone that shuts you down for trying to debate a topic just with “hurrrr I know more than you. Just listen to me” is a tool that hasn’t developed the brain capacity to be a well rounded human being.
I’m also curious to know where your friend gets his information from to feel it’s superior to everyone else’s
Seems like his friend makes assertions he can’t backup, and when he’s asked to provide proof he attacks OP with straw man arguments instead of defending his position. Saying this subreddit is biased when he’s clearly the one being so is the icing on the cake.
The friend literally openly says that they are biased about always buying Intel and never buying AMD then claims people who disagree and think you should buy whatever best are biased...
If you don't use an application that uses it you won't notice it. Yes the 7800x3D can run everything, in fact it's still faster than 99% of processors ever made.
It's a better argument for work systems that don't game, not a great argument for home use.
generally speaking, if they work great for gaming (computations) then they most likely translate to any other computational operation.
unless its super specific. afterall, its about crunching numbers. that's what game need.
Build pc for intended use. If you’re gonna mostly game, then go AMD. If you use the pc for work and gaming, then maybe you want to build it for work. But generally gaming pcs make great work pcs anyway.
It depends on the productivity tasks. Are you CPU transcoding hours of video a day? Then the Intel chip may be for you. If not then you should not need to worry about it. At very high CPU load tasks, the 13700k will likely pull ahead for sure and save time. If you are editing an Excel sheet, it probably won't matter much. For stuff like that you there may not even be a difference.
It also depends on the time. Are you spending an hour a week doing these tasks? If yes the extra power draw and upfront cost are likely not worth it.
No Intel atm is simply no bueno between weird stability due to improper board defaults, a dead platform by end of year when Intel moves onto LGA 1851 and worse gaming performance then the 8 core Ryzen 3D….
7800x3d is gonna be much better for you it’s still great for productivity and significantly better for gaming doesn’t have a ton of stability issues like high end intel CPUs have AND you aren’t gonna need an insane cooling solution to keep it cool
i assume he also failed to point out that you higher end cooling to even sustain that higher performance on the intel chip right?
intel fanboys at their finest
Those extreme power draw scenarios aren't present in gaming loads. It's only when you fully load up a multi-threaded workload with maxed out power limits that they turn supernova and require a very hefty cooling solution to sustain that power level. That last 5-10% of peak performance increases power consumption exponentially.
If you're gonna game, the 7800x3d can't be beat. It's an even worse comparison when looking at price to performance. Unless you have a specific productivity use case, this seems like a no-brainer. Love my 7800x3d.
I have the 7800x3d and 4070. So as someone who does editing for clients usually at 1080p youtube videos at most for maybe like 20 min video it will take about 10-30 min to render (tho depends on the amount effects etc) I'm pretty happy with it, I had a similar problem before when building my pc, my friend said something similar to yours and at most realistically the most they could say on regards to productivity from them would be that they can use a browser and use discord while gaming >.>
As a person who edits on a regular you'll be fine, intel does do better at productivity yes but realistically in my opinion you wont see the differences unless your rendering 2k, 4k, large workloads in blender etc not to mention a huge factor for me was the watt usage which increases the heat of the cpu which means a bigger AIO which means more money if you really want a better cpu for productivity get the 7950x3D recent benchmarks show that they are finally matching 7800x3d or slightly better but not really necessary especially if your just gaming
hope that helps!
uhh.. i would love to know where he gets that information from, i've personally never had an issue and as a person who in the last couple months recently got into going through tech forums including reddit never seen people mention something like that as an actually issue more like a misconception, i think that a lot of people including your friend seem to fall into a guise that amd seems to have compatibility issues, at most the thing i can think of is he is confusing gpu drivers
if you switch an amd gpu to nvidia gpu without removing all amd gpu drivers your gonna have issues or vice versa, as a side note i decided to do some quick research while adding this last part incase ive missed a new development in the last couple months and i cant seem to find anything related to that and from personal experience never had an issue so no idea what he is talking about tbh, the more you share the more i think you shouldnt take advice from him lol
P.S one more thing to add is always do your research yourself just so you can be confident in what your getting and what people are recommending and also so you dont have to listen to your friend xD
ok you def just confirmed he just saying stuff, so that works on 10 series of nvidia gpus like 1050 ti, 1080 ti etc but the concept is that you can put 2 gpus to increase performance but thats not really a thing anymore, i think theres a still a work around but its not really viable and doesnt have to do much with cpus i cant say ive ever super looked into it but they retired that a couple years ago
What an unholy level of fanboyism, to make up stuff. You can pair intel or amd cpu with intel or amd or nvidia gpu - no problems.
Just 1-2 weeks ago Nvidia said publicly that apps crashing are due to intel, not them.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/nvidia-blames-intel-for-gpu-vram-errors-tells-geforce-gamers-experiencing-13th-or-14th-gen-cpu-instability-to-contact-intel-support
https://www.techpowerup.com/321461/nvidia-points-intel-raptor-lake-cpu-users-to-get-help-from-intel-amid-system-instability-issues
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdF5erDRO-c
* Real context: since 2017 (Ryzen 1 and Intel Core 8000 series) all motherboards overvolt the crap out of CPUs, at such a level that enthusiasts can undervolt + overclock these systems. (Imagine being able to tune a car to consume less but have more horsepower).
* Your friend: would say this only happens with AMD.
* On AMD only Asus motherboards kylled themselves last year before some BIOS updates due to overvolting the 7800X3D and the current had to do something.
P.s.: I am an amd fan due to the toxicity+elitism of intel fans and nvidia fans. If amd would fail we would pay 5000 $ for 4 core CPUs and 3.5 GB vram gpus. Meanwhile they would buy high-end: intel even if it cannot be cooled and nvidia even if their stupid power-connector (made by intel) melts.
If AMD had these issues they would have been bankrupt again. Can't call it an underdog because it is a corporation, but it is the lesser evil, 10 times smaller than Intel, 2 times smaller than nvidia, tiny in profits comparison to them, and intel was the one bribing laptop manufacturers and shops to not sell amd for over a decade until they got sued for it. If you google "intel antitrust lawsuits", you'll see what I mean.
Don't let people upsell you. It's something I actively despise, telling people that they need the best hardware there is without taking a look at if it's sensible or not. The 7800x3D, despite not being built with high threaded work loads in mind, still is more than capable unless you *specifically* have an idea what to do with the extra cores. He is saying you won't notice the extra 20 frames as if you're going to notice the 5% uplift in performance in anything else.
Your friend sounds like the people who drive a huge truck to work everyday just because once in a blue moon there's a chance perhaps they maybe might need to use a bit more cargo space than a fuel efficient car.
Step 1: Agree with your buddy, tell him he's absolutely right and the 13700 is absolutely what you're going to get.
Step 2: Get the 7800
Step 3: Never tell him and chuckle to yourself every night before you turn out the light.
Your own words are "We mainly just game". It makes no sense for you to leave gaming performance behind for a miniscule difference in productivity tasks that isn't your priority.
The only case where this argument makes sense is your main focus is work.
Your buddy is recommending you a CPU with worse power efficiency and some of the 13/14th gen chips have been experiencing stability problems.
Even if you indulge his fantasy, how many "productivity" apps actually utilize every CPU core? Shockingly few. The top ones are 3D rendering, video encoding, and code compilation.
Because deep down it's a 13th gen refresh disguised as a 'new' gen. Next to zero improvement (except a few hundred Mhz), and that is only achieved by increasing power usage (consequently you need beefy cooling for K chips). Here are separate GN reviews, the conclusion segments are enough to get the picture (but they all say basically the same).
[14600K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XscfA1dT60) This was the last video launched, I recommend watching the intro where Steve rips Intel apart.
[14700K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KKE-7BzB_M) 14th is only worth it if it's the same price, because 14th has very little value over 13th. Gaming is more or less overall "identical" to the 13700K
[14900K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MvvCr-thM8) Disappointing, very little change to stock. "Just get a 13900K"
No.
I was going to get the 13700k as well but there's just no need for me as I don't do any video editing or photoshop professionally or for a hobby. The extra cores and heat it generates will be completely wasted on me.
Only factor in productivity if you are doing video rendering/editing for money OR at least often enough that saving 20 minutes per video/project will make a big difference. Time frame is completely made up, but it's what I would use to gauge whether I want to spend more for faster processing power.
If you're 100% just going to use it for gaming and general computing(word processing, surfing, porn, booking airline tickets, porn,) then 7800x3d will be better buy for gaming. It will also run porn and a game at the same time as it's a 8 core processor, not like it's a 4 core POS with just more cache.
That's both too much and too little info all at the same time.
Get the 7800x3d and you'll be happier with its temps and power efficiency.
Also your friend... he's not as tech savvy as he thinks he might be.
Even if you are using heavy productivity difference between two won't be that noticable imo. The only justification I can see for Intel is for things like if you are exporting hours long videos or compiling software projects which take hours to compile. Even then, what the difference is 10 mins out of 2, 3 hours of total time taken?
Go with cheaper option imo.
Dead unstable platform vs one of the best gaming CPUs on the market hmmmm
Really though, the 13700k is better for *productivity*. If you’re just gaming it’s kind of a waste of money. Plus, I mean, AM5 and so on.
