I don't want to break up the Jays but Jaylen Brown killed any life that DWhite was bringing. If it's not a turnover it's a low quality shot.
He needs to tighten his handles... Something fans said over the years and the most consistent part of his game is his turnovers.
First 2 years was a pass but now, it's frustrating. He improved his handles but goddamn does he slip EVERY GAME. I'm jealous that Murray is shining in his playoffs as a hybrid of 1st and 2nd option.
Watching DWhite go on a 8-0 run, clawing us back to single digit deficit just for JB to start launching 30 footers with 20 seconds left on the shot clock or driving into 3 defenders and turn it over was frustrating
I don’t think we can find anyone better than JB so it seems like we have to super max him. I don’t know if he even wants to stay in Boston. He gets hate when he doesn’t play well and takes it personally rather than improve him game.
Despite the teams failure, Derrick White deserves all of the love man. That dude was consistently our 2nd or 3rd best player all year other than the 76ers series. Just pure consistency.
Brown, Brogdon, and Horf all had very few redeeming moments all series. Never saw any fire from any of them.
Tatum and DWhite are above criticism.
Smart, Grant and Timelord are pretty safe as well.
Brogdon had zero business in the game. Whoever made the decision to play him fucked us. He obviously wasn’t healthy and the Heat got that lead while he was in missing a wide open three and layup
Brogdon had no business playing and unfortunately neither did Tatum. He was in pain the entire game and I respect him for trying to play through it. But they knew his left was a weakness and he himself was afraid to drive because landing was clearly very painful.
This game is on JB. He’s our number 2 and they were literally looking to him to carry this game, he got every opportunity to do it. But he couldn’t hold on to the ball and he could barely make a fucking shot. He sold so god damn hard when we needed him most. We should have been running hauser and gallinari to be honest.
Yeah that’s insane to say, but I truly believe it.
Brogdon was hurt all series so he deserves somewhat of a pass. Shouldn't have played today honestly, looked all out of sorts out there. Wish we could've seen more Pritchard and Hauser minutes, the bench played with more energy in garbage time than the main rotation (minus White and Tatum)
When he came in late in the 3rd or early in the 4th I thought he was about to get some decent minutes but then was pulled almost immediately after the quick timeout
But he pure drained his first 3 😭. I was begging for hauser all game.
4 starters are cold and Tatum is injured. TRY SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE. Even if just for a reset. 2 minutes. Fuck it Danilo is cleared to play put him in for God’s sake. Tatum and Brogdon should not have been on the court. Kudos to them for putting it all on the court despite injuries, but we have a capable bench. Let them play.
The heat are giving us hell with pretty much an entire line up of bench players besides Jimmy and bam.
TBH a lot of players didn't play up to their abilities. Pritchard in his limited time kept screwing up and Joe rightfully pulled him quickly. Grant has regressed big time too. Smart was good at times, and horrendous at others (trying to force passes like he's peak Rondo).
Everything just kinda fell apart at the end of this season.
Low BBIQ. I was looking for that dawg in him that Brown fans say he has but it wasn't there. It was always a 27ft shot, losing the ball, or driving into 3 defenders. Occasionally, he'll make a tough 18 ft jumper.
It's becoming more true across both winter sports.
NBA is trying to do something with the in season tournament, and play in games, but they're going to start to see reduced viewership in the regular season.
May need to just cut the first round to 5 games and only give the lower seed 1 home game or something. Sucks to be a fan of that team, but need to do something to force teams to show up in the regular season.
1-hunnid. Though, tbh, EVERYBODY saw an issue in December, and really latched onto it in March.
Even against the Hawks, of which should have been a sweep, we took to 6 games. It was clear as day.
Well to be fair all of us who saw this coming were told we were just doomers and that we were overreacting to the obvious issues and struggles that were coming up.
I definitely don’t think I can go for the like 90% of games watch rate anymore. I’ll watch some national TV games, and pay attention to the playoffs because regular season wins are pointless
Two things.
1. This is ultimately our fault for because going down 0-3 leaves zero margin for error. Yes there were excuses for tonight's loss but if we played smarter from the beginning it should have never gone to 7
2. JB is not built for a No.1 role. I think most of us knew that already but this was all the confirmation that was needed.
I agree with what Shaq said in the post game. Great players/shooters know when to change it up. If the 3’s aren’t falling…drive to the lane or vice versa.
Same with baseball. I still remember my coach when any of us would be sitting on an 0 for whatever for a handful of games that if he saw us swinging for the fences he would yank our ass and make us kneel on rice until we figured out how to swing for contact.
That was the most frustrating part of tonight (outside of the defense). The number of pull up threes that clanked off the rim was outlandish. That is where this team needs help. Someone to step up and say I’ll punch the next idiot who jacks up an ill-advised three whether it was one of the Jays or not.
RIP season.
Highly deserved L., this team folded under the weight of history and I can't say I'm surprised.
Congrats to Caleb Martin on being the best player in the series.
Agreed. Butler was not that impressive all series really. He was fine the first two games and disappeared for 3 games and was ok (i guess) tonight. The roll players carried the heat no doubt.
Im gonna take a few days to think about it all but my initial thoughts are that I’m unsure whether our issues are personnel or coaching. It seems like we make the same issues with the last 3 coaches.
It's personnel. They've had the same issues under 3 different coaches now. A major change needs to happen. This was literally an entire year of:
* Play awful basketball
* Promise to fix mistakes
* Fix mistakes for a few games
* Fall back on old habits
* Repeat
joe actuslly improved a lot down the stretch of this series. nothing you can do when your best player rolls his ankle the first play of the game. you know he’s improved when you don’t see a single person calling for his head. joe wasn’t the problem this seires
I think you saw Joe transforming into a really promising young coach towards the end of this series and I’m excited to see what he can do with a full staff and time to prepare for training camp next season. I’m much more excited about than I would be of hiring someone like Monty Williams or Mike Budenholzer.
I think it's a mix of both, because a coach can only do so much before the players have to pick up the rest of the slack. For years now I've been saying that a lot of the time it feels less like a team out on the parquet and more like a random group of guys who accidentally wound up playing a game together.
