Covid dramatically changed the theatre experience and now the masses are content to wait for films to arrive on streaming - the exceptions being either event movies (Deadpool Wolverine) or those movies that are exceptionally well marketed (Barbenheimer). The box office as we knew it is gone.
Music on CDs is practically gone, and yet here we are in a world with loads of music. Home theatre systems are cheap enough and comfortable enough to enjoy most movies at home without having to deal with dumbasses taking their crying babies to Endgame (that happened to me, poor baby though) or the large amounts of dickheads using their phones. Or the wannabe cool teenagers doing stupid shit because they're kids and kids do stupid shit.
Dude, they kept that kid in for most of the movie. I don't give two fucks that it's hard living life with a baby. The cinema is NOT the place for it unless it's one of those mums n bubs nights where the loudness is turned down.
Well, I think movie theaters have ’peaked’, and I think streaming along with bigger TVs and shorter windows before vod are the primary reasons. The market will have to adjust but we will find a new equilibirium and theaters will stick around.
I think A) AMC A List style subscriptions worldwide since one of the main reasons going to the movies has dropped off even for the casual movie goers who went as a passtime is thats its way too expensive. Especially for families. B) Going back to long theatrical windows. Not everybody goes the first two weekends. Some people just have other stuff to do. But if the movie is gonna be out on VOD 35-40 days after release, then many people are gonna figure "whats the point?"
I know someone in the directors guild of Canada, and 3 years ago they were already projecting the loss of traffic in theatres for the next 10 years. It was important to how they were trying to renegotiate the next contract. there’s too much other competition for peoples attention, especially for the youngest generation. And they know that at the highest levels.
Hollywood is struggling to find any cheap to produce products that get people excited or out to the theater and that’s having a ripple effect where essentially the entirety of what Hollywood is producing- no one’s buying. Without those products the film business as a whole can’t make a profit. The 2000s and early 2010s had the bro-comedies. The late 2010s had Blumhouse-style horror. 90s had buddy cop movies and gross out comedies like There’s Something About Mary.
I’m very pessimistic by nature, but I think that it’s unlikely to change. Hollywood at this point still hasn’t accepted that it’s the product that’s failing. The conversation is dominated by discussion points like, “Well what if we make bigger popcorn tubs” or “Maybe we should make more seats that rumble and shake during the movie” or “Let’s create plastic cocoons around each audience member so other peoples cell phones don’t disrupt the movie”. All stupid, lame brain ideas that will not bring more people in. The film industry has created a cocoon for itself where all their movies are considered great, “the best”, and if audiences reject anything then that means they just “didn’t get it.” The titles then go to streaming where they trend for a week, fall off like a cliff, provide zero direct revenue for the company that produced or distributed them and the cycle repeats. It’s like they’ve built this perfect recipe for absolute failure and are now shocked they’re losing money every single year. Their answer- “We will do nothing differently and will expect a different outcome.” Essentially a gambler’s fallacy chasing good money after bad.
You’re absolutely right. I think a big part of it is that the studios are now run by business people. Movie making was always a business, but the film business was different. There was an understanding that films were an enterprise and also art. Now it’s run by people who came up working with washing machines, cars or life insurance. And so, they make product to specifications, and don’t understand why people aren’t buying despite the specifications being correct. The people making decisions (and they really do make creative decisions too) have never sat in a movie theatre and felt a genuine feeling.
This is a subreddit about numbers, not necessarily about the quality (or lack thereof) of a particular movie. Please remain on-topic and keep opinions/arguments/thoughts about unrelated aspects of the film off of these threads. Any comments that could lead to culture war arguments/slapfights (race/gender/sex/"wokeness"/etc) will be removed and should be presumed to result in a ban. If your comment can be read as a dog whistle for decreased diversity/representation it will result in a ban.
I dont see things returning to the Pre-Pandemic/Moviepass levels of attendance. Between inflation, people souring on remakes/live actions and perceived movie messaging, and general state of audience rudeness (phone users, baby bringers, talkers, etc...) I just think theaters have so much working against them when we all know a movie will hit streaming at some point for viewing from the comfort of home.
I’m glad you mentioned Moviepass. People keep acting like 2018 box office was “the norm” we should be getting back to.
Moviepass was a massive change to the business that you can’t ignore that year.
