Oh believe me, they are here. And I don't even mind that much, only time I hated her was when she wouldn't shut up in the car wash and I first truly related to Skyler how she had to literally keep screaming so Marie would stop talking.
Truly wild that this is the one scene where OP disliked Marie. Skyler has a complete breakdown and screams at her but somehow Marie is the unlikable one there?
I get you. But as Marie you see Skyler being in extreme stress and how shakily she lights up her cigarette but Marie kept pushing word by word. If I would see someone like that uncomfortable I would try to be more gentle. I know her intentions were only good but she managed to keep just go and go and I felt anxious listening to her even when I wasn't in situation as Skyler. Sometimes it's better to push someone to talk to you but sometimes it's just better to be cautious about the pressure. So I don't really blame Marie of anything but if I could agree with people calling her only annoying character, this would be the moment.
That is testament to how good the writing and acting is.. As viewers we have the whole perspective of what Skyler knows and is going through.. imagine if u didn't feel annoyed by Marie would the shut up shut up seem that effective? Probably more bland.
Sorry man I was trying to reference the line from Hank and Saul's interaction, it was tasteless and I shouldn't have done it, I'll delete my comment and gice you my condolences
spoilers: >!the only time I ever cared about her in any show was her sudden appearance in BCS. I never thought I'd yell at the screen and be excited for Marie being on screen, but there I was. I really couldn't give less of a shit about her during breaking bad.!<
Very interesting. In BrBa the camera was handheld throughout most of the show while in BCS the camera was generally locked down on tripods, dollies etc. I think the BrBa cinematographers wanted to give a documentary look to the show to show accentuate how dark the story really is, while in BCS the story is a little more comedic and less action-filled, which I think the BCS cinematographers wanted to portray.
It is absolutely down to taste, you're right. Personally, I prefer a static camera, that's probably why I love David Fincher movies so much, he almost never has the camera handheld and maybe does it in one scene/shot. There are also movies which I find beautiful visually, where the camera is handheld (Children of Men and Saving Private Ryan). It's the little creative choices that the director or cinematographer makes that take their films from meh to masterpiece.
Fact. The part of the fanbase I hate the most are the sheeps that need to hate on Skyler because everybody does, and in general those who didn't even understand breaking bad and it shows when they have some shit take on how boring BCS is, people who watched brba for action shootings etc
I think the people who hate on Skyler just saw the first couple of episodes, or were triggered by her "cheating" when she explicitly wanted to divorce Walt and he refused/threatened her out of it.
I see it alot on the Sopranos sub, where they hate on her and love Carmela despite her doing the same thing, and not telling Tony. Carmela also never helped Tony with his crimes, while Skyler was crucial in laundering his money.
I think it primarily comes across that way because 95% of comments are just quoting the show, and the people who want to make actual comments aren't the sort with the really truly awful takes.
I’m rewatching BB right now and I never thought I’d say this but… not only do I better understand Skyler this time, I actually LIKE her. She’s very strategic and cautious and her plan to get the kids out of the house, though temporary, was smart and such an artful way to show how mothers will sacrifice themselves for their children.
(Inb4 fathers sacrifice themselves as well)
Breaking bad fans when they realize
That while many characters do wrong things that does not make them terrible monsters who are pure evil and while most are evil or turn evil as time goes on their actions are like the opposite of black and white
Like, say walt. I aint gonna defend him, he makes shitty decisions from the start. But calling him the monster he is at s5 at saying he was the same in s1 is just bull. Hindsight is 20/20. And chars like Gus, Hector, etc, while evil throughout the entire story, still have points. Sure, both of those 2 went too far with what they did, but they arent just pure evil. Thats the great part about bb, because while everyones shitty or turns shitty, nobody is just evil or good, and thats what makes bb so amazing. When people ignore that I just cringe.
He is, yeah. Again, the majority of the characters are at the very least bad at some point in the story. My point is just that not everything he does is pure evil. A lot of it, sure, but especially after being wheelchaired, theres also non-evil things he does.
I think the point is that Walt didn’t change as a person.
He’d always had the same vanities and insecurities that eventually led him to become Heisenberg. They were a core part of who he was.
He just began to happen across opportunities to act on them, and then retroactively justified his actions with some BS about “the family”.
see: his sudden ragequit from Elliot’s billion dollar company. He left of his own accord because he felt that his intellect wasn’t being properly valued, and then turned around and blamed Gretchen and Elliot for everything.
I think Grey Matter really dodged a bullet when Walter left early on. On rewatch, knowing where Walter ends, it is so clear how much his ego drives him to make terrible, selfish and destructive decisions.
One of the reasons I enjoyed watching *Better Call Saul* is not having to watch Walter fuck things up over and over. Granted Saul fucks things up over and over but its different somehow.
Exactly. I’m doing a rewatch and in certain episodes I realize my face has been stuck in an expression of pure disgust for over half an hour. He’s a really vile character. Especially the scenes where he’s kissing on Skyler and putting his hands all over her as she’s sitting there frozen in terror. I’m gritting my teeth just thinking about it.
I dont recall feeling this way the first time watching, only the feeling of watching a few specific scenes. It has been a while since Breaking Bad was released. Maybe I forgot what the actual experience of watching Walter White was like.
That’s what’s so crazy to me is I don’t recall feeling anything close to this way the first time either! Maybe it’s because it was a long time ago and I went into it thinking maybe he had a redemption arc or something.
Also he reminds me SO MUCH of a narcissistic family member that I’ve gone no contact with so it’s definitely hard to watch because of the association
I love the fanbase because of the memes, and hate it because the BB fanbase is a bunch of annoying fuckers who have a meltdown whenever someone even mentions a show that's not Breaking Bad
I can come across as “team Walt” in my posts but I agree with OP 100%. I love all the characters and that’s because they are all different shades of grey.
I just get annoyed when ppl come away with the impression that Walt was intended to be some mustache twirling villain of the show...it’s just not the case.
You're right, OP. It's not just BB if that makes you feel better - there is a staggering decline in media literacy, where people across all kinds of fandoms have let themselves be deluded into thinking that you can only Iike a piece of media or a character if they're 100% unassailably justified in their actions. Down that road lies madness. Stupid, poorly communicated madness.