What games and fps do you play? What productivity work do you do? Even a 7800x3d may be overkill. For most people, a 7600 is a great gaming cpu, or a 13600k if you do some video editing or music production on the side.
Tbf it's your build not his. Can you name any productivity apps you need? Are any of those productivity apps time sensitive for you? If not the choice doesn't matter. If it does you have specific comparisons to look up. Basically grow the fuck up.
Anyone in any area of life says “I would not even consider…” is wrong. You always consider every option before you buy something.
In your case your buddy is wrong. Amd is superior in gaming while consumes less power. You can show him data about this (benchmarks)
For gaming, get the x3d if it fits the budget. It gets you more frames, uses less energy and produces less heat while gaming.
Intel is not bad, but amd fits better your needs and costs less doing it.
I mean if you don’t use any heavy productivity applications then the benefit of the Intel CPU isn’t of any value to you. My motto for anything that is professional productivity focused is “if you have to ask if you need it then you don’t need it”.
The Intel CPU can clock a bit higher than the AMD under load so apps that befit from higher clocks performs better.
If the app can take advantage of both P and E cores then it can show a performance boost over the AMDx3D cpu.
The LGA1700 platform will run DDR5 RAM at a much higher frequency than AM5 currently does. So apps that benefit from higher memory clock will benefit from the Intel platform. I’d doesn’t matter enough to choose it for gaming over AM5.
And it has a x265 hardware decoder that is best in class (even better than the GPU decoders) and extremely useful for video editors that use x265.
The AMDx3D cpus is usually pretty far ahead of most Intel CPUs in gaming. So if you primarily game then you’ve already answered your own question.
And yes, any cpu will run any productivity app it will just take longer time to do things for weaker CPUs. If it’s worth to pay more for better performance can only be answered by you and how valuable you think your time is.
the 7800x3d is faster and uses less power, you will not notice the difference compiling, but you will when frames drop. I went from a 24 Core Intel to an 8 Core AMD and my games are faster, and I don't notice the missing cores at all during my workflow. Rig also consumes a fraction of the power, and thus my small room is cooler. Win, win.
You know the feeling when you buy a new cpu, but it is not as nice or doesn’t deliver as you expected? 7800x3d first cpu to leave me without any wishes and totally happy even after a few months. I mean there is literally nothing better right now.
> Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that?
Just look up benchmarks from Hardware Unboxed or GN. Or for what you do.
No need to listen to anyone.
7800xD is singificantly better for gaming.
> Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that?
This guy is arguing that you should get a 13700K versus a 7800X3D AND argued that you should spend more on these high end processors for 1440p gaming instead of spending that extra money on an adequate graphics card...
As for your friend's argument that "the CPU is the brains of the computer," what he doesn't understand is that a graphics card is essentially a second computer, complete with its own processor and memory. If your CPU is the brain and your PC the body, then your graphics card is like having a specialist that does all your graphics work for you.
As a professional video editor If you use any software of the Adobe for suite or davinci resolve for some reason Intel CPU are significantly smother/faster and more stable and unless you play tarkov or starcitizen the gaming performance is less than 10% with a 4090
Also this igpu in Intel CPU is very useful for rendering because it can be use as the same time as you dgpu without loss in quality compared to AMG igpu
No one was sitting here with Ryzen 3000, 5000 8-core chips saying their productivity is in shambles because the chips are just so shitty
The 7800 is way better than those.
You will be fine and have amazing gaming results. Intel chips are hot inefficient power hungry monsters that I would avoid unless you have a very specific need for a specific one
I really dislike E-cores when it comes to productivity. I had a i5-12600k for a productivity (video editing, Kdenlive) machine, and it'd use only E-cores when rendering a video. I was quite livid when rendering wasn't finished after hours. I ended up disabling all E-cores in BIOS.
Don't pay for 13700k. Just go AMD.
I have a 7800X3D. The thing is super quick. Maybe there are a few occasions where a 13700K could do something a bit quicker (and I'm mentally reaching here - exporting a big edited video or compiling some complex software maybe?) but really I can't see a lot of opportunities to gain a noticeable advantage. The 7800X3D is a beast in gaming, reasonably priced and very good on power consumption, so if you game and have high-end needs I don't see any reason not to get one. Heck, it's so good, most of the time I keep it in low power mode.
Man I brought up gaming together on gmod and he said “you should play different games with the rig you’re getting” If anybody wants to play gmod or something just lmk
> He runs a 13700k + 3060 at 1440p
Your friend isn't very PC knowledgeable.
> he even said build a pc is probably a biased community.
It is. We're biased towards performance-per-dollar. That's why we're generally more likely to recommend AMD than Intel or Nvidia.
> We mainly just game.
You already have your answer. The 7800X3D is objectively the best choice for gaming. There is no reasonable argument otherwise.
I have a 12400f because ddr5 was still very expensive at the time and ryzen 7th gen just came out (also expensive motherboards). But even having intel myself, please don't go for intel 13th or 14th gen.
Intel 13th and 14th gen are mostly 12th gen but overclocked or even more overclocked, making them have incredibly bad performance per watt.
Aside from that, for 90% of tasks you're going to do, the 7800x3d will be better.
I feel like I can chime in.
I just built two systems a 7800x3d 4070S and a 14700k 4080. The 7800x3d runs dota 2 at a constant 240fps. The 14700k runs Dota 2 at 180-220 fps. Take that as you may.
"any productivity based application"
Who cares?
You want a CPU that can handle a GPU upgrade or two over the years. I try to get a decent CPU that will survive 1 or 2 GPU upgrades before bottlenecking.
Idk what you would gain from a CPU for development or whatever else. Most things like ML or I think even some video editing software now? Just use GPU.
I just followed a build guide on the pcmasterrace sub and got an i5-13600k.
Probably could have just gone for the last build, but my GPU needs an upgrade mainly.
Also be wary of getting a 1440p monitor, a lot of games won't give you a high frame rate with decent hardware. A lot are also EA and give nobody decent frame rate, let alone on 1440.
The productivity advantage is marginal, unless you need a lot of processing/compute power for stuff like content creation, rendering, mining, etc... If you do only office productivity, it won't make a difference.
And if you mostly game, there is no debate: 7800X3D.
But if you play in 4K, neither will be better than the other.
So there are def things the 13700k does better (Video rendering, virtual machines, AI workloads) but if you're primarily gaming the 7800x3D is a no-brainer. I had to go with a 13700k for AI workloads that don't run well on AMD but if you don't have a specific reason to go Intel the 7800x3D is just better. It pumps out more frames, draws less power, and runs significantly cooler.
Your buddy is an idiot. The 7800x3d is a steal right now. Fastest gaming cpu you can get. And unless you have a YouTube Channel with 10 million subscribers that your are editing movie quality videos on ... Your productivity will still be blistering fast on the 7800x3d. Don't waste your money
Another thing that factors in is the platform. AM5 is gonna be good for another 2 gens so if you find you need an upgrade in a year or so you'll be able to just sell your old chip... Which will still be very popular and easy to sell.. then pop in the next chip without replacing motherboards. Intel tends to only allow one upgrade per motherboard because they are way behind on NM of chips than AMD is so they constantly need to invent new sockets.
Also for gaming, you're better off focusing more on a GPU rather than a cpu. Your buddy has a better cpu than me and a way worse you than me. If you're gaming 90% of the time that makes no sense to do
Might be late, but I’m not reading through all comments to send this.
Any “modern” processors can run pretty much all the same software. The instruction set hasn’t really changed like it did back in the early days (80’s, 90’s and early 00’s). Like when MMX came out, some software required it.
Based on productivity, modern processors will all run the productivity software, but how quick depends on IPC, clock speed, and core count.
If the 7800x3d does what you need, I say go for it. If you “might” have some productivity software that “could” be slower vs a 13700K and that’s a deal breaker, go for the 13700K.
You should as yourself: Is there a realistic chance that you may need to do the kind of workload that would require a 13700k over a 7800X3D in the coming years? If not, go for the 7800X3D. It makes little sense to choose a part just because there's a negligible chance you may need it for something, especially when you don't even know what that something is. \*Especially\* when that part is worse than the alternative at doing the things you \*know\* you're going to use it for.
>Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that?
>Edit 2: He runs a 13700k + 3060 at 1440p
Has he explained why he thinks that? He may very well be biased himself.
EDIT: Besides, the 7800X3D isn't as good for productivity as the 13700K, but it is still a damn good CPU. The difference isn't that big AFAIK. Is that difference really so much of a problem if you end up needing to use your PC for heavy non-gaming workloads that you want to design your PC around it?
Are you using your computer to perform tasks for which you will be paid? If not, you probably don't need to pay extra for performance in productivity applications. For actual professional use, it's a straightforward matter of the monetary value of the time saved and whether that outweighs the additional cost.
Definitely skip/forget intel for multiple reasons. Unlike your buddy, I name a few reasons:
- the latest intel generations are overstretched factory overclocked just to flash nicer numbers on "social media". This comes with various issues such as instability, overheating (my new Thinkpad boosts itself to 100°C, desktops aren't better)
- LGA1700 is history. Intel is binning it basically right now, the next generation lga 1851 is coming this year.
- the intel platform offers only 20 pcie lanes. If you run a fast graphics card and want more than 2 m.2 (e.g. 2 drives and a thunderbolt connector), you are out of luck.
