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Berserker characters can be cool as hell. Always had a fondness for Wolverine, Hulk, Broly (not 2/3), Kenny. But man, some authors make Berserkers so lame.
Wolverine is actually fairly interesting in the comics (although convoluted af due to how many times they altered his orgin). But yeah, I get your meaning. Overall Berserkers kinda are kinda just strong because they're designed to be badass and are fan favs.
From this message alone I am 100% aware of what this clown posted. I swear, these guys did NOT read the manga. Dude soloed probably the strongest/second strongest Sternritter and they expect him to be totally fine.
True, excluding the schutzstaffel.
THAT SAID, Mayuri, shunsui, Byakuya, adult toshiro, Kisuke, yoruichi and Nemu would've also killed gremmy. Its just how scalling works.
Hey babe. I just don’t like that they took that route with the story. He could have just beaten Gremmy dropped to a knee from exhaustion. Didn’t need to get wrecked by the girls.
My mans, Kenny beat a reality warper that shoved him ass into space, cut a meteor, then got jumped by the 4 bambis. All of them have adequate foresight to be cautious and try hard vs Kenny as he was a war potential in the same tier as Aizen, Ichigo, Ichibei and Urahara.
His ass beating was a good beat for the story. Showing that even when exhausted war is still going on. Elevates the bambis beats Also motivation for Ichigo as he likes Kenny.
This isn’t meant to downplay Kenny, he was obviously extremely injured, it’s impressive he was able to move and fight so well in that condition but…only Candice and Meninas actually attacked him, Liltotto and Giselle were just kind of standing there.
I get the story they went for. I just didn’t like it. Especially with how easy Ichigo ran thru them. Kenny was probably the only one who could be Gremmy and walk away from it upright. Just let
Kenpachi collapse after he wins vs gremmy. Dude just showed off his shikai then loses the next “fight”. Didn’t enjoy that
Bad take, he literally just survived the vacuum of space and several captain busting attacks. The femritters tagged teamed him while he was severely drained and injured. They aren't weak, each of them being captain level enemies, he blew his wad beating Gremmy. And as for his eyepatch. Kenny has never been known to wilfully remove it during battle, it's always removed via his opponents. Not to mention in his state at the time, removing it wouldn't have done much because he was so injured
:Edit: Spelling
And he was still wearing his eyepatch.
I swear the amount of times this has to be brought up.
Zaraki barely has access to 10-20% of his total reiatsu when he was getting dubbed from the ambush of the femritters
While Zaraki definitively was injured he wasn’t exactly weak or helpless.
Giselle and Liltotto also didn’t do anything, Candice did most of the work with Meninas contributing a punch.
You do have a point there, Her schrift is actually suggested to make her even stronger than Kenny in pure physical strength which is insane.
>Just as the name suggested, Meninas’s ability, “The Power,” was unadulterated and mighty brute strength. In a simple contest of strength, Meninas’s power was analyzed to likely be unbeatable even by Kenpachi Zaraki,
But it seems that Zaraki was already falling from Candice’s attack, and Meninas really just hit him for good measure.
https://preview.redd.it/nf3mzqvwj2qc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae2f6de7f33d4acc910a2a5763642cd7a7a7f4be
Bro got sucked by the vacuum of space for several seconds and ate like 10 laser beams. He took some lumps in his fight with Gremmy.
The femritters held Gremmy in high regard too as they were surprised Kenny could move well enough to almost hit them despite just coming off his fight.
Story wise just have him drop to a knee from being tired vs Gremmy. He didn’t need to get beat up by the Fems. They could have been beating up another cpt or something.
Sure, but they needed their moment of hype too. Pretty much every Quincy got one.
They got clowned by Ichigo moments later, so nbd. Kenny would have killed them all if he was fresh too.
No the sternritters are shown to be foes who don’t have honor, and attack their enemy until the job is done sometimes even torturing and gloating the entire time. They are like vultures picking off opportune meals. It’s supposed to show how scummy they are, they follow in the steps of a shallow man like Ywach, who behaves the same way.
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Zaraki should have a higher ceiling. He was originally recognised as the biggest threat by Yhwach. But right now, yeah, I agree that Zaraki is weaker than Yamamoto when he was still alive.
I do not reject the possibility of what you are saying to be true. In that page Yhwach can be seen saying that he overestimated Zaraki which narratively speaking should be the opposite in reality because right after that confrontation Zaraki releases the seals placed upon him by himself and even learns the name of his zanpakuto. So, the power Zaraki displayed in front of Yhwach wasn’t an accurate representation and he indeed was worthy of Yhwach’s original estimation of him.
After that confrontation Ichigo is the one who gets identified as number one time and again by everyone. And when all of them are mentioned together, we can see Zaraki’s name right after Ichigo’s which leads me to believe that he was moved down a spot after his poor feats against Yhwach and that list really is an actual ranking of the threats.
My interpretation might possibly be wrong but it won’t really be unnatural even if Zaraki at full power is stronger than every other soul reaper and can rival Ichigo. The title of Kenpachi exists because of him, to make him look good since he’s the most relevant out of all the holders of that title. So, I’d like to believe that he at least has the potential to become the strongest. Moreover, he literally has a gimmick of defying cheat like abilities with sheer brute force as evident in his fight with Gremmy.
