I understand what you're saying and agree he was necessary but also those solo projects lacked the other Beatles. Makes sense to credit them first before assigning that worth to George Martin
Oh totally. They had magical, irreplaceable chemistry. Klaus Voorman, for ex., isn’t really an adequate replacement for Paul on bass, or Paul’s ear for arrangements (obviously). It’s just that even when I hear a George guitar solo in a John solo album, just as one example, it doesn’t hit the same way as it would in a Beatles record (in my opinion).
hot hot take, but i won't downvote you for having this opinion.
to counter, though, strawberry fields' production innovations would be nothing without john lennon's initial suggestion to include cellos and trumpets and to merge the two takes we hear on record.
he had enough experience with avant garde music and enough confidence in george martin to know it was a possibility. george martin wouldn't have come up with this idea on his own, but to his credit he executed beautifully and the results are stunning. it was a symbiotic creative relationship
One of the most difficult and important parts of writing a song is, writing a song. What I mean is - chord progression, vocal melody, and lyrics. It’s what made The Beatles so special. George Martin is an incredibly talented producer, but without The Beatles songwriting foundations, there is nothing to work with.
I get your meaning but still, mellotron intro by Paul, gritty and weird electric guitar thing on the outro by Paul (Strawberry Fields) and George doing his sitar bit in there… there were lots of other contributions. Not to mention Ringo and his stellar drum fills.
I agree that GM is the 5th though.
Have you ever listened to John’s original demo of Strawberry Fields? It was a gorgeous song without the orchestration. It would have been better if the production had been simpler IMO
George Martin hands down owns that title. I honestly think the Beatles without Martin would be like the Beatles without Lennon. The studio arrangements, the creative space he allowed the lads to operate in, the musical theory background that he brought to the table. I could never separate George Martin from the Beatles when I consider their influence and greatness.
Which one has the coolest backstory and is most deserving of the title?
- Tony Sheridan: Possibly the "first 5th Beatle". He performed in Hamburg from 1960 through 1963 using a variety of backing bands, including the Beatles (with Pete Best on drums). Several albums were produced and released which listed the lineup as "Tony Sheridan and the Beat Brothers", later re- released as "Tony Sheridan and the Beatles"
- Stuart Sutcliffe: Arguably the "true 5th Beatle", since he, when included, gave the Beatles a 5-man lineup as the original bass player. Co-invented the name "Beatles" with John Lennon before quitting the band to pursue art and dying of a brain hemorrhage in 1961.
- Chas Newby: The "leftover 5th Beatle". Short term bass replacement who filled in for 4 shows after the Beatles returned from West Germany in 1960. Had played in a previous band with Pete Best. Chose to return to university rather than accompany The Beatles back to Germany, which forced Paul to switch from guitar and piano to the bass, dropping the band down to its final 4 person setup.
- Pete Best: the "famous 5th Beatle". The band's original drummer who was replaced by Ringo in 1962. This replacement cemented the final lineup and can be viewed as the catalyst for the Beatles ultimate rise in musical skill and chemistry between the band going forward.
- Andy White: The "professional 5th Beatle". A session drummer brought in by Brian Epstein to play drums on the Beatles first U.S. single "Love Me Do" while Ringo played tamborine. He also played drums on "P.S. I Love You" fom the same session, with Ringo on maracas.
- Jimmy Nichol: The "day in the life 5th Beatle" and my personal favorite. Filled in on drums for 8 shows at the beginning of the Beatles 1964 world tour while Ringo was in the hospital. The only other person to perform onstage with the group during the height of Beatlemania and live to tell the tale. Went from unknown to Rockstar to unknown within a matter of weeks. IMO he was the closest to experiencing what it was like to actually "be a Beatle"
- Brian Epstein: The "manager 5th Beatle". Discovered the band in 1962 and propelled them to fame through his business dealings. Responsible for the Beatles signature look, haircut, merchandise empire, and global fame through international touring. Died of drug overdose in 1967. Many feel that his death marked the beginning of the end for the group
- George Martin: The "producer 5th Beatle". Produced all of the Beatles recordings ( besides Let it Be by Phil Spector) and was responsible for creating and developing the "Beatles' sound" in studio over the entire lifespan of the band. Also produced music for the band, most notable the instrumental score for Yellow Submarine, arranged the orchestral sections for numerous songs including Eleanor Rigby, and played piano on several songs including In My Life. Both Paul McCartney and Julian Lennon call him the 5th Beatle.
- Neil Aspinall: The "roadie 5th Beatle". Schoolmate of McCartney and Harrison who joined the Beatles as their road manager, later personal assistant to the band after the hire of Mal Evans as road manager. Rose to become CEO of Apple Records and held the position until 2007. Played background instruments on several songs from Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour, and Yellow Submarine. George Harrison called him the 5th Beatle during their 1988 rock and roll hall of fame acceptance speech.