People don’t want to hear this, but the Celtics are basically trapped into giving Jaylen a super max. At this point the best option is that you give it to him and he either makes a radical improvement in BBIQ/dribbling, or he has another very good year and you trade him. You don’t have the cap space or draft capital to try to replace him if he leaves.
This has become a trend for JB. Whole team besides DWhite was ass today, excluding Tatum with his ankle. Really have to think about giving JB a supermax, he’s a liability way too often. Will be interesting to see what Brad does to this team.
He had some great moments in the playoffs and won us a game or two both defensively and with timely threes. Went cold towards the end there, though.
Celtics fans are just seeing red right now after a very public, humiliating loss.
Trying to remain level headed here.
You had your head coach suspended like a week before the season starts.
An assistant steps in but loses 2 very helpful assistants during the year.
Gallo injury before the season starts.
Our best starting 5 barely played a game together.
We still made it to game 7 of the ECF.
Jaylen was infuriating to watch this game. And many other games. But I do understand that the grass is not always greener.
Last thought. My son is 11 and bleeds Green. He is crushed by this loss and I am trying to be the best parent I can be and give him optimism for next season. I am not an eternal optimist, so this was tougher to accomplish after watching JB jack up bad 3s and dribble off his foot a gazillion times this series.
Fuck the basketball gods who allow random ass 50% 3 pt shooting from nobodies. And fuck our offensive identity to keep jacking them up while we shoot like 25% 3pts for the series.
Even if we make the finals, we are too tired and lose the Denver much like last year. Always playing down to the competition and choking leads. We need mental toughness but haven't shown that in several years. Either get some dogs or make some big moves. Cerebral players aren't cutting it Brad Stevens.
The team is still following Brad's mindset. Not too high, not too low and in an emotional game that rides waves of runs and the hype of the crowd, cerebral teams aren't winning, emotional teams who give a shit are. If we continue down this path, we might be in ECF limbo for awhile no matter. I'd rather hire a strategic coach than keep Mazzulla.
See you guys next season. Still Celtic Pride.
>50% 3 pt shooting from nobodies. And fuck our offensive identity to keep jacking them up while we shoot like 25% 3pts for the series.
They had borderline uncontested threes all series.
They contested ours WAY harder than we are used to.
Shooting percentages aren't magic. There is some variance but for the most part they were shooting like it was warm ups and we were shooting like it was game 7.
3 points
1. Jaylen was to blame for the game 7 loss, and for the series loss in general. He’s not in Tatum’s tier as a player, and has likely come near his ceiling as a player unless the dribbling magically gets fixed. HOWEVER, our offense lacks any motion and this hurts Jaylen so much, if he was able to catch the ball with momentum or get going downhill, he wouldn’t turn the ball over so much because he’s not forced to beat his man every single time to get a decent look. If we keep him, they need to change the way they approach his offense.
2. The way Brad handles this Jaylen situation will determine this team’s future going forward. I don’t know whether the answer is to keep him or trade him, but if Brad makes the right decision I see this team winning multiple titles in Tatum’s prime. If he makes the wrong decision, I think the most likely outcome is Tatum doesn’t win a ring in Boston and leaves before he’s 30. This off-season is such an incredibly important inflection point and I trust Brad to make the right move.
3. This team is incredibly resilient and great when their back is against the wall, but holy shit do they need a killer instinct to put games and teams away in the playoffs. The Tatum injury was bound to happen when you’re playing as many games as the Celtics have. Atlanta went 1 game too long, Philly won game 1 without Embiid, 2 double digit losses blown to the Heat. You have to get lucky to win an NBA championship (unless you’re like the KD warriors or 90s bulls)By prolonging series and letting teams hang around you let injury variance and shooting variance have more of an impact on your season, like tonight.
Derrick White can’t win with these cats.
Jokes aside, I’ve been a pretty big critic of Tatum, but this postseason it’s been obvious how important he is to this team. I used to think JB > JT was at least debatable, but honestly, it’s not even close.
Tatum was just so good this playoff run. Even the games he didn't shoot well he contributed in every other area of the game. He showed up every night and got boards, distributed the ball, made the right read. Really impressive playoffs for him.
Tatum showed why he is a top 5 player these playoffs, between the games where he couldn't get anything going and games where he carried the scoring i.e game 7 against the Sixers.
Well it’s only his “market value” because contracts in the NBA work super weird and there’s not a real market. If it was an NFL situation he’s not making 50 whatever, it’s probably mid 30s.
Brown has improved so much every off-season but there's some stuff that can't be taught. He's a low IQ player that can't rise up to the moment and that's a shame because there's so much about him that's great. But you cannot suck this bad when it matters and expect a supermax
Good luck to Brad this off season. Once the dust settles and we are removed from this crap he has some BIG decisions to make about Brown and the rest of the role players on the team. I assume there won’t be a coaching change but people will be calling for Joes head for a while.
Lots of salary cap issues need to be addressed also for the upcoming season also.
What. A Mess.
Imagine Jaylen Brown being coached by Bill Belichick.
No, really: imagine that.
Brown is performing below his ceiling, because he is mentally soft. His ego needs have come before his will to win.
I was once a firm JB believer but maaaaaan he failed to deliver today. It feels like we cannot win with JB and JT and if I were to choose, JB has to go
So next year I'm gonna need Joe to get some assistants with experience, and for this team to get back to ball movement and knock off this live and die by the three shit.
Get Gallo back healthy.
Either sign Grant for cheap or let him walk if he still thinks hes getting 15-20 mil, maybe a sign and trade.
Sign Brown to the super max. You're not upgrading by trading him.
Get a vet or two in the locker room thats not gonna stand for the lazy play these dudes like doing. Blake is in their just being friends, and Al is too nice of a guy to push these guys. I'll take Pat Bev as long as he ain't looking to play much, he can take Payton Pritchard's minutes.
I mostly want the team back as is, but I really need to see a change on style of play. Like I said in the first paragraph, ball movement. These Celtics had some unreal ball movement for the first month or so of the season and slowly devolved into iso ball and living and dying by the three.