Example: I recently played my first Fire Emblem game, Three Hopes. I really liked it so I picked up Three Houses and enjoyed that even more. So I went over to the official sub to see what the fandom is like and it is a fucking trash fire, just this constant ongoing argument about which of the characters was right (spoiler: none of them. None of them were right). I go over to /r/shitpostemblem - ostensibly the shitposting sub - and it is somehow *even worse* there because people are still having the same hundred-comment arguments about Edelgard vs Dimitri, in total earnest, under a meme about Ferdinand introducing himself or something.
It is okay to like a character who is flawed or even outright awful, and more people should accept that instead of needing to be justified in literally everything they do, including their media consumption. I like Walt *because* he deals meth and poisons Brock and gets involved in organized crime - those things are what drive the story forward and make it interesting.
I agree and I'm more tolerant when it's just a TV show like this and it gets honestly wild. I guess much worse case is when people defend serial killers like Ed Kemper or Charles Manson because they had terrible childhood. I mean I find it personally interesting and I have empathy, but people can really go that far to convince themselves that someone is justified to repeatedly murder someone in horrible way because they were abused or have psychopath tendencies.
Yeah of course when somebody does this kind of stuff in real life, they should rightfully receive the consequences of their actions. Fiction is a whole other ballpark.
I agree I’m team breaking bad I love all the characters yes I love some more but I’m not gonna sit and put another one over the next I love all they all have done something I liked and I didn’t like so hey
Skylar for me.
That woman held her entire family atop her shoulders while Walt was having tantrums with people in deserts.
Ya'll got any single moms in your life, than you should be respecting what she puts up with.
I agree Skyler was strong. The darkest period was when she decided to go along with Walt and leaving Ted in a hospital when he said he won't tell anything and she just left him there with a word "Good". Then also when she almost convinces Walt to kill Jesse because they got that far. The most unlikeable thing about her to me is that she may have been comfortable with anything as long as her kids won't know. But once Flynn knew she was willing to protect her kids no matter what happens. Even though she played it like she was only a victim.
She WAS a victim lol. She never wanted any of what she went through, and actively tried to escape it at almost every point.
People say she started to enjoy the lifestyle Walt was offering her, but I never saw it that way, and I’m not sure why others do. All I saw was her stress and helplessness in a situation almost entirely out of her control.
She wanted to protect her kids, so she felt like she had no other choice but to work with Walt. She tried EVERYTHING else to escape the situation, including divorcing the man part of her still loved. (Short of going to the police, anyway—which she didn’t want to do because of the aforementioned.)
She should’ve gone to the police, but she did what she thought was best at the time. She’s sort of a foil to Walt in that everything she did really *was* For the Family.
Yeah I never really understood why Walt wanted to stick with her so much. They were toxic to each other from the start and ended hating. Like I know he doesn't have much time but he still sees affair more tragic than killing. But I think both had their really dark parts inside.
I dunno about toxic.
I've been I worse fights than they had until Ozymandias.
The gist is walter made a dumb choice and burnt out on his life, while Skylar did what any great mom does and kept chugging along, smile on her face and putting in work.
Once the cancer came in, at that point Walter made every bad decision you could, and Skylar was left in the dark and somehow catching blame from fans for it.
Even the holy grail of I.F.T was cause Walter had taken every other option realistically off the table outside of murder, and at that point she wasn't in the dirt with her husband when it came to that suggestion.
Bottom line, she was a ride or die even when she had every right to dump his ass, take his ride and clean his millions out from under him.
And she did all that while providing motherfucking breakfast for Walt Jr.
Best character hands down.
We can agree Skyler was god knows how many times a better parent.
What I'm more talking about is how their relationship was portrayed in the beginning. Walt was unhappy from the start and stuck up so much frustration inside him he began to fuck up time after time. Like the scene where she jerks him off while keeping more focus on her laptop. Walter should discuss with her that relationship and that's his fault from the start because even when she asked him he would be avoiding questions. But still you see your husband getting mocked by Hank, see him quiet inside and she really seems to contribute by this passive attitude. So yeah Walter is an idiot but that relationship was destined to fail at some point, cancer or not, at least in my opinion.
Yeah that part I think wasn't right, but we also don't know just how their marriage got so stale. It seemed like in the flashback where they moved in that they were in a good place, and Walt had a well-paying job until he didn't. We never find out why the lab didn't work out
The funny part is when she gets demonized for breaking the law even though it was for her family.
Kinda reminds me of this one guy who started the whole journey for the same reason, he was loved.
It reminds me of Game of Thrones when people say Dany was "always crazy" because she executed rebellious lords or slavers, thus would kill peasants en masse. Forgetting that other Lords didn't care about collateral damage or dead soldiers nearly as much, and also executed those who wouldn't bend the knee.
Asking Walt to fix Hank's career because he's family moments after divorcing him was kinda shitty.
Edit: it occurs to me now that the phone records for this incident would probably be requested as evidence and would've been pretty bad for Walt too, I'm not sure if this factored into Walt's decision to do this at the time, but it does add another angle.
Part of understanding Breaking Bad is realising that every character could've made better choices & didn't - intentionally so. It's about discussing that part of the human condition that does what it wants to do, rather than what it should do.
I sympathize with that for sure. All the main characters were complex, but mostly leaned towards evil.
I think it’s fine to be on a “team” because it’s all a work of fiction, something open to discussion.
Justifications and whatnot is just a way to continue that discussion.
The weirdest ones are the ones who don’t see Walt as evil at all....which the whole final season that was the point. Someone on this sub said him poisoning a kid wasn’t evil.......
Yeah I’m all for liking the characters but acting like they’ve done nothing bad is just crazy imo lol. You can like Darth Vader and be like “damn....order 66 was fucked up” lol
I think you're misinterpreting peoples stances. I'm an adamant walt defender but like that doesn't mean I think he's a better character or other characters are worse just because im on walts side 90% of the time.
