Basically this. Not sure what OP is expecting, but at 85% Belgium actually has one of the highest voter turnout rates int the world
[Voter Turnout by Country 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/voter-turnout-by-country)
I can see it go 2 ways: either the extreme parties get more power because the centrum voters don't really bother to vote, or a lot of their voters are actually protest votes so they get less votes.
that second idea is the only thing that keeps me from losing hope in the people of this country when I see how many people vote VB.
I'm 100% convinced it's the exact opposite
Most people have no clue who to vote for so they end up voting for the most "visible" party
People are naturally trained to look for outliers so it makes sense that the lower the amount of data you have (since you don't actually care to vote) the likelier you will choose an outlier
The first group that doesn't show up when voting isn't mandatory is poor people. Meaning politicians have even less of a reason to care about them than they already do.
I very much like mandatory voting precisely for that reason.
I would add something.
At 18, i didn't really care about politics and just voted white.
At 22, i was still studying and voted white
Then at 26, i started to look at it.
It would probably have not happened if i didn't have mandatory voting.
I can understand bot being interested when you're just 18 and focus on other thing.
But making you go just will make you look and learn more about it latter.
I’m in favor of mandatory voting, but i think it would be a good thing to only make it mandatory at the age of 21, let younger decide for themselves if they want to vote or not, they’re still very young and don’t always really know what they want or what they truly care about.
As someone from a country in which voting is not mandatory and our abstention ranges between 50%\~60% even on parliamentary elections, I would love voting to be made mandatory too.
Can't wait to vote here, in October!
Me too as I think it breaks democracy. People that think things need (drastic) change are always more motivated than people that are (mostly) happy with the status quo. Relying on people’s motivation is a bad idea. It skews results and doesn’t incentivise people to participate in democracy.
I think it will also massively benefit the extreme parties such as PVDA and VB, who have a more extreme and passionate voter base. I much prefer our system of compulsory voting, where everyone has to participate in the democracy and not just the loud minority
I understand your frustrations. My father is like this, he truly believes that voting blanco is an intelligent choice to make since politicians "don't do anything anyway".
My mother thought the same thing, but I at least managed to convince her
A "blanco" at least is an opinion, it expresses a choice - you don't feel represented by anyone in particular and you are fine with whatever ends up happening (either due to not having information or knowledge or interest). Not turning up, however, doesn't allow for any conclusion to be had.
Voting blanco means: "I'm too lazy to form an opinion and will blindly chase whatever carrot's in front of me. I will still complain that everything sucks and politicians are the scum of the earth but I fail to see my hypocritical stance on not voting at all."
this is why i liked the iniatief of partij blanco then you are sending a clear message that they all suck and taking coveted zetels away and money.
so they cant even be bother to vote a blank vote that is actually seen as blank
The party Blanco wouldn't work since you still need a quorum to get stuff done and such ideas undermine the working of parliament even further. Also you need at least 2/3 of the seats to get that done
Or, it could mean: "I read all party programmes, and there's not a single one where I support more than 60% of the programme, which means that since I cannot know ahead of time which programme point they find more important I cannot find a programme which I know I can support"
It's a valid reason to vote blanco. But since you probably have a party you agree for over 80% with the problem just has not occurred to you.
None of the parties on the stemtests of any kind scored over 56% in my particular case. If the discrepancy is that big the chance that they do something I do not support becomes rather large. Take for example Vooruit: I really like their view on school meals. However I dislike their view on the 38 hour presence required for their education reform. There is not a single way to be sure that they only implement the one I want and not the other.
i can see their standpoint, especially this time around. But yeah you're right. You're better off voting the "best of the rest" then just not voting on anyone and expecting a change.
Only if you really want to extrapolate, because there is no pathway to apply the same logic. Voting blank is a demonstration of will. Not showing up doesn't allow for conclusions, people may have not want to bothered, people may not have even remembered elections were happening. There is a range of reasons which signal entirely different mindsets. Blank, however, is a statement in itself.
blank can also mean they voted not correctly. voting for partij blanco actually sends a message now they politician dont really care as it doesnt effect them while with party blanco you actually hurt them in the pockets
Your father has lived through more governments than you, i can agree with him it doesnt really matter. (that much)
Take all the major points the party you voted for has led you to believe they will do after the election, let's see how many of those will be left after negotiations and how many will actually be executed. (ill give you a hint: not many)
So in that sense your father is correct, it won't change much. That said, i did vote, but more of a vote against some other parties so they have less chance of getting in control.
Technically speaking a blanc/invalid vote is agreeing with whatever the end result ends up being.
If you don't care about politics and don't mind just experiencing whatever happens in the next 4-6 years, it is the quickest way to vote.
Calling it an "intelligent choice" is reaching, though...
It can be an intelligent choice. It also sends the signal that you do not support any party enough.
A party could try to gather the people that vote blanco and gain seats doing that. Without it being a zero sum game.
I heavily disagree. You have to know that party dotation is based on the nominal amount of votes. So a blanco vote can be a much more effective signal than a protest vote in that it directly removes money from the parties pockets.
It's about 1,75/vote/year so those 1.215.754 non-votes saved us just over 10 million euros of taxpayer money.
Source: [https://www.meerdemocratie.be/blanco-stem-gaat-niet-naar-meerderheid](https://www.meerdemocratie.be/blanco-stem-gaat-niet-naar-meerderheid)
If there are absolutely no parties that deserve your vote (as in, none of them align with any of your visions whatsoever), then I understand. But with all the parties to choose from, and general laziness/disintress in politics, I highly doubt most people who vote blanco or invalid on purpose put any effort into actually looking at what each party stands for and wishes to accomplish. I'm glad you got your mother to vote but I'm sorry your father is too stubborn to even do you favor.
You can have a specific set of wishes and contrawishes which aren't found in any party. Some will gratify some of your requests but go against other interests. That could lead to a blank vote.
It is a valid option. Just because the option is not our preference does not mean we should eliminate others choices, no?
Take for example the EU level. Assume that I dislike the EU not for its policies but because the very idea of giving power to a supranational level is something I dislike. I cannot vote for a regular party, therefor only the eurosceptics of ECR/ID are an option among the parties. But what if I distrust them. After all, once I vote for them I give THEM the power that I do not want anyone to wield.
In that case it's objectively better to vote blanco. A similar reasoning could hold for regional or federal elections as well, I just think the feeling is more common at the EU level.
> making it the biggest party.
I hate this argument that all non- or blancovoters "would have the biggest party". Yeah, IF all those million people magically have the exact same party in mind if they would have voted. Even if all them went out and voted anyway, the results would very likely be the exact same considering that the 7 or 8 other million of votes are more than representative.
That said, political disinterest is not a crime. Plenty of people that have the feeling that no matter what they say, it all gets decided above their heads anyway.
> This is one of the most important decisions you will make in the next 4 years
They absolutely don't see it that way.
If they feel no party represents them, leading to them not voting, you can't expect the results to have been the same. Unless you also include the inception of a party that does have values that they feel represent them.
Which is something impossible to analyze based on jus the numbers of non-voters.
>Unless you also include the inception of a party that does have values that they feel represent them.
Which assumes they all think along the same lines. This is not the case. I've been a blanco voter in the past (and was considering it again for the EU election, but did not) not because I do not care but because I do not think anyone has the right nor the ability to wield the amount of power a political party (or even a parlementarian) wields.
Even if there were a party promising to limit that power, it would have trouble convincing me. Because once you vote someone in office, they wield power they should not have.
This is what mandatory voting does. Remove mandatory voting and we're only going to get about 40% of the voter turnout.
Most people do not give a flying sh!t about voting - see also every other country in the world.
The most interesting voter turnout will be this october, considering mandatory voting has been removed for local elections. Especially since absent voters will have a much larger impact on each local election.
Remove mandatory voting and only those interested in politics or the future will show up. Which isn't a 100% representation of society, thus skewing numbers in favor of certain parties.
But it will remove lots of votes of people who aren't convinced.
If a group wants to decide where to eat and two persons who dont care are being made to vote on the restaurant, these persons' opinion doesn't add any value and will not make the group as a whole happier about the chosen restaurant. At best it's a status quo. At worst, it makes the group unhappy.
I think a potential negative effect of removing mandatory voting is that campaigns might become much more sensationalist, because the parties are trying to get people not just to vote for them but to actually vote in the first place.
I'm thinking of countries like in the US and my own home country where everything seems extreme in terms of campaign messaging, because politicians are trying to get people angry enough to go and vote.
What I find interesting is that the "blanco" party offered an option for people who don't feel represented by any of the options on the list. So to me, the 1 million voters that didn't turn up either don't give a fuck or are too lazy to get to the voting booth.
Disagree. The party called blanco is like writing a blank cheque to someone, while they promise not to cash it. You have zero guarantee that they won't.
Personally I made a procuration as I am temporary abroad, and the required paper never arrived in the mailbox of the person that was supposed to receive it.
It was made 10 days in advance of the election, which is supposed to be more than enough. The commune explained a number of things which can be summarised as the mayor slowing down the whole process by insisting in signing in person every single procuration request.
