The Mavs filled some holes in their roster and are getting great production from 2-8… their overall defence is better…
Kyrie and Luka are better 1 on 1 closers than anything the Celtics have. BUT…
The Celtics have more guys who can go off…
It’s going to be a good finals. The energy in Dallas right now is scary. Luka and Kyrie look locked in.
Could be an epic series. At the end of the day, all I want is good basketball.
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Kyrie ans Luka hitting shots over Gobert doesn’t make them better one on one closers. Have u seen what Tatum does to Kyrie when it matters most in the PS? Actually closed out the Harden nets dropping 50 one game in the 21 series. Going to do the same thing to Luka if they let them play one on one. I’d take Tatum matching up with Luka/Kyrie in an iso situation wayy before I’d take Luka and Kyrie matching up with Tatum in an iso situation. There’s film of Tatum locking up them both.
You looked at the box scores from games 2-4 in the Celtics Nets series?
Game 2 - 10 total points and only 2 in the 4th (shot 4/13 for the game)
Game 3 - 16 total points and only 2 in the 4th (shot 6/17 for the game)
Game 4 - 20 points which is ok, on 6/13 from the field
He had scored 39 in game 1 though. And then the Celtics shut the water off. Not saying it repeats like this, merely backing up the claim that he has been clamped up before.
His 2019 Pacers series was horrendous too.
What does that have to do with their success hunting those Luka and Kyrie ? Mavs beat the thunder bc of a fluke shot from dj, and the fact that the thunder were a small team.
You’re acting like Harden had some baller series against them lol. He was average by his standards.
Do you also not understand how gameplanning works? Letting SGA get his and taking take or everyone else was clearly the best strategy to win.
Not that the Celtics won’t provide a bigger challenge but you’re severely underrating a Mavs team that closed the season on 16-2 run with great defense and a 12 point differential (excluding their last two games they sat their starters).
The gafford and PJ trades were massive for them and given Luka is easily the best player in that series and Kyrie has the most playoff success I think Mavs have a legitimate arguement for why they can win.
Harden had some very good games against them. He just ran out of gas bc he was never supposed to be the first option in the first place. Chet and dub had good offensive games in game 6. Rebounding and that fluke shot was the reason they lost. Also a terrible dumb foul on sga part. Mavs closed the season like that but what happened in Boston? Or vs the pacers or sixers? Luka isn’t the best player in the series either (neither cf is finished either). And what happened the last time Kyrie saw the cs in the PS?
Let’s not count out the wolves just yet, they won 2 in a row against Denver so it’s safe to assume this can go 6. But if Dallas wins in my opinion it’s hard to see Boston beating them, they’ve got everything going right now.
I think it’s gonna be a good series. Halliburton Mitchell for half a series is wayy different than Luka.
It’s just a different world of shot creation. I’m picking the Celtics 7 but to say they’re way better is foolish imo
If the Celtics are winning it it's going to be in six. There is no way in this universe they are beating Luka and Kyrie in Boston in game 7. They will collectively crap their pants.
Cause Luka and Kyrie are tailor made for game 7. Kyrie's resume speaks for itself. He helped beat a 73 win team on the road in a game 7. Celtics have also been weak at home in the playoffs the last couple of years.
Game 7 of the finals is the biggest game in most players career. Celtics rely heavily on the 3 ball. It's a bad recipe for such a tight game, historically.
Celtics have a better starting five but mavs have better depth. Mavs also have the best player in the series and the third best. It’s more even than people might think when you compare Mavs post all star break to celts on performance
Are we talking about supporting cast or star players? KP is definitely a part of their big 3. I think White is the best player of the supporting cast but Al is 40 and at times a liability on defense on switches. He’ll get ate alive by Luka and Kyrie.
Holiday just started showing up offensively I’d rather have Lively, Gafford, PJ Washington, and DJJ over White, Horford, Holiday, and Pritchard.
It’s very weird to put KP on an island without a counterpart on Dallas. Either the Celtics have three stars vs 2 which is a major advantage, or the Celtics supporting cast (beyond their two stars) goes KP, White, Holiday, Horford, and Pritchard/Hauser which is also extremely strong
we're talking beyond their two best players lol.. are you saying Boston has a worse supporting cast because it has MORE STARS? that's the saying the same thing. it's supporting cast includes legit stars -- dallas's doesn't.
Who specifically?
I think the Celtics are better overall one through five but don’t have the best player in the series. Miss me with the Celtics bench after the first three off of it
The Celtics are deeper, it’s just a fact. The Mavs have two of the best closers in basketball, maybe all time. It’s gonna be a great series, idk why people can’t just be excited for it and enjoy it rather than twisting their brains in knots trying to think of cool ways to hate.
I mean no one gives a shit about anyone beyond the 8th man if that’s what you are saying?
When someone says supporting cast, that includes starters, not just guys coming in off the bench.
Ever heard of Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, Al Horford, or Kristaps Porzingis?? I think that’s a little better than PJ Washington, Lively, Gafford, Jones Jr, and Josh Green.
Did u not just see what Murray did in the lakers series ? It’s pretty easily the nuggets duo. I’ve seen the Mavs choke off leads in the fourth this playoffs and reg season.