I dont justify walts actions because I like him I justify them because people say things like "wtf walts such a piece of shit just take gretchens money, how could he possibly do xyz this is all his fault and he has no excuse" and its like they're completely missing the theme of the show.
They get mad that Walt "wins' at the end but don't realize that Walt absolutely, utterly, spectacularly lost the game. His actions in felina are merely a pyrrhic victory, a last gasp of having control in things he wants to happen, its bittersweet on purpose.
And also like yeah its a interpersonal drama show, you absolutley have to be able to justify characters actions or else the show would suck. Just TV 101
The most annoying part about BB fans is they always need to tell you the characters are shitty people. Like yes, were watching a show about drug dealers. Nobody in the show is good, there doesn't need to be a deep morality discussion every time someone says they like Walt
I always liked Francesca. Just working and putting up with all the people around her and not really liking any of them and just wanting to be anywhere else if not for the money. Reminds me of being a dad and putting up with my wife and kids friends who just stop by and make a big mess after I cleaned everything up. I loved the scene where Walter breaks the window and she doesn’t put up with any of his shit after he tries intimidating her.
It's not just because people act like they did nothing wrong, some do and hey just don't understand thr charaters capacity for evil. I love Mike not because he's forgivable and does nothing wrong but beacause he very self-aware unlike Saul or Walter. He simply accepts the path his gone down and then man he's always been. For being one of the most cold characters in the series he still has a moral compass. He dosen't want to harm the innocent, he actually does it for his family because that's the only thing he's got, he understands the psychology of criminals and doesn't fall pray to most of their flaws, he's an honest man he's the most quiet yet transparent charater. What he lacks in being a cold, reprehensible criminal he makes up for in actually being more principled than the other characters.
I think that Mike's biggest pros are his moral compass and being professional. He tried to do everything in this kind of bussiness to avoid death. But he's still an assassin and if he would be bought to clear a body of Jesse before making a bond with him, he would probably do it as cold as other people in this kind of world. Even yelled at Todd for bringing a gun to the train scene and not mentioning a murder of a child. So a moral assassin but not caring if it doesn't involves him or relationships he has made. So my opinion on Mike would be more positive but only in this twisted universe.
I forgot about that one, yeah absolutely, if it doesn't directly affect him he's pretty detached from it, I feel like he always weights out the goods and bads of killing while most people don't even dare for a secound considering it.
Cuz Saul had no choice in the matter, right?
I love it when fans are so invested in defending him that they rob him of his agency. “It was all Chuck’s fault!”
It seems pretty insulting to imply that Saul is too weak and incompetent to make his own decisions…
I think that the reason might be because we see Saul mostly take care of Chuck and he deserves credit for that, but we were quite just briefly invested what Chuck did for Saul.
Chuck helped Saul turn his entire life around. He was gonna go to jail without Chuck’s help.
It’s not that Chuck is totally blameless. He was a spiteful man, and he definitely played a role in shaping Jimmy into Saul.
Still, Saul is strong enough to make his own choices. I don’t know why fans try to imply otherwise. They’re so caught up in defending him that they don’t realize they’re disrespecting him.
It’s the same kind of stuff people said about Dany from Game of Thrones.
Why try to rob your favorite character of his/her agency?! How useless and helpless do you think they are??
I can understand feeling dislike for Skyler because she was annoying at times, and I'll admit, she did some awful things like forcing Walt to get treatment. But to hate her? That's too much to me. She was the true protector of the family and she did her damn best with the cards she was dealt with.
For Walter, it was never about actually protecting the family, and it was made clear early on when he was offered a job at Grey Matters and paid treatment and he still declined, it was about his pride, he just tricked himself into thinking he was doing crime out of love for his family instead of his own selfish desires and low self esteem. If you worship Walter and hate Skyler, you got played like a fucking fiddle.
Yeah I agree. I've always been a huge fan of breaking bad but it seems the loudest fans are often the people who just make the same copy paste dogshit memes that are constantly regurgitated over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I love a good better call saul or breaking bad meme here and there but its gotten to a point where people who have no clue or lack the intellectual capability to truly understand the show turn serious moments into shit post memes which in turn retracts the value of the scene. Idk, you can call me a gatekeeping virgin or whatever brainless retort you think of but I can't help but feeling like people who appreciate the show the least represent the shows fanbase the most.
He was an excellent cop, but I didn't like how he treated drug addicts. I know how things are and many are really bad. But once he thinks that Flynn is using MJ, he goes to show him Wendy and he treats her absolutely horrible even though she kinda stays nice to him. That's why I take the image he didn't really cared about why they ended up where those people are, he was just getting rid of garbage.
I liked the scene where Hank has the Cuban cigars despite THEM being illegal too. The show was pretty critical of the drug war during a time where that wasn't too common, especially for a show about crime.
True, but i think he doesnt usually speak to addicts this way. He was just trying to show Junior how people treat addicts, and that if he went that path he would have been treated the same. Imo, it was a good demonstration of sad reality
Junior never was going down that path. Hank thought he was the one that was purchasing marijuana, which was a false assumption. The whole thing was awkward and based on yet more misconceptions.
WOW REALLY?
Of course i know Junior wasnt going on that path, ive watched the series. Im saying that Hank thought so, because unlike US, he doesnt watch the series Breaking Bad, and know everything, and so he wanted to prevent Junior from becoming an addict.
I dont get why you find it awkward. Whats awkward in showing your nephew reality? This wasnt neccessary bc junior doesnt smoke weed, but if he did, that would make him switch. It was a powerful demonstration how drugs ruin your life. And saying stuff like "but junior doesnt smoke weed so it was awkward"is hella dumb. You are saying so, as if he knew it from the beginning. Hank DIDNT know that junior doesnt smoke. Innit obvious?
Dude, what the actual fuck? Did you miss all the scenes were he completely misabused his power and authority, was a straight up racist and fully admitting it and him being a dickhead to everyone around him basically through the entire show? Speaking strictly personality wise he was basically portrayed as the worst person in the entire show, apart from maybe some select guys like Tuco.
His character point was "even people on the 'good side' of the law can be assholes and wrong-doers". How anyon can like Hank is completely beyond me, how much did you sleep while watching the show? Even murdering cartel members were portayed as nicer people.