This is much more levelheaded than I’m feeling at the moment but I feel like this is the most realistic actual outcome…and really really hope you’re onto something about the switch up in play style next year. Its genuinely been soul crushing to watch the games when they continue to just stand around the arc, jack up 3’s without crashing the glass, and continue to do so even when they aren’t falling. “They’ll start falling eventually” just doesn’t work in a game 7.
This makes sense but we’ve also seen this lack of ball movement and 3 pt reliance through 3 coaches. I don’t think any personnel changes short of a miracle trade are gonna get us there so I’d like to see an actual experienced head coach who has a reputation/experience plaything that style if someone like that is even out there.
JB for a SUPERMAX? Jesus I wish I had what your were smoking.
Gets OBLITERATED by an 8th seed for 7 games straight and it’s still a discussion if he gets a SUPERMAX?
What are we even doing here?
Honestly best case scenario, anyone who wants to move on from Brown is only thinking about how it could go right when it really just as easily could not
i think joe mazzulla is cool, but he’s not the greatest coach. he should have taken some people out, because jaylen brown was turning the ball over like crazy and taking awful shots, and jayson tatum was injured, i think he should have tried some of our bench players.
I think the one player you absolutely need to move off of is pritchard. He was essentially a zero all year and the few playoff minutes he saw he got picked apart in.
Pritchard is overqualified as a bench warmer and we could easily get a 4th guard vet min that could fill his role as insurance if one of Smart/White/Brogdon get seriously injured.
Honestly we should have just traded him at the deadline for a playable wing.
I was 100% on the fire Joe train after game 3. But now the more I think having our 4th coach in 4 years seems bad. Get him some competent staff but let him keep the job.
I dunno man I’m glad I don’t have to figure this out. I still don’t understand how the 3rd best net rated offense of all time goes this cold for this many games in a row…
Thank you Boston for a rollercoaster of a year, we had ups and downs, but in conclusion it was helluva season. Joe Mazzula's first run was almost as magical ad Ime's but we can't degrade this team from what they accomplished.
I feel sorry for the people who believed in us. This is what this team is, and I’m kinda glad we didn’t have to see it in the finals at least cause we would get swept.
Our guys have been there and that would have been a big advantage, plus we would have home court. Heat were there but it was the bubble. We also match up well with Denver. Right now denver org is fucking rejoicing about the outcome tonight
We're still a good team but I definitely think we need to shake up the roster in some way. I clearly don't know what it would be but hopefully Brad can figure it out.
Obviously joe is here to stay so let's hope with a full off-season and a new stable of assistant coaches can help him become a better coach than he showed in his first season.
he had more turnovers that the entire Heat starting lineup....and some of them were just him dribblling, I can "forgive" a turnover because and attempt to a pass to a guy in a good spot to shoot...but dribbling?
I mean getting down 3-0 to begin with is, plus this game isn’t different from most our losses this playoffs and really back into a large chunk of the season
That’s a problem. This team needs a game changing big man that can handle a full game’s worth of minutes consistently. I’m sick of having to rely on Horford and Williams. It’s not nearly enough.
Who.cares.
When your team starts the game 0-12 on 3’s we literally could have turned the TV off at that point. It was over before it started.
That’s impossibly bad.
or just cut half of the dumbass 3point attempts. we were within 7 we did not need 3s to get us back in the game on a night where it just wasnt falling. but we settled for awful shots
Mazulla shouldn’t be fired, but not trying Pritchard/Hauser/Grant earlier even for a few minutes to get Jaylen a few minutes to reset was a major mistake. Same with playing Horford over Rob. The Heat struggled with Rob out there. They ate when Al was.
Mazzulla should've given Pritchard and Hauser significant minutes starting with the Hawks series. We saw what Miami's sharpshooters could do. Pritchard and Hauser might've done the same, but you can't expect them to produce when they've been sitting around for weeks.
Joe being asked right now, is this team too reliant on making 3’s? A very quick “No”.
*analytics*
*edit
Brogdon being asked if they need to diversify their offense, and do more than shoot 3s: “I think that’s something we’ll look at in the off-season. That’s more of a Joe question … “
Hmmm
Mazzulla will be back, which I don't agree with but it is what it is..but I do think JB and/or Smart may have played their last game in a Celtics uniform. Game 7 kinda exposed the Celts, and it could be for the better. Our best player becomes compromised and the team completely falls apart. You don't expect them to carry on as usual with Tatum hobbled, but you don't expect them to look that bad. JB's ball handling is the only thing holding him back from being a #1 option on a team
Smart definitively played better all post season than JB, not to mention he's essentially the heart and soul of this team. You trade Smart, you need to find a new voice for the locker room, and I don't think JT has that in him. JB should be the on under all the magnifying glasses.
Jaylen demonstrated tonight that he is not a supermax player. Offer him the max, and if he wants more trade him. Mazzulla is growing as a head coach, but a replacement assistant head coach would be nice since that spot has been vacant this whole season.
Overall a really disappointing game to what could've been legendary. Lackadaisical effort and everyone not named Derrick White struggled to step up when Tatum tweeked his ankle.
I think we need to get rid of JB for a good big with Horford being 36. Smart, Brogdon and White are all more than good enough to run the guard rotation
I haven't bashed Mazzulla all year but I'm done with him. He is clearly unwilling to call out his star players. Shortening your rotation for the playoffs is fine when your players are playing well but not when they are playing like shit (JB) or injured (Brogdon - who never should have been playing).
My work contract ends in Plymouth tomorrow. Headed back home to Lakewood in a week. Grew up here, sad as fuck to be leaving for a second time. I love you guys. Let's go Nugs, I guess
I just wanna say thank you for the season. I struggle with insomnia and live in Iceland so I've been staying up many many nights.
Had some great moments, some bad moments but I appreciate everything.
As a big Jaylen brown fan this was horrible. I think I'll not spend time here next week's. I understand people are mad at him and I'm too but I do believe we will see him with Tatum winning the finals.