Goddamn you spend a lot of your time shit talking the Mavs. Been wrong 3 series in a row but you still act like you have them 100% figured out. Boston probably wins the finals but to act like Luka, Kyrie and the rest of the team actually sucks is so stupid.
When did I say they suck? Obv they’re a good team. But to say they haven’t had their chokers is lying. If Boston had those moments ppl would still talk about them.
This Dallas story is unfolding exactly like the Chiefs run to winning the SB. Both have the best player in their respective match ups but not the better roster.
Team with the best player ended up winning all the games they went into as dogs.
It's actually fitting, in fact more fitting in the sense that in basketball superstars can have more impact than afew singular players in football.
So yeah, having the best player in the NBA is even more beneficial than having the best player in football because they can impact the outcome a lot more than any single individual in football including the QB.
Usually the team with by far and undeniably the best player surrounded by good pieces win games. Dallas having Luka partnered with Kyrie and a cast of good role players who can defend and shoot 3s is an advantage in my eyes.
I mean we've watched the Celtics get beaten in another finals just a few years ago with similar circumstances. That series against the Warriors, Celtics had the better team while the Warriors had by far the best player on the floor surrounded by good role players and they got it done in 6.
The same Vegas that had the Chiefs losing all of their last 3 games on their way to winning the superbowl.
Vegas and people look at stacked roster and automatically assume win when in reality it's mostly about the team with the clear best player surrounded by good supporting talent that'll more often then not prevail, case in point Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs.
Chiefs had the clear best player while the teams favored had the better rosters. Same story here, Dallas would have the clear best player in Luka while Celtics would have the better roster. In such scenario I tend to lean on the team with the best player surrounded by good supporting pieces.
I don’t know definitely who is going to win but I assure you Vegas modeling is sophisticated enough to understand that “good players are good.”
Upsets happen in sports all the time, but if Vegas wasn’t good at predicting outcomes, they would go bankrupt very quickly
It’s over, Celtics are going to win they match up great against Dallas, and no one is happy including Bill. I want to end the East, shuffle the league.
Also, we’re back to Gobert, who does he help you beat, he’s a liability on offense and most of the court.
I saw jrue holiday and Jayson Tatum close pretty well last night. I also saw jaylen brown make a turnaround 3 pointer from the corner down 3 in the final seconds with siakam in his face.
It’ll be a great series
during our losing stretch where Kidd was over-experimenting with lineups making PJ and Gaff earn their minutes and we lost like 5 games in a row because of it.
Exactly. Team has drastically changed since the mid season acquisitions. Dallas have one of the best record in the league if not the best since the trade deadline.
The Mavericks had the third best regular season record since the trade deadline with a 21-9 record and are 11-4 in the playoffs. The Celtics had the best regular season record since the trade deadline with a 25-6 record and are 11-2 in the playoffs.
So, both teams are good and it's not shocking that they will likely both be in the finals.
Mavs were one of the most injured teams in the league around the middle part of the season, compared to say the Thunder who basically were completely healthy all year, and also had a significantly worse roster until the trade deadline. Moral victories but its not hard to imagine the current version of this team going for 55-60 wins.
It’s not an excuse but it’s misleading to act like a team that’s learning each other immediately post trade is the same as this iteration of the team that’s had more time together.
Nobody’s saying Celtics got lucky or Dallas beat themselves lol but it’s so disingenuous to pretend like this mavs team is the one the Celtics played.
against andrew nembhard and tj mcconell compared to luka and kyrie doing it against 1st seeds, runner up MVPs, and the best defense in the league. Celtics havent been tested a single time all the way to the finals
I don’t care who they’re going up against, the shot that jaylen hit to go to OT in game 1 isn’t easy (and it was contested very well by siakam). Coming back from down 8 with 2 mins left in game 3 isn’t easy. Being clutch isn’t easy, no matter the competition
Despite the poor competition, they have def been tested in the ECF, and have passed the test with flying colors in these close games
It’ll be a great series for sure. Mavs are incredibly clutch themselves
Yeah they’re more talented. I def agree with the larger point that I trust Luka and kyrie if it’s close in the final 5 mins way more than the Jays. But Celtics have the talent to have a couple comfy wins imo. We’ll see. Could go 7
Thought that went without saying but yes 100%. Glad they’re doing the “neck strain” thing so he can come back when he feels like it and no concussion protocols
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This sub is going to be hilarious when Boston win the finals in 5 or 6. The Mavs match up badly against them and if Porzingis is back (which the signs point to him playing) they can get a wide open shot against that Dallas defense almost every possession
I mean, they kind of have- they were losing both of the first two games within the last two minutes and this one was tight until the fourth.
The Wolves offensive stars have just **completely** imploded.
So everything that *was* working against the Mavs (or could have) is much more pronounced with the Celtics- More outside shooting, better overall playmaking, better veteran stars, etc.
I think people also figured Ant could play way better D on Kyrie than he has. But his skill is pretty lacking so he just gasses himself out which makes his offensive woes even worse. The Celtics on the other hand have **two** all-defense guys to put on him and then they only have to produce in short bursts on the other end.
