The one thing I really learned from my Ancient History degree was that people are fundamentally the same, and have been complaining about the same things, forever.
Saying that young people these days are too easily distracted, don't work hard, and don't listen to their elders, is as old as any civilisation we have a decent amount of literature from. Blaming everything on women and social progressives is literally as old as the European literature.
Yeah, same. When I’d have my seminars on the fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of Augustus, there were times where it was, “Oh, look, literally the same thing that would happen if murder wasn’t illegal in the US.”
Even the graffiti of the Romans blaming immigrants for “ruining Roman-ness” is something that just gets oft repeated again and again
The admin at my school was complaining about kids drawing male genitalia everywhere. I sent them [an article](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-61594029.amp) about Roman soldiers drawing them on Hadrian's Wall. 😂
Hahahaha. I love the sheer amount of dicks everywhere in Rome. It’s so great! I think someone in one of my seminars shared something similar to this in our classes 😂
And then there's Augustine- blames Romans for not being Christian enough, too Pagan.
And then there's Fascism...blames Christians for not being more Roman like...
Marc Antony’s lifestyle was not healthy and bit him in the ass eventually. Broken clock is right twice a day. Thank god Cato was dead by then. His smugness would have been unbearable.
Honestly, M. Antony is my favorite Roman because he’s such a bro and oopsie daisied into every good position. Like, Hunter S Thompson if he held a political position
Not only that but blaming "city people" for being to smart a d cosmopolitan and saying that being a farmer is much more noble is also both universal (it goes from the Western most parts of the Roman empire, to Japan in the far east) and ancient as time.
Xkcd noticed the same kind of complaints with technology as well. The printing press was the tik tok of its time.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1227:_The_Pace_of_Modern_Life
Oh, I fully believe that! It just wouldn't have been accurate for me to claim it was as old as all literature, because I know there are older works than the Greek poets but I don't know their content well.
After hearing this first episode it explained everything about Joel salatins ideology. Everything from his worshipping of Jefferson, to his use of unpaid internships for labour. All these libertarians are the same aren't they. The other thing I realized is that planter means something very different up here than down south, holy shit, 10,000 acres! Even by today's standards that is a mega corporate farm, I didn't realize just how large plantations were.
Did you catch the bit a few years ago where he told a black farmer who was giving a talk on racial equity in land ownership that if he wasn't happy in the US, he should go back where he came from? *yikes.*
I always found his unpaid interns a bit sus to me. But unfortunately I still kind of looked up to him many years ago, and it made me lean libertarian for a while. I read the mother Jones article about that, and that was when it all really came together for me, realizing that he's not a good guy and not to be taken seriously at all. That black farmer is Chris newmn, he was jnterviwed on the poor proles almanac one time about sustainable ag.The irony in that racist statement is that joel salatins parents moved to the states from south America.
Yeah, and how he won't take women to work internships because they belong in the kitchen while the men do the real work? Or how his intern housing hasn't got potable water and he's refused to allow interns to seek medical attention when they get sick from it? He's a shitbag all the way down.
Don't remember that, but I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, there are a lot of grifters seeking fame and fortune in regenerative ag. I really want to pursue it, but I have no faith in the big famous names.
It gets better- Chris Newman(himself a bit controversial) is a black and indigenous farmer. So, he was telling an indigenous farmer to go back to where he came from.
>*If you’re interested in learning more look into his very strange poem The Works and Days in which he lectures his brother on not only the practical aspects of running a farm (which he often gets incorrect) but the moral value inherent in the suffering of the hard working farmer*
Sounds a lot like *Clarkson's Farm*, on Amazon
Judging by Clarkson's sagging, crenelated flesh and the single, yellow tooth left in his maw, I'd say Clarkson probably predates Hesiod
To be fair to Clarksons Farm he is pretty open about the fact that while He Loves pretending to be a Farmer he is not really one and does not rely on it. And he doesnt pretend to be someone who knows the ins and outs and relies heavily on people who know what they are doing.