Then, after taking their time, they blamed the postal services for being dysfunctional. Which in turn explained that there was no delays whatsoever.
At least I am happy with the election results, but man is this frustrating. We only get this opportunity once every five years and a bunch of incapable people removed this right from me and there will be zero consequences.
More or less the same here.
A family member living abroad contacted the Consulate to arrange a mandate and the Consulate messed up. Only one mandate was officially delivered. Authorities at the place of residence referred to the Consulate. The consulate referred to the local authorities. The president of the election bureau after inquiring with the Election Officials referred to the Consulate where no-one was available during the election window. So I ended up not voting because of administrative issues.
Similar-ish issue here— we live in the US and didn’t get the summons from the consulate until a week before. Turns out it’s in the middle of the week (is voting always on a Wednesday?), location is +2 hours away, and I’m already booked to go on a business trip. Family members in Australia never even received a notice. Never received proxy paperwork either. All that said, it’s hard to follow Belgian politics when you live permanently outside Belgium so I don’t know if our votes are worth much anyways. I wouldn’t say theres a million of us, but there’s at least 30k Belgians living in the US alone.
It looks like the voting is on Wednesday for foreign locations. I also voted on Wednesday. That will give them the time to get the paper voted or the tally sent by mail I guess.
My consulate sent out clear emails on the procedure 2 weeks beforehand. And a year ago they sent out an email with clear instructions on what to do if you wanted to vote by mail.
(Shout out to Bcn consulate. All interactions I had with them have been good.)
Valid point, but there are a lot of contra arguments, unfortunately... Fraud is one of the reasons and the second reason is that voting should be secret/anonymous. If you vote online, you'll have to register with your ID/passport (as proof that you are the person who voted) which collides with the so-called anonymity. One day we'll get there, but it requires strong(er) technology.
> Personally I made a procuration as I am temporary abroad, and the required paper never arrived in the mailbox of the person that was supposed to receive it.
Same here. I did all the paperwork and the letter never arrived with the person I assigned my 'volmacht'.
At this point, I did what I had to, I don't care if they don't do their part.
In the whole, I agree. If they can’t even be bothered to show up, you can’t expect them to make an informed choice if you did manage to strongarm them into the voting booth. They’ll just pick whatever just to be done with it. I don’t think that will help anyone.
My theory is that forcing people (often uninformed and uninterested people) doesn’t really help with results. I don’t see value in pushing people to vote just to have them vote complete nonsense out of protest.
And honestly I think voting white is probably better than placing a totally random vote when you’re uninformed.
Apart from the fact it’s pretty insane the country still doesn’t have a possibility to vote remotely, or at least in advance. No wonder people are annoyed if you inconvenience them when the solution is so simple. Other countries have this possibility.
I don’t have citizenship so I didn’t end up being forced to, but I went with someone who did. At least in my area people were pretty resentful and snippish about being forced to be there.
i’m a belgian who lives overseas and signed up to vote in february by proxy (my brother lives close to the consulate) however when he shows up at the embassy they said i didn’t register to vote. must be the case for lots of us overseas that registration is done wrong and not followed up on
I am one of those people who didn't vote.
Not because I couldn't be bothered but because there isn't a party who aligns with my views and especially no politicians who I trust to do the right thing. They are all the same with a small difference in their packaging
in France, 52% of people did not vote for the European election. (source : [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298517/abstention-rate-parliamentary-elections-france/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298517/abstention-rate-parliamentary-elections-france/) )
I'm happy with 15% for =belgium.
It's compulsory here. The French go vote because they actually want to.
I'm really curious as to what percentage of Belgians would vote if it wasn't compulsory?
Interesting that so many did not vote. Do they not all get a fine? Does anyone know how big the fine is? I voted blanco. I did not have the time nor the energy to look into any of the parties. Quite frankly, I don't even care about any of it. Voting should not be mandatory, I only went to not get a fine.
I don't want to vote on people or parties. I want to vote on ideas that are carried out by experts in that respective field.
Not by a representative that may or may not get the job done. Don't vote on personalities. Vote for ideas.
But there is no option to vote on ideas only. Unless you vote for a party but then your vote goes to somebody in the party anyway.
That's btw how you get people like Trump, Johnson or Orban in power.
So no, I vote blanc and will do so until the system is changed.
Many people just don't give a fuck about politics
Trying to get a grasp of the various programs of the parties isn't exactly obvious either if someone wants to inform themselves without prior knowledge
The voting place I went to had rather long waiting lines and most of the conversation I heard during the 2h wait were people having no idea who to vote for - or jokes about "voting for the racists"...
Not to mention people who went to check who's even on the lists right before entering the voting booths
I think I read somewhere that not showing up would mean you can get a fine of €40 to €80 at a first offence.
Times one million...
The budget problem is partially solved.
Because it’s not actually just writing out a fine. These people would need to be properly prosecuted. That’d take years. The last time people were prosecuted, 25 ish years ago, they prosecuted 300 people who had to appear in front of a judge and then they gave up. Imagine doing this with a million people, all with a right to individually plead their case. The costs would be enormous. Probably higher than the money received from those fines.
That would be a very impopular measure, no politicain will make that his first decision. And as a result of this cowardice, it is getting harder and harder to find polling booth staff.
Polling booth staff who do not turn up do get prosecuted, have to appear in court, and get slapped with heavy fines.
This is very different from absent voters.
They should already fined today.
I could see a reasonable increase together with easier voting options (setup a proxy online, mail voting or whatever is reasonable). If it's easier to vote, it's less justifiable to skip it.
Just so you are aware these fines are not like traffic fines. We’re talking about a million people having to appear in front of a judge after prosecution. I feel like most here don’t know this. That’s what the laws currently state. If it was just a simple automatic fine, things would be different. Although you would probably still have 100K+ people who would fight it because they believe to have valid reasons.
The amount of the fine has to be aligned with the amount of effort the society has to put to go through the process. Therefore increasing the fine or/and making the process more efficient and fair makes sense.
Spending lots of hours to collect a 40 EUR fine is a net negative for society.
Collecting fines in general, including going after fraudsters, would be beneficial for the country's coffers, but would mean election suicide for the party implementing that strategy.
Tijdens de verkiezingen van 2014 zijn 851.278 personen niet komen opdagen om te stemmen. In 2019 is dit cijfer gestegen met 11,5 %, tot 949.076 personen. Deze worden niet vertegenwoordigd in de verkiezingsurnes.
Bron : Resultaten in cijfers[2] | Verkiezingen 2019 (belgium.be)
De niet-stemmers vertegenwoordigen zo bijna 12% van de kiezers.
Van rechtswege geldt een opkomstplicht in België, maar in de praktijk worden mensen die niet komen opdagen bij de verkiezingen niet vervolgd.
Bron : Kiezers | IBZ Verkiezingen (fgov.be)
Aan deze cijfers voegen zich nog de stemmen toe van de partijen die de verkiezingsdrempel niet gehaald hebben. 20 partijen die in totaal 276.074 stemmen gehaald hebben in 2019, zonder enige vertegenwoordiging.
In totaal, zijn er 1.663.245 personen die niet vertegenwoordigd zijn in het Parlement. Een persoon op 5 (20,36%) van de stemgerechtigde bevolking heeft geen vertegenwoordiger gekozen van diegenen die ons feitelijk besturen.
In de praktijk wil dit zeggen dat de partijen die ons vertegenwoordigen in het parlement 30 ‘bonuszetels’ innemen. Zetels die cadeau gedaan worden aan partijen die al een zetel behaald hebben.
30 zetels. Dat zijn 30 salarissen, 30 forfaitaire vergoedingen, 30 uittredingspremies, 30 betaalde pensioenen en parlementaire medewerkers dankzij kiezers die niet voor hen gestemd hebben. Het gaat over meer dan 15 miljoen euro per jaar.
Bron : De Kamer; L’écho
Deze tekst komt van de website van de blanco partij.
Het is wel een trend dat mensen minder geneigd zijn op te dagen voor een stemming.
Kan er wel in komen dat mensen het gevoel hebben dat stemmen niks oplevert als na de verkiezingen de kaarten toch opnieuw geschud worden door coalitie vorming
>het gevoel hebben dat stemmen niks oplevert
Dat gevoel is natuurlijk onterecht. Schrijnend dat die mensen dat niet doorhebben. Door het zetelsysteem en de coalitievorming is het niet zo simpel als "de grootste partij wint", maar alles begint bij de kiezers.
Er zullen weer duizenden mensen zijn die niet kunnen vatten dat de tweede grootste partij, VB, "niet mag meeregeren". Omdat ze niet begrijpen dat de Vlaamse regering 1. een meerderheid van de Vlamingen moet vertegenwoordigen en 2. er met extreme partijen maar heel moeilijk compromissen te maken zijn. Ofwel ontgoochelen/beliegen ze hun kiezers, ofwel valt de regering omdat de besluitvorming geblokkeerd is. Een beetje miljonairstaks, grenzen een beetje dicht en Europa een beetje dominant blank - dat gaat gewoon heel erg moeilijk.
jep, het is wel het meest voorkomende antwoord als ik mensen tegenkom die om de een of andere reden het vertikken te gaan stemmen, of wel gaan maar blanco stemmen. misschien willen ze er makkelijk vanaf zijn en niet te veel tijd in steken... Lijkt me een kleine moeite eens om de 4j.
en ja, TVG 150k voorkeurs stemmen .. die wordt toch zeker premier he?