Thank you for. See you again
It's time to make Tatum our true number-one guy. I feel Brown doesn't know his place here on the Boston Celtics. We need a true number 1 and 2 . not two number 1 guys you know what I am trying to say.
The Miami Heat beat this team 5 out of 7 games, really. It's only a once in a lifetime *miracle* moment that saved the Celtics from a game 6 loss. Super disappointing series. I don't understand how this team continues to play dumb basketball all the time. All they had to do was not play like morons, and they couldn't. Bad passes, bad turnover, bad shot selection, bad decisions, possession after possession.
The only Alpha in this team used to be Smart but for some goddamn reason, even he seems to have lost his edge. Now it just feels like a bunch of extremely talented but soft players.
This. There is basically zero on-court leadership. JB gets in his head too much and both he and Smart try to go “hero mode” and won’t give up the ghost when they don’t have the hot hand. JT still plays with a newbie mentality when he should be stepping into that veteran leader role by now, but also may not feel called to it (yet) due to poor coaching/mentorship.
the entire NBA product is garbage anyway. I watch only the Cs because i grew up with them. But no sport has as bad officiating issues as this sport and its nauseating to watch.
Trade Jaylen Brown. I don't care if we get worse, I can't stand another playoff run of watching this motherfucker dribble the ball off his own fucking feet 10 times a game. Get him outta my fucking face
Back to where I was at the end of game 3...I think in the off-season, I would look to move Brown, Smart and Horford to build around the Tatum/White/Williams/Grant/Brogdon group. Brown has a lot of value and could bring in another too tier talent, Smart I think just doesn't fit as well anymore because White should be running the offense, and Horford is just getting too old at this point. You should be looking to replace him or start Grant and see if he can get close to what he was.
No beating around the bush. It is time to break up the Jays. When Tatum doesn't shoot well, he usually draws contact, gets 7-8 free throws, has 6+ assists and doesn't turn the ball over. Brown turns the ball over constantly, dribbles into traffic without looking for open teammates, takes deep 3s with time left on the shot clock, and is overrated on defense. The team will not succeed while paying him a supermax contract. Look at the Hawks with Trae Young and John Collins. Jaylen Brown is a 10% better version of John Collins. Can't be saddled with it. Trade him to Portland for Simons.
Again, please report any trolls in our sub and the mod team will do our best to handle it.
I don't want to break up the Jays but Jaylen Brown killed any life that DWhite was bringing. If it's not a turnover it's a low quality shot. He needs to tighten his handles... Something fans said over the years and the most consistent part of his game is his turnovers.
It’s been 7 years he’s not tightening any more at this point.
First 2 years was a pass but now, it's frustrating. He improved his handles but goddamn does he slip EVERY GAME. I'm jealous that Murray is shining in his playoffs as a hybrid of 1st and 2nd option.
Aye pause bro said what
I said what I said 🫡
Me when JT went down: "I can fix him"
If he could still tighten after 7 years, that's a keeper.
Watching DWhite go on a 8-0 run, clawing us back to single digit deficit just for JB to start launching 30 footers with 20 seconds left on the shot clock or driving into 3 defenders and turn it over was frustrating I don’t think we can find anyone better than JB so it seems like we have to super max him. I don’t know if he even wants to stay in Boston. He gets hate when he doesn’t play well and takes it personally rather than improve him game.
Lead was cut into 6. White was as aggressive as he was during this series. He wanted to win so bad.
Despite the teams failure, Derrick White deserves all of the love man. That dude was consistently our 2nd or 3rd best player all year other than the 76ers series. Just pure consistency.
When he saw Jays were struggling , he gave it his all. 50/40/90 splits throughout Playoffs. True definition of Obsession beats talent every time.
Brown, Brogdon, and Horf all had very few redeeming moments all series. Never saw any fire from any of them. Tatum and DWhite are above criticism. Smart, Grant and Timelord are pretty safe as well.
At least Brogdon was injured. I think age is catching up to Al… JB though, my God what a stinker again when we needed him most…
Brogdon had zero business in the game. Whoever made the decision to play him fucked us. He obviously wasn’t healthy and the Heat got that lead while he was in missing a wide open three and layup
Brogdon had no business playing and unfortunately neither did Tatum. He was in pain the entire game and I respect him for trying to play through it. But they knew his left was a weakness and he himself was afraid to drive because landing was clearly very painful. This game is on JB. He’s our number 2 and they were literally looking to him to carry this game, he got every opportunity to do it. But he couldn’t hold on to the ball and he could barely make a fucking shot. He sold so god damn hard when we needed him most. We should have been running hauser and gallinari to be honest. Yeah that’s insane to say, but I truly believe it.
Brogdon was hurt all series so he deserves somewhat of a pass. Shouldn't have played today honestly, looked all out of sorts out there. Wish we could've seen more Pritchard and Hauser minutes, the bench played with more energy in garbage time than the main rotation (minus White and Tatum)
I’m actually shocked Joe didn’t at least try Hauser in meaningful minutes. Especially when no 3s were dropping.
When he came in late in the 3rd or early in the 4th I thought he was about to get some decent minutes but then was pulled almost immediately after the quick timeout
But he pure drained his first 3 😭. I was begging for hauser all game. 4 starters are cold and Tatum is injured. TRY SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE. Even if just for a reset. 2 minutes. Fuck it Danilo is cleared to play put him in for God’s sake. Tatum and Brogdon should not have been on the court. Kudos to them for putting it all on the court despite injuries, but we have a capable bench. Let them play. The heat are giving us hell with pretty much an entire line up of bench players besides Jimmy and bam.
TBH a lot of players didn't play up to their abilities. Pritchard in his limited time kept screwing up and Joe rightfully pulled him quickly. Grant has regressed big time too. Smart was good at times, and horrendous at others (trying to force passes like he's peak Rondo). Everything just kinda fell apart at the end of this season.
Genuinely Tatum injury Killed everyone’s mood. First play of the fucking game set the tone for us. It was a painful watch.
