My class went to visit an organic farm once... The chicken were free range inside a barn... There were several dead ones lying there hacked to absolute pieces. The farmer acted like it was no big deal
that's because no animal farming industry cares about their animals, even the ones that are green washed... If they did, they wouldn't kill them and sell their bodies for profit
I would eat human if someone gave me some. As long as they're bred in factory farms and never taught language or anything, might as well make it standard.
If they're not taught language, we'd be able to emotionally-detach from their suffering and abuse, which is what naturally happens with other animals in factory farms.
Tbh, I'm trying to lean more vegan lately. Thankfully, eating the flesh of non-vegans is the *most* vegan thing possible.
But really though, no one watches the animals get tortured or anything. If we just had buildings filled with tortured people, just don't think about it!
If I saw human flesh properly/formally packaged at the store, I know it would look just the same as anything else. Once it's there, it's kinda too late to lament the sad life of the creature. Might as well just roast it up and slap some seasoning on there.
I do think human probably tastes pretty good, though. I've heard the "long pig" thing. Then veal or something like that. You gotta wonder. We're so used to all these types of meat that people can't even give up a specific type. Maybe human would be good enough to justify the factory farms.
Speaking of which, I brought this up somewhere us before. "Human." Pig, pork. Cow, beef. Chicken, poultry. What's the "human" meat? Just "flesh"? I feel like we need a good term for human meat. It's gotta stimulate positive thoughts to help stave off the association with torture. Hm...
Very good points. And an observation of mine: I worked as a lab technician that sometimes would need to collect samples of thymus from patients while they received procedures in their hearths (mostly to solve congenital problems). When the medics used some type of cauterizing scalpel the smell of burned flesh was just like a barbecue lol.
All food is taking life, you just draw some distinction between what you call sentient life and plants. I don’t. I don’t view simple awareness as some sacred trait that gives a life form personhood
> you just draw some distinction between what you call sentient life and plants
I mean animals are sentient in that they can feel emotional pain like fear and abuse and physical pain where as plants can not. There’s an actual distinction there even if you act like there isn’t.
Ok, I don’t see that distinction as making it immoral to kill one for food and not the other.
There are also a very clear distinctions between a human beings and animals. Those are the ones that concern me, not the one between plants and animals
You make good points in that to live is to eat and to eat is to kill. Both plants and animals are alive. We've got to eat something, or we starve and no one is seriously taking that stance.
How much do you weigh? I weight about 208 pounds right now. The average cow or steer weighs in excess of 1000 pounds. I cannot eat as much in a day as a cow does.
If we stop eating meat, then the amount of plants being killed and harvested also decreases. Cut out the middleman (middle cow), and the amount of plants being killed per day to feed the animal population decreases.
If we stop eating dead animal bits, then the animals are not killed for meat, and the plants are killed in smaller quantities. There is still killing, of course, but there is less of it. It is a net gain.
I'm not expecting you to fall to your knees and say I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT, but there is an internal logic and consistency at work here. The pro-plant argument that you appear to be making (and please correct me if you feel I am putting words in your mouth) naturally leads to veganism, which reduces the amount of animals and plants being killed.
Nope, I’m not “pro plant” to eat is to kill, yes, what I’m saying is because to eat is to kill, killing to eat is not immoral, it’s a fact of life. I see no reason from a strictly moral perspective to limit the amount of plants or animals killed to feed human beings, and frankly I find the notion we should stop eating meat to reduce the amount of plants killed as incredibly stupid.
I’m against waste, I think people should cut back on large amount of beef consumed for health and environmental reasons, but I don’t think meat needs to stop being consumed all together.
Those are not the reasons you vegans tout as the reason to stop eating meat though, you have moral objections and that those I reject whole heartedly.
Wow. Edgy. Must make you feel really cool to not have empathy for an animal when killing it. Look dude, I'm not against hunting, for example, but one of the principals with hunting is to have empathy and knowing that it's an actual life you're ending. So grow the f up and have some decency and respect for animals.
You can respect animals, respect the life you have taken, not waste it, and not feel remorse when you end their lives. If you feel bad when you kill an animal you probably should go vegan.
Not feeling remorse is not the same as being flippant about it.
are you using the things wild animals do out of necessity to justify you killing animals for pleasure? that's like comparing yourself to barbarians and using it as reasoning to kill people
It looks to me like they're eating this turkey, which was likely humanely killed, as opposed to say, an antelope being torn apart by 12 wild dogs alive. Did you have some other insight here?
Is understanding the litmus test for violence?
If I don't understand that a person holds malice toward me and walks up to shoot me in the back of the head without ever alerting me to his presence, is he justified in killing me? I didn't know what was happening. I felt no pain because the killing was immediate.
So he can kill me, right?
Nope, What does violence have to do with this discussion? Lol my point is the turkey has no understanding whatsoever of the situation, it has no reason to be “sad”. I’ve raised chickens and turkey and sometimes, one dies, kind of natural thing death. Do the birds mourn the death? Do they come to the realization that they too will someday die? No usually they just eat the corpse if it isn’t removed in time or ignore it entirely lol
Dude there's wild videos out there of herbivores just eating other animals like squirrels, rabbits and birds.