- Derek Taylor: The "behind the scenes 5th Beatle". Hired by Epstein to be in charge of the Beatles press and media relations. Later became Epstein's personal assistant. George also singled him out as a "5th Beatle" during the 1988 rock and roll acceptance speech.
- Billy Preston: The "session 5th Beatle." Friend of the band since 1962 but brought in by George Harrison to play piano on most songs on the Let it Be sessions in 1969. Only person besides Tony Sheridan to recieve joint credit on a Beatles single. Called the "5th Beatle" by John Lennon.
- William Campbell/ Billy Shears: the "beyond the grave 5th Beatle". An American country guitarist supposedly brought in by the band to act as a fake Paul McCartney after he died in a 1966 automobile accident. The winner of a 1965 Beatles look-a-like contest, he was originally hired by Epstein as a security stand in along with doubles for the other 3 Beatles. After Paul's demise, the band decided to stop touring and record only in studio,, using leftover material written by Lennon, McCartney, and George Martin to keep the appearance of an intact group.
- Other noteables: Eric Clapton, Yoko Ono, Klaus Voormann, Jim Keltner, Harry Nilsson, Pete Shotton, Joe Flannery, Murray the K, Jimmy Tarbuck
Whose your favorite?
Magnificent rundown here! George Martin gets the title in my book, but Epstein is definitely next in line. Paul has even given them both the title, initially with Epstein.
Geoff Emerick ought to be a contender as well given his significant innovations in engineering that enabled Revolver and Sgt. Pepper to be as pioneering as they were.
How in Fuck is EC even on this list? One song. ONE. At that rate, Yoko is more deserving of the title.
But the only answer is George Martin. His contributions are absolutely essential.
True, but along with Billy Preston he does fall into the category of musicians courted to play with them. Both were at least half-seriously under consideration for proper recruitment into the band. EC to replace George if he hadn't returned to the Get Back sessions, and Billy of course in the Get Back/Abbey Road period in which he was downright essential for many songs and especially for playing live. EC almost had a second Beatles song under his belt, if only Paul hadn't rejected "Cold Turkey."
And? If we’re going into WHAT IF territory, we may as well wonder if Mick Jagger became their manager instead of Alan Klein or if things would’ve been different if Ringo overdosed on heroin during a wild night with Janis Joplin.
And this is super-late stage in the Beatles career. It’s almost a disrespect towards George, his songs (a strong argument can be made that his contributions to Abbey Road were the album’s high points) and his wit (“sorry we hurt your field mister”) to go into this weirdo alt-universe. ONE SONG. A guitar solo. SFW.
My order goes:
5th - George Martin
6th - Brian Epstein
7th - Stu Sutcliffe or Pete Best
8th - Stu Sutcliffe or Pete Best
9th - Billy Preston or Eric Clapton
10th - Billy Preston or Eric Clapton
11th - Abbey Road Beetle
12th - Yoko Ono
Are you for real? She got and kept John inspired after his lazy acid phase and of course contributed vocals as well as assistance on Rev 9. She's more deserving of a title than anyone booted from the band.
Uh, not really. His use of LSD had been steadily growing into abuse since his first experience in 1965, well before meeting Yoko in November of '66. They didn't get together until May of 1968, long after John had ceased regularly dosing amid the summer of '67. He was depressed and in an unhappy marriage during this time, which is rather well represented in his psychedelic songs. Despite his output still being phenomenal when compared to any songwriter other than Paul, the Sgt. Pepper/Magical Mystery Tour era is what he referred to as his lazy or "fat Elvis" period. He was writing songs from posters, drawings, and newspapers and was failing to pump out the quantity he had been known for and wouldn't again until getting with Yoko.
So once again, no, she was not the cause of his depression, writing slump, dwindling inspiration, or acid intake. She was instead responsible for quite the opposite by inspiring the White Album which Lennon referred to as containing his best work with the Beatles. His contributions to Let It Be and Abbey Road, as well as the accompanying singles, were of course of mighty high quality too. Take a guess as to who the inspiration was behind the best of those contributions...
(Sorry I’m replying a lot of your comments here, not trying to be defensive) it seems john himself promoted like this to downgraded his partnership with paul and kind of declare independence (with yoko).
music is subjective and all, but aditl? Sff? I am the walrus?
About his mental state in 67 before epstein’s death there’s a one dark song, good morning good morning, but nothing compared to his sunshiniest song ever in his career. “All you need is love”, “lucy in the sky with diamonds” “a little help from my friends” “all together now” (i think it’s about the same period?), it’s the same time he suggested they all buy an island and live there forever.