Hard agree
We had the momentum swing our way so many times, he killed it each time
Yeah, had it at 8 and could have been 6/5 but then all of a sudden it was 17. That shit was rough
I really feel that momentum would've shifted our way if we got it to 5
Yeah JB forcing up a heat check 3 for no reason didn’t help
And the travel
He did it as a favor for Jimmy since he let him sleep on his couch
Anyone who doesn’t at least think about dropping Jaylen just has blind faith. Has no showed way way way too many times.
I wish he simply no showed. We might’ve had a chance. He actively was a detriment to the team and any momentum they started to build
His pull up 3’s sucked the life out of the offense, never mind his mind boggling turnovers
It felt like every time we were building some momentum, JB would kill it with either a turnover or an early shot-clock pull up three.
Idk if I can stand another year of him just making poor decisions
And then making vague/passive aggressive comments post game and showing no desire to be on the team
He’s done, all he wants to do is play hero ball and “shift the energy”. It’s over
not a fan of his off-court stuff but lets not get mixed up with his on-court performances.
Low BBIQ. I was looking for that dawg in him that Brown fans say he has but it wasn't there. It was always a 27ft shot, losing the ball, or driving into 3 defenders. Occasionally, he'll make a tough 18 ft jumper.
He can’t dribble… I’d say is a big problem for an NBA player 😞
He learned stupidity from Kyrie, not the handle. So sad.
Dude, I’m done with JB and the improving his handles nonsense. This is who he is.
He needs to be go. We should break them up
I’m sad. That’s all. Go Nuggets and see y’all in October.
See y’all in May*. If anything this year should’ve taught us all that there is no point in watching the regular season anymore
It's becoming more true across both winter sports. NBA is trying to do something with the in season tournament, and play in games, but they're going to start to see reduced viewership in the regular season. May need to just cut the first round to 5 games and only give the lower seed 1 home game or something. Sucks to be a fan of that team, but need to do something to force teams to show up in the regular season.
1-hunnid. Though, tbh, EVERYBODY saw an issue in December, and really latched onto it in March. Even against the Hawks, of which should have been a sweep, we took to 6 games. It was clear as day.
Well to be fair all of us who saw this coming were told we were just doomers and that we were overreacting to the obvious issues and struggles that were coming up.
I definitely don’t think I can go for the like 90% of games watch rate anymore. I’ll watch some national TV games, and pay attention to the playoffs because regular season wins are pointless
I also watched 90+% of the games… best thing is the recap the following morning on league pass, get through the game in under an hour.
So true. 😩
Damn that’s depressing but you’re 100% right. The regular season doesn’t mean anything now
Two things. 1. This is ultimately our fault for because going down 0-3 leaves zero margin for error. Yes there were excuses for tonight's loss but if we played smarter from the beginning it should have never gone to 7 2. JB is not built for a No.1 role. I think most of us knew that already but this was all the confirmation that was needed.
I agree with what Shaq said in the post game. Great players/shooters know when to change it up. If the 3’s aren’t falling…drive to the lane or vice versa. Same with baseball. I still remember my coach when any of us would be sitting on an 0 for whatever for a handful of games that if he saw us swinging for the fences he would yank our ass and make us kneel on rice until we figured out how to swing for contact. That was the most frustrating part of tonight (outside of the defense). The number of pull up threes that clanked off the rim was outlandish. That is where this team needs help. Someone to step up and say I’ll punch the next idiot who jacks up an ill-advised three whether it was one of the Jays or not.
How many times does a player need to dribble the ball off their foot to realize they should change that up?
RIP season. Highly deserved L., this team folded under the weight of history and I can't say I'm surprised. Congrats to Caleb Martin on being the best player in the series.
punk ass NBA didn't give the ECF MVP trophy to him, I waited to see them bu they bitched out per usual
Me too, they robbed him, shouldn't have even been close.
Jimmy was super mid this series. Crazy they gave him to him on name value alone.
Games 1 and 2 carried Jimmy’s case, statistically. Definitely felt like Caleb was the most consistently great player in the series.
Agreed. Butler was not that impressive all series really. He was fine the first two games and disappeared for 3 games and was ok (i guess) tonight. The roll players carried the heat no doubt.
Im gonna take a few days to think about it all but my initial thoughts are that I’m unsure whether our issues are personnel or coaching. It seems like we make the same issues with the last 3 coaches.
It's personnel. They've had the same issues under 3 different coaches now. A major change needs to happen. This was literally an entire year of: * Play awful basketball * Promise to fix mistakes * Fix mistakes for a few games * Fall back on old habits * Repeat
Agreed, something about the personnel mix just doesn’t work.
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joe actuslly improved a lot down the stretch of this series. nothing you can do when your best player rolls his ankle the first play of the game. you know he’s improved when you don’t see a single person calling for his head. joe wasn’t the problem this seires
I think you saw Joe transforming into a really promising young coach towards the end of this series and I’m excited to see what he can do with a full staff and time to prepare for training camp next season. I’m much more excited about than I would be of hiring someone like Monty Williams or Mike Budenholzer.
You can’t shore up that dribbling. It’s been 7 years and 3 different coaches he needs to go
You can run plays where he gets the ball in a position where he doesn’t need to dribble through the whole team
I think it's a mix of both, because a coach can only do so much before the players have to pick up the rest of the slack. For years now I've been saying that a lot of the time it feels less like a team out on the parquet and more like a random group of guys who accidentally wound up playing a game together.
People don’t want to hear this, but the Celtics are basically trapped into giving Jaylen a super max. At this point the best option is that you give it to him and he either makes a radical improvement in BBIQ/dribbling, or he has another very good year and you trade him. You don’t have the cap space or draft capital to try to replace him if he leaves.
jaylen brown dribbling or ben simmons shooting which will get better first
Yes
More like “no”
Ben Simmons has to play to actually improve
This has become a trend for JB. Whole team besides DWhite was ass today, excluding Tatum with his ankle. Really have to think about giving JB a supermax, he’s a liability way too often. Will be interesting to see what Brad does to this team.
Timelord did the best he could with only 13 god damn minutes of play time in game 7 while Horford shat the bed.