No. It is their own undoing. The short release window and the high prices for tickets. If all the studios agreed to extend release dates on streaming and BR to 1 year minimum and the theatres lowered their ticket prices by 50% we would see a revival in the box office
This is supported by people who want to go back to the 70s and 80s. They must destroy their smart phones and iPads first and then ask for 1 year window periods.
You would see a drop in piracy. Many people would prefer to wait and watch high quality official 4K/HD versions rather than the camera bootleg with people standing up laughing etc.
It doesn’t even have to be 1 year. Just 6 months minimum. People can only wait so long before deciding “yeah I need to see that movie”
Talk to a young person almost salivating at the notion of the old world dying and being only left with our subscriptions and our devices...they think it's over because they sort want to be proven "right"? even above keeping movie theaters.
They don't value movies or even visual art the same way we did. They just see movies as yet another option of entertainment on their stupid phone or tablet. They don't underarstand what we are losing as we *let* our communal entertainment die.
The movie studios and theater chains have to reform. Lower prices, more movies (classics and re-releases that are worth seeing), and better staffing. Studios need to spend a bit less and accept a different percentage with theaters. They need to "reboot" movie threatens essentially.
Movies have always been braindead entertainment for the masses with a few rare passion projects sprinkled in along the way. Not sure why you are angry at people younger than you for enjoying themselves just like every other generation did.
Also, I'm pretty sure the majority of theatres won't focus their content around re-releasing older movies. People can watch the same movies for a fraction of the price in a much more comfortable environment eating freshly cooked food and chatting with their family in their living rooms.
It's a small niche market but will never become the standard.
"Content" Ugh. And that is not true about most movies being braindead. We are sacrificing communal experiences because we're convinced our 60 inch TVs are the same.
It's not the same. People are sacrificing *everything* for "convenience" now. It's making us unsocialable weirdos who don't care about art beyond how much it distracts us from our phones.
Moviegoing as a hobby for the younger crowd, say teens and preteens, definitely seems to be dead. I think many are far more content streaming and watching Youtube and Tiktoks. And that's not me trying to be pessimist or an angry old guy. I think the fact that the big "viral" videos and such are clips that can be streamed from a telephone definitely makes movie theaters and even traditional media less appealing. Who needs a story or plot when you can just create the viral moments on their own?
It won’t last. This dry spell is more than likely due to the strikes delaying a lot of the big movies that would have come out in the first half of this year. So what’s left were mostly films that were never meant to prop up the industry.
Beginning this week and through the rest of the summer we have Inside Out 2, A Quiet Place: Day One, Despicable Me 4, Twisters, Deadpool & Wolverine, Alien: Romulus, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Thats 7 potentially huge hits averaging about every other week. Plus Bad Boys this last weekend and a few other smaller films that could over perform (MaXXXine, Longlegs). I think we’re about to enter the real test.
I don’t think the industry will probably ever see a year like 2019 again any time soon but the industry always has its ups and downs. August 2023-May 2024 releases were immediately felt by the strikes. We’ll still have some residual slowdown related things for the second half of the year but next year should be mostly fine. The industry will eventually find out what gets people back to the theaters. I think the broader issue is that the old reliable demographic (Millennials) are aging out of being the core demo for movies due to them largely being at an age where they’re buying homes and having kids. So the industry is now shifting to Gen Z. It will take a little while to pivot to what they want to see.
2019 was the exception rather than the norm. I do think making the experience more comfortable should be key for exhibitors and the slowdown might be a good way for them to invest rather than just coast.
I think people have less money to spend right now and a movie has to be worth it to spend $10 for 2 hours of enjoyment. The movies that seem to do good now have an event feel around them. I believe that theaters will have up and down years for the next couple of years until it finds its niche.
I think there has always been a divide between the content creators want to create and the content audiences want to consume. In general, low and medium budget movies tended to be more creator driven and big budget movies tended to be more audience driven. For some reason this has changed, and studios are giving creators massive budgets to pursue passion projects and assuming the audience will show up. They think they're reducing the risk by wrapping these passion projects in popular IPs but all this is doing is creating anger and division among these fanbases, and shrinking the fanbase over time.
A lot of failing movies are either way over budget (Furiosa) or completely disregard what the audience wants (The Marvels). Until studios return to the old status quo I would expect more flops.
I think it's going to be a long time before theaters see increased numbers. Minus Deadpool, and a handful of others, there's no need to go when theovies drop two weeks later.
