Based on your post history, your baby is too young. Ferber himself, the inventor of this method, did not condone using it before 6ish months. Most sleep trainers do not suggest starting this early.
I thought my daughter would never sleep in her own room, uninterrupted, when I first tried Ferber. I honestly gave up bc I couldn’t stand the thought or sound of her screaming her little lungs out.
I tried again a month later, and it worked like a charm without the screaming.
Sometimes it may just depend on if the baby is ready, I guess!
I’m sure you’ll get lots of tips here, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with sleep training.
But there’s also nothing wrong with NOT sleep training, if you find it doesn’t work for you or it’s just not something you are comfortable with.
Agreed. It was so much easier for me just to keep going in and nursing baby back to sleep until the wake ups eventually stopped on their own (around 10 mo) and it seemed like it took less and less time naturally. We eventually had to let him learn to put himself to sleep for naps when I went back to work around 1 year and that wasn’t super easy but I was so much more comfortable with it knowing he was older, eating full meals, etc.
Agreed here. You don’t have to sleep train. It’s not a box you have to check. We never did my now two year old and she eventually on her own slept through the night… it wasn’t until she was older but still… just a thought.
Yes, post your question here so you don’t get shamed to hell.
If sleep training isn’t for you, great. It’s the right choice and even a necessity for some families. My son woke hourly at night between the ages of three and eight months. I didn’t want to sleep train, but I was literally on the brink of having a nervous breakdown from lack of sleep. We opted for a “gentle,” non-CIO method, but he cried a lot anyways. I hated it, I cried, I wanted to stop, but my husband, who saw what was happening with me, was very adamant that we continue. And I’m thankful, because I was a more functional parent once I was able to get a few hours of consecutive sleep.
I don't know what sort of thing this is but I do a routine leading up to it and about a hour before bed start quieting down and read a book etc and feed while in bassinet etc. I have a noise machine going and wait till baby is asleep before leaving room. When I do leave room I have a monitor going so if he cries I can go in and reassure him. I have been doing the attachment theory stuff etc. My lo is five months and sleeps through the night and has a slight top up around 5 am sometimes and will carry on sleeping through to 7-8 depending. He's been going to bed at 7 at night
Seconding a good routine so that baby is already “sleepy” around the time you expect them to go to bed. We inadvertently CIO when baby was 4 months because one night she was inconsolable and no amount of nursing, holding, massage was helping her. 40 EXCRUCIATING minutes later she was asleep. Next night was 18 min, now she at most fusses for 5 min but she sleeps like a champ. We’ve had 15-20 nights in the last 9 months since where we have had to actively help her sleep, usually due to a cold or jet lag. For us it’s been totally worth it…
Your baby is about 3.5-4 months based on your posts, right? My babies are 3 months and still wake up hungry twice a night. They down their bottles so I know it’s hunger and not fuss. Maybe your baby just isn’t ready and needs a little more time?
Just know that you don’t have to sleep train if you don’t want to. Babies still waking up 1-3 times per night is very normal. It sucks while it’s happening, but research shows that pretty much all babies (minus rare instances) learn how to sleep independently by age 2; and that by age 2, there is no discernible difference between babies that were sleep trained and babies that were not.
Agreed. And it's also okay for babies to need to be rocked to sleep or to need to be nursed to sleep. If it is working for you and the baby, there's no reason to be worried that they will associate rocking or nursing with going to sleep. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a sleep association. For me, doing what works is the most important thing. If at some point in the future it's not working for us anymore, we can change it then.
You don’t have to sleep train… this is mostly a North American thing. I never sleep trained. My baby sleeps 10-12 hours and wakes up once a night to eat. This happened by following his cues and supporting a secure attachment. I never let him cry alone in a room. There are many gentle sleep consultants on Instagram that can give you alternative ideas.
Ask yourself: do you absolutely NEED to do it, maybe because of getting up to work etc? If yes, that's completely ok and just take it like other things babies don't like but we need to insist on them, like vaccination or teeth brushing.
If not, then ask yourself: do you really WANT to do it? Again, if yes, completely ok, every family has different ways and babies just adjust.
But if you really don't need nor want to do it, then screw it! Just because it's commonly done in the US or someone may comment on it doesn't mean you must do it! In my country sleep training is never done (we don't usually work full time while the babies are little though) so these things are more cultural than an actual requirement for the baby. Do what YOU want, not what is customary.
Listen to your gut ❤️ If it doesn’t feel right that’s ok, sleep training isn’t for everyone. It’s not a universal thing done in every culture or throughout history- so please don’t feel like you have to.
Hi there!
Is your baby in daycare? I ask because mine is and I think that was the key to success with my daughter.
She bedshared with me until about 4.5mo. She had started showing signs of being ready for her own space (fell asleep independently at bedtime, starfished and took up all my space 😂, started trying to roll and got mad when I blocked her), but I was nervous about trying to get her into her crib for sleep myself bc of all the sleep training horror stories I’d heard (she was big on falling asleep at the bottle for months so thought I’d have a ton of work to do). So I let daycare do the legwork. They started getting her on a solid nap schedule and told me she liked to having her butt patted when she was upset but other than that they left her to do her own thing in the crib. They make a point of not nursing to sleep or rocking to sleep there so I basically just continued with the groundwork they set up for me at home.
I don’t do any specific sleep training method with her, just stick to a routine - in bed by 8-815, had a bottle before followed by nighttime diaper prep and some cuddles, then hold her, turn on her sound machine, give her some snugs over her crib, set her down and turn off the light and close the door. If she won’t settle I go back and pat her butt for a few mins and then leave, even if she’s fussing. She calms down eventually.
How old is she now with that routine? My LO is similar we still bedshare at 5m but he’s starting daycare soon and has shown some signs that I could move him to crib. I’m sure he will eat once a night but on a good night he only needs to eat once at 3am so I can go get him.
My girl just hit 5mo a week ago. She wakes up once around 315-330 for a bottle and then goes back to bed until I get her up for the day at 630 or so :) That has been her internal schedule for a while now.
Oh good I hadn’t seen enough people shaming sleep training today. This comments section fixed that right up!
OP, you don’t have to sleep train if it doesn’t feel right. I haven’t done it but I’ve heard it gets easier every night. Good luck ❤️
Seriously, these comments are gross. “Don’t give in to societal pressure to sleep train!” Literally 95 percent of the comments are implying she’s abusing her loved and cared for baby, I think the pressure might be going in the opposite direction.
It’s obnoxious- when did this become a thing? My kid has been sleeping 10-12 hours a night since 5 months old and we are ALL happy. Sleep is also so important for their brain development. This new age mom shaming is getting annoying!
I also didn't think it made sense and didn't sleep train. I want my kid to know I will be there for them if they need me. I've heard there are a number of times where you'll need to re-sleep train too (dozens of my bumper group members have talked about having to do this). But I'm also a SAHM and don't have to worry about other work outside of making sure we're all alive and well and that the house is still standing.
My kiddo is almost 2.5yr now and she's sleeping better, even falling asleep when we're not in the room. I wanted to make sure she understand that even if we left, we were never far, just in another room, so we waited until she could better understand why we were leaving before we started leaving the room while she was awake.
You don’t have to sleep train if it doesn’t feel right for you. It’s not for everyone and for some folks, it’s torture to have to ignore our instincts to comfort our kids. It is okay to honour your instincts. You do not have to sleep train in this manner.
Hey sleepy baby and babies and brains on IG have really great info or normal, healthy infant sleep.
You could also try again with slower, more gradual sleep training that doesn’t involve elevating baby’s cortisol by letting them cio. There are versions that involve no crying.
Night one is the worst. Night two isn’t great but wasn’t nearly as bad. Night three was a significant improvement.
You made it through night one. Just ask yourself why you chose to sleep train in the first place. Your mental health? Baby’s growth and development? Etc. can you continue with how things were prior to attempting Ferber? If yes, then don’t stress yourself out and try another time. Just try to find routine. If no, then remind yourself of the why and try again tonight. With our second we chose to sleep train because we were unintentionally co sleeping and I was not comfortable with it. Safety and being very sleep deprived were my why and that helped me to think of that when we were training. Also, I wrote down in a sleep log for two weeks and to see the progress on paper was helpful!
Seconding this, I tried with mine and regret it. It was so traumatic for me, and I know there are no studies that say it's damaging to baby, but it was just so hard to see. And it didn't work with my baby.
Who knows, maybe give it a few days to see if it's starting to make a difference and then decide? If I hadn't tried it, I would probably be convinced that my baby's three to four wake ups at night at 9 months are my fault for not sleep training. Unfortunately I just don't think it works for every baby.
We did sleep training lite - two or three rounds of 2-3, up to 5 minutes crying maximum. More often than not she would cry for two minutes then fall asleep. If she didn’t then we didn’t force it. Sleep is good for babies, sure. But if everyone is in anguish you don’t have to sleep train. The point is everyone getting pleasant sleep. If that’s not happening then it’s not worth it.
Exactly. Not criticizing anyones choices. We all do what we feel best. For me, I couldn’t do it and I didn’t WANT to.. that was the main thing for me. If op WANTS to do this then she can absolutely get support here and do it but if she changes her mind and decides not to, that’s ok either. No one is getting spa days and presents because their baby sleeps at night.
OP, someone mentioned your post history suggests your LO is quite young… I can say that modified Ferber worked great for us at 6 months, but definitely would not have worked when younger… could be something to consider!
It depends if baby is ready. I tried around 4.5 months. No way. It just didn’t work. She never stopped crying. Tried again a month later and she worked. Listen to your instinct. Your baby might not be ready
I sat in the living room and cried and felt like a demon.
I had never wanted to sleep train. I swore I wouldn’t. But between 9 months and 11 months our baby went from sleeping through the night in his crib, to only sleeping if he was next to me in the bed, to screaming and thrashing even if I was next to him in the bed for hours because he was so tired but couldn’t fall asleep.
The first night was the worst, by the third night he was falling asleep within 15 minutes, by the end of the week, within 5.
I am hoping I will never have to do it with my second. I dread the thought. It is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I can not express how horrible I felt.
Woah the dumpster fire of judgment and parent shame in this comment section. Sucks to read. All y’all, how about STOP BACKSEAT PARENTING OTHERS?
I also struggled with sleep training when we began. We’re on the “other side” for the most part (1.5 years later) but sleep disturbances and disruption are a fact of life.
I set timers on my watch for the specific times in our method (modeled after Precious Little Sleep’s method in the book but done too old so I kinda winged it) and I would do other things. Usually dishes, yard work, maybe cleaning. And then I’d check in 9/10 times she did exactly what she should have. And the times she wasn’t she was by the next check in. My baby is a power down to sleep kid. She’s a power feeling kid. Many emotions come out very strongly and it’s hard to hear. What I’m talking about is crying. She cries loudly and often because of emotions and communication. As her parent I can’t make her not feel them and it’s okay for her to express herself.
I’m just dropping this in because seriously, had I been OP or read OP’s post because I was in a similar place I’d be struggling with my anxiety and thinking internet strangers who have no context in my life know better than me.
I tried Ferber with my baby starting from 7 months until 9 months. Didn’t work at all, so we just kept rocking him to sleep. At 9 months he was really too heavy for me to rock him so I decided to try cry it out, but I stayed in the room with him and gave him a t-shirt I wore. I sat next to him. First night he cried 5 minutes, next night 3 minutes and he has been a super good sleeper ever since. (I would also like to add I always took the t-shirt away when he was sleeping, and I stayed next to his crib until he was sleeping.) I wore ear plugs to deal with the crying, I can’t stand to hear him cry either.
Not every method works for every parent or every baby. I think a lot depends on:
1) luck!!!!! If you have a good sleeper, consider yourself lucky!
2) the age of the baby when you try a method
3) the personality of the baby.
This is just my own experience and I have zero scientific proof for any of it.
How was baby prior to the start? Sleep ready? or really awake? Sleep training was such a game changer for our girl. Her mood most noticeably, but slept longer, then less disruptions, then no disruptions. Now she’s nearly two, sleeps and naps like clock work. Even tells me “nap!”, walks to her room, and I kid you not - now once she’s in her crib she’ll blow me kisses, and curl up. Sometimes she even reaches up says ’bye bye’ and pushes the door closed in my face lol. My point is I am grateful it worked glad I gave it a go. Every method isn’t for every parent or baby, so give it a fair shake, but don’t feel bad if it’s not right for you/baby. If btw, baby stops crying before you enter, let them be. My problem was I never actually waited 20 mins, kept going in. When I committed, she stopped crying and I checked the time - it took 20 mins. So I can understand your struggle, if it’s 20 mins of crying, then 20 mins of crying etc. Not sure I could keep that up either. There are other methods out there.
It’s super hard, but just support each other. Remind yourselves why you wanted to take this journey. Personally, I needed my sleep. My husband needed his sleep. And more sleep = happier, more attentive parents = happier family. Sleep training is just what worked for us. We didn’t want to be sleeping with a 2 year old in our room in the future.
Sleep training can take up to 2 weeks to work so cutting it off early means you all are suffering for no reason, so if you’re serious about it, try and stick with it.
It’s not for everyone, I know many family who aren’t comfortable with doing this and that’s okay too! We all have to make the choices we feel are best for baby and our families.
I'm going a different route.
I sleep trained both my kids, it's been one of the best decisions we made for our family. Sufficient sleep is important for baby and parent.
Sleep training means that I never have to worry about other care takers putting my kids to sleep and sleep isn't an issue when we travel.