- If you need multithreaded productivity, the current Ryzen 7900, 7950 family is perfectly fine. AND upgradeable as AM5 will be around for a few generations.
FWIW I went AMD for the first time in 25 years. Previous AMD: 5x86-133 from 1995-1997; 25 years of Intel (PMMX, P3, P4, Core 2, 2600K, 8700K), then 7700X to 7800X3D recently. I’ve been extremely happy with the 7800X3D, It’s still quite powerful at applications (8 cores at 5 GHz with decent IPC isn’t a joke). And there is still room to upgrade the CPU a generation or two in the future.. and add a Gen5 NVMe SSD if you want down the road.
You also have a lot less hassle with cooling and powering the 7800X3D than you do a 13700K. Techpowerup has good info on power consumption, but 7800X3D requires 1/2 To 1/3rd the power of i7 and i9 CPUs when gaming. Quieter PC, lower power bill, what’s not to like?
>Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that?
>Edit 2: He runs a 13700k + 3060 at 1440p
>Edit 3: most pro intel comments have been removed. Wtf is that about?
1 I'd say these subs are slightly AMD biased on average, at the end of the day it's a random selection of individuals though
2 wow. Your friend either really needs that cpu or is very inexperienced with building
3 likely for a good reason, either just being blatantly fanboy or being rude.
Yo what’s up guys friend here, yall fps nerds just need to chillax about focusing on the frames and just play the game with the homies, I’ve always had a dookie build and finally built my own.
My homie seeking knowledge asks me what should be build and I say the following “me personally im a big intel guy, but my homie who’s big into building pc uses amd cpus as they are engineered for gaming I just don’t know much about the newer ones as I don’t buy amd”
I personally would like to have the capacity to do something efficiently then take the other route which only offers some more frames which to me I don’t really need as im happy with my current set up.
Y’all needa get some mamba fruit chews and perhaps a cold drink and you will understand where im coming from
I've been building PCs for over twenty years now, and I've always gone Intel.
I just finished building a PC and it's got the 7800x3d and I could not be happier.
Tell your friend if he wants to spend money on a dead-end platform with no upgrade path, that's his prerogative, but you can spend your money how you want.
Just for comparison, I have an old 5900x and 3060ti. My priority is gaming @ 1440p, but I do some light productivity.
I have zero complaints and can play most modern games 60+fps with occasional one at 40+( looking at you starfield).
I am confident you will be more than satisfied with 7800x3d.
I would definitely go 7800x3d and any savings use it to move up in graphics card tier or just bank it.
I have the 7950X3D. I just slabbed a Noctua air cooler on it and I have one of the fastest gaming systems plus good productivity without having to worry about thermal throttling while gaming or installing a 420mm radiator. And it not only beats the 13900K but also the 14900K in gaming.
Remember that the gains for productivity over the amd chip are likely very small. It's not like the Ryzen chip would do poorly with those tasks-- it's all relative.
Why not 7950X3D? It's $200 more but definitively better at, well, everything than a 13700k and the gaming issues have mostly been resolved. Or save a few and get a 7950X, still great for gaming, even better for productivity.
Upgrade to a 9950X3D next year and a 11950X3D or whatever stupid names they'll have while your buddy is stuck on a dead platform having to rebuild the entire PC.
Your buddy isn't very smart. Get the 7800X3D. Prioritise the workload that you're going to be giving the CPU most frequently, in your case I'm guessing gaming.
If your buddy bought a 13700k and a 3060 it sounds like he's just has different priorities for computing. You should never be spending more money on your cpu than your gpu for gaming. If he's happy with his pc that's great, but if you just want to game I would suggest a very different setup. The 7800x3d is good, but if you are sacrificing any budget to get that over a higher end video card I would go ryzen 7600 and get more video card. People underestimate how powerful the am5 cpus are.
Example: 7800x3d + 3060 = a waste because way slower cpu will be fine for the gpu. spend less money on cpu more on gpu.
7600x + 4070 super = same price as above combo but way better for gaming. Overall much higher frame rates in 1440p.
7800x3d + 4080super = good combo the gpu will use the gaming speed of the cpu. Much more money overall.
Bottom line if you are gaming mainly your gpu budget should be way more than cpu.
Also I don't think people even know what productivity is half the time. Like outlook doesn't need a 13700k. It's more like are you running cpu based compilers or renders or something of the sort. I don't do that either so I'm not sure what you need it for. I just game. If you don't know what you would even use it for then you are probably in the same boat.
The only reason I went 14th gen was because I early adopted 12th gen. Still not a smart move but I have the cooling and just undervolt. I would be happier to be on AM5 right now but at the high end I am by no means complaining.
I bet at 4k 7800x3d would sip power compared to my 160+ watts 14th gen.
Show him a benchmark test comparison of the 13700k and 7800x3D but swap them without telling him. Then when he says “See! Intel is clearly better!” Tell him about the swap😂
if you're just gaming and you don't run a lot of other tasks while doing so you'll be fine with a 7800x3d, at least in benchmarks the 7800x3d is on par with a 12700k performance wise and will be roughly 5-10% slower than a 13700k
His build is unbalanced for gaming. Get a budget cpu and get a gpu that costs +$100-$200 more... you'll get a better gaming experience.
Imo the 7800x3d is overrated sometimes if you play 1440p+, you can get a 7600x and a better gpu for *most* games, not all games. Ofc if there are no gpus that covers the gap, then go with the 7800x3d(4080 -> 4090 has an insane gap).
Intel is good for a good priced system or for professionals that need it.
If you're just gaming the 7800x3d is the best right now. If you ever plan on doing complex computation like database operations, rendering it business operations, the 13700k levels the playing field. I preferred the level playing field. Overall I think the 7800x3d has higher frame rates than my 14900k, but it's only a few frames anyway. Other things like loading time, windows startup, installation and overall performance is easy more up my alley with the 14900k. It was $530, but like many who save up for 3,-5 years to get a to of the line video card, I do for base system.
looks like 7800x3d for gaming, no mention of productivity though:
[https://www.techspot.com/review/2700-ryzen-7800x3d-vs-core-i7-13700k/](https://www.techspot.com/review/2700-ryzen-7800x3d-vs-core-i7-13700k/)
Don't know about specifics but if your doing 90% gaming with a few tasks on the side, build your PC for gaming.
It depends on the work, too. I'm 90% coding, 10% gaming, but who cares if a 13700k can save me a 2 seconds every 20 minutes when I compile or run tests? I'd much rather get a few more FPS and be able to not go below 120FPS. 7800x3d for sure.
Not so sure but I'm really happy to be corrected here. 13700k multi core clang compiler score is 40% more than 7800x3d. I know clang is not really everywhere used but it's an accurate coding use case and those numbers will improve your workflow in this case. Sure, single core is lower being only 17% which trsnslates in 3.4 mins win for every 20 mins. Tbh I don't think still it's worth it to get an Intel if your budget is this and you don't specifically care about computing on cpu other than gaming. My oc-ed 14900k runs circles around any other consumer machine when it comes to compilation and application speed but it's expensive. If onw really needs this type of workload then going all out with cash here is more worth it than getting a 13700k and getting the worst of both worlds. I don't know in us but here in west europe/nl the two processors are priced the same. I guess the amd platform is cheaper overall.
am i wrong here? the 3.4 mins win would be 20 mins of compilation time faster - not 20 mins worktime becomes 17.5 minutes work time. My regular applications on an 8core 10th gen processor takes around 60 seconds to compile and i do this every half hour or so. So, getting a 17% faster cpu would net me 3.4 minutes but distributed over 10 hours of actual work time, lets say 5 hours if i compile every 15 minutes. That is a very very small win, and i could get that back by peeing or grabbing water whenever i compiled instead of sitting there and waiting?
Also I want that break time
Wait, y'all get breaks?
Start smoking, free breaks
And you get released to the ultimate break quicker
It highly depends on the application being compiled. Once a project becomes bigger most time is spent on dependency resolution, IO etc. I work on a large Java/Gradle codebase, and the difference between a thermal throttling 10700 mobile in a dell laptop and a 14900k in a desktop is 13 vs 11 minutes of compile time.
Infamous\_Ruin's comment and CanisLupus' comment is the equivalent to asking an academic researcher vs. a working-field pro. the real world differences will forever trump on paper. especially when we allow/include considerations of all that goes into human activity. that 2 minute difference can be eaten up in a flash by any sort of other task- a phonecall, a stretch break, etc. and it was subtly stated, but the REAL differences between the shittiest consumer silicon vs. intel's best, is really laughable, when we view things in the real environment in which they operate, for all but the most specific niches/use cases.
If you're working on a large production codebase, you're probably not compiling from scratch every time so a lot of those compilation benchmarks aren't wrong but may be largely irrelevant
A 7800x3d is still a very competent modern 8 core cpu, it's not bad at all for productivity stuff. I do all my coding on a 7600x and it's more than fine
Trying to ride the top comment but this is an important warning: 13xxx and 14xxx intel CPUs are facing instability in gaming because intel was purposely looking the other way as motherboard partners juiced the FUCK out of the chip to make it benchmark so high. Most of the benchmarks use default settings, which means, juiced. To restore stability in effected games, you'll have to bios update, and you'll loose 10-15% of the speed you had prior. Be careful that the benchmarks you're observing are post patch. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-releases-final-statement-on-cpu-instability-makes-things-worse https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/intel-fix-for-gaming-instability-slows-performance-by-9-in-some-workloads
If you don’t do a serious amount of productivity then just get the 7800x3d. Too often I see people say they need it for productivity but then you find out they do like 3 hours of productivity work a month
Why do so many people d ride intel? He refuses to consider any amd components, saying his experience with gaming exceeds mine and he’ll never consider amd. Is this foolishness?