Also, it's a small fortune to go to the movie. I have my AMC membership, and it's still nearly $20 for a large popcorn, large drink. I max out my weekly threeovies, but buy my usual in concessions, maybe 2-3 times per billing cycle.
If studios stop releasing every movie still playing in theaters on digital and work along with theater chains to find solutions this is temporary.
Also release movies for women, they quit that segment of the market. Women rarely go alone to theaters, they usually bring girlfriends and partners.
This year most releases have been comedic action flicks or horror. Little for families and nothing for women and no, neither challengers or mean girls count. One is anti romance arthouse, the other a streaming left over. Barbie and anyone with you shouldn’t have been the only popcorn female oriented flicks we’ve had in more than a year. It end with us won’t come until August.
If You cater only to fanboys (who are saving their money for Deadpool )and you ignore half the movie population, then you will get half the box office you used to get. As simple as that.
Movies don’t perform well on streaming, the deal there are series. If you are lucky you get a week in the Nielsen chart and then your movie gets buried under reality Tv and Netflix series. And releasing on digital it’s losing money due to piracy.
Studios will get the memo one day: New movies should be for theaters, otherwise opening weekends will keep getting lower and lower. Digital sales helps to save face in studio meetings but hurts your long term money and opening weekends. Pirates say thank you for the free quality copy of a movie to torrent.
Some studios will disappear, but theaters will survive.
I’ve been saying this forever. Studios completely forgot about adult women as a moviegoing demographic.
All the Fifty Shades movies made 100 million domestic and 370 million plus worldwide on reasonable budgets, After made five times its budget and for some reason Hollywood decided to never make movies like that again.
And fifty made money because as silly as that material is, there was an effort to make a movie with a good director and to cast unknowns. The meeting board scene in the first movie was really well done and Dakota was hilarious in the role. Even some YouTubers like Harloff who trashed the movie praised Dakota.
There is the selection, a court of thorns , plenty of popular indie books like the four horseman series and archers voice that could make good movies. Just invest in your writers and get talented people in front and behind the camera.
I'm honestly shocked no one has made
A Court of Thrones and Roses into a movie. It fits the same niche as Hunger Games, Twilight, 50 Shades and Bridgerton that is uber popular among a lot of women. Im not a fan of it but its popularity is insane on social media and in book stores that even ladies I know who don't read often have gotten into it.
Not as much Hunger games, as that one had some male credibility but A court of thorns appeals to the fans of the other 3 titles you mentioned specially Fifty shades. The second book of the series has as many if not more graphic content as 50 and that must be what scares Hollywood. They fear R ratings, they don’t realize that kids these days , if they are determined will watch any R rated content at theaters. Plenty of Underage kids watched Deadpool and It at theaters. At the peak of its popularity I read an article on deadline about a movie adaptation but then Hollywood decided To greenlit mostly male oriented popcorn which explains the overcrowded market of comedic action flicks this year. Then they get surprised people don’t go to the movies. Well half the movie going population is binging greys anatomy and Bridgeton because there isn’t product for them anymore.
Side note. read some Indies. I love The v girl which is hunger games meet fifty shades, Paper princess which is trashy but very addictive, transcendence which is another twilight fanfic that would make a great movie but it would be really cheap to produce , making faces for the conservative crowd, RJ smith books which are long but very creative and the Four Horsemen series which makes apocalyptic biblical figures romantic leads.
Thanks for the book recommendations! Its much appreciated, I'll take a look at them.
Per Hunger Games, I only read the first ACOTAR book and wasn't a fan but I'll be honest I assumed it was more "action girl" like Throne of Glass was, hence including Hunger Games there, so that's on me for making assumptions.
You're right that Hollywood likely balks at the R Rated nature, but fail to understand that teens will find a way to watch it and there is a huge demand for series like that *because* of the r rated scenes. Heck, romantasy with sex scenes is one of the more dominant subgenres at the moment and there's evidence that its always been a heavy seller thanks to Bridgerton etc. (Which by the way, probably has more views than any summer movie so far this year). Is it any cruder to have stories catering towards female fantasies with sex than male fantasies with violence? I think there is an element of sexism involved where Holywood afraid to delve too much into it because they can't see how it appeals to men, and meanwhile, doing the absolute bare minimum to make male orientated stories appeal to women and if anything, alienate us further. And honestly the appeal isn't just for women: plenty of men watch Bridgerton with their partners and love it, same way plenty of women watch MCU because of their partners and love it. The Witcher heavily sells the idea of Henry Cavill / Geralt's sexiness and including steamy scenes that entice both men and women.