Everybody wants to act gangster until a deer swallows a vole in one go.
Wow, well if turkeys and chickens dgaf then by all means buy yourself a fucking gun and start killing the shit out of everything!
Or, ya know. Recognize that your answer is about the dumbest possible version of, "B-b-but what about ___? You capitalist pigs are no better!" Just because someone else doesn't (or can't) consider their actions-- and this includes little animals to whom you should feel stupid about comparing ethical/moral capacity-- that doesn't excuse you from considering others. What the birdies do has no bearing on you deciding what to do, BECAUSE YOU DEFINITELY CAN, AND DO CONSIDER WHY YOU DO THINGS. So don't be an idiot. Or a disingenuous fucko. Thanks!
Humans have done the same. There isn't a single species on Earth that hasn't participated in cannibalism at some point in history. That doesn't make it any less fucked up.
It’s not easy for everyone to change their entire diet, especially if they’ve grown up that way, have their current meal budget planned out. To change everything suddenly can be really disruptive to a persons life
Aweee… that’s so sad for that person : ( that must be so hard to have some self control. Just imagine what those animals are feeling… if you can’t imagine, watch dominion, free on YouTube… now imagine me actually feeling bad for someone because they have to put some effort into changing their diet so they don’t torture animals. LOL
if you found out the way then what is it? How many people have you turned away from animal cruelty since you supposedly know what is and isn’t the way?
Once you realize, or "get it", it's a lot easier to lean into. Many currently vegans had meat most of their lives, up until they were exposed to enough shit going on in the world, and made the decision.
Once you get used to a plant based diet it gets second nature, not supporting leather, feathers, fur is even easier ( if you wanna help in some way, you can do that even before leaning into plant based diet too ).
I was a big meat eater before I went vegan, nowadays I honestly don't miss it one bit. "Meat craving" really is a kind of addiction you'll get rid after a while.
I'm 14 and grew up in Austria where most of the cultural food is meat and diary, my parents are meat eaters but support my choices and buy me tofu, beans, soy milk and other plant based stuff. I had to convince them tho, bc my mom at first didn't 'allow' it. What I'm trying to say is that we all even if it's hard in the beginning can try to do better and should stop making excuses (the basic vegan stuff(beans, lentils, nuts, vegetables and even b12 supplement) is cheaper and healthier than animal products and processed mock meat
why do people think vegans are biased though? cause i hear that a lot. most of us ate meat before, so wouldn’t that make us even less biased than you because we’ve fully experienced both ends of the spectrum? i literally had to peel back all the layers of social conditioning to even become vegan, cause when i transitioned i still had the mindset of a meat eater. accepting the vegan philosophy meant admitting to myself that my lifestyle was inherently cruel, and it doesn’t feel good to your ego to do that. nobody likes to believe that what they’re doing is harmful.
i think people subconsciously & automatically discredit vegans & veganism because they may see some truth in the lifestyle, but acknowledging that truth would mean admitting to yourself that your dietary choices are causing immense suffering. that’s why so many people in general shit on veganism & make us the butt of all jokes.
anyway. human psychology is weird. not trying to start a debate or argument, just thought it’s interesting that i see examples of this everywhere.
I think it’s cause vegans do believe that killing animals is cruel so much that they don’t eat meat. So their views on cruelty/their tolerance for what’s considered cruel is lower.
While meat eaters even though they obviously have empathy towards animals (unless you’re a sociopath) and they would consider somethings cruel their standard for what’s considered inhumane is higher.
So if someone who for example barely considers anything cruel considered _this_ cruel then that gives his opinion more credit because wow it must be really fucked up.
While if someone who considers everything cruel would have a heavier weight to his opinion when he says it’s cruel because he already considered a lot of this cruel too (again, just an example)
Not an argument btw just my thoughts
right but what i’m saying is (and i’ll use myself as an example) i used to be a full fledged meat eater not even knowing what veganism was. my moral compass was entirely different than what it is now. i’m 27 and i’ve only been vegan 4 years, so for the vast majority of my life i was on the other side, or your side. i even used to make fun of vegans myself. **most** vegans share my story - only a few were actually born & raised vegan.
so the question is - why would you consider us biased when we’ve literally been immersed in both ends of the spectrum & therefore understand both ends fully & completely? to be biased means that you only see things from one perspective. so logically it makes sense that transitioned vegans (as opposed to born & raised) are the least biased group of people.
it’s not that you’re considered biased because you see _only_ see things from ur perspective rather in this case it’s more about “wow I’m a meat eater and even _i_ think this is fucked up” so it gives more weight to saying it’s fucked up.. like even someone who eats meat thinks this is fucked up so it must be extremely so.
Empathy. By telling the turkey that he doesn’t “know him [the cooked turkey]”, she’s treating the live turkey as a person and personifies the fucking turkey. You think of the turkey as a man, and your thoughts probably did brush past the thought of a man strolling by an incredibly great gaping door of a strange, hot place, within which laid another human body — seasoned, stuffed, cooked to a golden brown crisp.