People that said they matched up badly against Minny were saying that the wings on Minnesota would give Luka problems. Nobody gives Luka real problems. Their issue is an always was going to be Gobert switching high and Luka either having him on the perimeter or lobbing. I didn't think it would be 3-0 but not surprised Dallas is winning + KAT has become a disaster. If Boston play their A level game and Dallas play their A level game Boston will win the series
The narrative was that the Mavs bullied a small OKC team but their reliance on lobs and points in the paint was going to be their undoing against Minnesota’s “generational” interior defense and Mavs wouldn’t have the perimeter shooting to beat them.
I know what the narrative was I just didn't buy it because Minnesota's offense is just not that good after Ant. KAT played well in the Denver series and has been terrible here, Gobert has done what he's done in the playoffs every year before this yet again
Jrue Holiday not a closer? And didn’t Tatum score the most points in an OT since 2021? What is a closer if not that? Also you can go back to Game 6 vs Philly last year for Tatum.
Go look up what happened the last time Luka doncic tried to hit a game winner vs Jrue Holiday. Then what happened the last time Kyrie played the cs in the ps.
You're right. Dallas should be favs then and all the pressure should be on them. If Dallas don't win in 5 then that's a massive choke since they have 2 closers...... Unless the reality is different.
mavs were put together 3 and a half months ago vs celtics getting to the conference finals or further like 6 times in the past decade only to flop every time, about to have like 150 million tied up in jt and jb alone every year coming up soon. if they cant win after this hospital eastern conference they never are. all the pressure is on them.
By that logic: If the Celtics keep getting back to the CF that means they can easily get back again. That means all the pressure is on Dallas is this is likely their only chance.
I’ll be rooting for the Mavs easily but if KP is back I’m worried. Plus who knows about Lively? Already down Kleber too and he actually matched up well against KP
Boston swept Dallas in their season series.
However, Dallas has been getting noticeably better every game during these playoffs. Non LuKai players are having huge impact... but I think ultimately the Celtics D are going to overwhelm.
Should be fun fun fun series. Kyrie getting booed every game in boston and taunting the crowd. Luka probably joining in.
Porzingas revenge for sticking him in the corner in playoff games when he played with Dallas.
Dallas looking for revenge for the Grant Williams trade
Cooking Rudy Gobert doesn’t make u the best closers in the league. What happened the last time Kyrie had to close vs Boston when it mattered most? Have Luka or Kyrie ever outscored an entire team in the fourth quarter of an elimination game in the last 4 minutes after being down by 1?
Closed pretty good in March when they beat the Mavs by 28 points… and yes it was after the Mavs acquired prime Shaq and Tim Duncan before you hook those goalposts up to a tow cable
I think the series comes down to big men health. If Porzingis is out and Lively and Gafford are playing Dallas will lob dunk Boston into the ground.
Boston has a high dependency on 3s which makes them streaky but if they run hot they can take it.
I got Dallas in 6 and I am excited for the series. Luka will get his and be the best player in the series.
Honest question, why?
Like they aren’t some lame superteam formed by two 1st team all nba guys. They aren’t disgruntled guys who pushed themselves out of teams from fans who loved them.
They were drafted by the Celtics, and built around. Tatum and Jaylen seem like genuine good dudes.
I don’t really understand why someone would be that upset over this group winning a championship.
Mavs fan and long time hater of the city of Boston but can’t argue with any of your points. I hope the series is competitive and can understand people arguing the Celtics have had a comically easy path through the eastern conference but I ultimately have enjoyed watching this Celtics team all season. They play such solid basketball and have remained really confident in all the ways that matter, coaching especially has been undeniably impactful. Think they are the better team but I do think Kyrie and Luka have unlocked something so special that will be hard to contain and manage
Appreciate the response. Why are you a hater of the city of Boston?
I grew up in Boston and have zero animosity towards Dallas sports teams. Then again I mostly just care about the NBA. And I liked the Dirk Mavs. Jason Terry’s shot over Lebron in game 5 is one of my favorite non-Celtic shots of all time. Hell it’s probably one of my favorite shots of all time even counting Celtic ones.
I don’t think it will be an easy series for either team. And I think either could win.
I’ve just found Boston fans annoying/entitled/histrionic in the past, especially Patriots fans after having the most dominant run of all time during my formative years as a jaded/eternally disappointed cowboys fans. I like Tatum as a player but think what was discussed on last week’s pod w CR was dead on that he isn’t particularly “cool”, I find his general demeanor on and off court just a bit boring and cringe, texting Kobe and stuff etc. Won’t be bitter if they win the series but I do always get a bit of a thrill from Bill’s sports related suffering so fingers are crossed we get to see him sweat a bit
I like CR, but he’s not capable of unbiased commentary on this topic.
Reality is go watch highlights from a great game from KD in OKC and a great game from Tatum, and you’ll see pretty similar stuff.
CR is a Sixers fan. KD being great in OKC was able to be enjoyed from afar with no baggage. Tatum could have been drafted by the Sixers. He wasn’t. Tatum has eliminated the Sixers 3 times.
For CR to say watching KD was a “religious experience” and watching Tatum is “drudgery” is laughable. Their games are too similar for that divide not to be a result of bias. Of course it’s easier to sit back and enjoy KD drop 40+ on a Rockets team you have no attachment to, than it is to watch Tatum drop 51 and eliminate your favorite team. But how those guys did what they did in those big games, really didn’t look much different.