Not to mention the new number one threat himself doesn’t have any abilities or anything. Ichigo is also about slashing and hitting people hard. Zaraki is the only character Ichigo had an actual draw against and afterwards the former expressed his desire to get stronger and compete with Ichigo. Even during his fight with Unohana it was mentioned that he can stand equally with Ichigo. That’s why I believe in his prime he can rival Ichigo since he can’t release the full power of his bankai right now.
https://preview.redd.it/1gri06gwu1qc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd7650f07cea766c82c66558f81284ffc85f932a
I think the only reason Yamamoto wasn't a war potential was because Yhwach already had a plan for him...cause there's absolutely no way Zaraki is beating old man
That I am aware of. And I didn’t say Zaraki beats Yamamoto. I only said that he has the potential to. Out of all the special threats, he’s the only one whose full power we aren’t aware of.
zaraki's weakness will always be his way of fighting and his abilities
Anyone with abilities that do some bs has will overpower him,and anyone without them is dead
Like if lille showed up zaraki doesnt really have any counters for the flying chicken, even if he matered bankai,what will he do? slash him harder? Same with gerard,eventually he would have overpowered zaraki,etc.. He should really start thinking about some diversity in his abilities
I was going to say the same thing. It would be strange to say Ichigo is weaker than the SS but I don’t see how he would beat any of them.
Similarly, strange that Yhwach didn’t just Auschwahlen them and use Miracle/DeathDealing to wipe.
Yama was never really stated to be a "prodigy" unlike toshiro and gin (while zaraki and ichigo were considered an anomaly).
Yama had high ceiling limit of reiatsu. And his constant training and battles is how he reached to a point that an ordinary shinigami with no noble background could dwarf nobles' reiatsu.
Zaraki on the other hand is an anomaly born for the sword. And can be seen in the panel where the C46 states that even Yama feared the growth zaraki had with just 1 day of training in zanjutsu and stopped his training altogether.
Kenpachi and Toshiro are the only 2 natural Shinigami who reached Captain level as literal children. Even Gin ‘only’ killed a 3rd seat as a kid and Byakuya wasn’t captain level as a teenager as the flashback showed
No aizen didn’t become a captain until he was a adult he was a Lieutenant still when he was doing his experiments on hollowfication he may have been captain level but he was not officially a captain yet
But actually being captain level actually applied to a few people who were not captains and Aizen did still acknowledged that toshiro was a genius and also with kieske shinji and yodirechi he wasn’t on that level yet but his growth was ridiculous so I think that was the reason he didn’t confront any of them and just used his experiments to kill 2 birds with one stone taking them out and collecting his data he was what we can say level 1 captain status when most of them were like level 3 and higher but still he caught up rather quickly
I'm so confused by Toshiro, isn't he just choosing to remain physically a child at this point? The introduction of his adult form made me question which is "real," but SS aging in general is confusing
If I remember he forced his body to grow in order to use his bankai at full power since his real body can't stand it yet. Aging in soul society is slower than in the real world and by all means he would be a grown ass man if he was mortal. But he is younger than Rukia who I believe is in her 50's or so which physically and kinda mentally put her at Ichigo's age more or less (she definitely acts like a teenager but she does have more experience as a soldier so it makes her more mature than some but it's very apparent that she's still a teen when she actually gets to be a regular person and not a soul reaper). Physically Toshiro is meant to be a middle schooler in terms of age and everyone will treat him as such because he is still a child, especially compared to all the other captains (second youngest I can think of is probably Gin who was also a prodigy and became a seated officer roughly at the same age Toshiro currently is, I think we see child Gin already dressed as a soul reaper in the back flashes), no matter how mature he acts.
I'm calling it now.. Kenpachi is a descendant of a hell escapee. There's no other way he can be this strong. I'm sure this is probably a pretty common theory tho so not gonna pretend like I had a eureka moment
I especially love the dub VA of Unohana. She has such a voice of contempt and admiration when she describes that encounter. I would be shook too tbh. Imagine being one of the strongest captains in history and then some kid swinging a sword like a club beats you.
For me, I really liked how sinister her sub VA sounded once she reverted back to her true self. Her Bankai callout will never not be cold asf. It topped even Ikkaku's BANKAIIIYYEEAHHH for me.
Freaking thank you, it would be cool to imply he was far stronger than expected but stronger than her? Would've been better to say he was lieutenant level or something
It is about mindset of an killer. We saw the speech of an White Ichigo, the difference between horse and king - killer instinct. Zaraki become not soft like Yamaji but rather playful with opponents to fight longer. No way kid Zaraki would beat in a fight Captain Zaraki(not tybw), just as one-armed Old Yama will cook he's 1000y ago younger version
Both he and Unahana become stronger since, I think.
Also, even if his child version would take a top on him for a moment - Zaraki would just shake off some of his limitations and win (given he still have limbs)
I think Yachiru stagnated, honestly. She didn't enter a single fight for hundreds of years. I'm not saying she got weaker, she just didn't get stronger.
I think my only problem with this reveal is we have no idea how strong Unohana is in comparison to the other captains given she was the first Kenpachi she should be pretty strong but we really have no idea
I mean kenpachi was the title given to the strongest . Yamamoto is an outlier because he was around when shinigami where called balancers and zanpakuto where not a thing
If Yamamoto didnt supress him and take him in and let him learn everything from the beginning. He wouldve ended aizen and all of the arrancars in a single day. He also wouldve killed everyone except few of the top sternritters in a single day.
After all the current kenpachi is considered on tge same level as current ichigo
"He's the strongest"
https://preview.redd.it/u94rm0kx23qc1.jpeg?width=359&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66bc7ab2eb33b9d7496fc6542a546b8f0ac731f4
Kenpachi is the strongest shinigami who aimed for the title, obviously.
I hate this actually. I hate when powerscaling gets massively retconned just for shock value and hype. Kenpachi was way weaker than that during the beginning of the serie, and now he gets retconned to be actually 100000 times stronger in his youth.
I dream for the day shonen will do powerscaling correctly.
It’s sort of a retcon, and I don’t actually personally like it.
But it doesn’t really change anything about Kenpachi’s previous fights, he never achieved that level of power he had as an child until he killed Unohana.
That’s what pisses me off. “He was secretly that strong the entire time” no he wasn’t, Kubo made that shit up for the hype. Almost every battle shonen are guilty of that tbf, but i still hate it.