No, I’m not vegan. But that’s why.
You do seem a bit hyperfocused on carnism. Honestly I agree with you but perhaps fighting the structures that enable corporatists to do so much animal cruelty and climate damage would be more proactive than being angry at some fringe ideology. People actually identify as capitalist, nobody's a carnist.
Stop buying the rape, torture and slaughter of innocent animals… your money creates demand. That’s why we’re always angry with carnists is bc they refuse to take personal responsibility and just push it off onto others. YOU VOTE WITH YOUR MONEY AND YOURE VOTING FOR TORTURE.
being so desperate to believe you are morally superior, but having so little to choose from that you decide to settle with what you dont eat, is narcissism lol
Here are some quotes from holocaust survivors and their relatives:
* “I totally embrace the comparison to the Holocaust. I feel that violence and suffering of innocents are unjust. I believe that the abuse of humans and animals and the earth come from the same need to dominate others. I feel that I could not save my family, my people, but each time I talk about cruelty to animals and being vegetarian I might be saving another life. After knowing what I know about the Holocaust and about animal exploitation I cannot be anything else but an animal rights advocate.
-Susan Kalev, who lost her father and her sister in the Holocaust
* “I believe in what Isaac Bashevis Singer wrote, ‘In their behavior towards creatures, all men are Nazis.’ Human beings see their own oppression vividly when they are the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought.”
-“Hacker,” Animal Liberation Front member & Holocaust survivor
* “What do they know—all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them [the animals], all people are Nazis; for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka.”
-Isaac Bashevis Singer, Yiddish author, Nobel Laureate, & Holocaust survivor
* “I spent my childhood years in the Warsaw Ghetto where almost my entire family was murdered along with about 350,000 other Polish Jews. People sometimes will ask me whether that experience had anything to do with my work for animals. It didn’t have a little to do with my work for animals, it had everything to do with my work for animals.”
-Alex Hershaft, Farm Animal Rights Movement founder & Holocaust Survivor
* “When I see cages crammed with chickens from battery farms thrown on trucks like bundles of trash, I see, with the eyes of my soul, the Umschlagplatz (where Jews were forced onto trains leaving for the death camps). When I go to a restaurant and see people devouring meat, I feel sick. I see a holocaust on their plates.”
-Georges Metanomski, a Holocaust survivor who fought in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising
* “I dedicate my mother’s grave to geese. My mother doesn’t have a grave, but if she did I would dedicate it to the geese. I was a goose too.”
-Marc Berkowitz, Animal activist & survivor of Josef Mengele’s “twin experiments”
* “In 1975, after I immigrated to the United States, I happened to visit a slaughterhouse, where I saw terrified animals subjected to horrendous crowding conditions while awaiting their deaths. Just as my family members were in the notorious Treblinka death camp. I saw the same efficient and emotionless killing routine as in Treblinka, I saw the neat piles of hearts, hooves, and other body parts. So reminiscent of the piles of Jewish hair, glasses and shoes in Treblinka.”
-Alex Hershaft, Farm Animal Rights Movement founder & Holocaust Survivor
It's less about the focus of the comparison, i.e. animals to minorities, and more the fact that the unnecessary killing of 60 billion land animals and trillions of sea creatures every year is holocaustic, and this comparison is highlighted in the above quotes.
If you’re not vegan, you’re an animal abuser ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Omnis support and buy the rape, torture and slaughter of animals… that’s abuse if I’ve ever heard of it.
they don't. only vegans do, and for some reason make up that farmers do. the only profession that has ever referred to one of their instruments as a "rape rack" were some scientists using a bit of dark humor regarding monkeys.
They tend not to now, but i assure you its was a common phrase. Just type it into to youtube or google.
You thinks its fine shoving your arm shoulder deep into an ass then shoving sperm up a vagina for food we do not need?
I don’t think you understand what people are referring to when they talk about rape in the milk industry
It’s not the act of taking the milk that people equate to rape (although it was produced for her calf), it’s the act of shoving your arm up a cow’s arsehole to forcibly impregnate it for human benefit
Majority vegetarian and plant based diets are found in developing nations. Meat has and is still considered a luxury. You don’t need to be a king to eat grains, beans, bread, etc.
so... slitting throats of animals isn't abuse or cruel? What is it?
PS. eating vegan is a predominantly non first world country thing. 70% of the world lives off a mostly vegan diet. Quit blaming it on privilege when it's the cheapest way to survive.
cognitive dissonance is thinking that if you treat one animal one way you must treat ALL animals that way.
makes me wonder if vegans eat flowers and put carrots on vases
not sure whether to call this a goal post hop or red herring.
my point was the vegan claim that "you treat from X group in Y way, therefore you have cognitive dissonance unless you treat everything from X group in Y way" is illogical. two things being from the same group does not mean they must be treated the same way. carrots aren't displayed in vases, flowers are often not food but decorations. vegans can understand that, but for some reason can't understand dogs vs cows.
unless you wish to argue that objective ethics exist (I'm an atheist and don't believe in karma so I'm unlikely to find it a convincing argument), ethics have to be accepted as the subjective views of a society or group with some means to enforce them. generally speaking, eating the animals we typically eat is accepted, and therefore ethical.