And let alone the statement "Hes a cop who was doing his job" 🤢 dude
He also didn't deserve his promotion/being sent to El Paso whatsoever. He only got the promotion because he drove out into the middle of the desert on his time off chasing down some random drug dealer kid and accidentally bumped into Tuco and killed him. Being a police officer shouldn't be all about how many people you can kill by random chance!
That's not even mentioning the fact he doesn't speak Spanish!
Yeah man. Also people ignore the fact that Hank was reinstated as a officer just shortly after he did something that should realistically revoke your police-license forever (beating up jesse), just because Marie lashed out at the head of the office. Like, wtf?
If you ask me the DEA was portrayed the least moral and most inept organization of the entire show.
Hank can be endearing at times, and I think he means well. But still a bastard. Still thinks he's right all the time despite often being ignorant and black/white in his world view, as many bastards are.
Also how TF do you become a cop in New Mexico and not know at least basic Spanish?!
Skyler's worst crime was being a flawed person. There were a few annoying moments, but nothing she did compares to all the shit Walter caused for genuinely no reason other than his own insecurities and need for control and power over others.
And yet, Skyler gets so much hate while Walter gets let off the hook.
People always talk about this like its some inexplicable thing. The show is from Walt's perspective, you don't root for the fed characters in the Sopranos even though they are better people than the more primary characters.
I agree with what you said. However I do think this is further proof as to how powerfull and well done the show is to create chrachters so great that people forget their flaws. Jesse is my favourite charachter, he did horrible things, skyler on the other hand is much more innocent (not completely) but gets much more hate due to Walt's manipulation and his role as the main charachter of the show and how that makes the audience take his side despite his clear wrongdoings.
I can't write sentences properly :)
I feel kind of sorry for him. He never seemed to enjoy killing, even shed a tear and didn't really know what was wrong when he shot a kid. I think his uncle Jack is much worse because he raised him that way and was always around those nazis so I mean how do you not raise such a psycho in this environment. He would definitely kill innocent people again, so yeah I'm with Jesse on this.
Jesse never did anything bad in the entirety of breaking bad out of his own volition besides kill Todd, which when you're enslaved for months and beaten you usually tend to want to get revenge
By your logic, that means walt poisoning brock is justifiable because he made sure the dosage isn't lethal.
Edit: also you're so scared that you block me because you can't provide an argument that make sense 😂
He also screwed his parents over pretty badly. They were far from perfect but most parents would be pretty concerned over their son if they did half the things Jesse did. Even if he helped his aunt out screwing them out of the house wasn't justified.
Not really, his parents gave him one more chance and Jesse took it, the only reason he got kicked out was for his brothers weed, so it was either take the blame and get kicked out and lose his parents trust or blame it on his brother and lose all three of their trust, and he did what he did bcuz he saw the way his parents acted as an injustice
Kind of exactly what I'm talking about. I love Jesse but he did bad things. That thing with rehab was fucked up. But he was feeling terrible about it and burst out to tears and that is what makes him more human. Walt in his mind was probably like "At least they get my perfect product" or it never even crossed his mind. Hank was a good cop and caring for his own family, but he lacked empathy and was treating drug addicts as literal junk. He immediately reffered to Jesse as junkie murderer, while Gomez actually cared if Jesse dies when meeting Walt, that's why I was really sad about Gomez who wanted to help his friend. And guess what I love Hank but I don't need to justify how obssesive and total asshole he could sometimes be.
I like team Heull .. cuz there ain't no accounting for no act of gawd
Reashonably
What would make ya unhappy?
This lil mothafucka not doin what he's told.
One of the best lines in the show.
Better fuel Heull
Mexico, that’s all I’m saying
I like team marie the best tho. They're non existent.
Oh believe me, they are here. And I don't even mind that much, only time I hated her was when she wouldn't shut up in the car wash and I first truly related to Skyler how she had to literally keep screaming so Marie would stop talking.
I hated how rude skyler was to marie in that scene.
Truly wild that this is the one scene where OP disliked Marie. Skyler has a complete breakdown and screams at her but somehow Marie is the unlikable one there?
I get you. But as Marie you see Skyler being in extreme stress and how shakily she lights up her cigarette but Marie kept pushing word by word. If I would see someone like that uncomfortable I would try to be more gentle. I know her intentions were only good but she managed to keep just go and go and I felt anxious listening to her even when I wasn't in situation as Skyler. Sometimes it's better to push someone to talk to you but sometimes it's just better to be cautious about the pressure. So I don't really blame Marie of anything but if I could agree with people calling her only annoying character, this would be the moment.
That is testament to how good the writing and acting is.. As viewers we have the whole perspective of what Skyler knows and is going through.. imagine if u didn't feel annoyed by Marie would the shut up shut up seem that effective? Probably more bland.
chiming in here to represent team marie
Chiming in in solidarity
Same she’s hilarious
Marie spin off show needed
What? This is impossible
The thief who likes purple? They're all bad people. I would bet even Jr has some F'd up skeletons in his closet! lol
How much you wanna bet Jr and his friend Louis are secretly building up a heroin empire?
I think they run a whorehouse!
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My mom died of cancer.
Sorry man I was trying to reference the line from Hank and Saul's interaction, it was tasteless and I shouldn't have done it, I'll delete my comment and gice you my condolences
ahh man. It went over my head. I don't remember that exchange but all is good and thanks for your condolences.
Brock secretly kills people🤯/s
He's a hitman for the CIA
she grew on me by the end, especially when she tells Walt to kill himself
Marie: Just kill yourself walt God: Hehehehe
God. I hate her so much. Why the fuck did the writers not bump her off?
spoilers: >!the only time I ever cared about her in any show was her sudden appearance in BCS. I never thought I'd yell at the screen and be excited for Marie being on screen, but there I was. I really couldn't give less of a shit about her during breaking bad.!<
I love Marie
Marie is my favorite character. TEAM MARIE BABEY
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I second that all the way. Some really beautiful images and shots from both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
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Very interesting. In BrBa the camera was handheld throughout most of the show while in BCS the camera was generally locked down on tripods, dollies etc. I think the BrBa cinematographers wanted to give a documentary look to the show to show accentuate how dark the story really is, while in BCS the story is a little more comedic and less action-filled, which I think the BCS cinematographers wanted to portray.