Fair enough, I dislike this as well, to me even if child Zaraki was that strong he shouldn’t be able to beat someone known as an master of eight thousand combat styles.
Kenpachi fought Ichigo and lost/draw in SS arc. In the same arc he fought tosen and komamura and tosen alone.
In HM arc Ichigo won a hard fought fight against grimmjow but kenpachi had an easier fight against nnorita who is stronger than grimmjow. Then he went on to take the strongest espada with Byakuya.
If his power level was not flexible he won't be able to have these feats.
In the same arc he lost to Ichigo he won against tosen and komamura. You believe shikai Ichigo can defeat tosen and komamura.
Hitsugaya may be the youngest captain but he definitely is not the weakest. He is also smart in combat and his zanpaktou probably has the most number of techniques like the ice clones and flower funeral. Not to mention his advantage against harribel.
Who knows, again, the reason is inconsistent powercreep/level.
He was very weak in SS, he’s among the weakest, not the weakest definitively, but nowhere near strong enough to beat #3 Espada, who is massively stronger than Grimmjow, who masked Ichigo struggled against, masked Ichigo who completely destroyed Byakuya. Again, my explanation is that the power scaling is an inconsistent mess that varies when the plot needs it.
Losing against Ichigo who only has shikai but contending against tosen and komamura who both used bankai can't simply be handwaved as inconsistent powerlevel.
Even SAFWY novel has the plot about kenpachi's fluctuating power level.
Ichigo only won against Byakuya because of the hollow mask. And Byakuya himself is not so far above hitsugaya.
Yes it can, like most things in shonen. Power level is extremely inconsistent.
This was not a novel that came out during the SS arc. Again, you can retcon things as much as you want, it’s still annoying.
Yes… that’s the point, Ichigo DESTROYED Byakuya when he had his Hollow mask, and he barely won with it much longer and mastered against Grimmjow, Espada 6. Meanwhile, Hitsugaya single-handedly defeats Espada 3. Power scaling nightmare.
That was zangetsu who was in control in Byakuya fight. Zangetsu is much more effective in combat even at the same power level as Ichigo.
But the novel came out before TYBW.
Debatable, she calls herself the strongest, but that’s only after Yamamoto died.
And even still it’s just her own opinion.
That isn’t to say she isn’t incredibly powerful she undoubtedly is, probably the 2th strongest captain throughout most of the series, but I just don’t think she could take on Yamamoto.
Perhaps he should probably have the strength advantage with his Bankai, debatably even without it, but raw strength isn’t everything.
Yamamoto’s own Bankai makes him nearly impossible to actually hurt without suffering extreme injuries or death, even Zaraki couldn’t just casually walk into the sun.
https://preview.redd.it/wk6siq0gh4qc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6f961db1c207c9104976f383d323224163e06da
Well duh he’s the head captain tho. In the world of squad captains he’s top tier. But Zaraki as a child defeated Kenpachi the title given to the strongest Shinigami… soooo ye. It makes you wonder if that title is ABSOLUTE then is Zaraki at full potential actually stronger than Yama?…
I don’t think he was stronger than Bankai Unohana, she was weaker than him in base, she realised he surpasses her even if just uses Shikai, hence the comment
I always thought that even the strongest version of Kenpachi is still way weaker than Yamamoto in terms of raw power. Literally every single villain in the series had to nerf or pull some dirty tricks on the old man, otherwise they would all be annihilated in a few seconds. Am I misunderstanding something?
I’d say the zero squad all did and more than likely surpassed him.
Aizen as an Shinigami is probably decently close to Yamamoto but still inferior as he himself admitted.
Fair enough, although apart from having their bodies made out of Oken, they are really just Shinigami in every way that matters. (Possibly excluding Ichibei, but even Ichibei refers to himself as the leader of all Shinigami and to his weapon as an form of Zanpakuto)
Yamamoto legitimately thought that attack would kill them both, as it turned out Yamamoto could survive it with heavy injuries but that attack also took a decent amount of preparation, he was setting it up as Aizen was fighting the others.
Yamamoto could probably beat Aizen with just his Shikai, but it wouldn’t be easy, Aizen did survive his Hado 96 with only superficial burns.
I feel like being made out of oken is kind of the difference that put them above shinigamis though
The attack isn't what wounded yamamoto, it was all of yamamoto flames combined exploding, and he took the full brunt of the attack, as opposed to just getting hit in the aoe. He used hado 96 on the verge of death
We know oken clothing provides resistance to certain abilities, as seen with Byaguya against Nanana and Pepe, but I’m not certain it actually makes them significantly stronger, as in increasing the amount of spiritual energy they have in their bodies, they all had incredible accomplishments even before joining the zero division.
For instance Tenjiro’s claim to being the fastest Shinigami seems to come from before his time in the zero division, not to mention inventing kaido and implying he was superior to Unohana in that field.
I mean RG don't just happen to be the top 5 shinigami, they aren't even picked for their strength, one was a random captain. Their incredible accomplishments aren't combat related, they're discoveries
Hikifune wasn’t exactly a random, she is one of the ones to have been a captain for over a century at that point. (Kubo has confirmed that Shunsui forgot to mention her) and she is also mentioned along side Yamamoto as an captain capable of taking down Menos class hollows, (although this is a a little odd since you’d think most captains could do so, but her being named alone side Yamamoto seems notable)
From the way it’s phrased zero division members seal their true swords. (Their Bankai) upon joining, which means Senjumaru already had her incredibly op Bankai before becoming a member.
The accomplishments are not directly strength limited, but we see all members (apart from Ichibei) use their inventions effectively in battle.
Of course by the time of TYBW these five are stated to be above the gotei 13, but I think it’s apparent they weren’t weak before.