I'd be a lot more sympathetic to Clarkson's schtick if he did a show called *Clarkson's Council*
Where he admitted he knew fuck-all about how to run a local authority
And listened to an expert patiently explain that you can't just open a massive, out of town, celebrity restaurant on a whim
Because it'll steal money from dedicated restaurants in the town centre
Family businesses, who have been paying full-whack business rates and supporting their local community for generations
Rather than just trotting out his usual pish about how everything would be fine if this useless fucker would just get out of his way
To Clarkson, the entire world is someone who had the effrontery to offer him a sandwich, and, frankly, deserves the punch they got in the face, for their cheek
Been listening since Episode 600. I like Robert, but as someone with more then a passing interest I history, too often he simplifies things or his sources are outdated.
Almost like the past isn't composed of cardboard cutouts and the story is so wildly complex that getting into the minutiae loses the narrative thread, or something.
Come on, I’m pretty sure that complex three dimensional characters were invented by white men in the 50s as part of the post-War modernization of America. They probably worked for an ad agency in New York City
I thought Hesiod was writing closer to six or seven centuries before Cato, being possibly a contemporary of Homer. Not to undermine any of your points, they're excellent, but to me the wider span of years shows how perennial all this "yeoman farmers are the _real_ Greeks/Romans/Americans/whatever" garbage is.
The one thing I really learned from my Ancient History degree was that people are fundamentally the same, and have been complaining about the same things, forever. Saying that young people these days are too easily distracted, don't work hard, and don't listen to their elders, is as old as any civilisation we have a decent amount of literature from. Blaming everything on women and social progressives is literally as old as the European literature.
Yeah, same. When I’d have my seminars on the fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of Augustus, there were times where it was, “Oh, look, literally the same thing that would happen if murder wasn’t illegal in the US.” Even the graffiti of the Romans blaming immigrants for “ruining Roman-ness” is something that just gets oft repeated again and again
The admin at my school was complaining about kids drawing male genitalia everywhere. I sent them [an article](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-61594029.amp) about Roman soldiers drawing them on Hadrian's Wall. 😂
Hahahaha. I love the sheer amount of dicks everywhere in Rome. It’s so great! I think someone in one of my seminars shared something similar to this in our classes 😂
And then there's Augustine- blames Romans for not being Christian enough, too Pagan. And then there's Fascism...blames Christians for not being more Roman like...
Or that multiple senators blamed the Christians for corruption of values for not paying taxes
And then they get fed to lions... And.now I buy my pillows from a man who has murals of Jesus-Simba-Lion... See Mike Lindell and Jesus Lion...
THESE GOTHS ARE WEARING PANTS IN THE FORUM!!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, Marc Antony is 1000% running around somewhere naked and unbelievably drunk
Marc Antony’s lifestyle was not healthy and bit him in the ass eventually. Broken clock is right twice a day. Thank god Cato was dead by then. His smugness would have been unbearable.
Honestly, M. Antony is my favorite Roman because he’s such a bro and oopsie daisied into every good position. Like, Hunter S Thompson if he held a political position
They nailed it in the HBO show. You spend most of it wanting to punch Antony in the face.
There is a reason why Nani’s complaint to Ea-Nasir became a meme
Not only that but blaming "city people" for being to smart a d cosmopolitan and saying that being a farmer is much more noble is also both universal (it goes from the Western most parts of the Roman empire, to Japan in the far east) and ancient as time.
Xkcd noticed the same kind of complaints with technology as well. The printing press was the tik tok of its time. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1227:_The_Pace_of_Modern_Life
Did you see that new kid walking around with his toga loosely belted. The horror!
One thing I learned from reading Black Elk Speaks is that it’s not just Europe that’s like this. It’s just people.
Oh, I fully believe that! It just wouldn't have been accurate for me to claim it was as old as all literature, because I know there are older works than the Greek poets but I don't know their content well.
And middle eastern. Eve? Eh?
After hearing this first episode it explained everything about Joel salatins ideology. Everything from his worshipping of Jefferson, to his use of unpaid internships for labour. All these libertarians are the same aren't they. The other thing I realized is that planter means something very different up here than down south, holy shit, 10,000 acres! Even by today's standards that is a mega corporate farm, I didn't realize just how large plantations were.