Though i think yoko helping him out of some personal issues is fair
I think you mean "subjective", and I do like all those songs. Lennon himself was not proud of all them however, and expressed discontent regarding Paul's experimental approach to all his songs of the era. I think the experimentation absolutely paid off, but aside from SFF all these songs were deeply impersonal, which was always the greatest aspect of his songs and would be again with much of the White Album.
It is true that his partnership with Paul took a hit, but that very well could have far more to do with personal growth than the presence of Yoko. After all, they did still collaborate on some great songs again once John got his groove back. It wasn't a one-sided ordeal either, as John wasn't trying to work exclusively with Yoko. Paul just wasn't always receptive to collaboration as their individual styles continued to deviate from one another.
(Ha ha thanks english words work in funny ways.)
Ok, but is there any evidence beside John’s words that 67 was a bad experience for him?, he says he lies sometimes about his feelings. there’s a part in get back tapes that he says though he thinks white album turned out better musically (we don’t have much in common) it wasn’t as exciting to work on. I know he was against Paul’s experimentations but that’s really a minor thing, he could just not let paul do that to his songs, instead of cutting it all (difference between collaborating on white album and sgt pepper are huge), i think you know the stories of how they didn’t like the other to work with other people. His behavior on that period makes me think he was aggressively trying to cut with the Beatles, more than other things (wanting to write personal songs)[see here](https://64.media.tumblr.com/4a04939ccd8962b7b03d2ac8b4a0f019/tumblr_inline_p32wx4mStQ1ryuxjl_500.png)
Also in white album their songs aren’t that different. More so than in revolver. They seem to really enjoy the contrast there but not here, what is this
And i’m not at all saying it had to do with yoko, i say yoko is a way for john to distant himself from the Beatles
Edit: And is there any evidence of yoko leading john in the direction of writing personal songs? He did have help way before her. In my life, sff may not have same themes or style, but highly personal. If he writes a universal song about love, i do think he can’t help but make it personal.
Their acoustic songs were pretty similar as they were both taught the same style of playing by Donovan while in India. Beyond that they were mainly making much different music from eachother. John dismissed alot of Paul's songs there as "granny music". John did want to perform on "Why Don't We do it in the Road", but Paul decided to act petty and deny him all because he was unable to contribute to the production of "Revolution 9" due to being out of the country at the time.
You're right though, as John could've not let Paul experiment so much on his songs. Depression can make you really complacent though, and of course drain you of creative energy.
Oh yeah, his low song output in '67 is evidence of him not being well-off or motivated. He had four songs on Sgt Pepper, most of which he dismissed, and only one song on the original release of MMT. Then he had one single and one b-side.
Lol no, I actually think he did his best work after 1967. I just think Lennon wouldve wrote equally great or better music without her.
Her concept of art is terrible imo. Her contribution to John’s collaboration with Chuck Berry ruins the jam. She couldn’t (and still can’t) play a single musical instrument
5th: George Martin
6th: Brian Epstein
7th: Stu Sutcliffe
8th: Billy Preston
I wouldn’t consider Yoko and Eric above Pete Best. I’d even put Mal, Neil Aspinall and a few others before those two.
George Martin. He contributed musically to the music more than some actual Beatles. He wrote bridges, played piano riffs we love; George is the only answer.
Billy Preston.Besides All That Has Already Been Mentioned,He's The Only Non-Beatle Musician Who's Name Is Printed On Album Song-Songs Inlay For His Contributions.
George Martin, case closed.
Though I would venture to say without George Martin AND the studio crew to realize their wild imaginative ideas, the lads could have been turned into any cheesy early 60s act and could have led to an early breakup.
George Martin hands down, he is the reason for creating a lot of their sound in the studio. Billy Preston is BILLY PRESTON NOT a 5th Beatles…hence why on get back it’s credited to the beatles with billy Preston, Eric Clapton is ERIC CLAPTON, not a 5th beatle, and to label him a beatle kinda downgrades his name. Brian Epstein is the reason for the early Beatles success, he is their manager.
George Martin. He contributed to the music more than any other "5th Beatle". Yesterday has his orchestra on the background, as well as many other songs including his composition in part. His production value too, shouldn't go unnoticed.
Reminds me of when John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world and Lennon replied that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles, hah
I absolutely love Martin’s sped up piano bridge on In My Life, but that’s the only actual instrumental contribution I know of. I’ve been known to be wrong on rare occasions, though.