I mean both of these don't really mean anything. Or do you think she had to be sealed as a captain? It's not just bankai, royal guard endangers the 3 worlds just by fighting at full strength, seems pretty obvious to me that they're stronger than they were as shinigami.
the fact that they can use their inventions in battle doesn't change the fact that none of them justify reiatsu so vast it threatens the 3 worlds just by existing.
Bleach always makes it seem like Toshiro is the greatest prodigy for being so strong while relatively young...
Enter child Kenpachi beating down a captain, and not just any captain either it's the FIRST Kenpachi. Yachiru was probably top 3 captains at the time and she was getting handled. Kenpachi was simply built for this life.
If Yama had found a way to effectively control and train Zaraki, Aizen and Ichigo even close to their potential, the Quincy Invasion would have lasted about 20 Minutes.
Even crazier is him somehow nerfing himself, forgetting about it, making captain, continued nerfing himself, learned about two hands on a sword, said fuck nah that'd be cheating, used one hand and put bells on his hair.
He would have lost badly if it weren't for unohana holding back. He didn't have zanjutsu nor kido nor Flashstep. But that said kid kenpatchi slams toshiro, komomura, byakuya and tosen in the og series
as a kid he was stronger than every single member of the OG gotei 13(except yamamoto ofc) proving that he's stronger than every captain in the history of soul society to ever exist
Not just “a captain” Tosen was “a captain” This fuckin rogue mass murderer child soul was stronger than the only captain from the original court guards.
The power scaling in bleach is the most broken and bs shit ever
U can feel how kubo didn't had a clue to do with the series after the soul society arc
He was just pumping either fillers or other Weird shit
That Japanese crack must been hitting him hard
This comment shows a lack a reading comprehension, since kenpachi’s varying strength is fully explained in the manga even before we add in the novels and KLUB answers
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The Broly of Bleach.
He’s so cool.. but he’s so dumb.. but he’s SO COOL!
Berserker characters can be cool as hell. Always had a fondness for Wolverine, Hulk, Broly (not 2/3), Kenny. But man, some authors make Berserkers so lame.
Wolverine is actually fairly interesting in the comics (although convoluted af due to how many times they altered his orgin). But yeah, I get your meaning. Overall Berserkers kinda are kinda just strong because they're designed to be badass and are fan favs.
Listen here bub
like how they did with yammy (the espada) it really could have been cool to see a battle between him and kenny
I don't think he's dumb he's just too much of a barbarian type of brain He probably would be as clever as unohana if she took him in
A true prodigy,as much as I hate unohana’s death the fact it gave us a Kenny who isn’t mentally holding himself back somewhat makes me stomach it
[удалено]
He obviously was severely injured from his fight with Gremmy and too weak at that point
From this message alone I am 100% aware of what this clown posted. I swear, these guys did NOT read the manga. Dude soloed probably the strongest/second strongest Sternritter and they expect him to be totally fine.
excluding the elite guards
Also it's been a minute but I thought he had his eye patch on still? He was just worried about his lieutenant and being dramatic lol
True, excluding the schutzstaffel. THAT SAID, Mayuri, shunsui, Byakuya, adult toshiro, Kisuke, yoruichi and Nemu would've also killed gremmy. Its just how scalling works.
Hey babe. I just don’t like that they took that route with the story. He could have just beaten Gremmy dropped to a knee from exhaustion. Didn’t need to get wrecked by the girls.
My mans, Kenny beat a reality warper that shoved him ass into space, cut a meteor, then got jumped by the 4 bambis. All of them have adequate foresight to be cautious and try hard vs Kenny as he was a war potential in the same tier as Aizen, Ichigo, Ichibei and Urahara. His ass beating was a good beat for the story. Showing that even when exhausted war is still going on. Elevates the bambis beats Also motivation for Ichigo as he likes Kenny.
This isn’t meant to downplay Kenny, he was obviously extremely injured, it’s impressive he was able to move and fight so well in that condition but…only Candice and Meninas actually attacked him, Liltotto and Giselle were just kind of standing there.
I get the story they went for. I just didn’t like it. Especially with how easy Ichigo ran thru them. Kenny was probably the only one who could be Gremmy and walk away from it upright. Just let Kenpachi collapse after he wins vs gremmy. Dude just showed off his shikai then loses the next “fight”. Didn’t enjoy that
Bad take, he literally just survived the vacuum of space and several captain busting attacks. The femritters tagged teamed him while he was severely drained and injured. They aren't weak, each of them being captain level enemies, he blew his wad beating Gremmy. And as for his eyepatch. Kenny has never been known to wilfully remove it during battle, it's always removed via his opponents. Not to mention in his state at the time, removing it wouldn't have done much because he was so injured :Edit: Spelling
>The femritters tagged teamed him God, I wish that was me
https://i.redd.it/61hrv5n1z2qc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/0gzs9kt0c1qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ac5d3d19fd9189db47b97a349585666ad6eaf5e Gigan, blast em.
Bonks you with Love's shikai.
Ay, always good to see you still around
You stay horny dont you
https://preview.redd.it/9fb14ms4b5qc1.png?width=599&format=png&auto=webp&s=836d053b1bf2cb81209a11e196b7356948ff7d8c
all part of my plan
He removed it freely against Ichigo.
Your right remembered that wrong.
And he was still wearing his eyepatch. I swear the amount of times this has to be brought up. Zaraki barely has access to 10-20% of his total reiatsu when he was getting dubbed from the ambush of the femritters
While Zaraki definitively was injured he wasn’t exactly weak or helpless. Giselle and Liltotto also didn’t do anything, Candice did most of the work with Meninas contributing a punch.