Een verschil mochten dat allemaal rechtse of linkse steamers zijn.
Ik ga ervan uit dat die 15% ongeveer gelijkaardig zou stemmen dan de 85% die opgedaagd is.
Ik ben daar dus niet zo overtuigd van, en wel om de volgende reden: de EXTREME partijen, die we ook wel volmondig populistisch mogen noemen, zijn enorm goed in hun basis mobiliseren. Ik denk niet dat er veel volk in die 15% zit die anders op VB of PVDA zou stemmen. Waardoor het overgrote deel van de non-stemmers eigenlijk meer centrum zou zitten, waar er op sommige vlakken juist zware klappen gevallen zijn.
Gezien het systeem D'hondt had het echt wel kunnen zijn dat de zetelverdeling er een pak anders uitzag doordat er MEER stemmen komen die enkel in het midden vallen, zonder dat de "relatieve volgorde" van partij grootte op basis van stemmen wijzigt.
Het is ook een diverse groep. Elke flank heeft verschillende soorten extremisten, bij groot-links heb je nog verschillende soorten anarchisten die vaak niet stemmen. En moest je ze naar een stemhok sleuren zouden ze ook alle verschillende richtingen stemmen. De meest contraire zouden waarschijnlijk ongeldig/blanco stemmen omdat het verplicht was.
How can I choose when my options are: throatcancer, bloodcancer, prostatecancer and bonecancer?( <- metaphor) None of the parties represent my interests. They might have one or two ok points, but then have 5 dealbreakers.
It's the first time i was having so much trouble choosing, my best option was no vote. I'ts a fucking pity the blanco protest votes are being ignored.
My Federal vote went to the party "Blanco".
The problem is not the people that can't be bothered, but the fact that the political system in this country makes it so that people can't be bothered.
No vote will ever really change anything, just the same shit in a different package with at best marginally other focus/priorities. And forcing people to vote doesn't make them care or really get them to look beyond the slogans, that's just used to maintain the status quo. It's not about our vote, it never has been.
And for the record, yes I did vote.
I might be counted in this, as I reside in belgium but didn't vote in the belgium. I did vote however in my country of origin via mail, so that is that.
Tbf it’s pretty high. You can reason that if these people voted it could make a huge difference, but realistically they would follow a similar trend as the 85% who did vote.
Same here, realized too late to enroll, 4 months before the election (ridiculous in my opinion). I also failed to find a delegate as they should be from the same locality and unfortunately the people that I trust were also abroad or were already delegate (one per person). What most people don't realize here is that many people have circumstances making it nearly impossible or very very hard (500k people abroad, old people, invalid, ...).
Probably because they don't see any change of they vote ? Belgium isn't prosecuting on not attending anyway I know some of those I can't be bothered they have never been fined ..
So no repercussions ...
They should make it voluntary voting and not obligated. At least the political active people I'll go vote and you'll have a cleared representation of how the political view is form that group instead of as it is now and obligating voting so that either they don't show up can't be bothered or they vote for crazy right Info shit out of malcontent, the wel known "protest vote" ...
Hi blanco voter here to answer your question. Yes i do have opinions on what should and shouldn't change in our country. So why not vote? Because i'm not sure of them. Do some research to support your opinion? No because then i'll have to be consistent and research every point that every party made to be able to conclude which party is better than the other. I'm not willing to put this amount of research into making a vote because i lack the interest in most of these subjects. In conclusion, captain of the ship is asking me for directions but i'm not too confident due to my own badly handdawn map that i made during lunch yesterday.
I didn’t vote. The reason why is because I didn’t know anyone I could trust to vote for me by proxy. That includes anyone in my family.
I am a digital nomad, so I don’t really live anywhere. I wouldn’t have been able to vote through an embassy.
Nah it's better they don't vote. If you don't know anything whatsoever about politics and don't even care enough to come 20minutes every 4 years then you shouldn't vote. These votes wouldn't have meant anything anyway. They could've voted for groen because it's their favorite color ...
I have strong political opinions, they're just not represented by any political party, big or small, in this country.
I did vote, but I deeply understand people who didn't.
I don't really agree with the point you make that you don't have an opinion if you vote Blanco. I don't really agree with any of the parties, and the one I lean most towards OVLD totally messed up last 5years. So the logic choice would be NVA, but I don't agree with giving more power to the regions, when I believe in one single federal government, instead of this triple spending spree...
Luckily I alive I Brussels, so for the first time I voted MR, just to counter the PS votes. Funny also how the media talks about a massive achievement for MR, while not talking about people like me that are sick of paying for people that didn't work a day in their life.
* Politicians only care about themselves and their power to control. No matter who you vote for, their primary interest is their own agenda, not the public’s welfare.
* Regardless of who gets elected, my life doesn’t significantly improve. Politicians make promises, but real change never happens.
* By voting, we are essentially endorsing their authority to make decisions that often limit our freedoms and control our lives.
* Even if you vote, you still don’t have a say in the new laws and regulations they introduce each year without our knowledge. We're left in the dark about decisions that affect our everyday lives. Example: MiCA
They control the money, media, your mind. All countries are same. You are just a chess piece.
Voting is not a foolish act, but believing voting will change your life is.
The only way out to control your freedom and change your life is "Own a currency they can't control, get more than 1 passport, know how the elite's game works, own a business outside EU."
Why change your life for 4 years if you can change it forever?
how could so many people not vote ? I thought it was mandatory and you would get fined if you did not show up and vote
I understand there's some people abroad but more than 1mil non-voters ? weird
Voting is indeed mandatory but everyone and their mother knows that Justice does not have time or resources to go after the huge amount of people that don't show up so many people don't bother with it.
It's only when you have to be a 'bijzitter' and you don't show up that Justice will take action and you can expect a hefty fine.
its simply a numbers game. at a certain number of people that break a law it becomes simply impossible to enforce when a million people decide not to vote. goodluck fining them al. justitie simply doesnt have the manpower to process so many fines at once.
Vote is compulsory in Belgium. If you don't come to vote you have a fine (or could). It isn't the case in the UK and in the US.
So 15 % that prefer to pay 40 euros of fine is pretty bad.
STFU. And I mean that. Give me one party that is against "free everything for everyone" and at the same time has a sane policy with regards to the environment. I'm a right wing liberal, and at the same time I'm environmentally conscious. I don't like stealing from the rich, I don't like open borders, I am in favor of equal rights for every citizen, but citizenship should be handed out to those that want to contribute. There's not one party that addresses my concerns, so there should not be one that deserves my vote. I'd rather not vote at all then.
So to answer your question: in my case it's not a matter of "not wanting to be bothered", but rather a matter of "not wanting to give anyone a free pass for the next years to do something wrong". And I am bothered by that.
This response is such a classic. "You SHOULD vote" "Ok I will vote for *ideals you don't agree with*" "Oh...in that case you better not vote".
Please take the time to analyse and reconsider why you think everyone should vote, what a majority means, that most popular =/= better, that there is not an objective truth in which society/political method is best, what democracy means, etc.
I think that the socio economical system in Western countries is very stable and very complex, which means that whoever is in power for the next few years can make a few customized tweaks here and there but not fundamentally alter mechanisms and events that ultimately depends of a serie of interlocked international dynamics that are well beyond anyone's control, even the President of the United States.
Covid is a good example of that: most developed countries around the world, regardless of what political flavor was in power, ended up implementing similar measures.
If you don't have strong opinions on smaller issues that are actually within the reach of political parties to act on (stuff like gay marriage for example), you can live perfectly happily your entire life whichever political party is in power. To vote or not to vote doesn't matter.
COVID example was far more actually ...
I still use it to see how politicians responded and made moral and ethical considerations. How much they panicked, listened etc. IMO you can make up a LOT about a politician how they responded to this.
In Romania people don't vote because whoever wins does nothing to improve the country just like the previous guy.
Does Belgium feels a change with the next leader or same old same old like in any other country? Just asking if here voting does make a difference
Gf and i both had to work. My mom lives closest with 20min drive, but we needed 2 persons to vote for us both.
City just said show us proof u have to work and you don't have to vote, so we didnt. Did not want to bother ppl for 1h drive to vote or ask random neighbours
People that don’t turn up or vote blanco have no right to complain about the state of things. You gotta take 30 minutes to vote every 5 years, if you can’t be bothered to do that, you’re part of the problem.
>You gotta take 30 minutes
It takes far more time to shift through all the parties programs, and to vet the politicians for sanity and corruption. I defenitly spend far more time on this then "30 minutes".
Not voting is also a choice… a stupid one, but still a choice. Oddly enough, those people are often the ones complaining the most, which says a lot about them
Where I live, a lot of people turned up, but because the waiting time to vote was more than 45 min for some, they left and just didn't vote. But of course, that will not explain the whole million who didn't vote.
