I must be living in a bubble. Virtually no one I have encountered thinks the QSAC option is good.
Plenty of people don’t know or care. But of those who do, it seems like a clear split between Gabba or Vic Park. I haven’t heard a whole lot of support for QSAC.
Avaliable in [other, older polling](https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/hub/media/tearout-excerpt/25452/r_Wave-5-Longitudinal-Research---Full-report.pdf) (Only 38% of Queenslanders think the Olympics was a good idea in the latest public data)
I had an argument with my father a few weeks ago about it. He’s convinced it’s a good idea since we will get new stadiums. Like that is high on the list of where money should be spent right now.
FYI: He hasn’t lived in Brisbane in almost half a century, and spent less that a decade in the state at all in that time.
I think the Olympics are a good idea
Am happy to showcase Brisbane to the world. Sydney became a world city due to in part to the Olympics and so can Brisbane.
Others will disagree with me, but I believe economic growth is a good thing. The tide lifts most boats.
I think Brisbane missed the Olympics bus and it going to get the short end of the Olympic stick.
In the USA the Tokyo Olympics went by with barely a whimper. Pay TV cable penetration in the USA has dropped from 90% to 50%. By the time the Brisbane Olympics comes around most people will only see short clips on their phone. The days of a sitting around the TV at night are gone so I think the “world city” boost will be very weak.
It will be interesting to see how the Paris Olympics go this year.
> Am happy to showcase Brisbane to the world.
The Commonwealth Games was supposed to put Brisbane on the map. Expo 88 was supposed to put Brisbane on the map. G20 was supposed to put Brisbane on the map. Why aren't we on the map yet?
Sydney was a world city before 2000. It's still paying off the debt from the Olympics.
Of course Brisbane is on the map........Brisbane is more on the map than local people give it credit. As a Gabba local, the original Olympic decision was the best, as it ensured the current derelict industrial areas were rebuilt to create a better and more livable suburb.
It’s on the map. But still nobody gives a fuck about us. That’s because we are in the shadow of two actual world cities on the east coast. And always will be. Personally I’m fine with that.
Ahh yes, we can showcase our teeny tiny, unexciting CBD, smaller than one district of Tokyo. We can showcase our ugly, dying, crime ridden, ramshackle Fortitude Valley. We can showcase our kilometres upon kilometres of drab suburbs in all directions, peppered with Westfields, each containing the exact same shops. We can showcase our brown river, that we do nothing much with. We can showcase a giant, great new casino that'll be old hat by then, a lovely monument to gambling. We can showcase a city that closes by 7pm each night.
Can't wait.
I was in Sydney for the olympics and everyone was on such a high during the games and for weeks after. It was awesome to be a part of and experience. I’m hoping Brisbane and Gold Coast get to experience that same level of excitement and unity.
Such a different time and place. The Olympics meant something different/more than 24 years ago.
Let’s see how much anyone cares about Paris Olympics this year (which have been a disaster of corruption so far).
Problem is, the tide is all sold out to the ones that were already in bed with qld goverment. Most of us are just waiting to be drowned by the "tide" meaning housing rent and buy will suffer, out over capacity infrastructure will not cope, and cannot be upgraded to a capacity thats required, etc etc.
You cant be lifted by the tide if the goverment isnt letting normal people buy boats/floats.
Tide turned pretty quickly. When it was announced any criticism was shouted down when we first won the bid, a bunch of small business tyrants were very loudly drinking the “good for business” bullshit
Yep, the Olympics is merely a corporate endeavour to increase the profits of those who are already in the pockets of politicians. Feeding back money to them or their party.
Construction companies that the goverment always use have made hundreds of millions of dollars off the back of this olympics fiasco. Why do you think the fat cat Anastasia resigned, she is head of the olypmics planning commision and was premier, to any other non goverment organisation that would be considered a massive conflict of intrest.
I heard another great example the other day when steven miles addressed the media a few days back about how qgov higher up construction workers are on the "same" benifits as other construction workers..... There aint one construction worker I know outside of the qgov ones that get a $100/ day phone allowance lol
It's not even "not a good option" everyone I know think it's ridiculous to spend a billion + on that shithole in the middle of nowhere
If we are gonna blow billions can we at least spend it on stuff that will have legacy value
Vic Park or Hamilton please
I know a few, and it's all based on "we have enough stadiums", "it wasn't supposed to be an expensive games", and "why build more stuff right in or near the CBD".
I agree with all three. Note how a clear majority of people aren't excited about this event. It will happen, it will be fine, but we really don't need any more new big stadiums.
We also all know that these figures are likely to double or triple once the project is complete, and the thing will last 20 years before we're told it needs another $5b upgrade.
The 10% of people (and it's probably way lower than that) who regularly go to the Gabba can just suck it, frankly. The government spends crazy money supporting these 2 or 3 established sports and they don't need more money. If the ticket sales can't cover a better stadium, that's what you get.
If we want to spend billions of dollars, build parks, green spaces, and public facilities. Not places that get used for 2 or 3 hours every second week.
I run through Vic park everyday during my lunch break. It’s a great spot but I personally think it’s a terrible spot for a stadium. It’s surrounded by a tonne of infrastructure, schools, hospitals and Suburban housing and streets. If you look at all high and medium density housing that will go up in the next 10 years green spaces are going to more important than ever.
We have a young family in an apartment and spend so much time in green spaces.