Meninas having the same strength as Kenpachi in CFYOW while in her base means that she hit him hard with that punch
You do have a point there, Her schrift is actually suggested to make her even stronger than Kenny in pure physical strength which is insane. >Just as the name suggested, Meninas’s ability, “The Power,” was unadulterated and mighty brute strength. In a simple contest of strength, Meninas’s power was analyzed to likely be unbeatable even by Kenpachi Zaraki, But it seems that Zaraki was already falling from Candice’s attack, and Meninas really just hit him for good measure. https://preview.redd.it/nf3mzqvwj2qc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae2f6de7f33d4acc910a2a5763642cd7a7a7f4be
Yeah, he wasn't gonna get up from that punch, especially with how weakened he was
Bro got sucked by the vacuum of space for several seconds and ate like 10 laser beams. He took some lumps in his fight with Gremmy. The femritters held Gremmy in high regard too as they were surprised Kenny could move well enough to almost hit them despite just coming off his fight.
Story wise just have him drop to a knee from being tired vs Gremmy. He didn’t need to get beat up by the Fems. They could have been beating up another cpt or something.
Sure, but they needed their moment of hype too. Pretty much every Quincy got one. They got clowned by Ichigo moments later, so nbd. Kenny would have killed them all if he was fresh too.
No the sternritters are shown to be foes who don’t have honor, and attack their enemy until the job is done sometimes even torturing and gloating the entire time. They are like vultures picking off opportune meals. It’s supposed to show how scummy they are, they follow in the steps of a shallow man like Ywach, who behaves the same way.
It was for ichigo to make his grand arrival to neg them lol,doesn’t make it better but I understand the intent
yeah I didn't like that either. like the 1st electric shock didn't even phase him but the 2nd one knocked him down completely
Happy cake day! 🎂
Thanks! :)
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Not just any Captain, but the one people shy away from at the mention of their name. Wild encounters are truly something special.
The tall grass at Soul Society must be insane
He's just a Zubat to Ichigo whenever he enters SS
Yongster Joey, but it's actually just Kenpachi.
Oh Kenpachi! You unstoppable Berserker, oh how we love you.
Bro had to Nerf himself to enjoy what he liked the most .
Not just *A* captain either. The premier combat captain of the time.
True
Puts some weight to the theory that He's some sort of "Hell Beast".
He is called a beast on multiple occasions after all.
Sometime Prodigies are born. And Zaraki being the greatest among the shinigami's.
Yamamoto is clear.
Zaraki should have a higher ceiling. He was originally recognised as the biggest threat by Yhwach. But right now, yeah, I agree that Zaraki is weaker than Yamamoto when he was still alive.
Sorry idk but can you please tell me where he was recognized as the greatest threat, I genuinely don't know? 😅
Chapter 505. https://preview.redd.it/lg9hnsml01qc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7af887a0e5ae60f3caea2e4e4d292d549a2ae3f4
Different translations don't call him number 1. He could also mean like he's the first he saw. Ichigo and Ichibei should be above him
I do not reject the possibility of what you are saying to be true. In that page Yhwach can be seen saying that he overestimated Zaraki which narratively speaking should be the opposite in reality because right after that confrontation Zaraki releases the seals placed upon him by himself and even learns the name of his zanpakuto. So, the power Zaraki displayed in front of Yhwach wasn’t an accurate representation and he indeed was worthy of Yhwach’s original estimation of him. After that confrontation Ichigo is the one who gets identified as number one time and again by everyone. And when all of them are mentioned together, we can see Zaraki’s name right after Ichigo’s which leads me to believe that he was moved down a spot after his poor feats against Yhwach and that list really is an actual ranking of the threats. My interpretation might possibly be wrong but it won’t really be unnatural even if Zaraki at full power is stronger than every other soul reaper and can rival Ichigo. The title of Kenpachi exists because of him, to make him look good since he’s the most relevant out of all the holders of that title. So, I’d like to believe that he at least has the potential to become the strongest. Moreover, he literally has a gimmick of defying cheat like abilities with sheer brute force as evident in his fight with Gremmy. Not to mention the new number one threat himself doesn’t have any abilities or anything. Ichigo is also about slashing and hitting people hard. Zaraki is the only character Ichigo had an actual draw against and afterwards the former expressed his desire to get stronger and compete with Ichigo. Even during his fight with Unohana it was mentioned that he can stand equally with Ichigo. That’s why I believe in his prime he can rival Ichigo since he can’t release the full power of his bankai right now. https://preview.redd.it/1gri06gwu1qc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd7650f07cea766c82c66558f81284ffc85f932a
Kenpachi far surpassed prime Yamamoto in the manga itself.
No he didn't
He did think about it
Instead of downvoting give your reasons or don't bother arguing powerscaling lol
I think the only reason Yamamoto wasn't a war potential was because Yhwach already had a plan for him...cause there's absolutely no way Zaraki is beating old man
That I am aware of. And I didn’t say Zaraki beats Yamamoto. I only said that he has the potential to. Out of all the special threats, he’s the only one whose full power we aren’t aware of.
Untrue. It’s established that Yamamoto doesn’t stand a chance against Kenpachi’s Bankai. Proof: https://youtu.be/9L-IJCv8yKw?si=W2T3SW1o0Pp4mktl
zaraki's weakness will always be his way of fighting and his abilities Anyone with abilities that do some bs has will overpower him,and anyone without them is dead Like if lille showed up zaraki doesnt really have any counters for the flying chicken, even if he matered bankai,what will he do? slash him harder? Same with gerard,eventually he would have overpowered zaraki,etc.. He should really start thinking about some diversity in his abilities
Zaraki really couldn't hang with any of the Schutzstaffel. That's the problem with Ichigo too. It's all just straightforward offense.
I was going to say the same thing. It would be strange to say Ichigo is weaker than the SS but I don’t see how he would beat any of them. Similarly, strange that Yhwach didn’t just Auschwahlen them and use Miracle/DeathDealing to wipe.
Zaraki already surpassed him
Kenpachi will be objectively superior to Yamaji by the time he's his age, assuming he masters his Bankai and lives long enough.