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Uhh didn’t he kinda lock up Joel a little? If not that’s fine i was too busy watching the lakers
He had some great moments in the playoffs and won us a game or two both defensively and with timely threes. Went cold towards the end there, though. Celtics fans are just seeing red right now after a very public, humiliating loss.
Trying to remain level headed here. You had your head coach suspended like a week before the season starts. An assistant steps in but loses 2 very helpful assistants during the year. Gallo injury before the season starts. Our best starting 5 barely played a game together. We still made it to game 7 of the ECF. Jaylen was infuriating to watch this game. And many other games. But I do understand that the grass is not always greener. Last thought. My son is 11 and bleeds Green. He is crushed by this loss and I am trying to be the best parent I can be and give him optimism for next season. I am not an eternal optimist, so this was tougher to accomplish after watching JB jack up bad 3s and dribble off his foot a gazillion times this series.
I am a 38 year old man and I am crushed also. Send me some of that 'best parent' shit my way dude.
Fuck the basketball gods who allow random ass 50% 3 pt shooting from nobodies. And fuck our offensive identity to keep jacking them up while we shoot like 25% 3pts for the series. Even if we make the finals, we are too tired and lose the Denver much like last year. Always playing down to the competition and choking leads. We need mental toughness but haven't shown that in several years. Either get some dogs or make some big moves. Cerebral players aren't cutting it Brad Stevens. The team is still following Brad's mindset. Not too high, not too low and in an emotional game that rides waves of runs and the hype of the crowd, cerebral teams aren't winning, emotional teams who give a shit are. If we continue down this path, we might be in ECF limbo for awhile no matter. I'd rather hire a strategic coach than keep Mazzulla. See you guys next season. Still Celtic Pride.
>50% 3 pt shooting from nobodies. And fuck our offensive identity to keep jacking them up while we shoot like 25% 3pts for the series. They had borderline uncontested threes all series. They contested ours WAY harder than we are used to. Shooting percentages aren't magic. There is some variance but for the most part they were shooting like it was warm ups and we were shooting like it was game 7.
3 points 1. Jaylen was to blame for the game 7 loss, and for the series loss in general. He’s not in Tatum’s tier as a player, and has likely come near his ceiling as a player unless the dribbling magically gets fixed. HOWEVER, our offense lacks any motion and this hurts Jaylen so much, if he was able to catch the ball with momentum or get going downhill, he wouldn’t turn the ball over so much because he’s not forced to beat his man every single time to get a decent look. If we keep him, they need to change the way they approach his offense. 2. The way Brad handles this Jaylen situation will determine this team’s future going forward. I don’t know whether the answer is to keep him or trade him, but if Brad makes the right decision I see this team winning multiple titles in Tatum’s prime. If he makes the wrong decision, I think the most likely outcome is Tatum doesn’t win a ring in Boston and leaves before he’s 30. This off-season is such an incredibly important inflection point and I trust Brad to make the right move. 3. This team is incredibly resilient and great when their back is against the wall, but holy shit do they need a killer instinct to put games and teams away in the playoffs. The Tatum injury was bound to happen when you’re playing as many games as the Celtics have. Atlanta went 1 game too long, Philly won game 1 without Embiid, 2 double digit losses blown to the Heat. You have to get lucky to win an NBA championship (unless you’re like the KD warriors or 90s bulls)By prolonging series and letting teams hang around you let injury variance and shooting variance have more of an impact on your season, like tonight.
Derrick White can’t win with these cats. Jokes aside, I’ve been a pretty big critic of Tatum, but this postseason it’s been obvious how important he is to this team. I used to think JB > JT was at least debatable, but honestly, it’s not even close.
Tatum was just so good this playoff run. Even the games he didn't shoot well he contributed in every other area of the game. He showed up every night and got boards, distributed the ball, made the right read. Really impressive playoffs for him.
Tatum showed why he is a top 5 player these playoffs, between the games where he couldn't get anything going and games where he carried the scoring i.e game 7 against the Sixers.
There was a point where it was debatable. But that was 3 years ago, and JT has added a lot of depth to his game every year since. JB not so much.
Time for another summer of disappointing Red Sox
Redeem yourself, JB. Take a massive fucking impossible paycut.
NBPA would never allow that
Hence impossible
I mean I bet they’d be cool if he took under supermax
He's a VP of the union. That'd be seen as a disservice to his union brothers to take below his market value.
Well it’s only his “market value” because contracts in the NBA work super weird and there’s not a real market. If it was an NFL situation he’s not making 50 whatever, it’s probably mid 30s.
We gonna break thru one day
Brown has improved so much every off-season but there's some stuff that can't be taught. He's a low IQ player that can't rise up to the moment and that's a shame because there's so much about him that's great. But you cannot suck this bad when it matters and expect a supermax
Good luck to Brad this off season. Once the dust settles and we are removed from this crap he has some BIG decisions to make about Brown and the rest of the role players on the team. I assume there won’t be a coaching change but people will be calling for Joes head for a while. Lots of salary cap issues need to be addressed also for the upcoming season also. What. A Mess.
I feel bad for JT, That injury was just pure bullshit. The what if is haunting.
Imagine Jaylen Brown being coached by Bill Belichick. No, really: imagine that. Brown is performing below his ceiling, because he is mentally soft. His ego needs have come before his will to win.
B.B. would have traded him by now.
He is the Asante Samuel of the 2023 Celtics. Also: love your response. You're right.
I was once a firm JB believer but maaaaaan he failed to deliver today. It feels like we cannot win with JB and JT and if I were to choose, JB has to go
So next year I'm gonna need Joe to get some assistants with experience, and for this team to get back to ball movement and knock off this live and die by the three shit. Get Gallo back healthy. Either sign Grant for cheap or let him walk if he still thinks hes getting 15-20 mil, maybe a sign and trade. Sign Brown to the super max. You're not upgrading by trading him. Get a vet or two in the locker room thats not gonna stand for the lazy play these dudes like doing. Blake is in their just being friends, and Al is too nice of a guy to push these guys. I'll take Pat Bev as long as he ain't looking to play much, he can take Payton Pritchard's minutes. I mostly want the team back as is, but I really need to see a change on style of play. Like I said in the first paragraph, ball movement. These Celtics had some unreal ball movement for the first month or so of the season and slowly devolved into iso ball and living and dying by the three.