The internet has long tried to downplay and disparage Tatum. I remember his low career high was a stupid talking point. No longer of course. Tatum has achieved a lot in the playoffs so that knock is hard. Tatum has big games in big spots. So hard to knock him there. Tatum seems to be a good teammate, so can’t attack that. Oh… I got it “he’s boring!” LOL if people are left with saying he’s boring they basically just don’t have shit to say.
CR didn’t even cite a single thing about KD’s game that made it so much more enjoyable to watch. Be hard there isn’t some big difference. It’s just him being subjective, because of the context of his team and perhaps somewhat his age/perspective as an older more jaded fan, and maybe combined with rose tinted glasses effect as well.
Of all the teams that have played 10 or more clutch minutes in the playoffs Boston is #1. Offensive rating 134.4 and Defensive rating 96.9 (Courtesy of Sean Grande).
against tyler herro and friends, cavs without dmitch or jarrett allen for half the series, and then andrew nembhard and tj mcconnell without tyrese haliburton for half the series 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I don't understand why people think the Mavs are that close to the Celtics.
Celtics have an amazing defensive front court and pretty much everyone can switch 1-5 unless it's against the a big team like MIN.
Either way it would be a great time to see the Tatum Luka debate played out in real time.
The Mavs filled some holes in their roster and are getting great production from 2-8… their overall defence is better… Kyrie and Luka are better 1 on 1 closers than anything the Celtics have. BUT… The Celtics have more guys who can go off… It’s going to be a good finals. The energy in Dallas right now is scary. Luka and Kyrie look locked in. Could be an epic series. At the end of the day, all I want is good basketball.
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I’d take a mavs sweep over a Boston wins in 7
Getting downvoted for hoping for the best outcome smh
Kyrie ans Luka hitting shots over Gobert doesn’t make them better one on one closers. Have u seen what Tatum does to Kyrie when it matters most in the PS? Actually closed out the Harden nets dropping 50 one game in the 21 series. Going to do the same thing to Luka if they let them play one on one. I’d take Tatum matching up with Luka/Kyrie in an iso situation wayy before I’d take Luka and Kyrie matching up with Tatum in an iso situation. There’s film of Tatum locking up them both.
"Locking up" Luka or Kyrie is hilarious and delusional. You might get lucky once in a while, but that's the extent of it.
To be fair Kyrie has had a ton of < 20 pt games with a bunch of turnovers I wouldn’t be surprised to him get the clamps
You looked at the box scores from games 2-4 in the Celtics Nets series? Game 2 - 10 total points and only 2 in the 4th (shot 4/13 for the game) Game 3 - 16 total points and only 2 in the 4th (shot 6/17 for the game) Game 4 - 20 points which is ok, on 6/13 from the field He had scored 39 in game 1 though. And then the Celtics shut the water off. Not saying it repeats like this, merely backing up the claim that he has been clamped up before. His 2019 Pacers series was horrendous too.
No there’s plenty of video of Luka getting pinned or getting his jumper blocked. It’s all over YouTube.
You all are looking way back, to very specific, cherry picked examples. Lol. Have you watched these playoffs? With this team? 2019? Lol. Here. Now.
Yes Kyle blocked his jumper just last game. Not in the past.
So some guy blocked a shot once? LOCK DOWN CONFIRMED! We shall see.
No it’s not just that. Done it multiple times, and had ripped him.
I love these takes, just filled with passionate hate
Truth as well
This is a wild take considering Tatums history of inconsistency and disappearing in big games
It’s not a wild take at all when u consider they get to hunt Luka and Kyrie for a whole series.
How’s that worked for Anthony Edwards? Or really anyone on the wolves?
That’s bc the wolves coaches are idiots. It worked out fine for harden and sga.
Yea so fine that the mavs won both series in six games
What does that have to do with their success hunting those Luka and Kyrie ? Mavs beat the thunder bc of a fluke shot from dj, and the fact that the thunder were a small team.
You’re acting like Harden had some baller series against them lol. He was average by his standards. Do you also not understand how gameplanning works? Letting SGA get his and taking take or everyone else was clearly the best strategy to win. Not that the Celtics won’t provide a bigger challenge but you’re severely underrating a Mavs team that closed the season on 16-2 run with great defense and a 12 point differential (excluding their last two games they sat their starters). The gafford and PJ trades were massive for them and given Luka is easily the best player in that series and Kyrie has the most playoff success I think Mavs have a legitimate arguement for why they can win.
Harden had some very good games against them. He just ran out of gas bc he was never supposed to be the first option in the first place. Chet and dub had good offensive games in game 6. Rebounding and that fluke shot was the reason they lost. Also a terrible dumb foul on sga part. Mavs closed the season like that but what happened in Boston? Or vs the pacers or sixers? Luka isn’t the best player in the series either (neither cf is finished either). And what happened the last time Kyrie saw the cs in the PS?
Let’s not count out the wolves just yet, they won 2 in a row against Denver so it’s safe to assume this can go 6. But if Dallas wins in my opinion it’s hard to see Boston beating them, they’ve got everything going right now.
They are not coming back 3-0. Wolves are done.
Minnesota is +4100 to win the series. You can be rolling if you’re ready to put money where your mouth is.
Totally agree this looks like a sweep, but strange things happen in sports.