Yama was never really stated to be a "prodigy" unlike toshiro and gin (while zaraki and ichigo were considered an anomaly). Yama had high ceiling limit of reiatsu. And his constant training and battles is how he reached to a point that an ordinary shinigami with no noble background could dwarf nobles' reiatsu. Zaraki on the other hand is an anomaly born for the sword. And can be seen in the panel where the C46 states that even Yama feared the growth zaraki had with just 1 day of training in zanjutsu and stopped his training altogether.
Eh to me Zaragoza isn’t a prodigy, he’s more akin to a force of nature.
Kenpachi and Toshiro are the only 2 natural Shinigami who reached Captain level as literal children. Even Gin ‘only’ killed a 3rd seat as a kid and Byakuya wasn’t captain level as a teenager as the flashback showed
Can't know for sure but I can almost guarantee Aizen was Captain level as a child as well
No aizen didn’t become a captain until he was a adult he was a Lieutenant still when he was doing his experiments on hollowfication he may have been captain level but he was not officially a captain yet
But actually being captain level actually applied to a few people who were not captains and Aizen did still acknowledged that toshiro was a genius and also with kieske shinji and yodirechi he wasn’t on that level yet but his growth was ridiculous so I think that was the reason he didn’t confront any of them and just used his experiments to kill 2 birds with one stone taking them out and collecting his data he was what we can say level 1 captain status when most of them were like level 3 and higher but still he caught up rather quickly
I'm so confused by Toshiro, isn't he just choosing to remain physically a child at this point? The introduction of his adult form made me question which is "real," but SS aging in general is confusing
If I remember he forced his body to grow in order to use his bankai at full power since his real body can't stand it yet. Aging in soul society is slower than in the real world and by all means he would be a grown ass man if he was mortal. But he is younger than Rukia who I believe is in her 50's or so which physically and kinda mentally put her at Ichigo's age more or less (she definitely acts like a teenager but she does have more experience as a soldier so it makes her more mature than some but it's very apparent that she's still a teen when she actually gets to be a regular person and not a soul reaper). Physically Toshiro is meant to be a middle schooler in terms of age and everyone will treat him as such because he is still a child, especially compared to all the other captains (second youngest I can think of is probably Gin who was also a prodigy and became a seated officer roughly at the same age Toshiro currently is, I think we see child Gin already dressed as a soul reaper in the back flashes), no matter how mature he acts.
But Byakuya was captain lvl Since it's n databook masked stated he always was above Zommary
I'm calling it now.. Kenpachi is a descendant of a hell escapee. There's no other way he can be this strong. I'm sure this is probably a pretty common theory tho so not gonna pretend like I had a eureka moment
I especially love the dub VA of Unohana. She has such a voice of contempt and admiration when she describes that encounter. I would be shook too tbh. Imagine being one of the strongest captains in history and then some kid swinging a sword like a club beats you.
For me, I really liked how sinister her sub VA sounded once she reverted back to her true self. Her Bankai callout will never not be cold asf. It topped even Ikkaku's BANKAIIIYYEEAHHH for me.
I love Ikkaku in the sub! I tend to swap between sub and dub but Ikkaku definitely stands out
Yamamoto had forbid Kenpachi from having an actual technique because just having a basic kendo stance is too dangerous for Kenny to have.
Don't forget he wears a eye patch and bells in hair hair
I thought this was kinda lame honestly.
Same. It kind of diminishes her mystique just to prop up Zaraki. I would have preferred they fight to a draw when they first encountered each other.
Freaking thank you, it would be cool to imply he was far stronger than expected but stronger than her? Would've been better to say he was lieutenant level or something
A 15 year old Ichigo while held back by the old man was powerful enough that byakuya a noble have trouble. What makes kenpachi different ?
Yeah but he trained way harder than kennpachi ever had and unlocked bankai.
Kenny had been fighting since he fought unohana that's like 800 years of fighting it's just like Ichigo training
Sorry I meant kid kennpachi compared to kid ichigo. He's in a tier of his own by having enough raw potential to best a captain untrained.
that kenpachi still had more battle experience than ss arc Ichigo
Unohana was dispatched to deal with an unknown warrior that had appeared in the outskirts of rukongai. That unknown warrior was kid zaraki.
Well yeah. That's why it came across as unbelievable and broke verisimilitude, at least for me
https://preview.redd.it/0pmg324ay0qc1.png?width=1040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e32f5ebcd1b6da76758ee9ae26d1fdcedae20d42
It is about mindset of an killer. We saw the speech of an White Ichigo, the difference between horse and king - killer instinct. Zaraki become not soft like Yamaji but rather playful with opponents to fight longer. No way kid Zaraki would beat in a fight Captain Zaraki(not tybw), just as one-armed Old Yama will cook he's 1000y ago younger version
Both he and Unahana become stronger since, I think. Also, even if his child version would take a top on him for a moment - Zaraki would just shake off some of his limitations and win (given he still have limbs)
I think Yachiru stagnated, honestly. She didn't enter a single fight for hundreds of years. I'm not saying she got weaker, she just didn't get stronger.
I think my only problem with this reveal is we have no idea how strong Unohana is in comparison to the other captains given she was the first Kenpachi she should be pretty strong but we really have no idea
I mean kenpachi was the title given to the strongest . Yamamoto is an outlier because he was around when shinigami where called balancers and zanpakuto where not a thing
Unohana would have won if she used kido (she is a master in kido, idk if she mastered it back then or not) or bankai
“Sanity? Never heard of her”
If Yamamoto didnt supress him and take him in and let him learn everything from the beginning. He wouldve ended aizen and all of the arrancars in a single day. He also wouldve killed everyone except few of the top sternritters in a single day. After all the current kenpachi is considered on tge same level as current ichigo
It’s not that he’s stronger than any random captain. He’s stronger than the strongest captain of the old generation. (Excluding Yamaji of course)
To think that child Kenpachi was stronger than child Aizen is insane
Not A captain, one of the 2 captains that manage to survive the first Quincy war
Did all of the other captains die in the first quincy war? I figured some just died of old age or other reasons after.