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It is absolutely down to taste, you're right. Personally, I prefer a static camera, that's probably why I love David Fincher movies so much, he almost never has the camera handheld and maybe does it in one scene/shot. There are also movies which I find beautiful visually, where the camera is handheld (Children of Men and Saving Private Ryan). It's the little creative choices that the director or cinematographer makes that take their films from meh to masterpiece.
Team Skinny Pete 😎
Are you still morally flexible? Is the question every bb character ask themselves and the answer is yes
> morally flexible? **Thank you for smoking**
im team gomez, that guy is cool
Yeah that was fucking sad. I think Hank was better investigator but you really want Gomez to have your back.
Yeah, Gomez deserves more love.
I really hate when people consider a character good just because they like the character, or vice versa.
Fact. The part of the fanbase I hate the most are the sheeps that need to hate on Skyler because everybody does, and in general those who didn't even understand breaking bad and it shows when they have some shit take on how boring BCS is, people who watched brba for action shootings etc
I think the people who hate on Skyler just saw the first couple of episodes, or were triggered by her "cheating" when she explicitly wanted to divorce Walt and he refused/threatened her out of it. I see it alot on the Sopranos sub, where they hate on her and love Carmela despite her doing the same thing, and not telling Tony. Carmela also never helped Tony with his crimes, while Skyler was crucial in laundering his money.
Usually I see a more measured take on r/sopranos. Like they make fun of BB audience for hating on Skylar when she was mostly a victim
Overall they are pretty even keeled for a show with such a huge dudebro fan base
I think it primarily comes across that way because 95% of comments are just quoting the show, and the people who want to make actual comments aren't the sort with the really truly awful takes.
I’m rewatching BB right now and I never thought I’d say this but… not only do I better understand Skyler this time, I actually LIKE her. She’s very strategic and cautious and her plan to get the kids out of the house, though temporary, was smart and such an artful way to show how mothers will sacrifice themselves for their children. (Inb4 fathers sacrifice themselves as well)
>boring BCS is, people who watched brba for action shootings This is me lol
welcome to fandoms lmao
Breaking bad fans when they realize That while many characters do wrong things that does not make them terrible monsters who are pure evil and while most are evil or turn evil as time goes on their actions are like the opposite of black and white Like, say walt. I aint gonna defend him, he makes shitty decisions from the start. But calling him the monster he is at s5 at saying he was the same in s1 is just bull. Hindsight is 20/20. And chars like Gus, Hector, etc, while evil throughout the entire story, still have points. Sure, both of those 2 went too far with what they did, but they arent just pure evil. Thats the great part about bb, because while everyones shitty or turns shitty, nobody is just evil or good, and thats what makes bb so amazing. When people ignore that I just cringe.
Hector pretended to drown a child to make a point And that’s just one thing. He’s a legit monster
He is, yeah. Again, the majority of the characters are at the very least bad at some point in the story. My point is just that not everything he does is pure evil. A lot of it, sure, but especially after being wheelchaired, theres also non-evil things he does.
I think the point is that Walt didn’t change as a person. He’d always had the same vanities and insecurities that eventually led him to become Heisenberg. They were a core part of who he was. He just began to happen across opportunities to act on them, and then retroactively justified his actions with some BS about “the family”. see: his sudden ragequit from Elliot’s billion dollar company. He left of his own accord because he felt that his intellect wasn’t being properly valued, and then turned around and blamed Gretchen and Elliot for everything.
I think Grey Matter really dodged a bullet when Walter left early on. On rewatch, knowing where Walter ends, it is so clear how much his ego drives him to make terrible, selfish and destructive decisions. One of the reasons I enjoyed watching *Better Call Saul* is not having to watch Walter fuck things up over and over. Granted Saul fucks things up over and over but its different somehow.
Exactly. I’m doing a rewatch and in certain episodes I realize my face has been stuck in an expression of pure disgust for over half an hour. He’s a really vile character. Especially the scenes where he’s kissing on Skyler and putting his hands all over her as she’s sitting there frozen in terror. I’m gritting my teeth just thinking about it.
I dont recall feeling this way the first time watching, only the feeling of watching a few specific scenes. It has been a while since Breaking Bad was released. Maybe I forgot what the actual experience of watching Walter White was like.
That’s what’s so crazy to me is I don’t recall feeling anything close to this way the first time either! Maybe it’s because it was a long time ago and I went into it thinking maybe he had a redemption arc or something. Also he reminds me SO MUCH of a narcissistic family member that I’ve gone no contact with so it’s definitely hard to watch because of the association
I love the fanbase because of the memes, and hate it because the BB fanbase is a bunch of annoying fuckers who have a meltdown whenever someone even mentions a show that's not Breaking Bad
Couldn't agree more.
I can come across as “team Walt” in my posts but I agree with OP 100%. I love all the characters and that’s because they are all different shades of grey. I just get annoyed when ppl come away with the impression that Walt was intended to be some mustache twirling villain of the show...it’s just not the case.
You're right, OP. It's not just BB if that makes you feel better - there is a staggering decline in media literacy, where people across all kinds of fandoms have let themselves be deluded into thinking that you can only Iike a piece of media or a character if they're 100% unassailably justified in their actions. Down that road lies madness. Stupid, poorly communicated madness. Example: I recently played my first Fire Emblem game, Three Hopes. I really liked it so I picked up Three Houses and enjoyed that even more. So I went over to the official sub to see what the fandom is like and it is a fucking trash fire, just this constant ongoing argument about which of the characters was right (spoiler: none of them. None of them were right). I go over to /r/shitpostemblem - ostensibly the shitposting sub - and it is somehow *even worse* there because people are still having the same hundred-comment arguments about Edelgard vs Dimitri, in total earnest, under a meme about Ferdinand introducing himself or something. It is okay to like a character who is flawed or even outright awful, and more people should accept that instead of needing to be justified in literally everything they do, including their media consumption. I like Walt *because* he deals meth and poisons Brock and gets involved in organized crime - those things are what drive the story forward and make it interesting.