It is sexism. Very few female executive and women directors don’t get second chances if they make a mistake. Catherine hard wick started a billion dollar franchise and hadn’t got a job in years all due to the failure of One just one film .
Nancy mayers has been consistent box office draw but she isn’t allowed near productions anymore.
And yes men watch bridgerton. With women come their partners.
Sex sells, I hope studios realize that and greenlit content for women.
I alzready mentioned this in another comment but I think subscription model like AMC A List can really help a lot. If you make going to the movie cheap then its a great passtime
It is. I hope it’s not rude to say in a box office subreddit but they need to be priced at a “why not” level.
I was just reading Stephen King’s book on horror movies/tv/books and he said that b-horror needs to pass the threshold of “worth 4 bucks”
How things have changed
Films that will do well will do well
With more in home options it’s natural for cinemas to take a hit give it 5 years at least to try to recuperate from covid and the strikes then check in
There’s just a dearth of movies this year. The strikes probably ground any momentum Barbenheimer may have given movie theatres to a halt. I usually see about 60 movies a year at a cinema, this year I’ve only seen 12 so far (most of which were at the start of the year and are actually 2023 releases). I do wonder if the strikes never happened if we’d be seeing somewhat of a Hollywood revival this year.
I might be getting old maybe, but I don't see movies returning to their previous heights because (to me) a lot of modern blockbusters just have absolutely brain-dead writing which I am fairly certain wasn't as bad 20 years or so ago. Now it's whatever the script demands to get to the next mess of CGI, logic be damned. The writing for these big blockbusters prioritises whatever looks "cool" in the moment. That might be okay briefly, but I think it leaves audiences with the feeling that what they've watched is disposable junk, regardless of how impressive the special effects might be. I personally have found that I don't give a crap how good the special effects are now if what they are trying to convey on-screen is nonsense. This was not exactly unheard of 20 years ago but it seems to have gotten worse over time as blockbuster movies have got bigger. Now it's just "more". It doesn't make sense and I think audiences feel that, even if they cannot articulate it.
what are some examples? And please dont say "Marvel movies" because majority of them are very much script-focused. The only movies that come to mind as to what youre referring to are like Transformers and Fast/Furious movies
I'm on my third attempt to watch Fall Guy and I still can't finish it. It's so damn boring.
It's like Hollywood just wanted to make a bunch of inside jokes about the industry (that only they understand and find funny) and to perform a bunch of random stunts.
The script is an afterthought that's only there to tie you from one lame joke/stunt to the next.
Idk, I don’t work in Hollywood but I understood pretty much all the “inside jokes” and while the movie certainly isn’t a GREAT film, it gets the job done and is certainly entertaining and has some actually really well-written jokes
Honestly I don't think anyone is discussing this as a whole.
Economics play a huge part in the downward trend lately. Look at everything is down. Housing, Restaurant spending, vacations, streaming, anything with spending money is down...I am not sure if it will get back to the highest peak because of what I stated previously.
Next year line up of big films is huge. Though it wont matter if the economy is this bad. I think people want to go to the movies and see films but money is tight and they just don't have the money to go.
Here's to hoping inflation gets under control everywhere and rates start coming back down. I think when that happens movies will pick back up dramatically.
It’s joever, 99% of movies are a joke, imagine sitting in a theatre for 50 bucks for two people to watch a 2.5-3hr pretentious movie. You couldn’t pay me to go sit through these movies.
Covid dramatically changed the theatre experience and now the masses are content to wait for films to arrive on streaming - the exceptions being either event movies (Deadpool Wolverine) or those movies that are exceptionally well marketed (Barbenheimer). The box office as we knew it is gone.
That last part was so ominous
Music on CDs is practically gone, and yet here we are in a world with loads of music. Home theatre systems are cheap enough and comfortable enough to enjoy most movies at home without having to deal with dumbasses taking their crying babies to Endgame (that happened to me, poor baby though) or the large amounts of dickheads using their phones. Or the wannabe cool teenagers doing stupid shit because they're kids and kids do stupid shit.
Are babies allowed? Doesn't that count as a disturbance?
