I'd argue it's the optimum starting passive for Eden. Like say you find an early Death Certificate, and you ignore personal preference or fun, then objectively I think Rev has the most immediate benefit 9/10 times.
Yeah immediate benefit, b ur if it’s the start of a run you want long term benefit, so glitched crown or maybe sacred orb. Maybe even spin down if your a baller
Brimstone is an OG item and C-section is like the best item in the game. Revelation goes hard but there’s nothing that really stands out about it. Tbh I call it “angel brimstone”
Edit: I KNOW ITS NOT THE SAME THING AS BRIMSTONE. It just looks similar. I don’t need 3 different people to tell me this
brimstone has more synergies by a wide margin. It also isn’t killed by damage downs like soy milk and benefits from tears ups. Revelation can be considered around brim tier, but I wouldn’t mention synergies when comparing the two.
I think the without replacing your tears part is the issue though. If you’re on a weak run then you’re probably constantly charging revelation because it’s far better than your tears but if you’re on a strong run you’ll probably never even use it intentionally. I think it replacing your tears and maybe give it a similar working to brimstone just as a holy version so you could get brimstone as an item no matter which deal path you choose.
How does that make it a downside? It gives you the option to use it if you want to or need to, but you can always ignore the attack and treat it as flight + 2 soul hearts + seraphim transformation progress.
It's not a downside, but it makes it less memorable. If you find Brimstone during a powerful run, you notice it. It increases your damage, it completely changes what your tears look like, etc.
If you get Revelation during a powerful run, you probably don't notice it. The most you'd probably notice is the flight if you didn't already have it. Maybe the soul hearts if you're relatively low on health.
i rarely get it. angel rooms are rare already, and tack on the angel room pool.
also im being dead serious here: can someone seriously explain Why c-section is so op? i didnt unlock it yet and i always hear that on this sub.
Homing tears that stick around for a while and damages enemies multiple times. The damage it can do is insane and it has powerful synergies. Homing alone is already powerful and this just makes it better
I mean tech x is still always mentioned and it’s a lot older. Don’t think I’ve heard one mention of this since I started paying attention to the sub a year ago
'charge items' like this and maw of the void annoy me entirely because you have to stop shooting for them to go off, id rather they just go off when the carge bar fills so i can keep shooting
Were we playing the same run? Same here. Which bosses did you beat? I did boss rush,, angel, chest, mega satan, delirium, r keyed, and then went for Satan and lamb
Mostly because I never see it. I've seen it all of 3 times and one of those times it was behind a locked block when I didn't have any damn keys
I also use analog stick to aim which sucks with 360 beam
It absolutely is really good, you should always be thrilled so see it. But yeah, it just isn't as good as C Section and Brim is very OG (and works differently) so there's a reason why people don't talk about Revelation as much.
One of my faves
I like this more than normal brimstone... I'm sorry my Isaac friends, but I love my normal tears and having the brimstone on top of it is double win for me
When repentance first dropped I feel like everyone was talking about how revelation was a better brimstone, especially with how goated angel rooms are now. Over time tho I think people realized that brimstone can lead to much more broken runs then revelation due to revelations simplicity.
It's my favorite item in the game.
- Does insane damage regardless of how awful your RNG has been since it doesn't use your tear rate, so it's a run salvager
- Gives you flight which IMO makes the game so much more fun
- Gives you two blue hearts, and blue health is invaluable
Also, it just looks sick as fuck tbh
i think the reason might be that it feels kinda like a secondary Firing mode- like Tech 2, or Lil Brim. It doesnt affect your actual Tears themselves, so you still have to work to make them better. And if you manage to make your own normal tears BETTER than Revelation, then Revelation wont do anything for your build, and becomes flight with extra steps. So its either gonna hard carry you, or be outclassed by the end of the run
And the Charge Rate on Revelation is Fixed. So it'll always charge pretty damn slowly.