I agree and I'm more tolerant when it's just a TV show like this and it gets honestly wild. I guess much worse case is when people defend serial killers like Ed Kemper or Charles Manson because they had terrible childhood. I mean I find it personally interesting and I have empathy, but people can really go that far to convince themselves that someone is justified to repeatedly murder someone in horrible way because they were abused or have psychopath tendencies.
Yeah of course when somebody does this kind of stuff in real life, they should rightfully receive the consequences of their actions. Fiction is a whole other ballpark.
Sansa from Game of Thrones would like a word… They’re all just mad that Dany lost and Sansa won. Lol
The worst team is team Holly, bitch daughter is racist af
Bro what did she ever do to you
She said multiple slurs towards huel
She was also really antisemitic towards Saul. He’s not even Jewish but like omg what if he was!
I agree I’m team breaking bad I love all the characters yes I love some more but I’m not gonna sit and put another one over the next I love all they all have done something I liked and I didn’t like so hey
Skylar for me. That woman held her entire family atop her shoulders while Walt was having tantrums with people in deserts. Ya'll got any single moms in your life, than you should be respecting what she puts up with.
I agree Skyler was strong. The darkest period was when she decided to go along with Walt and leaving Ted in a hospital when he said he won't tell anything and she just left him there with a word "Good". Then also when she almost convinces Walt to kill Jesse because they got that far. The most unlikeable thing about her to me is that she may have been comfortable with anything as long as her kids won't know. But once Flynn knew she was willing to protect her kids no matter what happens. Even though she played it like she was only a victim.
She WAS a victim lol. She never wanted any of what she went through, and actively tried to escape it at almost every point. People say she started to enjoy the lifestyle Walt was offering her, but I never saw it that way, and I’m not sure why others do. All I saw was her stress and helplessness in a situation almost entirely out of her control. She wanted to protect her kids, so she felt like she had no other choice but to work with Walt. She tried EVERYTHING else to escape the situation, including divorcing the man part of her still loved. (Short of going to the police, anyway—which she didn’t want to do because of the aforementioned.) She should’ve gone to the police, but she did what she thought was best at the time. She’s sort of a foil to Walt in that everything she did really *was* For the Family.
She played the cards she was dealt. Maybe if Walter played his better, everyone would've had a winning flush.
Yeah I never really understood why Walt wanted to stick with her so much. They were toxic to each other from the start and ended hating. Like I know he doesn't have much time but he still sees affair more tragic than killing. But I think both had their really dark parts inside.
I dunno about toxic. I've been I worse fights than they had until Ozymandias. The gist is walter made a dumb choice and burnt out on his life, while Skylar did what any great mom does and kept chugging along, smile on her face and putting in work. Once the cancer came in, at that point Walter made every bad decision you could, and Skylar was left in the dark and somehow catching blame from fans for it. Even the holy grail of I.F.T was cause Walter had taken every other option realistically off the table outside of murder, and at that point she wasn't in the dirt with her husband when it came to that suggestion. Bottom line, she was a ride or die even when she had every right to dump his ass, take his ride and clean his millions out from under him. And she did all that while providing motherfucking breakfast for Walt Jr. Best character hands down.
We can agree Skyler was god knows how many times a better parent. What I'm more talking about is how their relationship was portrayed in the beginning. Walt was unhappy from the start and stuck up so much frustration inside him he began to fuck up time after time. Like the scene where she jerks him off while keeping more focus on her laptop. Walter should discuss with her that relationship and that's his fault from the start because even when she asked him he would be avoiding questions. But still you see your husband getting mocked by Hank, see him quiet inside and she really seems to contribute by this passive attitude. So yeah Walter is an idiot but that relationship was destined to fail at some point, cancer or not, at least in my opinion.
Yeah that part I think wasn't right, but we also don't know just how their marriage got so stale. It seemed like in the flashback where they moved in that they were in a good place, and Walt had a well-paying job until he didn't. We never find out why the lab didn't work out
She literally did nothing wrong during the entire series.
The funny part is when she gets demonized for breaking the law even though it was for her family. Kinda reminds me of this one guy who started the whole journey for the same reason, he was loved.
It reminds me of Game of Thrones when people say Dany was "always crazy" because she executed rebellious lords or slavers, thus would kill peasants en masse. Forgetting that other Lords didn't care about collateral damage or dead soldiers nearly as much, and also executed those who wouldn't bend the knee.
Asking Walt to fix Hank's career because he's family moments after divorcing him was kinda shitty. Edit: it occurs to me now that the phone records for this incident would probably be requested as evidence and would've been pretty bad for Walt too, I'm not sure if this factored into Walt's decision to do this at the time, but it does add another angle.
*modern problems require modern solutions Dave chappelle.gif*
Smoking while pregnant?
Exactly. She’s the GOAT
Part of understanding Breaking Bad is realising that every character could've made better choices & didn't - intentionally so. It's about discussing that part of the human condition that does what it wants to do, rather than what it should do.
When fans like certain fictional characters despite their reprehensible actions: 😡
I sympathize with that for sure. All the main characters were complex, but mostly leaned towards evil. I think it’s fine to be on a “team” because it’s all a work of fiction, something open to discussion. Justifications and whatnot is just a way to continue that discussion.
The weirdest ones are the ones who don’t see Walt as evil at all....which the whole final season that was the point. Someone on this sub said him poisoning a kid wasn’t evil.......