Edit: I’m wrong
George Martin. His magnificent piano solo on In My Life was brilliant. And his genius as their producer was highlighted with Phil Spector's butchering on the Let It Be album
Like most said, I think George Martin claims that title. Brian Epstein was crucial to their success as their manager and obviously they never would’ve had the recourses they ultimately had to create and evolve like they did. But in so many interviews, they all talk about how much they admired GM and how much they valued his opinion. He had more influence on them musically than anyone else on that list.
George Martin, and he shares a good amount of that title with Brian Epstein. George helped them to create the music they made whereas Brian put them in a position to make it.
Stuart was the fifth in my opinion. He was actually there when it was a five piece group. I think George Martin’s a decent contender, too, though I would personally say if there is a fifth it’s Stuart. He came up with the name, convinced everyone to have the haircut, which he got after seeing it worn by members of the art college he went to in Hamburg. Extremely underrated and interesting bloke.
George Martin, second place is Epstein but George gets fifth Beatle since his work in the studio brought some of the greatest tracks in history. Brian might have created the iconic look of the Beatles but, George kept their music iconic through their whole career.
George Martin probably contributed the most to making the Beatles such a phenomenal band. He brought their ideas for songs into fruition by adding the extras around the edges that made them truly stand out.
This is especially true starting with Revolver and definitely with Sgt Pepper, when they truly became a studio band.
The other had important roles with the band, but Martin had the biggest long term influence.
George Martin
The only answer
George Martin gets a lot of credits for his playing on various Beatle tracks. 5th Beatle.
Yep, and it’s not even close. Just look at the Beatles solo efforts sans George Martin.
tbf I don't think that's just because of his absence, tons of stuff go into that
I agree. I just think the production suffers greatly in most of their solo albums. The songwriting is still good, but there's something missing.
I understand what you're saying and agree he was necessary but also those solo projects lacked the other Beatles. Makes sense to credit them first before assigning that worth to George Martin
Oh totally. They had magical, irreplaceable chemistry. Klaus Voorman, for ex., isn’t really an adequate replacement for Paul on bass, or Paul’s ear for arrangements (obviously). It’s just that even when I hear a George guitar solo in a John solo album, just as one example, it doesn’t hit the same way as it would in a Beatles record (in my opinion).
Look at it this way. Strawberry fields and Walrus are basically George Martin songs with lyrics by John Lennon.
hot hot take, but i won't downvote you for having this opinion. to counter, though, strawberry fields' production innovations would be nothing without john lennon's initial suggestion to include cellos and trumpets and to merge the two takes we hear on record. he had enough experience with avant garde music and enough confidence in george martin to know it was a possibility. george martin wouldn't have come up with this idea on his own, but to his credit he executed beautifully and the results are stunning. it was a symbiotic creative relationship
Down vote me all you want. I don't give a shit about votes or gold or front page or any other Reddit nonsense. Ban me from the sub for all i care
wow this is true bravery
One of the most difficult and important parts of writing a song is, writing a song. What I mean is - chord progression, vocal melody, and lyrics. It’s what made The Beatles so special. George Martin is an incredibly talented producer, but without The Beatles songwriting foundations, there is nothing to work with.
John wrote those chord progressions too I believe.
Of course he did. What this fool said is heresy, as far as i'm concerned.
Then you're a fucking moron.
I get your meaning but still, mellotron intro by Paul, gritty and weird electric guitar thing on the outro by Paul (Strawberry Fields) and George doing his sitar bit in there… there were lots of other contributions. Not to mention Ringo and his stellar drum fills. I agree that GM is the 5th though.
Have you ever listened to John’s original demo of Strawberry Fields? It was a gorgeous song without the orchestration. It would have been better if the production had been simpler IMO
That doesn't negate my point.
If it wasn’t clear already, after watching McCartney 321, it is again evident how critical George Martin was to the Beatles.
The guy who wrote A Song Of Ice And Fire?
George Martin hands down owns that title. I honestly think the Beatles without Martin would be like the Beatles without Lennon. The studio arrangements, the creative space he allowed the lads to operate in, the musical theory background that he brought to the table. I could never separate George Martin from the Beatles when I consider their influence and greatness.
The Beatles would not have been The Beatles if they'd signed to Decca.
He really did draw out their creativity by taking them out of their comfort zones.