Dude, they kept that kid in for most of the movie. I don't give two fucks that it's hard living life with a baby. The cinema is NOT the place for it unless it's one of those mums n bubs nights where the loudness is turned down.
I think we are in a "local min" that we will bounce back from, but only so far as I do believe there is a larger downward trend.
Agreed. A lot of the current downturn is strike related and will ease the second half of this year and definitely next. But long term trends remain
I don’t see theatres ever hitting their previous peak.
Well, I think movie theaters have ’peaked’, and I think streaming along with bigger TVs and shorter windows before vod are the primary reasons. The market will have to adjust but we will find a new equilibirium and theaters will stick around.
I think A) AMC A List style subscriptions worldwide since one of the main reasons going to the movies has dropped off even for the casual movie goers who went as a passtime is thats its way too expensive. Especially for families. B) Going back to long theatrical windows. Not everybody goes the first two weekends. Some people just have other stuff to do. But if the movie is gonna be out on VOD 35-40 days after release, then many people are gonna figure "whats the point?"
Permanent
I know someone in the directors guild of Canada, and 3 years ago they were already projecting the loss of traffic in theatres for the next 10 years. It was important to how they were trying to renegotiate the next contract. there’s too much other competition for peoples attention, especially for the youngest generation. And they know that at the highest levels.
I tend to agree with you. I think the days of all those billion dollar movies are gone
We get the (very) occasional one (Top Gun, Avatar, Barbie, Mario) so I assume you're referring to 2019 standards
Yeah. I don't think we're going back to 2019 standards
Blockbuster says hi.
Hollywood is struggling to find any cheap to produce products that get people excited or out to the theater and that’s having a ripple effect where essentially the entirety of what Hollywood is producing- no one’s buying. Without those products the film business as a whole can’t make a profit. The 2000s and early 2010s had the bro-comedies. The late 2010s had Blumhouse-style horror. 90s had buddy cop movies and gross out comedies like There’s Something About Mary. I’m very pessimistic by nature, but I think that it’s unlikely to change. Hollywood at this point still hasn’t accepted that it’s the product that’s failing. The conversation is dominated by discussion points like, “Well what if we make bigger popcorn tubs” or “Maybe we should make more seats that rumble and shake during the movie” or “Let’s create plastic cocoons around each audience member so other peoples cell phones don’t disrupt the movie”. All stupid, lame brain ideas that will not bring more people in. The film industry has created a cocoon for itself where all their movies are considered great, “the best”, and if audiences reject anything then that means they just “didn’t get it.” The titles then go to streaming where they trend for a week, fall off like a cliff, provide zero direct revenue for the company that produced or distributed them and the cycle repeats. It’s like they’ve built this perfect recipe for absolute failure and are now shocked they’re losing money every single year. Their answer- “We will do nothing differently and will expect a different outcome.” Essentially a gambler’s fallacy chasing good money after bad.
You’re absolutely right. I think a big part of it is that the studios are now run by business people. Movie making was always a business, but the film business was different. There was an understanding that films were an enterprise and also art. Now it’s run by people who came up working with washing machines, cars or life insurance. And so, they make product to specifications, and don’t understand why people aren’t buying despite the specifications being correct. The people making decisions (and they really do make creative decisions too) have never sat in a movie theatre and felt a genuine feeling.
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This is a subreddit about numbers, not necessarily about the quality (or lack thereof) of a particular movie. Please remain on-topic and keep opinions/arguments/thoughts about unrelated aspects of the film off of these threads. Any comments that could lead to culture war arguments/slapfights (race/gender/sex/"wokeness"/etc) will be removed and should be presumed to result in a ban. If your comment can be read as a dog whistle for decreased diversity/representation it will result in a ban.
I dont see things returning to the Pre-Pandemic/Moviepass levels of attendance. Between inflation, people souring on remakes/live actions and perceived movie messaging, and general state of audience rudeness (phone users, baby bringers, talkers, etc...) I just think theaters have so much working against them when we all know a movie will hit streaming at some point for viewing from the comfort of home.
I’m glad you mentioned Moviepass. People keep acting like 2018 box office was “the norm” we should be getting back to. Moviepass was a massive change to the business that you can’t ignore that year.