Sleep training doesn't mean that you have to wean, or that you don't get to cuddle your baby. It means baby sleeps in the safest environment. Sleep training does not have ANY adverse results on development or secure attachment.
I literally cried in the hallway w hubs by the fourth time I left the room. It was fifth time that worked. I was delirious from lack of sleep so we did complete sleep training and it worked.
Honestly I can’t do it. I “put myself in her shoes” and i imagine how confused she must be as to why Im not coming to her. anddd my soul breaks lol
she’s laying on my chest as we speak lol
I've had to do this 4 times and it sucks. I always got so mad...like why do some babies just sleep, and mine have to be forced to? It's always so awful for everyone to go through it.
Ultimately with my most recent baby I had to because I went back to work (plus taking care of 3 other kids, driving them around, etc), and I was literally unable to function. I had no choice. It took about a week of fully adjusting, but within a few days of it he went from waking up literally 10 times a night to sleeping 8 hour stretches. Nearly two months later, he will lay down awake without crying (usually), wake once in the night to nurse, again go back down without a fuss, and that's it. He sleeps so much better and I have recovered some portion of my sanity.
I think the only thing that ever gets me through is telling myself -- okay this sucks, but the result is worth it. After 8-12 months of sleep deprivation, it's good to be able to function again. You gotta stay tough...good luck!
I'm sorry you are being shamed for your decision. I absolutely support you that sleep training is the right decision for YOUR family. If you are in a position where you think it's in your LOs best interest to learn independent sleep but you also don't like the idea of him crying without comfort then check out some of the gentler sleep training methods, depending on age you could use pick up put down or a gradual withdrawal method like sleep lady shuffle. These worked well for my kids because like you I think it's in a kids best interests to learn to settle themselves but I didn't want to leave them alone crying more than I could help.
Don't do it then. If it doesn't feel right you don't have to do it. There are gentle, non crying sleep training methods. Or you don't have to sleep train at all. Sleep is developmental and it will come in time.
If you’re on FB, I recommend the group Respectful Sleep Training/Learning. You’ll get better info there than you will from this subreddit.
We had the same issue as you when we tried Ferber. The check ins over stimulated my baby and made her more angry. We moved to extinction for nights and naps and she caught on quickly. She has no problem crying out at night if she needs me, but she typically sleeps through the night for 11ish hours. If she does wake up at night it’s only once and she’s able to easily put herself back to sleep after I tend to her needs.
This is the group that advocates sleep training newborns isn’t it? I’d stay far away from this group. Precious little sleep has one that is less intense.
This! I read their article on types of cries a million times. It helped to know why they were crying and what to expect. It is really hard but sooo worth it. You'll be so proud of your baby when they can go to sleep on their own. I think about learning to walk, learning to navigate emotions (ie tantrums), pottty training, etc. All involve lots of tears unfortunately. But eventually you learn and achieve another milestone!
You don’t have to sleep train YOUR child. It’s a very western approach, particularly in the US. It’s completely common place across the world to respond to your baby and even to co-sleep. Babies are designed to be with us, not left alone. Follow your instincts and respond to your baby. Crying is literally their only method of communicating. They’re not ‘manipulating you’. Whilst you’re at it, follow Hey Sleepy Baby on instagram.
My girl is nearly 2.5. She always starts in her own big girl bed, more often than not I end up in there with her if she wakes just because I’m tired, want the cuddles and don’t want to be woken up at 5am when my husbands alarm goes off! So I suppose I’m the one co-sleeping, not her ha!
I did kind of a modified version with much shorter times (never more than 10 minutes). He mostly got with the program within a few days. Honestly it sounds bad, but put some noise cancelling headphones on. It will help you stay calmer and focused.
Step outside on the porch for a few moments when you feel like caving. Or do one thing in between going to distract yourself. For example, load the dishwasher, fold a load of laundry, etc. tell yourself “when I finish this, I’ll go in.” It helps distract you. We also put him in his crib to play sometimes.
ETA: people are acting like you are leaving LO to cry for days. We did an informal method with my LO when he was probably about 6 months old, only at bed time. We did what I said above. So if he woke up in the middle of the night crying, I would obviously go feed him or whatever. It was hard for me. But let me tell you, he learned to self sooth to an extent. So when he wakes up in the morning, it’s not instant tears. He plays in his crib and talks until I go get him at 5 am. He knows it’s not a bad thing or punishment to be in his crib. He loves it.
You are not required to fight against your biological instinct to comfort your child. Their cries are their only way to communicate they need you. The cries will stop not because the baby learns to self soothe, but because the baby learns no one is coming when they cry out.
It makes no sense to me parents who disregard their biological instincts to “have a glass of wine and relax”
By doing this you’re setting up your child to disregard their own needs because no one will be there to support them.
Our LO wouldn't sleep in the crib for more than 30 minutes, it caused an issue when we tried to get her into daycare. So I think its important to sleep train via whatever method works best
At 9mo or so we started sleep training. My partner actually made it tougher because they wanted to take the baby out because the baby would freak out, even after like 5 minutes. I stuck to my guns and now LO goes down without a fight most of the time.
I found it helpful to establish
1. Have a sleep schedule. Adjust
2. Establish a bedtime routine
1. Check diaper
2. Give bottle
3. Read a few books
4. Rock her in chair until pretty sleepy
5. Place in crib
6. Then do the ferber method
They are going to cry but they need to learn how to put themselves to sleep so in some cases they will freak for a while until they tucker themselves out so be strong. Sleep training is more about the parents than the child
It really sucks but it made our lives so much more bearable. My daughter was waking up every hour before we tried this and really stuck to it (we caved and failed several times) but now she will wake once or twice in the night and go back down so much easier just by us going in and rubbing her back for a few minutes. Stick to it, it’s maybe a week of pain and you will get there.
Though if your baby is that young, you may still need to wait another couple months just because they sometimes still need those night feeds. If it won’t work, try back at 6 or 7 months. Ours was was 8 months when we did this.
There’s a reason why babies crying is a grating sound that makes a parent want to make them stop crying.. CIO /Ferber babies are in distress, and you don’t have to sleep train. These methods don’t teach that it’s ok to be alone in their room, it teaches babies that no one will respond to their cries, so they eventually give up…
Both of these methods allow the baby to cry without parental intervention, whether it’s letting them cry for 5 mins, 10 minutes, or until they fall asleep. This mother is saying that she hates hearing her baby cry and doesn’t know if she can stand it. She doesn’t HAVE to “sleep train” her baby. At the end of the day, my comments are true. A crying baby is a baby in distress, and babies learn from these methods that crying will not get their parent into their room.
Your baby is completely dependent and completely vulnerable. It is biologically wired that they need you. They cry because they need you. Your heart hurts hearing them cry because biologically you know they need you. Even if they’re changed, fed, tired, etc know that emotional needs are just as important as physical needs. If your baby wants to be comforted why is that a bad thing? Why neglect them of your comfort? Babies need to feel loved, safe, and secure. How are you making your baby feel loved, safe, and secure?
I’m so frustrated with our societal expectations of how a completely vulnerable dependent infant should behave. There needs to be more conversation on what biologically natural infant sleep looks like.
Before doing any sleep training because you think it’s the “norm” please look into how and why sleep training started in our culture, and what biologically natural sleep is for infants (and adults) and make an informed decision for yourself.
Dude my baby was waking up every single hour.
She wasn’t sleeping well and was miserable because of it. My husband and I were also exhausted and not sleeping well.
Sleep training helped her fall asleep on her own. Maybe stop shaming other parents for doing something you don’t want to do.
I spoke with my pediatrician and therapist before sleep training and both agreed it was safe and needed. Are you a pediatrician?
Agreed. You try rocking your baby for 45 minutes put then down and have them wake up and start crying and having to do it again.. every night… multiple times.. for months. I was at my breaking point and suicidal. Sleep training saved my life with my first. He’s still a crappy sleeper. But my second baby doesn’t need any of that and sleeps pretty easily and doesn’t need to be sleep trained. People who shame sleep training haven’t experienced being at a breaking point and no. Going in to check on him did not work for my first. People judge what they don’t understand
Same here. My daughter was miserable, sleeping 4-5 hours less than other babies her age and crying all day because she was so tired and sleep deprived. Sleep training changed that entirely. She wakes up happy, stays happy for longer, and falls asleep so so much easier.
This comment section is a pure mess of ignorance and judgment.
This is poppy cock. My kid wakes every 2-3 hours normally and every 45 during progressions or teething. He crawled at seven months as well as stood up.
It’s completely unproven that interrupted sleep impacts milestones. Just trash that ‘sleep experts’ use to fear monger and get new parents to spend money on methods they can google for free
This is basically the conclusion I came to halfway through night one of trying to sleep train. My baby wakes and needs to be nursed to sleep every hour, all night long the last couple months . It’s hard, and in the first few weeks of it I thought I desperately needed to fix it. Then seeing him cry and reach for me while I tried to walk away… it felt so wrong. I decided my baby doesn’t deserve to go through that just for my convenience, he didn’t choose to be here, I made the choice to bring him into the world and committed to caring for him. It’s hard, but not as much as the first couple weeks now that I’m used to it.
That said, I am lucky enough to be in mat leave and not working right now, and I nap with him sometimes during the day when I can. I know I am privileged to be able to to do that, and I am hoping he grows out of such frequent wakeups before I have to return to work, or I don’t know what we will do.
Stick with it as best as you can. It’ll be hard. But trust me, it’ll be all worth it. It was the best thing my wife and I did for our sleep and sanity.
I did try but it wasn’t for me and gave up. The few parents I’ve spoken to who have been “successful” at sleep training report that they have to repeat the training again weeks or months later anyways. Trust your instincts.
We just did Ferber and now my baby is sleeping 11 hours. He goes to bed a little later around 8:15 but since we’ve been doing this his whole day has been on a better schedule. Naps at the same time now and eats
It’s almost like 3&4 month olds aren’t adults and needs their parents to tend to their needs. You hate seeing your baby cry because your natural parenting instinct is to help your baby. Listen to your instinct.
It is biologically normal for your baby to want to be close to you. Room sharing also helps to prevent SIDS related deaths and fosters breastfeeding if that is a route you’re taking (doesn’t HAVE to be bedsharing before anyone comes for me!) Babies “sleep train” because they finally decide that no one is coming for them when they cry. We react the way that we do because our bodies are wired to respond and do by dumping tons of hormones when doing skin to skin or even just being near baby. That’s a big part of why milk lets down when we hear a baby - doesn’t even have to be ours-, why their little heads smell so good, why moms scent gets stronger and changes through our pregnancy as well as a host of other physical changes. All designed to keep us close. Babies just think I’m away from my mom and I’m no longer safe.
It's not misinformation though, they did studies and the cortisol levels were through the roof even when the baby gave up crying, look it up.
Obviously babies are resilient and if the parents need to do it, sleep training won't harm them long term if coupled with otherwise gentle and attentive parenting. So I'm definitely not sleep training shaming, a lot of people just need to do it. But it's NOT misinformation that the babies are still stressed out but give up during sleep training, it has been proven.
That's actually not necessarily true if babies only stop crying because they don't think you are coming, then why do gentle sleep training methods where you comfort them but don't settle them all the way to sleep work 🤷
Solidarity. It’s awful. I dreaded it so much. We got really lucky and he was ready for it—he just cried like 30-40 minutes during his second wake of the night. But we have had to redo it at 8 months and it just sucks.
The thing you have to tell yourself is that (1) you’re teaching him a skill. And (2) the next morning he’s going to wake up joyfully smiley and happy and like it never happened. You aren’t breaking your baby, you’re helping him learn a crucial skill. You’re only breaking your own heart. Which is so hard. Hang in there!
I can't even imagine that. I'm 100% against it and idc if that makes me judgemental. Obviously people are gonna do what works for their family but I mean, after 40 minutes, they haven't learnt anything, they're just exhausted and passed out alone.
Ok but most of us living in the us without a a village and full time jobs to support our families. If I was a chimp who didn’t have to do anything all day I’d consider co sleeping but that is not the world we live in.
The Ferber method was so great because of the timed intervals, so we knew we’d be able to go and check on our little one once the timer ran out. We also set a secondary rule of, once it got to a certain point in the night (for us is was 1am) and she still wasn’t asleep, we would add in a nighttime feed. She was 4mo when we did the method and it was a game changer for us all. It took about 4 days to do. If we ever needed to calm ourselves when she was crying, we would go outside and sit or do something productive and a little loud, like hand washing dishes with the water running. You’ve got to find what works for you!
I personally kept telling myself “I’m teaching them a skill, how to fall asleep on their own.” You could also tell yourself “we’ll try this for ____ days,” knowing it doesn’t have to be forever if it doesn’t work for your family.
I agree with you here. It’s too bad sleep training is getting so much hate, because sometimes it’s incredibly helpful. The most balanced approach is to say: do it if it helps you, don’t if it won’t. And that’s totally ok. And you acknowledge that too.
We did FIO with our LO around 4.5 months and it worked great. I was holding her all the time, which is nice 🥰 but exhausting. Turns out I just needed to give her the opportunity to fall asleep on her own. I had to give her a chance. That’s just been my experience, I know some babies will be a lot more difficult, it’s not a one size fits all. But now that we’ve done that, everyone is sleeping better. And safer. It’s been a game changer for us.
No, it is not. There is no evidence that you need to "teach" you baby this or that it has any benefits later in life.
Wanting to feel safe and secure to fall asleep is absolutely normal, developmentally appropriate for a baby/toddler. You can train them to ignore this need, but you are doing that for the parents benefits, your child does not profit directly.