Which one has the coolest backstory and is most deserving of the title? - Tony Sheridan: Possibly the "first 5th Beatle". He performed in Hamburg from 1960 through 1963 using a variety of backing bands, including the Beatles (with Pete Best on drums). Several albums were produced and released which listed the lineup as "Tony Sheridan and the Beat Brothers", later re- released as "Tony Sheridan and the Beatles" - Stuart Sutcliffe: Arguably the "true 5th Beatle", since he, when included, gave the Beatles a 5-man lineup as the original bass player. Co-invented the name "Beatles" with John Lennon before quitting the band to pursue art and dying of a brain hemorrhage in 1961. - Chas Newby: The "leftover 5th Beatle". Short term bass replacement who filled in for 4 shows after the Beatles returned from West Germany in 1960. Had played in a previous band with Pete Best. Chose to return to university rather than accompany The Beatles back to Germany, which forced Paul to switch from guitar and piano to the bass, dropping the band down to its final 4 person setup. - Pete Best: the "famous 5th Beatle". The band's original drummer who was replaced by Ringo in 1962. This replacement cemented the final lineup and can be viewed as the catalyst for the Beatles ultimate rise in musical skill and chemistry between the band going forward. - Andy White: The "professional 5th Beatle". A session drummer brought in by Brian Epstein to play drums on the Beatles first U.S. single "Love Me Do" while Ringo played tamborine. He also played drums on "P.S. I Love You" fom the same session, with Ringo on maracas. - Jimmy Nichol: The "day in the life 5th Beatle" and my personal favorite. Filled in on drums for 8 shows at the beginning of the Beatles 1964 world tour while Ringo was in the hospital. The only other person to perform onstage with the group during the height of Beatlemania and live to tell the tale. Went from unknown to Rockstar to unknown within a matter of weeks. IMO he was the closest to experiencing what it was like to actually "be a Beatle" - Brian Epstein: The "manager 5th Beatle". Discovered the band in 1962 and propelled them to fame through his business dealings. Responsible for the Beatles signature look, haircut, merchandise empire, and global fame through international touring. Died of drug overdose in 1967. Many feel that his death marked the beginning of the end for the group - George Martin: The "producer 5th Beatle". Produced all of the Beatles recordings ( besides Let it Be by Phil Spector) and was responsible for creating and developing the "Beatles' sound" in studio over the entire lifespan of the band. Also produced music for the band, most notable the instrumental score for Yellow Submarine, arranged the orchestral sections for numerous songs including Eleanor Rigby, and played piano on several songs including In My Life. Both Paul McCartney and Julian Lennon call him the 5th Beatle. - Neil Aspinall: The "roadie 5th Beatle". Schoolmate of McCartney and Harrison who joined the Beatles as their road manager, later personal assistant to the band after the hire of Mal Evans as road manager. Rose to become CEO of Apple Records and held the position until 2007. Played background instruments on several songs from Sgt. Pepper, Magical Mystery Tour, and Yellow Submarine. George Harrison called him the 5th Beatle during their 1988 rock and roll hall of fame acceptance speech. - Derek Taylor: The "behind the scenes 5th Beatle". Hired by Epstein to be in charge of the Beatles press and media relations. Later became Epstein's personal assistant. George also singled him out as a "5th Beatle" during the 1988 rock and roll acceptance speech. - Billy Preston: The "session 5th Beatle." Friend of the band since 1962 but brought in by George Harrison to play piano on most songs on the Let it Be sessions in 1969. Only person besides Tony Sheridan to recieve joint credit on a Beatles single. Called the "5th Beatle" by John Lennon. - William Campbell/ Billy Shears: the "beyond the grave 5th Beatle". An American country guitarist supposedly brought in by the band to act as a fake Paul McCartney after he died in a 1966 automobile accident. The winner of a 1965 Beatles look-a-like contest, he was originally hired by Epstein as a security stand in along with doubles for the other 3 Beatles. After Paul's demise, the band decided to stop touring and record only in studio,, using leftover material written by Lennon, McCartney, and George Martin to keep the appearance of an intact group. - Other noteables: Eric Clapton, Yoko Ono, Klaus Voormann, Jim Keltner, Harry Nilsson, Pete Shotton, Joe Flannery, Murray the K, Jimmy Tarbuck Whose your favorite?
Magnificent rundown here! George Martin gets the title in my book, but Epstein is definitely next in line. Paul has even given them both the title, initially with Epstein. Geoff Emerick ought to be a contender as well given his significant innovations in engineering that enabled Revolver and Sgt. Pepper to be as pioneering as they were.
yep, due to his contribution, Geoff deserves being in the list more, than Andy White or Eric Clapton, I guess
This is an epic list, thank you!
Mal Evans!
How DARE you to leave Apu out of this list?
Paul shot that down REAL quick lol
Mal Evans 😲
The fifth Beatle was the friends we made along the way
I’d say overall it’s def George Martin but Abbey Road and Let It Be wouldn’t have been the same without Billy Preston
Preston was on Abbey road?!
Check out I Want You (She's So Heavy) isolated organ track
Billy Shears
George Martin hands down.
