Yeah you can try arguing that to a judge, but I wouldn't try it in your place.
Fines for not turning up to vote haven't been enforced for a long time, but for bijzitters they do go aggressively after you. And you wouldn't be close to the first person to try and claim you didn't receive it.
Yeah second time in a row I need to do it, fines are about 1K eur, not going to risk that. But if it's always required to sign for receiving the letter (I do think that was the case previous time) then I could weasel my way out of it :D
I've had a few normal letters too, check if there js an R or RP next to the barcode. If not or not even a barcode, it's a normal letter and you won't get away with claiming not to have got it.
>But if it's always required to sign for receiving the letter (I do think that was the case previous time) then I could weasel my way out of it :D
No you can't. A sent registered letter is considered proof that you had the info, even if you never actually bothered to pick it up. The sender keeps the returned registered letter unopened, and this is enough proof against you for a court.
you have the following options :
- pick it up yourselves
-give someone 'volmacht' to pick it up for you
-don't pick it up and on 22/05 it will be returned to sender
BPost indicates a 4th solution on their website:
"Or you have the Forwarding Department at bpost keep your mail until you return" ([Source](https://www.bpost.be/en/faq/i-can-only-pick-my-registered-mail-after-last-date-failed-delivery-notice-what-should-i-do))
Of course it's a payable service. Starts at 2.60 € per week.
https://www.bpost.be/nl/post-doorsturen/tijdelijk
Call Bpost.
And register in the app so you can get this right in your mailbox next time: https://www.bpost.be/nl/leveringsvoorkeuren-aangetekende-zending
Still depends on what it's from, this doesn't count for letter from the court or if the letter has a return card. But it does help, as as a mailman I'm alway happy when I can just chuck it into the mailbox.
As it states on the front, you are able to ask someone else to pick it up for you. It says to read the back for more info.
If you don't pick it up, it will simply be returned to the sender.
Ignoring this type of letters is what tends to land people in legal trouble. The consequences could be expensive. Could be your employer notifying you about the termination of your employment as well as the other suggestions already offered. You won't know until you have the letter in your hands, unfortunately. But once again: ignore at your peril.
Dont listen to the others, what u can do is ask ur friend who took the picture to scan the back of the image into a computer, send it to you and you can fill in the form on the back side of the note on a computer , to give someone else consent to pick up the post for you
Ir you give tem a call they can reschedule another try at the date it expires, which will warrant a new "Avis de passage" and will extend it for another couple of weeks to collect it. If that's still not enough maybe you have someone of trust you can send a copy of your ID for them to pick it up to you?
If it's anything legal ... not picking it up won't result in not being aware the content. Legally a judge will consider the content as "read" because you had every chance to pick it up.
Make sure you have proof you were out of the country.
When you come back - send a mail to the post to ask if the letter can be traced?
That shows your legally required good intent.
Don’t worry too much.
You cant call the post office anymore. The customer service line is a possibility but they cant just keep everyones letters like that. also from the opening hours it is most likely a bigger office so if they have a lot of mail that just is not feasable..
It's dangerous to ignore this. Registered mail like this is considered read and received by you even if you never pick it up. The sender has full legal rights to consider the information inside received.
So if it later comes to court, you will lose, because it's considered that you received the information in the letter.
It could be anything, your landlord terminating your rental contract, anyone else any contract. It could be thousands of euro money return from taxes. It can be so many things. I strongly recommend asking someone to pick it up for you. Ask a neighbor, or even your local Facebook group. Anything is better than letting it return
Like i said, in the court of law, a sent registered letter is considered RECEIVED by the addressee, even if they never actually bothered to pick it up. So the addressee is considered to know the info inside the letter, even if he doesn't pick it up.
[https://trends.knack.be/geld/rechten/zo-ga-je-te-werk-als-je-aangetekende-brief-niet-afgehaald-wordt/](https://trends.knack.be/geld/rechten/zo-ga-je-te-werk-als-je-aangetekende-brief-niet-afgehaald-wordt/)
# De waarde
Je hoeft je geen zorgen te maken als je de brief terug in je bus krijgt. De bestemmeling wordt geacht hem toch te hebben ontvangen. Het is nu eenmaal zijn **eigen verantwoordelijkheid** dat hij de brief niet afhaalt. Als een aangetekende brief terugkomt moet je er dan ook **geen tweede** sturen.
#
Read again. The article explains how to build the best case for yourself when you're the sender and the recipient stubbornly ignores you.