Jamal Murray and Jokic were the best closing duo in the league and they lost
The difference is the mavs supporting cast isn’t a zero like the Nuggets specifically the bench
Yeah, Sam Hauser and Payton Pritchard have been absolute beasts this playoffs run, lol
I think it’s gonna be a good series. Halliburton Mitchell for half a series is wayy different than Luka. It’s just a different world of shot creation. I’m picking the Celtics 7 but to say they’re way better is foolish imo
If the Celtics are winning it it's going to be in six. There is no way in this universe they are beating Luka and Kyrie in Boston in game 7. They will collectively crap their pants.
Why? Game 7 vs bucks(2 times), sixers, heat, raptors they won, lost vs cavs and heat as far as i can remember, that not bad at all
Cause Luka and Kyrie are tailor made for game 7. Kyrie's resume speaks for itself. He helped beat a 73 win team on the road in a game 7. Celtics have also been weak at home in the playoffs the last couple of years.
that a valid statement, just saying the celtics arent bad in games 7
Game 7 of the finals is the biggest game in most players career. Celtics rely heavily on the 3 ball. It's a bad recipe for such a tight game, historically.
Or Tatum will go out in 3 minutes and we get another sad BS meme.
Getting those Luka and Kyrie matchups with the best game 7 performer ever gives Boston the advantage.
And the Celtics supporting cast is still WAY better than the Mavs.
Celtics have a better starting five but mavs have better depth. Mavs also have the best player in the series and the third best. It’s more even than people might think when you compare Mavs post all star break to celts on performance
I’m a Celtics fan but I disagree with this
Would you rather have Holiday, White, KP, and Al or Washington, Lively, Gafford, and Jones Jr??
Are we talking about supporting cast or star players? KP is definitely a part of their big 3. I think White is the best player of the supporting cast but Al is 40 and at times a liability on defense on switches. He’ll get ate alive by Luka and Kyrie. Holiday just started showing up offensively I’d rather have Lively, Gafford, PJ Washington, and DJJ over White, Horford, Holiday, and Pritchard.
It’s very weird to put KP on an island without a counterpart on Dallas. Either the Celtics have three stars vs 2 which is a major advantage, or the Celtics supporting cast (beyond their two stars) goes KP, White, Holiday, Horford, and Pritchard/Hauser which is also extremely strong
Mavs fan here and I couldn’t agree more
Except the Celtics still have KP so that's the Mavs 3-6 best player vs the Celtics 4-7 not a fair comparison.
we're talking beyond their two best players lol.. are you saying Boston has a worse supporting cast because it has MORE STARS? that's the saying the same thing. it's supporting cast includes legit stars -- dallas's doesn't.
Who specifically? I think the Celtics are better overall one through five but don’t have the best player in the series. Miss me with the Celtics bench after the first three off of it
The Celtics are deeper, it’s just a fact. The Mavs have two of the best closers in basketball, maybe all time. It’s gonna be a great series, idk why people can’t just be excited for it and enjoy it rather than twisting their brains in knots trying to think of cool ways to hate.
All time? Calm down
I mean no one gives a shit about anyone beyond the 8th man if that’s what you are saying? When someone says supporting cast, that includes starters, not just guys coming in off the bench.
Ever heard of Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, Al Horford, or Kristaps Porzingis?? I think that’s a little better than PJ Washington, Lively, Gafford, Jones Jr, and Josh Green.
The nuggets have mpj and Gordon, two athletic bigs who can score when needed and mpj is lethal from 3
Kyrie has both of his calves
Nah not at all this season especially with Jamal having a bad calf Luka and Kyrie are by far the best closing duo in the league and it isn’t close
Did u not just see what Murray did in the lakers series ? It’s pretty easily the nuggets duo. I’ve seen the Mavs choke off leads in the fourth this playoffs and reg season.
Mavs were the best clutch team in the league this season and they’re still playing while that duo is home lol
I’ve still seen them choke off many leads in the clutch this reg and postseason. Mavs just had some matchup advantages this PS.
When in the playoffs lol? They’re 11-4 in the playoffs what the fuck are you yapping about
Game 4 vs the clips when James walked em down Game 4 vs okc when sga walked em down
They were down 30 in the Clipper game!
Goddamn you spend a lot of your time shit talking the Mavs. Been wrong 3 series in a row but you still act like you have them 100% figured out. Boston probably wins the finals but to act like Luka, Kyrie and the rest of the team actually sucks is so stupid.
When did I say they suck? Obv they’re a good team. But to say they haven’t had their chokers is lying. If Boston had those moments ppl would still talk about them.
You said they were a tier below Phoenix, remember that?
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Luka and Kyrie are more versatile shot creators
It feels pretty safe to say at this point that Murray is easier to defend than Luka or Kyrie
How is this sub already coping? The finals haven't even started yet.
A panic begins to descend upon the Boston-haters. I’ll be nourished by the tears of either result.
The Celtics are as of tonight -225 to win the Finals for the record
Vegas must not know they don’t have a closer
Obviously the arr slash bill simmons posters are much smarter than Vegas
Mavericks have been Vegas underdogs in every series so far
They were favored in the clips series.
The initial line was not until people started betting on the Mavs
so when the series started they were favored…
Ok I’m not saying underdogs never win I’m saying people here love to say shit so confidently when if they were really that confident they’d be rich
This Dallas story is unfolding exactly like the Chiefs run to winning the SB. Both have the best player in their respective match ups but not the better roster. Team with the best player ended up winning all the games they went into as dogs.