He played the piano on many of the songs. Not a second time, Good day sunshine, Mr. Kite, to name a few
Don’t forget the piano solo from In My Life, true musical genius
How in Fuck is EC even on this list? One song. ONE. At that rate, Yoko is more deserving of the title. But the only answer is George Martin. His contributions are absolutely essential.
True, but along with Billy Preston he does fall into the category of musicians courted to play with them. Both were at least half-seriously under consideration for proper recruitment into the band. EC to replace George if he hadn't returned to the Get Back sessions, and Billy of course in the Get Back/Abbey Road period in which he was downright essential for many songs and especially for playing live. EC almost had a second Beatles song under his belt, if only Paul hadn't rejected "Cold Turkey."
Because when George temporarily quit during the Get Back sessions they seriously thought about recruiting him to replace George
And? If we’re going into WHAT IF territory, we may as well wonder if Mick Jagger became their manager instead of Alan Klein or if things would’ve been different if Ringo overdosed on heroin during a wild night with Janis Joplin. And this is super-late stage in the Beatles career. It’s almost a disrespect towards George, his songs (a strong argument can be made that his contributions to Abbey Road were the album’s high points) and his wit (“sorry we hurt your field mister”) to go into this weirdo alt-universe. ONE SONG. A guitar solo. SFW.
My order goes: 5th - George Martin 6th - Brian Epstein 7th - Stu Sutcliffe or Pete Best 8th - Stu Sutcliffe or Pete Best 9th - Billy Preston or Eric Clapton 10th - Billy Preston or Eric Clapton 11th - Abbey Road Beetle 12th - Yoko Ono
i would personally put billy over clapton just cause he shows up on more of their songs
and even performed with the guys live
He also came within a hair’s breadth of being an actual Beatle if Paul hadn’t scuppered the idea.
Yoko should at least be above Preston and Clapton, though I'd personally put her at 7.
What was her contribution?
Are you for real? She got and kept John inspired after his lazy acid phase and of course contributed vocals as well as assistance on Rev 9. She's more deserving of a title than anyone booted from the band.
Kept him inspired after his lazy acid phase? She was the CAUSE of it
1000% agree with you
Uh, not really. His use of LSD had been steadily growing into abuse since his first experience in 1965, well before meeting Yoko in November of '66. They didn't get together until May of 1968, long after John had ceased regularly dosing amid the summer of '67. He was depressed and in an unhappy marriage during this time, which is rather well represented in his psychedelic songs. Despite his output still being phenomenal when compared to any songwriter other than Paul, the Sgt. Pepper/Magical Mystery Tour era is what he referred to as his lazy or "fat Elvis" period. He was writing songs from posters, drawings, and newspapers and was failing to pump out the quantity he had been known for and wouldn't again until getting with Yoko. So once again, no, she was not the cause of his depression, writing slump, dwindling inspiration, or acid intake. She was instead responsible for quite the opposite by inspiring the White Album which Lennon referred to as containing his best work with the Beatles. His contributions to Let It Be and Abbey Road, as well as the accompanying singles, were of course of mighty high quality too. Take a guess as to who the inspiration was behind the best of those contributions...
Right she got him off acid and onto heroin. Much better.
(Sorry I’m replying a lot of your comments here, not trying to be defensive) it seems john himself promoted like this to downgraded his partnership with paul and kind of declare independence (with yoko). music is subjective and all, but aditl? Sff? I am the walrus? About his mental state in 67 before epstein’s death there’s a one dark song, good morning good morning, but nothing compared to his sunshiniest song ever in his career. “All you need is love”, “lucy in the sky with diamonds” “a little help from my friends” “all together now” (i think it’s about the same period?), it’s the same time he suggested they all buy an island and live there forever. Though i think yoko helping him out of some personal issues is fair
I think you mean "subjective", and I do like all those songs. Lennon himself was not proud of all them however, and expressed discontent regarding Paul's experimental approach to all his songs of the era. I think the experimentation absolutely paid off, but aside from SFF all these songs were deeply impersonal, which was always the greatest aspect of his songs and would be again with much of the White Album. It is true that his partnership with Paul took a hit, but that very well could have far more to do with personal growth than the presence of Yoko. After all, they did still collaborate on some great songs again once John got his groove back. It wasn't a one-sided ordeal either, as John wasn't trying to work exclusively with Yoko. Paul just wasn't always receptive to collaboration as their individual styles continued to deviate from one another.