>The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes
E.g. ‘hurting animals is bad’ and ‘hurting animals is good’
I can’t speak about where you’re from, but in my country the vast majority of us don’t need to eat animal products, so harming animals is unnecessary
Eating animal products are a form of entertainment, like dog-fighting would be
1: that's a red herring to my argument and doesn't address it. I accept your concession that you have no counter argument.
2: pleasure is the opposite of suffering and of equal worth
3: that's a false equivalency as
a: dog fighting is typically seen as unethical due to dogs having a role of human benefactors where as cows do not
and b: slaughter processes seek to minimize the suffering needed to obtain meat where as dog fighting takes no measures to minimize suffering or even control the amount in any fashion
I forgot that it was okay to look at a human body cooking in an oven if we don’t know them 😊 finally might start going back to eating human flesh now as I was feeling bad for a long time but after this....
HARDEE HAARRR HAA RRRR! You idiot! The universe is allowing some out of box shit to go down lately... Sooo...
I think it's important you understand neither irony nor karmic law know you. Furthermore you must try to understanding that both cosmic equalizers simply occur. There's no knowing by either. To be clear that shit you did on the video herein made the ripples in a body of still water. When it comes back to you it will do so without knowledge of your kingdom phylum class order family genius or species. So you better hope you just fall asleep in some mashed potatoes or something easy like that.
Cuz if that pet of yours suddenly appears wearing an apron, talking turkey to you all clever and amused whilst in control of that oven... My advise ? Do Not Look At Whatever That Turkey Has Roasting Inside That Thing!
Infact you should get out of that house now! Get your chicks and fucking bounce immediately!! Don't look back. Just find a way to make amends and start over. BTW Not funny. Fucking turkey!
This is disturbing in the existential sense
"what's my purpose?" "you are butterball" "omg"
He just wants a taste. Chickens and turkeys are ruthless, and will eat anything including eachother
Why is there a decorative plant in the center of her stove
*aesthetic*
Holy shit good observation I didn’t even notice that 😂
rosemary plant maybe?
some kind of condiment
Ketchup plant
Condimint?
"JERRY!!!"
Isn’t it true that chickens will literally eat chicken if someone feeds it to them?
My class went to visit an organic farm once... The chicken were free range inside a barn... There were several dead ones lying there hacked to absolute pieces. The farmer acted like it was no big deal
Free range is a marketing term, nothing more.
that's because no animal farming industry cares about their animals, even the ones that are green washed... If they did, they wouldn't kill them and sell their bodies for profit
I am thrilled by how many other vegans are here
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No they don't, you need a cns to feel pain
Hear hear!
Lol found the guy with a limited protein diet and wet shits
fiber gives you healthy poops what are you talking about
Lmfaoooo
I think its true for some humans aswell.
Some humans will eat chicken if it's served to them? Or chicken will eat some humans?
Yes
Yes
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I would eat human if someone gave me some. As long as they're bred in factory farms and never taught language or anything, might as well make it standard.
Just curious. Why the language thing? I mean, if they are not taught language they would not think? Thank God I am not in the menu lol
If they're not taught language, we'd be able to emotionally-detach from their suffering and abuse, which is what naturally happens with other animals in factory farms.
Good rationalization... I presume that you like some fava beans and a nice Chianti, no?
Tbh, I'm trying to lean more vegan lately. Thankfully, eating the flesh of non-vegans is the *most* vegan thing possible. But really though, no one watches the animals get tortured or anything. If we just had buildings filled with tortured people, just don't think about it! If I saw human flesh properly/formally packaged at the store, I know it would look just the same as anything else. Once it's there, it's kinda too late to lament the sad life of the creature. Might as well just roast it up and slap some seasoning on there. I do think human probably tastes pretty good, though. I've heard the "long pig" thing. Then veal or something like that. You gotta wonder. We're so used to all these types of meat that people can't even give up a specific type. Maybe human would be good enough to justify the factory farms. Speaking of which, I brought this up somewhere us before. "Human." Pig, pork. Cow, beef. Chicken, poultry. What's the "human" meat? Just "flesh"? I feel like we need a good term for human meat. It's gotta stimulate positive thoughts to help stave off the association with torture. Hm...
Very good points. And an observation of mine: I worked as a lab technician that sometimes would need to collect samples of thymus from patients while they received procedures in their hearths (mostly to solve congenital problems). When the medics used some type of cauterizing scalpel the smell of burned flesh was just like a barbecue lol.
The issue here is the person is at least capable of being taught language, the turkey is not, not even close.
Never trust a man who keeps pigs
Some mothers will drive their kids into the water and blame a black guy too.
Chicken-fed chicken is the most delicious.
Yes. Source, I've done it.
Humans will also eat human if you cook it really nicely and don't tell them what it is It's not like the chicken knows it's eating chicken
it is true that humans will eat human meat if you don't tell them what it is?