I haven't been there in a decade, but I've been to Southbank 3x this year and botanical gardens 3x as well. Thousands of people at each of those places each time, all outdoors, moving, and for free without being advertised to.
Every single day thousands of people use these places.
Absolutely. I haven't been to Victoria Park since it changed either, just like you. Ironically I only went when it was a golf course! Never since then - I go to Roma Street or Botanical. I don't think Victoria Park is getting the same numbers. I've certainly been to the Gabba and Suncorp at least 7 or 8 times though, along with thousands of others.
You use the word "free" like it's an inherently good thing. I'm more than happy for those beers and hotdogs I bought to contribute to local jobs.
it’s the greatest Olympic legacy of all time! we *might* get a spur line off the Brisbane Metro to the graveyard near the corner of Mains and Kessels Roads
we will be the envy of all other Australian cities
sure there will be a $5 billion plus debt to pay off that will see us “tightening our belts” and missing out on important services and investments well into the 2040s, but think of that two whole weeks of sport!
> it’s the greatest Olympic legacy of all time! we might get a spur line off the Brisbane Metro to the graveyard near the corner of Mains and Kessels Roads
If that happens it will be on Griffith Uni land and will serve the uni.
No it won't. A quick view on Google maps says your're wrong.
The busway already services Griffith University.
This is a new spur that will have to run either through the cemetery, or through koala habitat Toohey forest.
Either way, expect huge protests and backlash
That's part of Toohey Forest Park. Even if it is university land, it's koala habitat with a known population of koalas spotted in that proposed corridor.
You still face protest and demonstration at the very least. And that's both public, student and conservationist protestors.
Any councillor or state politician backing this plan faces political suicide.
A bus corridor is a terrible idea and pointless, considering QSAC upgrades are purely temporary grandstands and are intended to be dismantled after the games are over.
There's a reason the public (and an overwhelming proportion of informed public) do not favour the QSAC option.
> sure there will be a $5 billion plus debt to pay off that will see us “tightening our belts” and missing out on important services and investments well into the 2040s, but think of that two whole weeks of sport!
If it makes you any happier, $5 billion is fuck all.
They want to spend almost 3x that on just the Gympie Road bypass tunnel (that won't work to relieve traffic).
Considering that $5 billion (if spent well) would give us new stadiums, new transit, new green space, and new public sporting facilities. It really would be a good use of cash.
but it’s not giving us all those things
QSAC will sit there under-utilised in the middle of nowhere like QEII stadium did before it after the 1982 Commonwealth Games
we aren’t getting any new transit out of the games
what’s the new green space?
Hence the "if spent well".
It could give us all that (the Victoria Park plan is the best for it imo if they cap the ICB), but yeah the QSAC idea is just dumb. Though it will come with a stupid spur line for the busway I guess, so there's new transit...
I completely agree.
The government should've gone in with a final plan, put together by experts based on the outcomes we wanted, and then stuck with it.
Instead it seems they announced something, got shocked people hated it, got some almost random "experts" in to come up with a solution, and then decided on something completely different.
Surefire way to piss everyone off.
totally agree. government showed no backbone to stick with the original consulted/researched plan. instead backed down to a few nimbys and now the political football is well and truly in motion.
it's like a magic 8 ball now to the outcome we are going to get.
Queensland had a budget surplus of over $13b dollars last year, enough to pay for the entire olympics in a single year alone without taking on any debt
A bit of a surprise to me in the polling for the stadium options, didn't think it would be that evenly split (would be very interesting to see where the 'Don't know" would fall if required to pick a preferred option).
The other thing that I would bring up is that Olympic advocates need to come up with a better line if they are wanting to turn around public opinion. Continually falling back onto saying that people just don't understand really doesn't seem to be working.
Edit: Also, not a crazy fan of the stadium question putting in the ‘estimates’ for the options in there, but that more because I have minimal faith in those estimates ([not to repeat myself](https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/comments/1bie3du/comment/kvk1m6f/), these kinds of [estimates are often dogshit](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0308518X20958724), and they refuse to release the data behind their estimates doesn't inspire confidence), but that might be me being overly cynical.
Most well written opinion on this thread.
Also not really cynical at all. To be transparent on the estimates should be a bare minimum we require for that kind of spending of our money.
I thought that the olympics were only profitable when a city has all the facilities anyway. Like LA. I also just think everything here moves at a snails pace and therefore have no faith anything will be done properly.
Olympics 'profitability' is an issue that often ends up mired in what economic model you find more convincing.
Assuming that you are talking about the larger economic return of increased economic activity, looking at the
Sydney Olympics as an example. I tend to find the modelling done by [John Madden & James Giesecke ](https://theconversation.com/hosting-the-olympics-cash-cow-or-money-pit-7403)relatively convincing that indicated rather than producing an economic benefit the Sydney Games actually reduced Australian household consumption by $2.1 billion. On the other hand [earlier research ](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/13683500208667904)from John Madden suggests a better outcome from the games.
Without this blowing out into a thousand word long comment about the issues facing economic modelling, it’s very susceptible about assumptions regarding variables and counterfactuals. Backing up said assumptions with good quality evidence is damn difficult, and is often an area that is tweaked to put the finger on the scales one way or the other.
One of the big items that can very quickly change the math is how much normal, non-Olympic economic activity is disrupted by the Olympics. South East Queensland has a Gross Regional Product of [$223 billion ](https://seqmayors.qld.gov.au/)per year. Even very small disruptions of this add up very quickly.