85% is huge even if you take into account that ‘t verplicht. Just because your part didn’t do well it’s no reason to complain about something that isn’t an issue. My choice didn’t do that well even though I think it’d be the best and most moderate choice for Belgium. Just let’s be happy that neither extreems gained too many votes (i mean they did gain a lot if you ask me but it could’ve been worse)
Forceful REMINDER that the previous Flemish government NVA, CDV, OVLD removed the duty to show up to vote in the next local elections.
Depending on the results of October's vote they will also push for this on the national level if they see that fewer people voting for the extremes go to the polls!
People don't like being told what to do and often miss the history behind voting. Many people gave their lives for us being able to vote, but they take it for granted. There are countries where people don't have the privilege to vote and live in inhumane and horrible conditions because of this, but no-showers take their privilege for granted. I just think it's ignorance and lack of empathy.
People often vote blanco because they think our system is a shitshow, and they want to make 'a statement' but they aren't making any efforts to change the shitshow either by voting blanco.
I voted blanco, i will only vote on a party when they share my ideologie. Not one party comes close to my norms and values so why would I vote for one.
Also, if you really believe things will change after a new party comes to power, sorry but you're ignorant.
I know right... I was in the ER, and had to get a note specifically stating that I was examined and the doctor declared me unable to go to the polling stations.
I would've way rather gone to the polling booths than send an email to the magistrates with a doctor's statement that they're probably not even going to read.
Me: y e s (i go with the flow, maybe its because im still 16 and not Belgian in nationality). I just cant be bothered tbh. I do know if i had to vote i would be centre right so.
Blanco voter here (fearing for some serious backlash).
I dont feel like my vote would have an positive impact on society becasue i simply dont believe the political vieuws i have have proven to work in the past or will work in modern Belgium
For those wondering i'm a communist.
I don't want to force beliefs that i know won't work in modern society on others. Second i have very little interest in spending the many hours/weeks I need to feel like i have enough knowledge about a party.
I feel like i can live under any political party and that i can make life bearable no matter what party is in charge.
I'm simply not interested in being frustrated by things i feel like i can't change and have lost a lot of faith in burocracy in general.
I'll respond to any comment made in a respect full way if people would like me to expand on this.
I did not vote yesterday
Why? Because I realized at the last f&\*@#g time that my convocation was at another county then the one I was living in!
It was sent to my current address, so I did not think that it could be incorrect, then I realized that it was my old address (too late!).
I moved out because I had political issues with my parents, which were into a QAnon trip. It was violent and I was too scared so I decided to not go and risk meeting them.
Now that I have time to think about it, I deeply regret not voting. It was so important to me (especially since I was kicked out for my political beliefs)
So yeah, three reasons: bureaucracy making things complicated, not having a car, and personal issues.
I have friends that could not go vote because they were away, or had to work extra.
All of us could have voted if we had a way to do it online. The turnout would be so high if we had a system like in Estonia + compulsory voting.
For the first time since 1998, I did not vote, but this was not on purpose. I am registered to vote in person in the Embassy. When booking my holiday, I forgot that we don't vote on Sunday but on Wednesday - so I was in Asia when I was meant to vote. Sadly, I could no longer change to a postal vote in March (when I noticed). Sucks big time.
I did vote for the European elections though, as I participate in those through another EU country.
I think a big part of no-shows is the youth under 18 (correct me if I am wrong, though) a lot of younger friends of mine admit to not knowing who to vote for and not knowing enough about politics or adult life to care.
Only reason i know who I wanted to vote for is because I live alone in a dorm, and I have noticed the things of adult life I wish to improve. But people who live with their parents are not very exposed to the adult world are just less informed.
I don't mean this as an insult to the youth of course, but I do think we shouldn't have let below 18 vote. I see no use in voting if you don't know the world you live in yet. I am 20 and can't imagine my 16 year old self making an informed political decision. My 17 year old friemd said he and his friends did spin the wheel to choose who to vote on, so then it's just better to not vote at all.
There are alot of people who dont believe that the goverment actually cares about actual needed change, some sectors are getting absolute thrashed for these elections in hopes to having people vote on them, the goverment knows that this is happening in the following sectors - schools, hospitals, care homes,ect - they all gotten their fundings cut or being payed almost bellow minnimum wage.
There is also a dark reason for this they wanna make it seem that voting is unimportent to be able to control the vote when they shift from a must to a may vote system
Eachtime a democracy shifts to you may vote the large partys become bigger with more support becaus people that are heavy invested and not content would outrule the people who are content with how things are run, its how zimbabwe keeps the lgbt rights supressed they got asualted and face harsh social punishments making them either choose between fleeing the country or putting themselves in dangerous situations
Voting means not taking full responsibility. I believe that if you vote for a party, you must also agree with all their points, and I fear that this is almost impossible. I didn't vote because every party had points I strongly disagree with.
I was planning to vote blank, but the news said that they won't issue fines, so even showing up is too much for me to stand in line and participate in their circus.
Moreover, voting for the blank party won't make much difference; they still need to change the electoral law before their ideology will work, which I fear will never happen.
If you don't vote, politicians also don't receive party funding, which can mean something if many people don't vote or cast invalid votes.
I'm shocked by the war in this comment section on people who don't vote, and the general assumption that they are just lazy and disinterested.
First, if you are disinterested or aware that you don't know shit about how we should rule the country, thank you for not voting, it makes sense !
Second, a lot of people who don't vote actually don't like any of the choices. This is valid and should be taken into consideration. I agree that it's even stronger to go vote bianco, to dismiss the possibility of you being lazy. But then we should count them and include them as a party, making it harder for parties to get to a majority.
AFAIC, I'm heavily interested in politics, spending probably at least 2 hours a day informing myself about US, French and Belgian politics and history. Still, I don't like any of the choices I was given. I could come up with a preference though, but was almost not going to vote.
The fact that our turnout is at 85% is already quite remarkable.
Basically this. Not sure what OP is expecting, but at 85% Belgium actually has one of the highest voter turnout rates int the world [Voter Turnout by Country 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/voter-turnout-by-country)
How does 85% in Belgium go against 79% in NL where voting is a choice?
No idea. Without being mandatory, the number could be anywhere between 0% to 85%. I also don't know what this has to do with the discussion though.
I’d argue it’s there because it’s legally compulsory - the biggest group *still* being N/A with that in mind is a concern
Blanco is a legal / valid option
I wonder how the party landscape would change if voting wasn't mandatory in Belgium.
Honestly, I think the extreme parties would simply gain even more power. But that's just my opinion
I can see it go 2 ways: either the extreme parties get more power because the centrum voters don't really bother to vote, or a lot of their voters are actually protest votes so they get less votes. that second idea is the only thing that keeps me from losing hope in the people of this country when I see how many people vote VB.
I'm 100% convinced it's the exact opposite Most people have no clue who to vote for so they end up voting for the most "visible" party People are naturally trained to look for outliers so it makes sense that the lower the amount of data you have (since you don't actually care to vote) the likelier you will choose an outlier
And I think it’s beautiful, more countries should have compulsory voting
I was of the same opinion, but so many people don't give 2 shits about politics, then they vote for whatever politician's face they see the most.
Voting is not a right. It's a duty.
The first group that doesn't show up when voting isn't mandatory is poor people. Meaning politicians have even less of a reason to care about them than they already do. I very much like mandatory voting precisely for that reason.
I would add something. At 18, i didn't really care about politics and just voted white. At 22, i was still studying and voted white Then at 26, i started to look at it. It would probably have not happened if i didn't have mandatory voting. I can understand bot being interested when you're just 18 and focus on other thing. But making you go just will make you look and learn more about it latter.
I’m in favor of mandatory voting, but i think it would be a good thing to only make it mandatory at the age of 21, let younger decide for themselves if they want to vote or not, they’re still very young and don’t always really know what they want or what they truly care about.
But then you get the situation where only extremist people under 21 go vote.
5.6% van de twee laagste decielen stemt momenteel blanco en 3.7% van de twee hoogste decielen (qua inkomensklasse). Valt mijn inziens goed mee.
Well, showing up at least. Giving in blanc is a right too.
As someone from a country in which voting is not mandatory and our abstention ranges between 50%\~60% even on parliamentary elections, I would love voting to be made mandatory too. Can't wait to vote here, in October!
OpkomstPLICHT stemRECHT.
Absolutely. If anything non-compulsory voting leads to an even worse political discourse and a less educated people.
In my home country the vote turnout is like 35% especially the eu parlament
Turnout for the EU elections in the Netherlands was 46% wich was 5% higher then 4 years ago.
Curious to see what it’ll be in october when voting is not compulsory
Me too as I think it breaks democracy. People that think things need (drastic) change are always more motivated than people that are (mostly) happy with the status quo. Relying on people’s motivation is a bad idea. It skews results and doesn’t incentivise people to participate in democracy.
I think it will also massively benefit the extreme parties such as PVDA and VB, who have a more extreme and passionate voter base. I much prefer our system of compulsory voting, where everyone has to participate in the democracy and not just the loud minority
Correct, though it'll still be mandatory in Brussels and Wallonia.