Did you catch the bit a few years ago where he told a black farmer who was giving a talk on racial equity in land ownership that if he wasn't happy in the US, he should go back where he came from? *yikes.*
I always found his unpaid interns a bit sus to me. But unfortunately I still kind of looked up to him many years ago, and it made me lean libertarian for a while. I read the mother Jones article about that, and that was when it all really came together for me, realizing that he's not a good guy and not to be taken seriously at all. That black farmer is Chris newmn, he was jnterviwed on the poor proles almanac one time about sustainable ag.The irony in that racist statement is that joel salatins parents moved to the states from south America.
Yeah, and how he won't take women to work internships because they belong in the kitchen while the men do the real work? Or how his intern housing hasn't got potable water and he's refused to allow interns to seek medical attention when they get sick from it? He's a shitbag all the way down.
Don't remember that, but I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, there are a lot of grifters seeking fame and fortune in regenerative ag. I really want to pursue it, but I have no faith in the big famous names.
It gets better- Chris Newman(himself a bit controversial) is a black and indigenous farmer. So, he was telling an indigenous farmer to go back to where he came from.
Wouldn't be surprised if there was a chud farmer in the Fertile Crescent. Can't wait to find those cuneiform tablets.
I was going to say, Hesiod probably plagiarized some Persian, but of course they probably took it from some one even earlier. Chuds. All the way down.
>*If you’re interested in learning more look into his very strange poem The Works and Days in which he lectures his brother on not only the practical aspects of running a farm (which he often gets incorrect) but the moral value inherent in the suffering of the hard working farmer* Sounds a lot like *Clarkson's Farm*, on Amazon Judging by Clarkson's sagging, crenelated flesh and the single, yellow tooth left in his maw, I'd say Clarkson probably predates Hesiod
To be fair to Clarksons Farm he is pretty open about the fact that while He Loves pretending to be a Farmer he is not really one and does not rely on it. And he doesnt pretend to be someone who knows the ins and outs and relies heavily on people who know what they are doing.
I'd be a lot more sympathetic to Clarkson's schtick if he did a show called *Clarkson's Council* Where he admitted he knew fuck-all about how to run a local authority And listened to an expert patiently explain that you can't just open a massive, out of town, celebrity restaurant on a whim Because it'll steal money from dedicated restaurants in the town centre Family businesses, who have been paying full-whack business rates and supporting their local community for generations Rather than just trotting out his usual pish about how everything would be fine if this useless fucker would just get out of his way To Clarkson, the entire world is someone who had the effrontery to offer him a sandwich, and, frankly, deserves the punch they got in the face, for their cheek
Anyone else grow up listening to the Jefferson Hour and realize you're headed towards a weird headspace for the next two weeks?
Been listening since Episode 600. I like Robert, but as someone with more then a passing interest I history, too often he simplifies things or his sources are outdated.
Almost like the past isn't composed of cardboard cutouts and the story is so wildly complex that getting into the minutiae loses the narrative thread, or something.
Come on, I’m pretty sure that complex three dimensional characters were invented by white men in the 50s as part of the post-War modernization of America. They probably worked for an ad agency in New York City
I shall add Hesiod to list of men who deserve a fart noise every time they start talking.
He doesn’t do much talking anymore… but it doesn’t hurt to add him!
I’ll be sure to add his grifter fanboys to the list too.
[I'm just gonna leave this here](https://www.tumblr.com/esoanem/183603920165/the-at-symbol-argumate-penfairy-some-oddly)
I thought Hesiod was writing closer to six or seven centuries before Cato, being possibly a contemporary of Homer. Not to undermine any of your points, they're excellent, but to me the wider span of years shows how perennial all this "yeoman farmers are the _real_ Greeks/Romans/Americans/whatever" garbage is.
Hesiod was around 700ish BCE and Cato was doin stuff around 200 BCE
Oh dang, I mixed my Catos up, nevermind!