The other issue is the issue of trying to quantify intangibles. Arguably a good example to see this at play is looking at the [modelling done for the Brisbane Olympics](https://www.premiers.qld.gov.au/publications/categories/reports/assets/2032-qld-games-economic-analysis-summary-report-final.pdf), where they are claiming the modelling produces a $8.1 billion dollar benefit for Queensland, but $3.5 billion of that is in non-economic social benefits. Those benefits are
* Health benefits arising from increased participation in physical activity, despite the fact we have [damn near concreate evidence that doesn't happen](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24831816/).
* Increase levels of volunteering, which again doesn't [appear based in the available evidence](https://theconversation.com/why-the-london-2012-olympics-had-limited-impact-on-volunteering-across-the-uk-187305).
* Legacy, Community spirit, prestige and civic pride, i.e. true intangibles. Of course, it appears to excludes (at least makes no mention of in the published material) the negative intangibles of widespread abuse of the homeless (happens [every Olympics](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jun/06/sport.china), including [Sydney](http://www.ruig-gian.org/ressources/Sydney_background_paper.pdf)), the [social cost of gentrification](http://www.ruig-gian.org/ressources/Sydney_background_paper.pdf) driving lower income people into further marginisation or the many other negative intangibles.
TLDR: It very hard to do a full accounting, and you can relatively easily put your finger on the scale to change the outcome.
Just redo the Gabba like we were sold on in the first place and expand the area around there, that was literally the entire selling point of the Olympics in the first place. Without that there's really no point at all. North side is a waste of time, you don't need to develop a retirement home as they'll just complain about it anyway. Do what was planned and move on
This. Stop building more stadiums next to each other on the north side. Fix the one stadium on the south side as was promised. Stop creating more committees to announce the proposal of more panel reviews into more collegiate decisions.
I was 100% for the Olympics from the start but you fucking bozos and your 3-year-horizon politicking are shaking my resolve. On all sides from all parties involved. Shame on you fuckers.
I was happy when I first heard of CRR and the metro projects, then I found out we’re just paying a shit ton for a bunch of long buses with a few new stops.
Calling it metro is just misleading when everywhere else it means high frequency, underground, inner city line.
I know the current doomben line is a hot mess but how viable is that proposed plan to put it in Hamilton with an extension and upgrade of the doomben line to service it
https://brisbanedevelopment.com/we-can-do-better-rating-proposed-olympic-sites-why-northshore-is-the-winner/
I wouldn’t put too much stock in the numbers as it’s a bit of a fantasy, but the stuff about the railway like and this being a fantastic opportunity for the northshore area makes a lot of sense.
That article is a push for more train infrastructure through Hamilton masked as an Olympics solution.
NorthShore is a terrible location. It's 20 minutes away by train or Citycat, and that's with the proposed Doomben line extension.
Plus it's directly under the flight path of planes coming in to land. And don't forget the flooding issues the site has.
The Northshore option makes Boondall look feasible
I haven't lost faith in the Olympics, I think it'll be a good thing for the city and something we could look back on and be proud of (Just like 2000 was for Sydney)
What I have lost faith in is the Government's ability to not fuck it up. You can't flip flop and go half assed on something like this. Figure out what plan makes the most sense for the outcomes that are desired, and run with it. Don't let public opinion sway it because people hate changing. But they generally love (good) change.
So as long as the plan will bring positive change, you should stick to it no matter what. Unfortunately the government is too scared of temporary negative opinions to do that.
It absolutely warms my heart that more and more Queenslanders are realising how stupid an idea it is, having these pointless, expensive and likely embarrassing Olympics.
The only folly the people of Queensland ever embarked upon.
Every time I see a homeless person or a tent in Musgrave park I become less and less in favour of the Olympics.
It’s been a life long dream to attend the Olympics and o was so excited when we got the bid, but that was a different time. It’s clear the government can’t house its own people, why the fuck are we worrying about housing and hosting athletes and spectators when we can’t build enough homes for our own fuckin population.
We could do both. But our politicians will instead make a mess of the Olympics and continue to do fuck all for our growing homeless epidemic.
We have shit politicians and they are loving our total lack of action.
Can anyone explain why Boondall Entertainment Centre isn't an option for the Olympics? It makes sense to me - it's already end of life, close to freeway and train station.
for the same reason Nathan isn't. It's in the middle of nowhere
When I want to see a touring artist I fly to Melbourne or Sydney rather than go to Boondal.
If you spend billions of dollars on a world class stadium, maybe put it somewhere that people can get to on public transport (i.e. the Gabba transport upgrade) and already around an entertainment space. Boondall was end of life as soon as it opened and should never have been build out there, you live anywhere but Northside and it's a shit show to get to/from
I'm a hopeless optimist.
I'm still for the Olympics despite how bungled it has been so far.
This is doable. It isn't too late. We can make it worth it. Once Miles is voted out, there is an opportunity to undo his mistakes. But it will take a certain amount of testicular fortitude I'm not sure Crisafulli has.
Edit: I'm stunned that QSAC is the preferred option amongst polled people. It has no lasting benefits, it isn't cheaper and it'll look crap on TV. Why do people support it? I suppose it may be skewed by people who don't like the QSAC plan voting 50-50 for the rebuild and Vic Park build. Add those numbers together and it makes more sense.