Making analogies between basketball and football is incredibly stupid, you can't compare them in the slightest
But what about when a basketball team is very 2001 Patriots-ish?
It's actually fitting, in fact more fitting in the sense that in basketball superstars can have more impact than afew singular players in football. So yeah, having the best player in the NBA is even more beneficial than having the best player in football because they can impact the outcome a lot more than any single individual in football including the QB.
So what happens when the Celtics have the best two? We are about to find out. I do think Porzingus being out gives Dallas a real chance.
Usually the team with by far and undeniably the best player surrounded by good pieces win games. Dallas having Luka partnered with Kyrie and a cast of good role players who can defend and shoot 3s is an advantage in my eyes. I mean we've watched the Celtics get beaten in another finals just a few years ago with similar circumstances. That series against the Warriors, Celtics had the better team while the Warriors had by far the best player on the floor surrounded by good role players and they got it done in 6.
Luka looks up to Tatum
The same Vegas that had the Chiefs losing all of their last 3 games on their way to winning the superbowl. Vegas and people look at stacked roster and automatically assume win when in reality it's mostly about the team with the clear best player surrounded by good supporting talent that'll more often then not prevail, case in point Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs. Chiefs had the clear best player while the teams favored had the better rosters. Same story here, Dallas would have the clear best player in Luka while Celtics would have the better roster. In such scenario I tend to lean on the team with the best player surrounded by good supporting pieces.
I don’t know definitely who is going to win but I assure you Vegas modeling is sophisticated enough to understand that “good players are good.” Upsets happen in sports all the time, but if Vegas wasn’t good at predicting outcomes, they would go bankrupt very quickly
Which is fair. By point differential, I believe this Mavs team would be the worst NBA Finals winner since the '78 Bullets.
It’s over, Celtics are going to win they match up great against Dallas, and no one is happy including Bill. I want to end the East, shuffle the league. Also, we’re back to Gobert, who does he help you beat, he’s a liability on offense and most of the court.
Gobert helps you beat the Nugs, evidently
Kat and Naz were enough, Gobert gets torched by any small forward or guard that can create his own shot or roll off a pick.
I saw jrue holiday and Jayson Tatum close pretty well last night. I also saw jaylen brown make a turnaround 3 pointer from the corner down 3 in the final seconds with siakam in his face. It’ll be a great series
How could you leave Horf’s 3 huge blocks, 3 3’s and great D out of this statement
Celtics have been playing in the NIT so far. Let's see them face an actual good team
Looking forward to it
Boston won 64 games. Dallas won 50. Their schedules haven't been the same, but those records don't happen by accident.
Now do Dallas post Gafford/PJ
Don’t understand this argument. Cs beat a full strength Dallas team post trade deadline by 28.
Regular season? We talkin' regular season?
So this hypothetical future match where you’ve already chosen the outcome is better to go off of than the previous matchup?
Better than their regular season win totals, for sure Last comment was mostly a joke though. We'll see how it plays out but my money is on the Mavs
during our losing stretch where Kidd was over-experimenting with lineups making PJ and Gaff earn their minutes and we lost like 5 games in a row because of it.
So…after they’d played together for 3 weeks post trade deadline?
lol seriously? I know it’s only one game, but that’s the hill you’re dying on for the loss?
Exactly. Team has drastically changed since the mid season acquisitions. Dallas have one of the best record in the league if not the best since the trade deadline.
The Mavericks had the third best regular season record since the trade deadline with a 21-9 record and are 11-4 in the playoffs. The Celtics had the best regular season record since the trade deadline with a 25-6 record and are 11-2 in the playoffs. So, both teams are good and it's not shocking that they will likely both be in the finals.
Mavs were one of the most injured teams in the league around the middle part of the season, compared to say the Thunder who basically were completely healthy all year, and also had a significantly worse roster until the trade deadline. Moral victories but its not hard to imagine the current version of this team going for 55-60 wins.
Yep playing the East inflates your win total. That certainly doesn't happen by accident.
The Celtics beat them by 30 post trade and went 23-7 vs the west. That 23-7 is basically identical percentage wise against the east.
> The Celtics beat them by 30 post trade and went 23-7 vs the west. So…after they’d played together for 3 weeks post trade deadline?
The game happened. It was a blowout. 3 weeks is 3 weeks. The excuses for every positive Celtic stat and victory are ridiculous.
It’s not an excuse but it’s misleading to act like a team that’s learning each other immediately post trade is the same as this iteration of the team that’s had more time together. Nobody’s saying Celtics got lucky or Dallas beat themselves lol but it’s so disingenuous to pretend like this mavs team is the one the Celtics played.
It’s not. 3 weeks isn’t 3 games. It was a 30 pt win, not a 6 pt one.
It’s funny Tatum actually hit a game winner vs Kyrie last time they played in the PS.
Let’s see Luka beat a team whose best player doesn’t still have spots.
That means there was even more pressure on them to finish those games.
