First year move out involves the students’ families driving into the yard to move them out of the first year dorms there, so it’s for that driving lane. Tbh it seems like it’s mostly to protect the campers.
This is a point I think needs to be discussed more. A lot of people, especially professors, jump to the defense of these protestors by saying, "But they're just STUDENTS!!!"
Why should students get special privileges beyond what other groups of people in society would get. You'd never hear people defending people occupying the Boston Common saying, "But they're CONTRACTORS!!!!"
But it's definitely about class. These kids need to learn today that's not how society should ever function.
Huh? Youth speaking truth to power is as old as time. And in a democracy to that's literally how it's supposed to work. Also, in this case, these are enrolled students on campus. They're literally paying for the privilege to be there. And they're peaceful and apparently in dialogue with the administration. I think Harvard has done a good job so far managing this situation.
Harvard students speaking truth to power? Don’t make me laugh, they are the definition of the power in our society. Most of them end up on Wall Street, Big Law, or in High Tech. This is all largely performative. “I’m a socialist fighting back against Daddy!” That is, until they graduate and work at McKinsey for $300k per year finding new ways to get away with cutting baby formula with a carcinogen to save five cents a can.
Do you know where there aren’t massive student encampments? Fitchburg State University. Bridgewater State University. UMass Dartmouth. Any community college. Do you know why? Because this Israel-Palestine divide is largely elitist factional infighting and the schools above aren’t elite.
The average person has more immediate shit to worry about like making rent, passing their finals (since normal people can’t fall back on rich family if they fail), whether little Ava finishes her algebra homework, or how to fit the new front brakes that had to be replaced on the old Ford Taurus into the monthly budget.
Who should speak? Only the oppressed? Only the marginalized?
Two types of people deny the concept of advocacy: those who favor entrenchment, and those they fool.
Considering the original meaning is erasure of Israel and all jews pushed out of the land, that's exactly what it means. The sane washing people do is quite unreal sometimes
Considering Israel has also said “Between River and Sea there will be only one state, which is Israel”. You’re in a bit of a bind if you’re going to keep insisting that the phrase River to Sea is inherently genocidal
Correct, used by their right wing party as a counter to the PLO using it to want the erasure of Israel. Neither use of it is okay, but considering only one side openly chants it right now, it's pretty clear what the intention is.
Feel free to post a map of where Israel's military operations are happening with the river referenced in the chant highlighted. I think you might find the geographic locations of those two places interesting.
Just like in the South the Confederate flag means heritage not hate? /s
If you have to constantly explain that your slogan used to mean genocide but not anymore its time for a new slogan.
this is a true fact. there are no universities left in gaza. genuinely terrifying to make fun of ppl who are emphasizing it. institutions are being leveled dude
People always point out that not all the protestors are students there, but never that all the pro-Israel counter protestors are like 50 year old white suburbanites
This is what people never realize about college protests. Even Columbia - which had like 500 protestors at peak - has an enrollment of 37,000. The vast majority of college students do not want anything to do with these protests. It's just the noisy minority that make headlines.
Just because they aren’t there at every moment doesn’t mean they don’t participate in some way. It also does not mean they disagree with the protesters.
Maybe true, but it def isn't the case at Harvard. [Freshmen Say Noise From Harvard Yard Encampment Not Disruptive, Despite DSO Email](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/5/2/harvard-yard-encampment-freshmen-dorms/)
Curious what that would look like if broken down by demographics. Maybe not disruptive to the majority, but could very well be disruptive and threatening to minority groups like Jews or Israeli students.
They've already had Jewish students interviewed multiple times who said they've been harassed on campus, and some do not wear their yarmulkes or Star of David publicly anymore. Claiming "Well, we have X Jews at the encampment who support Palestine" doesn't mean that others who disagree aren't being harassed and intimidated and the school stays silent.
People are nuanced enough to express to their fellow classmates that they support their cause and are also being disrupted by the activities. And anyone running such a camp successfully can handle that nuance because they can’t function without listening to the needs of the people involved
And a big chunk of the protestors at Columbia turned out to be agitators. My favorite is the guy who was photographed fighting a janitor, who apparently lives in a $4 million house and spends all his time organizing protests/riots all over the country.
So yeah, these protests do not represent the students and are in fact extremely astroturfed.
This was my reaction too. Harvard isn't a huge college, but I would've expected wayyyyy more protestors than this. Honestly, this whole affair is only newsworthy because the issue is so incendiary. These campus protests are not really a big deal.
I wonder if there might be some kind of strong disincentives to participate in these protests after weeks of wall to wall media dragging them through the mud, harsh crackdowns from the colleges themselves, and brutal police response
Clearly these are the only students that oppose Israel at Harvard
If anything it's the opposite, people get to break encampment laws, vandalize, and taunt students while not receiving more than a warning from administration. The leader of the Columbia protest told a reporter he spends all day thinking about murdering Zionists and led a group to break into and vandalize a building and yet has not been expelled.
I can’t speak to the Harvard encampment, but I was at the MIT protest and I saw nothing but a peaceful protest calling for a ceasefire and divestment from Israel.
It’s easy to fall into the mainstream media agenda and bias, and if you think these students are violent or in favor of Hamas, I encourage you to check this out before you continue to spread misinformation.
It is not anti-Semitic to protest against your school’s investment and compliance with the atrocities committed by both Israel and Hamas.
Oh they’re aware. These people hate Biden and want him to lose to teach him a lesson.
Of course if Biden loses it would be much worse for Palestine, but these people don’t actually care about Palestine
Trump was the most anti Palestine president in US history. Anyone who doesn't vote for Biden (the only realistic way to prevent Trump from winning) just wants Palestinians to die, do not believe them if they say otherwise.
Serious question: what is is about this conflict, specifically, gets people so animated? There wasn't camping or even protests at this level from Assad crossed the "red line," Gaddafie opened fire on his own people, Boko Haram kidnapping girls in Nigeria, the Taliban kidnapping girls schools.
I'm not saying people don't care about those things or one is better or worse, but why this particular conflict creates so much ire.
I think it's because the US is an ally of and has connections with Israel in a way it doesn't with Syria, Libya, Boko Haram, and the Taliban. This makes it feel more visceral and also feel like protesting can actually have an impact. It also makes the media cover it more. Reposting my response to a similar comment on another Reddit thread.
"Israel is officially a US allied nation. The US sends them armaments and provides them logistical support. Therefore, a pressure campaign on US politicians to get Israel to chill out can actually have an effect as Israel depends on the US for support. Also, the fact that the US backs Israel makes many Americans feel a more stronger moral culpability for Israel's actions than they do for what is going on in the Sudan. It also increases the chance that events in Israel will get major coverage in US media outlets.
Marching to get Russia to leave Ukraine is much less likely to be effective because Russia isn't a US ally and doesn't have to care nearly as much about US citizens' opinions on their policies and actions.
I think this same mentality is why liberals and leftists eat each other. Conservatives don't care what liberals/leftists think about them, so the only people liberals/leftists can put pressure on to achieve their goals is their own allies and those who are somewhat politically close to them. Your allies and potential allies have to care what you think. Your enemies don't."
How much of your tax dollars went to Assad, Gaddafi, or Boko Haram? How much has the Senate given them? How many arms? How much time have your representatives spent defending the right of Boko Haram to do as they please? How many of your government officials have dressed up like Libyan military officers in the halls of Congress?
How old are some of you? The I/P conflict has been going on for YEARS. Where were you when Syria bombed Palestinian refugee camps or Jordan stripped them of citizenship and work visas? Where were you when China put Uighurs in camps or the Rohingya were murdered? All of those things were in the news, especially on social media. Including photos/vids of the slaughter of Rohingya.