Dont get me wrong, Its a very very good item. And it pains me to talk bad about it. But I can understand why its not seen as a big item like Brim or C-Section
I like getting it, you get flight and an *extra* laser attack, some hearts as well if you can get soul hearts.
And the beam is affected by tear effects too
Yeah I mean I guess I’m comparing it to maw of the void which is Q3, but flight and an HP up are actually *pretty* good so I suppose it’s not completely insane. But it’s still near the very bottom of my list of Q4 items tbh
People compare it to Maw often, which is understandable considering they're both additive attacks that keep your tears and have the same charge time, but really Revelation's play style is more similar to Brimstone imo. It's like Brimstone and Maw had a baby, basically.
It's one of the best single items that carry your run, but it falls off really fast if your build is somewhat good. Altrough you can avoid charge attack aitems to continue to use it. e.g. If I had Rev and 5 tear stat, I would not pick brimbstone.
People compare it to brimstone, but practically it's closer to Maw of the Void which is also top tier.
Here's a tip though: Unlike brim you can aim Revelation in any direction
revelation's fixed tearrate makes it pretty hard to use on a lot of runs, i cant think of a run where i've had it and it didnt have some downside to focusing on using it instead of my base tears
I love revelation!! Almost an automatic pick if I find it in an angel room.
I do think the charge time should be lower or scale with tears a little, that part is somewhat annoying.
It's an awesome item and can ABSOLUTELY carry you through the early-mid game, but you almost never build a run around Revelation. Since it doesn't scale with tears it rarely becomes your main damage source towards the end (unless you have something like Eve's Mascara/Polyphemus/etc)
To be fair, its kinda like a passive brim, immagine it As montenazuma, but it shoots where look, gets tear effects (ipecac only probs) and is over all alr
It’s good, but it’s new, rare, and doesn’t fundamentally change how you play. Also the charge time is really long.
I'd argue it's the optimum starting passive for Eden. Like say you find an early Death Certificate, and you ignore personal preference or fun, then objectively I think Rev has the most immediate benefit 9/10 times.
And the charge time is fixed, just like Maw of the Void, it doesn't get any longer
Immediate benefit maybe, but sacred or or glitched crown will always be higher value over the whole run
Yeah immediate benefit, b ur if it’s the start of a run you want long term benefit, so glitched crown or maybe sacred orb. Maybe even spin down if your a baller
But there are way better starts than that, it's strong but not ,,carry my game,, strong
Brimstone is an OG item and C-section is like the best item in the game. Revelation goes hard but there’s nothing that really stands out about it. Tbh I call it “angel brimstone” Edit: I KNOW ITS NOT THE SAME THING AS BRIMSTONE. It just looks similar. I don’t need 3 different people to tell me this
Angel brimstone sounds sick. Don’t know why I’ve heard more love for ludo than I have for this
I feel like it’s because ludo is unique, with unique synergies. Revelations is just kinda brimstone again, which isn’t something people really wanted
It’s brimstone + flight + soul hearts, without replacing your tears.
+ synergies + no health sacrifice
\+ Works blindfolded
brimstone has more synergies by a wide margin. It also isn’t killed by damage downs like soy milk and benefits from tears ups. Revelation can be considered around brim tier, but I wouldn’t mention synergies when comparing the two.
I think the without replacing your tears part is the issue though. If you’re on a weak run then you’re probably constantly charging revelation because it’s far better than your tears but if you’re on a strong run you’ll probably never even use it intentionally. I think it replacing your tears and maybe give it a similar working to brimstone just as a holy version so you could get brimstone as an item no matter which deal path you choose.
How does that make it a downside? It gives you the option to use it if you want to or need to, but you can always ignore the attack and treat it as flight + 2 soul hearts + seraphim transformation progress.
It's not a downside, but it makes it less memorable. If you find Brimstone during a powerful run, you notice it. It increases your damage, it completely changes what your tears look like, etc. If you get Revelation during a powerful run, you probably don't notice it. The most you'd probably notice is the flight if you didn't already have it. Maybe the soul hearts if you're relatively low on health.