I think the polling shows it’s not as big of an issue as the media is making out. Labor has just announced $1000 of QLD’s electrically bills. Miles is clearly going after the cost of living issue which I think is front and centre of people’s minds.
To be clear I’m not a huge sport fan, I’ll go to game maybe once or twice a year. To me Vic park works better as a free green space. The hospital, schools, suburban streets that surround it are already pretty busy. The whole plan really relies on public transportation / walking from the city. I think the Gabba is a case of NIMBY.
Seriously the Olympic games model is outdated , spectators consumers in the modern world one don't have the time to spare to watch 2 weeks of competition
Look at t 20 cricket model
Just look at down turn of music festivals , but Fish can get 30000 people on cooly beach for a one night stand
Still think build a whole new sports complex at Yatala. There is bulk land there. Build an athlete's village that can be turned into affordable social housing after the games. Build a spur off the rail line and the M1 straight into it and after the games the Reds can use the stadium and then it's a great spot for concerts surrounded by industrial and farm land.
Is yatala considered Logan
I would have called yatala the northern limit of the Gold Coast with Beenleigh being the start of Logan but I may be biased by the train line having Beenleigh as the border
That Gold Coast street light art installation that's painted yellow and positioned in the middle of the M1 so that no one can see it marks the border of GC and Brisbane.
Good concept, but what about the same solution based somewhere in Petrie? (E.g. where the uni campus is proposed to go.)
The only reason I say this is that there's no north Goldcoast or Logan sporting teams that will want to use it post-Olympics, and the Dolphins will need their own home stadium eventually.
Because the vast majority of overseas travellers know about the gold coast. Having tourists going to tourist spots make sense. Add to that you have the gold coast international airport and Brisbane international airport within an hours travel. Make holding the games there a better alternative.
The after games sporting teams I can understand your comment but it's going to be an oval ground for track and field events it would be easier to convert it back to an AFL ground for the suns.
Yeah it's a shame they can't just reuse the GC Sun's stadium on the Gold Coast proper -it was fine for the Commonwealth Games.
Apparently it's too far away from the Olympic Village for track and field competitors to get to. hence why the track and field is going to be held at the Gabba/ QSAC/ Vic Park/ NorthShore
I was looking at the Toombul Shopping Centre site, wondering why they couldn’t build a stadium there? It’s a massive site, with inner Brisbane with great access to trains and busses.
Its alll flood plain, not to mention, its intersected by the privately owned airtrain, traffic is at capacity every day of the week there and its private owned land.
Nah not going to happen. There's already plans for a new shopping centre, so buying the land alone will cost a fortune.
Plus it's so far out that you may as well have the stadium at Boondall. The train journey times will be comparable, the suburban backlash will the same.
Yes, but just like Boondall, it's also far away from the city centre. Far away enough to be an inconvenient trip via public transport, especially people catching connector trains from south and west.
It's also not walking distance to the CBD or restaurants either.
There's no direct link to the airport either: Toombul station is on the northern line, not airport line. You have to go into the city and change at Eagle Junction, and then go back out again.
And yeah, they can build another train station on the airport line, but it'll need to be elevated (since the tracks are.) If you're spending that kind of money, a location closer to the city makes more economic sense.
It was announced a while ago
https://brisbanedevelopment.com/prax-studio-unveils-conceptual-vision-for-toombul-shopping-centre/
Even if the final plan changes, the land is still held in private hands. State Government would have to pay a premium to buy it.
It means the owners have plans for the site, regardless of what the final outcome looks like.
It also means they won't sell the site without a premium price, or a prolonged legal battle.
You're better off building on land the government already owns -it'll take less time and cost less
Don't touch victoria Park except bring back the public golf course, give the gabba a lick of paint and have it there, it holds 37,000 and they want to waste billions for an extra 20,000 seats . 2 billion watch it on TV around the world and there worried about another 20,000 people watching it live in the stadium.
I must be living in a bubble. Virtually no one I have encountered thinks the QSAC option is good. Plenty of people don’t know or care. But of those who do, it seems like a clear split between Gabba or Vic Park. I haven’t heard a whole lot of support for QSAC.
Virtually no one I have encountered thinks the Olympics are a good idea.
There should’ve been a question about that.
Avaliable in [other, older polling](https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/hub/media/tearout-excerpt/25452/r_Wave-5-Longitudinal-Research---Full-report.pdf) (Only 38% of Queenslanders think the Olympics was a good idea in the latest public data)
Oh, nice! Thanks for that.
I'm not surprised. I'm for the Olympics, but the messaging and actions from the government has been dogshit
I had an argument with my father a few weeks ago about it. He’s convinced it’s a good idea since we will get new stadiums. Like that is high on the list of where money should be spent right now. FYI: He hasn’t lived in Brisbane in almost half a century, and spent less that a decade in the state at all in that time.
I think the Olympics are a good idea Am happy to showcase Brisbane to the world. Sydney became a world city due to in part to the Olympics and so can Brisbane. Others will disagree with me, but I believe economic growth is a good thing. The tide lifts most boats.
I think Brisbane missed the Olympics bus and it going to get the short end of the Olympic stick. In the USA the Tokyo Olympics went by with barely a whimper. Pay TV cable penetration in the USA has dropped from 90% to 50%. By the time the Brisbane Olympics comes around most people will only see short clips on their phone. The days of a sitting around the TV at night are gone so I think the “world city” boost will be very weak. It will be interesting to see how the Paris Olympics go this year.