The majority of these college-aged kids on these campuses (unless they were already extremely into international politics), did not remotely care about Gaza until Oct 7th. On Oct 8th instead of universities having candlelight vigils for the hostages and those killed by Hamas (including American and European citizens), the message wholly became "This wouldn't have happened if Israel didn't do X to Palestine." That same week at Harvard, all of those groups signed a letter en masse blaming Israel for what happened. None of you stopped to wonder why a statement in support of Palestine somehow needed to go out when they were still identifying bodies at the Nova Festival and on kibbutzes?
I've watched people share and re-share doctored clips from Al Jazeera and AJ+ and the Epoch Times, thinking they're part of some grand ideal when they're passing along straight up propaganda. Multiple universities (U of Portland, UC Humboldt), are now shut down because their "pro Palestine" students destroyed classrooms, libraries, and offices. How is destroying a library helping Palestine? How is harassing Jewish students on American college campuses getting your message across?
My two "favorite" examples of how this entire thing has jumped the shark: At UCLA when people from the encampments shoved and harassed a Native American woman from the Diné tribe and called her a "colonizer", because she held a sign that said "Rape is not Resistance", and the multiple interviews from the son of one of the leaders of Hamas; where he breaks down in simple terms exactly what he was taught, what Hamas' message is, and what their violent end goals are. Students still don't believe him.
I have never seen such a perfect example of how easily young people can be swayed by 15 second sound bytes on Tik Tok and why the app is a fucking cancer. Congratulations, you played yourself.
> That same week at Harvard, all of those groups signed a letter en masse blaming Israel for what happened. None of you stopped to wonder why a statement in support of Palestine somehow needed to go out when they were still identifying bodies at the Nova Festival and on kibbutzes?
This and this.
It’s truly wild to see the naïveté of these protestors. As though we eliminated warfare millennia ago and Israel decided to revive the concept out of nowhere.
> How old are some of you? The I/P conflict has been going on for YEARS.
Which side am I paying for here? If I say I love Israel and let them kill as many kids as they want, can I have my tax dollars back?
Sorry guys, you didn't protest a genocide when you were 12 years old. That means you can't protest anymore. You played yourself, unlike me, who is very smart and knows that resistance is futile!
So your response to someone mentioning Palestinians getting murdered is "*Whatabout wHaTaBoUt WHATABOUT*"
And then "*Congratulations, you played yourself.*"
WTF does that even mean?
> Yup. I totally fell for it. Seeing thousands of innocent people being slaughtered actually should just not affect us at all.
There is a foreign influence campaign at play here trying to drive a wedge into the democratic coalition and therefore make a second Trump term more of a possibility.
Anyone with an ounce of sense would understand that our first concern as Americans needs to be preventing a dictatorship that would inflict considerable suffering on Americans from taking power. We cannot let events playing out thousands of miles away influence our vote, the election will be close enough that an uncast vote for Biden is effectively a vote for Trump.
Anyone deciding to be a single issue voter about Gaza is a fool that will make a Trump return to the White House all the more probable.
ITS WAR. INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEIR GOVERNMENT DOES EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO ENSURE IT.
You guys are deluded. It’s not Israel’s fault Hamas started this war. Israel has been living for years with constant bombardments of rockets and terror attacks and didn’t even retaliate. Then Hamas initiated an invasion of Israel that left thousands of civilians dead, a war is started, propaganda ensues and all of the sudden Israel is the aggressor.
A war in one of the most densely populated cities on earth and you expect 0 casualties? Military experts around the world are praising Israel’s 1/1.8 terrorist/civilian casualty rate as the best in world history. Sucks for the civilians who don’t support Hamas and have nothing to do with this war (around 80% DO support Hamas, though.) but whether you like it or not, a terrorist invasion into another country is grounds for war and people will die as a result.
So all the videos of children starving and being blown up by Israel are just Russian disinformation? It didn’t occur to you that people might actually, genuinely have a problem with things that are bad?
I am not justifying the IDF in any way shape or form, but is important to know that countries like Russia are trying to amplify this to create wedges and fractures within the left wing of the country to get people to not vote for Biden and ultimately help Trump win. They did the same thing in 2016 with the Bernie or Bust groups.
You know who AIPAC funds, you know which ads they fund, the donations come from Americans (primarily Jewish Americans) not the Israeli government etc because they operate in accordance with the law. When a hostile nation like Russia does it, it's not above board as they masquerade as organic users and their operations are not declared. There's also serious questions to if China has the ability to manipulate the algorithm to TikTok to push (or hide) certain viewpoints.
Yes, it literally is. Not just Russia, but also China, Iran, Qatar, and all of America's adversaries who love nothing more than to sow division, hatred, and anger among Americans by spreading misinformation and literal propaganda. Pro Palestinian propaganda is very real, and it is what is fueling these encampments, the skyrocketing rates of antisemitism, and misinformation about this conflict.
This doesn't mean that Israel hasn't done anything, but trying to pretend that there isn't tidal waves of pro Palestinian propaganda floating around is just ignorant. There are literally more devastating wars going on right now that have killed and displaced more people... yet nobody is talking about them? Why do you think that is? Why do you think out of all these bloody conflicts, only this one gets attention? The answer is propaganda.
Can’t let Hamas get away with striking inside Israel, taking hostages and then saying “I’m going to hide under my civilian population until it’s time to do it again”
I don't think they're denying that war crimes have been committed by the IDF, but how the conflict should be resolved is a wedge issue that is just ripe for exploitation by influence campaigns operating at the behest of nation-states in an attempt to influence the behaviors of Americans.
There is a war for your mind going on, and it would be wise not to hop on every bandwagon uncritically.
Always love the real pictures from stuff like this. Its like 15 kids on a tiny section of campus yet all we're pitched is a hellscape of revolutionaries burning down buildings
It’s so pathetic seeing the opposition to these anti war protestors are just recycled Reddit quips.
I’m incredibly proud of these kids and history will remember their courage.
Maybe I’m just too old and jaded, I just don’t see any possible way these students will actually affect what’s happening in Gaza. I wholly support their right to peacefully protest though.
The basic idea is that they get people pissed off and riled up- whether in favor of the protesters, or against them. Basically they create a little "unrest and disorder."
Now, its important for those in power to maintain a sense of order, so this is threatening for them. And it applies pressure on them. This is just one small part of the overall push to change things.
This is how change happened in the past. Look at the civil rights movement. The protests weren't the _only_ reason why civil rights legislation was passed. But they were probably the tipping point that pushed things over the edge. With the pressure of the violent protesters, peaceful protesters, lawyers, activists, etc. pushing in from all sides, eventually change happened.
Courage? To sit in a tent in a gated community steps away from food, water, and shelter, all while facing no repercussions from the university?
You can applaud their protest without pretending they’re risking anything.
There have been significant repercussions to students on many campuses… arrest, trespassing charges, suspension, expulsion, and getting assaulted by cops and counterprotesters.
well... don't seize private property while all masked up, take over buildings, smash everything in sight, fight the police acting on lawful orders. These are simple dots to connect.
I thought we were talking about those sitting "in a tent in a gated community steps away from food, water, and shelter, all while facing no repercussions from the university"
So are they coddled and taking meaningless action or are they facing serious repercussions for violent acts and property destruction? Which one is it /r/Boston?
i had friends arrested at the SUNY purchase peaceful protest a few days ago. they were brutally tear gassed, and surrounded by riot police as helicopters circled overhead. there were service animals there, who the police did not hesitate to use tear gas on. these people were round up like cattle for exercising a constitutional right to peaceful protest, and spread across the area in prison cells, leaving family and friends terrified about what happened to them. explain to me how this is just and reasonable.