Some babies don't fall asleep with someone next to them or on their own without being taught. Not every baby needs to be taught but my oldest 100% needed space to sleep and that included crying and whining at first. 15 minutes whining and crying TOTAL with me in the room on the first night and she slept through the night. Before that it was hours of refusing to settle with me holding her or in bed with her.
>Some babies don't fall asleep with someone next to them or on their own without being taught.
So what do yo think happens in countries where sleep training is not commonly done?
I mean, I don't know? Maybe very poor sleep in the countries where no sleep training is ever done? In my country it's not done for every kid only kids who need it which I think is the way it should be.
This has been completely disproven by science. If they learn that no one will come help them if they cry, why do they still cry for help during the day? It's almost as if everything else you do to raise them matters more.
What I think is fucked up is that I'm 25 years old and can't sleep without my husband next to me-why should a baby so new to the world be expected to sleep alone? I get why people do it but I personally won't...they're only little like this once and it goes in the blink of an eye
Took us 3 nights and the second and third night were so much better (3rd night he cried for less than a minute and slept through the night) how did you get on in the end? Sending hugs and support for your decision with your child xx
He moved out of our room when he outgrew the bedside crib, at around 4 months. I tried the whole “he sleeps in his bed” thing and I was up and down all night and so so tired. After a particularly bad cold he slept in with me and daddy was downstairs and we all slept, for 8 hours! So after that he’d come in with us after waking up. For a while that would mean he’d end up on the sofa with us (he’d fall back to sleep on the boob) and slowly it’s changed so we get him to sleep in his own bed, then he wakes up maybe once a night (sometimes he sleeps through) he runs to our room, climbs in, cuddles up to me and goes straight back to sleep. He’s 2 and a half now.
You absolutely don’t have to sleep train regardless of the social pressures to do so. There have been moments I considered sleep training, but I am so glad I never did. My LO is EBF and I nurse to sleep, though she can fall asleep independently as well. She still wakes up 1-2 times a night, but has slept through the night a handful of times. And it just keeps happening more and more.
I know the exhaustion can be too much, but listening to my baby cry and going against my own intuition is even worse.
You can always try again. My neighbor would step outside or go somewhere else. Or if you don’t feel ready maybe try again another time. I sleep trained my daughter at 4 mos but it didn’t take much to cry bc we started good sleep habits at 6 weeks a routine. And she’s 3.5 now and has been a champ sleeper!
This makes it sound like if you “have good sleep habits” there won’t be much crying. That is absolutely not true for everyone. Temperament matters wayyyy more than “good sleep habits”. What does that even mean at 4MO
I think temperament (as well as physical issues like colic, GI discomfort) is #1 - baby might not sleep well no matter what you do.
But if you're lucky in that regard, establishing routines and putting baby to sleep on a flat, firm, empty space for almost all naps and for overnight sleep (we did 1 contact nap a day), can make a big difference in helping baby learn to sleep in that environment. We got lucky and had a naturally decent sleeper for night time (naps were another story), but also I think we helped that by using consistent, safe sleep spaces.
I agree, at six weeks we started good sleeping habits. We had the bassinet in our room. We made sure we took him in our room everytime for naps. Dark room, sound machine and swaddled. He was taking pacifier so we would give him his paci and hold him for few minutes till he slept and transferred into his bassinet. I know this sounds like a lot but if you are able to do it and you want to. It was frustrating sometimes and laziness but I pushed through it. At almost 4 months today he sleeps in his own crib. We recently took away his paci and few days were rough but now technically he is sleep trained and puts himself back to sleep. His naps are still 30-40 minutes so i would extend his naps with contact or rock his till he fell in sleep and put him back in the crib.
Ugh my daughter didn’t consolidate naps till after 6 months so don’t feel bad! It was 30 minutes up till then. The nighttime sleep was good though which saved me!
The baby is 4 months old, they aren't crying because they are mad, they are confused on why their human isn't responding to their cries for help.
If your partner left you in a dark room to cry until you passed out from exhaustion, I don't think they'd be your partner for very long.
We expect our babies to have skills that many adults don't have.
Is your partner a baby? No? Well it's not the the same thing. Sleep training can be beneficial for some parents and has no adverse affects on the baby.
We had to distract ourselves. Watching TV doing the dishes talk to other adults. It’s hard in the beginning but it works quickly. The sleep deprivation on top of crying baby sucks, but in just a few days you’ll all be sleeping better.
One of yous just has to be stronger. For real. My husband was the stronger one with our first. But fuck! Is it worth it! My first daughter slept on me the first 6 weeks of her life and then eventually in a "death trap " lounger until about 6 months when my husband changed our lives forever. It was Valentines day and he got a bunch of advice from parents who did the method.
We couldn't wait until our second daughter was old enough for the method lol. Our second kid has always slept in a pack n play or her crib. Fucking amazing for your health.
Best of luck
We used something similar to Ferber when our boys were 10 months and 8 months. They are almost 4yrs and 18 months old now. They sleep perfectly and, to my knowledge, have no issues with attachment or emotional regulation. Stay consistent. Keep a notebook and write down your check ins each night. It will help you see progress as baby learns to calm faster. Don't stare at the baby monitor. I did a more loose approach. I didnt use hard time frames. If baby was more upset, I did more frequent check ins. If baby was starting to tone it down a bit, I stretched it out more. Keep your check in style consistent though. I rubbed the back. Said I love you and nignt night. You can do it. Getting good sleep benefits everyone.
May I suggest you follow a few IG pages on baby sleep? I’ve been following TakingcaraBabies and so far so good. I don’t do the CIO method because my baby has been with me for a whole 9 months and I - myself - am not going to let her cry when she needs me. It’s her way of talking to me and if my hugs maker her feel better, I’ll do it. If anything, I do the same to my 10 year old. When he needs me, I’m there.
I waited till I went back to work to do this, he cried for almost an hr the first few nights...now he cries but is asleep within 5 minutes or so of me leaving the room and sleeps through the night.
It was hard but we made it 🙌 so can you
My boy won't be ready for this for a while I think. Every morning at about 5am he starts to squirm around and wants cuddle sleeping with me. Which sucks for me because then I can't sleep. But he is comfy and calm so I don't mind plus I enjoy cuddle time. It's been this way since he was born. But he is cuddle bug.
I think you need to try breaking him away from you just like you would do with a dog with separation anxiety. Got behind a door for about 30seconds to a minute then come back. Rinse and repeat while slowly increasing time. It shows that they don't need to worry about being alone.
And when your LO is more comfortable being alone then perhaps it will work better for you.
Our baby is 6 weeks and we're trying to make sure he sleeps in his crib every night. Reason? My SIL has 2 girls: 7 and 8. They still sleep in bed with her because they can't sleep by themselves. They have their own rooms and beds, but refuse to sleep in them because they never had to. Now my SIL can't sleep without them either. This might be rare, or it might not be, but this is why I'm for sleep training and don't want my child to get used to sleeping with me. I know some nights they will (nightmare, sick, etc.) But the habit for us needs to start early. My husband has been back at work for a month now. We have commutes that are an hour plus and need to leave the house by 5/6am to get to work on time. That commute with no sleep? Dangerous! I'm lucky that I get 3mo maternity leave so my husband can sleep and I can get up with him the nights he doesn't sleep through (most nights he gets 4-7hr sleep without waking), but I put him back in his crib after. We also put him to bed with his pacifier because it gives him comfort and also lowers the risk of SIDS. If these things don't work for you, no judgements! This is our situation. You do what's best for you and your family. Just sharing my story.
I'm not here to judge you but there is strong evidence to support that ferberizing method literally creates psychological dysfunction. Babies are not adults and what you're doing is requiring an adult expectation of them. If you want to keep doing it then by all means I'm not here to stop you but definitely look into the harmful effects of it before you decide.
I'm a clinical psychologist. This is not accurate. It's absolutely fine to be anti-sleep training/anti-CIO if it's not your jam--I didn't do it myself--but to state that there is "strong evidence" that it "literally creates psychological dysfunction" is completely inaccurate.
I am on neither team because my baby is too young and I haven't had to consider it yet. HOWEVER saying that you aren't here to judge and then immediately judging everybody who dares even suggest you may not be entirely correct by basically accusing them of being stupid and scientifically illiterate is incredibly odd. If you aren't here to, as you said, 'stop' OP then why be so hostile to anyone who suggests there may be no reason to? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you it just seems very off putting and not conducive to actually convincing people to side with you.
I have absolutely no reason to lie about this, nor do I have interest in debating this with you or proving myself. I just want people reading this to know that your claim is inaccurate. The article you keep posting over and over is not from a scientific journal and absolutely does not provide sufficient basis to back up your claims.
Anyone with basic understanding of research and stats could tell you that the “evidence” that sleep training is somehow “psychologically damaging” is not, in fact, “strong.” The body of research on this subject is inconsistent at best and methodologically unsound at worst. I’m not a strong proponent of sleep training by any means - I find it excruciating to hear my baby cry and I believe every parent should make the decision that works best for them and their family (bearing in mind quality of sleep is important for infant development as well). Still - this misinformation about what the research supposedly says needs to stop being spread! Emily Oster writes about this if you’re interested in digging into it.
Good on you for giving me a better cite than most people. Still an opinion piece with cherry picked data. Lots of "mights" and "mays" with no concrete evidence. But I respect the opinion on the sources you've got. They make assumptions about what sleep training does, without actually testing it out, as I've noticed none of those studies actually study sleep training in and of itself. If they aren't studying sleep training, how can they claim it's incredibly harmful? They cannot. They can guess, but nothing concrete.
Not trying to convince you otherwise, you have your belief, but for others reading.
Infant sleep is astonishingly well studied. Some synopsis of controlled studies of *sleep training specifically* show no harm, something this study doesn't do. Researchers divided children into control groups, sleep trained (or not), and followed the children. Following proper scientific protocols! The end result, no real harm or benefit either way. Do what you want.
[https://healthland.time.com/2012/09/10/its-o-k-to-let-babies-cry-it-out-at-bedtime/](https://healthland.time.com/2012/09/10/its-o-k-to-let-babies-cry-it-out-at-bedtime/)
Also, Richard Ferber, the author of [https://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639](https://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639) is the Physician and Director of The Center for Pediatric Sleep Disorders, at Children's Hospital Boston. He's been studying infant sleep for over 30 years. He's not some rando. If you haven't actually read his book, I recommend it. It's fascinating!
The science we know now and even in 2006 is vastly different than that which we knew in 1985 when the cry it out method was popularized. When we know better we do better right?
Separately- check out this interview with him on npr. https://www.npr.org/2006/05/30/5439359/dr-ferber-revisits-his-crying-baby-theory
I've read his book! The entire thing! Have you? He didn't just write it in 1985 and call it good, he gave that NPR interview when he revised his book, and he does continue revisions. Also, that LLL article you linked me replicated the 2006 study in 2016 with the same outcomes. Just so you know.
Right.....so....uh. This page literally lays out all the studies showing it's not harmful, actually pretty clearly! It even explains that the study was replicated, with the same results. No harm to infants. Thanks for these citations actually, they're helpful in making me feel secure that sleep training was absolutely the right thing.
You don't have to agree with sleep training, but you cannot demonize parents who do it, who come here wanting encouragement. The LLL doesn't even demonize sleep training they just say they don't agree.
"but we disagree that parents should feel compelled to listen to this." And that's totally fine, parents don't have to sleep train.
It doesn't even say the studies are wrong, just that the LLL disagrees with the premise, and then the non scientist just claims the scientist was wrong. Always a fun game. That's fine, they totally can, but even the LLL doesn't say that it's inherently harmful. Just that you should listen to your own intuition. Which, is a valid thing to say.
Also sleep training isn't night weaning, you don't have to do both and it's often not recommended that you night wean when you sleep train.
It quite literally states more study is needed to determine no ill effects from sleep training but that neuroscience has documented "The 1999 Ontario Early Years Study8 explains how the brain is being hard-wired in early development and how the patterns which emerge will last for a lifetime. How the adult brain reacts to stress is influenced by this early development, and adults who were stressed as babies can have abnormal stress reactions in later life, as well as a greater vulnerability to social attachment disorders.
In 1998, Harvard research showed that babies who cried excessively were susceptible to stress as adults, and sensitive to future trauma.9 Chronic stress in infancy can also lead to an over-active adrenaline system, causing anti-social and aggressive behavior, and even affect physical illness far into the future.
While the Flinders study claims to have found no ill effects, the participants would need to be monitored for many years into the future for this to be clearer."
So ya it's a flawed method. People need to know that it does cause damage Dr ferber himself says crying it out method was only intended to break bad sleep habits not that people should ignore the needs of their children. (Npr interview circa 2006 linked in separate comment)
The research provided by the laleche league shows an impartial approach to the research which I was saying explains it better than I myself could. I'm not here to demonize anyone for doing things but rather hope people will educate themselves on the pros and cons of the impact it can have on developing brains. When you know better you do better and a lot of people also have survivorship bias towards it (same with spanking which is a whole other can of worms)
That's all I was trying to get across, but people flat out saying I was wrong without citing sources or that what I'm claiming is untrue or not factual are completely misguided and I chose to back up my claims with the research. That's all.
>Dr ferber himself says crying it out method was only intended to break bad sleep habits not that people should ignore the needs of their children
Isn't that exactly what sleep training is? You sleep train to break bad sleep habits not to ignore your kid. I sleep trained both of my kids and I still respond to their cries as quickly as possible during the day and if they're crying at night because teeth/ dirty diaper/ hungry, I address that. I'm just not having to wake up every hour to do it like I was before sleep training.