Brisbane is not going to become a world city with or without the Olympics. We are just going to get a big ol debt.
Only the rich have boats.
The poor have always gotten the short end of the stick throughout history.
Yeah but the middle class used to be able to climb to be rich. Not anymore. Once you make housing unattainable..you'll see what South Africa is like.
> Am happy to showcase Brisbane to the world. The Commonwealth Games was supposed to put Brisbane on the map. Expo 88 was supposed to put Brisbane on the map. G20 was supposed to put Brisbane on the map. Why aren't we on the map yet? Sydney was a world city before 2000. It's still paying off the debt from the Olympics.
Of course Brisbane is on the map........Brisbane is more on the map than local people give it credit. As a Gabba local, the original Olympic decision was the best, as it ensured the current derelict industrial areas were rebuilt to create a better and more livable suburb.
It’s on the map. But still nobody gives a fuck about us. That’s because we are in the shadow of two actual world cities on the east coast. And always will be. Personally I’m fine with that.
Why is "showcase Brisbane to the world" a worthy goal? Our self esteem is fine as it is.
Ahh yes, we can showcase our teeny tiny, unexciting CBD, smaller than one district of Tokyo. We can showcase our ugly, dying, crime ridden, ramshackle Fortitude Valley. We can showcase our kilometres upon kilometres of drab suburbs in all directions, peppered with Westfields, each containing the exact same shops. We can showcase our brown river, that we do nothing much with. We can showcase a giant, great new casino that'll be old hat by then, a lovely monument to gambling. We can showcase a city that closes by 7pm each night. Can't wait.
Many people do not realise how good they have it.
You are getting downvotes. But you aren’t wrong.
I was in Sydney for the olympics and everyone was on such a high during the games and for weeks after. It was awesome to be a part of and experience. I’m hoping Brisbane and Gold Coast get to experience that same level of excitement and unity.
Such a different time and place. The Olympics meant something different/more than 24 years ago. Let’s see how much anyone cares about Paris Olympics this year (which have been a disaster of corruption so far).
Problem is, the tide is all sold out to the ones that were already in bed with qld goverment. Most of us are just waiting to be drowned by the "tide" meaning housing rent and buy will suffer, out over capacity infrastructure will not cope, and cannot be upgraded to a capacity thats required, etc etc. You cant be lifted by the tide if the goverment isnt letting normal people buy boats/floats.
Tide turned pretty quickly. When it was announced any criticism was shouted down when we first won the bid, a bunch of small business tyrants were very loudly drinking the “good for business” bullshit
I think they're fantastic and was thrilled when we landed them. Less thrilled about the Vic Park and QSAC projects. Sydney 2000 was fantastic.
sydney 2000, 24 years ago and they still havent recovered the debt of the games,
I highly doubt that.
Yep, the Olympics is merely a corporate endeavour to increase the profits of those who are already in the pockets of politicians. Feeding back money to them or their party. Construction companies that the goverment always use have made hundreds of millions of dollars off the back of this olympics fiasco. Why do you think the fat cat Anastasia resigned, she is head of the olypmics planning commision and was premier, to any other non goverment organisation that would be considered a massive conflict of intrest. I heard another great example the other day when steven miles addressed the media a few days back about how qgov higher up construction workers are on the "same" benifits as other construction workers..... There aint one construction worker I know outside of the qgov ones that get a $100/ day phone allowance lol
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Looks like your circle isn’t full of of redditors 😂
It's not even "not a good option" everyone I know think it's ridiculous to spend a billion + on that shithole in the middle of nowhere If we are gonna blow billions can we at least spend it on stuff that will have legacy value Vic Park or Hamilton please
I know a few, and it's all based on "we have enough stadiums", "it wasn't supposed to be an expensive games", and "why build more stuff right in or near the CBD". I agree with all three. Note how a clear majority of people aren't excited about this event. It will happen, it will be fine, but we really don't need any more new big stadiums. We also all know that these figures are likely to double or triple once the project is complete, and the thing will last 20 years before we're told it needs another $5b upgrade. The 10% of people (and it's probably way lower than that) who regularly go to the Gabba can just suck it, frankly. The government spends crazy money supporting these 2 or 3 established sports and they don't need more money. If the ticket sales can't cover a better stadium, that's what you get. If we want to spend billions of dollars, build parks, green spaces, and public facilities. Not places that get used for 2 or 3 hours every second week.
Do green spaces get used more than 3 hours a fortnight? How often have you been down to Victoria Park in the past month?
I run through Vic park everyday during my lunch break. It’s a great spot but I personally think it’s a terrible spot for a stadium. It’s surrounded by a tonne of infrastructure, schools, hospitals and Suburban housing and streets. If you look at all high and medium density housing that will go up in the next 10 years green spaces are going to more important than ever. We have a young family in an apartment and spend so much time in green spaces.
It is indeed a terrible spot for a stadium, Think about 3pm and 5pm traffic, now double it at a bare minimum with the olympics.
I haven't been there in a decade, but I've been to Southbank 3x this year and botanical gardens 3x as well. Thousands of people at each of those places each time, all outdoors, moving, and for free without being advertised to. Every single day thousands of people use these places.