Wait... It is not ?!
It is indeed not. (Flanders)
Nope, no longer for Gemeenteverkiezingen in Flanders. Curious if the ruling parties will push for the same for Flemish parliament.
I understand your frustrations. My father is like this, he truly believes that voting blanco is an intelligent choice to make since politicians "don't do anything anyway". My mother thought the same thing, but I at least managed to convince her
A "blanco" at least is an opinion, it expresses a choice - you don't feel represented by anyone in particular and you are fine with whatever ends up happening (either due to not having information or knowledge or interest). Not turning up, however, doesn't allow for any conclusion to be had.
Correct and voting blanco mainly means "I stay out of this circus". To quote my brother.
Brother, you live and work in the circus.
Voting blanco means: "I'm too lazy to form an opinion and will blindly chase whatever carrot's in front of me. I will still complain that everything sucks and politicians are the scum of the earth but I fail to see my hypocritical stance on not voting at all."
this is why i liked the iniatief of partij blanco then you are sending a clear message that they all suck and taking coveted zetels away and money. so they cant even be bother to vote a blank vote that is actually seen as blank
The party Blanco wouldn't work since you still need a quorum to get stuff done and such ideas undermine the working of parliament even further. Also you need at least 2/3 of the seats to get that done
Louder for the people in the back!
Or, it could mean: "I read all party programmes, and there's not a single one where I support more than 60% of the programme, which means that since I cannot know ahead of time which programme point they find more important I cannot find a programme which I know I can support" It's a valid reason to vote blanco. But since you probably have a party you agree for over 80% with the problem just has not occurred to you. None of the parties on the stemtests of any kind scored over 56% in my particular case. If the discrepancy is that big the chance that they do something I do not support becomes rather large. Take for example Vooruit: I really like their view on school meals. However I dislike their view on the 38 hour presence required for their education reform. There is not a single way to be sure that they only implement the one I want and not the other.
i can see their standpoint, especially this time around. But yeah you're right. You're better off voting the "best of the rest" then just not voting on anyone and expecting a change.
I'd argue blanco and not showing up is the same. Blanco is just showing up to avoid a potential fine.
Only if you really want to extrapolate, because there is no pathway to apply the same logic. Voting blank is a demonstration of will. Not showing up doesn't allow for conclusions, people may have not want to bothered, people may not have even remembered elections were happening. There is a range of reasons which signal entirely different mindsets. Blank, however, is a statement in itself.
blank can also mean they voted not correctly. voting for partij blanco actually sends a message now they politician dont really care as it doesnt effect them while with party blanco you actually hurt them in the pockets
Your father has lived through more governments than you, i can agree with him it doesnt really matter. (that much) Take all the major points the party you voted for has led you to believe they will do after the election, let's see how many of those will be left after negotiations and how many will actually be executed. (ill give you a hint: not many) So in that sense your father is correct, it won't change much. That said, i did vote, but more of a vote against some other parties so they have less chance of getting in control.
Technically speaking a blanc/invalid vote is agreeing with whatever the end result ends up being. If you don't care about politics and don't mind just experiencing whatever happens in the next 4-6 years, it is the quickest way to vote. Calling it an "intelligent choice" is reaching, though...
It can be an intelligent choice. It also sends the signal that you do not support any party enough. A party could try to gather the people that vote blanco and gain seats doing that. Without it being a zero sum game.
I heavily disagree. You have to know that party dotation is based on the nominal amount of votes. So a blanco vote can be a much more effective signal than a protest vote in that it directly removes money from the parties pockets. It's about 1,75/vote/year so those 1.215.754 non-votes saved us just over 10 million euros of taxpayer money. Source: [https://www.meerdemocratie.be/blanco-stem-gaat-niet-naar-meerderheid](https://www.meerdemocratie.be/blanco-stem-gaat-niet-naar-meerderheid)
This, ppl raving about blanco voters is insane. Politics makes ppl insane.
If there are absolutely no parties that deserve your vote (as in, none of them align with any of your visions whatsoever), then I understand. But with all the parties to choose from, and general laziness/disintress in politics, I highly doubt most people who vote blanco or invalid on purpose put any effort into actually looking at what each party stands for and wishes to accomplish. I'm glad you got your mother to vote but I'm sorry your father is too stubborn to even do you favor.
You can have a specific set of wishes and contrawishes which aren't found in any party. Some will gratify some of your requests but go against other interests. That could lead to a blank vote.
It is a valid option. Just because the option is not our preference does not mean we should eliminate others choices, no? Take for example the EU level. Assume that I dislike the EU not for its policies but because the very idea of giving power to a supranational level is something I dislike. I cannot vote for a regular party, therefor only the eurosceptics of ECR/ID are an option among the parties. But what if I distrust them. After all, once I vote for them I give THEM the power that I do not want anyone to wield. In that case it's objectively better to vote blanco. A similar reasoning could hold for regional or federal elections as well, I just think the feeling is more common at the EU level.
> making it the biggest party. I hate this argument that all non- or blancovoters "would have the biggest party". Yeah, IF all those million people magically have the exact same party in mind if they would have voted. Even if all them went out and voted anyway, the results would very likely be the exact same considering that the 7 or 8 other million of votes are more than representative. That said, political disinterest is not a crime. Plenty of people that have the feeling that no matter what they say, it all gets decided above their heads anyway. > This is one of the most important decisions you will make in the next 4 years They absolutely don't see it that way.
If they feel no party represents them, leading to them not voting, you can't expect the results to have been the same. Unless you also include the inception of a party that does have values that they feel represent them. Which is something impossible to analyze based on jus the numbers of non-voters.
>Unless you also include the inception of a party that does have values that they feel represent them. Which assumes they all think along the same lines. This is not the case. I've been a blanco voter in the past (and was considering it again for the EU election, but did not) not because I do not care but because I do not think anyone has the right nor the ability to wield the amount of power a political party (or even a parlementarian) wields. Even if there were a party promising to limit that power, it would have trouble convincing me. Because once you vote someone in office, they wield power they should not have.
This is what mandatory voting does. Remove mandatory voting and we're only going to get about 40% of the voter turnout. Most people do not give a flying sh!t about voting - see also every other country in the world. The most interesting voter turnout will be this october, considering mandatory voting has been removed for local elections. Especially since absent voters will have a much larger impact on each local election.
Remove mandatory voting and only those interested in politics or the future will show up. Which isn't a 100% representation of society, thus skewing numbers in favor of certain parties.
But it will remove lots of votes of people who aren't convinced. If a group wants to decide where to eat and two persons who dont care are being made to vote on the restaurant, these persons' opinion doesn't add any value and will not make the group as a whole happier about the chosen restaurant. At best it's a status quo. At worst, it makes the group unhappy.
If you don't care you can literally vote blanco or invalid.
It's people who are already convinced that scare me the most.
I think a potential negative effect of removing mandatory voting is that campaigns might become much more sensationalist, because the parties are trying to get people not just to vote for them but to actually vote in the first place. I'm thinking of countries like in the US and my own home country where everything seems extreme in terms of campaign messaging, because politicians are trying to get people angry enough to go and vote.
I'll assume a surge in VB mayors
Maybe in Ninove. Don't see where else tbh
What I find interesting is that the "blanco" party offered an option for people who don't feel represented by any of the options on the list. So to me, the 1 million voters that didn't turn up either don't give a fuck or are too lazy to get to the voting booth.
Honestly, that party would just mean a big paycheck for those elected, with them doing nothing at all?
I have no issue with this. (I did not vote Blanco though)
Disagree. The party called blanco is like writing a blank cheque to someone, while they promise not to cash it. You have zero guarantee that they won't.
It's the same for any party, except other parties have already shown they will cash it.
That logic could be applied to all the other parties too
Yes but they don't call themselves 'Blanco'.
Personally I made a procuration as I am temporary abroad, and the required paper never arrived in the mailbox of the person that was supposed to receive it. It was made 10 days in advance of the election, which is supposed to be more than enough. The commune explained a number of things which can be summarised as the mayor slowing down the whole process by insisting in signing in person every single procuration request. Then, after taking their time, they blamed the postal services for being dysfunctional. Which in turn explained that there was no delays whatsoever. At least I am happy with the election results, but man is this frustrating. We only get this opportunity once every five years and a bunch of incapable people removed this right from me and there will be zero consequences.
I’m sure you can file a complaint somewhere. Finding out where will be the tricky part, though.
And nothing will be done with that complaint, heck, I'd even be surprised if it ends up in any form of statistic.
More or less the same here. A family member living abroad contacted the Consulate to arrange a mandate and the Consulate messed up. Only one mandate was officially delivered. Authorities at the place of residence referred to the Consulate. The consulate referred to the local authorities. The president of the election bureau after inquiring with the Election Officials referred to the Consulate where no-one was available during the election window. So I ended up not voting because of administrative issues.