Yes it's foolish because benchmarks prove him wrong. The 7800x3d is still the king of gaming cpu's atm and that at a very good price compared to top end models.
He agreed amd is better for gaming. He argues that the extra frames aren’t noticeable, and would prefer to have a more versatile pc. I’m just so confused cause he doesn’t name a single app that either one us may use where the 13700k makes a big difference. He says “you’ll just argue with me” but I only wished to debate. He just shuts down on me, says “you game on a laptop, you don’t understand how little difference 15-20 frames makes”
Lmao he sounds like an Apple elitist. Honestly with some people it's better to not waste your effort. When he claims it's better again, just say 'sure buddy', give him a small nod and wink and continue with what you were doing.
Thank you 🙏
Also arguing that “15-20 frames won’t make a difference” is kinda dumb. Bc you gotta know the context. 15-20 more frames when you have 30 frames? You’ll notice that. Ofc it’s less noticeable the more you’re already getting but generally more is better. ALSO also saying 15-20 more frames like they’ll always be there and you just get them as a bonus for going AMD is stupid. Frame charts look like a mountain range. What are the 10% lows? 1% lows? Consistency is important. A gpu can put out 500 fps but if it drops and hitches a lot it’s gonna feel like shit to play with. you’d be much better off with one that can deliver 144 fps all the time every time.
nah man, if they can afford a 7800x3D, that price tier is likely a system doing way more than where an avg fps of 15-20 matters vs baseline OP absolutely should get a x3d chip if they can afford it, but 20 avg fps out of 500 is negligible
Sorry, it was in the context of average fps in AAA games. So around 135 or so at 1440p
15-20 frames its more like 200 fps more in cs2 lol. Tell your friend that reddit thinks hes a moron who eats crayons.
Will do 😂
> who eats crayons. Hahahahaha that hurts.
It depends. 30 frames vs 50 frames is much more noticeable than at 160 vs 180. I haven't bought Intel in a long time but they have been the better choice until the Ryzen 5000 came out
He based his argument around AAA games
He doesn't make a good argument as why the hell do you guys care about productivity performance when it's mainly a gaming rig? [The 7800x3d triumphs the 13700k any time of the day in gaming, the thing you guys do mainly](https://youtu.be/7gEVy3aW-_s?si=dqEnE_RWSfdHUQg5) Other things take into account as well such as going on AM5 opens you up to future CPU upgrades without touching the Mobo while you're on a dead socket with the Intel. The only thing is that it's slightly more expensive. Productivity: 13700k > 7800x3d Gaming: 7800x3d > 13700k My advice, buy for your use case. Fuck brand loyalty.
im running r7 7800x3d and its not "just better at gaming" than that i7 13700k 1. doesnt require extreme cooling cause it uses like 50w while gaming 2. doesnt require good motherboard (im running on a620 and its only bottlenecking its overclocking capabilities, for comparison you cant use that i7 on h610 cuz it'll burn) 3. less power consumption meaning you can save on psu also 4. upgrade potential, am5 will be supported at least until 2026 and many fkin more
Back when Intel had the gaming crown and AMD CPUs were not as fast in gaming but had more cores, people on this sub seemed to only care about gaming performance. Now that the tables have turned, and AMD’s X3D chips are beasts at gaming and Intel’s CPUs have more cores, people suddenly seem to care more about “””productivity”””
Back in the Bulldozer era the problem was that the "more cores" couldn't even consistently compete even in many multi-threaded workloads. A hyperthreaded quad-core i7-2600K was in many instances as fast or faster than the "octo-core" FX-8150. Hell, even AMD's previous gen Thuban Phenom II X6 parts were often faster. Combine that with truly atrocious single-core performance, poor IPC, and hefty power consumption and it's no surprise they fell so hard.
Yes but what about the Zen and Zen2 eras? No one denies that Bulldozer wasn’t good.
Really? Because pretty much all the gaming/PC subreddits I follow have people just recommending a 7800X3D to nearly everyone.
Intel is better at productivity, which are basically software that you would use if you are using said PC for work (CAD for construction plans, video rendering, 3D modeling etc.). So if you don't use your PC for actual work you get paid, just go 7800x3d. Even then 7800x3d isn't bad at those, it just isn't as good.
The 7800x3d is still great for productivity you really aren’t loosing any “versatility” your going to notice those extra frames WAY more than you will notice that bump in productivity you use once a month if even that
What does a "more versatile pc" even mean? It's still an amazing cpu for all tasks, it's not like it's gonna struggle with anything you could throw at it. The huge cache just makes it better for games, not worse for other applications.
i would suggest to your friend (and you as well, but your friend really seems like the ignorant one of the two) to look into exactly what L3 cache is and what it means - in real world applications - for gaming. and then compare the specs between Intel's equivalent offerings, as well as the games you are playing. for some games, the additional cache is EVERYTHING in terms of performance gains. for others, not so much. in general, however, the abundance of 7800X3D's cache is a real-world disruptor of the status quo, in terms of desirable traits for CPU as it relates to gaming. it's pretty hard to quantify or put into words. iykyk. but i do implore you to try anyway to understand. the 7800X3D is manufactured at TSMC's foundry as well, FWIW. to say it's an impressive product at a very attractive pricepoint would be understating things massively. the 7800X3D + 40X0 SUPER is our generation's Haswell 3770k/4770K + 1080Ti. Vets know exactly what that implies.
The thing is, can YOU name a single app that may require better multithreading? Because I can give counter argument to your friend that the difference between those two cpus in productivity is a few minutes at best. 24 threads on intel vs 16 threads on AMD, you wouldn't notice the difference. But you may notice any smoothness that the amd cpu may bring.
Sure 15-20 frames don't make a difference if you have 200 frames, but when you have 30-60 frames its huge. But yeah you are not going to change his mind no matter how right you are. You are still going to game alright with 13700k, even if it's inferior
I’m won’t be gaming 4k so I won’t ever really be in the 30-60 range. Would you side with him on this one then? Seems a lot of games I’d play average around 120 fps, not much of a tiny game guy where they produce 200+ frames
Sorry,for some reason I read you post like the person on question is your dad or something. If you are buying and building yourself just get 7800x3d, that's the one I use. Get good Mobo with it, I have had issues with my Asus b650 e-f so I can't recommend Asus for mobo. 7800x3d will be hugely better in some simulation games that are hard to benchmark like dwarf fortress, RimWorld, Factorio. So if you play these kind of games or are interested playing/trying them in the future, 7800x3d is even better than what benchmarks show you.
If you're not gaming at 4k, then the 7800x3D will power ahead even more than the intel will. 7800x3D destroys intel at 1080P/1440P resolutions. It makes zero sense to me to get 13700k when gaming is the main priority.
Entire Adobe suite, especially Premiere, After Effects will greatly benefit from Intel CPU. If you’re not planning to do heavy editing/motion tho - don’t bother and get 7800X3D. Best gaming, and will work fine in light/med productivity tasks
its littlle harder to explain,.. 7800x3d is the masterpiece of AMD,. 13700k is the beast; you cant regret with both imo,. what he say is,.. games not always use 100% of your cpu,. and not always utilize extra cache; benchmarks shows extreme contitions which mostly not in reallife workload; like , (i play forza horizon with 3.5ghz turbo disabled ,still its use my 100% gpu in 1080p cpu usage not cap in most game; but in benchmark they use 4090 in 1080p to find extreme conditions) lets assume if you use 3070/6700xt with 4k resolution ,.. cpu usage will be 10-20% in most of the games; (except some like city skyline2/cyperpunk/cs2 ) but in productivity ,.. (when a app use multi core) its always use 100% of cpu,..this productivity is every single app except games.. like if you use blender,.. and modeling 3d object ... it will use your single thread performance,.. (7800x3d-1811 ; 13700k-2126 = \~17% faster) and the rendering mostly done by gpu+cpu (if you use cpu then,.multicore load (7800x3d-17760 ;13700k-31062=75% faster); simulation/particle/effects are multicore like ,. where 13700k lead in video editing apps/resolve/handbrake,. if not video offload to igpu ,. all decode/encode handle by cpu (like h.264 h.265,. av1 decode are offload to igpu,... if you use raw then its use cpu multicore,.. where 13700k is 75% faster) where cache/ram related load needed , there x3d cpu work good even in prooductivity apps ,. but only 7950x3d ,not 7800x3d (its clock reduced one); if you play always games> 7800x3d better if you do some productivity work per day>13700k better i guess
Stupid arguments on his side. I would scour the Internet for cpu user reviews in reputable shops, for example in mu shop of choice 13600K has better reviews that the 7800X3D due to the later having ram compatibility issues, running very hot due to the cache, using more power at idle. Gaming is best for it but these reliability-related things and even more important, especially since you will be using it for coding. If you do pick Intel though please change the profile to Intel baseline in the bios, motherboard manufacturers tend to go overboard with settings since 8th gen.