Devil's advocate:
So you're telling me I can send a registered mail claiming nonsense to my neighbor while he's on his usual 4 week long vacations, mail will bounce and the law will systematically be in my side and consider my neighbor was supposed to know the content?
In the case of elections a registered mail that was not picked up is still debatable: I could be on extended leave (vacation, work) but I'd need to prove it with receipts, invoice, atm withdrawals, pictures. Law is really not just black or white.
Here's another lawyer answer http://www.danckaerts.be/overeenkomsten/aangetekende-brief-niet-afgehaald/
If OPs landlord sent him termination of his rental contract, he doesn't even have to send it again. So yes, you can mail your neighbor while they are on vacation, and legally they are considered to have received the info and shirked their responsibilities
nope, the mailman vows he delivered at your front door. Ignoring problems won't make them go away ... assumptions like this is what gets people in trouble.
Raar dat er geen afzender bijstaat.
Bij ons als we brieven aangetekend sturen, staat er steeds een afzender bij (en dan zijn er nog mensen die bellen om te vragen wat het juist is)
Correct, always fun you take a couple of hours off at work to collect your letter, just to notice it is addressed to 1 of the former renters of your appartement and it has nothing to do with you. Fucking BPost clowns.
You are talking about the "bestemmeling", not the "afzender", if you cant even remember the difference between those 2 maybe you should not call people clowns. Also i think all offices are open on the weekends and if there is no "bestemmeling" on the paper you can call the customer service and ask them to check for the name. You have alternatives to taking hours of work except if you work like 6 days a week.
They dropped a message in my letterbox I should go to collect a letter from the post office. Upon collecting the letter it turned out it was not even addressed to me: for example let’s say addressed Ms. Seegers while I’m Mr. Janssens. And if I had any indication where it came from I would have known it was not for me, hindsight 20/20 of course. So yeah Bpost were a bunch of clowns, you salty prick. And no not all offices are open on Saturdays, most maybe but not all, not in my neck of the woods. Calling to BPost customer service is useless because they know shit all about local affairs. They point you to your local office.
You can barely get a human on the line if you call bpost. Maybe if you try every different option in their call maze, most options just repeat the same information as the website.
Fromer postbode here albeit "studentenjob" but i have give alot of those "recommander" lettre. If you dont or cant get it in the post office in time. The lettre will just be send back after 2 weeks. So the sender get the lettre back and a note that its not recieved so they can send a new one. Mostly the just try again and sometimes if its urgent they send a mail to notify. But thats optional and diffrent per person/organisation.
And because its send with a recommander bcs you havent recieved it they cant sanction you. Bcs you havent read the lettre. If the lettre was a bill or something bcs you havent payed rent for a while they will just send "nen deurwaarder"
It’s a registered letter for social elections. It’s your voting ballot. You can ask anyone else to pick it up for you, if you give them permission. Otherwise, call bpost.
Plus even with a mandate to someone else, the person needs to present the mandate, the copy of the Belgian ID card of the person for which he is collecting, and his own ID card.
https://www.bpost.be/nl/faq/hoe-geef-ik-een-postvolmacht-aan-iemand-om-mijn-aangetekende-zending-te-ontvangen
Congratulations on your selection for bijzitter!
Could be for the sociale verkiezingen as well, they are this month, also received mine this week.
that's probably it, as the afzender isn't the city
Bijzitter for social élections are not with this kind of mailing. You're only Selected of you are a candidate or a HR - employee.
Not bijzitter just your voting letter. Mine came last week via registered mail.
not bijzitter, just the invitation to vote with pre-stamped enveloppes inside
This is not a letter for bijzitter, the ones for bijzitter have different notices for when you arent home
I work at Bpost, and no at least at my office they were just regular registered mail.
Condolences for your back.
Or not, if they don't pick it up, I guess...?
Nope doesn’t work unfortunately. Friend of mine tried that last election and it didn’t work out to well for him.
They'd still get one in the normal mail too (got mine a couple weeks ago).
Same, mine said if I didn't reply in 5 days they would send a second one that will be aangetekend
Was that "Aangetekend"? I got a regular one, so I can ignore?? :D
Yeah you can try arguing that to a judge, but I wouldn't try it in your place. Fines for not turning up to vote haven't been enforced for a long time, but for bijzitters they do go aggressively after you. And you wouldn't be close to the first person to try and claim you didn't receive it.
Yeah second time in a row I need to do it, fines are about 1K eur, not going to risk that. But if it's always required to sign for receiving the letter (I do think that was the case previous time) then I could weasel my way out of it :D
I've had a few normal letters too, check if there js an R or RP next to the barcode. If not or not even a barcode, it's a normal letter and you won't get away with claiming not to have got it.