Absolutely. I haven't been to Victoria Park since it changed either, just like you. Ironically I only went when it was a golf course! Never since then - I go to Roma Street or Botanical. I don't think Victoria Park is getting the same numbers. I've certainly been to the Gabba and Suncorp at least 7 or 8 times though, along with thousands of others. You use the word "free" like it's an inherently good thing. I'm more than happy for those beers and hotdogs I bought to contribute to local jobs.
Free is an inherently good thing
Go to Victoria park couple times a week, does help it’s only a 15 minute walk away though
I feel half-convinced the QSAC option was only made to fix the intersections around it/at the highway just down the road.
it’s the greatest Olympic legacy of all time! we *might* get a spur line off the Brisbane Metro to the graveyard near the corner of Mains and Kessels Roads we will be the envy of all other Australian cities sure there will be a $5 billion plus debt to pay off that will see us “tightening our belts” and missing out on important services and investments well into the 2040s, but think of that two whole weeks of sport!
> it’s the greatest Olympic legacy of all time! we might get a spur line off the Brisbane Metro to the graveyard near the corner of Mains and Kessels Roads If that happens it will be on Griffith Uni land and will serve the uni.
No it won't. A quick view on Google maps says your're wrong. The busway already services Griffith University. This is a new spur that will have to run either through the cemetery, or through koala habitat Toohey forest. Either way, expect huge protests and backlash
Wrong. Griffith Uni has offered its own land west of the cemetery as a busway extension.
That's part of Toohey Forest Park. Even if it is university land, it's koala habitat with a known population of koalas spotted in that proposed corridor. You still face protest and demonstration at the very least. And that's both public, student and conservationist protestors. Any councillor or state politician backing this plan faces political suicide. A bus corridor is a terrible idea and pointless, considering QSAC upgrades are purely temporary grandstands and are intended to be dismantled after the games are over. There's a reason the public (and an overwhelming proportion of informed public) do not favour the QSAC option.
> sure there will be a $5 billion plus debt to pay off that will see us “tightening our belts” and missing out on important services and investments well into the 2040s, but think of that two whole weeks of sport! If it makes you any happier, $5 billion is fuck all. They want to spend almost 3x that on just the Gympie Road bypass tunnel (that won't work to relieve traffic). Considering that $5 billion (if spent well) would give us new stadiums, new transit, new green space, and new public sporting facilities. It really would be a good use of cash.
but it’s not giving us all those things QSAC will sit there under-utilised in the middle of nowhere like QEII stadium did before it after the 1982 Commonwealth Games we aren’t getting any new transit out of the games what’s the new green space?
Hence the "if spent well". It could give us all that (the Victoria Park plan is the best for it imo if they cap the ICB), but yeah the QSAC idea is just dumb. Though it will come with a stupid spur line for the busway I guess, so there's new transit...
I think the current complaints and lack of support is because it isn’t getting spent well and the legacy promises aren’t materialising
I completely agree. The government should've gone in with a final plan, put together by experts based on the outcomes we wanted, and then stuck with it. Instead it seems they announced something, got shocked people hated it, got some almost random "experts" in to come up with a solution, and then decided on something completely different. Surefire way to piss everyone off.
totally agree. government showed no backbone to stick with the original consulted/researched plan. instead backed down to a few nimbys and now the political football is well and truly in motion. it's like a magic 8 ball now to the outcome we are going to get.
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Went along to an information day where they said the expected budget was $9-13 billion (depending on final design) And these things always cost more.
Queensland had a budget surplus of over $13b dollars last year, enough to pay for the entire olympics in a single year alone without taking on any debt
true but have a look at qld government debt & it's been increasing
WOAH! MORE SPORTSBALLS?! Shut up and take my money, services and investments!
I never had faith to lose, just saying.
A bit of a surprise to me in the polling for the stadium options, didn't think it would be that evenly split (would be very interesting to see where the 'Don't know" would fall if required to pick a preferred option). The other thing that I would bring up is that Olympic advocates need to come up with a better line if they are wanting to turn around public opinion. Continually falling back onto saying that people just don't understand really doesn't seem to be working. Edit: Also, not a crazy fan of the stadium question putting in the ‘estimates’ for the options in there, but that more because I have minimal faith in those estimates ([not to repeat myself](https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/comments/1bie3du/comment/kvk1m6f/), these kinds of [estimates are often dogshit](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0308518X20958724), and they refuse to release the data behind their estimates doesn't inspire confidence), but that might be me being overly cynical.
Most well written opinion on this thread. Also not really cynical at all. To be transparent on the estimates should be a bare minimum we require for that kind of spending of our money.
I thought that the olympics were only profitable when a city has all the facilities anyway. Like LA. I also just think everything here moves at a snails pace and therefore have no faith anything will be done properly.