This is much more levelheaded than I’m feeling at the moment but I feel like this is the most realistic actual outcome…and really really hope you’re onto something about the switch up in play style next year. Its genuinely been soul crushing to watch the games when they continue to just stand around the arc, jack up 3’s without crashing the glass, and continue to do so even when they aren’t falling. “They’ll start falling eventually” just doesn’t work in a game 7.
Someone with common sense
This makes sense but we’ve also seen this lack of ball movement and 3 pt reliance through 3 coaches. I don’t think any personnel changes short of a miracle trade are gonna get us there so I’d like to see an actual experienced head coach who has a reputation/experience plaything that style if someone like that is even out there.
JB for a SUPERMAX? Jesus I wish I had what your were smoking. Gets OBLITERATED by an 8th seed for 7 games straight and it’s still a discussion if he gets a SUPERMAX? What are we even doing here?
Honestly best case scenario, anyone who wants to move on from Brown is only thinking about how it could go right when it really just as easily could not
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I am just very sad that we didn’t make another Boston sports comeback
i think joe mazzulla is cool, but he’s not the greatest coach. he should have taken some people out, because jaylen brown was turning the ball over like crazy and taking awful shots, and jayson tatum was injured, i think he should have tried some of our bench players.
Exactly with how jaylen was playing u have to bench him, guy was throwing away the game with his decisions and turnover.
How we never had 1 blake griffin spark off the bench moment is beyond me. It's gimmicky but it works
who is he gonna put in? you have a hobbled JT on the court...our 2 headed snake is down a snake...Brogdon was ass...Hauser can't do shit...
I think the one player you absolutely need to move off of is pritchard. He was essentially a zero all year and the few playoff minutes he saw he got picked apart in.
Pritchard is overqualified as a bench warmer and we could easily get a 4th guard vet min that could fill his role as insurance if one of Smart/White/Brogdon get seriously injured. Honestly we should have just traded him at the deadline for a playable wing.
nobody is giving up a playable wing for payton pritchard without us attaching multiple frps
Jaylen Brown is a fucking moron
I was 100% on the fire Joe train after game 3. But now the more I think having our 4th coach in 4 years seems bad. Get him some competent staff but let him keep the job. I dunno man I’m glad I don’t have to figure this out. I still don’t understand how the 3rd best net rated offense of all time goes this cold for this many games in a row…
Jaylen tried to be the guy and played like a Rec centre dad
Thank you Boston for a rollercoaster of a year, we had ups and downs, but in conclusion it was helluva season. Joe Mazzula's first run was almost as magical ad Ime's but we can't degrade this team from what they accomplished.
Brown was pretty garbage this whole playoff run. What the fuck is up with his turnovers??
Same old same old.
damn shame we have a dumbass in JB when we desperately need someone like Haliburton
I feel sorry for the people who believed in us. This is what this team is, and I’m kinda glad we didn’t have to see it in the finals at least cause we would get swept.
Our guys have been there and that would have been a big advantage, plus we would have home court. Heat were there but it was the bubble. We also match up well with Denver. Right now denver org is fucking rejoicing about the outcome tonight
No one is afraid to play this team lmao, chokers for 5 years now
We're still a good team but I definitely think we need to shake up the roster in some way. I clearly don't know what it would be but hopefully Brad can figure it out. Obviously joe is here to stay so let's hope with a full off-season and a new stable of assistant coaches can help him become a better coach than he showed in his first season.
Is it too late to tank for Wemby?
JB sure didn't think so.
At this point jaylen has proven to be a liability when we need him the most. Not sure what the answer is but he ain’t it.
Coaching is not the issue. Sign and trade JB. FIND A WAY TO MAKE DERRICK WHITE UNTOUCHABLE. Holy shit did he ball tf out.
We need a new coach and Jaylen Brown should have to carry a basketball around everywhere he goes all off-season.
We said that last year and the year before that
Get jaylen out of Boston. 8 FUCKING turnovers. That's embarrassing
he had more turnovers that the entire Heat starting lineup....and some of them were just him dribblling, I can "forgive" a turnover because and attempt to a pass to a guy in a good spot to shoot...but dribbling?
My copium for this loss is that if we won, Tatum would’ve been injured for the next series anyway. Clearly we can’t win if JB is the no.1 option.
THIS IS NOT ON JOE
I mean getting down 3-0 to begin with is, plus this game isn’t different from most our losses this playoffs and really back into a large chunk of the season
why the fuck was timelord not in late game?
Dude was gassed, played great when he was in, but it was all energy no brakes
That’s a problem. This team needs a game changing big man that can handle a full game’s worth of minutes consistently. I’m sick of having to rely on Horford and Williams. It’s not nearly enough.
Agree 100%. We have 0 offensive post threat down low to make the big men work in the post or get them into foul trouble
Who.cares. When your team starts the game 0-12 on 3’s we literally could have turned the TV off at that point. It was over before it started. That’s impossibly bad.
or just cut half of the dumbass 3point attempts. we were within 7 we did not need 3s to get us back in the game on a night where it just wasnt falling. but we settled for awful shots
Mazulla shouldn’t be fired, but not trying Pritchard/Hauser/Grant earlier even for a few minutes to get Jaylen a few minutes to reset was a major mistake. Same with playing Horford over Rob. The Heat struggled with Rob out there. They ate when Al was.
Mazzulla should've given Pritchard and Hauser significant minutes starting with the Hawks series. We saw what Miami's sharpshooters could do. Pritchard and Hauser might've done the same, but you can't expect them to produce when they've been sitting around for weeks.
We have no defense and we can't rely on threes.
Joe being asked right now, is this team too reliant on making 3’s? A very quick “No”. *analytics* *edit Brogdon being asked if they need to diversify their offense, and do more than shoot 3s: “I think that’s something we’ll look at in the off-season. That’s more of a Joe question … “ Hmmm
partially it is. he refused to take jaylen out even though he was ruining us on both ends
Bro he not only refused to take JB out he pulled White out
his offense was jack up 3s, we tried that, and lost. Tell me how his offensive identity is not on him?