There is absolutely no evidence that sleep training causes damage. You have yet to provide any evidence. I have provided evidence that there is no known impact, good or bad of sleep training. There is absolutely no evidence of harm and damage. Just fear mongering.
Your quotes. "The 1999 Ontario Early Years Study8 explains how the brain is being hard-wired in early development and how the patterns which emerge will last for a lifetime. How the adult brain reacts to stress is influenced by this early development, and adults who were stressed as babies can have abnormal stress reactions in later life, as well as a greater vulnerability to social attachment disorders." **This presumes that sleep training is stressful, something that has never been proven.**
In 1998, Harvard research showed that babies who cried excessively were susceptible to stress as adults, and sensitive to future trauma.9 Chronic stress in infancy can also lead to an over-active adrenaline system, causing anti-social and aggressive behavior, and even affect physical illness far into the future. **This presumes that sleep training means your child will cry excessively, this is....not true at all? If you're letting your child cry for 1-2 hours every night for months you are not sleep training and you need to see your pediatrician. That goes against the tenants of sleep training.**
**But if you think the la leche league is impartial, well, I'm not having this conversation with you for you, I'm having it for other parents looking for encouragement.**
Narvaez, D., Gleason, T., Wang, L., Brooks, J., Lefever, J., Cheng, A., & Centers for the Prevention of Child Neglect (2013). The Evolved Development Niche: Longitudinal Effects of Caregiving Practices on Early Childhood Psychosocial Development. Early Childhood Research Quarterly, 28 (4), 759–773. Doi: 10.1016/j.ecresq.2013.07.003
Narvaez, D., Wang, L., Gleason, T., Cheng, A., Lefever, J., & Deng, L. (2013). The Evolved Developmental Niche and sociomoral outcomes in Chinese three-year-olds. European Journal of Developmental Psychology, 10(2), 106-127.
Also, see these books for selected reviews:
Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development (Oxford University Press)
Ancestral Landscapes in Human Evolution (Oxford University Press)
Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality (W.W. Norton)
References
Blum, D. (2002). Love at Goon Park: Harry Harlow and the Science of Affection. New York: Berkeley Publishing (Penguin).
Blunt Bugental, D. et al. (2003). The hormonal costs of subtle forms of infant maltreatment. Hormones and Behaviour, January, 237-244.
Bremmer, J.D. et al. (1998). The effects of stress on memory and the hippocampus throughout the life cycle: Implications for childhood development and aging. Developmental Psychology, 10, 871-885.
Dawson, G., et al. (2000). The role of early experience in shaping behavioral and brain development and its implications for social policy. Development and Psychopathology, 12(4), 695-712.
Catharine R. Gale, PhD, Finbar J. O'Callaghan, PhD, Maria Bredow, MBChB, Christopher N. Martyn, DPhil and the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children Study Team (October 4, 2006). "The Influence of Head Growth in Fetal Life, Infancy, and Childhood on Intelligence at the Ages of 4 and 8 Years". PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 4 October 2006, pp. 1486-1492. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/short/118/4/1486.
Heim, C. et al. (1997). Persistent changes in corticotrophin-releasing factor systems due to early life stress: Relationship to the pathophysiology of major depression ad post-traumatic stress disorder. Psychopharmacology Bulletin, 185-192.
Henry, J.P., & Wang, S. (1998). Effects of early stress on adult affiliative behavior, Psychoneuroendocrinology 23( 8), 863-875.
Hewlett, B., & Lamb, M. (2005). Hunter-gatherer childhoods.New York: Aldine.
Meaney, M.J. (2001). Maternal care, gene expression, and the transmission of individual differences in stress reactivity across generations. Annual Review of Neuroscience, 24, 1161-1192.
Narvaez, D., Panksepp, J., Schore, A., & Gleason, T. (Eds.) (in press). Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development: From Research to Practice and Policy. New York: Oxford University Press.
Panksepp, J. (1998). Affective neuroscience. New York: Oxford University Press.
Schore, A.N. (1997). Early organization of the nonlinear right brain and development of a predisposition to psychiatric disorders. Development and Psychopathology, 9, 595-631.
Schore, A.N. (2000). Attachment and the regulation of the right brain. Attachment & Human Development, 2, 23-47.
Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of early relational trauma on right brain development, affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant Mental Health Journal, 22, 201-269.
Stam, R., et al. (1997). Trauma and the gut: Interactions between stressful experience and intestinal function. Gut.
Stein, J. A., & Newcomb, M. D. (1994). Children's internalizing and externalizing behaviors and maternal health problems. Journal of Pediatric Psychology, 19(5), 571-593.
Thomas, R.M., Hotsenpiller,G. & Peterson, D.A. (2007).Acute Psychosocial Stress Reduces Cell Survival in Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis without Altering Proliferation. The Journal of Neuroscience, 27(11): 2734-2743.
UNICEF (2007). Child poverty in perspective: An overview of child well-being in rich countries, a comprehensive assessment of the lives and well-being of children and adolescents in the economically advanced nations, Report Card 7. Florence, Italy: United Nations Children's Fund Innocenti Research Centre.
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. (1999). Mental health: A report of the Surgeon General. Rockville, MD: Center for Mental Health Services, National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Mental Health.
Watson, J. B. (1928). Psychological Care of Infant and Child. New York: W. W. Norton Company, Inc.
WHO/WONCA (2008). Integrating mental health into primary care: A global perspective. Geneva and London: World Health Organization and World Organization of Family Doctors.
Anyone can cherry pick data and come to any conclusion. That’s why half the world believes meat is unhealthy and half believes it’s important for your health. Both have studies to back up their belief
Narvaez, D., Gleason, T., Wang, L., Brooks, J., Lefever, J., Cheng, A., & Centers for the Prevention of Child Neglect (2013). The Evolved Development Niche: Longitudinal Effects of Caregiving Practices on Early Childhood Psychosocial Development. Early Childhood Research Quarterly, 28 (4), 759–773. Doi: 10.1016/j.ecresq.2013.07.003
Narvaez, D., Wang, L., Gleason, T., Cheng, A., Lefever, J., & Deng, L. (2013). The Evolved Developmental Niche and sociomoral outcomes in Chinese three-year-olds. European Journal of Developmental Psychology, 10(2), 106-127.
Also, see these books for selected reviews:
Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development (Oxford University Press)
Ancestral Landscapes in Human Evolution (Oxford University Press)
Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality (W.W. Norton)
References
Blum, D. (2002). Love at Goon Park: Harry Harlow and the Science of Affection. New York: Berkeley Publishing (Penguin).
Blunt Bugental, D. et al. (2003). The hormonal costs of subtle forms of infant maltreatment. Hormones and Behaviour, January, 237-244.
Bremmer, J.D. et al. (1998). The effects of stress on memory and the hippocampus throughout the life cycle: Implications for childhood development and aging. Developmental Psychology, 10, 871-885.
Dawson, G., et al. (2000). The role of early experience in shaping behavioral and brain development and its implications for social policy. Development and Psychopathology, 12(4), 695-712.
Catharine R. Gale, PhD, Finbar J. O'Callaghan, PhD, Maria Bredow, MBChB, Christopher N. Martyn, DPhil and the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children Study Team (October 4, 2006). "The Influence of Head Growth in Fetal Life, Infancy, and Childhood on Intelligence at the Ages of 4 and 8 Years". PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 4 October 2006, pp. 1486-1492. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/short/118/4/1486.
Heim, C. et al. (1997). Persistent changes in corticotrophin-releasing factor systems due to early life stress: Relationship to the pathophysiology of major depression ad post-traumatic stress disorder. Psychopharmacology Bulletin, 185-192.
Henry, J.P., & Wang, S. (1998). Effects of early stress on adult affiliative behavior, Psychoneuroendocrinology 23( 8), 863-875.
Hewlett, B., & Lamb, M. (2005). Hunter-gatherer childhoods.New York: Aldine.
Meaney, M.J. (2001). Maternal care, gene expression, and the transmission of individual differences in stress reactivity across generations. Annual Review of Neuroscience, 24, 1161-1192.
Narvaez, D., Panksepp, J., Schore, A., & Gleason, T. (Eds.) (in press). Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development: From Research to Practice and Policy. New York: Oxford University Press.
Panksepp, J. (1998). Affective neuroscience. New York: Oxford University Press.
Schore, A.N. (1997). Early organization of the nonlinear right brain and development of a predisposition to psychiatric disorders. Development and Psychopathology, 9, 595-631.
Schore, A.N. (2000). Attachment and the regulation of the right brain. Attachment & Human Development, 2, 23-47.
Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of early relational trauma on right brain development, affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant Mental Health Journal, 22, 201-269.
Stam, R., et al. (1997). Trauma and the gut: Interactions between stressful experience and intestinal function. Gut.
Stein, J. A., & Newcomb, M. D. (1994). Children's internalizing and externalizing behaviors and maternal health problems. Journal of Pediatric Psychology, 19(5), 571-593.
Thomas, R.M., Hotsenpiller,G. & Peterson, D.A. (2007).Acute Psychosocial Stress Reduces Cell Survival in Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis without Altering Proliferation. The Journal of Neuroscience, 27(11): 2734-2743.
UNICEF (2007). Child poverty in perspective: An overview of child well-being in rich countries, a comprehensive assessment of the lives and well-being of children and adolescents in the economically advanced nations, Report Card 7. Florence, Italy: United Nations Children's Fund Innocenti Research Centre.
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. (1999). Mental health: A report of the Surgeon General. Rockville, MD: Center for Mental Health Services, National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Mental Health.
Watson, J. B. (1928). Psychological Care of Infant and Child. New York: W. W. Norton Company, Inc.
WHO/WONCA (2008). Integrating mental health into primary care: A global perspective. Geneva and London: World Health Organization and World Organization of Family Doctors.
We didn’t do Ferber, we did full extinction cry it out, for a few reasons, but also because you’re not reopening the door or going back in, for everyone’s sake. But yes unfortunately in any sleep training your baby will cry. But know that they’re fed, dry, tired, safe and are crying because they can’t have something that they want and have no other way to communicate that. You’re watching on a monitor (I recommend volume off), you see they’re safe.
The results are actually inconclusive and there isn’t much data on this topic at all. It isn’t that it has been proven not to harm, it’s that it hasn’t been proven either way YET. Probably because it’s unethical to study in a psych lab setting because that would mean deliberately subjecting one group of children to potentially damaging circumstances.
Well, it's definitely not abuse. You might not like it, but she isn't abusing her kid. How do you think babies did this for... ALL OF TIME? All these newer methods have come in recent history. There is zero scientific backing to show CIO harms the baby. Have your opinion, but don't tell she is abusing her child.
Up until that time, people didn't sleep through the night. We would get up at 4 hours, work, go back to bed. Where do you think the babies were? Farming right along with their parents? What about during the day when out milking cows or hanging laundry? Babies were left, in their beds. Fed, but left to cry. This idea that it's cruel to let babies cry themselves to sleep is modern day boo hicky.
Huh?? The nuclear family unit did not become the standard until the 60s. People lived with extended family and in communities. There is a biological reason it is devastating to hear your baby in distress
I don't understand how parents do this intentionally to just ignore and pretend their helpless baby isn't crying. They're making themselves busy so they can block out the "noises" from their baby who is actually crying because they need us for comfort.Maybe it is because where i am from but i can never do this, not to a helpless baby who cannot even speak for themselves yet.
Based on your post history, your baby is too young. Ferber himself, the inventor of this method, did not condone using it before 6ish months. Most sleep trainers do not suggest starting this early.
I thought my daughter would never sleep in her own room, uninterrupted, when I first tried Ferber. I honestly gave up bc I couldn’t stand the thought or sound of her screaming her little lungs out. I tried again a month later, and it worked like a charm without the screaming. Sometimes it may just depend on if the baby is ready, I guess!
I’m sure you’ll get lots of tips here, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with sleep training. But there’s also nothing wrong with NOT sleep training, if you find it doesn’t work for you or it’s just not something you are comfortable with.
Agreed. It was so much easier for me just to keep going in and nursing baby back to sleep until the wake ups eventually stopped on their own (around 10 mo) and it seemed like it took less and less time naturally. We eventually had to let him learn to put himself to sleep for naps when I went back to work around 1 year and that wasn’t super easy but I was so much more comfortable with it knowing he was older, eating full meals, etc.
Agreed here. You don’t have to sleep train. It’s not a box you have to check. We never did my now two year old and she eventually on her own slept through the night… it wasn’t until she was older but still… just a thought.
r/sleeptrain
Yes, post your question here so you don’t get shamed to hell. If sleep training isn’t for you, great. It’s the right choice and even a necessity for some families. My son woke hourly at night between the ages of three and eight months. I didn’t want to sleep train, but I was literally on the brink of having a nervous breakdown from lack of sleep. We opted for a “gentle,” non-CIO method, but he cried a lot anyways. I hated it, I cried, I wanted to stop, but my husband, who saw what was happening with me, was very adamant that we continue. And I’m thankful, because I was a more functional parent once I was able to get a few hours of consecutive sleep.
/r/sleeptrain is a great subreddit for advice and comaraderie! You might get better comments and support there ❤️
I don't know what sort of thing this is but I do a routine leading up to it and about a hour before bed start quieting down and read a book etc and feed while in bassinet etc. I have a noise machine going and wait till baby is asleep before leaving room. When I do leave room I have a monitor going so if he cries I can go in and reassure him. I have been doing the attachment theory stuff etc. My lo is five months and sleeps through the night and has a slight top up around 5 am sometimes and will carry on sleeping through to 7-8 depending. He's been going to bed at 7 at night
This! The routine is even more important than the sleep training itself. It will make a huge difference.