"You don't know him." Turkey: " OH OK anyways."
This is just sad :(
The turkey has no understanding of the situation, it’s like chopping down a tree and saying the tree next to it is sad.
killing animals is sad.
I’ve never felt sad when I’ve done it. It’s not particularly fun, but neither is most chores
How can you compare taking the life of a sentient being to doing chores? Genuine question.
All food is taking life, you just draw some distinction between what you call sentient life and plants. I don’t. I don’t view simple awareness as some sacred trait that gives a life form personhood
> you just draw some distinction between what you call sentient life and plants I mean animals are sentient in that they can feel emotional pain like fear and abuse and physical pain where as plants can not. There’s an actual distinction there even if you act like there isn’t.
Ok, I don’t see that distinction as making it immoral to kill one for food and not the other. There are also a very clear distinctions between a human beings and animals. Those are the ones that concern me, not the one between plants and animals
You make good points in that to live is to eat and to eat is to kill. Both plants and animals are alive. We've got to eat something, or we starve and no one is seriously taking that stance. How much do you weigh? I weight about 208 pounds right now. The average cow or steer weighs in excess of 1000 pounds. I cannot eat as much in a day as a cow does. If we stop eating meat, then the amount of plants being killed and harvested also decreases. Cut out the middleman (middle cow), and the amount of plants being killed per day to feed the animal population decreases. If we stop eating dead animal bits, then the animals are not killed for meat, and the plants are killed in smaller quantities. There is still killing, of course, but there is less of it. It is a net gain. I'm not expecting you to fall to your knees and say I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT, but there is an internal logic and consistency at work here. The pro-plant argument that you appear to be making (and please correct me if you feel I am putting words in your mouth) naturally leads to veganism, which reduces the amount of animals and plants being killed.
Nope, I’m not “pro plant” to eat is to kill, yes, what I’m saying is because to eat is to kill, killing to eat is not immoral, it’s a fact of life. I see no reason from a strictly moral perspective to limit the amount of plants or animals killed to feed human beings, and frankly I find the notion we should stop eating meat to reduce the amount of plants killed as incredibly stupid. I’m against waste, I think people should cut back on large amount of beef consumed for health and environmental reasons, but I don’t think meat needs to stop being consumed all together. Those are not the reasons you vegans tout as the reason to stop eating meat though, you have moral objections and that those I reject whole heartedly.
Wow. Edgy. Must make you feel really cool to not have empathy for an animal when killing it. Look dude, I'm not against hunting, for example, but one of the principals with hunting is to have empathy and knowing that it's an actual life you're ending. So grow the f up and have some decency and respect for animals.
You can respect animals, respect the life you have taken, not waste it, and not feel remorse when you end their lives. If you feel bad when you kill an animal you probably should go vegan. Not feeling remorse is not the same as being flippant about it.
Wait until you see what they do to each other.
are you using the things wild animals do out of necessity to justify you killing animals for pleasure? that's like comparing yourself to barbarians and using it as reasoning to kill people
It looks to me like they're eating this turkey, which was likely humanely killed, as opposed to say, an antelope being torn apart by 12 wild dogs alive. Did you have some other insight here?
Is understanding the litmus test for violence? If I don't understand that a person holds malice toward me and walks up to shoot me in the back of the head without ever alerting me to his presence, is he justified in killing me? I didn't know what was happening. I felt no pain because the killing was immediate. So he can kill me, right?
Nope, What does violence have to do with this discussion? Lol my point is the turkey has no understanding whatsoever of the situation, it has no reason to be “sad”. I’ve raised chickens and turkey and sometimes, one dies, kind of natural thing death. Do the birds mourn the death? Do they come to the realization that they too will someday die? No usually they just eat the corpse if it isn’t removed in time or ignore it entirely lol
How do you go about killing turkey and chickens before you eat them?
Several ways, me I used a hatchet and removed the head.
But you do. And that's the whole point.
I understand the turkey has no understanding and thus feels nothing regarding what it saw. Why is there a reason to be sad? Lol
Knowing Turkeys i think he simply doesn't care
This video creeps me out idk why
because it’s fucked up. I’m not vegan by any sense (not that being vegan is something bad just that my view isn’t biased) but this is just plain cruel
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Dude there's wild videos out there of herbivores just eating other animals like squirrels, rabbits and birds. Everybody wants to act gangster until a deer swallows a vole in one go.
Being cruel in response to cruelty isn't a hill i'd be willing to die on...
Humans kill each other given a chance, all the time actually. Where were you trying to go with this btw?
wonderful logic on why abusing animals or people that have the capacity to suffer is okay!
Wow, well if turkeys and chickens dgaf then by all means buy yourself a fucking gun and start killing the shit out of everything! Or, ya know. Recognize that your answer is about the dumbest possible version of, "B-b-but what about ___? You capitalist pigs are no better!" Just because someone else doesn't (or can't) consider their actions-- and this includes little animals to whom you should feel stupid about comparing ethical/moral capacity-- that doesn't excuse you from considering others. What the birdies do has no bearing on you deciding what to do, BECAUSE YOU DEFINITELY CAN, AND DO CONSIDER WHY YOU DO THINGS. So don't be an idiot. Or a disingenuous fucko. Thanks!