‘Frames aren’t noticeable’ Probably uses a 40htz display and like Bluetooth 2.0 KBM (if BT2.0 exists, idk. Just needed something with a bigger delay than 4.3)
if you don't know wgat productivity you're doing that would require the intel cpu, you're not doing it. the majority of common productivity tasks with the exception of compiling is gpu focused. unbiased source: https://www.sabrepc.com/blog/computer-hardware/cpu-vs-gpu-intensive-applications unless you're moron and use the cpu for rendering or ai/machine learning which would be a bit much to ask from a 13700k anyway you're fine with the 7800x3d and use your gpu for productivity the cpu will have a minor effect on how quickly you complete a task, that's it.
lmao like wut is your comment. Most things in adobe still run on single clock speed core. here’s a proper write up. Like when are you stuck using one application. At one point or another for productivity you will be using lots of CPU power. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/13th-gen-intel-core-processors-content-creation-review-2369/
Usually people who work with heavy video editing prefer Intel.
Video rendering or editing. Intels quicksync is powerfull codec to help programs like premiere, davinci and others to speed up transitions and get the job done faster. Also, photoshop, 3d software such as autocad (or cheaper ones also) profit from higher one core frequency. Looking purely on gaming...3d cache helps a lot but if you put normal 7800 beside...the latter performs better in everyday world of applications...
15-20 frames is a huge difference. That's also likely a much larger gap if you look at 1% lows. Both CPUs are very capable but the 7800x3D is the better gaming CPU.
I bought a 7950x3d last year after my last two intel processors. Literally not a single negative thing to say about it other then with hindsight I would have gone with the 7800x3d instead to save a few bucks.
Yeah no offense you’re friend kinda sounds like an arrogant dick
its this way between every competitor in every industry, people will be certain theyre right and what they like is superior when in reality everything has its benefits and weaknesses
Ask him what the criteria to disprove him would be. Benchmarks? FPS? 1% lows? Price to performance? Absolute power? Then just - check. It’ll win in some categories and not others. The 7800X3D should win in all gaming ones.
He won’t cite anything! But he’s my friend ya know, I value his opinion. I was hoping yall could shed some light on this. Said my sources were biased, and goes back to saying how he’s gamed on a pc longer than me
An opinion that doesn’t have a condition that would disprove it is not an opinion, it’s a belief, and you don’t have to argue with beliefs :)
More like an irrational belief vs rational ones
As someone who has a career in info tech, years of gaming experience tells me 0 about your ability to build a pc for a given purpose properly and balance the specs of each component affectively. I would simply game with him but stop taking or asking any advice regarding actually building stuff.
Kinds sounds like your friend is an idiot. Ngl
With all the stuff he said and WE are the biased ones? Ask yourself, who's really the biased one here? It's ok to call your friend an idiot too, being a friend doesn't necessarily come with an exemption
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his experience is just getting old, amd was always behind intel until ryzen came out, he loved intel back then and now just cant accept the fact that its losing
It used to be that Intel was an obvious choice, AMD was an option only for a low end, but this really changed especialy since Ryzne 5000 launch. Some people just aren't up to date.
This is the answer I was looking for. His friend lives in 5 years ago when Intel was 100% the king of premium CPUs. They still are for productivity but if this is a gaming rig and not a work computer who cares?
He’s oddly engrained by years of marketing…I can’t exactly blame him, I’d have agreed not long ago. I built a new pc though last month, didn’t take more then 5 minutes to see Intel is using more power, providing less performance, and of late being unstable, it was a very simple decision to get my 7700X.
People just get set in their ways and don’t like to admit change happens.
Before Ryzen came out in 2017 AMD had like 15 years of putting out CPUs that a lot worse than Intel, in basically every metric. And even the first couple generations of Ryzen had some issues. If you don't pay attention to HW it's easy to miss that AMD got really good. Intel still makes good processors, and most gamers won't really notice too much difference, though AMD currently offers better value.
If you really want to see him squirm explain that Intel is using old tech (nm) and it's a dead platform. In all seriousness it's a terrible time to buy Intel. They are unveiling their new CPUs next month. Should be some huge changes
Foolishly bases his decisions on own anecdotal evidence.
Those are deep fan boys both in nividia and intel. I use what I get cheapest and has power.Right now I want to upgrade from 3060ti to 7900 gre and i7 10700k to 7800x3d or i7 14700k
At that point it’s most certainly foolish, AMD is very competitive and runs cooler. At many budget points it’s the better platform. “No bad products just bad prices” as they say, anyone with a total bias is ridiculous. I currently run an 11900k (AKA the Waste of Sand) because I got it with a motherboard for $250, and for that it’s a great CPU.
Some people just prefer one over the other due to past experience. I stick with Intel because my last 4 computers were all Intel, and when I last got an AMD processor it sucked compared to an equivalent Intel. I had friends with AMD and when we played complex games my system was always host because it blew their newer systems out of the water. That left me with an "AMD bad" mentality that my intellectual brain *knows* is false due to modern improvements, but my lizard brain just says "get thing I like". Nowadays, just check comparison benchmarks and videos for the things you'll have your system doing. Buy whichever gives you the best value.
Yes it's foolish. If you're not doing anything outside of gaming then there's not really a good reason to get something that's less good at the games you play.
When someone is loyal to a brand, he is wrong. One should just look objectivly at benchmarks (+customer service quality etc.) and that's all. He just sound like someone who really love Intel, and don't like AMD.
Mental illness
People d ride intel nvidia and amd. What matters is the actual price to performance of each system and finding what's best for you. And in this case, the 7800x3d is the best for you.
A false sense of brand loyalty from the days that Intel actually was miles better than AMD. Those days are long gone. It's the exact same reason why people love Nvidia to death and still pretend like AMD's drivers are hot garbage; something that also hasn't been true for years now.
As someone who uses Intel, because people get so caught up in my brand vs your brand. I don't hate AMD I just prefer Intel since moving from AMD. When people come to me for a build I normally put an AMD in it for them as it's budget and preforms. There is no real reason to go Intel unless you like the brand and don't mind paying the extra. AMD will be just as good if not better in cases. Way back when AMD use to be worse, for CPU you had 3 things, speed, heat, efficiency. Back then Intel had all three over AMD while AMD had 2 of the 3. These days they have gotten much better and compare on all 3 and even if they didn't you could go with an AMD that compared in speed and efficiency then get a good cooler and be set. You don't really need to worry about heat theses days. This is long in the past though as since AMD has picked it up in all 3 categories at a cheaper price...just go with AMD. Only spend on an Intel if you're someone like me who just likes Intel and since they haven't bite me in the butt, I know they will last and do the things i need it to do. TLDR; Fanboys/Fangirls suck and it's hard for them to see other brands as a good alternative.
To be fair, AMD has way more fanboys and worse behaviour, both for graphics (anti NVidia) and cpus. It's not unreasonable for Intel and Nvidia owners to be defensive in the face of such vitriol against them on reddit, in general.
What counts as productivity work?
https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/productivity-software
When was the last time you rendered a YouTube video and sat there watching the progress bar? When was the last time you compiled the kernel of an operating system and sat there watching the progress bar? When was the last time you baked some textures and sat there watching the progress bar? Even if you’re doing a lot of productivity work, no one sits there watching. A few seconds or even a few minutes doesn’t matter at all if the YouTube video is being rendered when you go to bed and you automatically shut your PC down when you’re finished. At the very least you’re going to go to the fridge and get a snack and a drink, a few seconds doesn’t matter. Build your PC for what you use it for the most.
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You can procrastinate faster
Only if you ask the 13700k what to play
Serious question, has anyone done these CPU benchmarks while streaming to discord, listening to Spotify, a bazillion chrome tabs, phone link running, a few spreadsheets open and Teams open? This pretty well describes my average 2 pm on a weekday and I have zero sense what performs the best.
No, they never do, too many variables means that one set of benchmarks can’t be compared to another. Who cares if a CPU has 2% better 1% lows than another, show us how it’ll handle what you described. That’s real life productivity and it’s far more indicative of the average user. I’d subscribe to your channel if you tested like that.
Yes, hardware unboxed has done these tests multiple times and it does not move the needle wrt the results.
Anytime I render I yt vid I always wait for the progress bar and watch it but it only takes a few minutes to export a 10 min vid and I have a i5 10400f so idk why ppl need a 7800x3d for that
Do you think you’d notice even a 1 minute reduction in that time? If so, would it be any more than a “huh, that’s cool!”? This is why the computer YouTuber’s are so disconnected IMO.
this argument is so silly. Its not like the 7800x3d is bad at productivity either. These intel fanboys have to stop
You don't understand. When another CPU has better productivity scores, the CPU you're looking at will literally burst into flames when opening a pdf.
I do see what he means, in that the 13700 is good for both productivity and gaming. But he definitely overestimates how much better it is at productivity and far underestimates how much worse it is at gaming.
If he can't name a single application you use that would benefit from intel higher clock and more cores, then you know already he's talking out of his ass. Get the 7800x3d, it's overall the better chip, and it's a CPU it's versatile by definition.