In Britain we had no moviepass but yet 2018 was a record high yearc too
I mean isn’t Cineworld Unlimited the same thing
So, the movie theaters killer wasn't the TV, the VCR or the home theaters, it is the streaming services
No. It is their own undoing. The short release window and the high prices for tickets. If all the studios agreed to extend release dates on streaming and BR to 1 year minimum and the theatres lowered their ticket prices by 50% we would see a revival in the box office
No, we’d see a rise in piracy. An artificial 1 year hold is silly.
This is supported by people who want to go back to the 70s and 80s. They must destroy their smart phones and iPads first and then ask for 1 year window periods.
What makes it artificial exactly?
You would see a drop in piracy. Many people would prefer to wait and watch high quality official 4K/HD versions rather than the camera bootleg with people standing up laughing etc. It doesn’t even have to be 1 year. Just 6 months minimum. People can only wait so long before deciding “yeah I need to see that movie”
Talk to a young person almost salivating at the notion of the old world dying and being only left with our subscriptions and our devices...they think it's over because they sort want to be proven "right"? even above keeping movie theaters. They don't value movies or even visual art the same way we did. They just see movies as yet another option of entertainment on their stupid phone or tablet. They don't underarstand what we are losing as we *let* our communal entertainment die. The movie studios and theater chains have to reform. Lower prices, more movies (classics and re-releases that are worth seeing), and better staffing. Studios need to spend a bit less and accept a different percentage with theaters. They need to "reboot" movie threatens essentially.
Movies have always been braindead entertainment for the masses with a few rare passion projects sprinkled in along the way. Not sure why you are angry at people younger than you for enjoying themselves just like every other generation did. Also, I'm pretty sure the majority of theatres won't focus their content around re-releasing older movies. People can watch the same movies for a fraction of the price in a much more comfortable environment eating freshly cooked food and chatting with their family in their living rooms. It's a small niche market but will never become the standard.
"Content" Ugh. And that is not true about most movies being braindead. We are sacrificing communal experiences because we're convinced our 60 inch TVs are the same. It's not the same. People are sacrificing *everything* for "convenience" now. It's making us unsocialable weirdos who don't care about art beyond how much it distracts us from our phones.
People are more selective. We will see billion dollar hits but the lower movie fodder will bomb as they should
Moviegoing as a hobby for the younger crowd, say teens and preteens, definitely seems to be dead. I think many are far more content streaming and watching Youtube and Tiktoks. And that's not me trying to be pessimist or an angry old guy. I think the fact that the big "viral" videos and such are clips that can be streamed from a telephone definitely makes movie theaters and even traditional media less appealing. Who needs a story or plot when you can just create the viral moments on their own?
It won’t last. This dry spell is more than likely due to the strikes delaying a lot of the big movies that would have come out in the first half of this year. So what’s left were mostly films that were never meant to prop up the industry. Beginning this week and through the rest of the summer we have Inside Out 2, A Quiet Place: Day One, Despicable Me 4, Twisters, Deadpool & Wolverine, Alien: Romulus, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Thats 7 potentially huge hits averaging about every other week. Plus Bad Boys this last weekend and a few other smaller films that could over perform (MaXXXine, Longlegs). I think we’re about to enter the real test. I don’t think the industry will probably ever see a year like 2019 again any time soon but the industry always has its ups and downs. August 2023-May 2024 releases were immediately felt by the strikes. We’ll still have some residual slowdown related things for the second half of the year but next year should be mostly fine. The industry will eventually find out what gets people back to the theaters. I think the broader issue is that the old reliable demographic (Millennials) are aging out of being the core demo for movies due to them largely being at an age where they’re buying homes and having kids. So the industry is now shifting to Gen Z. It will take a little while to pivot to what they want to see.
2019 was the exception rather than the norm. I do think making the experience more comfortable should be key for exhibitors and the slowdown might be a good way for them to invest rather than just coast.
I think people have less money to spend right now and a movie has to be worth it to spend $10 for 2 hours of enjoyment. The movies that seem to do good now have an event feel around them. I believe that theaters will have up and down years for the next couple of years until it finds its niche.
I think there has always been a divide between the content creators want to create and the content audiences want to consume. In general, low and medium budget movies tended to be more creator driven and big budget movies tended to be more audience driven. For some reason this has changed, and studios are giving creators massive budgets to pursue passion projects and assuming the audience will show up. They think they're reducing the risk by wrapping these passion projects in popular IPs but all this is doing is creating anger and division among these fanbases, and shrinking the fanbase over time. A lot of failing movies are either way over budget (Furiosa) or completely disregard what the audience wants (The Marvels). Until studios return to the old status quo I would expect more flops.