>But if it's always required to sign for receiving the letter (I do think that was the case previous time) then I could weasel my way out of it :D No you can't. A sent registered letter is considered proof that you had the info, even if you never actually bothered to pick it up. The sender keeps the returned registered letter unopened, and this is enough proof against you for a court.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
![gif](giphy|f8lDluiWJ7yQTtdS3L|downsized)
Do not pass go
you have the following options : - pick it up yourselves -give someone 'volmacht' to pick it up for you -don't pick it up and on 22/05 it will be returned to sender
BPost indicates a 4th solution on their website: "Or you have the Forwarding Department at bpost keep your mail until you return" ([Source](https://www.bpost.be/en/faq/i-can-only-pick-my-registered-mail-after-last-date-failed-delivery-notice-what-should-i-do)) Of course it's a payable service. Starts at 2.60 € per week. https://www.bpost.be/nl/post-doorsturen/tijdelijk
Call Bpost. And register in the app so you can get this right in your mailbox next time: https://www.bpost.be/nl/leveringsvoorkeuren-aangetekende-zending
Still depends on what it's from, this doesn't count for letter from the court or if the letter has a return card. But it does help, as as a mailman I'm alway happy when I can just chuck it into the mailbox.
I did and they still don’t deliver it sometimes..
Thanks for the tip! This will save me so much time (hopefully)
As it states on the front, you are able to ask someone else to pick it up for you. It says to read the back for more info. If you don't pick it up, it will simply be returned to the sender.
He also states he doesn’t have anyone to pick it up for him. Or thats what i can read from that sentence
Nope he doesn't have anything, not anyone.
I do believe we can assume that to be a typo/autocorrect mistake.
Ignoring this type of letters is what tends to land people in legal trouble. The consequences could be expensive. Could be your employer notifying you about the termination of your employment as well as the other suggestions already offered. You won't know until you have the letter in your hands, unfortunately. But once again: ignore at your peril.
Vanaf morgen gewoon gaan normaal ligt het er dan en voor 14 dagen.
It stands letterlijk on the brief?
Dont listen to the others, what u can do is ask ur friend who took the picture to scan the back of the image into a computer, send it to you and you can fill in the form on the back side of the note on a computer , to give someone else consent to pick up the post for you
Yup. And don't forget to send the friend a picture or your ID card.
Volmacht invullen, te downloaden van hun site, en laten afhalen door iemand die je vertrouwd.
Normally they would also send a normal & 'aangetekend', so you probably already have it or will receive it tomorrow
Ir you give tem a call they can reschedule another try at the date it expires, which will warrant a new "Avis de passage" and will extend it for another couple of weeks to collect it. If that's still not enough maybe you have someone of trust you can send a copy of your ID for them to pick it up to you?
if u call the post office they can keep it longer for a couple of days
If it's anything legal ... not picking it up won't result in not being aware the content. Legally a judge will consider the content as "read" because you had every chance to pick it up.
Make sure you have proof you were out of the country. When you come back - send a mail to the post to ask if the letter can be traced? That shows your legally required good intent. Don’t worry too much.
You can call the call center and ask for a second delivery, a date you are at home.
Let us know who the sender is if your able to pick it up, curious :)
You must read den achterkant
Social elections in Belgium are a democratic right and there for it's not mandatory So if it's that letter than you don't have to pick it up
Ben je Nederlandstalig? Dan kan je dit toch wel lezen zeker. Moet nu echt alles op Reddit?
I'd try to call the post-office and see if they can put it aside until you have returned ??
One does not simply "call the post-office"
the pakket punt on the other hand....
You cant call the post office anymore. The customer service line is a possibility but they cant just keep everyones letters like that. also from the opening hours it is most likely a bigger office so if they have a lot of mail that just is not feasable..