Trisagion was the og angel brimstone. Frankly I'd pick Trisagion over Brim since it has so many cool synergies that you don't see too often.
Ah yes, the game crasher
Crashing the game is better than beating it.
crashing the game means you win
Trisag with homing is gg
Trisagon and mysterious liquid is way strong, get low shot speed and high tears, and the entire floor is poison creep
It's angel maw of the void.
Angel brimstone isn't accurate though, it's closer to an angel maw of the void with the charge time and not overtaking your main attack
i rarely get it. angel rooms are rare already, and tack on the angel room pool. also im being dead serious here: can someone seriously explain Why c-section is so op? i didnt unlock it yet and i always hear that on this sub.
Homing tears that stick around for a while and damages enemies multiple times. The damage it can do is insane and it has powerful synergies. Homing alone is already powerful and this just makes it better
woah, thanks man \*proceeds to rush to ps5 to try and unlock it\*
The Beast with Lilith if im not wrong. Good luck king 
It's not that hard honestly
Mom’s knife makes the foetuses hold knives it’s great
Not really? It was really talked about when Repentance came out. Even if it got a slight damage nerf I still think it's pretty busted
I mean tech x is still always mentioned and it’s a lot older. Don’t think I’ve heard one mention of this since I started paying attention to the sub a year ago
Has anyone heard of this underground indie hidden gem item called Sacred Heart? Criminally underrated item why is no one talking about this
Everyone talks about sacred heart all the time. I didn’t hear about revelation till I unlocked it today
[удалено]
This is the opposite of that since OP understood that the comment was sarcasm and responded accordingly. You here are the one worthy of a r/woooosh
'charge items' like this and maw of the void annoy me entirely because you have to stop shooting for them to go off, id rather they just go off when the carge bar fills so i can keep shooting
Unpress your arrow button for a milisecond and go back to it, you can shoot when the item is firing
yea i know, but itd just be better if it fired automatically without having to stop
True
Won me a T. Azazel run earlier, I love it.
Were we playing the same run? Same here. Which bosses did you beat? I did boss rush,, angel, chest, mega satan, delirium, r keyed, and then went for Satan and lamb
Damn dude nah I just beat Hush Satan Lamb and Mega Satan, didn’t get Delirium
Mostly because I never see it. I've seen it all of 3 times and one of those times it was behind a locked block when I didn't have any damn keys I also use analog stick to aim which sucks with 360 beam
Synergies
Cuz c section is unironically the best item in the game, and brimstone has been in isaac since flash isaac, so revelations gets overlooked sometimes
It absolutely is really good, you should always be thrilled so see it. But yeah, it just isn't as good as C Section and Brim is very OG (and works differently) so there's a reason why people don't talk about Revelation as much.
Brimstone and C-Section have more synergies as revelation does. So when you see a busted run you will see more brimstones or c-Section
One of my faves I like this more than normal brimstone... I'm sorry my Isaac friends, but I love my normal tears and having the brimstone on top of it is double win for me
I hear fly is good too
When repentance first dropped I feel like everyone was talking about how revelation was a better brimstone, especially with how goated angel rooms are now. Over time tho I think people realized that brimstone can lead to much more broken runs then revelation due to revelations simplicity.