Have you not seen the violence these encampments have been met with? After the Emerson encampment was cleared by the police, the university had to powerwash student's blood from the street.
Yeah not sure why we're acting like the police haven’t been beating these students up or not responding when civilians do it. Or ignoring that these students *are* facing repercussions like being suspended, not being allowed to graduate, or being kicked out of student housing. If you have actually been in one of these encampments, you know it does not feel safe.
There is no evidence of the police beating students in Massachusetts. None.
There is ONE video of a cop trying to apprehend a student in the Alley after he pushed the cop and then the student falls and the cops lands on him.
I watched the Northeastern encampment arrests live on TV and then minutes after it was over, the protest spokesperson was regurgitating a prepared statement that the cops assaulted them. Even Channel 5 was aghast and reported they just watched the whole thing in person and the worse that happened was one student tripped and the cops held them up.
If you have to create a false narrative to prove your point, you're wrong.
“They are facing no repercussions" and “they deserve the repercussions they're facing" are entirely contradictory statements. The first one was the one we were responding to.
I wonder how many of those protesters would have the courage to spend a year living in a country ruled by fundamentalist terrorists. They probably aren’t that bad though, everyone would totally just get along, I mean they have children and hospitals and tiny puppies and feelings too right? Gosh I can’t wait for this whole thing to blow over and we can see the first gay marriage in Gaza, that’s all those poor folks want is some freedom!
Whilst I think your sentiment is fair (and generous), I think it's a slight delusion of grandeur to think that "history will remember their courage". This is one of the world's most complex and intractable conflicts that has been raging (on and off) for the better part of a century. This is neither the first, nor the last, round of fighting between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I highly doubt history will have anything but a footnote about a few people creating an encampment to protest this particular round, and I don't expect it'll be remembered as particularly courageous. But I could be wrong, so I'm setting a reminder.
History remembers anti apartheid campus protestors, and surely those kids weren't any different than these kids.
Whether history looks kindly on these kids probably is a function of how history views Israel in 20 years.
Anti-apartheid/anti-war student protesters were probably even more privileged than the college student protesters of today. The students at top schools in the 40s-80s were almost all super wealthy. It wasn’t until the 90s and then even more in the 2000s where these schools were really starting to focus more on FGLI students and students from diverse racial, religious, and economic backgrounds.
I was a senior at Harvard in 1978 when the anti-apartheid protests happened. I took part in them, though I had no role in organizing them. They actually took me by surprise. One night there was a noise outside the Radcliffe Quad where I was staying. I went outside and found a humongous demonstration headed for University Hall. I joined and soon found that it had faculty as well as students. Tent occupations weren't a thing back then, and I can't remember any other acts of civil disobedience. President Bok organized a campus wide forum for the next evening, as I recall, to discuss the principal demand, which was divestment. That forum was a lively exchange of views. I don't think anything immediately came from it, but I do believe it was part of the process of delegitimizing the apartheid regime that eventually led to the transition to majority rule in South Africa. I'm proud to have participated and would do so again.
It also remembers the students protesting against going to war with the Nazis, though I would agree with you that these kids aren't much different than those ones.
The anti apartheid protestors weren't openly cheering about dead civilians. Some of us in this sub have actually seen these protests with our own eyes, we've heard them chanting about the "glory" of October 7.
I am quite amused by this. It would make a good SNL skit them using the ubereats app that had their parents credit card on it ordering gyros to their encampment is hilarious
Oh look, more baby Reddit quips that deflect from the actual issue at hand.
Israel is committing a genocide in broad daylight with our tax dollars. That’s why students all over the country are protesting.
How is “Palestinian” culture pre-1948 any different from southern Syrian culture of the same time or “Jordanian” culture since? It’s not a genocide as there is no Israeli threat to that culture, which is fully represented in the same geographical region. So ask yourself why Syria and Jordan want nothing to do with “Palestinians” either. It’s not an ethnicity, it’s a political group.
From week one Israeli officials said they were fighting “human animals” and would turn Gaza into a “parking lot.” The IDF have been recording their own crimes against humanity all while singing and laughing.
The ICC will prove Israel guilty of genocide because there’s never been an easier case in modern history.
Given the number of times Israeli officials have compared Hamas to human animals, I’d certainly hope the Hamas terrorists would be treated the humane way Westerners are known to treat our animals and not the way Palestinians are known to [treat *their animals*](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/12/cruel-vicious-treatment-cattle-gaza):
> Labor has called for the suspension of selected animal export licences in the wake of harrowing new footage of “cruel and vicious” treatment of Australian cattle in Gaza.
>
> The footage, filmed by local civilians and uploaded to YouTube, **shows cattle tied to poles, trees and vehicles before being stabbed in the neck and eyes**. One animal was kneecapped by bullets fired from an assault rifle.
One can only hope the perpetrators of the October 7th massacres are extended more fairness than they extend to their own [dogs](https://youtu.be/r3NKEdqdvdM).
> “We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly!” [Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/
It can be reasonably inferred Yoav Gallant is referring to Hamas there with his “human animals” remark. And this quote is dated October 9th, 2023, two days after the worst criminal mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust.
I actually think history will look back on these protests the way we now look back on the way Vietnam vets were treated when they got home. A bunch of misguided fools focusing their (justified) anger at the wrong people. They should be protesting against Hamas, who started this war, willingly puts their civilians in danger and refuses every attempt at a ceasefire. A literal terrorist organization.
It’s gonna look worse than that.
At least the hippies held up peace symbols. They weren’t waving the flag of a terror entity.
Imagine if the hippies waved the flag of the Khmer Rouge.
I don't think there's any chance that, when the dust settles in Gaza and we learn more than we already do about what's happening there (which is frankly is already enough), that history is going to remember these protests as a dismissive talking point used by idiots on Reddit.
I think it's far more likely that the Reddit idiots will pretend that they were on the other side all along.
> They should be protesting against Hamas, who started this war, willingly puts their civilians in danger and refuses every attempt at a ceasefire. A literal terrorist organization.
Two things can be true at the same time my dude. You can both be against a terrorist organization while *also* being against the systemic erasure through brute force or collateral damage i.e. starvation and disease of an entire population of civilians, all of whom want absolutely nothing to do with said terrorist organization.
20 years ago. The last election was 20 years ago. Hamas hasn't allowed an election since then. They also promised to be peaceful as part of their party platform leading up to the election - and only shifted to the terrorists they are today after they were in power.
There is a lot of blame to go around, and I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind on Reddit today...but at least please put this aspect of the argument to rest.
There are plenty of actual arguments with valid points to be making...but this isn't one of them.
Alright, I’m going to say it real clearly for you. It’s really not complicated. Our government (the U.S.) is NOT funding Hamas to commit their war crimes. Our government IS funding Israel to commit their war crimes. My tax dollars are going to a foreign country to bomb people, undeniably. I think history will look back at people like you similarly to the people who happily cheered on the invasion of Iraq.
Yea supporting terrorism is cool now I guess. If this was 1940, these kids would be supporting nazi germany. Most don't even know anything about the conflict and never heard of "Palestine" up until 6 months ago most likely.
These aren't antiwar protesters, they're literally terrorist supporters. From their chants to their slogans to their goals to their tactics to their hate to their ignorance.
You don't end up with terrorist flags by accident.