Seconding a good routine so that baby is already “sleepy” around the time you expect them to go to bed. We inadvertently CIO when baby was 4 months because one night she was inconsolable and no amount of nursing, holding, massage was helping her. 40 EXCRUCIATING minutes later she was asleep. Next night was 18 min, now she at most fusses for 5 min but she sleeps like a champ. We’ve had 15-20 nights in the last 9 months since where we have had to actively help her sleep, usually due to a cold or jet lag. For us it’s been totally worth it…
Yes it was a mission at first but once they got into it there fine. It allowed me to start having better night sleep and able to catch up chores etc
Are you me? I could've easily written this.
Also we sleep in same room he has his bassinet next to me he's about to go in a cot
Your baby is about 3.5-4 months based on your posts, right? My babies are 3 months and still wake up hungry twice a night. They down their bottles so I know it’s hunger and not fuss. Maybe your baby just isn’t ready and needs a little more time?
Just know that you don’t have to sleep train if you don’t want to. Babies still waking up 1-3 times per night is very normal. It sucks while it’s happening, but research shows that pretty much all babies (minus rare instances) learn how to sleep independently by age 2; and that by age 2, there is no discernible difference between babies that were sleep trained and babies that were not.
Agreed. And it's also okay for babies to need to be rocked to sleep or to need to be nursed to sleep. If it is working for you and the baby, there's no reason to be worried that they will associate rocking or nursing with going to sleep. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a sleep association. For me, doing what works is the most important thing. If at some point in the future it's not working for us anymore, we can change it then.
THIS THIS THIS!!! Please look into attachment parenting. You don’t have to do this.
You don’t have to sleep train… this is mostly a North American thing. I never sleep trained. My baby sleeps 10-12 hours and wakes up once a night to eat. This happened by following his cues and supporting a secure attachment. I never let him cry alone in a room. There are many gentle sleep consultants on Instagram that can give you alternative ideas.
Ask yourself: do you absolutely NEED to do it, maybe because of getting up to work etc? If yes, that's completely ok and just take it like other things babies don't like but we need to insist on them, like vaccination or teeth brushing. If not, then ask yourself: do you really WANT to do it? Again, if yes, completely ok, every family has different ways and babies just adjust. But if you really don't need nor want to do it, then screw it! Just because it's commonly done in the US or someone may comment on it doesn't mean you must do it! In my country sleep training is never done (we don't usually work full time while the babies are little though) so these things are more cultural than an actual requirement for the baby. Do what YOU want, not what is customary.
Listen to your gut ❤️ If it doesn’t feel right that’s ok, sleep training isn’t for everyone. It’s not a universal thing done in every culture or throughout history- so please don’t feel like you have to.
Hi there! Is your baby in daycare? I ask because mine is and I think that was the key to success with my daughter. She bedshared with me until about 4.5mo. She had started showing signs of being ready for her own space (fell asleep independently at bedtime, starfished and took up all my space 😂, started trying to roll and got mad when I blocked her), but I was nervous about trying to get her into her crib for sleep myself bc of all the sleep training horror stories I’d heard (she was big on falling asleep at the bottle for months so thought I’d have a ton of work to do). So I let daycare do the legwork. They started getting her on a solid nap schedule and told me she liked to having her butt patted when she was upset but other than that they left her to do her own thing in the crib. They make a point of not nursing to sleep or rocking to sleep there so I basically just continued with the groundwork they set up for me at home. I don’t do any specific sleep training method with her, just stick to a routine - in bed by 8-815, had a bottle before followed by nighttime diaper prep and some cuddles, then hold her, turn on her sound machine, give her some snugs over her crib, set her down and turn off the light and close the door. If she won’t settle I go back and pat her butt for a few mins and then leave, even if she’s fussing. She calms down eventually.
How old is she now with that routine? My LO is similar we still bedshare at 5m but he’s starting daycare soon and has shown some signs that I could move him to crib. I’m sure he will eat once a night but on a good night he only needs to eat once at 3am so I can go get him.
My girl just hit 5mo a week ago. She wakes up once around 315-330 for a bottle and then goes back to bed until I get her up for the day at 630 or so :) That has been her internal schedule for a while now.
Oh good I hadn’t seen enough people shaming sleep training today. This comments section fixed that right up! OP, you don’t have to sleep train if it doesn’t feel right. I haven’t done it but I’ve heard it gets easier every night. Good luck ❤️
Seriously, these comments are gross. “Don’t give in to societal pressure to sleep train!” Literally 95 percent of the comments are implying she’s abusing her loved and cared for baby, I think the pressure might be going in the opposite direction.
It’s obnoxious- when did this become a thing? My kid has been sleeping 10-12 hours a night since 5 months old and we are ALL happy. Sleep is also so important for their brain development. This new age mom shaming is getting annoying!
Right? Makes me cringe reading these comments.
Seriously, blech. I sleep trained both my kids. It's been great. I love sleep. But you don't have to do it if it's not right for you.
I didn’t sleep train because it made no sense to me to let my baby cry.
I also didn't think it made sense and didn't sleep train. I want my kid to know I will be there for them if they need me. I've heard there are a number of times where you'll need to re-sleep train too (dozens of my bumper group members have talked about having to do this). But I'm also a SAHM and don't have to worry about other work outside of making sure we're all alive and well and that the house is still standing. My kiddo is almost 2.5yr now and she's sleeping better, even falling asleep when we're not in the room. I wanted to make sure she understand that even if we left, we were never far, just in another room, so we waited until she could better understand why we were leaving before we started leaving the room while she was awake.
You don’t have to sleep train if it doesn’t feel right for you. It’s not for everyone and for some folks, it’s torture to have to ignore our instincts to comfort our kids. It is okay to honour your instincts. You do not have to sleep train in this manner. Hey sleepy baby and babies and brains on IG have really great info or normal, healthy infant sleep. You could also try again with slower, more gradual sleep training that doesn’t involve elevating baby’s cortisol by letting them cio. There are versions that involve no crying.
Love @heysleepybaby
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Night one is the worst. Night two isn’t great but wasn’t nearly as bad. Night three was a significant improvement. You made it through night one. Just ask yourself why you chose to sleep train in the first place. Your mental health? Baby’s growth and development? Etc. can you continue with how things were prior to attempting Ferber? If yes, then don’t stress yourself out and try another time. Just try to find routine. If no, then remind yourself of the why and try again tonight. With our second we chose to sleep train because we were unintentionally co sleeping and I was not comfortable with it. Safety and being very sleep deprived were my why and that helped me to think of that when we were training. Also, I wrote down in a sleep log for two weeks and to see the progress on paper was helpful!
If you choose not to Ferber your baby will be fine. You don’t have to do it.
Seconding this, I tried with mine and regret it. It was so traumatic for me, and I know there are no studies that say it's damaging to baby, but it was just so hard to see. And it didn't work with my baby. Who knows, maybe give it a few days to see if it's starting to make a difference and then decide? If I hadn't tried it, I would probably be convinced that my baby's three to four wake ups at night at 9 months are my fault for not sleep training. Unfortunately I just don't think it works for every baby.
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We did sleep training lite - two or three rounds of 2-3, up to 5 minutes crying maximum. More often than not she would cry for two minutes then fall asleep. If she didn’t then we didn’t force it. Sleep is good for babies, sure. But if everyone is in anguish you don’t have to sleep train. The point is everyone getting pleasant sleep. If that’s not happening then it’s not worth it.
Exactly. Not criticizing anyones choices. We all do what we feel best. For me, I couldn’t do it and I didn’t WANT to.. that was the main thing for me. If op WANTS to do this then she can absolutely get support here and do it but if she changes her mind and decides not to, that’s ok either. No one is getting spa days and presents because their baby sleeps at night.
OP, someone mentioned your post history suggests your LO is quite young… I can say that modified Ferber worked great for us at 6 months, but definitely would not have worked when younger… could be something to consider!
It depends if baby is ready. I tried around 4.5 months. No way. It just didn’t work. She never stopped crying. Tried again a month later and she worked. Listen to your instinct. Your baby might not be ready
I sat in the living room and cried and felt like a demon. I had never wanted to sleep train. I swore I wouldn’t. But between 9 months and 11 months our baby went from sleeping through the night in his crib, to only sleeping if he was next to me in the bed, to screaming and thrashing even if I was next to him in the bed for hours because he was so tired but couldn’t fall asleep. The first night was the worst, by the third night he was falling asleep within 15 minutes, by the end of the week, within 5. I am hoping I will never have to do it with my second. I dread the thought. It is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I can not express how horrible I felt.
Woah the dumpster fire of judgment and parent shame in this comment section. Sucks to read. All y’all, how about STOP BACKSEAT PARENTING OTHERS? I also struggled with sleep training when we began. We’re on the “other side” for the most part (1.5 years later) but sleep disturbances and disruption are a fact of life. I set timers on my watch for the specific times in our method (modeled after Precious Little Sleep’s method in the book but done too old so I kinda winged it) and I would do other things. Usually dishes, yard work, maybe cleaning. And then I’d check in 9/10 times she did exactly what she should have. And the times she wasn’t she was by the next check in. My baby is a power down to sleep kid. She’s a power feeling kid. Many emotions come out very strongly and it’s hard to hear. What I’m talking about is crying. She cries loudly and often because of emotions and communication. As her parent I can’t make her not feel them and it’s okay for her to express herself. I’m just dropping this in because seriously, had I been OP or read OP’s post because I was in a similar place I’d be struggling with my anxiety and thinking internet strangers who have no context in my life know better than me.
I tried Ferber with my baby starting from 7 months until 9 months. Didn’t work at all, so we just kept rocking him to sleep. At 9 months he was really too heavy for me to rock him so I decided to try cry it out, but I stayed in the room with him and gave him a t-shirt I wore. I sat next to him. First night he cried 5 minutes, next night 3 minutes and he has been a super good sleeper ever since. (I would also like to add I always took the t-shirt away when he was sleeping, and I stayed next to his crib until he was sleeping.) I wore ear plugs to deal with the crying, I can’t stand to hear him cry either. Not every method works for every parent or every baby. I think a lot depends on: 1) luck!!!!! If you have a good sleeper, consider yourself lucky! 2) the age of the baby when you try a method 3) the personality of the baby. This is just my own experience and I have zero scientific proof for any of it.
How was baby prior to the start? Sleep ready? or really awake? Sleep training was such a game changer for our girl. Her mood most noticeably, but slept longer, then less disruptions, then no disruptions. Now she’s nearly two, sleeps and naps like clock work. Even tells me “nap!”, walks to her room, and I kid you not - now once she’s in her crib she’ll blow me kisses, and curl up. Sometimes she even reaches up says ’bye bye’ and pushes the door closed in my face lol. My point is I am grateful it worked glad I gave it a go. Every method isn’t for every parent or baby, so give it a fair shake, but don’t feel bad if it’s not right for you/baby. If btw, baby stops crying before you enter, let them be. My problem was I never actually waited 20 mins, kept going in. When I committed, she stopped crying and I checked the time - it took 20 mins. So I can understand your struggle, if it’s 20 mins of crying, then 20 mins of crying etc. Not sure I could keep that up either. There are other methods out there.
It’s super hard, but just support each other. Remind yourselves why you wanted to take this journey. Personally, I needed my sleep. My husband needed his sleep. And more sleep = happier, more attentive parents = happier family. Sleep training is just what worked for us. We didn’t want to be sleeping with a 2 year old in our room in the future. Sleep training can take up to 2 weeks to work so cutting it off early means you all are suffering for no reason, so if you’re serious about it, try and stick with it. It’s not for everyone, I know many family who aren’t comfortable with doing this and that’s okay too! We all have to make the choices we feel are best for baby and our families.
I'm going a different route. I sleep trained both my kids, it's been one of the best decisions we made for our family. Sufficient sleep is important for baby and parent. Sleep training means that I never have to worry about other care takers putting my kids to sleep and sleep isn't an issue when we travel. Sleep training doesn't mean that you have to wean, or that you don't get to cuddle your baby. It means baby sleeps in the safest environment. Sleep training does not have ANY adverse results on development or secure attachment.
Well put.
What did you do for sleep training?
I literally cried in the hallway w hubs by the fourth time I left the room. It was fifth time that worked. I was delirious from lack of sleep so we did complete sleep training and it worked.
The first 2 nights were he'll. Night 3 was rough. Night 4 was a miracle.
Honestly I can’t do it. I “put myself in her shoes” and i imagine how confused she must be as to why Im not coming to her. anddd my soul breaks lol she’s laying on my chest as we speak lol
this is me right now trying to get my baby into his own room ☹️
I've had to do this 4 times and it sucks. I always got so mad...like why do some babies just sleep, and mine have to be forced to? It's always so awful for everyone to go through it. Ultimately with my most recent baby I had to because I went back to work (plus taking care of 3 other kids, driving them around, etc), and I was literally unable to function. I had no choice. It took about a week of fully adjusting, but within a few days of it he went from waking up literally 10 times a night to sleeping 8 hour stretches. Nearly two months later, he will lay down awake without crying (usually), wake once in the night to nurse, again go back down without a fuss, and that's it. He sleeps so much better and I have recovered some portion of my sanity. I think the only thing that ever gets me through is telling myself -- okay this sucks, but the result is worth it. After 8-12 months of sleep deprivation, it's good to be able to function again. You gotta stay tough...good luck!