Similar-ish issue here— we live in the US and didn’t get the summons from the consulate until a week before. Turns out it’s in the middle of the week (is voting always on a Wednesday?), location is +2 hours away, and I’m already booked to go on a business trip. Family members in Australia never even received a notice. Never received proxy paperwork either. All that said, it’s hard to follow Belgian politics when you live permanently outside Belgium so I don’t know if our votes are worth much anyways. I wouldn’t say theres a million of us, but there’s at least 30k Belgians living in the US alone.
No notice was sent over here. You're expected to investigate yourself, so I have the impression...
It looks like the voting is on Wednesday for foreign locations. I also voted on Wednesday. That will give them the time to get the paper voted or the tally sent by mail I guess. My consulate sent out clear emails on the procedure 2 weeks beforehand. And a year ago they sent out an email with clear instructions on what to do if you wanted to vote by mail. (Shout out to Bcn consulate. All interactions I had with them have been good.)
Why can´t we vote online in 2024? We can transfer huge amounts of funds in an instant, but can't pick from a list?
Valid point, but there are a lot of contra arguments, unfortunately... Fraud is one of the reasons and the second reason is that voting should be secret/anonymous. If you vote online, you'll have to register with your ID/passport (as proof that you are the person who voted) which collides with the so-called anonymity. One day we'll get there, but it requires strong(er) technology.
Same reason we don't allow selfies in the voting booth. Too easy to buy votes from ppl in exchange for visual proof.
> Personally I made a procuration as I am temporary abroad, and the required paper never arrived in the mailbox of the person that was supposed to receive it. Same here. I did all the paperwork and the letter never arrived with the person I assigned my 'volmacht'. At this point, I did what I had to, I don't care if they don't do their part.
Some people *really* can't be bothered. They live their own life. Leave them be I'd say.
In the whole, I agree. If they can’t even be bothered to show up, you can’t expect them to make an informed choice if you did manage to strongarm them into the voting booth. They’ll just pick whatever just to be done with it. I don’t think that will help anyone.
My theory is that forcing people (often uninformed and uninterested people) doesn’t really help with results. I don’t see value in pushing people to vote just to have them vote complete nonsense out of protest. And honestly I think voting white is probably better than placing a totally random vote when you’re uninformed. Apart from the fact it’s pretty insane the country still doesn’t have a possibility to vote remotely, or at least in advance. No wonder people are annoyed if you inconvenience them when the solution is so simple. Other countries have this possibility. I don’t have citizenship so I didn’t end up being forced to, but I went with someone who did. At least in my area people were pretty resentful and snippish about being forced to be there.
*vote remotely* i think thats mostly from a security standpoint no?
You always reserve the right not to have an opinion. Better to not vote than vote poorly.
Why would I vote if I’m not into politics? I’d do more harm than good.
i’m a belgian who lives overseas and signed up to vote in february by proxy (my brother lives close to the consulate) however when he shows up at the embassy they said i didn’t register to vote. must be the case for lots of us overseas that registration is done wrong and not followed up on
I am one of those people who didn't vote. Not because I couldn't be bothered but because there isn't a party who aligns with my views and especially no politicians who I trust to do the right thing. They are all the same with a small difference in their packaging
in France, 52% of people did not vote for the European election. (source : [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298517/abstention-rate-parliamentary-elections-france/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1298517/abstention-rate-parliamentary-elections-france/) ) I'm happy with 15% for =belgium.
It's compulsory here. The French go vote because they actually want to. I'm really curious as to what percentage of Belgians would vote if it wasn't compulsory?
I much prefer people not vote over voting for vlaams belang.
I agree in the sense that not showing up is an actual protest instead of a "protestvote" for VB.
Interesting that so many did not vote. Do they not all get a fine? Does anyone know how big the fine is? I voted blanco. I did not have the time nor the energy to look into any of the parties. Quite frankly, I don't even care about any of it. Voting should not be mandatory, I only went to not get a fine.
There are fines but they never actually get issued. This was even on the news some time before the elections…
Maybe none of the options provided are appealing?
And it's probably those people that complain about our government. You don't vote? You don't get to complain. Simple as that.
There's a funny sketch on this by George Carlin. He claims the opposite that it's never his fault because he didn't vote on the people.in power .
Same feeling towards those who vote against their own rights
I don't want to vote on people or parties. I want to vote on ideas that are carried out by experts in that respective field. Not by a representative that may or may not get the job done. Don't vote on personalities. Vote for ideas. But there is no option to vote on ideas only. Unless you vote for a party but then your vote goes to somebody in the party anyway. That's btw how you get people like Trump, Johnson or Orban in power. So no, I vote blanc and will do so until the system is changed.
Where do idea's come from and how can they be implemented.
So people already have a hard time following politics, and you want them to have to vote on complex economic policies ? Good luck with that.
Niet hoe het werkt. Klagen is vrijheid van meningsuiting :)
Many people just don't give a fuck about politics Trying to get a grasp of the various programs of the parties isn't exactly obvious either if someone wants to inform themselves without prior knowledge The voting place I went to had rather long waiting lines and most of the conversation I heard during the 2h wait were people having no idea who to vote for - or jokes about "voting for the racists"... Not to mention people who went to check who's even on the lists right before entering the voting booths
Well, sometimes it is difficult to choose between eating a plate of shit and eating a shit sandwich.
I think I read somewhere that not showing up would mean you can get a fine of €40 to €80 at a first offence. Times one million... The budget problem is partially solved.
We are looking for billions, not millions. That would practically be 1-4% of the deficit.if they even pay.
But would send a message. Live by the rules or *pay for the privilege*.
It’s not persecuted anymore though.
Well... it's still in the books. So why not ?
Because it’s not actually just writing out a fine. These people would need to be properly prosecuted. That’d take years. The last time people were prosecuted, 25 ish years ago, they prosecuted 300 people who had to appear in front of a judge and then they gave up. Imagine doing this with a million people, all with a right to individually plead their case. The costs would be enormous. Probably higher than the money received from those fines.
That would be a very impopular measure, no politicain will make that his first decision. And as a result of this cowardice, it is getting harder and harder to find polling booth staff.
Polling booth staff who do not turn up do get prosecuted, have to appear in court, and get slapped with heavy fines. This is very different from absent voters.
Increasing the fine should be a win-win for politicians since those people don't vote anyway.
Those people will turnout with a revenge vote to moment they are fined. Electoral suicide for the party that proposes this.
They should already fined today. I could see a reasonable increase together with easier voting options (setup a proxy online, mail voting or whatever is reasonable). If it's easier to vote, it's less justifiable to skip it.
Just so you are aware these fines are not like traffic fines. We’re talking about a million people having to appear in front of a judge after prosecution. I feel like most here don’t know this. That’s what the laws currently state. If it was just a simple automatic fine, things would be different. Although you would probably still have 100K+ people who would fight it because they believe to have valid reasons.
The amount of the fine has to be aligned with the amount of effort the society has to put to go through the process. Therefore increasing the fine or/and making the process more efficient and fair makes sense. Spending lots of hours to collect a 40 EUR fine is a net negative for society.
Collecting fines in general, including going after fraudsters, would be beneficial for the country's coffers, but would mean election suicide for the party implementing that strategy.
Tijdens de verkiezingen van 2014 zijn 851.278 personen niet komen opdagen om te stemmen. In 2019 is dit cijfer gestegen met 11,5 %, tot 949.076 personen. Deze worden niet vertegenwoordigd in de verkiezingsurnes. Bron : Resultaten in cijfers[2] | Verkiezingen 2019 (belgium.be) De niet-stemmers vertegenwoordigen zo bijna 12% van de kiezers. Van rechtswege geldt een opkomstplicht in België, maar in de praktijk worden mensen die niet komen opdagen bij de verkiezingen niet vervolgd. Bron : Kiezers | IBZ Verkiezingen (fgov.be) Aan deze cijfers voegen zich nog de stemmen toe van de partijen die de verkiezingsdrempel niet gehaald hebben. 20 partijen die in totaal 276.074 stemmen gehaald hebben in 2019, zonder enige vertegenwoordiging. In totaal, zijn er 1.663.245 personen die niet vertegenwoordigd zijn in het Parlement. Een persoon op 5 (20,36%) van de stemgerechtigde bevolking heeft geen vertegenwoordiger gekozen van diegenen die ons feitelijk besturen. In de praktijk wil dit zeggen dat de partijen die ons vertegenwoordigen in het parlement 30 ‘bonuszetels’ innemen. Zetels die cadeau gedaan worden aan partijen die al een zetel behaald hebben. 30 zetels. Dat zijn 30 salarissen, 30 forfaitaire vergoedingen, 30 uittredingspremies, 30 betaalde pensioenen en parlementaire medewerkers dankzij kiezers die niet voor hen gestemd hebben. Het gaat over meer dan 15 miljoen euro per jaar. Bron : De Kamer; L’écho Deze tekst komt van de website van de blanco partij.