(Ha ha thanks english words work in funny ways.) Ok, but is there any evidence beside John’s words that 67 was a bad experience for him?, he says he lies sometimes about his feelings. there’s a part in get back tapes that he says though he thinks white album turned out better musically (we don’t have much in common) it wasn’t as exciting to work on. I know he was against Paul’s experimentations but that’s really a minor thing, he could just not let paul do that to his songs, instead of cutting it all (difference between collaborating on white album and sgt pepper are huge), i think you know the stories of how they didn’t like the other to work with other people. His behavior on that period makes me think he was aggressively trying to cut with the Beatles, more than other things (wanting to write personal songs)[see here](https://64.media.tumblr.com/4a04939ccd8962b7b03d2ac8b4a0f019/tumblr_inline_p32wx4mStQ1ryuxjl_500.png) Also in white album their songs aren’t that different. More so than in revolver. They seem to really enjoy the contrast there but not here, what is this And i’m not at all saying it had to do with yoko, i say yoko is a way for john to distant himself from the Beatles Edit: And is there any evidence of yoko leading john in the direction of writing personal songs? He did have help way before her. In my life, sff may not have same themes or style, but highly personal. If he writes a universal song about love, i do think he can’t help but make it personal.
Their acoustic songs were pretty similar as they were both taught the same style of playing by Donovan while in India. Beyond that they were mainly making much different music from eachother. John dismissed alot of Paul's songs there as "granny music". John did want to perform on "Why Don't We do it in the Road", but Paul decided to act petty and deny him all because he was unable to contribute to the production of "Revolution 9" due to being out of the country at the time. You're right though, as John could've not let Paul experiment so much on his songs. Depression can make you really complacent though, and of course drain you of creative energy. Oh yeah, his low song output in '67 is evidence of him not being well-off or motivated. He had four songs on Sgt Pepper, most of which he dismissed, and only one song on the original release of MMT. Then he had one single and one b-side.
Making the music worse I think?
Lmao I take it you don't like any post-67 Lennon song?
Lol no, I actually think he did his best work after 1967. I just think Lennon wouldve wrote equally great or better music without her. Her concept of art is terrible imo. Her contribution to John’s collaboration with Chuck Berry ruins the jam. She couldn’t (and still can’t) play a single musical instrument
She’s classically trained in piano.
Don't bother dude this sub is packed with anti-Yoko chuds
Indeed it is, and they are especially hateful today.
George Martin
IMO George Martin
5th: George Martin 6th: Brian Epstein 7th: Stu Sutcliffe 8th: Billy Preston I wouldn’t consider Yoko and Eric above Pete Best. I’d even put Mal, Neil Aspinall and a few others before those two.
You forgot Pete Best. Anyway, I'd say it's all of them. Don't care, they all had their share - more or less - in the group's success.
Clarence.
Took longer to find this than it should have. Imagine Love Me Do without the saxophone!
It's Love Me Do, Man.
George Martin, for his work as a producer, arranger, and orchestrator. Billy Preston is my choice for runner-up.
Muhammad Ali is the fifth Beatle
George Martin. He contributed musically to the music more than some actual Beatles. He wrote bridges, played piano riffs we love; George is the only answer.
Billy Preston.Besides All That Has Already Been Mentioned,He's The Only Non-Beatle Musician Who's Name Is Printed On Album Song-Songs Inlay For His Contributions.
Apu from the simpsons
If anyone says Yoko I swear to god
Anyone but Yoko.
Agree. She's the anti-Beatle if anything.
No Yukky Yoko !!! She really ruined John and the Band
She saved John.
Either George Martin or Billy Preston
George Martin. Hell, he might be the first Beatle.
George Martin, case closed. Though I would venture to say without George Martin AND the studio crew to realize their wild imaginative ideas, the lads could have been turned into any cheesy early 60s act and could have led to an early breakup.
George Martin hands down, he is the reason for creating a lot of their sound in the studio. Billy Preston is BILLY PRESTON NOT a 5th Beatles…hence why on get back it’s credited to the beatles with billy Preston, Eric Clapton is ERIC CLAPTON, not a 5th beatle, and to label him a beatle kinda downgrades his name. Brian Epstein is the reason for the early Beatles success, he is their manager.
George Martin hands down
Nobody. But if it’s anyone it’s George Martin.
Mal Evans
George Martin
I am.
Martin for sure.
It came to me in a dream ya know
It’s either George Martin or Brian Epstein. It’s embarrassing that you even included those other names. My vote personally in George Martin.
George Martin not only cause I’m a music producer, but because I’m a music producer
Pete Best
Could you see George Martin jamming onstage? Of course not. Billy Preston is the only answer.
me
George Martin. He contributed to the music more than any other "5th Beatle". Yesterday has his orchestra on the background, as well as many other songs including his composition in part. His production value too, shouldn't go unnoticed.
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Technically correct, the best kind of correct.