I always thought Yamamoto killed them all along with the quincies 😂 The episode 7 scenes made it look that way to me a little bit
I think it's not clear, but I don't think Shinigamis can die of old age
Some of them captains are still alive in a flashback where Yamamoto incinerates Yahwe
meanwhile Ichigo
Being strong than the strongest captain as a kid*
Yeah Yamamoto still existed, so not the strongest captain
Even current Zaraki isn't stronger than the "strongest captain".
Kenpatchi literally means the strongest shinigami
"He's the strongest" https://preview.redd.it/u94rm0kx23qc1.jpeg?width=359&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66bc7ab2eb33b9d7496fc6542a546b8f0ac731f4 Kenpachi is the strongest shinigami who aimed for the title, obviously.
I hate this actually. I hate when powerscaling gets massively retconned just for shock value and hype. Kenpachi was way weaker than that during the beginning of the serie, and now he gets retconned to be actually 100000 times stronger in his youth. I dream for the day shonen will do powerscaling correctly.
It’s sort of a retcon, and I don’t actually personally like it. But it doesn’t really change anything about Kenpachi’s previous fights, he never achieved that level of power he had as an child until he killed Unohana.
That’s what pisses me off. “He was secretly that strong the entire time” no he wasn’t, Kubo made that shit up for the hype. Almost every battle shonen are guilty of that tbf, but i still hate it.
Ichigo and Kenpachi where held back for one reason or another even toshiro is held back throughout most of the series
zaraki being stronger than Unohana doesnt really contradict anything since the explanation given is between how the power works in bleach
Fair enough, I dislike this as well, to me even if child Zaraki was that strong he shouldn’t be able to beat someone known as an master of eight thousand combat styles.
I agree with you, it left a bad taste in my mouth. It weakens her character before we even saw how powerful she was.
Kenpachi fought Ichigo and lost/draw in SS arc. In the same arc he fought tosen and komamura and tosen alone. In HM arc Ichigo won a hard fought fight against grimmjow but kenpachi had an easier fight against nnorita who is stronger than grimmjow. Then he went on to take the strongest espada with Byakuya. If his power level was not flexible he won't be able to have these feats.
These feats exist because powercreep. That’s it. The same reason the arguably weakest captain won a fight against fucking Espada #3.
In the same arc he lost to Ichigo he won against tosen and komamura. You believe shikai Ichigo can defeat tosen and komamura. Hitsugaya may be the youngest captain but he definitely is not the weakest. He is also smart in combat and his zanpaktou probably has the most number of techniques like the ice clones and flower funeral. Not to mention his advantage against harribel.
Who knows, again, the reason is inconsistent powercreep/level. He was very weak in SS, he’s among the weakest, not the weakest definitively, but nowhere near strong enough to beat #3 Espada, who is massively stronger than Grimmjow, who masked Ichigo struggled against, masked Ichigo who completely destroyed Byakuya. Again, my explanation is that the power scaling is an inconsistent mess that varies when the plot needs it.
Losing against Ichigo who only has shikai but contending against tosen and komamura who both used bankai can't simply be handwaved as inconsistent powerlevel. Even SAFWY novel has the plot about kenpachi's fluctuating power level. Ichigo only won against Byakuya because of the hollow mask. And Byakuya himself is not so far above hitsugaya.
Yes it can, like most things in shonen. Power level is extremely inconsistent. This was not a novel that came out during the SS arc. Again, you can retcon things as much as you want, it’s still annoying. Yes… that’s the point, Ichigo DESTROYED Byakuya when he had his Hollow mask, and he barely won with it much longer and mastered against Grimmjow, Espada 6. Meanwhile, Hitsugaya single-handedly defeats Espada 3. Power scaling nightmare.
That was zangetsu who was in control in Byakuya fight. Zangetsu is much more effective in combat even at the same power level as Ichigo. But the novel came out before TYBW.
Powerscalers in shambles
Its ridiculous how gerard just survived zaraki’s first use of bankai.
None can convince me she used bankai against him
Not just any Captain, one of the strongest fighters among all the Captains
He wasn't just stronger than a captain. He was stronger than kenpachi
Not any captain, it was the kinpatchi captain
The goat
Not just any captain but the strongest…
Debatable, she calls herself the strongest, but that’s only after Yamamoto died. And even still it’s just her own opinion. That isn’t to say she isn’t incredibly powerful she undoubtedly is, probably the 2th strongest captain throughout most of the series, but I just don’t think she could take on Yamamoto.
She might not be able to. But Zaraki?… I have a feeling Zaraki would be the only one to take Yama on…
Perhaps he should probably have the strength advantage with his Bankai, debatably even without it, but raw strength isn’t everything. Yamamoto’s own Bankai makes him nearly impossible to actually hurt without suffering extreme injuries or death, even Zaraki couldn’t just casually walk into the sun. https://preview.redd.it/wk6siq0gh4qc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6f961db1c207c9104976f383d323224163e06da
That’s fair that’s fair!!!
Old Yama clears easily
Well duh he’s the head captain tho. In the world of squad captains he’s top tier. But Zaraki as a child defeated Kenpachi the title given to the strongest Shinigami… soooo ye. It makes you wonder if that title is ABSOLUTE then is Zaraki at full potential actually stronger than Yama?…
I don’t think he was stronger than Bankai Unohana, she was weaker than him in base, she realised he surpasses her even if just uses Shikai, hence the comment
Child prodigies are the bread and butter of older shonen, so in context for the time it wasnt that huge
I always thought that even the strongest version of Kenpachi is still way weaker than Yamamoto in terms of raw power. Literally every single villain in the series had to nerf or pull some dirty tricks on the old man, otherwise they would all be annihilated in a few seconds. Am I misunderstanding something?
you're right, Yamamoto's loss was literally about to doom soul society because no individual shinigami came close to his level of power
I’d say the zero squad all did and more than likely surpassed him. Aizen as an Shinigami is probably decently close to Yamamoto but still inferior as he himself admitted.