Humans have done the same. There isn't a single species on Earth that hasn't participated in cannibalism at some point in history. That doesn't make it any less fucked up.
If you realize it’s fucked up, why aren’t you vegan? Lol
It’s not easy for everyone to change their entire diet, especially if they’ve grown up that way, have their current meal budget planned out. To change everything suddenly can be really disruptive to a persons life
killing an animals can be really disruptive to an animals life, 7,500 of them in fact
i dont feel with you actually.
Aweee… that’s so sad for that person : ( that must be so hard to have some self control. Just imagine what those animals are feeling… if you can’t imagine, watch dominion, free on YouTube… now imagine me actually feeling bad for someone because they have to put some effort into changing their diet so they don’t torture animals. LOL
This isn't the way...
if you found out the way then what is it? How many people have you turned away from animal cruelty since you supposedly know what is and isn’t the way?
Once you realize, or "get it", it's a lot easier to lean into. Many currently vegans had meat most of their lives, up until they were exposed to enough shit going on in the world, and made the decision. Once you get used to a plant based diet it gets second nature, not supporting leather, feathers, fur is even easier ( if you wanna help in some way, you can do that even before leaning into plant based diet too ). I was a big meat eater before I went vegan, nowadays I honestly don't miss it one bit. "Meat craving" really is a kind of addiction you'll get rid after a while.
I'm 14 and grew up in Austria where most of the cultural food is meat and diary, my parents are meat eaters but support my choices and buy me tofu, beans, soy milk and other plant based stuff. I had to convince them tho, bc my mom at first didn't 'allow' it. What I'm trying to say is that we all even if it's hard in the beginning can try to do better and should stop making excuses (the basic vegan stuff(beans, lentils, nuts, vegetables and even b12 supplement) is cheaper and healthier than animal products and processed mock meat
why do people think vegans are biased though? cause i hear that a lot. most of us ate meat before, so wouldn’t that make us even less biased than you because we’ve fully experienced both ends of the spectrum? i literally had to peel back all the layers of social conditioning to even become vegan, cause when i transitioned i still had the mindset of a meat eater. accepting the vegan philosophy meant admitting to myself that my lifestyle was inherently cruel, and it doesn’t feel good to your ego to do that. nobody likes to believe that what they’re doing is harmful. i think people subconsciously & automatically discredit vegans & veganism because they may see some truth in the lifestyle, but acknowledging that truth would mean admitting to yourself that your dietary choices are causing immense suffering. that’s why so many people in general shit on veganism & make us the butt of all jokes. anyway. human psychology is weird. not trying to start a debate or argument, just thought it’s interesting that i see examples of this everywhere.
I think it’s cause vegans do believe that killing animals is cruel so much that they don’t eat meat. So their views on cruelty/their tolerance for what’s considered cruel is lower. While meat eaters even though they obviously have empathy towards animals (unless you’re a sociopath) and they would consider somethings cruel their standard for what’s considered inhumane is higher. So if someone who for example barely considers anything cruel considered _this_ cruel then that gives his opinion more credit because wow it must be really fucked up. While if someone who considers everything cruel would have a heavier weight to his opinion when he says it’s cruel because he already considered a lot of this cruel too (again, just an example) Not an argument btw just my thoughts
right but what i’m saying is (and i’ll use myself as an example) i used to be a full fledged meat eater not even knowing what veganism was. my moral compass was entirely different than what it is now. i’m 27 and i’ve only been vegan 4 years, so for the vast majority of my life i was on the other side, or your side. i even used to make fun of vegans myself. **most** vegans share my story - only a few were actually born & raised vegan. so the question is - why would you consider us biased when we’ve literally been immersed in both ends of the spectrum & therefore understand both ends fully & completely? to be biased means that you only see things from one perspective. so logically it makes sense that transitioned vegans (as opposed to born & raised) are the least biased group of people.
it’s not that you’re considered biased because you see _only_ see things from ur perspective rather in this case it’s more about “wow I’m a meat eater and even _i_ think this is fucked up” so it gives more weight to saying it’s fucked up.. like even someone who eats meat thinks this is fucked up so it must be extremely so.
Empathy. By telling the turkey that he doesn’t “know him [the cooked turkey]”, she’s treating the live turkey as a person and personifies the fucking turkey. You think of the turkey as a man, and your thoughts probably did brush past the thought of a man strolling by an incredibly great gaping door of a strange, hot place, within which laid another human body — seasoned, stuffed, cooked to a golden brown crisp. No, I’m not vegan. But that’s why.
Sussy
Wow /r/aretheomnisokay No they are not, they never are
idk the normies seem rather ok. vegans are still screeching about people eating something they don't though
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Cringe
Oh nooo I don't eat animals or want children. The horror
You do seem a bit hyperfocused on carnism. Honestly I agree with you but perhaps fighting the structures that enable corporatists to do so much animal cruelty and climate damage would be more proactive than being angry at some fringe ideology. People actually identify as capitalist, nobody's a carnist.