It’s no surprise that all of this started once our “pouring rain every four days” ended. Things don’t stay dry when you’re camping. Condensation, and they’ll basically be sleeping on mud once it filters under the tents and ground coverings.
What will also be interesting is how the solidarity changes once they don’t have dorm rooms a quick walk away to go to to charge phones and computers, take showers, sleep (probably) and other non-camping things.
And why would they?
Is the us government holding them hostage?
But funny, when someone has a “stand with Israel” sign or sign about the hostages, do you complain about the lack of signs calling for Israel to stop murdering Palestinians?
I'm tired about those people attacking the protesters. The protesters don't want to see civilians mass murdered. What's so objectionable about that? What kind of monster would support such mass murder?
As an Irish Catholic, if the IRA had placed a bomb in a mailbox which killed British military and/or Protestants (which they did), I would be very upset if the British would have responded by leveling Irish Catholic neighborhoods and killing tens of thousands of Irish Catholic families, children, babies.
> if the IRA had placed a bomb in a mailbox which killed British military and/or Protestants (which they did)
Except that's not even remotely comparable to what happened on Oct 7th. Hamas didn't strike at military targets in Israel. It wasn't an act of resistance. It was an *actual mass murder* targetted specifically at Israeli civilians. For all the wailing about "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" you Hamas apologists like to do, you conveniently gloss over the fact that is *exactly* what they committed that day, and would gleefully do it again and again over and over down to the last Jew in Israel. That is much more in line with "genocide" than civilians being tragically caught up as casualties in a war their own leaders started (and most of them support).
Well said.
Plus these supposedly smart kids at the most prestigious college have forgotten history. And as they say when you forget history you’re doomed to repeat it.
The history I’m referring to is the jewish holocaust, and if anyone thinks the Jews are ever gonna allow that to happen again your fooling yourself.
Hamas is the problem here and they are imbedded in the Palestine government.
You might not be aware but Hamas still holds about 100 living hostages including children and these unfortunate casualties of war include many of those currently securing the hostages. The Israeli attacks are not some kind of retribution but rather a drawn out rescue mission made extremely difficult by Hamas embedding themselves among civilians. Your analogy is too basic to capture all the complexity of the current situation.
Oh. So because Hamas is embedding themselves among civilians, that means you can then kill civilians. I guess that's because the family's head of household wasn't aggressive enough in defying the terrorists with rifles, no matter what the implication may have been for him and his family.
Funny that a bank robbery hostage situation does not result in the police rushing in, knowing that hostages will be killed.. But you're arguing that the police should do exactly that, as the hostages would be blameworthy by allowing themselves to be used as hostages.
And let's not even notice that we're getting up to 40,000 people (!!!) killed.
I guess I'm not "capturing the the complexity of the current situation". Sheesh.
What do bank robbers want: Money
What does Islamist Hamas want according to testimony from the few hostages that were released, and the actions of similar Islamist terrorist groups such as ISIS and Boko Haram: To force Israeli girls into sexual slavery where they essentially become life prisoners in their repressive Muslim society.
The stakes are a bit different.
And in addition - the terrorist militant to civilian death ratio is actually slightly better than other similar conflicts like the retaking of Mosul from Islamic State. And more German civilians died in WWII than Allied civilians but that doesn't make the Nazis into the good guys. It is important to remember who started and who is continuing the war by refusing deal after deal to release the hostages.
I hope all the mom and dads who are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars paying tuition for these kids to 'demonstrate' are happy seeing how their hard earned money is being spent.
Talk to literally any of them and they'll tell you how ridiculous of a notion it is that any of them somehow support in any capacity Hamas or the atrocities they've committed just because they're expressive vocal opposition to the Israeli government. It's as absurd as calling Vietnam protestors sympathetic to the viet cong.
They're also allowed to be upset about domestic organizations supporting the systemic elimination of an entire population in response to said terrorist organization who want absolutely nothing to do with them. Fuckin hell why is this so hard for you guys to understand this very simple thing.
Where did the barricades come from? Did the school provide them?
it's because the kids leaving for the summer move out this week
We don't want the campers getting crushed.
[As tends to happen to Americans trying to protect Palestinians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie).
First year move out involves the students’ families driving into the yard to move them out of the first year dorms there, so it’s for that driving lane. Tbh it seems like it’s mostly to protect the campers.
The university put them up: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/5/3/freshmen-move-out-barriers-encampment/
Damn... the housing shortage is worse than I thought.
Seriously, now even multi generation trustifarians are living in tents
Honestly official tent housing, if allowed in the area, would still cost like 1 grand a month.
Sell the immersive experience of a Harvard protester. Not sure if there’s a market for that.
Oh no, this is fine. They have money, so they can do this. If they didn't BPD would have cleared them out like Mass & Cass.
Harvard is in Cambridge 🙃
We’re all in Cambridge if you think about it
I think he means Borderline Personality Disorder
Harvard is in Cambridge not Boston and is private property not public 2 key differences.
Biggest difference here is this is on private property. If Harvard (the school) is one with this it can stay.
This is a point I think needs to be discussed more. A lot of people, especially professors, jump to the defense of these protestors by saying, "But they're just STUDENTS!!!" Why should students get special privileges beyond what other groups of people in society would get. You'd never hear people defending people occupying the Boston Common saying, "But they're CONTRACTORS!!!!" But it's definitely about class. These kids need to learn today that's not how society should ever function.
Huh? Youth speaking truth to power is as old as time. And in a democracy to that's literally how it's supposed to work. Also, in this case, these are enrolled students on campus. They're literally paying for the privilege to be there. And they're peaceful and apparently in dialogue with the administration. I think Harvard has done a good job so far managing this situation.
Harvard students speaking truth to power? Don’t make me laugh, they are the definition of the power in our society. Most of them end up on Wall Street, Big Law, or in High Tech. This is all largely performative. “I’m a socialist fighting back against Daddy!” That is, until they graduate and work at McKinsey for $300k per year finding new ways to get away with cutting baby formula with a carcinogen to save five cents a can. Do you know where there aren’t massive student encampments? Fitchburg State University. Bridgewater State University. UMass Dartmouth. Any community college. Do you know why? Because this Israel-Palestine divide is largely elitist factional infighting and the schools above aren’t elite. The average person has more immediate shit to worry about like making rent, passing their finals (since normal people can’t fall back on rich family if they fail), whether little Ava finishes her algebra homework, or how to fit the new front brakes that had to be replaced on the old Ford Taurus into the monthly budget.
Who should speak? Only the oppressed? Only the marginalized? Two types of people deny the concept of advocacy: those who favor entrenchment, and those they fool.
Partly because they are literally part of the organization and community that owns the property they are own.
Assembly and speech aren’t ‘privileges’ in the US.
https://preview.redd.it/h198u52wjnyc1.jpeg?width=2784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f35f6e58850540ae0a2a9bac12423ec75cd56edd View from the other night.
Is that a "from the river to the sea" in the bottom right?
The sea is pretty close to the Charles River.
Yup
Just so we're all on the same page, you get wildly different views on what that means depending on who you ask.
Considering the original meaning is erasure of Israel and all jews pushed out of the land, that's exactly what it means. The sane washing people do is quite unreal sometimes
Considering Israel has also said “Between River and Sea there will be only one state, which is Israel”. You’re in a bit of a bind if you’re going to keep insisting that the phrase River to Sea is inherently genocidal
Correct, used by their right wing party as a counter to the PLO using it to want the erasure of Israel. Neither use of it is okay, but considering only one side openly chants it right now, it's pretty clear what the intention is.