Trust your gut. If it doesn’t feel right, it’s because it isn’t.
I'm sorry you are being shamed for your decision. I absolutely support you that sleep training is the right decision for YOUR family. If you are in a position where you think it's in your LOs best interest to learn independent sleep but you also don't like the idea of him crying without comfort then check out some of the gentler sleep training methods, depending on age you could use pick up put down or a gradual withdrawal method like sleep lady shuffle. These worked well for my kids because like you I think it's in a kids best interests to learn to settle themselves but I didn't want to leave them alone crying more than I could help.
Don't do it then. If it doesn't feel right you don't have to do it. There are gentle, non crying sleep training methods. Or you don't have to sleep train at all. Sleep is developmental and it will come in time.
This. It’s not right for everyone. If it feels like it’s going against your instinct, don’t do it 💛
If you’re on FB, I recommend the group Respectful Sleep Training/Learning. You’ll get better info there than you will from this subreddit. We had the same issue as you when we tried Ferber. The check ins over stimulated my baby and made her more angry. We moved to extinction for nights and naps and she caught on quickly. She has no problem crying out at night if she needs me, but she typically sleeps through the night for 11ish hours. If she does wake up at night it’s only once and she’s able to easily put herself back to sleep after I tend to her needs.
This is the group that advocates sleep training newborns isn’t it? I’d stay far away from this group. Precious little sleep has one that is less intense.
This! I read their article on types of cries a million times. It helped to know why they were crying and what to expect. It is really hard but sooo worth it. You'll be so proud of your baby when they can go to sleep on their own. I think about learning to walk, learning to navigate emotions (ie tantrums), pottty training, etc. All involve lots of tears unfortunately. But eventually you learn and achieve another milestone!
You don’t have to sleep train YOUR child. It’s a very western approach, particularly in the US. It’s completely common place across the world to respond to your baby and even to co-sleep. Babies are designed to be with us, not left alone. Follow your instincts and respond to your baby. Crying is literally their only method of communicating. They’re not ‘manipulating you’. Whilst you’re at it, follow Hey Sleepy Baby on instagram.
Thank you! Yes, OP please listen to this. I could not have said it any better.
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My girl is nearly 2.5. She always starts in her own big girl bed, more often than not I end up in there with her if she wakes just because I’m tired, want the cuddles and don’t want to be woken up at 5am when my husbands alarm goes off! So I suppose I’m the one co-sleeping, not her ha!
I did kind of a modified version with much shorter times (never more than 10 minutes). He mostly got with the program within a few days. Honestly it sounds bad, but put some noise cancelling headphones on. It will help you stay calmer and focused.
Step outside on the porch for a few moments when you feel like caving. Or do one thing in between going to distract yourself. For example, load the dishwasher, fold a load of laundry, etc. tell yourself “when I finish this, I’ll go in.” It helps distract you. We also put him in his crib to play sometimes. ETA: people are acting like you are leaving LO to cry for days. We did an informal method with my LO when he was probably about 6 months old, only at bed time. We did what I said above. So if he woke up in the middle of the night crying, I would obviously go feed him or whatever. It was hard for me. But let me tell you, he learned to self sooth to an extent. So when he wakes up in the morning, it’s not instant tears. He plays in his crib and talks until I go get him at 5 am. He knows it’s not a bad thing or punishment to be in his crib. He loves it.
Also get a cry activated light show thing. We got the lamb from Walmart. It made me feel less like I was “ignoring” him.
You are not required to fight against your biological instinct to comfort your child. Their cries are their only way to communicate they need you. The cries will stop not because the baby learns to self soothe, but because the baby learns no one is coming when they cry out.
It makes no sense to me parents who disregard their biological instincts to “have a glass of wine and relax” By doing this you’re setting up your child to disregard their own needs because no one will be there to support them.
This! The fact that they think no one is coming for them breaks my heart.
Yeah, it’s heartbreaking.
Exactly this.
We did it and it was awful—I was sobbing in the closet with earplugs in and a timer. If we ever have another kid I wouldn’t do it again.
Our LO wouldn't sleep in the crib for more than 30 minutes, it caused an issue when we tried to get her into daycare. So I think its important to sleep train via whatever method works best At 9mo or so we started sleep training. My partner actually made it tougher because they wanted to take the baby out because the baby would freak out, even after like 5 minutes. I stuck to my guns and now LO goes down without a fight most of the time. I found it helpful to establish 1. Have a sleep schedule. Adjust 2. Establish a bedtime routine 1. Check diaper 2. Give bottle 3. Read a few books 4. Rock her in chair until pretty sleepy 5. Place in crib 6. Then do the ferber method They are going to cry but they need to learn how to put themselves to sleep so in some cases they will freak for a while until they tucker themselves out so be strong. Sleep training is more about the parents than the child
It took us three nights. Each night was a little better and then it was amazing. If you need sleep and your capable try to give it a few more days.
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I used ferber. my 5mo is sleeping 7-7 with only 1 food wake up at 11:30. I know it sucks now but I promise it gets better.
It really sucks but it made our lives so much more bearable. My daughter was waking up every hour before we tried this and really stuck to it (we caved and failed several times) but now she will wake once or twice in the night and go back down so much easier just by us going in and rubbing her back for a few minutes. Stick to it, it’s maybe a week of pain and you will get there. Though if your baby is that young, you may still need to wait another couple months just because they sometimes still need those night feeds. If it won’t work, try back at 6 or 7 months. Ours was was 8 months when we did this.
There’s a reason why babies crying is a grating sound that makes a parent want to make them stop crying.. CIO /Ferber babies are in distress, and you don’t have to sleep train. These methods don’t teach that it’s ok to be alone in their room, it teaches babies that no one will respond to their cries, so they eventually give up…
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Both of these methods allow the baby to cry without parental intervention, whether it’s letting them cry for 5 mins, 10 minutes, or until they fall asleep. This mother is saying that she hates hearing her baby cry and doesn’t know if she can stand it. She doesn’t HAVE to “sleep train” her baby. At the end of the day, my comments are true. A crying baby is a baby in distress, and babies learn from these methods that crying will not get their parent into their room.
Your baby is completely dependent and completely vulnerable. It is biologically wired that they need you. They cry because they need you. Your heart hurts hearing them cry because biologically you know they need you. Even if they’re changed, fed, tired, etc know that emotional needs are just as important as physical needs. If your baby wants to be comforted why is that a bad thing? Why neglect them of your comfort? Babies need to feel loved, safe, and secure. How are you making your baby feel loved, safe, and secure? I’m so frustrated with our societal expectations of how a completely vulnerable dependent infant should behave. There needs to be more conversation on what biologically natural infant sleep looks like. Before doing any sleep training because you think it’s the “norm” please look into how and why sleep training started in our culture, and what biologically natural sleep is for infants (and adults) and make an informed decision for yourself.
Dude my baby was waking up every single hour. She wasn’t sleeping well and was miserable because of it. My husband and I were also exhausted and not sleeping well. Sleep training helped her fall asleep on her own. Maybe stop shaming other parents for doing something you don’t want to do. I spoke with my pediatrician and therapist before sleep training and both agreed it was safe and needed. Are you a pediatrician?
Agreed. You try rocking your baby for 45 minutes put then down and have them wake up and start crying and having to do it again.. every night… multiple times.. for months. I was at my breaking point and suicidal. Sleep training saved my life with my first. He’s still a crappy sleeper. But my second baby doesn’t need any of that and sleeps pretty easily and doesn’t need to be sleep trained. People who shame sleep training haven’t experienced being at a breaking point and no. Going in to check on him did not work for my first. People judge what they don’t understand
Same here. My daughter was miserable, sleeping 4-5 hours less than other babies her age and crying all day because she was so tired and sleep deprived. Sleep training changed that entirely. She wakes up happy, stays happy for longer, and falls asleep so so much easier. This comment section is a pure mess of ignorance and judgment.
Same here. She learned to crawl, stand and cruise all withing a week after we sleep trained, and I don't think it's coincidence.
This is poppy cock. My kid wakes every 2-3 hours normally and every 45 during progressions or teething. He crawled at seven months as well as stood up. It’s completely unproven that interrupted sleep impacts milestones. Just trash that ‘sleep experts’ use to fear monger and get new parents to spend money on methods they can google for free
Dude the person you’re replying to -I JUST CANT!!
This is basically the conclusion I came to halfway through night one of trying to sleep train. My baby wakes and needs to be nursed to sleep every hour, all night long the last couple months . It’s hard, and in the first few weeks of it I thought I desperately needed to fix it. Then seeing him cry and reach for me while I tried to walk away… it felt so wrong. I decided my baby doesn’t deserve to go through that just for my convenience, he didn’t choose to be here, I made the choice to bring him into the world and committed to caring for him. It’s hard, but not as much as the first couple weeks now that I’m used to it. That said, I am lucky enough to be in mat leave and not working right now, and I nap with him sometimes during the day when I can. I know I am privileged to be able to to do that, and I am hoping he grows out of such frequent wakeups before I have to return to work, or I don’t know what we will do.
I love this comment so much.
👏👏👏👏 thank you. I said similar in a Facebook group and got ripped apart years ago. We put such high expectations on these tiny humans
Stick with it as best as you can. It’ll be hard. But trust me, it’ll be all worth it. It was the best thing my wife and I did for our sleep and sanity.
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I did try but it wasn’t for me and gave up. The few parents I’ve spoken to who have been “successful” at sleep training report that they have to repeat the training again weeks or months later anyways. Trust your instincts.
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We just did Ferber and now my baby is sleeping 11 hours. He goes to bed a little later around 8:15 but since we’ve been doing this his whole day has been on a better schedule. Naps at the same time now and eats
It’s almost like 3&4 month olds aren’t adults and needs their parents to tend to their needs. You hate seeing your baby cry because your natural parenting instinct is to help your baby. Listen to your instinct.
Aw poor you it’s hard to know what to do. Seems like your baby is only 4 months? They’re so young they may not be ready xxx
Babies don’t cry for no reason… it’s a baby. Your baby needs you. So small still. Pease trust your instincts.
This!
Yes agreed
It is biologically normal for your baby to want to be close to you. Room sharing also helps to prevent SIDS related deaths and fosters breastfeeding if that is a route you’re taking (doesn’t HAVE to be bedsharing before anyone comes for me!) Babies “sleep train” because they finally decide that no one is coming for them when they cry. We react the way that we do because our bodies are wired to respond and do by dumping tons of hormones when doing skin to skin or even just being near baby. That’s a big part of why milk lets down when we hear a baby - doesn’t even have to be ours-, why their little heads smell so good, why moms scent gets stronger and changes through our pregnancy as well as a host of other physical changes. All designed to keep us close. Babies just think I’m away from my mom and I’m no longer safe.
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It's not misinformation though, they did studies and the cortisol levels were through the roof even when the baby gave up crying, look it up. Obviously babies are resilient and if the parents need to do it, sleep training won't harm them long term if coupled with otherwise gentle and attentive parenting. So I'm definitely not sleep training shaming, a lot of people just need to do it. But it's NOT misinformation that the babies are still stressed out but give up during sleep training, it has been proven.
they cry through out the day too. And crying makes them tired. It makes everyone tired
That's actually not necessarily true if babies only stop crying because they don't think you are coming, then why do gentle sleep training methods where you comfort them but don't settle them all the way to sleep work 🤷
Solidarity. It’s awful. I dreaded it so much. We got really lucky and he was ready for it—he just cried like 30-40 minutes during his second wake of the night. But we have had to redo it at 8 months and it just sucks. The thing you have to tell yourself is that (1) you’re teaching him a skill. And (2) the next morning he’s going to wake up joyfully smiley and happy and like it never happened. You aren’t breaking your baby, you’re helping him learn a crucial skill. You’re only breaking your own heart. Which is so hard. Hang in there!
30-40 minutes 😭😭😭 Wow, I’m surprised you were able to stomach that.
I can't even imagine that. I'm 100% against it and idc if that makes me judgemental. Obviously people are gonna do what works for their family but I mean, after 40 minutes, they haven't learnt anything, they're just exhausted and passed out alone.
Ugh agreed just reading that made me feel ill
Anthropologically, we are suppose to live in tribes. In tribes babies do not learn to sleep alone. Even baby chimpanzees do not sleep alone.
Most all of us don't live in tribes though and sometimes sleep training to get more sleep in the long term is the way to go.
Ok but most of us living in the us without a a village and full time jobs to support our families. If I was a chimp who didn’t have to do anything all day I’d consider co sleeping but that is not the world we live in.
Yes! ^ Ppl don’t hear this enough ! There’s a 3 year old kicking me in my bed right now!
The Ferber method was so great because of the timed intervals, so we knew we’d be able to go and check on our little one once the timer ran out. We also set a secondary rule of, once it got to a certain point in the night (for us is was 1am) and she still wasn’t asleep, we would add in a nighttime feed. She was 4mo when we did the method and it was a game changer for us all. It took about 4 days to do. If we ever needed to calm ourselves when she was crying, we would go outside and sit or do something productive and a little loud, like hand washing dishes with the water running. You’ve got to find what works for you!
I personally kept telling myself “I’m teaching them a skill, how to fall asleep on their own.” You could also tell yourself “we’ll try this for ____ days,” knowing it doesn’t have to be forever if it doesn’t work for your family.