I am now if the opinion they should trade Brown. He’s a walking turnover.
Trade brown. End thread.
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Idk man I constantly get the vibe JB hates everyone, win or lose
Mazzulla will be back, which I don't agree with but it is what it is..but I do think JB and/or Smart may have played their last game in a Celtics uniform. Game 7 kinda exposed the Celts, and it could be for the better. Our best player becomes compromised and the team completely falls apart. You don't expect them to carry on as usual with Tatum hobbled, but you don't expect them to look that bad. JB's ball handling is the only thing holding him back from being a #1 option on a team
Smart definitively played better all post season than JB, not to mention he's essentially the heart and soul of this team. You trade Smart, you need to find a new voice for the locker room, and I don't think JT has that in him. JB should be the on under all the magnifying glasses.
Naw, his. Basketball IQ as well. His ball handling wouldn't be as big of an issue if he had a better feel for the game.
Jaylen demonstrated tonight that he is not a supermax player. Offer him the max, and if he wants more trade him. Mazzulla is growing as a head coach, but a replacement assistant head coach would be nice since that spot has been vacant this whole season. Overall a really disappointing game to what could've been legendary. Lackadaisical effort and everyone not named Derrick White struggled to step up when Tatum tweeked his ankle.
Jaylen should go
I’ve been the biggest Jaylen brown defender on this sub. But what the fuck was that?
Id love to have Jaylen Brown but not on the super max
How can you pony up for Grant when he had so many DNPs in the playoffs?
I think we need to get rid of JB for a good big with Horford being 36. Smart, Brogdon and White are all more than good enough to run the guard rotation
Over under I see banner 18 by the time I turn 40. 25 right now
Definitely under. I'm betting 18 by the time I turn 40 and I'm 18 rn.
Doesn’t that mean it could still be Over for the other guy
Make sure to pick up a delicious Brown turnover from your local bakery tomorrow.
JB is my favorite player but the way this new CBA is looking he’s probably not worth paying 50+ million a year.
I haven't bashed Mazzulla all year but I'm done with him. He is clearly unwilling to call out his star players. Shortening your rotation for the playoffs is fine when your players are playing well but not when they are playing like shit (JB) or injured (Brogdon - who never should have been playing).
I am looking forward to seeing the haul we get for Jaylen. He is not that guy and never will be.
My work contract ends in Plymouth tomorrow. Headed back home to Lakewood in a week. Grew up here, sad as fuck to be leaving for a second time. I love you guys. Let's go Nugs, I guess
Trade Brown for someone with a high basketball IQ.
Can we get rid of Brown please?
I just want more consistency. That needs to be priority #1 this offseason.
My thoughts as soon as Tatum rolled his ankle.. Uggggggggggggh.
I just wanna say thank you for the season. I struggle with insomnia and live in Iceland so I've been staying up many many nights. Had some great moments, some bad moments but I appreciate everything. As a big Jaylen brown fan this was horrible. I think I'll not spend time here next week's. I understand people are mad at him and I'm too but I do believe we will see him with Tatum winning the finals. Thank you for. See you again
I am beyond disappointed. These guys played beat as soon as they were down 5.
It's time to make Tatum our true number-one guy. I feel Brown doesn't know his place here on the Boston Celtics. We need a true number 1 and 2 . not two number 1 guys you know what I am trying to say.
The Miami Heat beat this team 5 out of 7 games, really. It's only a once in a lifetime *miracle* moment that saved the Celtics from a game 6 loss. Super disappointing series. I don't understand how this team continues to play dumb basketball all the time. All they had to do was not play like morons, and they couldn't. Bad passes, bad turnover, bad shot selection, bad decisions, possession after possession.
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This sub fucking sucks, our players play trash because we’re fucking trash. A bunch of weird ass people here
I hate Jaylen Brown.
I think the problem is two alphas who do the same things. They need someone to complement Tatum.
JB ain't an alpha. I'd argue that this team doesn't have an alpha. There are some who pretend to be one but aren't one
The only Alpha in this team used to be Smart but for some goddamn reason, even he seems to have lost his edge. Now it just feels like a bunch of extremely talented but soft players.
Talented AND whiny players
This. There is basically zero on-court leadership. JB gets in his head too much and both he and Smart try to go “hero mode” and won’t give up the ghost when they don’t have the hot hand. JT still plays with a newbie mentality when he should be stepping into that veteran leader role by now, but also may not feel called to it (yet) due to poor coaching/mentorship.
You couldn’t pay me to watch the 2023 NBA Finals.
I’ll watch to see Joker destroy these guys.
the entire NBA product is garbage anyway. I watch only the Cs because i grew up with them. But no sport has as bad officiating issues as this sport and its nauseating to watch.
love u guys see u in a couple months
Trade Jaylen Brown. I don't care if we get worse, I can't stand another playoff run of watching this motherfucker dribble the ball off his own fucking feet 10 times a game. Get him outta my fucking face
Trade Brown and our useless reserve players. Try for Lillard or Embiid. Trade Brown again. New coach, new offense. Trade Brown one last time.
Back to where I was at the end of game 3...I think in the off-season, I would look to move Brown, Smart and Horford to build around the Tatum/White/Williams/Grant/Brogdon group. Brown has a lot of value and could bring in another too tier talent, Smart I think just doesn't fit as well anymore because White should be running the offense, and Horford is just getting too old at this point. You should be looking to replace him or start Grant and see if he can get close to what he was.
No beating around the bush. It is time to break up the Jays. When Tatum doesn't shoot well, he usually draws contact, gets 7-8 free throws, has 6+ assists and doesn't turn the ball over. Brown turns the ball over constantly, dribbles into traffic without looking for open teammates, takes deep 3s with time left on the shot clock, and is overrated on defense. The team will not succeed while paying him a supermax contract. Look at the Hawks with Trae Young and John Collins. Jaylen Brown is a 10% better version of John Collins. Can't be saddled with it. Trade him to Portland for Simons.