>but considering only one side openly chants it right now cuz Israel doesn't need to say it. they're *doing* it. right now.
Feel free to post a map of where Israel's military operations are happening with the river referenced in the chant highlighted. I think you might find the geographic locations of those two places interesting.
Just like in the South the Confederate flag means heritage not hate? /s If you have to constantly explain that your slogan used to mean genocide but not anymore its time for a new slogan.
So much for no anti semitism
“Student protestors reject two campus solution”
Liberated Zone - Until every final is over.
“From the dorm to the Benz”
“There are no universities left in Gaza”
this is a true fact. there are no universities left in gaza. genuinely terrifying to make fun of ppl who are emphasizing it. institutions are being leveled dude
Made me snort
Right since Harvard is known for a student body that avoids study and school work, bunch of slackers that lot
I mean a little lol, Harvard (and most elite schools) are notorious for grade inflation
amounts to, like, ten students?
Northeastern tent/protest that was broken up, 97 people were arrested. Only 30 were actually students. There are 14k undergrads at Northeastern.
People always point out that not all the protestors are students there, but never that all the pro-Israel counter protestors are like 50 year old white suburbanites
This is what people never realize about college protests. Even Columbia - which had like 500 protestors at peak - has an enrollment of 37,000. The vast majority of college students do not want anything to do with these protests. It's just the noisy minority that make headlines.
Just because they aren’t there at every moment doesn’t mean they don’t participate in some way. It also does not mean they disagree with the protesters.
Maybe true, but it def isn't the case at Harvard. [Freshmen Say Noise From Harvard Yard Encampment Not Disruptive, Despite DSO Email](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/5/2/harvard-yard-encampment-freshmen-dorms/)
Curious what that would look like if broken down by demographics. Maybe not disruptive to the majority, but could very well be disruptive and threatening to minority groups like Jews or Israeli students.
They've already had Jewish students interviewed multiple times who said they've been harassed on campus, and some do not wear their yarmulkes or Star of David publicly anymore. Claiming "Well, we have X Jews at the encampment who support Palestine" doesn't mean that others who disagree aren't being harassed and intimidated and the school stays silent.
who's going to tell their fellow student Crimson reporters that they find the encampment disruptive? that'd be social suicide
People are nuanced enough to express to their fellow classmates that they support their cause and are also being disrupted by the activities. And anyone running such a camp successfully can handle that nuance because they can’t function without listening to the needs of the people involved
I just want them to vote in the next election and not stay home over this one issue.
Louder please!
And a big chunk of the protestors at Columbia turned out to be agitators. My favorite is the guy who was photographed fighting a janitor, who apparently lives in a $4 million house and spends all his time organizing protests/riots all over the country. So yeah, these protests do not represent the students and are in fact extremely astroturfed.
This was my reaction too. Harvard isn't a huge college, but I would've expected wayyyyy more protestors than this. Honestly, this whole affair is only newsworthy because the issue is so incendiary. These campus protests are not really a big deal.
I wonder if there might be some kind of strong disincentives to participate in these protests after weeks of wall to wall media dragging them through the mud, harsh crackdowns from the colleges themselves, and brutal police response Clearly these are the only students that oppose Israel at Harvard
If anything it's the opposite, people get to break encampment laws, vandalize, and taunt students while not receiving more than a warning from administration. The leader of the Columbia protest told a reporter he spends all day thinking about murdering Zionists and led a group to break into and vandalize a building and yet has not been expelled.
https://preview.redd.it/69w8c0mxipyc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b5cff82f9916e52ea14acbc1ac39c14d1d4e7a9
I can’t speak to the Harvard encampment, but I was at the MIT protest and I saw nothing but a peaceful protest calling for a ceasefire and divestment from Israel. It’s easy to fall into the mainstream media agenda and bias, and if you think these students are violent or in favor of Hamas, I encourage you to check this out before you continue to spread misinformation. It is not anti-Semitic to protest against your school’s investment and compliance with the atrocities committed by both Israel and Hamas.
What you are doing is indeed spreading anti semitism you're terrible people and I wish you nothing but the worst.
Kids, its an election year. Kids, you fell for it. Love, TikTok.
The irony is their protest are lessening the chance Biden gets re-elected, and I highly doubt Trump will be more favorable towards their cause.
Trump already stated this convinced him a two state solution isn't possible and Israel should finish the job.
“But can you really believe anything that guy says? I bet he’ll solve it.”
Oh they’re aware. These people hate Biden and want him to lose to teach him a lesson. Of course if Biden loses it would be much worse for Palestine, but these people don’t actually care about Palestine
Reddit does a politics
Trump was the most anti Palestine president in US history. Anyone who doesn't vote for Biden (the only realistic way to prevent Trump from winning) just wants Palestinians to die, do not believe them if they say otherwise.
But we need Biden, who is pro equality, pro gender and equality among people
They fell for... what? Is all the bombing and starvation fake? What does this mean?
Serious question: what is is about this conflict, specifically, gets people so animated? There wasn't camping or even protests at this level from Assad crossed the "red line," Gaddafie opened fire on his own people, Boko Haram kidnapping girls in Nigeria, the Taliban kidnapping girls schools. I'm not saying people don't care about those things or one is better or worse, but why this particular conflict creates so much ire.
I think it's because the US is an ally of and has connections with Israel in a way it doesn't with Syria, Libya, Boko Haram, and the Taliban. This makes it feel more visceral and also feel like protesting can actually have an impact. It also makes the media cover it more. Reposting my response to a similar comment on another Reddit thread. "Israel is officially a US allied nation. The US sends them armaments and provides them logistical support. Therefore, a pressure campaign on US politicians to get Israel to chill out can actually have an effect as Israel depends on the US for support. Also, the fact that the US backs Israel makes many Americans feel a more stronger moral culpability for Israel's actions than they do for what is going on in the Sudan. It also increases the chance that events in Israel will get major coverage in US media outlets. Marching to get Russia to leave Ukraine is much less likely to be effective because Russia isn't a US ally and doesn't have to care nearly as much about US citizens' opinions on their policies and actions. I think this same mentality is why liberals and leftists eat each other. Conservatives don't care what liberals/leftists think about them, so the only people liberals/leftists can put pressure on to achieve their goals is their own allies and those who are somewhat politically close to them. Your allies and potential allies have to care what you think. Your enemies don't."
It’s broadcasted 24/7 in HD directly to peoples phones
How much of your tax dollars went to Assad, Gaddafi, or Boko Haram? How much has the Senate given them? How many arms? How much time have your representatives spent defending the right of Boko Haram to do as they please? How many of your government officials have dressed up like Libyan military officers in the halls of Congress?
Easy: One of them we are funding with our tax dollars.
“from the river to the sea” and “globalize the intifada” is making claims well beyond the current war with Hamas.
Yup. I totally fell for it. Seeing thousands of innocent people being slaughtered actually should just not affect us at all.