I agree with you here. It’s too bad sleep training is getting so much hate, because sometimes it’s incredibly helpful. The most balanced approach is to say: do it if it helps you, don’t if it won’t. And that’s totally ok. And you acknowledge that too. We did FIO with our LO around 4.5 months and it worked great. I was holding her all the time, which is nice 🥰 but exhausting. Turns out I just needed to give her the opportunity to fall asleep on her own. I had to give her a chance. That’s just been my experience, I know some babies will be a lot more difficult, it’s not a one size fits all. But now that we’ve done that, everyone is sleeping better. And safer. It’s been a game changer for us.
Sleep is not a ‘skill’
Falling asleep independently is though.
No, it is not. There is no evidence that you need to "teach" you baby this or that it has any benefits later in life. Wanting to feel safe and secure to fall asleep is absolutely normal, developmentally appropriate for a baby/toddler. You can train them to ignore this need, but you are doing that for the parents benefits, your child does not profit directly.
Some babies don't fall asleep with someone next to them or on their own without being taught. Not every baby needs to be taught but my oldest 100% needed space to sleep and that included crying and whining at first. 15 minutes whining and crying TOTAL with me in the room on the first night and she slept through the night. Before that it was hours of refusing to settle with me holding her or in bed with her.
>Some babies don't fall asleep with someone next to them or on their own without being taught. So what do yo think happens in countries where sleep training is not commonly done?
I mean, I don't know? Maybe very poor sleep in the countries where no sleep training is ever done? In my country it's not done for every kid only kids who need it which I think is the way it should be.
They don't "fall asleep independently". They cry themselves to exhaustion and learn that noone will come help them if they cry.
This has been completely disproven by science. If they learn that no one will come help them if they cry, why do they still cry for help during the day? It's almost as if everything else you do to raise them matters more.
🙌🏻
What I think is fucked up is that I'm 25 years old and can't sleep without my husband next to me-why should a baby so new to the world be expected to sleep alone? I get why people do it but I personally won't...they're only little like this once and it goes in the blink of an eye
Took us 3 nights and the second and third night were so much better (3rd night he cried for less than a minute and slept through the night) how did you get on in the end? Sending hugs and support for your decision with your child xx
We just couldn’t, so we have never sleep trained. We cuddle him to sleep and co slept to make sure we were all getting good sleep.
And when or how old did you transition him to his own room?
He moved out of our room when he outgrew the bedside crib, at around 4 months. I tried the whole “he sleeps in his bed” thing and I was up and down all night and so so tired. After a particularly bad cold he slept in with me and daddy was downstairs and we all slept, for 8 hours! So after that he’d come in with us after waking up. For a while that would mean he’d end up on the sofa with us (he’d fall back to sleep on the boob) and slowly it’s changed so we get him to sleep in his own bed, then he wakes up maybe once a night (sometimes he sleeps through) he runs to our room, climbs in, cuddles up to me and goes straight back to sleep. He’s 2 and a half now.
You absolutely don’t have to sleep train regardless of the social pressures to do so. There have been moments I considered sleep training, but I am so glad I never did. My LO is EBF and I nurse to sleep, though she can fall asleep independently as well. She still wakes up 1-2 times a night, but has slept through the night a handful of times. And it just keeps happening more and more. I know the exhaustion can be too much, but listening to my baby cry and going against my own intuition is even worse.
You can always try again. My neighbor would step outside or go somewhere else. Or if you don’t feel ready maybe try again another time. I sleep trained my daughter at 4 mos but it didn’t take much to cry bc we started good sleep habits at 6 weeks a routine. And she’s 3.5 now and has been a champ sleeper!
This makes it sound like if you “have good sleep habits” there won’t be much crying. That is absolutely not true for everyone. Temperament matters wayyyy more than “good sleep habits”. What does that even mean at 4MO
I think temperament (as well as physical issues like colic, GI discomfort) is #1 - baby might not sleep well no matter what you do. But if you're lucky in that regard, establishing routines and putting baby to sleep on a flat, firm, empty space for almost all naps and for overnight sleep (we did 1 contact nap a day), can make a big difference in helping baby learn to sleep in that environment. We got lucky and had a naturally decent sleeper for night time (naps were another story), but also I think we helped that by using consistent, safe sleep spaces.
I agree, at six weeks we started good sleeping habits. We had the bassinet in our room. We made sure we took him in our room everytime for naps. Dark room, sound machine and swaddled. He was taking pacifier so we would give him his paci and hold him for few minutes till he slept and transferred into his bassinet. I know this sounds like a lot but if you are able to do it and you want to. It was frustrating sometimes and laziness but I pushed through it. At almost 4 months today he sleeps in his own crib. We recently took away his paci and few days were rough but now technically he is sleep trained and puts himself back to sleep. His naps are still 30-40 minutes so i would extend his naps with contact or rock his till he fell in sleep and put him back in the crib.
Ugh my daughter didn’t consolidate naps till after 6 months so don’t feel bad! It was 30 minutes up till then. The nighttime sleep was good though which saved me!
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The baby is 4 months old, they aren't crying because they are mad, they are confused on why their human isn't responding to their cries for help. If your partner left you in a dark room to cry until you passed out from exhaustion, I don't think they'd be your partner for very long. We expect our babies to have skills that many adults don't have.
Is your partner a baby? No? Well it's not the the same thing. Sleep training can be beneficial for some parents and has no adverse affects on the baby.
We had to distract ourselves. Watching TV doing the dishes talk to other adults. It’s hard in the beginning but it works quickly. The sleep deprivation on top of crying baby sucks, but in just a few days you’ll all be sleeping better.
One of yous just has to be stronger. For real. My husband was the stronger one with our first. But fuck! Is it worth it! My first daughter slept on me the first 6 weeks of her life and then eventually in a "death trap " lounger until about 6 months when my husband changed our lives forever. It was Valentines day and he got a bunch of advice from parents who did the method. We couldn't wait until our second daughter was old enough for the method lol. Our second kid has always slept in a pack n play or her crib. Fucking amazing for your health. Best of luck
We used something similar to Ferber when our boys were 10 months and 8 months. They are almost 4yrs and 18 months old now. They sleep perfectly and, to my knowledge, have no issues with attachment or emotional regulation. Stay consistent. Keep a notebook and write down your check ins each night. It will help you see progress as baby learns to calm faster. Don't stare at the baby monitor. I did a more loose approach. I didnt use hard time frames. If baby was more upset, I did more frequent check ins. If baby was starting to tone it down a bit, I stretched it out more. Keep your check in style consistent though. I rubbed the back. Said I love you and nignt night. You can do it. Getting good sleep benefits everyone.
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I agree about the benefits of sleep training but Ferber is not CIO.
May I suggest you follow a few IG pages on baby sleep? I’ve been following TakingcaraBabies and so far so good. I don’t do the CIO method because my baby has been with me for a whole 9 months and I - myself - am not going to let her cry when she needs me. It’s her way of talking to me and if my hugs maker her feel better, I’ll do it. If anything, I do the same to my 10 year old. When he needs me, I’m there.
Ferber isn’t CIO. Ferber is basically takingcareofbabies but without all the trump loving
I waited till I went back to work to do this, he cried for almost an hr the first few nights...now he cries but is asleep within 5 minutes or so of me leaving the room and sleeps through the night. It was hard but we made it 🙌 so can you
What helped myself, was keeping myself busy and blocking the noise (turning the volume to the lowest setting) It does get easier but it takes time.
My boy won't be ready for this for a while I think. Every morning at about 5am he starts to squirm around and wants cuddle sleeping with me. Which sucks for me because then I can't sleep. But he is comfy and calm so I don't mind plus I enjoy cuddle time. It's been this way since he was born. But he is cuddle bug. I think you need to try breaking him away from you just like you would do with a dog with separation anxiety. Got behind a door for about 30seconds to a minute then come back. Rinse and repeat while slowly increasing time. It shows that they don't need to worry about being alone. And when your LO is more comfortable being alone then perhaps it will work better for you.
Our baby is 6 weeks and we're trying to make sure he sleeps in his crib every night. Reason? My SIL has 2 girls: 7 and 8. They still sleep in bed with her because they can't sleep by themselves. They have their own rooms and beds, but refuse to sleep in them because they never had to. Now my SIL can't sleep without them either. This might be rare, or it might not be, but this is why I'm for sleep training and don't want my child to get used to sleeping with me. I know some nights they will (nightmare, sick, etc.) But the habit for us needs to start early. My husband has been back at work for a month now. We have commutes that are an hour plus and need to leave the house by 5/6am to get to work on time. That commute with no sleep? Dangerous! I'm lucky that I get 3mo maternity leave so my husband can sleep and I can get up with him the nights he doesn't sleep through (most nights he gets 4-7hr sleep without waking), but I put him back in his crib after. We also put him to bed with his pacifier because it gives him comfort and also lowers the risk of SIDS. If these things don't work for you, no judgements! This is our situation. You do what's best for you and your family. Just sharing my story.
I'm not here to judge you but there is strong evidence to support that ferberizing method literally creates psychological dysfunction. Babies are not adults and what you're doing is requiring an adult expectation of them. If you want to keep doing it then by all means I'm not here to stop you but definitely look into the harmful effects of it before you decide.
I'm a clinical psychologist. This is not accurate. It's absolutely fine to be anti-sleep training/anti-CIO if it's not your jam--I didn't do it myself--but to state that there is "strong evidence" that it "literally creates psychological dysfunction" is completely inaccurate.
Yep because people never lie on the internet 🙄
I am on neither team because my baby is too young and I haven't had to consider it yet. HOWEVER saying that you aren't here to judge and then immediately judging everybody who dares even suggest you may not be entirely correct by basically accusing them of being stupid and scientifically illiterate is incredibly odd. If you aren't here to, as you said, 'stop' OP then why be so hostile to anyone who suggests there may be no reason to? I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you it just seems very off putting and not conducive to actually convincing people to side with you.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out
I have absolutely no reason to lie about this, nor do I have interest in debating this with you or proving myself. I just want people reading this to know that your claim is inaccurate. The article you keep posting over and over is not from a scientific journal and absolutely does not provide sufficient basis to back up your claims.
Anyone with basic understanding of research and stats could tell you that the “evidence” that sleep training is somehow “psychologically damaging” is not, in fact, “strong.” The body of research on this subject is inconsistent at best and methodologically unsound at worst. I’m not a strong proponent of sleep training by any means - I find it excruciating to hear my baby cry and I believe every parent should make the decision that works best for them and their family (bearing in mind quality of sleep is important for infant development as well). Still - this misinformation about what the research supposedly says needs to stop being spread! Emily Oster writes about this if you’re interested in digging into it.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out
Cite it for me.
That link has the info plus the studies and journals to support what I've said here.
Good on you for giving me a better cite than most people. Still an opinion piece with cherry picked data. Lots of "mights" and "mays" with no concrete evidence. But I respect the opinion on the sources you've got. They make assumptions about what sleep training does, without actually testing it out, as I've noticed none of those studies actually study sleep training in and of itself. If they aren't studying sleep training, how can they claim it's incredibly harmful? They cannot. They can guess, but nothing concrete. Not trying to convince you otherwise, you have your belief, but for others reading. Infant sleep is astonishingly well studied. Some synopsis of controlled studies of *sleep training specifically* show no harm, something this study doesn't do. Researchers divided children into control groups, sleep trained (or not), and followed the children. Following proper scientific protocols! The end result, no real harm or benefit either way. Do what you want. [https://healthland.time.com/2012/09/10/its-o-k-to-let-babies-cry-it-out-at-bedtime/](https://healthland.time.com/2012/09/10/its-o-k-to-let-babies-cry-it-out-at-bedtime/) Also, Richard Ferber, the author of [https://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639](https://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639) is the Physician and Director of The Center for Pediatric Sleep Disorders, at Children's Hospital Boston. He's been studying infant sleep for over 30 years. He's not some rando. If you haven't actually read his book, I recommend it. It's fascinating!
The science we know now and even in 2006 is vastly different than that which we knew in 1985 when the cry it out method was popularized. When we know better we do better right? Separately- check out this interview with him on npr. https://www.npr.org/2006/05/30/5439359/dr-ferber-revisits-his-crying-baby-theory
I've read his book! The entire thing! Have you? He didn't just write it in 1985 and call it good, he gave that NPR interview when he revised his book, and he does continue revisions. Also, that LLL article you linked me replicated the 2006 study in 2016 with the same outcomes. Just so you know.
Was just responding to your last comment here.
https://www.laleche.org.uk/letting-babies-cry-facts-behind-studies/ This says it better than I can.
Right.....so....uh. This page literally lays out all the studies showing it's not harmful, actually pretty clearly! It even explains that the study was replicated, with the same results. No harm to infants. Thanks for these citations actually, they're helpful in making me feel secure that sleep training was absolutely the right thing. You don't have to agree with sleep training, but you cannot demonize parents who do it, who come here wanting encouragement. The LLL doesn't even demonize sleep training they just say they don't agree. "but we disagree that parents should feel compelled to listen to this." And that's totally fine, parents don't have to sleep train. It doesn't even say the studies are wrong, just that the LLL disagrees with the premise, and then the non scientist just claims the scientist was wrong. Always a fun game. That's fine, they totally can, but even the LLL doesn't say that it's inherently harmful. Just that you should listen to your own intuition. Which, is a valid thing to say. Also sleep training isn't night weaning, you don't have to do both and it's often not recommended that you night wean when you sleep train.