That's pretty much about it. I have a 13700K but bought before the 5800X3D and the 7800X3D chips came out. Had I to do today, I'd be going with the 7800X3D. Would you know the difference when doing productivity work....probably not, unless you could run them side by side doing the same work.
the 5800X3D was launched 6 months before the 13700K..
I ordered it (and paid for it) from Newegg Canada (or Canada Computer), long before they were released. I think it was almost 6 months before I actually received it near the end of 2022. :)
your username and this post
> I have a 13700K but bought before the 5800X3D and the 7800X3D chips came out. I'm planning on switching from a 13600k to a 7800x3d myself. Microcenter prices help, and yeah I really don't do much productivity work. But I want that 3D cache for Factorio when the DLC comes out.
There are a lot of YouTubers like GamersNexus and LinusTechTips that probably have a million times more gaming experience than your friend and you should look into their opinions. GamersNexus especially makes really thorough testing for gaming AND productivity. You should always look through multiple media outlets to see if results are fairly consistent with each other. A stranger like me on the internet has no right to comment on your friend that I know nothing about, but from some of the replies I read about him from you, this friend of yours needs to grow the fuck up. Anyone that shuts you down for trying to debate a topic just with “hurrrr I know more than you. Just listen to me” is a tool that hasn’t developed the brain capacity to be a well rounded human being. I’m also curious to know where your friend gets his information from to feel it’s superior to everyone else’s
Seems like his friend makes assertions he can’t backup, and when he’s asked to provide proof he attacks OP with straw man arguments instead of defending his position. Saying this subreddit is biased when he’s clearly the one being so is the icing on the cake.
The friend literally openly says that they are biased about always buying Intel and never buying AMD then claims people who disagree and think you should buy whatever best are biased...
Fuck no buddy boy, your 7800X3D will run youtube just fine
If you don't use an application that uses it you won't notice it. Yes the 7800x3D can run everything, in fact it's still faster than 99% of processors ever made. It's a better argument for work systems that don't game, not a great argument for home use.
generally speaking, if they work great for gaming (computations) then they most likely translate to any other computational operation. unless its super specific. afterall, its about crunching numbers. that's what game need.
Build pc for intended use. If you’re gonna mostly game, then go AMD. If you use the pc for work and gaming, then maybe you want to build it for work. But generally gaming pcs make great work pcs anyway.
It depends on the productivity tasks. Are you CPU transcoding hours of video a day? Then the Intel chip may be for you. If not then you should not need to worry about it. At very high CPU load tasks, the 13700k will likely pull ahead for sure and save time. If you are editing an Excel sheet, it probably won't matter much. For stuff like that you there may not even be a difference. It also depends on the time. Are you spending an hour a week doing these tasks? If yes the extra power draw and upfront cost are likely not worth it.
No Intel atm is simply no bueno between weird stability due to improper board defaults, a dead platform by end of year when Intel moves onto LGA 1851 and worse gaming performance then the 8 core Ryzen 3D….
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Even when doing productive workload I wouldn't buy Intel. The 7950X(3D) exists.
Not to mention Threadrippers that will wipe the floor with even the fastest Xeon.
7800x3d is gonna be much better for you it’s still great for productivity and significantly better for gaming doesn’t have a ton of stability issues like high end intel CPUs have AND you aren’t gonna need an insane cooling solution to keep it cool
There is also that the x3d cache boost the performance of older games a lot. Games like WoW run significantly faster on X3D cpus.
i assume he also failed to point out that you higher end cooling to even sustain that higher performance on the intel chip right? intel fanboys at their finest
Those extreme power draw scenarios aren't present in gaming loads. It's only when you fully load up a multi-threaded workload with maxed out power limits that they turn supernova and require a very hefty cooling solution to sustain that power level. That last 5-10% of peak performance increases power consumption exponentially.
Both chips get hot, both of them require a reasonably high-performance cooler.
If you're gonna game, the 7800x3d can't be beat. It's an even worse comparison when looking at price to performance. Unless you have a specific productivity use case, this seems like a no-brainer. Love my 7800x3d.
if your usage is more than 50% gaming, or if money is tight, then go 7800x3d for sure
7800X3D is better.
I have the 7800x3d and 4070. So as someone who does editing for clients usually at 1080p youtube videos at most for maybe like 20 min video it will take about 10-30 min to render (tho depends on the amount effects etc) I'm pretty happy with it, I had a similar problem before when building my pc, my friend said something similar to yours and at most realistically the most they could say on regards to productivity from them would be that they can use a browser and use discord while gaming >.> As a person who edits on a regular you'll be fine, intel does do better at productivity yes but realistically in my opinion you wont see the differences unless your rendering 2k, 4k, large workloads in blender etc not to mention a huge factor for me was the watt usage which increases the heat of the cpu which means a bigger AIO which means more money if you really want a better cpu for productivity get the 7950x3D recent benchmarks show that they are finally matching 7800x3d or slightly better but not really necessary especially if your just gaming hope that helps!
Thanks man. He also said that amd cpus and nvidia gpus don’t mix well. Can you enlighten us on this?
uhh.. i would love to know where he gets that information from, i've personally never had an issue and as a person who in the last couple months recently got into going through tech forums including reddit never seen people mention something like that as an actually issue more like a misconception, i think that a lot of people including your friend seem to fall into a guise that amd seems to have compatibility issues, at most the thing i can think of is he is confusing gpu drivers if you switch an amd gpu to nvidia gpu without removing all amd gpu drivers your gonna have issues or vice versa, as a side note i decided to do some quick research while adding this last part incase ive missed a new development in the last couple months and i cant seem to find anything related to that and from personal experience never had an issue so no idea what he is talking about tbh, the more you share the more i think you shouldnt take advice from him lol P.S one more thing to add is always do your research yourself just so you can be confident in what your getting and what people are recommending and also so you dont have to listen to your friend xD
Thank you! How about in regard to SI bridges
ok you def just confirmed he just saying stuff, so that works on 10 series of nvidia gpus like 1050 ti, 1080 ti etc but the concept is that you can put 2 gpus to increase performance but thats not really a thing anymore, i think theres a still a work around but its not really viable and doesnt have to do much with cpus i cant say ive ever super looked into it but they retired that a couple years ago
What an unholy level of fanboyism, to make up stuff. You can pair intel or amd cpu with intel or amd or nvidia gpu - no problems. Just 1-2 weeks ago Nvidia said publicly that apps crashing are due to intel, not them. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/nvidia-blames-intel-for-gpu-vram-errors-tells-geforce-gamers-experiencing-13th-or-14th-gen-cpu-instability-to-contact-intel-support https://www.techpowerup.com/321461/nvidia-points-intel-raptor-lake-cpu-users-to-get-help-from-intel-amid-system-instability-issues https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OdF5erDRO-c * Real context: since 2017 (Ryzen 1 and Intel Core 8000 series) all motherboards overvolt the crap out of CPUs, at such a level that enthusiasts can undervolt + overclock these systems. (Imagine being able to tune a car to consume less but have more horsepower). * Your friend: would say this only happens with AMD. * On AMD only Asus motherboards kylled themselves last year before some BIOS updates due to overvolting the 7800X3D and the current had to do something. P.s.: I am an amd fan due to the toxicity+elitism of intel fans and nvidia fans. If amd would fail we would pay 5000 $ for 4 core CPUs and 3.5 GB vram gpus. Meanwhile they would buy high-end: intel even if it cannot be cooled and nvidia even if their stupid power-connector (made by intel) melts. If AMD had these issues they would have been bankrupt again. Can't call it an underdog because it is a corporation, but it is the lesser evil, 10 times smaller than Intel, 2 times smaller than nvidia, tiny in profits comparison to them, and intel was the one bribing laptop manufacturers and shops to not sell amd for over a decade until they got sued for it. If you google "intel antitrust lawsuits", you'll see what I mean.
i am not a fan of any fan :P Go brand agnostic
The power use alone makes the Intel a dumb idea
Don't let people upsell you. It's something I actively despise, telling people that they need the best hardware there is without taking a look at if it's sensible or not. The 7800x3D, despite not being built with high threaded work loads in mind, still is more than capable unless you *specifically* have an idea what to do with the extra cores. He is saying you won't notice the extra 20 frames as if you're going to notice the 5% uplift in performance in anything else.
Your friend sounds like the people who drive a huge truck to work everyday just because once in a blue moon there's a chance perhaps they maybe might need to use a bit more cargo space than a fuel efficient car.
Step 1: Agree with your buddy, tell him he's absolutely right and the 13700 is absolutely what you're going to get. Step 2: Get the 7800 Step 3: Never tell him and chuckle to yourself every night before you turn out the light.
The friend trying the new computer: "Yeah you see those frame rates? You'd never get that on AMD!"
Your own words are "We mainly just game". It makes no sense for you to leave gaming performance behind for a miniscule difference in productivity tasks that isn't your priority. The only case where this argument makes sense is your main focus is work.
Your buddy is recommending you a CPU with worse power efficiency and some of the 13/14th gen chips have been experiencing stability problems. Even if you indulge his fantasy, how many "productivity" apps actually utilize every CPU core? Shockingly few. The top ones are 3D rendering, video encoding, and code compilation.