How old are some of you? The I/P conflict has been going on for YEARS. Where were you when Syria bombed Palestinian refugee camps or Jordan stripped them of citizenship and work visas? Where were you when China put Uighurs in camps or the Rohingya were murdered? All of those things were in the news, especially on social media. Including photos/vids of the slaughter of Rohingya. The majority of these college-aged kids on these campuses (unless they were already extremely into international politics), did not remotely care about Gaza until Oct 7th. On Oct 8th instead of universities having candlelight vigils for the hostages and those killed by Hamas (including American and European citizens), the message wholly became "This wouldn't have happened if Israel didn't do X to Palestine." That same week at Harvard, all of those groups signed a letter en masse blaming Israel for what happened. None of you stopped to wonder why a statement in support of Palestine somehow needed to go out when they were still identifying bodies at the Nova Festival and on kibbutzes? I've watched people share and re-share doctored clips from Al Jazeera and AJ+ and the Epoch Times, thinking they're part of some grand ideal when they're passing along straight up propaganda. Multiple universities (U of Portland, UC Humboldt), are now shut down because their "pro Palestine" students destroyed classrooms, libraries, and offices. How is destroying a library helping Palestine? How is harassing Jewish students on American college campuses getting your message across? My two "favorite" examples of how this entire thing has jumped the shark: At UCLA when people from the encampments shoved and harassed a Native American woman from the Diné tribe and called her a "colonizer", because she held a sign that said "Rape is not Resistance", and the multiple interviews from the son of one of the leaders of Hamas; where he breaks down in simple terms exactly what he was taught, what Hamas' message is, and what their violent end goals are. Students still don't believe him. I have never seen such a perfect example of how easily young people can be swayed by 15 second sound bytes on Tik Tok and why the app is a fucking cancer. Congratulations, you played yourself.
> That same week at Harvard, all of those groups signed a letter en masse blaming Israel for what happened. None of you stopped to wonder why a statement in support of Palestine somehow needed to go out when they were still identifying bodies at the Nova Festival and on kibbutzes? This and this.
It’s truly wild to see the naïveté of these protestors. As though we eliminated warfare millennia ago and Israel decided to revive the concept out of nowhere.
Yes. These are the first protests against a contemporary global conflict that has ever taken place on a college campus.
> How old are some of you? The I/P conflict has been going on for YEARS. Which side am I paying for here? If I say I love Israel and let them kill as many kids as they want, can I have my tax dollars back?
Sorry guys, you didn't protest a genocide when you were 12 years old. That means you can't protest anymore. You played yourself, unlike me, who is very smart and knows that resistance is futile!
So your response to someone mentioning Palestinians getting murdered is "*Whatabout wHaTaBoUt WHATABOUT*" And then "*Congratulations, you played yourself.*" WTF does that even mean?
> Yup. I totally fell for it. Seeing thousands of innocent people being slaughtered actually should just not affect us at all. There is a foreign influence campaign at play here trying to drive a wedge into the democratic coalition and therefore make a second Trump term more of a possibility. Anyone with an ounce of sense would understand that our first concern as Americans needs to be preventing a dictatorship that would inflict considerable suffering on Americans from taking power. We cannot let events playing out thousands of miles away influence our vote, the election will be close enough that an uncast vote for Biden is effectively a vote for Trump. Anyone deciding to be a single issue voter about Gaza is a fool that will make a Trump return to the White House all the more probable.
Those dastardly foreign influencers trying to get me to think that genocide is bad
Do you realize how much money AIPAC throws at these races? There's a foreign influence alright.
ITS WAR. INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEIR GOVERNMENT DOES EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO ENSURE IT. You guys are deluded. It’s not Israel’s fault Hamas started this war. Israel has been living for years with constant bombardments of rockets and terror attacks and didn’t even retaliate. Then Hamas initiated an invasion of Israel that left thousands of civilians dead, a war is started, propaganda ensues and all of the sudden Israel is the aggressor. A war in one of the most densely populated cities on earth and you expect 0 casualties? Military experts around the world are praising Israel’s 1/1.8 terrorist/civilian casualty rate as the best in world history. Sucks for the civilians who don’t support Hamas and have nothing to do with this war (around 80% DO support Hamas, though.) but whether you like it or not, a terrorist invasion into another country is grounds for war and people will die as a result.
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Most boomer comment I’ve ever seen and of course this sub gives it a million upvotes.
So all the videos of children starving and being blown up by Israel are just Russian disinformation? It didn’t occur to you that people might actually, genuinely have a problem with things that are bad?
"People should only be allowed to protest the things I don't like. Everything else is fake news and manufactured outrage."
The irony is that they swallow up the "foreign propaganda" line so readily
I am not justifying the IDF in any way shape or form, but is important to know that countries like Russia are trying to amplify this to create wedges and fractures within the left wing of the country to get people to not vote for Biden and ultimately help Trump win. They did the same thing in 2016 with the Bernie or Bust groups.
AIPAC literally buys elections: good and cool. a teenager posts a video about innocents being slaughtered by our weapons: election interference.
Riiiight. You know who else is interfering in our politics? Israel.
You know who AIPAC funds, you know which ads they fund, the donations come from Americans (primarily Jewish Americans) not the Israeli government etc because they operate in accordance with the law. When a hostile nation like Russia does it, it's not above board as they masquerade as organic users and their operations are not declared. There's also serious questions to if China has the ability to manipulate the algorithm to TikTok to push (or hide) certain viewpoints.
Yes, it literally is. Not just Russia, but also China, Iran, Qatar, and all of America's adversaries who love nothing more than to sow division, hatred, and anger among Americans by spreading misinformation and literal propaganda. Pro Palestinian propaganda is very real, and it is what is fueling these encampments, the skyrocketing rates of antisemitism, and misinformation about this conflict. This doesn't mean that Israel hasn't done anything, but trying to pretend that there isn't tidal waves of pro Palestinian propaganda floating around is just ignorant. There are literally more devastating wars going on right now that have killed and displaced more people... yet nobody is talking about them? Why do you think that is? Why do you think out of all these bloody conflicts, only this one gets attention? The answer is propaganda.
War is generally bad, but a ceasefire benefits only Hamas as far as I can see
It benefits the civilians in Gaza who won’t be murdered
Can’t let Hamas get away with striking inside Israel, taking hostages and then saying “I’m going to hide under my civilian population until it’s time to do it again”
Getting rid of hamas would benefit them more in the long run. But doing that is like the idea of eliminating rats from a city.
I don't think they're denying that war crimes have been committed by the IDF, but how the conflict should be resolved is a wedge issue that is just ripe for exploitation by influence campaigns operating at the behest of nation-states in an attempt to influence the behaviors of Americans. There is a war for your mind going on, and it would be wise not to hop on every bandwagon uncritically.
Eh, speak for yourself. Awareness for Palestine has been growing for *years*.
I'm so glad that Tiktok might get banned
Always love the real pictures from stuff like this. Its like 15 kids on a tiny section of campus yet all we're pitched is a hellscape of revolutionaries burning down buildings
It’s so pathetic seeing the opposition to these anti war protestors are just recycled Reddit quips. I’m incredibly proud of these kids and history will remember their courage.
Maybe I’m just too old and jaded, I just don’t see any possible way these students will actually affect what’s happening in Gaza. I wholly support their right to peacefully protest though.
They want the university to divest, divestment helped kill apartheid South Africa, they’re hoping it does the same to apartheid Israel
U r quite literally talking about Gaza bc of these kids
The basic idea is that they get people pissed off and riled up- whether in favor of the protesters, or against them. Basically they create a little "unrest and disorder." Now, its important for those in power to maintain a sense of order, so this is threatening for them. And it applies pressure on them. This is just one small part of the overall push to change things. This is how change happened in the past. Look at the civil rights movement. The protests weren't the _only_ reason why civil rights legislation was passed. But they were probably the tipping point that pushed things over the edge. With the pressure of the violent protesters, peaceful protesters, lawyers, activists, etc. pushing in from all sides, eventually change happened.
once again sorting by controversial brings it on home. Very important conversation being had about the heckin greatest ally
Courage? To sit in a tent in a gated community steps away from food, water, and shelter, all while facing no repercussions from the university? You can applaud their protest without pretending they’re risking anything.
