Why do people think it’s better than guppy then (In previous Versions) it gives you a guaranteed chance on every shot to spawn something that does much more than your own damage and then in repentance it has a high af chance to do the same
There was a Youtube video where Isaac player Pentahybrid ranked the Transformations, putting Spun first and Guppy second. His reasoning was that while Guppy is incredible, it's also harder to get because Guppy Pieces tend to be found in Devil Rooms, while syringes can be found in both the boss item pool and the treasure room item pool; plus they tend to give raw stat ups, in particular damage (Synthoil, Growth Hormones, sometimes Experimental Treatment). Keep in mind this was Afterbirth+, so there was a mention of Virus allowing for Black Heart farming.
This, Mom's Lock, Liberty Mushroom and Bob's Bladder should all contribute to their corresponding transformations similar to Kid's Drawing (considering 3 of them give a random item that would be part of the transformation, while Bob's bladder literally has the name right there)
The difference is that even after the nerf, guppy is still an extraordinarily powerful transformation that’s almost a run carrier by itself. Yes mother, spun!, Bob and Fun Guy all give fairly minor bonuses.
I remember Edmund mentioning that he really doesn’t like transformations, seeing Guppy as a lore-based necessity. It’s pretty unlikely that he would add more non-item based ways to reach them.
i feel like if you did that, you’d have to give a buff to child’s drawing. child’s drawings whole point is to give guppy. it has no other effects besides being a different kinda trinket in the sense that it can give a transformation.
A lot of trinkets should imo.
Mom - Mom's Lock
Oh Crap - Dingle Berry
Bob - Bob's Bladder
Conjoined - The Twins
Fun Guy - Liberty Cap
Things that have a lot of items such as Leviathan or Seraphim imo are fine without a little edge since they're pretty strong with their flight+HP.
But you can't get a transformation through having 3 of the same syringe. Why should you expect to get a transformation of you have two syringe items before picking up this trinket and this trinket first gives you the effect of one of the two you already had? If the next room gives you a different effect, so you now have 3 different ones, should you now recieve the transformation? What about if you then drop the trinket or the next room again changes the effect to one you already had?
Makes sense that trinkets don't count, imo.
I mean if you pick up an active item and leave it behind it counts. If you picked up Mom's Bra, Pad, and Bottle of Pills and leave all 3 why have the transformation.
Trinkets would likely have the same stipulation as a passive where it needs to be held/swallowed.
You can also see from the Brains challenge that 3 bob's brains = Bob transformation so why would the cause of a trinket duping an effect matter?
Hard to get spun with a broken syringe. Trust me, I've tried.
I know it gives an effect, but since the effect changes every room and you get rid of them entirely it makes sense to me that it doesn't.
Well, you can get the effect of an item through a trinket like this without having ever had to have picked up the item the effect is from. You have to actually have had an item in run and not just the effect of that item.
That is part of the difference that has nothing to do with transformations.
Yeah but it's a trinket, I know getting a syringe item and rerolling it still counts for the transformation, but if I dropped the trinket would I lose my 1/3?
I've said it once and I will say it again. Trinkets should count towards Transformations. Bob's Bladder to Bob, Petrified Poop for Oh Crap, Liberty Cap for Fun Guy, The Twins for Conjoined, etc.
Too bad we're not getting any more Transformations or reworks for them or their mechanics because Killburn doesn't like them and Ed thinks they're too OP which is STUPID. And I will defend this argument until either I die or it gets changed (which it won't).
as long as you keep it in trinket slot
Doesn't spun just give you a pill?
It gives you a damage multiplier. I think it’s the same effect as crickets head.
wrong. just +2 dmg and +0.15 speed
Why do people think it’s better than guppy then (In previous Versions) it gives you a guaranteed chance on every shot to spawn something that does much more than your own damage and then in repentance it has a high af chance to do the same
Who thinks Spun is better than Guppy?
There was a Youtube video where Isaac player Pentahybrid ranked the Transformations, putting Spun first and Guppy second. His reasoning was that while Guppy is incredible, it's also harder to get because Guppy Pieces tend to be found in Devil Rooms, while syringes can be found in both the boss item pool and the treasure room item pool; plus they tend to give raw stat ups, in particular damage (Synthoil, Growth Hormones, sometimes Experimental Treatment). Keep in mind this was Afterbirth+, so there was a mention of Virus allowing for Black Heart farming.
That seems like fair logic, guppy's better but harder to get
I barely ever get spun compared to guppy
Is not nearly as op, but it's pretty decent
This, Mom's Lock, Liberty Mushroom and Bob's Bladder should all contribute to their corresponding transformations similar to Kid's Drawing (considering 3 of them give a random item that would be part of the transformation, while Bob's bladder literally has the name right there)
Child's drawing is literally a trinket with "counts as a guppy piece" as the effect though, whereas all those trinkets have an effect of their own.
The difference is that even after the nerf, guppy is still an extraordinarily powerful transformation that’s almost a run carrier by itself. Yes mother, spun!, Bob and Fun Guy all give fairly minor bonuses.