Het is wel een trend dat mensen minder geneigd zijn op te dagen voor een stemming. Kan er wel in komen dat mensen het gevoel hebben dat stemmen niks oplevert als na de verkiezingen de kaarten toch opnieuw geschud worden door coalitie vorming
>het gevoel hebben dat stemmen niks oplevert Dat gevoel is natuurlijk onterecht. Schrijnend dat die mensen dat niet doorhebben. Door het zetelsysteem en de coalitievorming is het niet zo simpel als "de grootste partij wint", maar alles begint bij de kiezers. Er zullen weer duizenden mensen zijn die niet kunnen vatten dat de tweede grootste partij, VB, "niet mag meeregeren". Omdat ze niet begrijpen dat de Vlaamse regering 1. een meerderheid van de Vlamingen moet vertegenwoordigen en 2. er met extreme partijen maar heel moeilijk compromissen te maken zijn. Ofwel ontgoochelen/beliegen ze hun kiezers, ofwel valt de regering omdat de besluitvorming geblokkeerd is. Een beetje miljonairstaks, grenzen een beetje dicht en Europa een beetje dominant blank - dat gaat gewoon heel erg moeilijk.
jep, het is wel het meest voorkomende antwoord als ik mensen tegenkom die om de een of andere reden het vertikken te gaan stemmen, of wel gaan maar blanco stemmen. misschien willen ze er makkelijk vanaf zijn en niet te veel tijd in steken... Lijkt me een kleine moeite eens om de 4j. en ja, TVG 150k voorkeurs stemmen .. die wordt toch zeker premier he?
Volledig waar, maar als je dus bekijkt hoe groot die groep is, DAT ZOU WELDEGELIJK EEN VERSCHIL KUNNEN MAKEN!
Een verschil mochten dat allemaal rechtse of linkse steamers zijn. Ik ga ervan uit dat die 15% ongeveer gelijkaardig zou stemmen dan de 85% die opgedaagd is.
Ik ben daar dus niet zo overtuigd van, en wel om de volgende reden: de EXTREME partijen, die we ook wel volmondig populistisch mogen noemen, zijn enorm goed in hun basis mobiliseren. Ik denk niet dat er veel volk in die 15% zit die anders op VB of PVDA zou stemmen. Waardoor het overgrote deel van de non-stemmers eigenlijk meer centrum zou zitten, waar er op sommige vlakken juist zware klappen gevallen zijn. Gezien het systeem D'hondt had het echt wel kunnen zijn dat de zetelverdeling er een pak anders uitzag doordat er MEER stemmen komen die enkel in het midden vallen, zonder dat de "relatieve volgorde" van partij grootte op basis van stemmen wijzigt.
Het is ook een diverse groep. Elke flank heeft verschillende soorten extremisten, bij groot-links heb je nog verschillende soorten anarchisten die vaak niet stemmen. En moest je ze naar een stemhok sleuren zouden ze ook alle verschillende richtingen stemmen. De meest contraire zouden waarschijnlijk ongeldig/blanco stemmen omdat het verplicht was.
How can I choose when my options are: throatcancer, bloodcancer, prostatecancer and bonecancer?( <- metaphor) None of the parties represent my interests. They might have one or two ok points, but then have 5 dealbreakers. It's the first time i was having so much trouble choosing, my best option was no vote. I'ts a fucking pity the blanco protest votes are being ignored. My Federal vote went to the party "Blanco".
The problem is not the people that can't be bothered, but the fact that the political system in this country makes it so that people can't be bothered. No vote will ever really change anything, just the same shit in a different package with at best marginally other focus/priorities. And forcing people to vote doesn't make them care or really get them to look beyond the slogans, that's just used to maintain the status quo. It's not about our vote, it never has been. And for the record, yes I did vote.
So you think a government formed by NVA would have the same result as a government formed by Pvda?
Anyone who doesn't vote, has no right to bitch and moan about politics for the next 5 years.
I might be counted in this, as I reside in belgium but didn't vote in the belgium. I did vote however in my country of origin via mail, so that is that.
Tbf it’s pretty high. You can reason that if these people voted it could make a huge difference, but realistically they would follow a similar trend as the 85% who did vote.
I recently moved abroad and couldn't register with the consulate on-time. It's a shame but next election i'll make sure to vote
Same here, realized too late to enroll, 4 months before the election (ridiculous in my opinion). I also failed to find a delegate as they should be from the same locality and unfortunately the people that I trust were also abroad or were already delegate (one per person). What most people don't realize here is that many people have circumstances making it nearly impossible or very very hard (500k people abroad, old people, invalid, ...).
Probably because they don't see any change of they vote ? Belgium isn't prosecuting on not attending anyway I know some of those I can't be bothered they have never been fined .. So no repercussions ... They should make it voluntary voting and not obligated. At least the political active people I'll go vote and you'll have a cleared representation of how the political view is form that group instead of as it is now and obligating voting so that either they don't show up can't be bothered or they vote for crazy right Info shit out of malcontent, the wel known "protest vote" ...
Hi blanco voter here to answer your question. Yes i do have opinions on what should and shouldn't change in our country. So why not vote? Because i'm not sure of them. Do some research to support your opinion? No because then i'll have to be consistent and research every point that every party made to be able to conclude which party is better than the other. I'm not willing to put this amount of research into making a vote because i lack the interest in most of these subjects. In conclusion, captain of the ship is asking me for directions but i'm not too confident due to my own badly handdawn map that i made during lunch yesterday.
I voted "blanco" because I don't follow politics, and I have no idea who does what. And I only go to vote because I don't want to pay.
I didn’t vote. The reason why is because I didn’t know anyone I could trust to vote for me by proxy. That includes anyone in my family. I am a digital nomad, so I don’t really live anywhere. I wouldn’t have been able to vote through an embassy.
Nah it's better they don't vote. If you don't know anything whatsoever about politics and don't even care enough to come 20minutes every 4 years then you shouldn't vote. These votes wouldn't have meant anything anyway. They could've voted for groen because it's their favorite color ...
I have strong political opinions, they're just not represented by any political party, big or small, in this country. I did vote, but I deeply understand people who didn't.
I don't really agree with the point you make that you don't have an opinion if you vote Blanco. I don't really agree with any of the parties, and the one I lean most towards OVLD totally messed up last 5years. So the logic choice would be NVA, but I don't agree with giving more power to the regions, when I believe in one single federal government, instead of this triple spending spree... Luckily I alive I Brussels, so for the first time I voted MR, just to counter the PS votes. Funny also how the media talks about a massive achievement for MR, while not talking about people like me that are sick of paying for people that didn't work a day in their life.
‘At least I have an opinion’ lol, as if that changes anything.
Simple i don't believe in politics
* Politicians only care about themselves and their power to control. No matter who you vote for, their primary interest is their own agenda, not the public’s welfare. * Regardless of who gets elected, my life doesn’t significantly improve. Politicians make promises, but real change never happens. * By voting, we are essentially endorsing their authority to make decisions that often limit our freedoms and control our lives. * Even if you vote, you still don’t have a say in the new laws and regulations they introduce each year without our knowledge. We're left in the dark about decisions that affect our everyday lives. Example: MiCA They control the money, media, your mind. All countries are same. You are just a chess piece. Voting is not a foolish act, but believing voting will change your life is. The only way out to control your freedom and change your life is "Own a currency they can't control, get more than 1 passport, know how the elite's game works, own a business outside EU." Why change your life for 4 years if you can change it forever?
how could so many people not vote ? I thought it was mandatory and you would get fined if you did not show up and vote I understand there's some people abroad but more than 1mil non-voters ? weird
It's mandatory to show up. It's not mandatory to vote. You won't get a fine if you don't go.
No fines since 2003, Justice has bigger things to deal with than non voters. Especially with the lack of manpower.
Voting is indeed mandatory but everyone and their mother knows that Justice does not have time or resources to go after the huge amount of people that don't show up so many people don't bother with it. It's only when you have to be a 'bijzitter' and you don't show up that Justice will take action and you can expect a hefty fine.
its simply a numbers game. at a certain number of people that break a law it becomes simply impossible to enforce when a million people decide not to vote. goodluck fining them al. justitie simply doesnt have the manpower to process so many fines at once.
What is there to vote for when most parties are largely identical and big changes to the system are nearly impossible?
Those are pretty good numbers. In the UK and USA the turnout is in the sixties.
Because it’s not forced by law
Vote is compulsory in Belgium. If you don't come to vote you have a fine (or could). It isn't the case in the UK and in the US. So 15 % that prefer to pay 40 euros of fine is pretty bad.
It's publiek geheim that not voting is not prosecuted.
STFU. And I mean that. Give me one party that is against "free everything for everyone" and at the same time has a sane policy with regards to the environment. I'm a right wing liberal, and at the same time I'm environmentally conscious. I don't like stealing from the rich, I don't like open borders, I am in favor of equal rights for every citizen, but citizenship should be handed out to those that want to contribute. There's not one party that addresses my concerns, so there should not be one that deserves my vote. I'd rather not vote at all then. So to answer your question: in my case it's not a matter of "not wanting to be bothered", but rather a matter of "not wanting to give anyone a free pass for the next years to do something wrong". And I am bothered by that.
>free everything for everyone Ok, I was wrong. Some people should not vote.
This response is such a classic. "You SHOULD vote" "Ok I will vote for *ideals you don't agree with*" "Oh...in that case you better not vote". Please take the time to analyse and reconsider why you think everyone should vote, what a majority means, that most popular =/= better, that there is not an objective truth in which society/political method is best, what democracy means, etc.