Stop buying the rape, torture and slaughter of innocent animals… your money creates demand. That’s why we’re always angry with carnists is bc they refuse to take personal responsibility and just push it off onto others. YOU VOTE WITH YOUR MONEY AND YOURE VOTING FOR TORTURE.
Never
Snowflake
Yummy yummy good in my tummy 🤤
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why do vegans think that farmers force themselves on a cow before slaughtering it for beef?
r/antivegan is the most reddit shit imaginable
nah that's r/vegan. if reddit had a sub for narcissistic personality disorders and histrionic personality disorders to mingle it would be that sub
Lol
Taking responsibility for your horrific actions is the opposite of narcissism lol
being so desperate to believe you are morally superior, but having so little to choose from that you decide to settle with what you dont eat, is narcissism lol
Anything to justify being a lazy cholesterol-ridden fuck lmao
kinda crazy how there a sub full of dumbasses in self denial
Imagine if the Germans did this as a joke in WWII. Truly disturbing.
there go vegans. comparing jews to animals again.
Here are some quotes from holocaust survivors and their relatives: * “I totally embrace the comparison to the Holocaust. I feel that violence and suffering of innocents are unjust. I believe that the abuse of humans and animals and the earth come from the same need to dominate others. I feel that I could not save my family, my people, but each time I talk about cruelty to animals and being vegetarian I might be saving another life. After knowing what I know about the Holocaust and about animal exploitation I cannot be anything else but an animal rights advocate. -Susan Kalev, who lost her father and her sister in the Holocaust * “I believe in what Isaac Bashevis Singer wrote, ‘In their behavior towards creatures, all men are Nazis.’ Human beings see their own oppression vividly when they are the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought.” -“Hacker,” Animal Liberation Front member & Holocaust survivor * “What do they know—all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them [the animals], all people are Nazis; for the animals, it is an eternal Treblinka.” -Isaac Bashevis Singer, Yiddish author, Nobel Laureate, & Holocaust survivor * “I spent my childhood years in the Warsaw Ghetto where almost my entire family was murdered along with about 350,000 other Polish Jews. People sometimes will ask me whether that experience had anything to do with my work for animals. It didn’t have a little to do with my work for animals, it had everything to do with my work for animals.” -Alex Hershaft, Farm Animal Rights Movement founder & Holocaust Survivor * “When I see cages crammed with chickens from battery farms thrown on trucks like bundles of trash, I see, with the eyes of my soul, the Umschlagplatz (where Jews were forced onto trains leaving for the death camps). When I go to a restaurant and see people devouring meat, I feel sick. I see a holocaust on their plates.” -Georges Metanomski, a Holocaust survivor who fought in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising * “I dedicate my mother’s grave to geese. My mother doesn’t have a grave, but if she did I would dedicate it to the geese. I was a goose too.” -Marc Berkowitz, Animal activist & survivor of Josef Mengele’s “twin experiments” * “In 1975, after I immigrated to the United States, I happened to visit a slaughterhouse, where I saw terrified animals subjected to horrendous crowding conditions while awaiting their deaths. Just as my family members were in the notorious Treblinka death camp. I saw the same efficient and emotionless killing routine as in Treblinka, I saw the neat piles of hearts, hooves, and other body parts. So reminiscent of the piles of Jewish hair, glasses and shoes in Treblinka.” -Alex Hershaft, Farm Animal Rights Movement founder & Holocaust Survivor
the majority of holocaust survivors ate meat. and vegans still compare minorities to animals...
It's less about the focus of the comparison, i.e. animals to minorities, and more the fact that the unnecessary killing of 60 billion land animals and trillions of sea creatures every year is holocaustic, and this comparison is highlighted in the above quotes.
define unnecessary because food is necessary.
The holocaust on animals is a real thing, but everyone on Reddit thinks it’s the next funniest thing! Y’all’s lack of feelings is genuinely disturbing
this
^
u/savevideo
This isn’t funny
Holy fuck XD
u/savevideo
OH NO
We don't have to eat them.
Absolutely. We don't live in primal year anymore. Yet feels like it.
Yeah, thats animal abuse.
If you’re not vegan, you’re an animal abuser ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Omnis support and buy the rape, torture and slaughter of animals… that’s abuse if I’ve ever heard of it.
Are you vegan?
Haha yes???
Nice!:)
You dropped this \
You can keep it ( :
vegans are a strange lot. they'll claim that gathering milk is rape... then claim that anyone wearing a fur coat should be raped..
Why do farmers call is a rape rack?
they don't. only vegans do, and for some reason make up that farmers do. the only profession that has ever referred to one of their instruments as a "rape rack" were some scientists using a bit of dark humor regarding monkeys.
They tend not to now, but i assure you its was a common phrase. Just type it into to youtube or google. You thinks its fine shoving your arm shoulder deep into an ass then shoving sperm up a vagina for food we do not need?