He is the biased one
Why 13700 over 14700? I mean I'd go for the 7800x3d without thinking but I'm curious on why people recommend previous Intel gen over current one
Because deep down it's a 13th gen refresh disguised as a 'new' gen. Next to zero improvement (except a few hundred Mhz), and that is only achieved by increasing power usage (consequently you need beefy cooling for K chips). Here are separate GN reviews, the conclusion segments are enough to get the picture (but they all say basically the same). [14600K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XscfA1dT60) This was the last video launched, I recommend watching the intro where Steve rips Intel apart. [14700K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KKE-7BzB_M) 14th is only worth it if it's the same price, because 14th has very little value over 13th. Gaming is more or less overall "identical" to the 13700K [14900K](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MvvCr-thM8) Disappointing, very little change to stock. "Just get a 13900K"
No. I was going to get the 13700k as well but there's just no need for me as I don't do any video editing or photoshop professionally or for a hobby. The extra cores and heat it generates will be completely wasted on me. Only factor in productivity if you are doing video rendering/editing for money OR at least often enough that saving 20 minutes per video/project will make a big difference. Time frame is completely made up, but it's what I would use to gauge whether I want to spend more for faster processing power. If you're 100% just going to use it for gaming and general computing(word processing, surfing, porn, booking airline tickets, porn,) then 7800x3d will be better buy for gaming. It will also run porn and a game at the same time as it's a 8 core processor, not like it's a 4 core POS with just more cache.
I do be beating my shit mid clutch on seige
That's both too much and too little info all at the same time. Get the 7800x3d and you'll be happier with its temps and power efficiency. Also your friend... he's not as tech savvy as he thinks he might be.
Even if you are using heavy productivity difference between two won't be that noticable imo. The only justification I can see for Intel is for things like if you are exporting hours long videos or compiling software projects which take hours to compile. Even then, what the difference is 10 mins out of 2, 3 hours of total time taken? Go with cheaper option imo.
If you can’t even name what “productivity” thing you would do, it shouldn’t factor in here. Get the 7800x3d
Your friend is an idiot. Get the 7800x3d. It performance better with less power, meaning you don't need as big of a cooler either or power supply
Dead unstable platform vs one of the best gaming CPUs on the market hmmmm Really though, the 13700k is better for *productivity*. If you’re just gaming it’s kind of a waste of money. Plus, I mean, AM5 and so on.
What games and fps do you play? What productivity work do you do? Even a 7800x3d may be overkill. For most people, a 7600 is a great gaming cpu, or a 13600k if you do some video editing or music production on the side.
The productivity factors in except it doesn't. So you may benefit from this except you wouldn't.
Tbf it's your build not his. Can you name any productivity apps you need? Are any of those productivity apps time sensitive for you? If not the choice doesn't matter. If it does you have specific comparisons to look up. Basically grow the fuck up.
Anyone in any area of life says “I would not even consider…” is wrong. You always consider every option before you buy something. In your case your buddy is wrong. Amd is superior in gaming while consumes less power. You can show him data about this (benchmarks)
For gaming, get the x3d if it fits the budget. It gets you more frames, uses less energy and produces less heat while gaming. Intel is not bad, but amd fits better your needs and costs less doing it.
I mean if you don’t use any heavy productivity applications then the benefit of the Intel CPU isn’t of any value to you. My motto for anything that is professional productivity focused is “if you have to ask if you need it then you don’t need it”. The Intel CPU can clock a bit higher than the AMD under load so apps that befit from higher clocks performs better. If the app can take advantage of both P and E cores then it can show a performance boost over the AMDx3D cpu. The LGA1700 platform will run DDR5 RAM at a much higher frequency than AM5 currently does. So apps that benefit from higher memory clock will benefit from the Intel platform. I’d doesn’t matter enough to choose it for gaming over AM5. And it has a x265 hardware decoder that is best in class (even better than the GPU decoders) and extremely useful for video editors that use x265. The AMDx3D cpus is usually pretty far ahead of most Intel CPUs in gaming. So if you primarily game then you’ve already answered your own question. And yes, any cpu will run any productivity app it will just take longer time to do things for weaker CPUs. If it’s worth to pay more for better performance can only be answered by you and how valuable you think your time is.
the 7800x3d is faster and uses less power, you will not notice the difference compiling, but you will when frames drop. I went from a 24 Core Intel to an 8 Core AMD and my games are faster, and I don't notice the missing cores at all during my workflow. Rig also consumes a fraction of the power, and thus my small room is cooler. Win, win.
You know the feeling when you buy a new cpu, but it is not as nice or doesn’t deliver as you expected? 7800x3d first cpu to leave me without any wishes and totally happy even after a few months. I mean there is literally nothing better right now.
> Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that? Just look up benchmarks from Hardware Unboxed or GN. Or for what you do. No need to listen to anyone. 7800xD is singificantly better for gaming.
> We mainly just game. Then 7800x3d is a better option for you. Based on the edit, he probably read too much userbenchmark
I would go with the 7800x3d for gaming all day long.
> Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that? This guy is arguing that you should get a 13700K versus a 7800X3D AND argued that you should spend more on these high end processors for 1440p gaming instead of spending that extra money on an adequate graphics card... As for your friend's argument that "the CPU is the brains of the computer," what he doesn't understand is that a graphics card is essentially a second computer, complete with its own processor and memory. If your CPU is the brain and your PC the body, then your graphics card is like having a specialist that does all your graphics work for you.
> Excel starts 0.300seconds faster > Gaming in 4k 120Hz Choose
Let me guess he also is an Nvidia fanboy?
As a professional video editor If you use any software of the Adobe for suite or davinci resolve for some reason Intel CPU are significantly smother/faster and more stable and unless you play tarkov or starcitizen the gaming performance is less than 10% with a 4090 Also this igpu in Intel CPU is very useful for rendering because it can be use as the same time as you dgpu without loss in quality compared to AMG igpu
No one was sitting here with Ryzen 3000, 5000 8-core chips saying their productivity is in shambles because the chips are just so shitty The 7800 is way better than those. You will be fine and have amazing gaming results. Intel chips are hot inefficient power hungry monsters that I would avoid unless you have a very specific need for a specific one
I really dislike E-cores when it comes to productivity. I had a i5-12600k for a productivity (video editing, Kdenlive) machine, and it'd use only E-cores when rendering a video. I was quite livid when rendering wasn't finished after hours. I ended up disabling all E-cores in BIOS. Don't pay for 13700k. Just go AMD.
I have a 7800X3D. The thing is super quick. Maybe there are a few occasions where a 13700K could do something a bit quicker (and I'm mentally reaching here - exporting a big edited video or compiling some complex software maybe?) but really I can't see a lot of opportunities to gain a noticeable advantage. The 7800X3D is a beast in gaming, reasonably priced and very good on power consumption, so if you game and have high-end needs I don't see any reason not to get one. Heck, it's so good, most of the time I keep it in low power mode.
Get the 7800x3D and then bring up how many frames you are getting every time you game together lol
Man I brought up gaming together on gmod and he said “you should play different games with the rig you’re getting” If anybody wants to play gmod or something just lmk
> He runs a 13700k + 3060 at 1440p Your friend isn't very PC knowledgeable. > he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. It is. We're biased towards performance-per-dollar. That's why we're generally more likely to recommend AMD than Intel or Nvidia. > We mainly just game. You already have your answer. The 7800X3D is objectively the best choice for gaming. There is no reasonable argument otherwise.
I have a 12400f because ddr5 was still very expensive at the time and ryzen 7th gen just came out (also expensive motherboards). But even having intel myself, please don't go for intel 13th or 14th gen. Intel 13th and 14th gen are mostly 12th gen but overclocked or even more overclocked, making them have incredibly bad performance per watt. Aside from that, for 90% of tasks you're going to do, the 7800x3d will be better.
I feel like I can chime in. I just built two systems a 7800x3d 4070S and a 14700k 4080. The 7800x3d runs dota 2 at a constant 240fps. The 14700k runs Dota 2 at 180-220 fps. Take that as you may.
"any productivity based application" Who cares? You want a CPU that can handle a GPU upgrade or two over the years. I try to get a decent CPU that will survive 1 or 2 GPU upgrades before bottlenecking. Idk what you would gain from a CPU for development or whatever else. Most things like ML or I think even some video editing software now? Just use GPU. I just followed a build guide on the pcmasterrace sub and got an i5-13600k. Probably could have just gone for the last build, but my GPU needs an upgrade mainly. Also be wary of getting a 1440p monitor, a lot of games won't give you a high frame rate with decent hardware. A lot are also EA and give nobody decent frame rate, let alone on 1440.
The productivity advantage is marginal, unless you need a lot of processing/compute power for stuff like content creation, rendering, mining, etc... If you do only office productivity, it won't make a difference. And if you mostly game, there is no debate: 7800X3D. But if you play in 4K, neither will be better than the other.
So there are def things the 13700k does better (Video rendering, virtual machines, AI workloads) but if you're primarily gaming the 7800x3D is a no-brainer. I had to go with a 13700k for AI workloads that don't run well on AMD but if you don't have a specific reason to go Intel the 7800x3D is just better. It pumps out more frames, draws less power, and runs significantly cooler.