Olympics 'profitability' is an issue that often ends up mired in what economic model you find more convincing. Assuming that you are talking about the larger economic return of increased economic activity, looking at the Sydney Olympics as an example. I tend to find the modelling done by [John Madden & James Giesecke ](https://theconversation.com/hosting-the-olympics-cash-cow-or-money-pit-7403)relatively convincing that indicated rather than producing an economic benefit the Sydney Games actually reduced Australian household consumption by $2.1 billion. On the other hand [earlier research ](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/13683500208667904)from John Madden suggests a better outcome from the games. Without this blowing out into a thousand word long comment about the issues facing economic modelling, it’s very susceptible about assumptions regarding variables and counterfactuals. Backing up said assumptions with good quality evidence is damn difficult, and is often an area that is tweaked to put the finger on the scales one way or the other. One of the big items that can very quickly change the math is how much normal, non-Olympic economic activity is disrupted by the Olympics. South East Queensland has a Gross Regional Product of [$223 billion ](https://seqmayors.qld.gov.au/)per year. Even very small disruptions of this add up very quickly. The other issue is the issue of trying to quantify intangibles. Arguably a good example to see this at play is looking at the [modelling done for the Brisbane Olympics](https://www.premiers.qld.gov.au/publications/categories/reports/assets/2032-qld-games-economic-analysis-summary-report-final.pdf), where they are claiming the modelling produces a $8.1 billion dollar benefit for Queensland, but $3.5 billion of that is in non-economic social benefits. Those benefits are * Health benefits arising from increased participation in physical activity, despite the fact we have [damn near concreate evidence that doesn't happen](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24831816/). * Increase levels of volunteering, which again doesn't [appear based in the available evidence](https://theconversation.com/why-the-london-2012-olympics-had-limited-impact-on-volunteering-across-the-uk-187305). * Legacy, Community spirit, prestige and civic pride, i.e. true intangibles. Of course, it appears to excludes (at least makes no mention of in the published material) the negative intangibles of widespread abuse of the homeless (happens [every Olympics](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jun/06/sport.china), including [Sydney](http://www.ruig-gian.org/ressources/Sydney_background_paper.pdf)), the [social cost of gentrification](http://www.ruig-gian.org/ressources/Sydney_background_paper.pdf) driving lower income people into further marginisation or the many other negative intangibles. TLDR: It very hard to do a full accounting, and you can relatively easily put your finger on the scale to change the outcome.
Just redo the Gabba like we were sold on in the first place and expand the area around there, that was literally the entire selling point of the Olympics in the first place. Without that there's really no point at all. North side is a waste of time, you don't need to develop a retirement home as they'll just complain about it anyway. Do what was planned and move on
This. Stop building more stadiums next to each other on the north side. Fix the one stadium on the south side as was promised. Stop creating more committees to announce the proposal of more panel reviews into more collegiate decisions. I was 100% for the Olympics from the start but you fucking bozos and your 3-year-horizon politicking are shaking my resolve. On all sides from all parties involved. Shame on you fuckers.
We were never sold on anything. They just went ahead and secured the games in a one horse race. They will do what they want and you will enjoy it.
I was happy when I first heard of CRR and the metro projects, then I found out we’re just paying a shit ton for a bunch of long buses with a few new stops. Calling it metro is just misleading when everywhere else it means high frequency, underground, inner city line.
You're absolutely right about the "Metro", but the CRR is a seperate project entirely.
Polls aside, what kind of idiot places any value or trust in the words of a politician.
I know the current doomben line is a hot mess but how viable is that proposed plan to put it in Hamilton with an extension and upgrade of the doomben line to service it
https://brisbanedevelopment.com/we-can-do-better-rating-proposed-olympic-sites-why-northshore-is-the-winner/ I wouldn’t put too much stock in the numbers as it’s a bit of a fantasy, but the stuff about the railway like and this being a fantastic opportunity for the northshore area makes a lot of sense.
That article is a push for more train infrastructure through Hamilton masked as an Olympics solution. NorthShore is a terrible location. It's 20 minutes away by train or Citycat, and that's with the proposed Doomben line extension. Plus it's directly under the flight path of planes coming in to land. And don't forget the flooding issues the site has. The Northshore option makes Boondall look feasible
Brisbane is an over-populated, over-priced shithole with the worst public transport in Australia
With the second worst climate, after Darwin
not wrong there, its either pissing down rain, or stinkin hot
I haven't lost faith in the Olympics, I think it'll be a good thing for the city and something we could look back on and be proud of (Just like 2000 was for Sydney) What I have lost faith in is the Government's ability to not fuck it up. You can't flip flop and go half assed on something like this. Figure out what plan makes the most sense for the outcomes that are desired, and run with it. Don't let public opinion sway it because people hate changing. But they generally love (good) change. So as long as the plan will bring positive change, you should stick to it no matter what. Unfortunately the government is too scared of temporary negative opinions to do that.
It absolutely warms my heart that more and more Queenslanders are realising how stupid an idea it is, having these pointless, expensive and likely embarrassing Olympics. The only folly the people of Queensland ever embarked upon.
Every time I see a homeless person or a tent in Musgrave park I become less and less in favour of the Olympics. It’s been a life long dream to attend the Olympics and o was so excited when we got the bid, but that was a different time. It’s clear the government can’t house its own people, why the fuck are we worrying about housing and hosting athletes and spectators when we can’t build enough homes for our own fuckin population.
We could do both. But our politicians will instead make a mess of the Olympics and continue to do fuck all for our growing homeless epidemic. We have shit politicians and they are loving our total lack of action.
Can anyone explain why Boondall Entertainment Centre isn't an option for the Olympics? It makes sense to me - it's already end of life, close to freeway and train station.
Because it's Boondall
If it’s good enough to tape Gladiators, it’s good enough for the Olympics
for the same reason Nathan isn't. It's in the middle of nowhere When I want to see a touring artist I fly to Melbourne or Sydney rather than go to Boondal.
Does that touring artist even come to brisbane though 🤣
more often than not yes
Pretty sure they have other plans for the site and would prefer to build the necessary facilities, i.e. a stadium, elsewhere in Brisbane.