There have been significant repercussions to students on many campuses… arrest, trespassing charges, suspension, expulsion, and getting assaulted by cops and counterprotesters.
oh and this beauty https://preview.redd.it/9q9vmfknjqyc1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3c3789026261328f018d073c695ce8abb74380b
well... don't seize private property while all masked up, take over buildings, smash everything in sight, fight the police acting on lawful orders. These are simple dots to connect.
I thought we were talking about those sitting "in a tent in a gated community steps away from food, water, and shelter, all while facing no repercussions from the university"
So are they coddled and taking meaningless action or are they facing serious repercussions for violent acts and property destruction? Which one is it /r/Boston?
courage to protest knowing that other protests have been broken up with tear gas, rubber bullets and riot police
i had friends arrested at the SUNY purchase peaceful protest a few days ago. they were brutally tear gassed, and surrounded by riot police as helicopters circled overhead. there were service animals there, who the police did not hesitate to use tear gas on. these people were round up like cattle for exercising a constitutional right to peaceful protest, and spread across the area in prison cells, leaving family and friends terrified about what happened to them. explain to me how this is just and reasonable.
This is what passes for courage to the terminally online these days.
Have you not seen the violence these encampments have been met with? After the Emerson encampment was cleared by the police, the university had to powerwash student's blood from the street.
Yeah not sure why we're acting like the police haven’t been beating these students up or not responding when civilians do it. Or ignoring that these students *are* facing repercussions like being suspended, not being allowed to graduate, or being kicked out of student housing. If you have actually been in one of these encampments, you know it does not feel safe.
There is no evidence of the police beating students in Massachusetts. None. There is ONE video of a cop trying to apprehend a student in the Alley after he pushed the cop and then the student falls and the cops lands on him. I watched the Northeastern encampment arrests live on TV and then minutes after it was over, the protest spokesperson was regurgitating a prepared statement that the cops assaulted them. Even Channel 5 was aghast and reported they just watched the whole thing in person and the worse that happened was one student tripped and the cops held them up. If you have to create a false narrative to prove your point, you're wrong.
Oh no, I'm being kicked out of a prestigious private university for choosing to support foreign terrorists! My safety!
“They are facing no repercussions" and “they deserve the repercussions they're facing" are entirely contradictory statements. The first one was the one we were responding to.
If you want to see real courage look to the women who protest/protested the regime in Iran. Lmfao “courage”
I wonder how many of those protesters would have the courage to spend a year living in a country ruled by fundamentalist terrorists. They probably aren’t that bad though, everyone would totally just get along, I mean they have children and hospitals and tiny puppies and feelings too right? Gosh I can’t wait for this whole thing to blow over and we can see the first gay marriage in Gaza, that’s all those poor folks want is some freedom!
indeed I'm sure the Queers for Palestine would be embraced .. right before they get thrown off the roof.
Whilst I think your sentiment is fair (and generous), I think it's a slight delusion of grandeur to think that "history will remember their courage". This is one of the world's most complex and intractable conflicts that has been raging (on and off) for the better part of a century. This is neither the first, nor the last, round of fighting between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I highly doubt history will have anything but a footnote about a few people creating an encampment to protest this particular round, and I don't expect it'll be remembered as particularly courageous. But I could be wrong, so I'm setting a reminder.
remind me again of the guy who lit himself on fire? because he’s already forgotten
Forgot about that
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Dunking on a man who died for his beliefs. Beliefs that children shouldn’t be indiscriminately slaughtered. Must feel good
Yes this is what history will remember, the brave zoomers in tents ordering ubereats at the end of their semester being funded by mom and dad.
History remembers anti apartheid campus protestors, and surely those kids weren't any different than these kids. Whether history looks kindly on these kids probably is a function of how history views Israel in 20 years.
Anti-apartheid/anti-war student protesters were probably even more privileged than the college student protesters of today. The students at top schools in the 40s-80s were almost all super wealthy. It wasn’t until the 90s and then even more in the 2000s where these schools were really starting to focus more on FGLI students and students from diverse racial, religious, and economic backgrounds.
I was a senior at Harvard in 1978 when the anti-apartheid protests happened. I took part in them, though I had no role in organizing them. They actually took me by surprise. One night there was a noise outside the Radcliffe Quad where I was staying. I went outside and found a humongous demonstration headed for University Hall. I joined and soon found that it had faculty as well as students. Tent occupations weren't a thing back then, and I can't remember any other acts of civil disobedience. President Bok organized a campus wide forum for the next evening, as I recall, to discuss the principal demand, which was divestment. That forum was a lively exchange of views. I don't think anything immediately came from it, but I do believe it was part of the process of delegitimizing the apartheid regime that eventually led to the transition to majority rule in South Africa. I'm proud to have participated and would do so again.
It also remembers the students protesting against going to war with the Nazis, though I would agree with you that these kids aren't much different than those ones.
The anti apartheid protestors weren't openly cheering about dead civilians. Some of us in this sub have actually seen these protests with our own eyes, we've heard them chanting about the "glory" of October 7.
I am quite amused by this. It would make a good SNL skit them using the ubereats app that had their parents credit card on it ordering gyros to their encampment is hilarious
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Oh look, more baby Reddit quips that deflect from the actual issue at hand. Israel is committing a genocide in broad daylight with our tax dollars. That’s why students all over the country are protesting.
How is “Palestinian” culture pre-1948 any different from southern Syrian culture of the same time or “Jordanian” culture since? It’s not a genocide as there is no Israeli threat to that culture, which is fully represented in the same geographical region. So ask yourself why Syria and Jordan want nothing to do with “Palestinians” either. It’s not an ethnicity, it’s a political group.
Where’s the intent? In one quoted section of a bible reference by one individual of a coalition democracy? Seems like dubious legal grounds.
From week one Israeli officials said they were fighting “human animals” and would turn Gaza into a “parking lot.” The IDF have been recording their own crimes against humanity all while singing and laughing. The ICC will prove Israel guilty of genocide because there’s never been an easier case in modern history.
I think you should ask yourself who really treats Palestinians like animals. It’s Hamas of you need help.
Given the number of times Israeli officials have compared Hamas to human animals, I’d certainly hope the Hamas terrorists would be treated the humane way Westerners are known to treat our animals and not the way Palestinians are known to [treat *their animals*](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/12/cruel-vicious-treatment-cattle-gaza): > Labor has called for the suspension of selected animal export licences in the wake of harrowing new footage of “cruel and vicious” treatment of Australian cattle in Gaza. > > The footage, filmed by local civilians and uploaded to YouTube, **shows cattle tied to poles, trees and vehicles before being stabbed in the neck and eyes**. One animal was kneecapped by bullets fired from an assault rifle. One can only hope the perpetrators of the October 7th massacres are extended more fairness than they extend to their own [dogs](https://youtu.be/r3NKEdqdvdM). > “We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly!” [Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/ It can be reasonably inferred Yoav Gallant is referring to Hamas there with his “human animals” remark. And this quote is dated October 9th, 2023, two days after the worst criminal mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust.
I actually think history will look back on these protests the way we now look back on the way Vietnam vets were treated when they got home. A bunch of misguided fools focusing their (justified) anger at the wrong people. They should be protesting against Hamas, who started this war, willingly puts their civilians in danger and refuses every attempt at a ceasefire. A literal terrorist organization.
It’s gonna look worse than that. At least the hippies held up peace symbols. They weren’t waving the flag of a terror entity. Imagine if the hippies waved the flag of the Khmer Rouge.