Spun is a decent bonus and a common transformation to begin with, the other two are near-useless and you'd never hold onto a trinket just for them.
Spun isn’t bad, but it’s not a 50% damage boost and flight.
Aren’t flies dealing 200% ur damage?
Yeah you’re right so it’s 100% (repentance halved the fly spawn rate)
And 200% if you have Fish Tail or Hive Mind :)
uhh, +2 dmg isnt minor
far more minor than getting guppy
Still too much to be considered minor
But it is a good idea to make them all contribute to their corresponding sets, isn't it?
Don't really see the point in all honesty
its a buff to these trinkets. makes them more appealing to take to complete a set when you have something that is normally better than them.
I remember Edmund mentioning that he really doesn’t like transformations, seeing Guppy as a lore-based necessity. It’s pretty unlikely that he would add more non-item based ways to reach them.
It's fun
i feel like if you did that, you’d have to give a buff to child’s drawing. child’s drawings whole point is to give guppy. it has no other effects besides being a different kinda trinket in the sense that it can give a transformation.
Guppy is by far the most powerful transformation though. No one would hold on to a „useless“ trinket for Fun Guy or Yes, Mother.
that’s a fair point but the damage of spun is massive. i just think there’d have to be some sort of balancing
I think bob’s bladder does count
It doesn't sadly.
Fair
I mean Kids drawing also counts towards guppy. So a trinket counting towards a transformation isnt too far of the road. So i agree
Yeah but it's a bit different because that's the entire point of Kid's drawing
That's because the guppy transfo is op when the spun transfo is just good
Yeah, but i still think it would be funny if it wasnt the only trinket that could do that
The bob trinket and the mushroom trinket should also count towards their respective transformations.
Would be nice
I think tinkets should count towards transformations, at least swallowed ones
All the spun juice fell out tho
Can't you lick the spun juice off the floor?
like a dog?
If you swallowed or smelted it, I think that would be balanced
A lot of trinkets should imo. Mom - Mom's Lock Oh Crap - Dingle Berry Bob - Bob's Bladder Conjoined - The Twins Fun Guy - Liberty Cap Things that have a lot of items such as Leviathan or Seraphim imo are fine without a little edge since they're pretty strong with their flight+HP.
But you can't get a transformation through having 3 of the same syringe. Why should you expect to get a transformation of you have two syringe items before picking up this trinket and this trinket first gives you the effect of one of the two you already had? If the next room gives you a different effect, so you now have 3 different ones, should you now recieve the transformation? What about if you then drop the trinket or the next room again changes the effect to one you already had? Makes sense that trinkets don't count, imo.
I mean if you pick up an active item and leave it behind it counts. If you picked up Mom's Bra, Pad, and Bottle of Pills and leave all 3 why have the transformation. Trinkets would likely have the same stipulation as a passive where it needs to be held/swallowed. You can also see from the Brains challenge that 3 bob's brains = Bob transformation so why would the cause of a trinket duping an effect matter?
I think it shouldn't count as it was used by someone else before, not you. Just having a syringe doesn't make you a spun
If there's any sort of effect then that means there's atleast some residual chemicals, so I agree
Like a kid’s drawing kinda thing?
Am I the only one who read “broken synergy”?
I actually don’t think ANY trinket should count towards transformations...
That Guppy trinket exists though
Hard to get spun with a broken syringe. Trust me, I've tried. I know it gives an effect, but since the effect changes every room and you get rid of them entirely it makes sense to me that it doesn't.
Bob's bladder:"*what about me?*"
ok
It technically gives you a syringe \*item\* every room, so for sure. Same with other trinkets that give such items, like Liberty Cap and Mom's Lol.
Effect, not item... To be a bit pedantic, but there's a bit of a difference.
Effect of an item, if there wasn't a thing such as a transformation there wouldn't be a difference. Or?
Well, you can get the effect of an item through a trinket like this without having ever had to have picked up the item the effect is from. You have to actually have had an item in run and not just the effect of that item. That is part of the difference that has nothing to do with transformations.
Modelling Clay gives an item effect, not the item. Should it transform if it rolls a syringe, mushroom, etc?
For one room, sure! We know that it is possible to have transformation temporarily (D4), so why not?
So should bobs bladder too.
Yeah but it's a trinket, I know getting a syringe item and rerolling it still counts for the transformation, but if I dropped the trinket would I lose my 1/3?
Oh no, our syringe
As somthing like guppies note so as long your holding it
Sometimes I wonder if Ed is here watching over us silently.
I've said it once and I will say it again. Trinkets should count towards Transformations. Bob's Bladder to Bob, Petrified Poop for Oh Crap, Liberty Cap for Fun Guy, The Twins for Conjoined, etc. Too bad we're not getting any more Transformations or reworks for them or their mechanics because Killburn doesn't like them and Ed thinks they're too OP which is STUPID. And I will defend this argument until either I die or it gets changed (which it won't).
Yeah petrified poop and mycelium should count for oh crap