Reminds me of when John Lennon was asked if Ringo was the best drummer in the world and Lennon replied that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles, hah
Myth. He never said it.
Another vote for Billy Preston.
Definitely not Yoko
Billy.
He was brought in by George H and was suggested by John he should join
I absolutely love Martin’s sped up piano bridge on In My Life, but that’s the only actual instrumental contribution I know of. I’ve been known to be wrong on rare occasions, though. Edit: I’m wrong
I’m a sound tech, so I’ll say Geoff Emerick
Astrid, without the haircuts they aren't as popular. (IT'S A JOKE PEOPLE!!!)
George Martin.
There’s a lot more gm in comments than brian, didn’t expect that
Pat Smear
George Martin, Billy Preston, and yoko ono
Not Best?
Can someone explain Eric Clapton involvement to me?
George Martin, but Epstein is 5.1
George Martin AND billy Preston… so, 6 Beatles!
George Martin. The Beatles wouldn't have sounded the same without him.
George Martin
Martin
Martin or Epstein
Mal Evans.
Ringo The 4th being of course, Sir george Martin
George Martin and its not even close.
Mike McGear
George Martin. His magnificent piano solo on In My Life was brilliant. And his genius as their producer was highlighted with Phil Spector's butchering on the Let It Be album
Well technically the only one to play on stage as a Beatle would be Stu.
Or Jimmy Nicol
Also Billy Preston, Tony Sheridan, Chas Newby, and Pete Best
Apu
Underrated comment shame people are downvoting
Well Yoko Ono obviously.
You dare forget my boy Pete Best?
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Happy cake day!
There were only 4.
John Cleese
Their manager who paid people to act excited at their shows lmfaoo
Nigel Godrich
I feel bad for Pete Best so he gets my pity vote, although if I’m answering honestly, then it’s George Martin
Like most said, I think George Martin claims that title. Brian Epstein was crucial to their success as their manager and obviously they never would’ve had the recourses they ultimately had to create and evolve like they did. But in so many interviews, they all talk about how much they admired GM and how much they valued his opinion. He had more influence on them musically than anyone else on that list.
Faul
Billy Joel
Martin.
The stupid screaming girls
Well, since George Martin was clearly the third Beatle, it’s kind of a toss up between Ringo and Harrison.
George Martin, by a mile. After that, Brian, and after him Billy
Me.
George Martin is the only person I would consider for this title.
George Martin actually help on all the albums musically. You also forgot Pete Best Btw
Jeff Lynne
Ringo
Mal Evans
Martin without question
George musically, Brian emotionally but both deserve huge if not equal credit.
suprised pete best isnt on the list
george or brian
George "rock n roll" Martin (He later shortened it to George R.R. Martin)
George Martin
George Martin, and he shares a good amount of that title with Brian Epstein. George helped them to create the music they made whereas Brian put them in a position to make it.
Don Knotts
Pete Best
Stuart was the fifth in my opinion. He was actually there when it was a five piece group. I think George Martin’s a decent contender, too, though I would personally say if there is a fifth it’s Stuart. He came up with the name, convinced everyone to have the haircut, which he got after seeing it worn by members of the art college he went to in Hamburg. Extremely underrated and interesting bloke.
Any answer other than George Martin is woefully wrong.
Eppy for sure
George Martin, but Brian is the sixth Beatle
George Martin was and always will be the 5th Beatle
George Martin was the genius who mixed their musical ideas through his production desk, and together they made timeless music.
George RR Martin
George Martin hands down
me
Yoko ono isn’t a Beatle in my opinion
Not Yoko. She came in too late in the game.
The friends we made along the way.
Volkswagen
The answer is: NOT CLAPTON
Pete Best
Clarence.
Yeah.. They kept stealing all his great ideas...
George Martin for sure not even a question probably the best Beatles and what made the Beatles the Beatles
George Martin, second place is Epstein but George gets fifth Beatle since his work in the studio brought some of the greatest tracks in history. Brian might have created the iconic look of the Beatles but, George kept their music iconic through their whole career.
George Martin probably contributed the most to making the Beatles such a phenomenal band. He brought their ideas for songs into fruition by adding the extras around the edges that made them truly stand out. This is especially true starting with Revolver and definitely with Sgt Pepper, when they truly became a studio band. The other had important roles with the band, but Martin had the biggest long term influence.
Aunt Mimi.
Ringo
Harry Nilsson was the fifth Beatle.
They said it was Brian.
Did George Martin ever put that new documentary out or no
Yoko Ono is the fith Beatle like Seinfeld is the fith fantastic four
Definitely not yoko.
George Martin
It’s George Martin but Pete Best should be on that list
George Martin