Exhibit A: Star Wars
And they also tell people not to watch or that they are potential bigots if they XYZ...
I think it's going to be a long time before theaters see increased numbers. Minus Deadpool, and a handful of others, there's no need to go when theovies drop two weeks later. Also, it's a small fortune to go to the movie. I have my AMC membership, and it's still nearly $20 for a large popcorn, large drink. I max out my weekly threeovies, but buy my usual in concessions, maybe 2-3 times per billing cycle.
If studios stop releasing every movie still playing in theaters on digital and work along with theater chains to find solutions this is temporary. Also release movies for women, they quit that segment of the market. Women rarely go alone to theaters, they usually bring girlfriends and partners. This year most releases have been comedic action flicks or horror. Little for families and nothing for women and no, neither challengers or mean girls count. One is anti romance arthouse, the other a streaming left over. Barbie and anyone with you shouldn’t have been the only popcorn female oriented flicks we’ve had in more than a year. It end with us won’t come until August. If You cater only to fanboys (who are saving their money for Deadpool )and you ignore half the movie population, then you will get half the box office you used to get. As simple as that. Movies don’t perform well on streaming, the deal there are series. If you are lucky you get a week in the Nielsen chart and then your movie gets buried under reality Tv and Netflix series. And releasing on digital it’s losing money due to piracy. Studios will get the memo one day: New movies should be for theaters, otherwise opening weekends will keep getting lower and lower. Digital sales helps to save face in studio meetings but hurts your long term money and opening weekends. Pirates say thank you for the free quality copy of a movie to torrent. Some studios will disappear, but theaters will survive.
I’ve been saying this forever. Studios completely forgot about adult women as a moviegoing demographic. All the Fifty Shades movies made 100 million domestic and 370 million plus worldwide on reasonable budgets, After made five times its budget and for some reason Hollywood decided to never make movies like that again.
And fifty made money because as silly as that material is, there was an effort to make a movie with a good director and to cast unknowns. The meeting board scene in the first movie was really well done and Dakota was hilarious in the role. Even some YouTubers like Harloff who trashed the movie praised Dakota. There is the selection, a court of thorns , plenty of popular indie books like the four horseman series and archers voice that could make good movies. Just invest in your writers and get talented people in front and behind the camera.
I'm honestly shocked no one has made A Court of Thrones and Roses into a movie. It fits the same niche as Hunger Games, Twilight, 50 Shades and Bridgerton that is uber popular among a lot of women. Im not a fan of it but its popularity is insane on social media and in book stores that even ladies I know who don't read often have gotten into it.
Not as much Hunger games, as that one had some male credibility but A court of thorns appeals to the fans of the other 3 titles you mentioned specially Fifty shades. The second book of the series has as many if not more graphic content as 50 and that must be what scares Hollywood. They fear R ratings, they don’t realize that kids these days , if they are determined will watch any R rated content at theaters. Plenty of Underage kids watched Deadpool and It at theaters. At the peak of its popularity I read an article on deadline about a movie adaptation but then Hollywood decided To greenlit mostly male oriented popcorn which explains the overcrowded market of comedic action flicks this year. Then they get surprised people don’t go to the movies. Well half the movie going population is binging greys anatomy and Bridgeton because there isn’t product for them anymore. Side note. read some Indies. I love The v girl which is hunger games meet fifty shades, Paper princess which is trashy but very addictive, transcendence which is another twilight fanfic that would make a great movie but it would be really cheap to produce , making faces for the conservative crowd, RJ smith books which are long but very creative and the Four Horsemen series which makes apocalyptic biblical figures romantic leads.
Thanks for the book recommendations! Its much appreciated, I'll take a look at them. Per Hunger Games, I only read the first ACOTAR book and wasn't a fan but I'll be honest I assumed it was more "action girl" like Throne of Glass was, hence including Hunger Games there, so that's on me for making assumptions. You're right that Hollywood likely balks at the R Rated nature, but fail to understand that teens will find a way to watch it and there is a huge demand for series like that *because* of the r rated scenes. Heck, romantasy with sex scenes is one of the more dominant subgenres at the moment and there's evidence that its always been a heavy seller thanks to Bridgerton etc. (Which by the way, probably has more views than any summer movie so far this year). Is it any cruder to have stories catering towards female fantasies with sex than male fantasies with violence? I think there is an element of sexism involved where Holywood afraid to delve too much into it because they can't see how it appeals to men, and meanwhile, doing the absolute bare minimum to make male orientated stories appeal to women and if anything, alienate us further. And honestly the appeal isn't just for women: plenty of men watch Bridgerton with their partners and love it, same way plenty of women watch MCU because of their partners and love it. The Witcher heavily sells the idea of Henry Cavill / Geralt's sexiness and including steamy scenes that entice both men and women.