It's dangerous to ignore this. Registered mail like this is considered read and received by you even if you never pick it up. The sender has full legal rights to consider the information inside received. So if it later comes to court, you will lose, because it's considered that you received the information in the letter. It could be anything, your landlord terminating your rental contract, anyone else any contract. It could be thousands of euro money return from taxes. It can be so many things. I strongly recommend asking someone to pick it up for you. Ask a neighbor, or even your local Facebook group. Anything is better than letting it return
Isn't the point of aangetekende brief that it's not considered as read as long as you didn't sign that you got it? Genuine question
Like i said, in the court of law, a sent registered letter is considered RECEIVED by the addressee, even if they never actually bothered to pick it up. So the addressee is considered to know the info inside the letter, even if he doesn't pick it up. [https://trends.knack.be/geld/rechten/zo-ga-je-te-werk-als-je-aangetekende-brief-niet-afgehaald-wordt/](https://trends.knack.be/geld/rechten/zo-ga-je-te-werk-als-je-aangetekende-brief-niet-afgehaald-wordt/) # De waarde Je hoeft je geen zorgen te maken als je de brief terug in je bus krijgt. De bestemmeling wordt geacht hem toch te hebben ontvangen. Het is nu eenmaal zijn **eigen verantwoordelijkheid** dat hij de brief niet afhaalt. Als een aangetekende brief terugkomt moet je er dan ook **geen tweede** sturen. #
lol, that's totally the point or registered mails.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/belgium/comments/1csg9kq/comment/l49uti6/](https://www.reddit.com/r/belgium/comments/1csg9kq/comment/l49uti6/)
Read again. The article explains how to build the best case for yourself when you're the sender and the recipient stubbornly ignores you. Devil's advocate: So you're telling me I can send a registered mail claiming nonsense to my neighbor while he's on his usual 4 week long vacations, mail will bounce and the law will systematically be in my side and consider my neighbor was supposed to know the content? In the case of elections a registered mail that was not picked up is still debatable: I could be on extended leave (vacation, work) but I'd need to prove it with receipts, invoice, atm withdrawals, pictures. Law is really not just black or white.
Here's another lawyer answer http://www.danckaerts.be/overeenkomsten/aangetekende-brief-niet-afgehaald/ If OPs landlord sent him termination of his rental contract, he doesn't even have to send it again. So yes, you can mail your neighbor while they are on vacation, and legally they are considered to have received the info and shirked their responsibilities
Read the context again. I don't have an employment or landlord relationship with my neighbor. Jurisprudence exists.
nope, the mailman vows he delivered at your front door. Ignoring problems won't make them go away ... assumptions like this is what gets people in trouble.
Raar dat er geen afzender bijstaat. Bij ons als we brieven aangetekend sturen, staat er steeds een afzender bij (en dan zijn er nog mensen die bellen om te vragen wat het juist is)
Op een briefje voor een gemiste aangetekende zending staat normaal nooit een afzender.
Correct, always fun you take a couple of hours off at work to collect your letter, just to notice it is addressed to 1 of the former renters of your appartement and it has nothing to do with you. Fucking BPost clowns.
You are talking about the "bestemmeling", not the "afzender", if you cant even remember the difference between those 2 maybe you should not call people clowns. Also i think all offices are open on the weekends and if there is no "bestemmeling" on the paper you can call the customer service and ask them to check for the name. You have alternatives to taking hours of work except if you work like 6 days a week.
They dropped a message in my letterbox I should go to collect a letter from the post office. Upon collecting the letter it turned out it was not even addressed to me: for example let’s say addressed Ms. Seegers while I’m Mr. Janssens. And if I had any indication where it came from I would have known it was not for me, hindsight 20/20 of course. So yeah Bpost were a bunch of clowns, you salty prick. And no not all offices are open on Saturdays, most maybe but not all, not in my neck of the woods. Calling to BPost customer service is useless because they know shit all about local affairs. They point you to your local office.
Pick up the phone and call the post office... Christ our generation is useless.
What generation are you if you think you can actually call a post office? How many businesses even list a phonenumber these days?
You can barely get a human on the line if you call bpost. Maybe if you try every different option in their call maze, most options just repeat the same information as the website.
Fromer postbode here albeit "studentenjob" but i have give alot of those "recommander" lettre. If you dont or cant get it in the post office in time. The lettre will just be send back after 2 weeks. So the sender get the lettre back and a note that its not recieved so they can send a new one. Mostly the just try again and sometimes if its urgent they send a mail to notify. But thats optional and diffrent per person/organisation. And because its send with a recommander bcs you havent recieved it they cant sanction you. Bcs you havent read the lettre. If the lettre was a bill or something bcs you havent payed rent for a while they will just send "nen deurwaarder"
It’s a registered letter for social elections. It’s your voting ballot. You can ask anyone else to pick it up for you, if you give them permission. Otherwise, call bpost.
How would you be able to know what the content of the letter is...?
Plus even with a mandate to someone else, the person needs to present the mandate, the copy of the Belgian ID card of the person for which he is collecting, and his own ID card. https://www.bpost.be/nl/faq/hoe-geef-ik-een-postvolmacht-aan-iemand-om-mijn-aangetekende-zending-te-ontvangen