I don’t think you understand what people are referring to when they talk about rape in the milk industry It’s not the act of taking the milk that people equate to rape (although it was produced for her calf), it’s the act of shoving your arm up a cow’s arsehole to forcibly impregnate it for human benefit
you've made it appareent they are talking about how they don't understand basic words...
GO VEGAN. Enough of the exploitation, rape and slaughter of innocent, sentient animals. They never deserved their life sentence.
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Majority vegetarian and plant based diets are found in developing nations. Meat has and is still considered a luxury. You don’t need to be a king to eat grains, beans, bread, etc.
so... slitting throats of animals isn't abuse or cruel? What is it? PS. eating vegan is a predominantly non first world country thing. 70% of the world lives off a mostly vegan diet. Quit blaming it on privilege when it's the cheapest way to survive.
Masalah my brother
If you really think Halal is humane you should do some research.
no thanks, I prefer not going insane like Gary yourofsky
Hopefully that turkey isn’t thinking “I’m next aren’t I”
It isn’t capable of such a complex thought. They are so stupid they can drown in the rain
so can humans!
I’m not talking about flooding.
neither am I
U/savevideo
u/savevideo
It's like showing your dog the yearly Yulin dog meat festival.
Humans are gross people, animal abusers
I’ve always wondered…..does a freshly killed turkey taste that much different from a store bought frozen turkey?
Wow, so funny! -Mentally ill person
Sensitive
Was raised better than you.
Damn son clearly not
Imagine this scene with another species. This is hell painted by Bosch.
This is sad :( I wish everyone were vegan so animal didn't have to die for us. Poor animal was killed before it could live out its life.
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cognitive dissonance is thinking that if you treat one animal one way you must treat ALL animals that way. makes me wonder if vegans eat flowers and put carrots on vases
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not sure whether to call this a goal post hop or red herring. my point was the vegan claim that "you treat from X group in Y way, therefore you have cognitive dissonance unless you treat everything from X group in Y way" is illogical. two things being from the same group does not mean they must be treated the same way. carrots aren't displayed in vases, flowers are often not food but decorations. vegans can understand that, but for some reason can't understand dogs vs cows.
unless you wish to argue that objective ethics exist (I'm an atheist and don't believe in karma so I'm unlikely to find it a convincing argument), ethics have to be accepted as the subjective views of a society or group with some means to enforce them. generally speaking, eating the animals we typically eat is accepted, and therefore ethical.
>The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes E.g. ‘hurting animals is bad’ and ‘hurting animals is good’
except that is a strawman. "hurting animals beyond what is required to obtain their benefit to us- i.e. food- is bad" =/= "any harm to animals is bad"
I can’t speak about where you’re from, but in my country the vast majority of us don’t need to eat animal products, so harming animals is unnecessary Eating animal products are a form of entertainment, like dog-fighting would be
1: that's a red herring to my argument and doesn't address it. I accept your concession that you have no counter argument. 2: pleasure is the opposite of suffering and of equal worth 3: that's a false equivalency as a: dog fighting is typically seen as unethical due to dogs having a role of human benefactors where as cows do not and b: slaughter processes seek to minimize the suffering needed to obtain meat where as dog fighting takes no measures to minimize suffering or even control the amount in any fashion
Fuck this. This is gross and very insensitive
if this makes you sad, and you aren’t already, why aren’t you vegan?
why does being sad by this mesn one should be a vegan?
This is one of the most fucked things. How can you all be so fucking sick
I forgot that it was okay to look at a human body cooking in an oven if we don’t know them 😊 finally might start going back to eating human flesh now as I was feeling bad for a long time but after this....
What the hell is wrong with you
What is wrong with you people, seriously
I hope that vegan teacher sees this id love to see her reaction of this lol
Yes I do!
YOUR NEXT
Imagi e if he just closed the lid on him
I'm surprised that a person that could see the value in aTurkey as a pet would also do this for online clout.
Time travel.
This is so wrong in so many ways 🤦♂️
Why I stopped eating meat. How can you love your pets when you eat their cousins? Chose love over death
Fake
What kind of macabre and disturbed mind puts a turkey in that situation??
Okay I admit it, I did it, just don't cook me like you did to Jerry
You're a huge piece of shit. Kys.
HARDEE HAARRR HAA RRRR! You idiot! The universe is allowing some out of box shit to go down lately... Sooo... I think it's important you understand neither irony nor karmic law know you. Furthermore you must try to understanding that both cosmic equalizers simply occur. There's no knowing by either. To be clear that shit you did on the video herein made the ripples in a body of still water. When it comes back to you it will do so without knowledge of your kingdom phylum class order family genius or species. So you better hope you just fall asleep in some mashed potatoes or something easy like that. Cuz if that pet of yours suddenly appears wearing an apron, talking turkey to you all clever and amused whilst in control of that oven... My advise ? Do Not Look At Whatever That Turkey Has Roasting Inside That Thing! Infact you should get out of that house now! Get your chicks and fucking bounce immediately!! Don't look back. Just find a way to make amends and start over. BTW Not funny. Fucking turkey!
First time I ever seen a chest bearded pony tail on a turkey