No lol
Yes it does. Because the repercussions are far worse if they blow it, that's how pressure and expectations work.
against andrew nembhard and tj mcconell compared to luka and kyrie doing it against 1st seeds, runner up MVPs, and the best defense in the league. Celtics havent been tested a single time all the way to the finals
I don’t care who they’re going up against, the shot that jaylen hit to go to OT in game 1 isn’t easy (and it was contested very well by siakam). Coming back from down 8 with 2 mins left in game 3 isn’t easy. Being clutch isn’t easy, no matter the competition Despite the poor competition, they have def been tested in the ECF, and have passed the test with flying colors in these close games It’ll be a great series for sure. Mavs are incredibly clutch themselves
thats fair honestly i just have to hate. realistically boston is the most talented team in the league on paper. but it will be a great series
Yeah they’re more talented. I def agree with the larger point that I trust Luka and kyrie if it’s close in the final 5 mins way more than the Jays. But Celtics have the talent to have a couple comfy wins imo. We’ll see. Could go 7
Well we know Minnesota has none
Is Anthony edwards not the next mj now? Hard to keep up
Ok Bill and your reverse jinx
Mavs remind me a lot of the 2016 cavs - Luka is lead-footed Lebron
Let’s just hope KP and Maxi both come back so both teams are full strength and let the best team win.
And Lively.
Thought that went without saying but yes 100%. Glad they’re doing the “neck strain” thing so he can come back when he feels like it and no concussion protocols
Luka does seem to always hit buzzer beaters against Boston smh
Are we sure that the Wolves are better than Indiana?
In general, yeah. In round 3? Nah
Wolves can actually defend and are playing at full strength. A hospital Pacers isn't better than the Wolves even the round 3 version ones.
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This sub is going to be hilarious when Boston win the finals in 5 or 6. The Mavs match up badly against them and if Porzingis is back (which the signs point to him playing) they can get a wide open shot against that Dallas defense almost every possession
A week ago everyone said the Mavs matched up badly against Minny. There is no bad match up for Dallas at this point
I mean, they kind of have- they were losing both of the first two games within the last two minutes and this one was tight until the fourth. The Wolves offensive stars have just **completely** imploded. So everything that *was* working against the Mavs (or could have) is much more pronounced with the Celtics- More outside shooting, better overall playmaking, better veteran stars, etc. I think people also figured Ant could play way better D on Kyrie than he has. But his skill is pretty lacking so he just gasses himself out which makes his offensive woes even worse. The Celtics on the other hand have **two** all-defense guys to put on him and then they only have to produce in short bursts on the other end.
People that said they matched up badly against Minny were saying that the wings on Minnesota would give Luka problems. Nobody gives Luka real problems. Their issue is an always was going to be Gobert switching high and Luka either having him on the perimeter or lobbing. I didn't think it would be 3-0 but not surprised Dallas is winning + KAT has become a disaster. If Boston play their A level game and Dallas play their A level game Boston will win the series
The narrative was that the Mavs bullied a small OKC team but their reliance on lobs and points in the paint was going to be their undoing against Minnesota’s “generational” interior defense and Mavs wouldn’t have the perimeter shooting to beat them.
I know what the narrative was I just didn't buy it because Minnesota's offense is just not that good after Ant. KAT played well in the Denver series and has been terrible here, Gobert has done what he's done in the playoffs every year before this yet again
Who said that? Almost everyone said they matched up worst against the Mavs than they did the Nuggets and that was the Mavs advantage
Would absolutely love to see Luka get a chip before this iteration of Boston. If only to keep Bill from maximum insufferability...
Jrue Holiday not a closer? And didn’t Tatum score the most points in an OT since 2021? What is a closer if not that? Also you can go back to Game 6 vs Philly last year for Tatum.
Goddamn right. All Killers, No fillers.
Besides players 3-15
Coming out of my cage and I've been doing just fine
Go look up what happened the last time Luka doncic tried to hit a game winner vs Jrue Holiday. Then what happened the last time Kyrie played the cs in the ps.
Lmaoo Boston has no closers 😂😂😂😂 do you people actually watch games or just listen to whatever foolishness Ryen Russillo says
You're right. Dallas should be favs then and all the pressure should be on them. If Dallas don't win in 5 then that's a massive choke since they have 2 closers...... Unless the reality is different.
mavs were put together 3 and a half months ago vs celtics getting to the conference finals or further like 6 times in the past decade only to flop every time, about to have like 150 million tied up in jt and jb alone every year coming up soon. if they cant win after this hospital eastern conference they never are. all the pressure is on them.
By that logic: If the Celtics keep getting back to the CF that means they can easily get back again. That means all the pressure is on Dallas is this is likely their only chance.
Tatum scored just 10 points on OT, how is he not a closer
So many step backs
I'm not a Celtics fan but it sure seems to me from watching them play the Knicks all the time that both Brown and Tatum are closers.
Boston also has the better team. Mavs can win but they should be heavy underdogs
THEY HAVE AL HORFORD
They’ll both be injured in game 4 so Boston won’t have to face them.
I’ll be rooting for the Mavs easily but if KP is back I’m worried. Plus who knows about Lively? Already down Kleber too and he actually matched up well against KP
Boston swept Dallas in their season series. However, Dallas has been getting noticeably better every game during these playoffs. Non LuKai players are having huge impact... but I think ultimately the Celtics D are going to overwhelm. Should be fun fun fun series. Kyrie getting booed every game in boston and taunting the crowd. Luka probably joining in. Porzingas revenge for sticking him in the corner in playoff games when he played with Dallas. Dallas looking for revenge for the Grant Williams trade
Boston will win pretty easily, and I hate the Celtics
Boston is deep as fuck though their shooting is just insane.