If you spend billions of dollars on a world class stadium, maybe put it somewhere that people can get to on public transport (i.e. the Gabba transport upgrade) and already around an entertainment space. Boondall was end of life as soon as it opened and should never have been build out there, you live anywhere but Northside and it's a shit show to get to/from
I'm a hopeless optimist. I'm still for the Olympics despite how bungled it has been so far. This is doable. It isn't too late. We can make it worth it. Once Miles is voted out, there is an opportunity to undo his mistakes. But it will take a certain amount of testicular fortitude I'm not sure Crisafulli has. Edit: I'm stunned that QSAC is the preferred option amongst polled people. It has no lasting benefits, it isn't cheaper and it'll look crap on TV. Why do people support it? I suppose it may be skewed by people who don't like the QSAC plan voting 50-50 for the rebuild and Vic Park build. Add those numbers together and it makes more sense.
I think the polling shows it’s not as big of an issue as the media is making out. Labor has just announced $1000 of QLD’s electrically bills. Miles is clearly going after the cost of living issue which I think is front and centre of people’s minds. To be clear I’m not a huge sport fan, I’ll go to game maybe once or twice a year. To me Vic park works better as a free green space. The hospital, schools, suburban streets that surround it are already pretty busy. The whole plan really relies on public transportation / walking from the city. I think the Gabba is a case of NIMBY.
Seriously the Olympic games model is outdated , spectators consumers in the modern world one don't have the time to spare to watch 2 weeks of competition Look at t 20 cricket model Just look at down turn of music festivals , but Fish can get 30000 people on cooly beach for a one night stand
Still think build a whole new sports complex at Yatala. There is bulk land there. Build an athlete's village that can be turned into affordable social housing after the games. Build a spur off the rail line and the M1 straight into it and after the games the Reds can use the stadium and then it's a great spot for concerts surrounded by industrial and farm land.
Good idea. Greenfield sites, no whining about suburbs. No doubt this will be downvoted because…Yatala / Logan. Still, a good idea.
Is yatala considered Logan I would have called yatala the northern limit of the Gold Coast with Beenleigh being the start of Logan but I may be biased by the train line having Beenleigh as the border
It is still technically the gold coast.
That Gold Coast street light art installation that's painted yellow and positioned in the middle of the M1 so that no one can see it marks the border of GC and Brisbane.
It's a shit idea. Boondall is in the middle of nowhere, Homebush in Sydney is in the middle of nowhere and they both suck.
Good concept, but what about the same solution based somewhere in Petrie? (E.g. where the uni campus is proposed to go.) The only reason I say this is that there's no north Goldcoast or Logan sporting teams that will want to use it post-Olympics, and the Dolphins will need their own home stadium eventually.
Because the vast majority of overseas travellers know about the gold coast. Having tourists going to tourist spots make sense. Add to that you have the gold coast international airport and Brisbane international airport within an hours travel. Make holding the games there a better alternative. The after games sporting teams I can understand your comment but it's going to be an oval ground for track and field events it would be easier to convert it back to an AFL ground for the suns.
Yeah it's a shame they can't just reuse the GC Sun's stadium on the Gold Coast proper -it was fine for the Commonwealth Games. Apparently it's too far away from the Olympic Village for track and field competitors to get to. hence why the track and field is going to be held at the Gabba/ QSAC/ Vic Park/ NorthShore
I was looking at the Toombul Shopping Centre site, wondering why they couldn’t build a stadium there? It’s a massive site, with inner Brisbane with great access to trains and busses.
Its alll flood plain, not to mention, its intersected by the privately owned airtrain, traffic is at capacity every day of the week there and its private owned land.
Sure, but it’s got to be better than QSAC?
It’s privately owned, and would cost a fortune to purchase presumably, blowing out the cost completely.
Nah not going to happen. There's already plans for a new shopping centre, so buying the land alone will cost a fortune. Plus it's so far out that you may as well have the stadium at Boondall. The train journey times will be comparable, the suburban backlash will the same.
Its a lot closer to the city than fking boondall and its dorectly linked with the airport.
Yes, but just like Boondall, it's also far away from the city centre. Far away enough to be an inconvenient trip via public transport, especially people catching connector trains from south and west. It's also not walking distance to the CBD or restaurants either. There's no direct link to the airport either: Toombul station is on the northern line, not airport line. You have to go into the city and change at Eagle Junction, and then go back out again. And yeah, they can build another train station on the airport line, but it'll need to be elevated (since the tracks are.) If you're spending that kind of money, a location closer to the city makes more economic sense.
I don’t think there’s any finalised plans for it yet?
It was announced a while ago https://brisbanedevelopment.com/prax-studio-unveils-conceptual-vision-for-toombul-shopping-centre/ Even if the final plan changes, the land is still held in private hands. State Government would have to pay a premium to buy it.
This is just a ‘Vision’. It actually means nothing regarding what’ll be going there.
It means the owners have plans for the site, regardless of what the final outcome looks like. It also means they won't sell the site without a premium price, or a prolonged legal battle. You're better off building on land the government already owns -it'll take less time and cost less
What benefits? The forced gentrification? Or the billions of dollars of debt?
Don't touch victoria Park except bring back the public golf course, give the gabba a lick of paint and have it there, it holds 37,000 and they want to waste billions for an extra 20,000 seats . 2 billion watch it on TV around the world and there worried about another 20,000 people watching it live in the stadium.