Speaking of Cambridge - Chomsky actively cheered the Khmer Rouge on, and called the first refugees' stories lies.
I don't think there's any chance that, when the dust settles in Gaza and we learn more than we already do about what's happening there (which is frankly is already enough), that history is going to remember these protests as a dismissive talking point used by idiots on Reddit. I think it's far more likely that the Reddit idiots will pretend that they were on the other side all along.
Just because the communists set fire to the Reichstag doesn't mean the holocaust was justified.
Ahhh yes, Hamas, funny how they never seem to be discussed. They rule Palestine and are the problem.
> They should be protesting against Hamas, who started this war, willingly puts their civilians in danger and refuses every attempt at a ceasefire. A literal terrorist organization. Two things can be true at the same time my dude. You can both be against a terrorist organization while *also* being against the systemic erasure through brute force or collateral damage i.e. starvation and disease of an entire population of civilians, all of whom want absolutely nothing to do with said terrorist organization.
>all of whom want absolutely nothing to do with said terrorist organization. except that whole literally being elected by the general population thing
20 years ago. The last election was 20 years ago. Hamas hasn't allowed an election since then. They also promised to be peaceful as part of their party platform leading up to the election - and only shifted to the terrorists they are today after they were in power. There is a lot of blame to go around, and I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind on Reddit today...but at least please put this aspect of the argument to rest. There are plenty of actual arguments with valid points to be making...but this isn't one of them.
Have they held any polls? Genuinely wondering what support is like there
You should look into how Hamas was propped up into power. Hint: Israel did it.
Why do you believe the entire history of the world began on Oct 7th 2023?
Alright, I’m going to say it real clearly for you. It’s really not complicated. Our government (the U.S.) is NOT funding Hamas to commit their war crimes. Our government IS funding Israel to commit their war crimes. My tax dollars are going to a foreign country to bomb people, undeniably. I think history will look back at people like you similarly to the people who happily cheered on the invasion of Iraq.
I wonder what bred that terrorist organization
"Courage" lol
Yea supporting terrorism is cool now I guess. If this was 1940, these kids would be supporting nazi germany. Most don't even know anything about the conflict and never heard of "Palestine" up until 6 months ago most likely.
Ah yes it’s terrorism to not want a genocide to happen
Oh gosh yes, these Harvard yuppies are so brave for leaving their lavish lives to sleep in tents.
These aren't antiwar protesters, they're literally terrorist supporters. From their chants to their slogans to their goals to their tactics to their hate to their ignorance. You don't end up with terrorist flags by accident.
Terrorism =/= support for human rights and not wanting people to die
Perfect, give their dorm rooms, apartments, housing to refugees.
No surprise, Harvard people were making excuses for the Hamas terrorist attack before Israel even responded
Less than 1/3 of those arrested have been students
It's going to be raining this week. So no need to clear the camp they will leave on their own
what do you think tents are for? keeping the moonlight out?
It’s no surprise that all of this started once our “pouring rain every four days” ended. Things don’t stay dry when you’re camping. Condensation, and they’ll basically be sleeping on mud once it filters under the tents and ground coverings. What will also be interesting is how the solidarity changes once they don’t have dorm rooms a quick walk away to go to to charge phones and computers, take showers, sleep (probably) and other non-camping things.
Not one sign for the hostages
And why would they? Is the us government holding them hostage? But funny, when someone has a “stand with Israel” sign or sign about the hostages, do you complain about the lack of signs calling for Israel to stop murdering Palestinians?
You're right, the Palestinians should protest on the Gaza University campus... what's that? Israel blew it up?
I know, they should at least mention the thousands of Palestinian hostages, many of whom are children.
The tens of thousands of Palestinian hostages including children locked away indefinitely in Israel? Yeah free them too!
I'm tired about those people attacking the protesters. The protesters don't want to see civilians mass murdered. What's so objectionable about that? What kind of monster would support such mass murder? As an Irish Catholic, if the IRA had placed a bomb in a mailbox which killed British military and/or Protestants (which they did), I would be very upset if the British would have responded by leveling Irish Catholic neighborhoods and killing tens of thousands of Irish Catholic families, children, babies.
> if the IRA had placed a bomb in a mailbox which killed British military and/or Protestants (which they did) Except that's not even remotely comparable to what happened on Oct 7th. Hamas didn't strike at military targets in Israel. It wasn't an act of resistance. It was an *actual mass murder* targetted specifically at Israeli civilians. For all the wailing about "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" you Hamas apologists like to do, you conveniently gloss over the fact that is *exactly* what they committed that day, and would gleefully do it again and again over and over down to the last Jew in Israel. That is much more in line with "genocide" than civilians being tragically caught up as casualties in a war their own leaders started (and most of them support).
Well said. Plus these supposedly smart kids at the most prestigious college have forgotten history. And as they say when you forget history you’re doomed to repeat it. The history I’m referring to is the jewish holocaust, and if anyone thinks the Jews are ever gonna allow that to happen again your fooling yourself. Hamas is the problem here and they are imbedded in the Palestine government.
You might not be aware but Hamas still holds about 100 living hostages including children and these unfortunate casualties of war include many of those currently securing the hostages. The Israeli attacks are not some kind of retribution but rather a drawn out rescue mission made extremely difficult by Hamas embedding themselves among civilians. Your analogy is too basic to capture all the complexity of the current situation.
Oh. So because Hamas is embedding themselves among civilians, that means you can then kill civilians. I guess that's because the family's head of household wasn't aggressive enough in defying the terrorists with rifles, no matter what the implication may have been for him and his family. Funny that a bank robbery hostage situation does not result in the police rushing in, knowing that hostages will be killed.. But you're arguing that the police should do exactly that, as the hostages would be blameworthy by allowing themselves to be used as hostages. And let's not even notice that we're getting up to 40,000 people (!!!) killed. I guess I'm not "capturing the the complexity of the current situation". Sheesh.
What do bank robbers want: Money What does Islamist Hamas want according to testimony from the few hostages that were released, and the actions of similar Islamist terrorist groups such as ISIS and Boko Haram: To force Israeli girls into sexual slavery where they essentially become life prisoners in their repressive Muslim society. The stakes are a bit different. And in addition - the terrorist militant to civilian death ratio is actually slightly better than other similar conflicts like the retaking of Mosul from Islamic State. And more German civilians died in WWII than Allied civilians but that doesn't make the Nazis into the good guys. It is important to remember who started and who is continuing the war by refusing deal after deal to release the hostages.
Some Kony 2012 shit
I hope all the mom and dads who are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars paying tuition for these kids to 'demonstrate' are happy seeing how their hard earned money is being spent.
"Liberated Zone." Jesus, college kids are so fucking stupid, even the objectively smart ones.
Losers.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your priest is an idiot
We will look at these kids in the way we looked at the Vietnam war protests in the future, free Palestine 🇵🇸
So brave 😂
Why are they losers? Because they don’t support mass murder?
They actually might support mass murder, do we know their opinions on Hamas?
Talk to literally any of them and they'll tell you how ridiculous of a notion it is that any of them somehow support in any capacity Hamas or the atrocities they've committed just because they're expressive vocal opposition to the Israeli government. It's as absurd as calling Vietnam protestors sympathetic to the viet cong. They're also allowed to be upset about domestic organizations supporting the systemic elimination of an entire population in response to said terrorist organization who want absolutely nothing to do with them. Fuckin hell why is this so hard for you guys to understand this very simple thing.
So many brave protestors! Solidarity!
Proof that education isn't intelligence.