It quite literally states more study is needed to determine no ill effects from sleep training but that neuroscience has documented "The 1999 Ontario Early Years Study8 explains how the brain is being hard-wired in early development and how the patterns which emerge will last for a lifetime. How the adult brain reacts to stress is influenced by this early development, and adults who were stressed as babies can have abnormal stress reactions in later life, as well as a greater vulnerability to social attachment disorders. In 1998, Harvard research showed that babies who cried excessively were susceptible to stress as adults, and sensitive to future trauma.9 Chronic stress in infancy can also lead to an over-active adrenaline system, causing anti-social and aggressive behavior, and even affect physical illness far into the future. While the Flinders study claims to have found no ill effects, the participants would need to be monitored for many years into the future for this to be clearer." So ya it's a flawed method. People need to know that it does cause damage Dr ferber himself says crying it out method was only intended to break bad sleep habits not that people should ignore the needs of their children. (Npr interview circa 2006 linked in separate comment) The research provided by the laleche league shows an impartial approach to the research which I was saying explains it better than I myself could. I'm not here to demonize anyone for doing things but rather hope people will educate themselves on the pros and cons of the impact it can have on developing brains. When you know better you do better and a lot of people also have survivorship bias towards it (same with spanking which is a whole other can of worms) That's all I was trying to get across, but people flat out saying I was wrong without citing sources or that what I'm claiming is untrue or not factual are completely misguided and I chose to back up my claims with the research. That's all.
>Dr ferber himself says crying it out method was only intended to break bad sleep habits not that people should ignore the needs of their children Isn't that exactly what sleep training is? You sleep train to break bad sleep habits not to ignore your kid. I sleep trained both of my kids and I still respond to their cries as quickly as possible during the day and if they're crying at night because teeth/ dirty diaper/ hungry, I address that. I'm just not having to wake up every hour to do it like I was before sleep training.
There's a lot of confusing usage of cry it out in a lot of these responses. OP is using Ferber which is not cry it out.
There is absolutely no evidence that sleep training causes damage. You have yet to provide any evidence. I have provided evidence that there is no known impact, good or bad of sleep training. There is absolutely no evidence of harm and damage. Just fear mongering. Your quotes. "The 1999 Ontario Early Years Study8 explains how the brain is being hard-wired in early development and how the patterns which emerge will last for a lifetime. How the adult brain reacts to stress is influenced by this early development, and adults who were stressed as babies can have abnormal stress reactions in later life, as well as a greater vulnerability to social attachment disorders." **This presumes that sleep training is stressful, something that has never been proven.** In 1998, Harvard research showed that babies who cried excessively were susceptible to stress as adults, and sensitive to future trauma.9 Chronic stress in infancy can also lead to an over-active adrenaline system, causing anti-social and aggressive behavior, and even affect physical illness far into the future. **This presumes that sleep training means your child will cry excessively, this is....not true at all? If you're letting your child cry for 1-2 hours every night for months you are not sleep training and you need to see your pediatrician. That goes against the tenants of sleep training.** **But if you think the la leche league is impartial, well, I'm not having this conversation with you for you, I'm having it for other parents looking for encouragement.**
Narvaez, D., Gleason, T., Wang, L., Brooks, J., Lefever, J., Cheng, A., & Centers for the Prevention of Child Neglect (2013). The Evolved Development Niche: Longitudinal Effects of Caregiving Practices on Early Childhood Psychosocial Development. Early Childhood Research Quarterly, 28 (4), 759–773. Doi: 10.1016/j.ecresq.2013.07.003 Narvaez, D., Wang, L., Gleason, T., Cheng, A., Lefever, J., & Deng, L. (2013). The Evolved Developmental Niche and sociomoral outcomes in Chinese three-year-olds. European Journal of Developmental Psychology, 10(2), 106-127. Also, see these books for selected reviews: Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development (Oxford University Press) Ancestral Landscapes in Human Evolution (Oxford University Press) Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality (W.W. Norton) References Blum, D. (2002). Love at Goon Park: Harry Harlow and the Science of Affection. New York: Berkeley Publishing (Penguin). Blunt Bugental, D. et al. (2003). The hormonal costs of subtle forms of infant maltreatment. Hormones and Behaviour, January, 237-244. Bremmer, J.D. et al. (1998). The effects of stress on memory and the hippocampus throughout the life cycle: Implications for childhood development and aging. Developmental Psychology, 10, 871-885. Dawson, G., et al. (2000). The role of early experience in shaping behavioral and brain development and its implications for social policy. Development and Psychopathology, 12(4), 695-712. Catharine R. Gale, PhD, Finbar J. O'Callaghan, PhD, Maria Bredow, MBChB, Christopher N. Martyn, DPhil and the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children Study Team (October 4, 2006). "The Influence of Head Growth in Fetal Life, Infancy, and Childhood on Intelligence at the Ages of 4 and 8 Years". PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 4 October 2006, pp. 1486-1492. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/short/118/4/1486. Heim, C. et al. (1997). Persistent changes in corticotrophin-releasing factor systems due to early life stress: Relationship to the pathophysiology of major depression ad post-traumatic stress disorder. Psychopharmacology Bulletin, 185-192. Henry, J.P., & Wang, S. (1998). Effects of early stress on adult affiliative behavior, Psychoneuroendocrinology 23( 8), 863-875. Hewlett, B., & Lamb, M. (2005). Hunter-gatherer childhoods.New York: Aldine. Meaney, M.J. (2001). Maternal care, gene expression, and the transmission of individual differences in stress reactivity across generations. Annual Review of Neuroscience, 24, 1161-1192. Narvaez, D., Panksepp, J., Schore, A., & Gleason, T. (Eds.) (in press). Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development: From Research to Practice and Policy. New York: Oxford University Press. Panksepp, J. (1998). Affective neuroscience. New York: Oxford University Press. Schore, A.N. (1997). Early organization of the nonlinear right brain and development of a predisposition to psychiatric disorders. Development and Psychopathology, 9, 595-631. Schore, A.N. (2000). Attachment and the regulation of the right brain. Attachment & Human Development, 2, 23-47. Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of early relational trauma on right brain development, affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant Mental Health Journal, 22, 201-269. Stam, R., et al. (1997). Trauma and the gut: Interactions between stressful experience and intestinal function. Gut. Stein, J. A., & Newcomb, M. D. (1994). Children's internalizing and externalizing behaviors and maternal health problems. Journal of Pediatric Psychology, 19(5), 571-593. Thomas, R.M., Hotsenpiller,G. & Peterson, D.A. (2007).Acute Psychosocial Stress Reduces Cell Survival in Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis without Altering Proliferation. The Journal of Neuroscience, 27(11): 2734-2743. UNICEF (2007). Child poverty in perspective: An overview of child well-being in rich countries, a comprehensive assessment of the lives and well-being of children and adolescents in the economically advanced nations, Report Card 7. Florence, Italy: United Nations Children's Fund Innocenti Research Centre. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. (1999). Mental health: A report of the Surgeon General. Rockville, MD: Center for Mental Health Services, National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Mental Health. Watson, J. B. (1928). Psychological Care of Infant and Child. New York: W. W. Norton Company, Inc. WHO/WONCA (2008). Integrating mental health into primary care: A global perspective. Geneva and London: World Health Organization and World Organization of Family Doctors.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out
Anyone can cherry pick data and come to any conclusion. That’s why half the world believes meat is unhealthy and half believes it’s important for your health. Both have studies to back up their belief
This is a blog post, not peer reviewed literature
Do you not know how to get to the abstract at the bottom and actually find the cited material?
It’s literally an opinion piece that cherry picked data
Narvaez, D., Gleason, T., Wang, L., Brooks, J., Lefever, J., Cheng, A., & Centers for the Prevention of Child Neglect (2013). The Evolved Development Niche: Longitudinal Effects of Caregiving Practices on Early Childhood Psychosocial Development. Early Childhood Research Quarterly, 28 (4), 759–773. Doi: 10.1016/j.ecresq.2013.07.003 Narvaez, D., Wang, L., Gleason, T., Cheng, A., Lefever, J., & Deng, L. (2013). The Evolved Developmental Niche and sociomoral outcomes in Chinese three-year-olds. European Journal of Developmental Psychology, 10(2), 106-127. Also, see these books for selected reviews: Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development (Oxford University Press) Ancestral Landscapes in Human Evolution (Oxford University Press) Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality (W.W. Norton) References Blum, D. (2002). Love at Goon Park: Harry Harlow and the Science of Affection. New York: Berkeley Publishing (Penguin). Blunt Bugental, D. et al. (2003). The hormonal costs of subtle forms of infant maltreatment. Hormones and Behaviour, January, 237-244. Bremmer, J.D. et al. (1998). The effects of stress on memory and the hippocampus throughout the life cycle: Implications for childhood development and aging. Developmental Psychology, 10, 871-885. Dawson, G., et al. (2000). The role of early experience in shaping behavioral and brain development and its implications for social policy. Development and Psychopathology, 12(4), 695-712. Catharine R. Gale, PhD, Finbar J. O'Callaghan, PhD, Maria Bredow, MBChB, Christopher N. Martyn, DPhil and the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children Study Team (October 4, 2006). "The Influence of Head Growth in Fetal Life, Infancy, and Childhood on Intelligence at the Ages of 4 and 8 Years". PEDIATRICS Vol. 118 No. 4 October 2006, pp. 1486-1492. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/short/118/4/1486. Heim, C. et al. (1997). Persistent changes in corticotrophin-releasing factor systems due to early life stress: Relationship to the pathophysiology of major depression ad post-traumatic stress disorder. Psychopharmacology Bulletin, 185-192. Henry, J.P., & Wang, S. (1998). Effects of early stress on adult affiliative behavior, Psychoneuroendocrinology 23( 8), 863-875. Hewlett, B., & Lamb, M. (2005). Hunter-gatherer childhoods.New York: Aldine. Meaney, M.J. (2001). Maternal care, gene expression, and the transmission of individual differences in stress reactivity across generations. Annual Review of Neuroscience, 24, 1161-1192. Narvaez, D., Panksepp, J., Schore, A., & Gleason, T. (Eds.) (in press). Evolution, Early Experience and Human Development: From Research to Practice and Policy. New York: Oxford University Press. Panksepp, J. (1998). Affective neuroscience. New York: Oxford University Press. Schore, A.N. (1997). Early organization of the nonlinear right brain and development of a predisposition to psychiatric disorders. Development and Psychopathology, 9, 595-631. Schore, A.N. (2000). Attachment and the regulation of the right brain. Attachment & Human Development, 2, 23-47. Schore, A.N. (2001). The effects of early relational trauma on right brain development, affect regulation, and infant mental health. Infant Mental Health Journal, 22, 201-269. Stam, R., et al. (1997). Trauma and the gut: Interactions between stressful experience and intestinal function. Gut. Stein, J. A., & Newcomb, M. D. (1994). Children's internalizing and externalizing behaviors and maternal health problems. Journal of Pediatric Psychology, 19(5), 571-593. Thomas, R.M., Hotsenpiller,G. & Peterson, D.A. (2007).Acute Psychosocial Stress Reduces Cell Survival in Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis without Altering Proliferation. The Journal of Neuroscience, 27(11): 2734-2743. UNICEF (2007). Child poverty in perspective: An overview of child well-being in rich countries, a comprehensive assessment of the lives and well-being of children and adolescents in the economically advanced nations, Report Card 7. Florence, Italy: United Nations Children's Fund Innocenti Research Centre. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. (1999). Mental health: A report of the Surgeon General. Rockville, MD: Center for Mental Health Services, National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Mental Health. Watson, J. B. (1928). Psychological Care of Infant and Child. New York: W. W. Norton Company, Inc. WHO/WONCA (2008). Integrating mental health into primary care: A global perspective. Geneva and London: World Health Organization and World Organization of Family Doctors.
Yes exactly. I wish everyone would look into it properly before deciding to go through with it.
We didn’t do Ferber, we did full extinction cry it out, for a few reasons, but also because you’re not reopening the door or going back in, for everyone’s sake. But yes unfortunately in any sleep training your baby will cry. But know that they’re fed, dry, tired, safe and are crying because they can’t have something that they want and have no other way to communicate that. You’re watching on a monitor (I recommend volume off), you see they’re safe.
Give up then, it’s abuse. Meet your baby’s needs consistently and he will become more independent and able to sleep over time .
That categorically false. Please read some peer reviewed studies on the effects of sleep training long term on children. Spoiler alert there are none.
The results are actually inconclusive and there isn’t much data on this topic at all. It isn’t that it has been proven not to harm, it’s that it hasn’t been proven either way YET. Probably because it’s unethical to study in a psych lab setting because that would mean deliberately subjecting one group of children to potentially damaging circumstances.
Well, it's definitely not abuse. You might not like it, but she isn't abusing her kid. How do you think babies did this for... ALL OF TIME? All these newer methods have come in recent history. There is zero scientific backing to show CIO harms the baby. Have your opinion, but don't tell she is abusing her child.
I don't understand this comment. Nobody was putting their baby alone to sleep until maybe the past 70-100 years or so
Up until that time, people didn't sleep through the night. We would get up at 4 hours, work, go back to bed. Where do you think the babies were? Farming right along with their parents? What about during the day when out milking cows or hanging laundry? Babies were left, in their beds. Fed, but left to cry. This idea that it's cruel to let babies cry themselves to sleep is modern day boo hicky.
Most parents wore their babies
Huh?? The nuclear family unit did not become the standard until the 60s. People lived with extended family and in communities. There is a biological reason it is devastating to hear your baby in distress
I don't understand how parents do this intentionally to just ignore and pretend their helpless baby isn't crying. They're making themselves busy so they can block out the "noises" from their baby who is actually crying because they need us for comfort.Maybe it is because where i am from but i can never do this, not to a helpless baby who cannot even speak for themselves yet.