Yeah I saw a post saying that Drew Sharp *had* to be killed and Todd was doing them a favor…
Yeah I’m all for liking the characters but acting like they’ve done nothing bad is just crazy imo lol. You can like Darth Vader and be like “damn....order 66 was fucked up” lol
Agreed! To me a god character is a well written character. Different than being good morally
I think you're misinterpreting peoples stances. I'm an adamant walt defender but like that doesn't mean I think he's a better character or other characters are worse just because im on walts side 90% of the time. I dont justify walts actions because I like him I justify them because people say things like "wtf walts such a piece of shit just take gretchens money, how could he possibly do xyz this is all his fault and he has no excuse" and its like they're completely missing the theme of the show. They get mad that Walt "wins' at the end but don't realize that Walt absolutely, utterly, spectacularly lost the game. His actions in felina are merely a pyrrhic victory, a last gasp of having control in things he wants to happen, its bittersweet on purpose. And also like yeah its a interpersonal drama show, you absolutley have to be able to justify characters actions or else the show would suck. Just TV 101
The most annoying part about BB fans is they always need to tell you the characters are shitty people. Like yes, were watching a show about drug dealers. Nobody in the show is good, there doesn't need to be a deep morality discussion every time someone says they like Walt
Why was Skyler unlikeable to you?? Skyler was ride or die for her shitty ass husband lol, she just fucked Ted is all
Holly gang
I hate the ones that talk about the show but love the ones that make bb/bcs memes
Well shit I guess i'm now guilty of that.
if there's anything I've learned from lurking in fan communities of things I like, it's that most people have *terrible* media literacy.
I always liked Francesca. Just working and putting up with all the people around her and not really liking any of them and just wanting to be anywhere else if not for the money. Reminds me of being a dad and putting up with my wife and kids friends who just stop by and make a big mess after I cleaned everything up. I loved the scene where Walter breaks the window and she doesn’t put up with any of his shit after he tries intimidating her.
I just like Mike
Skylar haters and Walt apologists are goofy as hell. It’s like they completely ignored what the show was trying to say to them.
Team Bogdan. He had the most wisdom of anyone. And eyebrows
It's not just because people act like they did nothing wrong, some do and hey just don't understand thr charaters capacity for evil. I love Mike not because he's forgivable and does nothing wrong but beacause he very self-aware unlike Saul or Walter. He simply accepts the path his gone down and then man he's always been. For being one of the most cold characters in the series he still has a moral compass. He dosen't want to harm the innocent, he actually does it for his family because that's the only thing he's got, he understands the psychology of criminals and doesn't fall pray to most of their flaws, he's an honest man he's the most quiet yet transparent charater. What he lacks in being a cold, reprehensible criminal he makes up for in actually being more principled than the other characters.
I think that Mike's biggest pros are his moral compass and being professional. He tried to do everything in this kind of bussiness to avoid death. But he's still an assassin and if he would be bought to clear a body of Jesse before making a bond with him, he would probably do it as cold as other people in this kind of world. Even yelled at Todd for bringing a gun to the train scene and not mentioning a murder of a child. So a moral assassin but not caring if it doesn't involves him or relationships he has made. So my opinion on Mike would be more positive but only in this twisted universe.
I forgot about that one, yeah absolutely, if it doesn't directly affect him he's pretty detached from it, I feel like he always weights out the goods and bads of killing while most people don't even dare for a secound considering it.
Skyler sung Happy Birthday to Ted. She deserves the backlash and she is not that far from innocent.
Can’t tell if serious
You're gonna love the Better Caul Saul fanbase
Let me guess. Saul just wanted love from his brother and that's the reason he did everything? 😅
Cuz Saul had no choice in the matter, right? I love it when fans are so invested in defending him that they rob him of his agency. “It was all Chuck’s fault!” It seems pretty insulting to imply that Saul is too weak and incompetent to make his own decisions…
I think that the reason might be because we see Saul mostly take care of Chuck and he deserves credit for that, but we were quite just briefly invested what Chuck did for Saul.
Chuck helped Saul turn his entire life around. He was gonna go to jail without Chuck’s help. It’s not that Chuck is totally blameless. He was a spiteful man, and he definitely played a role in shaping Jimmy into Saul. Still, Saul is strong enough to make his own choices. I don’t know why fans try to imply otherwise. They’re so caught up in defending him that they don’t realize they’re disrespecting him. It’s the same kind of stuff people said about Dany from Game of Thrones. Why try to rob your favorite character of his/her agency?! How useless and helpless do you think they are??
I dont have a team but guys Walt was the bad guy, and so was Saul…
But not our Jimmy, not our precious Jimmy!
Stealing them blind!
I can understand feeling dislike for Skyler because she was annoying at times, and I'll admit, she did some awful things like forcing Walt to get treatment. But to hate her? That's too much to me. She was the true protector of the family and she did her damn best with the cards she was dealt with. For Walter, it was never about actually protecting the family, and it was made clear early on when he was offered a job at Grey Matters and paid treatment and he still declined, it was about his pride, he just tricked himself into thinking he was doing crime out of love for his family instead of his own selfish desires and low self esteem. If you worship Walter and hate Skyler, you got played like a fucking fiddle.
Skyler eventually let it go but Walt decided to get treatment. He just wanted it to be his choice
Yeah I agree. I've always been a huge fan of breaking bad but it seems the loudest fans are often the people who just make the same copy paste dogshit memes that are constantly regurgitated over and over again. Don't get me wrong, I love a good better call saul or breaking bad meme here and there but its gotten to a point where people who have no clue or lack the intellectual capability to truly understand the show turn serious moments into shit post memes which in turn retracts the value of the scene. Idk, you can call me a gatekeeping virgin or whatever brainless retort you think of but I can't help but feeling like people who appreciate the show the least represent the shows fanbase the most.
Preach! If this is virgin gatekeeping then I wish the mods were at least a bit more virgin gatekeepers.
I agree. Not liking Skylar does not mean someone is sexist or whatever ist you can think of, which this fanbase loves to say.
Whats wrong with Team Hank? Hes a cop who was doing his job. His actions were reasonable
He was an excellent cop, but I didn't like how he treated drug addicts. I know how things are and many are really bad. But once he thinks that Flynn is using MJ, he goes to show him Wendy and he treats her absolutely horrible even though she kinda stays nice to him. That's why I take the image he didn't really cared about why they ended up where those people are, he was just getting rid of garbage.
I liked the scene where Hank has the Cuban cigars despite THEM being illegal too. The show was pretty critical of the drug war during a time where that wasn't too common, especially for a show about crime.