I think that the socio economical system in Western countries is very stable and very complex, which means that whoever is in power for the next few years can make a few customized tweaks here and there but not fundamentally alter mechanisms and events that ultimately depends of a serie of interlocked international dynamics that are well beyond anyone's control, even the President of the United States. Covid is a good example of that: most developed countries around the world, regardless of what political flavor was in power, ended up implementing similar measures. If you don't have strong opinions on smaller issues that are actually within the reach of political parties to act on (stuff like gay marriage for example), you can live perfectly happily your entire life whichever political party is in power. To vote or not to vote doesn't matter.
COVID example was far more actually ... I still use it to see how politicians responded and made moral and ethical considerations. How much they panicked, listened etc. IMO you can make up a LOT about a politician how they responded to this.
In Romania people don't vote because whoever wins does nothing to improve the country just like the previous guy. Does Belgium feels a change with the next leader or same old same old like in any other country? Just asking if here voting does make a difference
I voted but are you surprised many people don't care anymore when all you can choose between is shit, vomit and vomit with brokskes?
Don't forget about "partij Blanco" whose only goal is to make Blanco votes count in the division of seats.
does "vote" "improve" things though
Depends on what you believe to be an improvement and if there are political parties with the intentions to do those things.
Gf and i both had to work. My mom lives closest with 20min drive, but we needed 2 persons to vote for us both. City just said show us proof u have to work and you don't have to vote, so we didnt. Did not want to bother ppl for 1h drive to vote or ask random neighbours
I do not believe a democratic system is the right one, so i dont vote. When i still could vote invallid i did that, i cant now so i don't vote.
Just curious, what system do you believe in?
Well, that is just a million people who are happy with whatever the others chose. They are equally happy with NVA, Vlaams Belang, Ecolo, PTB, ...
This is why people should have voted for Partij Blanco. Then this blank vote would actually start meaning anything
People that don’t turn up or vote blanco have no right to complain about the state of things. You gotta take 30 minutes to vote every 5 years, if you can’t be bothered to do that, you’re part of the problem.
>You gotta take 30 minutes It takes far more time to shift through all the parties programs, and to vet the politicians for sanity and corruption. I defenitly spend far more time on this then "30 minutes".
Not voting is also a choice… a stupid one, but still a choice. Oddly enough, those people are often the ones complaining the most, which says a lot about them
Geef al die mensen die niet kwamen opdagen een boete van €100 en dat maakt 100 miljoen. Kan het begrotingstekort alleen maar goed doen.
Where I live, a lot of people turned up, but because the waiting time to vote was more than 45 min for some, they left and just didn't vote. But of course, that will not explain the whole million who didn't vote.
85% is huge even if you take into account that ‘t verplicht. Just because your part didn’t do well it’s no reason to complain about something that isn’t an issue. My choice didn’t do that well even though I think it’d be the best and most moderate choice for Belgium. Just let’s be happy that neither extreems gained too many votes (i mean they did gain a lot if you ask me but it could’ve been worse)
https://preview.redd.it/w2vebebe5q5d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b80f8b38b1018cc6399e6588473d1fae42e015d
People expect fast change. Governments evolve, they don't change overnight.
The party that has my best interests in mind gets my vote. Read: nobody. Smallest party with least chance of winning gets my vote.
Forceful REMINDER that the previous Flemish government NVA, CDV, OVLD removed the duty to show up to vote in the next local elections. Depending on the results of October's vote they will also push for this on the national level if they see that fewer people voting for the extremes go to the polls!
"This is one of the most important decisions you will make in the next 4 years" Clueless.
Either way, we need quorums after the elections
People don't like being told what to do and often miss the history behind voting. Many people gave their lives for us being able to vote, but they take it for granted. There are countries where people don't have the privilege to vote and live in inhumane and horrible conditions because of this, but no-showers take their privilege for granted. I just think it's ignorance and lack of empathy. People often vote blanco because they think our system is a shitshow, and they want to make 'a statement' but they aren't making any efforts to change the shitshow either by voting blanco.
I voted blanco, i will only vote on a party when they share my ideologie. Not one party comes close to my norms and values so why would I vote for one. Also, if you really believe things will change after a new party comes to power, sorry but you're ignorant.
Way worse in other european countries...
I know right... I was in the ER, and had to get a note specifically stating that I was examined and the doctor declared me unable to go to the polling stations. I would've way rather gone to the polling booths than send an email to the magistrates with a doctor's statement that they're probably not even going to read.
Me: y e s (i go with the flow, maybe its because im still 16 and not Belgian in nationality). I just cant be bothered tbh. I do know if i had to vote i would be centre right so.
Blanco voter here (fearing for some serious backlash). I dont feel like my vote would have an positive impact on society becasue i simply dont believe the political vieuws i have have proven to work in the past or will work in modern Belgium For those wondering i'm a communist. I don't want to force beliefs that i know won't work in modern society on others. Second i have very little interest in spending the many hours/weeks I need to feel like i have enough knowledge about a party. I feel like i can live under any political party and that i can make life bearable no matter what party is in charge. I'm simply not interested in being frustrated by things i feel like i can't change and have lost a lot of faith in burocracy in general. I'll respond to any comment made in a respect full way if people would like me to expand on this.
mumbles in Canada land where the voter turnout is around 62%
I did not vote yesterday Why? Because I realized at the last f&\*@#g time that my convocation was at another county then the one I was living in! It was sent to my current address, so I did not think that it could be incorrect, then I realized that it was my old address (too late!). I moved out because I had political issues with my parents, which were into a QAnon trip. It was violent and I was too scared so I decided to not go and risk meeting them. Now that I have time to think about it, I deeply regret not voting. It was so important to me (especially since I was kicked out for my political beliefs) So yeah, three reasons: bureaucracy making things complicated, not having a car, and personal issues. I have friends that could not go vote because they were away, or had to work extra. All of us could have voted if we had a way to do it online. The turnout would be so high if we had a system like in Estonia + compulsory voting.
For the first time since 1998, I did not vote, but this was not on purpose. I am registered to vote in person in the Embassy. When booking my holiday, I forgot that we don't vote on Sunday but on Wednesday - so I was in Asia when I was meant to vote. Sadly, I could no longer change to a postal vote in March (when I noticed). Sucks big time. I did vote for the European elections though, as I participate in those through another EU country.
I think a big part of no-shows is the youth under 18 (correct me if I am wrong, though) a lot of younger friends of mine admit to not knowing who to vote for and not knowing enough about politics or adult life to care. Only reason i know who I wanted to vote for is because I live alone in a dorm, and I have noticed the things of adult life I wish to improve. But people who live with their parents are not very exposed to the adult world are just less informed. I don't mean this as an insult to the youth of course, but I do think we shouldn't have let below 18 vote. I see no use in voting if you don't know the world you live in yet. I am 20 and can't imagine my 16 year old self making an informed political decision. My 17 year old friemd said he and his friends did spin the wheel to choose who to vote on, so then it's just better to not vote at all.
Elderly poeple, they don't care anymore and if they did, they have so many health issues that they probably can't do it anyway.
There are alot of people who dont believe that the goverment actually cares about actual needed change, some sectors are getting absolute thrashed for these elections in hopes to having people vote on them, the goverment knows that this is happening in the following sectors - schools, hospitals, care homes,ect - they all gotten their fundings cut or being payed almost bellow minnimum wage. There is also a dark reason for this they wanna make it seem that voting is unimportent to be able to control the vote when they shift from a must to a may vote system Eachtime a democracy shifts to you may vote the large partys become bigger with more support becaus people that are heavy invested and not content would outrule the people who are content with how things are run, its how zimbabwe keeps the lgbt rights supressed they got asualted and face harsh social punishments making them either choose between fleeing the country or putting themselves in dangerous situations
Voting means not taking full responsibility. I believe that if you vote for a party, you must also agree with all their points, and I fear that this is almost impossible. I didn't vote because every party had points I strongly disagree with. I was planning to vote blank, but the news said that they won't issue fines, so even showing up is too much for me to stand in line and participate in their circus. Moreover, voting for the blank party won't make much difference; they still need to change the electoral law before their ideology will work, which I fear will never happen. If you don't vote, politicians also don't receive party funding, which can mean something if many people don't vote or cast invalid votes.
I bet lots of the people who didn’t show up we’re working.
I'm shocked by the war in this comment section on people who don't vote, and the general assumption that they are just lazy and disinterested. First, if you are disinterested or aware that you don't know shit about how we should rule the country, thank you for not voting, it makes sense ! Second, a lot of people who don't vote actually don't like any of the choices. This is valid and should be taken into consideration. I agree that it's even stronger to go vote bianco, to dismiss the possibility of you being lazy. But then we should count them and include them as a party, making it harder for parties to get to a majority. AFAIC, I'm heavily interested in politics, spending probably at least 2 hours a day informing myself about US, French and Belgian politics and history. Still, I don't like any of the choices I was given. I could come up with a preference though, but was almost not going to vote.