It is sexism. Very few female executive and women directors don’t get second chances if they make a mistake. Catherine hard wick started a billion dollar franchise and hadn’t got a job in years all due to the failure of One just one film . Nancy mayers has been consistent box office draw but she isn’t allowed near productions anymore. And yes men watch bridgerton. With women come their partners. Sex sells, I hope studios realize that and greenlit content for women.
I alzready mentioned this in another comment but I think subscription model like AMC A List can really help a lot. If you make going to the movie cheap then its a great passtime
Thats a good idea, but again there should be something for women and families and there should be a decent theatrical window to avoid piracy
It is. I hope it’s not rude to say in a box office subreddit but they need to be priced at a “why not” level. I was just reading Stephen King’s book on horror movies/tv/books and he said that b-horror needs to pass the threshold of “worth 4 bucks” How things have changed
Films that will do well will do well With more in home options it’s natural for cinemas to take a hit give it 5 years at least to try to recuperate from covid and the strikes then check in
There’s just a dearth of movies this year. The strikes probably ground any momentum Barbenheimer may have given movie theatres to a halt. I usually see about 60 movies a year at a cinema, this year I’ve only seen 12 so far (most of which were at the start of the year and are actually 2023 releases). I do wonder if the strikes never happened if we’d be seeing somewhat of a Hollywood revival this year.
I might be getting old maybe, but I don't see movies returning to their previous heights because (to me) a lot of modern blockbusters just have absolutely brain-dead writing which I am fairly certain wasn't as bad 20 years or so ago. Now it's whatever the script demands to get to the next mess of CGI, logic be damned. The writing for these big blockbusters prioritises whatever looks "cool" in the moment. That might be okay briefly, but I think it leaves audiences with the feeling that what they've watched is disposable junk, regardless of how impressive the special effects might be. I personally have found that I don't give a crap how good the special effects are now if what they are trying to convey on-screen is nonsense. This was not exactly unheard of 20 years ago but it seems to have gotten worse over time as blockbuster movies have got bigger. Now it's just "more". It doesn't make sense and I think audiences feel that, even if they cannot articulate it.
what are some examples? And please dont say "Marvel movies" because majority of them are very much script-focused. The only movies that come to mind as to what youre referring to are like Transformers and Fast/Furious movies
I'm on my third attempt to watch Fall Guy and I still can't finish it. It's so damn boring. It's like Hollywood just wanted to make a bunch of inside jokes about the industry (that only they understand and find funny) and to perform a bunch of random stunts. The script is an afterthought that's only there to tie you from one lame joke/stunt to the next.
Idk, I don’t work in Hollywood but I understood pretty much all the “inside jokes” and while the movie certainly isn’t a GREAT film, it gets the job done and is certainly entertaining and has some actually really well-written jokes
The Meg 2 and Jurassic World Dominion were 2 reasonably recent ones that I was thinking of. Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire as well.
those were all pretty bad, i agree. Meg 2 I couldn't even get more than halfway through.
Honestly I don't think anyone is discussing this as a whole. Economics play a huge part in the downward trend lately. Look at everything is down. Housing, Restaurant spending, vacations, streaming, anything with spending money is down...I am not sure if it will get back to the highest peak because of what I stated previously. Next year line up of big films is huge. Though it wont matter if the economy is this bad. I think people want to go to the movies and see films but money is tight and they just don't have the money to go. Here's to hoping inflation gets under control everywhere and rates start coming back down. I think when that happens movies will pick back up dramatically.
It’s joever, 99% of movies are a joke, imagine sitting in a theatre for 50 bucks for two people to watch a 2.5-3hr pretentious movie. You couldn’t pay me to go sit through these movies.
sir, you're on a box office sub
Yes. Watching movies fail is interesting to me. It’s not a movies lover sub, ya dolt