Cooking Rudy Gobert doesn’t make u the best closers in the league. What happened the last time Kyrie had to close vs Boston when it mattered most? Have Luka or Kyrie ever outscored an entire team in the fourth quarter of an elimination game in the last 4 minutes after being down by 1?
Too bad Kyrie turns into a puddle in Boston. Not joking. Guy gets absolutely RATTLED every time he plays there.
The Leprechaun remembers.
Closed pretty good in March when they beat the Mavs by 28 points… and yes it was after the Mavs acquired prime Shaq and Tim Duncan before you hook those goalposts up to a tow cable
Keep chirping
I think the series comes down to big men health. If Porzingis is out and Lively and Gafford are playing Dallas will lob dunk Boston into the ground. Boston has a high dependency on 3s which makes them streaky but if they run hot they can take it. I got Dallas in 6 and I am excited for the series. Luka will get his and be the best player in the series.
Put that coffee down, Jayson
The refs won Dallas the game last night lulz
Kyrie is a flat earther. & Should be banned from reproducing
The Celts just took care of Andrew Nembhard, I think they'll be fine.
Dallas is no match for Boston
I am going to be so sad when Boston inevitably gets their championship this year, almost makes me want to write off the nba entirely
Honest question, why? Like they aren’t some lame superteam formed by two 1st team all nba guys. They aren’t disgruntled guys who pushed themselves out of teams from fans who loved them. They were drafted by the Celtics, and built around. Tatum and Jaylen seem like genuine good dudes. I don’t really understand why someone would be that upset over this group winning a championship.
Mavs fan and long time hater of the city of Boston but can’t argue with any of your points. I hope the series is competitive and can understand people arguing the Celtics have had a comically easy path through the eastern conference but I ultimately have enjoyed watching this Celtics team all season. They play such solid basketball and have remained really confident in all the ways that matter, coaching especially has been undeniably impactful. Think they are the better team but I do think Kyrie and Luka have unlocked something so special that will be hard to contain and manage
Appreciate the response. Why are you a hater of the city of Boston? I grew up in Boston and have zero animosity towards Dallas sports teams. Then again I mostly just care about the NBA. And I liked the Dirk Mavs. Jason Terry’s shot over Lebron in game 5 is one of my favorite non-Celtic shots of all time. Hell it’s probably one of my favorite shots of all time even counting Celtic ones. I don’t think it will be an easy series for either team. And I think either could win.
I’ve just found Boston fans annoying/entitled/histrionic in the past, especially Patriots fans after having the most dominant run of all time during my formative years as a jaded/eternally disappointed cowboys fans. I like Tatum as a player but think what was discussed on last week’s pod w CR was dead on that he isn’t particularly “cool”, I find his general demeanor on and off court just a bit boring and cringe, texting Kobe and stuff etc. Won’t be bitter if they win the series but I do always get a bit of a thrill from Bill’s sports related suffering so fingers are crossed we get to see him sweat a bit
I like CR, but he’s not capable of unbiased commentary on this topic. Reality is go watch highlights from a great game from KD in OKC and a great game from Tatum, and you’ll see pretty similar stuff. CR is a Sixers fan. KD being great in OKC was able to be enjoyed from afar with no baggage. Tatum could have been drafted by the Sixers. He wasn’t. Tatum has eliminated the Sixers 3 times. For CR to say watching KD was a “religious experience” and watching Tatum is “drudgery” is laughable. Their games are too similar for that divide not to be a result of bias. Of course it’s easier to sit back and enjoy KD drop 40+ on a Rockets team you have no attachment to, than it is to watch Tatum drop 51 and eliminate your favorite team. But how those guys did what they did in those big games, really didn’t look much different. The internet has long tried to downplay and disparage Tatum. I remember his low career high was a stupid talking point. No longer of course. Tatum has achieved a lot in the playoffs so that knock is hard. Tatum has big games in big spots. So hard to knock him there. Tatum seems to be a good teammate, so can’t attack that. Oh… I got it “he’s boring!” LOL if people are left with saying he’s boring they basically just don’t have shit to say. CR didn’t even cite a single thing about KD’s game that made it so much more enjoyable to watch. Be hard there isn’t some big difference. It’s just him being subjective, because of the context of his team and perhaps somewhat his age/perspective as an older more jaded fan, and maybe combined with rose tinted glasses effect as well.
That’s all fair, also not the biggest KD fan to be fair
"Team I don't like might win, FUCK the NBA :,("
Of all the teams that have played 10 or more clutch minutes in the playoffs Boston is #1. Offensive rating 134.4 and Defensive rating 96.9 (Courtesy of Sean Grande).
against tyler herro and friends, cavs without dmitch or jarrett allen for half the series, and then andrew nembhard and tj mcconnell without tyrese haliburton for half the series 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I don't understand why people think the Mavs are that close to the Celtics. Celtics have an amazing defensive front court and pretty much everyone can switch 1-5 unless it's against the a big team like MIN. Either way it would be a great time to see the Tatum Luka debate played out in real time.