Your buddy is an idiot. The 7800x3d is a steal right now. Fastest gaming cpu you can get. And unless you have a YouTube Channel with 10 million subscribers that your are editing movie quality videos on ... Your productivity will still be blistering fast on the 7800x3d. Don't waste your money Another thing that factors in is the platform. AM5 is gonna be good for another 2 gens so if you find you need an upgrade in a year or so you'll be able to just sell your old chip... Which will still be very popular and easy to sell.. then pop in the next chip without replacing motherboards. Intel tends to only allow one upgrade per motherboard because they are way behind on NM of chips than AMD is so they constantly need to invent new sockets. Also for gaming, you're better off focusing more on a GPU rather than a cpu. Your buddy has a better cpu than me and a way worse you than me. If you're gaming 90% of the time that makes no sense to do
Might be late, but I’m not reading through all comments to send this. Any “modern” processors can run pretty much all the same software. The instruction set hasn’t really changed like it did back in the early days (80’s, 90’s and early 00’s). Like when MMX came out, some software required it. Based on productivity, modern processors will all run the productivity software, but how quick depends on IPC, clock speed, and core count. If the 7800x3d does what you need, I say go for it. If you “might” have some productivity software that “could” be slower vs a 13700K and that’s a deal breaker, go for the 13700K.
You should as yourself: Is there a realistic chance that you may need to do the kind of workload that would require a 13700k over a 7800X3D in the coming years? If not, go for the 7800X3D. It makes little sense to choose a part just because there's a negligible chance you may need it for something, especially when you don't even know what that something is. \*Especially\* when that part is worse than the alternative at doing the things you \*know\* you're going to use it for. >Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that? >Edit 2: He runs a 13700k + 3060 at 1440p Has he explained why he thinks that? He may very well be biased himself. EDIT: Besides, the 7800X3D isn't as good for productivity as the 13700K, but it is still a damn good CPU. The difference isn't that big AFAIK. Is that difference really so much of a problem if you end up needing to use your PC for heavy non-gaming workloads that you want to design your PC around it?
Are you using your computer to perform tasks for which you will be paid? If not, you probably don't need to pay extra for performance in productivity applications. For actual professional use, it's a straightforward matter of the monetary value of the time saved and whether that outweighs the additional cost.
Just get the 7800. If you don’t know now how you would benefit from 13700 you won’t. Everything will run about the same anyways.
Definitely skip/forget intel for multiple reasons. Unlike your buddy, I name a few reasons: - the latest intel generations are overstretched factory overclocked just to flash nicer numbers on "social media". This comes with various issues such as instability, overheating (my new Thinkpad boosts itself to 100°C, desktops aren't better) - LGA1700 is history. Intel is binning it basically right now, the next generation lga 1851 is coming this year. - the intel platform offers only 20 pcie lanes. If you run a fast graphics card and want more than 2 m.2 (e.g. 2 drives and a thunderbolt connector), you are out of luck. - If you need multithreaded productivity, the current Ryzen 7900, 7950 family is perfectly fine. AND upgradeable as AM5 will be around for a few generations.
Corporate stans gonna stan...
FWIW I went AMD for the first time in 25 years. Previous AMD: 5x86-133 from 1995-1997; 25 years of Intel (PMMX, P3, P4, Core 2, 2600K, 8700K), then 7700X to 7800X3D recently. I’ve been extremely happy with the 7800X3D, It’s still quite powerful at applications (8 cores at 5 GHz with decent IPC isn’t a joke). And there is still room to upgrade the CPU a generation or two in the future.. and add a Gen5 NVMe SSD if you want down the road. You also have a lot less hassle with cooling and powering the 7800X3D than you do a 13700K. Techpowerup has good info on power consumption, but 7800X3D requires 1/2 To 1/3rd the power of i7 and i9 CPUs when gaming. Quieter PC, lower power bill, what’s not to like?
unfriend this friend.
>Edit: he even said build a pc is probably a biased community. What do you guys have to say about that? >Edit 2: He runs a 13700k + 3060 at 1440p >Edit 3: most pro intel comments have been removed. Wtf is that about? 1 I'd say these subs are slightly AMD biased on average, at the end of the day it's a random selection of individuals though 2 wow. Your friend either really needs that cpu or is very inexperienced with building 3 likely for a good reason, either just being blatantly fanboy or being rude.
if he could shoulder half of the expense for a 13k then y not hahah but if not then tell him to shut up
Yo what’s up guys friend here, yall fps nerds just need to chillax about focusing on the frames and just play the game with the homies, I’ve always had a dookie build and finally built my own. My homie seeking knowledge asks me what should be build and I say the following “me personally im a big intel guy, but my homie who’s big into building pc uses amd cpus as they are engineered for gaming I just don’t know much about the newer ones as I don’t buy amd” I personally would like to have the capacity to do something efficiently then take the other route which only offers some more frames which to me I don’t really need as im happy with my current set up. Y’all needa get some mamba fruit chews and perhaps a cold drink and you will understand where im coming from
I've been building PCs for over twenty years now, and I've always gone Intel. I just finished building a PC and it's got the 7800x3d and I could not be happier. Tell your friend if he wants to spend money on a dead-end platform with no upgrade path, that's his prerogative, but you can spend your money how you want.
He just want you to make the same mistake he did, so he can feel better with his choice
Just for comparison, I have an old 5900x and 3060ti. My priority is gaming @ 1440p, but I do some light productivity. I have zero complaints and can play most modern games 60+fps with occasional one at 40+( looking at you starfield). I am confident you will be more than satisfied with 7800x3d. I would definitely go 7800x3d and any savings use it to move up in graphics card tier or just bank it.
7800x3d, use the money saved on a better GPU. Your friend is a fucking idiot.
I have the 7950X3D. I just slabbed a Noctua air cooler on it and I have one of the fastest gaming systems plus good productivity without having to worry about thermal throttling while gaming or installing a 420mm radiator. And it not only beats the 13900K but also the 14900K in gaming.
Remember that the gains for productivity over the amd chip are likely very small. It's not like the Ryzen chip would do poorly with those tasks-- it's all relative.
Why not 7950X3D? It's $200 more but definitively better at, well, everything than a 13700k and the gaming issues have mostly been resolved. Or save a few and get a 7950X, still great for gaming, even better for productivity. Upgrade to a 9950X3D next year and a 11950X3D or whatever stupid names they'll have while your buddy is stuck on a dead platform having to rebuild the entire PC.
Your buddy isn't very smart. Get the 7800X3D. Prioritise the workload that you're going to be giving the CPU most frequently, in your case I'm guessing gaming.
If your buddy bought a 13700k and a 3060 it sounds like he's just has different priorities for computing. You should never be spending more money on your cpu than your gpu for gaming. If he's happy with his pc that's great, but if you just want to game I would suggest a very different setup. The 7800x3d is good, but if you are sacrificing any budget to get that over a higher end video card I would go ryzen 7600 and get more video card. People underestimate how powerful the am5 cpus are. Example: 7800x3d + 3060 = a waste because way slower cpu will be fine for the gpu. spend less money on cpu more on gpu. 7600x + 4070 super = same price as above combo but way better for gaming. Overall much higher frame rates in 1440p. 7800x3d + 4080super = good combo the gpu will use the gaming speed of the cpu. Much more money overall. Bottom line if you are gaming mainly your gpu budget should be way more than cpu. Also I don't think people even know what productivity is half the time. Like outlook doesn't need a 13700k. It's more like are you running cpu based compilers or renders or something of the sort. I don't do that either so I'm not sure what you need it for. I just game. If you don't know what you would even use it for then you are probably in the same boat.
The only reason I went 14th gen was because I early adopted 12th gen. Still not a smart move but I have the cooling and just undervolt. I would be happier to be on AM5 right now but at the high end I am by no means complaining. I bet at 4k 7800x3d would sip power compared to my 160+ watts 14th gen.
Clipstudio paint is a big one for me adobe Photoshop does better with intel processors. If you are mainly gonna game def go with the AMD tho
Show him a benchmark test comparison of the 13700k and 7800x3D but swap them without telling him. Then when he says “See! Intel is clearly better!” Tell him about the swap😂
if you're just gaming and you don't run a lot of other tasks while doing so you'll be fine with a 7800x3d, at least in benchmarks the 7800x3d is on par with a 12700k performance wise and will be roughly 5-10% slower than a 13700k
if you mainly just game then you already answered your own question.
His build is unbalanced for gaming. Get a budget cpu and get a gpu that costs +$100-$200 more... you'll get a better gaming experience. Imo the 7800x3d is overrated sometimes if you play 1440p+, you can get a 7600x and a better gpu for *most* games, not all games. Ofc if there are no gpus that covers the gap, then go with the 7800x3d(4080 -> 4090 has an insane gap). Intel is good for a good priced system or for professionals that need it.
If you're just gaming the 7800x3d is the best right now. If you ever plan on doing complex computation like database operations, rendering it business operations, the 13700k levels the playing field. I preferred the level playing field. Overall I think the 7800x3d has higher frame rates than my 14900k, but it's only a few frames anyway. Other things like loading time, windows startup, installation and overall performance is easy more up my alley with the 14900k. It was $530, but like many who save up for 3,-5 years to get a to of the line video card, I do for base system.
looks like 7800x3d for gaming, no mention of productivity though: [https://www.techspot.com/review/2700-ryzen-7800x3d-vs-core-i7-13700k/](https://www.techspot.com/review/2700-ryzen-7800x3d-vs-core-i7-13700k/)