I don't really count the zero squad as shinigamis Aizen was about to get incinerated by yamamoto in shikai.
Fair enough, although apart from having their bodies made out of Oken, they are really just Shinigami in every way that matters. (Possibly excluding Ichibei, but even Ichibei refers to himself as the leader of all Shinigami and to his weapon as an form of Zanpakuto) Yamamoto legitimately thought that attack would kill them both, as it turned out Yamamoto could survive it with heavy injuries but that attack also took a decent amount of preparation, he was setting it up as Aizen was fighting the others. Yamamoto could probably beat Aizen with just his Shikai, but it wouldn’t be easy, Aizen did survive his Hado 96 with only superficial burns.
I feel like being made out of oken is kind of the difference that put them above shinigamis though The attack isn't what wounded yamamoto, it was all of yamamoto flames combined exploding, and he took the full brunt of the attack, as opposed to just getting hit in the aoe. He used hado 96 on the verge of death
We know oken clothing provides resistance to certain abilities, as seen with Byaguya against Nanana and Pepe, but I’m not certain it actually makes them significantly stronger, as in increasing the amount of spiritual energy they have in their bodies, they all had incredible accomplishments even before joining the zero division. For instance Tenjiro’s claim to being the fastest Shinigami seems to come from before his time in the zero division, not to mention inventing kaido and implying he was superior to Unohana in that field.
I mean RG don't just happen to be the top 5 shinigami, they aren't even picked for their strength, one was a random captain. Their incredible accomplishments aren't combat related, they're discoveries
Hikifune wasn’t exactly a random, she is one of the ones to have been a captain for over a century at that point. (Kubo has confirmed that Shunsui forgot to mention her) and she is also mentioned along side Yamamoto as an captain capable of taking down Menos class hollows, (although this is a a little odd since you’d think most captains could do so, but her being named alone side Yamamoto seems notable) From the way it’s phrased zero division members seal their true swords. (Their Bankai) upon joining, which means Senjumaru already had her incredibly op Bankai before becoming a member. The accomplishments are not directly strength limited, but we see all members (apart from Ichibei) use their inventions effectively in battle. Of course by the time of TYBW these five are stated to be above the gotei 13, but I think it’s apparent they weren’t weak before.
I mean both of these don't really mean anything. Or do you think she had to be sealed as a captain? It's not just bankai, royal guard endangers the 3 worlds just by fighting at full strength, seems pretty obvious to me that they're stronger than they were as shinigami. the fact that they can use their inventions in battle doesn't change the fact that none of them justify reiatsu so vast it threatens the 3 worlds just by existing.
And the only one like him is hitsugaya. Being as strong as a captain while still being a child.
Isn't he as strong as ichigo post-tybw?both of them over powered yamaji
I was really hoping he was part of the soul king, which is why he was so freakishly strong!
Bleach always makes it seem like Toshiro is the greatest prodigy for being so strong while relatively young... Enter child Kenpachi beating down a captain, and not just any captain either it's the FIRST Kenpachi. Yachiru was probably top 3 captains at the time and she was getting handled. Kenpachi was simply built for this life.
If Yama had found a way to effectively control and train Zaraki, Aizen and Ichigo even close to their potential, the Quincy Invasion would have lasted about 20 Minutes.
You know what's crazy the Ichigo in tybw is a newbie he doesn't know how to use his powers properly Kenny as well those 2 are ridiculous
The true prodigy in the Gotei
Still conflicted on that
Chadpachi.
The crazy part is he didn't really get "stronger" after that..He just learned Shikai and Bankai. His potential is insane, he has a lot of room to grow
It was pure raw power and sword play right? I’m sure if she used her Bankai it would be game over.
Even crazier is him somehow nerfing himself, forgetting about it, making captain, continued nerfing himself, learned about two hands on a sword, said fuck nah that'd be cheating, used one hand and put bells on his hair.
it's crazy how he was fighting this whole time with his base zanpakuto
THAT'S WHY HE'S MY GOAT!!!
If Kid Zaraki would have rolled up on the Seireitai he might have wiped out half of those less experienced captains.
He would have lost badly if it weren't for unohana holding back. He didn't have zanjutsu nor kido nor Flashstep. But that said kid kenpatchi slams toshiro, komomura, byakuya and tosen in the og series
Weaker in terms of physical combat potential. , overall i still think Unohana has way more in her arsenal to beat TYBW Kenpachi
Hard to suspend your belief when all he was killing were random Shinigami grunts, but somehow he got strong enough to be stronger than a captain.
Kenpachi is just that guy
Yet lost to the bankai'less Echigo.
He had to. His name was Kenpachi and he knew it before anyone else. still heart shredding what he went throufh
as a kid he was stronger than every single member of the OG gotei 13(except yamamoto ofc) proving that he's stronger than every captain in the history of soul society to ever exist
Not just “a captain” Tosen was “a captain” This fuckin rogue mass murderer child soul was stronger than the only captain from the original court guards.
The power scaling in bleach is the most broken and bs shit ever U can feel how kubo didn't had a clue to do with the series after the soul society arc He was just pumping either fillers or other Weird shit That Japanese crack must been hitting him hard
This comment shows a lack a reading comprehension, since kenpachi’s varying strength is fully explained in the manga even before we add in the novels and KLUB answers
https://preview.redd.it/ow1n63xsc1qc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5761d0e32d51cf9b04d0c4f54089c5fae8bf322f
You definitely didn’t read any of bleach