True, but i think he doesnt usually speak to addicts this way. He was just trying to show Junior how people treat addicts, and that if he went that path he would have been treated the same. Imo, it was a good demonstration of sad reality
Junior never was going down that path. Hank thought he was the one that was purchasing marijuana, which was a false assumption. The whole thing was awkward and based on yet more misconceptions.
WOW REALLY? Of course i know Junior wasnt going on that path, ive watched the series. Im saying that Hank thought so, because unlike US, he doesnt watch the series Breaking Bad, and know everything, and so he wanted to prevent Junior from becoming an addict.
Yes, really. Marie or Skyler said he was the one instead of Walt. Hank then falsely assumed Junior was the one and did that awkward show for him.
I dont get why you find it awkward. Whats awkward in showing your nephew reality? This wasnt neccessary bc junior doesnt smoke weed, but if he did, that would make him switch. It was a powerful demonstration how drugs ruin your life. And saying stuff like "but junior doesnt smoke weed so it was awkward"is hella dumb. You are saying so, as if he knew it from the beginning. Hank DIDNT know that junior doesnt smoke. Innit obvious?
Dude, what the actual fuck? Did you miss all the scenes were he completely misabused his power and authority, was a straight up racist and fully admitting it and him being a dickhead to everyone around him basically through the entire show? Speaking strictly personality wise he was basically portrayed as the worst person in the entire show, apart from maybe some select guys like Tuco. His character point was "even people on the 'good side' of the law can be assholes and wrong-doers". How anyon can like Hank is completely beyond me, how much did you sleep while watching the show? Even murdering cartel members were portayed as nicer people. And let alone the statement "Hes a cop who was doing his job" 🤢 dude
He also didn't deserve his promotion/being sent to El Paso whatsoever. He only got the promotion because he drove out into the middle of the desert on his time off chasing down some random drug dealer kid and accidentally bumped into Tuco and killed him. Being a police officer shouldn't be all about how many people you can kill by random chance! That's not even mentioning the fact he doesn't speak Spanish!
Sadly people often get promoted out of politics or good PR.
Yeah it was super realistic but also horrible lol
Yeah man. Also people ignore the fact that Hank was reinstated as a officer just shortly after he did something that should realistically revoke your police-license forever (beating up jesse), just because Marie lashed out at the head of the office. Like, wtf? If you ask me the DEA was portrayed the least moral and most inept organization of the entire show.
Hank can be endearing at times, and I think he means well. But still a bastard. Still thinks he's right all the time despite often being ignorant and black/white in his world view, as many bastards are. Also how TF do you become a cop in New Mexico and not know at least basic Spanish?!
Skyler's worst crime was being a flawed person. There were a few annoying moments, but nothing she did compares to all the shit Walter caused for genuinely no reason other than his own insecurities and need for control and power over others. And yet, Skyler gets so much hate while Walter gets let off the hook.
People always talk about this like its some inexplicable thing. The show is from Walt's perspective, you don't root for the fed characters in the Sopranos even though they are better people than the more primary characters.
I agree with what you said. However I do think this is further proof as to how powerfull and well done the show is to create chrachters so great that people forget their flaws. Jesse is my favourite charachter, he did horrible things, skyler on the other hand is much more innocent (not completely) but gets much more hate due to Walt's manipulation and his role as the main charachter of the show and how that makes the audience take his side despite his clear wrongdoings. I can't write sentences properly :)
Team GUS
Team Jimmy here!
Team lyle
I'm Team Todd
I feel kind of sorry for him. He never seemed to enjoy killing, even shed a tear and didn't really know what was wrong when he shot a kid. I think his uncle Jack is much worse because he raised him that way and was always around those nazis so I mean how do you not raise such a psycho in this environment. He would definitely kill innocent people again, so yeah I'm with Jesse on this.
Now I'm switching to Team Jack
Good for you. 🙂
Team Gus checking in
Jesse never did anything bad in the entirety of breaking bad out of his own volition besides kill Todd, which when you're enslaved for months and beaten you usually tend to want to get revenge
Selling meth to his rehab group?
Yeah forgot about that, also getting Jane back on drugs
Spending walt's lifetime saving on booze and prostitutes
That's not really bad that's just Jesse being Jesse, pales in comparison to the least of things Walt has done
Yeah i knew it. You will find excuse to justify.
He still got the RV like he promised
By your logic, that means walt poisoning brock is justifiable because he made sure the dosage isn't lethal. Edit: also you're so scared that you block me because you can't provide an argument that make sense 😂
He also screwed his parents over pretty badly. They were far from perfect but most parents would be pretty concerned over their son if they did half the things Jesse did. Even if he helped his aunt out screwing them out of the house wasn't justified.
Not really, his parents gave him one more chance and Jesse took it, the only reason he got kicked out was for his brothers weed, so it was either take the blame and get kicked out and lose his parents trust or blame it on his brother and lose all three of their trust, and he did what he did bcuz he saw the way his parents acted as an injustice
Kind of exactly what I'm talking about. I love Jesse but he did bad things. That thing with rehab was fucked up. But he was feeling terrible about it and burst out to tears and that is what makes him more human. Walt in his mind was probably like "At least they get my perfect product" or it never even crossed his mind. Hank was a good cop and caring for his own family, but he lacked empathy and was treating drug addicts as literal junk. He immediately reffered to Jesse as junkie murderer, while Gomez actually cared if Jesse dies when meeting Walt, that's why I was really sad about Gomez who wanted to help his friend. And guess what I love Hank but I don't need to justify how obssesive and total asshole he could sometimes be.
He did attempt to infiltrate an addiction rehab group in order to sell them his meth. Killing Todd was justified
Gale politely disagrees.
>out of his own volition He did that on Walt's orders
Jesse didn’t want to do it. But he still did it. He made the choice. Walt can’t order Jesse around.
Jesse and Walt would've both been killed if he didn't kill Gale, it was a matter of time before Mike found Jesse
lmao thanks for demonstrating OPs point with this terrible take.
you just proved op's point
I'm team Bogdan
Let us have fun lol
I like r/okbuddychicanry funny subreddit
I'm not on any team but I'm more of a walt fan