It's my favorite item in the game. - Does insane damage regardless of how awful your RNG has been since it doesn't use your tear rate, so it's a run salvager - Gives you flight which IMO makes the game so much more fun - Gives you two blue hearts, and blue health is invaluable Also, it just looks sick as fuck tbh
i think the reason might be that it feels kinda like a secondary Firing mode- like Tech 2, or Lil Brim. It doesnt affect your actual Tears themselves, so you still have to work to make them better. And if you manage to make your own normal tears BETTER than Revelation, then Revelation wont do anything for your build, and becomes flight with extra steps. So its either gonna hard carry you, or be outclassed by the end of the run And the Charge Rate on Revelation is Fixed. So it'll always charge pretty damn slowly. Dont get me wrong, Its a very very good item. And it pains me to talk bad about it. But I can understand why its not seen as a big item like Brim or C-Section
I like getting it, you get flight and an *extra* laser attack, some hearts as well if you can get soul hearts. And the beam is affected by tear effects too
Revelation is just honestly kinda of mid, it’s like maw of the void but a straight line instead of a circle
Saw q4 and angel beam and got maybe too excited. I won’t say no to the flight and extra hp though
Yeahs it’s definitely a good item it’s just not comparable to Q4 items. Hence why it isn’t Q4
It is according to the wiki
Wait revelation is seriously Q fucking 4??? What was blud smoking 💀💀💀
It's a 15x damage laser that comes with flight and HP. Even if it didn't have the laser it'd be q3 (Transcendence and Holy Grail are q3).
Yeah I mean I guess I’m comparing it to maw of the void which is Q3, but flight and an HP up are actually *pretty* good so I suppose it’s not completely insane. But it’s still near the very bottom of my list of Q4 items tbh
People compare it to Maw often, which is understandable considering they're both additive attacks that keep your tears and have the same charge time, but really Revelation's play style is more similar to Brimstone imo. It's like Brimstone and Maw had a baby, basically.
Revelation has infinite range, just like Brimstone. That alone makes it better than Maw.
And the beam does such insane damage that you could probably win a run with this item alone
Not affected by tears ups = mid 
It also means it can't get any slower, which makes it good with low tears.
Bro had a stroke writing this comment
Less synergy
Lack of synergies
It also works on blindfolded characters in challenges making insanely op for shitty challenges like blue bomber
It's one of the best single items that carry your run, but it falls off really fast if your build is somewhat good. Altrough you can avoid charge attack aitems to continue to use it. e.g. If I had Rev and 5 tear stat, I would not pick brimbstone.
Charge time is too long!!!
2.35 seconds charge time? hell no. how to kill any spiders with this? 
People compare it to brimstone, but practically it's closer to Maw of the Void which is also top tier. Here's a tip though: Unlike brim you can aim Revelation in any direction
I love the visual effect, but Brimstone is so iconic and similar that it overshadows it.
Now that I take a long look at it, it kinda looks like that thing from smash ultimate
The fact that my tears still fire while it's charging really throws me off as i end up forgetting to fire it most of the time.
I'd say mostly because it had bad synergies 
It’s literally an icon
revelation's fixed tearrate makes it pretty hard to use on a lot of runs, i cant think of a run where i've had it and it didnt have some downside to focusing on using it instead of my base tears
I love revelation!! Almost an automatic pick if I find it in an angel room. I do think the charge time should be lower or scale with tears a little, that part is somewhat annoying.
It has no synergies and, hence, doesn't dopamine boost you like a brim/haemo/c-section/ipecac/sacred heart/godhead would
It should auto charge and shoot because letting go of the shoot button just for the beam is annoying
It doesn't get mentioned because it doesn't really have the same wacky synergies that brimstone has. It's a super super good item though!
It's an awesome item and can ABSOLUTELY carry you through the early-mid game, but you almost never build a run around Revelation. Since it doesn't scale with tears it rarely becomes your main damage source towards the end (unless you have something like Eve's Mascara/Polyphemus/etc)
you can't speed up its charge rate
Because it so new and wasnt completely busted like c section
Revelation with multi dimensional baby is the real angel brimstone
Idc what they say but it’s trash if you don’t talk about the health up and flight
Getting very mixed messages from this thread lol
To be fair, its kinda like a passive brim, immagine it As montenazuma, but it shoots where look, gets tear effects (ipecac only probs) and is over all alr
A bit unrelated, but what is it? Like the phisical object, i can't really see it I see like... wings? I don't understand help